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  • First, Bush was hit Hard with Utah Front Pages.
  • Then the ARG Poll comes out showing Bush's support has collapsed like a wet taco.
  • Then over 2,000 citizens, in the reddest of states, marched on Bush.
  • The protest was led by none other then the Mayor of Salt Lake City himself - Rocky Anderson !!
  • And his tag line in his speech to the crowd - "we're not going to take it anymore!"

    ROCKY!   ROCKY!   ROCKY!   ROCKY!   ROCKY!

  • The 1st link has video of the Mayor's speech LINK

  • The 2nd link is a news radio report from the March LINK

  • In the 3rd link, the radio reporter interviews a little girl, who says that her doll is brighter than Bush. LINK

  • In the 4th link, the Mayor gives a no-quarter interview with the local hate radio robot.  The Mayor is just great in this interview - he hits Bush with the kitchen sink (quick someone e-mail this to Biden).  

    It's a little hard to listen to because its a talentless Schmuck who does the interview. LINK

  • The 5th link is video of the march LINK

  • Below -- we have: more photos, excerpts of the AP story on the March, and graphs from today's Poll
  • ARG LINK

    [As] Bush spoke...to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, while three blocks away about 2,000 people gathered to protest Bush administration policies and the war in Iraq.

    [But it was] Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson addressed both the VFW convention and the protest.

    Anderson told the crowd that people were afraid of what they had to say and they're "not going to take it anymore."

    The mayor ended his speech by saying "it's up to the people to keep speaking up and this is a turning point for our nation here today in Salt Lake City."

    ``The message we want to send is that we are behind our troops, we care very much about our troops. That if their lives are going to be put on the line, they are going to be put in harm's way, that we're told the truth and our nation hasn't been told the truth,'' Anderson said.

    Chants of ``Rocky!'' followed Anderson as he took the podium at the anti-war rally.

    ``Those who take a stand ... who stand up to deceit by our government. Those are true patriots. You are true patriots,'' Anderson said.

    Barbara Wright, 56, drove five hours from her home in St. George to attend the rally at Pioneer Park.

    "There's a lot of reasons I'm unhappy. Predominantly due to the war, but also about the economy, Social Security," Wright said.

    Her father, a World War II veteran, was unable to come with her, but she said he would have come along for the same reasons.

    "So I'm here for him too," she said.

    Several people attending the protest boasted that they were from military families or had served in the armed forces.

    Salt Lake resident Hugh Musser, 74, said he was a Korean War veteran who came to the protest because of ``the lies about this war and the reasons we went into it.''

    ``I'm so opposed to our administration. I'm not politically motivated, I'm an independent. I think we have really lost our democracy,'' Musser said.

    The featured speaker was Celeste Zappala, a co-founder of Gold Star Mothers for Peace with Cindy Sheehan, who made news camping outside Bush's Crawford, Texas, ranch in hopes of meeting with the president.

    Zappala's son, Spc. Sherwood Baker, 30, was killed in Baghdad on April 26, 2004. He was a member of the Pennsylvania National Guard which was deployed to help provide security for a survey group looking for evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, she said.

    Zappala said she was overwhelmed by the number of people who showed up at Pioneer Park.

    ``I expected and hoped that 100 people would come out. This place is overflowing with patriotic Americans,'' she said.

    She said she has traveled over the past 16 months speaking out about the war because of a promise she made at her son's funeral.

    ``My sweet and noble son was the 720th American soldier to die in the hideous miscalculation called the war in Iraq,'' Zappala said. ``I vowed to him I will not be quiet.''

    Zappala and members of her family have spent the last week in Crawford, she said, hoping the president would take time to answer one question from families who have lost loved ones in the war.

    ``What noble cause is it? What noble cause is it that has taken the lives of our best Americans? What noble cause is it this month?'' Zappala said. ``Why do the architects of this war not risk the lives of their children?''

    One of the event's organizers, Aaron Davis with a group called Veterans for Peace, said he filed a permit for a gathering of 1,000 people. Thirty minutes into the three-hour event Monday, he said he knew there would be that many and more.

    ``Not only is our message today support our troops and bring them home now, but treat them right when you bring them home,'' said Davis, who said he served as a Marine from 1972 to 1976.

