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I am really tryting to understand where DiHinMI is coming from,
I really am.

Since I can remember, His posts have always annoyed the shit out of me because whenever I would be readig an OHIO diary that discussed
the possiblity of fraud in the 2004 election, there he would be, chastising those who posted and ridiculing the catalysts of
the discussion, from Bev Harris to Cliff Arnbeck. When it came to Bev Harris, the only word that could be described for his treatment
of her was mockery.

Read on if you don't mind yet one more meta diary

Sure, she has said some wacky things, but she is still out there gathering information, doing the "reality based" work by filing FOI requests and examining the records.

I don't know how this makes her such an evil person, but he's got a right to his opinion, it's just the amount of venom he uses against her and others that I find to be so troubling.
No one is forcing him to listen to her, so why does he care so much?
I know weeding through all that bullshit can't be easy, or even interesting.

Maybe she's made a few bucks for her troubles
but is that so wrong. Even if she were to be completely wrong about everything, I still say she does us more good than harm because she is out there getting people involved. I don't think she has the power to turn people away from the Democratic party, but I do belive she has the ability to dish out some red-meat, inflame some of the base and perhaps attract a few converts on the way, so i say God Bless her. We only hurt ourselves by tearing someone like her down in my opinion.

Since that time, I've come to know DiHinMI as the king of the META diary, the self proffessed arbiter of what should and should not be considered worthy material on Daily Kos.*

To be fair, he does possess a wider range than just writing about
Daily Kos, and I truly do believe he cares about this site.

I guess I just find him to be completely unlikeable.

That is my personal
opinion. It is not based on a five week study by a group of scientists, but it is my gut feeling towrds him/her.

There is just something about much of DiHinMIs' writing that has a holier than thou attitude to it.

I've come out and told him this myself from time to time and he usually comes back with, "Stop being such a martyr", or "Show me proof that the election was rigged, or else you do not belong to the "reality based" community." To this, I once replied, that the burden of proof is not on me, it is with the voting system. That position, DiHinMI replied in a diary was,"stupid.

 Yesterday, I wrote a post kind of calling him out and was not really prepared as his defenders came after me dilligently and in the end I kind of backed down because for one, I kind of understand where he's coming from, and two, they all just wore me down. It's exausting to do this stuff sometimes, and sometimes your best comebacks don't come until a day later ( Don't you hate when that happens?)

But today, after reading some more of DiHinMi's works, some directly involving things I've said to him/her, that In fact, it is still my belief that You, nor I, or any average citezen
should not be burdened with proving that elections are not rigged.

I just have to insist that this  responsibility lies with the voting system itself. This is speaking for me, myself personally and it has nothing to do with Dkos standard procedures of discourse. I will heartily fight for my right to feel this way.

I mean I think I know where DiHinMI is coming from, if you are coming at this thing from the perspective of using this site as a means of critical analysys only, but I have always believed this site is much more than that.

From my perspective, this site is also a place for the disenfranchised and the discontented to organize and to vent. A place for ordinary people
to raise a big stink about injustice.

The truth is, not all of us have the free time available to us to solve, all by ourselves national conspiracies against the citizenry of the USA. We are just the janitors, the salesmen, the file clerks of the world, and sites like this give us a voice.

Many of us just often feel in our gut that something is not right with
something and we come here to vent, or to organize an LTE campaign or whatnot. It has been argued to me that this approach is invalid. I completely and utterly disagree.

It is and will always be my contention that the government better damn well prove to the people that it's operating on the level. Otherwise, people like me, irrational, reactionary, mistrustful people who are suspicious of the government from the start are going to raise holy hell and they are simply going to have to deal with us, either with teargas or by changing their ways and providing us with some transparency in government.

So my point, if I have one is that I respect DiHinMI and the "reality based"
faction that he belongs to and I support that effort wholeheartedly.

It's when he crosses from that boundary into my realm, the realm of citizens who don't necessarily need absolute, total proof of wrongdoing in order to be outraged. We serve a purpose too, even if you don't understand it, or if it's not your thing. You will never make us go awya by browbeating us, so why don't you just try and find a way to co-exist with us.
Perhaps we should be called the
Anger-Based community, or the Accountability Demanding Community

Maybe if we seperate ourselves from you, then we will stop annoying you so much.
This is our creed:

We want one thing from the government and
that is transparency. If we don't get it, we are going to suspect the worst.

If Cheney holds a closed door energy meeting, I am going to
assume they are hiding something and I am going to assume the worst
possible intention. If Dick Cheney wants me to stop assuming the worst,
then he can easily stop me by proving his intentions with documentation.

I simply do not have the time or the resources to file FOI requests, or whatever it is you "reality based" people do to get to the botoom of
things. I can and do however send a letter to the editor of my newspaper
or congress people demanding accountability. I really don't think
I deserve any less.
So in short, I guess my message to DiHinMi would be that there is more than one
way to skin a cat. He can do things his way and I can do them my way.I just don't understand why he does not
believe that there is room here for everyone. This is after all a free marketplace of ideas.

*Since everytime I have called DiHinMI out on something he has demanded
specific instances where he said what I am accusing him of, I hertofore offfer
the following posts, or diaries that have been written by DiHinMI in
the recent past.
The point of this article has been to advance the
thought that perhaps DiHinMI considers himself to be too much of an authority figure around here.
To head some things off at the pass, I will say that I do not feel that I am a martyr
( as he likes to accuse people of who disagree with him of being), I do not feel censored by him,  I just feel he oversteps his bounds regarding his preaching about what should and should not be written about here.

The following posts by DiHinMI are inculuded as evidence of that fact.
I know he will like that. It's reality based.


In the reality based world,
we don't throw out theories and tell other people
to do the work of presenting evidence and argument,
we do it ourselves, preferably show our work, and
give people a means to refute our reasoning or question our evidence.


Telling people that the burden of proof is on other people
IS stupid.  
Whether the people who make such assertions are or
chose[sic] to be stupid is a separate matter.  
But claims like that are certainly stupid,
and have no place on a progressive blog.


Is Daily Kos Getting Stupid?


To which I propose the following-
-NO MORE COMMENTS ABOUT THE BASIS OF RELIGIOUS FAITH.  


