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This is London has witnesses that seem to think this may have been a police "execution", although I don't think that, if he had a bomb on him, that may have been completely unjustified.
A SUSPECTED suicide bomber was shot dead on the London Underground today. Marksmen opened fire as terrified passengers were evacuated from the platform at Stockwell Tube station just after 10am.
[...]
Unconfirmed reports suggested the dead man was involved in yesterday's attacks in London.

If the suspect is confirmed to be a suicide bomber, it would mark the fifth attempted terrorist attack on Lo ndon in less than a day.
[...]
The man tripped and was also pushed to the floor and one of the officers shot him five times, said Mr Whitby, who had been sitting on the Tube train reading his paper, as it was stationary with its doors open.

From The Scotsman

Previously diaried here, but that was some time ago, and people will be waking up and getting online about now. The BBC has a timeline here that is getting rapidly updated. It seems that there is another one, possibly two, areas that have been cordoned off by police, and that dogs are present.

Originally posted to Expat Briton on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 06:55 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  God I hope he was... (none)
    Because otherwise they have another mess on their hands.  From the sounds of it, it was shoot first ask question later.

    It's the really scarry shit that is a slippery slope.  Now muslims that run from police can be shot on sight?  That will defenitly make them sit tight and wait to be incarcerated for life ( sarcasm ).

  •  Have any statements been released yet by (none)
    UK police on whether the person killed
    1. was carrying any explosives?
    2. special armed polices' reasons for considering him a terrorism suspect?

    My understanding is the person that a group of  police gang-tackled to the ground and then within seconds shot 5 times was not carrying a backpack or a satchel, but was  wearing a bulky piece of upper body clothing,which the US media strongly implied probably concealed a bomb belt .

    Question: if police suspected him of wearing a suicide belt of the highly shock and friction sensitive homemade 'Mother of Satan' TATP, frequently claimed by the US Media to be the explosive used by the other recent London bombers, would it be very smart, or protecting of  nearby subway occupants  for Police to gang-tackle and pump five bullets into the body of someone they suspected of carrying a TATP bomb-belt?

    •  That's why (2.50)
      … they shoot the fuckers in the head/heart, not generally upper body.

      London MET Police have a statement and Sky News reports that the guy was a suspect for yesterdays bombing and under surveillance.

      Comment in old diary here and here.

      •  like i said (none)

        i've got alot of respect for the london police. they've done a good job with all of this. we could use a force like that here in the usa

        "You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. Yo

        by AmericanHope on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 07:48:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  this asshole (none)

        "You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. Yo

        by AmericanHope on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:16:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What would you arrest him for? (none)
          Holding an opinion that you find abhorrent? Even without a constitutional guarantee of free speech, we don't do that. Were he to actively call for attacks, he could probably be arrested for incitement, but it doesn't sound like he's done so.
          •  "If the cause is-- (none)

            ""If the cause is still there the effect will happen again and again,""

            the effect here meaning bombings. this is about a direct an incitment to violence as you can get.

            look, im against the war in iraq. im not pleased w/the afganistan adventure even though that seems to have gotten the liberal stamp of approval.

            i am however, against assholes like this guy who incite violence against innocents.

            there is WAY WAY to much sympathy for terrorists in the various threads lately. terrorists are just another hard-right wing group that thinks violence is gonna get them power. their ideology is the same as the neocons, in many many ways.

            "You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. Yo

            by AmericanHope on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:39:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What do you consider incitement? (none)
              If I say I believe OBL's actions are reasonable, is that incitement? If I say that I believe the London bombings were indirectly caused by British involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq, is that incitement? No. It's an expression of an opinion. It may be a crappy opinion, but that's all it is.
              If this man had called on Muslims to take up arms against the British government, that would be incitement and he would legitimately be prosecuted for it. But he hasn't said that.
          •  Hate speech (none)
            In the UK you can be charged for hate speech for speaking against Islam. Why shouldn't this piece of shit be charged. I guess it is a politically correct double standard. The UK needs to get its act together on terror. The French are very upset at the UK for their non cooperation in investigations and for the UK's protection of radical terror supporting clerics wanted by France.
            •  France (none)

              i like alot of what france has done to limit extremist islam...its ironic given what the right says about france, but france is more tough on extremist islamics than the usa is.

              i have no idea why the UK intelligence community hasnt done anything.

              it is very strange and it needs to change NOW.