    "It's like Vietnam all over again, and I opposed that too," said George Muller of Salt Lake, a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel who was dressed in desert fatigues.

    Muller, who said he served from 1961-2002, said he was pleased to see so many people at the rally, and that he believed there was a shift in the country's attitude toward the war.

    "That's what it's going to take -- veterans groups, veterans and mothers who have lost kids speaking out," Muller said. AP LINK #1 AP LINK #2


    Originally posted to Al Rodgers on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 05:24 PM PDT.

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    Comment Preferences

    •  Great job! (4.00)
      This might show Texas, Mississippi etct how to do it:)

      "It's ok to be stupid if everybody else is."-Ms. Lady Evans by Redd Kross

      by mkf on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 05:28:04 PM PDT

      •  I remember a post by Kos (none)
        in which he talked about winning the West, turning it blue.  Montana has shown that this is possible.  Colorado was certainly in play for Kerry, NM has been blue the last two elections.

        I'm not there so I can't say... but it does seem that the west is turning more progressive and less reliable for the Republicans.  Is this a safe assessment?  What do folks out west think?

        The Republican Party: Redefining Oppression for the 21st Century

        by daveriegel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 05:52:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And the Repubs primarily (none)
          have one administration, one man to thank:
          George W Bush. And they thought that Kerry winning the election would destroy the country!
        •  We live in blue Seattle... (4.00)
          but have family ties to Idaho from way, way back.  These folks are agrarian, ranchers, tied to the land, their land and they are independent as all get out.  This is where progressives can push their point, a three pronged attack targetting consensus on conservation, environmental issues and stewardhip.  More often than not what seems an anti-environmental stance is just a stubborn streak.  They were not consulted about their region, their home.  Most of the crusty old ranchers I talk with agree on protection, on comprehesive water and land use and planning, on preserving roadless areas, on protecting species.  They just hate someone else telling them what they already know and...BIG POINT HERE...they see a lot of environmental posturing as defying common sense.  We can appeal to their undying fealty to their land and sense of stewardship.  Progressives can sway lots of votes in the west on issues of reckless government spending, land use, out of state developers with no regard for traditions and of course, land and water rights.

          Energy is neither created nor destroyed; it only changes form.

          by SME in Seattle on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:17:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  reckless government spending, land use, etc. (4.00)
            and don't forget energy policy. I often visit a Dallas Cowboys message board and converse (if you can call it that) with them about their relentless support for this self-interested administration. With the exception of a few reasonable posters, I have made but small gains on getting through to their inflexible conceptions.

            However, for the last week I have been enlightening the board on and promoting the potential benefits of an aggressive renewable energy policy centered upon wind and solar power along with a biodiesel fuel initiative. The response I've received from these "dyed-in-the-wool" conservative Texans and stalwart Bush supporters has been staggering. As immune as they seem towards the travesty in Iraq, they really seemed to understand the importance of alleviating our dependence on foreign oil. They are tired of getting squeezed at the pump. They are wary of oil and energy lobbyists superceding their own voices at the political roundtable. And possibly more than anything, they just warm to the idea of something like biodiesel fuel in an independent, live-off-the-land, do-it-yourself, naturalistic way.

            I continue to believe that an aggressive energy policy that focuses on alternative, renewable resources and oil independence must become a cornerstone of the Democratic platform from here to the mid-terms to '08 and beyond. This is an issue that the GOP cannot win unless they turn their backs on their biggest corporate financiers. It caters to the sensibilities of ALL Americans as it applies to integral areas across the board: from the economy to domestic security, foreign policy and the War on Terror to the environment. If any Democratic canditates refuse to embrace this imperative progression, I would be foolish to offer them my support. We do not have to become more Republican to win elections. We simply need to show the red-staters that we are already more like them than they realize and spread the message of hope in a clear, concise manner.

            We're gonna rise from these ashes like a bird aflame...

            by August West on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:05:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I commend you! (4.00)
              For your tenacity in talking to folks you may have thought you didn't have a chance in hell to get through to. May you be an example for us all.

              I'm sure you didn't go about it by sneering at their views.

              Which, alas, is what I end up doing. I grew up there (Texas), can't stand the place, and can't stand talking to rednecks, and moved as far away as I could. Sigh. As I grow older, I am trying to learn to be nice.