But now, we've got Barbara Boxer stopping by,
and Russ Feingold, and Jim McDermott; hell,
tomorrow it could be Barack Obama, or maybe Carl Levin.  
Maybe that Maryland Madman Paul Sarbanes, or Daniel Akaka
could regale us all with stories of those wild nights in Maui.
But it makes me wonder, is Daily Kos becoming too hip?
From: Should Daily Kos Start Checking People at the Door?

Originally posted to Brian Nowhere on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:25 PM PDT.

Poll

Am I crazy, or is DiHinMI kind of preachy?

24%18 votes
63%47 votes
12%9 votes

| 74 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  I've got to drive home now (3.41)
    So I will post more later on this subject if anyone cares to respond to this. I do wish to say I am not trying to attack anyone and I am trying to follow certain rules of discourse that were outlined to me by none other that DiHinMI himself yesterday. I respect DiHinMi, but I generally like him. I just disagree with his strong stance against others within this community and hopefull we can hash it all out in this strange way.
  •  He seems like a realist to me (none)
    DIHinMI is a put-up-or-shut-up kind of Kossack.

    That's my kind of Kossack--although I wish he'd cut out the caps business.

  •  OK, here's the grand extent that... (4.00)
    ...I'm going to step in this.

    You've just posted a 2K+ word diary on how a certain poster on this site sucks.

    If that named poster then writes a diary on why you suck, should that be allowed? Or would that be over the line?

    And if he's entitled to his opinions, like you're entitled to yours, why are you calling him out on it in the first place?

    •  I think what the diarist is getting at here is (4.00)
      the tone with which DHinMI addresses people with whom he has grievances. While I don't know if it is 'diary worthy', I do think it is a valid point & it is generally why I keep my distance from DHinMI postings. Maybe we should suggest the same to the diarist - like another poster said, take it to e-mail. Personally, I don't really care what DHinMI thinks - sometimes I like his diaries, sometimes I think they're condescending & somewhat rude, but I don't feel the need to take it up with him because it really doesn't matter to me. People are peole. I like a lot of people here. I don't like others. Its called a community - we don't necessarily have to like each other, but we should at least be civil [unless of course we're having a snark fest :)].

      Like music? Check out my band: http://www.systemnoisenyc.com

      by lucid on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:36:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I certainly can understand differences of style. (4.00)
        I'm not saying this in response to this particular diarist, but in general one of the more exhausting habits of this community is that it tends to be the people most engaged in flamewars that then complain bitterly about getting burned.

        Thing is, I certainly have been aware that DHinMI has taken a number of personal attacks in the last year -- and I do mean personal attacks -- resulting from the audacity of having opinions on Ohio, etc... so the perceived nobility of either side is a bit transparent, in all of these cases.

        If the community wants flamewar-free debates, then people need to stop engaging themselves in flamewars.  Why do the rest of us have to beat our heads against our keyboards saying that time and time again? What, like Democratic/progressive strategy options are going to drop dead in their tracks if you don't get to march off the right side of the page in a deadlocked fistfight with so-and-so, who you don't even respect, over such-and-such, which you will never get them to agree on???

        Again, this has little to do with this diary or even your comment. Just needing a place to shake my head at this entire string of meta-discussions.

    •  You lied (none)
      I see you stepping into it further downthread. More than once, I might add.

      Can I write a diary declaring what a liar you are?

      •  Heck yeah! (none)
        But only if I can simultaneously be a Vichy Dem, an appeaser, a Heather, an Establishment Dem, a DLC apologist, a fratboy, and an ArmandoBot.

        And you're going to have to explain all those terms to me in your diary, because I have no idea what it is we're all supposed to be fighting about. I've been lost for a week, at least. (This is why I usually don't comment much around here...)

    •  He and you or whoever (none)
      has every right to do so. I would have no problem with that.
  •  Reality (3.83)
    sometimes requires context.

    For example, the last quote sounds like he is joking to me.

    For the rest, some were brusque, some were not. All seemed within the realm of fair play. But I have a reputation of being rather harsh myself.

    Let me tell you about dh, I have had wars with him on issues. Knockdown dragouts. Publicly and privately.

    But you judge the complete package. Not one or two things.

    Finally, this type of diary is not so cool. Me, I love diaries about me. Hell, I think all of them are about me. But not everyone thinks like that.

    The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

    by Armando on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:32:50 PM PDT

    •  I Need A Vacation (4.00)
      I find myself agreeing with Armando a lot.  This never used to happen.
    •  The Mother of One of My Best Friends... (none)
      ...died the other day.  They had a memorial service/quasi mass for her tonight, and afterward, in classic Irish wake fashion, we went to my friend's house for food and libations.  I just came home, it's almost 1:00 AM, and I have to be up at 6:15.  I check my email.  And I see I'm the subject of a 2,000 word diary, and I have to ask, why haven't I found some way to profit from the immense power I apparently have over others' thoughts and emotions.  

      People. Need. To. Get. Lives.

      Why am I attaching this to Armando's comment?  Because I didn't even bother reading this diary; I've always thought pissing matches with somebody don't deserve to take diary space away from other people, and I've called people on it long before I was the subject of one of these "DHinMI is ruining my life" missives.  But seeing Armando's comment made me scroll up to see what the last comment was, and WHAT THE FUCK, BRIAN, DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT FUCKING SATIRE IS?????  Did you read the fucking comments to that thread, where most of the people riffed on the diary, and had fun?  Don't you have a sense of humor?  Are you autistic?  

      Jeeze, I wrote an all caps BREAKING diary the other day with a ridiculous, over the top premise about dirty tricksters taking over Daily Kos, and people thought I was serious.  

      I've never been elitist about this place, but I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't benefit from a reading test that would require somebody to recognize irony before they're allowed to post here.  

      •  Interesting (none)
        how you pick one example to defend and ignore the rest. I was all set to move on from you ( and by the way, don't flatter yourself, you have absolutely no control over my life and it's kind of weird for you to suggesst I was saying that), but I was all set to move on with life, but felt I owed you the courtesy of reading some of your work.

         I acknowledged in that diary that you have a wider scope than just META king and arbiter of all that is worthy here.