              "You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. Yo

              by AmericanHope on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:53:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  France (none)
                is the most effective at fighting Islamic terror. They have been doing for a while and do not fool around with political correctness.
                •  Secular (none)

                  i believe it has to do with france taking seculuarism seriously..when a bunch of radicals were forcing young girls to wear full veils to school, france barred it.

                  someday, i will learn to speak french, get more fashionable clothes, and move to paris!

                  "You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. Yo

                  by AmericanHope on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 09:08:57 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Forcing? (none)
                    And what of those who voluntarily wore the veil as part of their religion and identity. I believe in freedom of religion, not enforced lack of religion. France's actions were reprehensible.
                    •  there is no voluntary (none)

                      its not voluntary when you as the young girl face retribution from your family if you dont do what you're told

                      its crap. that women "want" to wear burquas and "like" to be second class citizens in muslim countries is bullshit. it was bullshit before 9/11 7/7 and all the rest. its bullshit now.

                      france's is cracking down on the bullshit. other western countries would be wise to take note

                      "You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. Yo

                      by AmericanHope on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:30:33 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You don't know anyone who wears a Hajib then? (none)
                        I do. She chooses to do so. I have no doubt that there are some who are forced to wear the Hajib by overbearing parents, but I have no doubt that there are others who do so voluntarily and/or proudly. You don't think it's a violation of rights to bar individuals from practicing their religion?
                        What about if the Yarmulka was banned from French schools? Would you believe that was fair? (Actually, the same piece of legislation did just that. Most Jews now go to private schools. Do you agree with the state's decision?)

                        Any time a country cracks down on people's freedom to practice their religion we should condemn it, not support it.

            •  not true (none)
              In the UK you can be charged for hate speech for speaking against Islam.

              There is a currently a controversial discussion about a FUTURE law against religious hatred, but it's not on the books.

              People quite sensibly feel uneasy about such a law, because such a thing is very hard to define and simply (and rightly, if I may say so) mocking any religious belief might fall under it.

      •  Do you have a a link that tells (none)
        where the 5 bullets struck  the suspect?

        Do  have a a link that confirms that tne suspect was carrying a concealed  explosives on his body, and where on his body? (around his upper body heart area perhaps?)

        And again, do you have link  that explains the reasoning of agents who believed the now dead suspect was carrying extremely touchy (*more touchy than nitroglycerin) concealed "Mother of Satan" TATP bomb, chose to gang-tackle and immediately shoot the suspect in the middle of a group of bystanders in a crowded subway station?  It seems very reckless/thoughtless behavior for UK agents to do such a thing if their first concern was to prevent the suspect's suspected bomb from going off in the subway.

    •  Read that there was a belt (none)
      with wires coming out of it, according to a witness. I can't comment on what the police did, but I'd hope that they knew what they were doing. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the public statements are. With a death like this, the chances of there not being an enquiry are pretty slim, so we'll get the facts eventually.
      •  Stockwell shooting (none)
        The information I gave in the summary was gleaned from the continuing BBC coverage.

        On the Stockwell shooting, see the notes from the press conference. The man who ran from the train at the Oval had joined it at Stockwell. The police have issued a picture this afternoon and almost certainly had it last night - this would have aided identification.

        There were earlier reports of police activity on the line earlier in the day and Brixton station, on the Victoria Line that goes through Stockwell, was closed earlier. A witness reported having to get the bus from Brixton to Stockwell. The "New York" logo sweatshirt was found abandoned in Brixton.

  •  Update (4.00)
    Summary update at 15:20 BST

    A man was shot dead at Stockwell Underground station on a train after being chased down from the ticket office by armed police. Different accounts of the actual shooting.

    Reports of smoke coming from a backpack left on another train that went through Stockwell just before are still to be clarified. Police have new orders to shoot to kill if a suspected suicide bomber appears to be in danger of detonating bomb.