              •  I go out of my way (4.00)
                to be civil to those that actually have views, preferably their own. I try to promote healthy exchanges with individuals willing to engage through my reassured intentions of informing and learning through both complementary and contradictory dialogue. I truly try to avoid using overly-divisive language and proselytizing too much. Over time, a good portion of the board has come to appreciate my fervent sincerity and begrudgingly respect my presence. It would be a bit lofty of me to claim to have swayed many or even any of their views. However, I am content knowing that I have at least compelled them to stay on top of current events and inform themselves about requisite issues in order to more effectively posit a response.

                Then there is the contingent of the board that insists upon crashing the party with their readymade talking points that they painstakingly culled from Newsmax and other valued sources. Not too far behind usually come the accompanied, predictable and always inspiring "shut-up you fuckin' commie" and other vibrant suggestions. Anyway, I confess that these lovable dimwits are fun to smack around and always worth a few good laughs. I suppose living in the progressive bastion that is Los Angeles might play a part in my need to infiltrate such hostile territory. Too much preaching to the choir possibly.

                I suppose my underlying belief and hope is that all Americans, although sometimes lost beneath conditioned layers, want the same fundamental things out of life. I try my best to embrace this idea and hope that the Democratic Party can see such potential as well. The climate is overly ripe for the introduction of a platform that transcends the ethical and cultural differences and can unite all Americans under the vision of a brighter future. Call it youthful optimism if you like, but I dearly hope that the change in the winds continues to intensify and that the tides are soon to follow. The country desperately needs imagination. Take care.

                We're gonna rise from these ashes like a bird aflame...

                by August West on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 12:36:04 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Most excellent! (none)
                  And say hello to Pearly Baker for me. ;-)

                  Seriously, I'm so glad you're doing well on the outreach.  I've tried similar things on the AOL message boards.

                •  Sorry I got here too late (none)
                  to give you a 4, but please accept my thanks. Keep up the good work, we need all the youthful optimism we can get, especially from those who are willing to do the hard work of engaging the other side, rather than just screaming back at them.

                  As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it? - William Marcy Tweed

                  by sidnora on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 05:19:36 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Thanks (none)
                    In a country founded upon embracing differences, we would be foolish not to put our own aside to help ensure our livelihood. I just hope that the visions and promises that have been fought for, bled for and sacrificed for time and time again will still be accessible enough to be within reach of my unborn children and children's children. A worthy fight and one that has been shown it can be won.

                    We're gonna rise from these ashes like a bird aflame...

                    by August West on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:51:16 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Progressive message (none)
              Keep up the proselytizing. Energy independence from these super-international corps is only part of the process. We must get away from the corporate structure itself or we will be on the losing end of this mafia of corp./ruling class/MBA's who have strangled our political system and our free-market economy.

              A different organizing structure based on co-ops is the only way to re-establish a link between the worker and the business they are involved in. Right now, we live in a dictatorship of the investor class. (They even stole our pensions with their 401k's, which I think is the whole point of privatization, theft!) And until we get back to co-ops, it was a grange system in agrarian times, we don't stand a chance of overcoming their death grip.

              •  Energy independence a bipartisan issue (none)
                There are some fairly conservative Republicans who have gotten on the energy independence/renewable fuel bandwagon.

                James Woolsey, former CIA Director, C. Boyden Gray, WH Counsel to Bush Sr., and Robert McFarlane, Reagan's National Security Adviser, are all members of the Advisory Board to a group called American Council on Renewable Energy, which `is focused on accelerating the adoption of renewable energy technologies into the mainstream of American society...'

                Woolsey has been pushing this issue for many years, and did an influential piece in the journal Foreign Affairs in 1999 with Senator Richard Lugar (R, IN).

                •  Bi-partisan issue? (none)
                  Hi- I really hate the term bi-partisan these days.
                  Aside from that, Energy conservation and getting free of dependence on oil is not bi-partisan, it is an American issue.
                  Byrnt
            •  Build your own windmill... (none)

              The Noble Cause was CHEAP OIL, and Bush FAILED!

              by mattes on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 08:03:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  The west != progressive (4.00)
            I wouldn't agree, as someone from Idaho, that the west is increasingly progressive.  (Outside of the major cities of CA, WA, and OR, it really isn't).