        The main reason for writing what I wrote yesterday is that I came across a diary of yours where you used a quote from me in the title. You then proceeded to claim what a stupid comment it was and pretty much implied that I was stupid as well.

        Well, two can play at that game. If you bothered to read what I wrote yesterday, I think I defended my point rather well.

        IMO if you don't agree, or if you insist that there is no logic whatsoever to my POV, then it is I who thinks you obtuse.

        BTW, although most felt that that missive yesterday was not diary worthy, 63% of all respondents agreed that you are too preachy, which was my main point.

        If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. You called me out publicly with a diary of yours, so don't whine when I respond in kind.

        •  Whine? (none)
          If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. You called me out publicly with a diary of yours, so don't whine when I respond in kind.

          Whether you recognize irony or not, you at least inadvertantly practice it.  If I thought the kitchen was too hot, I wouldn't have posted the pieces I have.  And almost everyone who objects to me does so because they don't like to be challenged.  There are plenty of people around here with whom I've disagreed, quite repeatedly, but with whom I have fine relationships.  Almost everyone who gets pissy is, like you, offended that your statements would be challenged.

          It's a public place.  Don't try to discern what's wrong with somebody else for disagreeing with you before you first spend some time trying to figure out what about your argument others might find disagreeable.  Instead of spending so much time trying to figure me out, you should spend some more time trying to figure out why you felt the need to write a 2,000 word diary about me.  

          •  Well (none)
            At least you didn't call me a martytr this time.
            I am going to take some advice I got from people in this diary and steer clear of you.
            Frankly, I'm bored with you and I've said my piece.
            I think you've said yours.
            Now you can go back to browbeating innocent diarists for exercising their free speech so that you can get that warm fuzzy superior feeling going and I will go my way as well.
            I said good day, sir!
            •  OK, Then Let Me Make Up.. (none)
              ...for missed opportunities.

              You're acting like a martyr.

              And if you can't handle the heat, stay off Daily Kos.

              •  DHinMi (none)
                You annoy the hell out of me. You're loud. Argumentative. Often obnoxious. And always oh so sure you're right.

                Which is why i like you so much. Three are only maybe five of us on Dkos!

                Remember: there's no sense in talking to them. Talk to your base first, the middle second, and the amoral and lying right never.

                by cdreid on Fri Jun 24, 2005 at 07:38:06 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  And Tell Me Where I EVER... (none)
              ..."browbeat innocent diarists for exercising their free speech?"  

              I know, you can't, and the truth is less important to you than YOUR whiney complaints that I don't kiss your ass and say "oh, yeah, of course you're right."

              Funny how so many people around here bitch that the Democrats supposedly don't fight, but they whine when forced to defend their statements here at Daily Kos.

              I think you're like a lot of the other complainers; you're weak and soft, and you blame others for the fact that you can't make good arguments, and instead of accepting that the problems are your arguments, you blame those who don't kiss your ass for accepting mediocrity.

              You're a baby.  And because you keep accusing me of things that are false and refuse to provide evidence to back up your accusations about me, it's also clear you're a liar.

            •  Oh, Asshole (none)
              There are only six letters in my moniker; why should somebody have respect for you when you can't even get my six-letter user name right?
              •  I don't (none)
                have the respect for you  to bother
                spelling your name correctly. When you start respecting other POV's I'll spell it right consistently.

                You know, I know and 65% of the people who voted here know that you've browbeated people for bringing up OHIO very much in the past.
                I'm not going to bother going back into the historical record here and digging out posts because frankly I no longer find you worht the effort.

                To the contrary of your own self-superior beliefs, you are acting like a child who cannot admit wrong under any circumstance or even cop to your condescending attitude, which is well known around here. You cannot cede even a little ground because your ego is just to goddamned big.

                If you don't feel that's accurate then get on with your bad self and move on with your life. You are the one who is acting like a martyr.
                You are bad for the Democratic party. You turn people away rather than trying to understand disperate points of view. All you see to be interested in is your own narrow and frankly, shallow POV.

                I'll say this loud and clear. You are not the boss of me and you are not the boss of Dkos.
                Now for the last time. I'm done with you. You have proven to me that you are an idiot.
                That's all I need to know and I am free to feel that way. You are also free to feel the same way aboput me and you are free to say so.
                But it's obvious we are not going to agree on anything so it's time to move on.

                •  Thinking 45 Votes Out of 56,000 People... (none)
                  ...is significant shows you lack the intellectual abilities to pass sound judgement.

                  Frankly, I'm surprised that 15 months of subbing for Markos on weekends, and pissing off all the cult-like OHIO believers would only illicit 45 vote "against me."  

                  And who can't handle being wrong?  I'm just asking for proof for your claims, AND. YOU. REFUSE. TO. BACK. UP. YOUR. ACCUSATIONS.

                  You're an asshole.

                  And your learning curve has no curve; I told you the other day not to respond to who you think the person is but to respond to what they wrote.  Then you made yourself look utterly foolish by not even getting my moniker correct, and referring to me as a woman.  Apparently you're incapable of learning.  So you're not worth my time.

                    •  Hey, BTW (none)
                      I thought it was truly bizarre that you would drop something about arguing like an ex-husband in a comment to me, and then to refer to me as a woman.  And then it just dawned on me; you're probably getting email from one of my "catty" "friends."  If so, and if that's why you assumed I was a woman, you're also a dupe.  
                      •  I think (none)
                        you should change the name TNH ("The Next Hurrah") to TLW ("The Last Word") because that is obviously what you crave here. It has become obvious to me that you are one of those people

                        I don't email people here. My wife would not approve of that. I didn't know your gender, thats why I left it ambiguous with a he/she. Your gender is irrevelent, except I guess to divine which explitive should be used to describe you.

                        IMHE, You're both.

                        You also never answered my question about how you can believe that O.J Simpson is guilty, even though you have no scientific evidence to support it.

                        Where is you're proof that Bev Harris is a fraud?

                        Where is your proof that people who think OHIO was hijacked are wrong.

                        Where is your proof that I'm an asshole.

                        You are guilty of the same shit you accuse everyone else of doing.

                        You are not reality based at all. You are just a dork with a computer.