    A Met Police press conference has been put back in view of ongoing operations. Conference is just about to start so I will come back with any further details

    An internet cafe in Harrow Road W9 (just north of Westbourne Park tube to place it) Large area sealed off and two women apparently arrested. 6 gunshots were supposed to be heard but a remote control explosives unit was also seen. These use modified shotguns to open suspicious packages.  

    The operation at East London Mosque (title as well as location, it is near Aldgate tube station) was in response to a bomb threat against the mosque. Sniffer dogs were used in the search and the all clear has been given. Other false alarms have occured, including one at Canary Wharf.

  •  London Police top notch (none)

    i think the london police are doing the best they can in the circumstances. id feel better if we had a police force like that here.

    "You will determine whether rage or reason guides the United States in the struggle to come. You will choose whether we are known for revenge or compassion. Yo

    by AmericanHope on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 07:31:59 AM PDT

  •  Identification (none)
    With the extensive CCTV coverage it is possible to follow somebody's route.

    PRESS CONFERENCE

    Photographs to be made available (subject not specified)

    Police activity related to bus and tube incidents yesterday.

    Met Police Commissioner praises police and appeals for people not to jump to conclusions. Investigation directed against criminals not any particular community.

    Confirmation shooting directly linked to anti-terrorist operation. Man challenged and refused to obey police instructions.

    Deputy Commissioner in Charge of Terrorism:

    Intelligence and evidence opportuties increased. CCTV tapes and verbal evidence gathered. CCTV images of 4 men wanted in connection with attempts to detonate devices yesterday to be issued. Public asked to give information on their current location (999 call, do not appraoch), if anyone knows identity should contact anti-terrorist branch hotline.

    Oval Underground station north bound Northern line train. Picture of man running away from train shown, believed to have travelled north from Stockwell station. Tope with "New York" on it later found in Brixton.

    CCTV picture of man on bus shown.

    Warren street bomb left on northbound Victoria line train. Picture again shown.

    Shepherds Bush Hamm and City line westbound bomb. Man shown at Westbourne Park station where he got train and ran from it at Shepherds Bush (NOTE LOCATION OF INTERNET CAFE).

    In addition to the Harrow Road site, two further houses are being investigated. Bomb partially exploded at all sites. Home made explosives but means of detonation not known.

    All information of possible relevance requested from public.

  •  SAS in the tube? (none)
    So i read the bbc timeline, and noticed an article discussing the Shoot to Kill mentality : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4707781.stm


    Professor Michael Clarke, professor of defence studies at King's College London, said the officers who carried out the operation in south London were unlikely to be police.
    ......

    "These guys may have been some sort of plain clothes special forces," he said.

    "To have bullets pumped into him like this suggests quite a lot about him and what the authorities, whoever they are, assumed about him.

    ....

    Prof Clarke said police officers were not trained to carry out operations in this way.

    "Even Special Branch and SO19 (Scotland Yard's armed unit) are not trained to do this sort of thing.

    "It's plausible that they were special forces or elements of special forces."

    If the brittish are using military troops to deal with suicide bombers, how long before the slope slides further?

    •  We don't have a prohibition against that. (none)
      IIRC, in the US the President can't deploy the military inside the country without some sort of "state of emergency" going on, and even then I'm not sure if he can do anything more than use National Guard units. In Britain we don't have that sort of control, and the army can be and is deployed inside the country to do all sorts of things, from fire fighting to police work if need be. If it were the first time, I'd be more concerned, but using the army as a police force has been done before with no ill effects. I'm not concerned if it was special forces.
  •  SO19 (none)
    SO19 have a new plain clothes unit. The BBC is also reporting that the police have orders to shoot to the head to kill in cases where imminent threat to life from a suspected bomber is believed.

    A shot to disable, as is usual, would risk innocent lives and a shot to the heart or main part of the body would risk setting off any explosives worn by the suspect. Since the head is a very difficult target (which is why the police are usually not trained in this way), it would account for the reports that a shot was heard before the man stumbled and then was killed.

    •  Eye witness (none)
      a ~40yr old white male, last name of Willoby or something similar, said several armed agents jumped on the suspect, tackled  him to the ground and shot him while they were wrapped up in a pile together on the ground. Eye witness said the whole thing was over within a few seconds. Did the official story reflect or differ from that witness account?

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