            It is primarily libertarian.  What's helping us is the GOP's current inexorable and swing towards the authoritarian.  The West is "conservative" only in the sense of "traditional", but they want to be left alone to do their thing.   Authoritarianism gives westerners the creeps, as well it should.

            As soon as dems start relentlessly hammering away on "The GOP wants to come into your home and tell you how to live your life", Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada will become solid blue states - particularly if we can relax about gun control just a tad*.  Honestly, we could make some inroads into Texas with that strategy, too.

            * Note: relaxing on gun control for rural areas is IMHO a good idea: they don't have the same gun violence problems as the cities anyhow.  It should be a fundamentally federalist issue:   let Los Angeles and NYC lock down gun trafficking tightly, but give the ranchers more leeway.

            I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.

            by IdahoEv on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 11:36:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Howard Dean had this one right.... (4.00)
              ...leave any further gun control to the states & cities.  What works in Utah - or Vermont - is not the same as what works for NYC.
            •  The more meth labs they get (none)
              the more gun violence they'll get.

              It is a very mixed blessing to be brought back from the dead.

              by Steven D on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 04:24:13 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  the libertarianism came (none)
              after the progressivism...somehow, they've forgotten.  they all were given FREE land for homesteading, or then later after the damns were built to run small family farms...you know the rest of the story, the west got gazillions in federal money for damns, railroads, defense...why in so short a time, have people forgotten history in their lust for personal greed?  the land rights' issue is such a JOKE if one would look at it historically...but, it's here to stay and i guess we'll have to work within the framework of what we have now...
            •  I agree 100% (none)
              as a fellow Idahoan I can attest to the libertarian bent.  People live here because there is a live and let live aspect not found in the rest of the country.  As long as what you are doing doesn't negatively impact your neighbor then you are free to do it.  

              One point that should be made is that the energy policy can have extremely detrimental effects on land owners (ranchers, et al) because the land owner does not normally own the mineral rights to the land.  So in a state like Wyoming, with large amounts of natural gas, oil, etc. the oil company that owns the mineral rights can plop an oil/natural gas well on the property without even consulting the  land owner.  This is being done, and is not going over to well.

              You are quite right on the point that the contentious relationship between ranchers & enviornmentalists is mostly due to the fact that ranchers don't like being told what to do with their land by anybody, especially "tree huggers from California".  Apparently California is like the 7th ring of hell to these people.

              Also agree on gun control.  It is a HUGE issue out here that actually brings people to the polls.  The Federalist position would be a good one.

          •  That was a book. (none)
            In one comment. Bravo.

            24"x18" poster (PDF) by NewCon06, America Stands With Cindy!

            by nuttymango on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 01:24:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Libertarianism can be progressive too... (none)
            Once libertarians start to realize what sort of nanny state today's conservative kooks are trying to impose on America they start to change their minds.

            Modern liberals = liberty, my friend.

          •  Privacy Rights too (none)
            Package the narrative as keeping Washington out of our private lives (somewhat non-specific) --we know how to make decisions for ourselves.

            There is a strong libertarian streak in the West that finds Dobson/Robertson meddling offensive.

            Also couple it with removing barriers to opportunity for all, not just the favored few, and we have a winnning message.

            "False language, evil in itself, infects the soul with evil." ----Socrates

            by Mimikatz on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 09:15:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Use UNpatriot Act too... Longish (re Blockquote). (none)
            snip] We can appeal to their undying fealty to their land and sense of stewardship.  Progressives can sway lots of votes in the west on issues of reckless government spending, land use, out of state developers with no regard for traditions and of course, land and water rights. [snip]

            We can also tell them how dangerous the UNpatriot Act is to their continued ownership of their land. There are provisions to confiscate land of anyone "suspected of terrorism." Not proven to be terrorists, just suspected. And Bush has made very crystal clear that anyone who opposed him is a terrorist and un-American to boot.

            I bet that'd go over really well with people who are totally tied to their land {snark}...


            NOTE: I hope to God I did this right. If I got the wrong provision, please let me know the right one.