                        •  Answers (If You Can Understand Them) (none)
                          You also never answered my question about how you can believe that O.J Simpson is guilty, even though you have no scientific evidence to support it.

                          I believe it, but it's not very important to me.  But I never asked or insisted that you believe it. For that, I would need more evidence.  You apparently haven't understood the distinction between what and why somebody holds particular beliefs, and what they ask or insist be believed by others.  

                          Where is you're proof that Bev Harris is a fraud?

                          Her own statements that she would deliver "proof" of fraud in Florida, but she never released the evidence, and hid behind the fact that she was writing a book.  And despite all that, she kept asking for money.

                          Where is your proof that people who think OHIO was hijacked are wrong.

                          I've offered it in hundreds of comments around here, including some to you.  Look through my comments in November and December.

                          Where is your proof that I'm an asshole.

                          The fact that you wrote this diary, and your comments throughout.  

                          You are guilty of the same shit you accuse everyone else of doing.

                          When did I ever write about not being able to figure you out?  I once quoted an intellectually vacous comment you made where you completely reversed the burdern of proof for those asserting facts and causality.  But you weren't important enough for me to ever write a diary about.  In fact, I didn't remember it was you who made that stupid comment until you mentioned it the other day.  Beyond that, I don't know what you're accusing me of, because you're not citing or summarizing any of my supposed accusations.  

                          You are not reality based at all. You are just a dork with a computer.

                          HOW DO YOU KNOW?  Like I said, you have no ability to learn, because instead of addressing what I write, you're obsessed with trying to figure out what I'm like.  When I said I think you're an asshole, I'm referring to your behavior here, especially toward me.  You're trying to intuit what I'm like away from Daily Kos, which is largely irrelevant to what I write at Daily Kos, especially in terms of personality, character, personal life, gender, etc.

                          And where did I say you sent email?  I said you were probably getting email, which you haven't denied.  Maybe you didn't understand that grammatically simple sentence.  Or maybe you're just playing coy and trying to hide the fact that you got duped.  Neither explanation is particularly flattering of you.

                          And it's pretty funny accusing me of trying to get the last word and then asking for answers to a bunch of questions.  I'm capable of detecting the irony there.  I'm not sure the same is true of you.  

                          •  For the record (none)
                            I never sent, recieved any email regarding you whatsoever. I don't even know what the hell you're talking about with your "catty" friends reference who would contact me trying to dupe me into thinking you are a female. A conspiracy? No, not from you. It's impossible.

                            As far as I remeber, Bev Harris did deliver information from FOI requests that could be cited as proof, but in this loony world, where statistics and records can be refuted by both sides, they never went anywhere.

                            There are mountains of evidence to be pored over by OHIO and neither side of the equation has offered inconculsive proof of fraud, or the lack of it.

                            I've promnoted the idea that proof of fraud in OHIO is irrevelant. We should all be outraged because of the secrecy and stonewalling and the fact that there is no proof that it was on the level.

                            I reiterate my statement. If the government is not willing to provide a transparent system of voting, I reserve the right to reserve the worst.

                            You like to be real picky with words. IE:And where did I say you sent email?  I said you were probably getting email, which you haven't denied.

                            I mean who can stand being around you with nitpicking like that all the time? How many divorces have you been through? ( For the record. I have a happy marriege and 0 divorces)

                            That's what's so annoying. My wife's mother does that kind of shit with innocuous seeming little statements that are designed to get under the skin, like "I love that coat, it makes you look less fat" then when you bristle she says, "What, I just complimented your coat?1?"

                          •  Words Matter (none)
                            So do details.  Some call it nitpicking.  For others, if you're trying to establish facts, evidence and proof, details matter.  And it's in the details that the fraud theories collapse like a house of cards.  Maybe the fact that you think precision in language and terms is not crucial, or that you apparently think precision in langauge is often the same as trying to get under ones skin, reveals why you continue to hold on to vote tampering theories, all of which have been, in my mind, soundly refuted.  
                          •  But (none)
                            words are only a part of the equation. If I was speaking to you I could say "Nice Hat!" to you, and depending on the inflection I said it with you could understand those words to mean totally different things.

                            Same with facts, as Reagan said, they are stubborn things. That is exactly why we need transparency in government actions always. This administration is using that very fact itself to cloud the issue so that in the end it is never held accountable for anything.

                            To paraphrase the quote where the term reality based comes from, they make their own reality and while you are busy analyzing that reality as we do, they are creating new realities.

                            That's why, in addition to your approach, we also need just plain old fashioned heartfelt reactionary Rage against the machine.

                            If we got out there into the streets and just shouted, THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE" then they would have to deal with us, they'd have to prove to the outraged citizenry that they are working on the level, not the other way around.

                            One thing some factions of the right have correct is a built in mistrust of government. Of course this Administration operates in Bizarro World so they say that and do the opposite, but I agree with that sentiment. Power corrupts.

                            My point is and has been that the reality based approach is great. I can't wait till you all get your first big win. But I can't wait so long for it that i'm willing to sit on my hands waiting to see if the little strip turns blue or not ( It almost never does )

                            The protersters of VietNam, many of them were loony as shithouse rats, but collectively, they and saner factions formed a collective voice which in the end helped get us the hell out of there.

                            Results. That's what's important to me. For my kids sake. I'm no scientist and I'm not the brightest bulb in the box, but I can sure as hell flip a car or two over or storm a government buildings lawn. (I'm not advocating rioting-yet)

                            If the flag-burning amendment passes, you want to know what I'm going to do? All I can say is bring hot dogs.

                            Disparage me as you wish, but (Insert patriotic music here) It's people like me and you who will stop all this bullshit in it's tracks, but only if, and it's a big if, we can figure out how to work together.
                          •  Correction (none)
                            Reagan said, "Facts are stupid things" he was trying to quote someone else, I don't know who, who said "Facts are stubborn things" and flubbed it.
  •  This diary (none)
    really annoys me.  

    Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

    by johnny rotten on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:32:55 PM PDT

  •  first of all... (3.83)
    check my just posted diary on election reforms and the report given to the DNC. It remains an important issue.

    Second, why pick on a particular dKos poster, even if you don't like them? That's really kind of bad form. I think this crosses a line in terms of community behavior I wouldn't go. Anytime I see a particular poster's name in a header or title I cringe.

    Besides, like him or not, he has some valid points to make. Bev Harris and Wayne Madsen were and are poor advocates of reform.

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:34:25 PM PDT

    •  well... (4.00)
      She (and unfortunately many of the main DK bloggers that kos chose to manage the site) antagonize people on here on a regular basis and have shown a general contempt for people, diarists and posters--I think.

      I think they went after a few diarists in the last big post that were just innocently writing diaries. It was kind of mean -- and I thought embarrassing for those that wrote the diaries that were attacked by the "heather" gang--it was especially bad because the attack came from some of the main front page bloggers--to be called out like that--they showed what gets under "their" skin so why not this guy doing the same?

      In fact they have a diary going on right now where they are all laughing at all the people who posted diaries about durbin. they (the heathers) don't really seem to like the people on this site very much--that's what I take from that. they (the heathers) are kind of mean spirited and seem to divide the general audience and insult people--for their own pleasure. who needs that?

      it's too bad. DK has really gone down hill over the past few months. I've learned a lot here recently--I see my days going away. It's hard. I've relied on kos through the election etc. But I see the people that run it -- kind of disliking the audience. I just read and comment -- I don't post so this is more from an observation point of view.

      "I will never accept an analysis that says a leader who stands for equality and fairness and who has the courage of his convictions is doing the wrong thing."

      by CrazyDem on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:00:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it's a he (4.00)
        and I guess I disagree. Full disclosure: I, of course, post with him at TNH and I also am an ex-front pager. I never met a poster I didn't like, though I've met many I disagree with.

        See comments below. I think your broad brush characterization is inaccurate.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:04:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not laughing at the Durbin (none)
        diaries and comments. I'm spitting mad about them. Durbin's distinguished carreer was going down in flames and he tried to put the fire out. Rassmussoon just put out a poll that shows what he was up against.Do you think the story was going to change with all of the attention payed to his comments?

        June 22, 2005--A Rasmussen Reports survey found that 20% of Americans believe prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have been treated unfairly. Seven-out-of-ten adults believe the prisoners are being treated "better than they deserve" (36%) or "about right" (34%).

        The survey also found that just 14% agree with people who say that prisoner treatment at Guantanamo Bay is similar to Nazi tactics. Sixty-nine percent disagree with that comparison. This helps explain why Illinois Senator Dick Durbin apologized for making such a comparison

        dKos has gone down hill in the last few months. It's gone down because people don't put too much thought into the full ramafications of what they say and do. I've been on the brink of GBCWing this site because I see so many childish things going on.

        This diary and some of the comments in it are a great example.

        •  I can agree with you (none)
          to a point, but don't you also see that this site serves as a microcosm of the party at large. If you simply deride the reactionary opinions people have you do yourself or the party a service. By posting and sharing the information you just wrote with people, spreading the word, teaching others about political reality, you would do a much better service to all of us.
          People probably migrate here from places like Buzzflash and after a time they learn a few things through discussion.
          If you just laugh at them and hold them in contempt, everyone loses.
          •  Two things at play (none)
            here, imo. One is that there are a lot of things that come up that have been discussed ad nauseum in the past. Some of us do a poor job of understanding that a lot of people weren't here for those discussions. So we see them and immediately think, "ah fuck, not again," and jump all over the person who started the thread. I've tried not to do that and reminded others as well, but sometimes it just doesn't stop us.

            But the other thing at play is the "vichey, sellout, appeaser..." comments that come at people who try to take a different tac. Other than jjcinto the attacks don't flow so much the other way. You rarely hear one of us saying that our opponents want the party to lose or don't care if we do. We'll point out why we think it is a losing proposition.

            That second thing is what is pissing me off the most these days, as relates to our inner party squabbles. To me it just sounds too much like the assholes on the right that accuse us of hating America or wanting us to lose in Iraq and the WOT.

  •  You know I would call.... (none)
     ...this diary a waste of space if it weren't for your obvious superiority at posting your own opinion.

    Thank and the lack of the use of caps.

  •  Oh, c'mon, you know the rules: (none)
    You can only criticize Armando.  Voicing any other personal complaints is like airing dirty laundry (even if DiHinMI is a little free with the ad hominems).

    "... I love watching you work. But I've got ... my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder and Gilder to frame for it. I'm swamped." The Princess Bride

    by Rusty Pipes on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:37:52 PM PDT

  •  I am annoyed by this particular user as well... (none)
    but an entire diary bashing him/her?!  That's just wrong!
  •  Disgusting (4.00)
    This diary is obviously a poorly concealed attempt to sow dissent, rouse rabble, nurture controvery, disperse aspersions, whore for mojo, and eventually dance for nickels. It make me want to puke, frankly.

    Really, though... it's pretty lame to call a brother out like that. Plus you said that Bev Harris "does us more good than harm because she is out there getting people involved." That's uncalled for!

    I'd call bullshit, but I hate it when people say that. Instead, I will vote for A and B. You're crazy and DH is annoying. Still, no reason to be a bitch about it.

    Liberal Slugfest http://www.liberalstreetfighter.com

    by theorialives on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:40:57 PM PDT

  •  you hit it on the head ... (none)
    when you wrote: chastising those who posted and ridiculing the catalysts

    She (and unfortunately many of the main bloggers that kos chose to manage the site) antagonize people on here and have shown a general contempt for people, diarists and posters--I think.

    There are a bunch of them that do this and one day I realized they all have a blog site together. I laughed when I realized this. They probably all hang together and talk about about how no one can write as good as them and chit chat about the a**holes that they really told off that day on Kos in the comments.

    It's weird --it's like they hate the general group audience and push people away from kos. the only thing I can figure is that kos is like that too--general dislike for the community--after all he chose them and doesn't seem to mind that they insult the audience.  I do know though that she really has a huge ego around her diaries--which I find funny--and lord beware the person who she decides to get after on a particular day. kargoX, few others--mean mofos.