            Not sure if this is exactly the provision I'm looking for, but it is pretty clear that this is intended for Americans, not foreign nationals (at least, to me, that is)... From Patriot Act, Page 40



            SEC. 316. ANTI-TERRORIST FORFEITURE PROTECTION.


            (a) RIGHT TO CONTEST.--An owner of property that is confiscated under any provision of law relating to the confiscation of assets of suspected international terrorists, may contest that
            confiscation by filing a claim in the manner set forth in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (Supplemental Rules for Certain Admiralty and Maritime Claims), and asserting as an affirmative defense that--


            (1) the property is not subject to confiscation under such provision of law; or


            (2) the innocent owner provisions of section 983(d) of title 18, United States Code, apply to the case.


            (b) EVIDENCE.--In considering a claim filed under this section, a court may admit evidence that is otherwise inadmissible under the Federal Rules of Evidence, if the court determines that the
            evidence is reliable, and that compliance with the Federal Rules of Evidence may jeopardize the national security interests of the United States.


            (c) CLARIFICATIONS.--


            (1) PROTECTION OF RIGHTS.--The exclusion of certain provisions of Federal law from the definition of the term ``civil forfeiture statute'' in section 983(i) of title 18, United States Code, shall not be construed to deny an owner of property the right to contest the confiscation of assets of suspected international terrorists under--


            (A) subsection (a) of this section;


            (B) the Constitution; or

            18 USC 983 note.

            18 USC 983 note.

            18 USC 983 note.


            : PUBL056
            115 STAT. 310 PUBLIC LAW 107-56--OCT. 26, 2001


            (C) subchapter II of chapter 5 of title 5, United States Code (commonly known as the ``Administrative Procedure Act'').


            (2) SAVINGS CLAUSE.--Nothing in this section shall limit or otherwise affect any other remedies that may be available to an owner of property under section 983 of title 18, United
            States Code, or any other provision of law.


            (d) TECHNICAL CORRECTION.--Section 983(i)(2)(D) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting ``or the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)'' before the semicolon.

            JM5CW...


            I Support the Separation of Church and Hate...
            Rev Denise Michel
            revdenisemichel@yahoo.com

            by rev denise michel on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 04:22:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  red Wyoming (none)
          will never vote for a D for president.

          But I've been surprised at the positive coverage of Cindy Sheehan in the Cheyenne and Casper papers, front page placement of the AP stories and reprints of pro-Cindy editorials

          •  There's so few people (4.00)
            all you need is, say, the people of Santa Barbara to move there and -- voila! -- 3 electoral votes.

            Visit RemoveRepublicans.com and follow every 2006 Senate race.

            by AnthonySF on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:31:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Great Idea! (none)
              Could someone make a list like that? Say how many electoral votes a red state has and how many people we could redistribute from CA or NY to make it turn blue... LOL!
              •  It is a wacky system (none)
                I live in an unincorporated township of 60,000 people. I don't even have a mayor. And Wyoming gets two senators and three reps.

                I thought we had representative government?

                I have always thought if I was a mover and shaker in a minority group I would build my center in one of the low population states.

                It works for Utah.

                •  we DO have representative government (4.00)
                  and that's why Wyoming has 2 senators just like every other state.  ONE representative, in accordance with our population (one is the minimum per state)

                  you might want to refresh your memory of our Constitutional system.

                  •  I was snarkin (none)
                    C'mon now.  It is funny that 1 out of 8 Americans is represented by 2 senators.

                    And for Wyoming I meant 3 representatives, 1 Representative and 2 Senators.

                    Don't worry the Constitution is safe. I bet back in the day the Virginians groused about RI and the Plantation Colonies getting two Senators.

                •  Sort of like national Gerrymandering, (none)
                  Yes, the small states have a disproportionate share of electoral votes simply because every state has 2 senators.  This currently benefits Republicans.

                  On the other hand, if you win the biggest states by even a tiny margin, you get all their electoral votes.  This benefits Democrats, who got the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th largest states (CA, NY, IL, PA).

                  Who knows, it could work if enough liberal boomers from deep blue states like MA decided to move to Montana or Wyoming in droves.  In the short term, I'd like to make sure we nail down Ohio first.