    "I will never accept an analysis that says a leader who stands for equality and fairness and who has the courage of his convictions is doing the wrong thing."

    by CrazyDem on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:44:44 PM PDT

  •  Umm... (none)
    Can you prove that your poll isn't rigged?

    Just kidding, bro. ;-)

    I think you should do what you think is right and not worry about what anyone else thinks, authority figure or not. That's about as big a cliche as I've ever laid, but it's true.

  •  No matter who you are (none)
    ... or who you think you are calling out any individual, however despicable, is really inapproprate for a diary and especially for a headline.

    That said, DHinMI can be rather superior or "preachy" in tone, but that's just part of his style. I find it part of the texture of the place and not at all annoying. So I guess I don't really have a proper option in your poll. The fact is that conspiracy theories that have little basis in empirical fact annoy me more than anybody's writing style.

    I believe in pessimism of the intellect and optimism of the will.

    by pHunbalanced on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:46:33 PM PDT

  •  What are you trying to do? (none)
    Convert people over to your side?  So if DHinMI tells you something is stupid, you come right back tell him why it isn't stupid.  Many people argue and disagree agreeably.  This is how you survive in th open forum arena.

    And besides as you've been told by others, bad bad form calling out people in diaries...

    Did DHinMI every write Brian Nowhere is Stupid! as a diary entry?

    "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine

    by Cathy on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:46:42 PM PDT

    •  No but (none)
      he did use a quote of mine,which was linked to my userpage, as the title of a diary of his so he could talk about how stupid of a statement it was.
      •  Hi Brian (none)
        Remember yesterday's diary?  We came to this peaceoff, I said we had a breakthrought.  But, look it's all broke again...

        You even told me that you looked at DHinMI comments and as a result, re-assessed him favorably.

        I think a lot of what is going on is not unique to Dailykos at all.  Unless they really were taking TU status away, but Kos has addressed this twice.  It's not happening according to him, and it's smelling like a canard to me, frankly; no one's rights are being curtailed here.  Proof is this diary right here.  Group discussions are like this all over the internet.  Someone is uncool, mean, too agressive and a clique is formed to complain until, until what?  What's the objective?  Now, to shutup DHinMI?...That is ironic...  

        "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine

        by Cathy on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 05:19:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  DH is part of the kos illuminati (4.00)
    and he abuses his power. He apparently thinks his point of view is correct and those who disagree are wrong, or stupid, or faith based or something.
    example:
    a poster troll rated a comment by addison. DH made a big noise calling it ratings abuse. I said maybe the troll rater is correct. DH took great offense, on addson's behalf. five minutes later my tu status was pulled.
    that's abuse of power. i got the tu status by being rated up from the rest of the community, the way scoop is supposed to work. it shouldn't have been pulled because DH doesn't like my opinion of addison.
    i only come hear to read the diaries from the community. The front pagers rarely post anything of interest to me. i'm just waiting to get banned. i don't think much of any of the illuminati around here, but especially DH.
    this site took off mostly because people like the scoop system on a political dialogue site. that's what i always liked about daily kos, community moderation, not moderation by DH and a handful of kos chums. fortunately there are lots of other liberal scoop blogs popping up.
    •  heh (none)
      Yup. There is a super secret society of dKosers. What you don't know is that they sneak into your house and write rediculous things on your computer when you're not home.

      DH, get out of warbly's house.

    •  I too have tangled with DH (4.00)
      and soon after lost my trusted user status.

      May be coincidental, who knows?

      But I do seem to find him weighing in with his extreme convential wisdom on many important threads.

      He is what I would call a radical centrist. Perhaps afflicted with a touch of what C Wright Mills calls "crackpot realism"?

      If Kos loses its lefties, it will be the worse for it.

      •  fyi and a point of order (none)
        TU status is determined by computer algorithm. No individual can remove it or restore it, not even kos.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:01:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  all i know is i had it (none)
          tangled with DH, recieved no other ratings at all, and lost it within five minutes. i guess, i don't believe that there isn't an admin function that can pull tu, but really i don't care about my tu status. it's the illuminati aspect that bothers me.
          •  what I wrote is true (none)
            your TU status change is entirely coincidental.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:09:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  If you got hit with a number of negative ratings (none)
            as a result of those arguments, that would temporarily put your TU "points" under the needed bound, but Dem is right -- there's no way to manually alter it, it's just a complicated floating average. If you were on the edge, algorithmically, it could be as simple as you getting a few bad ratings on some other post, not even related to that discussion -- in which case you can probably expect to see TU return within a few well-rated posts.

            The only ratings-related thing we can do is that if someone has been abusing their rating privileges by troll-rating people unnecessarily, we can wipe those ratings away. This happens approximately once every blue moon -- literally, maybe six times, total?, and I've never seen it done when it wasn't a very clear case of abuse.

            •  Well... (none)
              ...the same thing happened to me and I did not get hit with troll ratings.  I just happened to disagree with 'the illuminati'.

              So, it is all very well to say it is an algorithm and 'computer generated' but appearances are otherwise.

              Maybe if TU is lost, the loser should be informed of what has changed...

              Truckle the Uncivil, Nullus Anxietas Sanguinae

              by Truckle on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 06:29:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  yea same thing happened to me.. (none)
              when I disagreed with ? for expressing my opinions on an abortion thread and bamm TU gone.  I only got 1 1 and that ealier in the month on a PA senate casey/pennachio bash.  The only other thing it could have been is when Kos shortened the archive time to save database space.  Maybe something good got aged off.  Since then I've gotten a small number of 4 and a few 3 and yet TU has not come back.

              Oh well this way I can be more offensive and not worry I cannot see the hidden drek.

              We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

              by delver rootnose on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 07:01:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, but (none)
          the algorithm probably detects anybody that isn't nice to DHinMI and yanks their TU status so they can no longer ...  umm ... do all that valuable stuff that TU status lets you do,

          We all go a little mad sometimes - Norman Bates

          by badger on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:17:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  ok (none)
          whatever i think about about the front pagers here, i don't think you are all blatant liars so:
          mea culpa
          my bad, and i apologize for 64% of the nasty things i've said around here lately.
          peace.
  •  Further justification for a new feature: (none)
    We need a button, right below '[Recommend this Diary]' that says '[Torpedo this Diary]'.

    I'm only half kidding.

    -AG

    I'm a pro-gun, pro-nuclear-power Reform Democrat.
    UUJN: Brother Venerable Katana of Mindful Forgiveness

    by AlphaGeek on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:49:33 PM PDT

  •  DHinMI is a doo doo (none)
    head.
  •  DH has finally arrived! (4.00)
    Correct me if I wrong, but by my count he is among a very select group of posters (Armando has had multiple, Kos had a couple cause of Ohio and MSOC has been included in at least one) who are on the receiving end of personal attack diaries. Am I leaving anyone out?

    Anyway, I have no beef with DH--he strikes me as someone who places a high value on logic.

    Check out the pics from the most recent NYC Kossak Meetup!

    by JaneKnowles on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 03:52:19 PM PDT

  •  Well (none)
    I think a good number of people don't realize that just because this is an left-leaning site where almost anyone can post and diary, it's not okay to post whatever nonsense they can come up with no matter how outlandish as long as it backs a certain political view, then bash people as 'neo-cons' just because they call bullshit.  That's the point I think DiHinMi is trying to make.

    You see it all the time where someone brings up Professor Somebody of Some University and they have some equation that proves there was fraud in the election.  Then someone comes in and says 'well, I don't quite agree with what this guy is saying'.  Then everyone troll rates him and starts pointing out unrelated arguments that 'prove' fraud.  You can believe there was fraud, but still think most of the theories out there are full of shit.  If there is a murder and there are 20 suspects, you don't have to think all 20 people did it to know a murder was committed.

  •  The math is mind-boggling (4.00)
    55,000 registered users, each of whom can create a diary bitching about the other individual 55,000 users ... gawd.

    And then count the comments!

    The possibilities give me a headache.

    Look, every single person (okay, there are two exceptions) I've ever read here has annoyed me at some point. Annoyed me repeatedly at some point. Annoyed me for hours, days, weeks, months, years, many of them. And will continue to do so.

    My suggestion: Ignore who annoys you. It works wonders. Skip their diaries, skip over their comments. It works.

  •  Nah ... I'm with Brian ... (4.00)
    I've read a WHOLE LOTTA diaries & comments where DHinMI is busy telling other folks what to think, & what is & what isnt "progressive".

    Progressive folks like DH, Blades & Armando - who state their cases with a sub-text of "I'm right & you suck" - can be off-putting, even to folks who are nominally on the same side.

    Better the 'thugs eat their own than that we do.

    So, a little more decorum, eh gents?

  •  DH was not the only one to criticize Bev (none)
    Harris. Not by a long shot. If I remember correctly, more and more people began to turn against Harris. And I also seem to remember Harris asking people for money, and some (wasn't Randi Rhodes one of them?) later complaining that they felt like she was doing nothing with the money.
    •  Curious (none)
      What exactly has she done with the money.  I understand that she is fact finding and all that, but has she actually done anything with the facts she has found?  Or is that still going to occur at some later date?

      Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

      by johnny rotten on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:00:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bev was the straw man argument (none)
      that was overused and abused by the uppity anti-Fraudsters.

      The majority simply demanded two things.  
      1.  To know exactly what the heck happened in Ohio.  
      2.  To demand that all future elections are secure, transparent, and paper-verifiable.

    •  Count me in (none)
      and well before Ohio. Too lazy to google my earliest, so here's Dec. 3

      Bev's narrative v reality 2003

      Before Bev Harris, there was responsible, careful critique of unacountable touchscreen voting, most notably from Drs. Rebecca Mercuri and Doug Jones.

       Missing was a publicist, to take this issue from the Technical to the Political sphere, and Bev Harris jumped into the vacuum.

      Her approach, escalating the indictment from "These systems are not sound," to "The Republicans are stealing the Election," did indeed attract attention, but with a price.

      Just before this framing shift I'd presented the Wisconsin State Elections Board with the acedemic papers from Mercuri and Jones, eliciting this report from the Elections Board's Executive Director, and a unanimous vote by the Board, 4 dems, 4 GOP, and a Libertarian, to Decertify touchscreens in Wisconsin for the recent cycle.

        Shortly thereafter, I discovered Bev's site, and sent an account of the 1st in the Nation banning of unacountable electronic voting systems. Astonished that this did not make it onto the blacboxvoting site I emailed again, and left 6 messages on Bev's answering machine, with no response.

        Looking back, I assume the non-response derived from facts on the ground contradicting Bev's Republican plot narrative. How could the 4 Republicans on the Wisconsin Board have voted to decertify, if touchscreen voting was a Rove plot from the getgo?

      No-one who voted against the USAPATRIOT Act has lost an election. I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State. Or Yours.

      by ben masel on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:23:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We get mad as hell (none)
    when our Dem pols are this easily intimidated by whatever overbearing tactics they might be up against.

    "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine

    by Cathy on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:07:28 PM PDT

    •  good point (none)
      but it goes with the territory of being a front pager. if you don't have really thck skin, don't do it.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:10:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There is a much more important diary than this (none)
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/22/183230/208
    two slots above that has recieved only four comments.
    i chimed in here because i have a personal beef with DH and am glad to see he/she/it catch a little hell, but since the reform diary is being ignored in favor of this one i am unreccomending this one.
    please take a look at demfromct's diary on the ohio fraud report released by the dnc today.
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/22/183230/208
  •  Ah, the sweet smell of petty bullshit. (4.00)
    I miss high school sometimes. Thank God for dKos.

    Reigning Welterweight Female Piefighter since 1998

    by ablington on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:20:07 PM PDT

  •  Brian (none)
    When I first started here on this site I was known for asking that people not eat our own and called out those that did. You know waht those people did?

    They E-mailed me and we talked about "where I was coming from." It worked a lot better than when they called me out in comments.(pre scoop)

  •  Ohfercrissakes (4.00)
    Posting "why I don't like <fill in the blank>" diaries are the stuff of playground drama.  What's next?  A cootie-catcher directing the player to kiss the person s/he thinks is "gross"?

    This site has degenerated to a sorry state when we begin reading with increasing frequency lengthy diatribes dissing individual posters.

    For all the effort you put into composing this childish misadventure, this diary offers nothing of value but belies a lot more about you than I suspect you ever intended.  

    Deval Patrick for Governor of Massachusetts: www.devalpatrick.com

    by lightiris on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:26:11 PM PDT

    •  High School Days... (none)
      The Dailykos theme song.  Or the incestuous blogworld theme song.

      "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine

      by Cathy on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:29:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Fighting is good (4.00)
      Bad form?

      Bad form would have been if he brought his complaint forward without naming DHinMI. If he hadn't been forthright about what was getting under his skin and who it was who was doing it, that would have been worse form. It would have been dishonest.

      For my part, I didn't even have to see one word about the 2004 elections to know what this diary was about. The issue with DHinMI is a known quantity here, and I don't fault the poster for referring to the source of his frustration by name.

      How on Earth are we going to get any better if we don't criticize one another? If either DHinMI or the poster needs to check themselves, diaries like this are a good way to do that.

      When the debate about the 2004 elections were raging on this site, I was in DHinMI's camp, but I can remember well how hard he would come down on people for even so much as bringing up the issue.

      So what? Big deal. DHinMI has as much right to come down on people as this poster does. If you folks are so bothered by posts like this, freedom is only a mouse click away.

      So why did any of you post? Because you needed to tell the poster how you felt, right? That is exactly why he posted in the first place. He needed to talk to resolve the issue.

      If DKos isn't the place to talk about these things, then I really had the wrong impression about this place. I thought we were all grown-up enough to weather a little fire from each other.

      It disturbs me greatly to see all this talk about "bad form" and disrespecting the community. Mutiny? Are you ready to throw this guy overboard because he called out someone by name?

      That's what they do. We don't feed on each other, we feed off of each other. If he's wrong, tell him so, and tell him why. But don't tell him to shut up and go away.

      •  That post was meant to go in the general area (none)
        And not as a reply to that post.
      •  The Forum (none)
        The practice, and it is a good one IMO, is to  discuss these things in thread or by e-mail.

        The reason is we all have beefs and we could spend half of our lives crying foul in diaries.

        Let me come clean, I have done these myself and I should not have.

        The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

        by Armando on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:35:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (4.00)
        He needed to talk to resolve the issue.

        Well, then he should have written DH an email like a big kid and expressed his frustrations that way.

        This isn't a freakin' soap opera, is it?  

        If he's wrong, tell him so, and tell him why.

        You're kidding, right?  I'm going to talk about another poster, in this case DH, and actually engage the diarist on why he is wrong about DH?  That's preposterous and childish.  If the diarist doesn't like DH's posts, then s/he should exercise his scrolling finger and scroll right on past them.  Period.  

        But don't tell him to shut up and go away.

        Go away?  Quote me.  I dare you.  

        This is a political site that is, in theory anyway, supposed to provide a forum for people to air their opinions about Democratic issues.  That's what Kos says, anyway.  It's not a playground, it's not a prom, and it's not the Sarah Bernhardt School of Drama.  If you don't like what somebody writes, respond to the post.  Diaries complaining about an individual poster are not bad form, they're merely juvenile.  

        Deval Patrick for Governor of Massachusetts: www.devalpatrick.com

        by lightiris on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 05:23:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Cootie-catcher (4.00)
      heh.

      good one.

      The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

      by Armando on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:32:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Enough comments about this (none)
    but I cannot talk about this certain "person" this diary is about because soon after I started here (post Dean's loss in Iowa) this "person" and I got into typing some angry words.  This ended in our declaring that from now into perpetuity we would stay FAR away from each other's comments.  If I see this certain name, I leave the diary and go find a friendlier sandbox to play in.
  •  Brian... (4.00)
    ...I believe that here you are conspiring with DiHinMI to take the heat off him/her.  I further believe that you have been doing this for some time and your comments to/against him/her were pre-arranged to make gather support for DiHinMI and you would play the good cop to his bad cop.  Now you should have the burden of proving this to be not true.  I'll await your response.

    Be the creature. (But not a Republican.) blogomni

    by boran2 on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:36:50 PM PDT

  •  Ahhh, my daily soaps. (4.00)
    What would I do without them.

    we now know a lot of things, most of which, we already knew... (-dash888)

    by Tirge Caps on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 04:47:53 PM PDT

  •  Full exposure (none)
    Ben thinks he needs the exposure, but truth be told he is a leader in exposure.  Hal C.

    In Masel's case, I know him. To my knowledge, he was the first gubernatorial candidate in Wisconsin history to campaign, one day, naked. Now, that's what I call full disclosure!
    http://www.bigleftoutside.com/archives/000027.php

  •  I'm feeling left out (4.00)
    When will someone write a diary talking about how much I suck.  
  •  lot's of people (none)
    have good and bad sides.

    "I will never accept an analysis that says a leader who stands for equality and fairness and who has the courage of his convictions is doing the wrong thing."

    by CrazyDem on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 05:11:41 PM PDT

  •  Oh for chrissake (4.00)
    What is it with you people? Can we not have one day where someone isn't getting pissed on? Can we not have one day in which we all act like grown ups who realize that criticism does not equal censorship? That asking for a little thought, a little research, a little CRITICAL THINKING when talking about important issues isn't trying to shut people up? That we will disagree and that we will try to shout down those with whom we disagree because that's what you fucking do on blogs? And that that has absolutely no reflection on who you are as a human being? Because it's a damn blog!!!
  •  Oh, good. (4.00)
    Just what we need, a 400+ post diary about the raging issue of our times:  What the diarist thinks of a fairly anonymous (I mean, if you don't know that DH is a (fe)male, how well can you say you "know" him/her.)  

    Hell, I'm going to be spending some time with him/her and a bunch of other Michigan-and-environs Kossacks on Saturday evening.  If you give me emough mojo, Brian, I'll post pictures suitable for darts.

    The sword of Damocles does its work not by its fall, but because it hangs.

    by GOTV on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 05:21:02 PM PDT

  •  man am I late to the dramafest (none)
    who wants to go get a beer?

    "Plenty of rich folks want to fight. Give them the guns." -Woody Guthrie

    by The Party Plague on Wed Jun 22, 2005 at 05:22:28 PM PDT

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