                  Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.

                  by Cream Puff on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 10:15:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Why think so small? (none)
                If you want to redistribute our population to turn a few states, why go after small potatoes like Wyoming? It probably wouldn't take that many more people to turn Florida or Ohio. If we turned them both, we'd win the 2008 election in a cakewalk.

                Thwarting the forces of conservatism since 1978.

                by wiscmass on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:40:43 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Too late... (none)
                the Libertarians have already co-opted this idea.  The "Free State Project" is already in full swing.
                The Free State Project is an effort to recruit 20,000 liberty-loving people to move to New Hampshire. We are looking for neighborly, productive, tolerant folks from all walks of life, of all ages, creeds, and colors who agree to the political philosophy that government exists at most to protect people's rights, and should neither provide for people nor punish them for activities that interfere with no one else.

                The objective isn't national in scope.  It's more like a states rights thing.  They figure if enough libertarians congregate in one place, they could, theoretically, create a governing body more to their liking.  
                They considered several states including both Dakotas, Montana, Idaho, Maine and others before settling for New Hampshire.  Probably because of their "Live Free or Die" state motto...

                It's still upsetting for some people to know that the hippies were the ones telling the truth about Vietnam and trying to help America. - Anonymous

                by eunichorn on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 03:33:50 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Nope (4.00)
              More than three people from California have already moved here, and they are predominately right wing conservatives, escaping the liberal west coast, high taxes and people of color. The west coast flight to the Rocky Mountain states has been one of the major reasons that states like Idaho, Utah, Montana and Colorado have become more red over the last two decades.

              It remains to be seen whether Governor Brian Schweitzer and the democratic takeover of the Montana legislature in 2004 is a real reversal of this long term conservative trend.

              Governor Brian Schweitzer on seeking the presidency; "I'm not half that smart and I'm none too pretty."

              by Ed in Montana on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 05:14:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  they already are. (none)
              californians are californicating all of the rural west, by retiring there, building mini-fiefdoms, and voting down school bonds to protect their own little pot of easy equity they gained in the calif. real estate mkt.---and btw, santa barbara is pretty conservative...
          •  Hasn't been that long (none)
            Since Sullivan (D) was Gov of WY. Probably more important than their 3 Electoral votes.

            http://www.democratsforthewest.com/

            It could be worse. msaroff could still be living in Texas.

            by George on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 04:45:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  AZ (4.00)
          Arizona is a fiercely independent, libertarian state, but despite it going red in the past few elections, it's not socially regressive at all.  I think that if we Democrats can pick up the monkier of "efficient government" (eg government performing its necessary tasks at the lowest possible cost) while emphasizing the right to privacy (the concept that there are some aspects of our lives the government has no right intruding into) I think we could make some good ground in AZ.  As we've all seen, Senator Kyl is tanking in the polls, while Pederson, his Democratic challenger, is gaining ground.  If we can appeal to that independent, libertarian streak, we could pick up some key votes in AZ.  
          •  Efficient government (none)
            How ironic that an issue like that, which used to be considered a real winner for the Republicans, has been frittered away -- by the "CEO President", no less!

            I just wish that we could get some of these libertarian Western states voting Libertarian.

            Not a Democrat. Not a Republican. Just sick of George Bush's son and other big-government "conservatives".

            by EqualOpportunityCynic on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:06:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The Problem Is... (4.00)

              ... that the "CEO President" has actually governed like a modern CEO-- if you're not an investor (big GOP donor) you don't matter, the rules only apply to those you don't like, and "ethics" are strictly a matter of PR.

              As long as the prerequisite for that shining Paradise is ignorance, bigotry, and hate... I say the Hell with it. --Inherit the Wind

              by kingubu on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:27:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You left one out (4.00)
                The total lack of personal responsibility, so that a CEO who royally fucks things up in a way that our children will call "Bushesque" can count on a Golden Parachute to ensure little loss of income continuity.

                Not a Democrat. Not a Republican. Just sick of George Bush's son and other big-government "conservatives".

                by EqualOpportunityCynic on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:35:21 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Also... (4.00)

                  ... the incessant golfing. I don't get it. I mean, I tried it-- but that damn windmill just kept fucking me up.

                  (tip your waitress.)

                  As long as the prerequisite for that shining Paradise is ignorance, bigotry, and hate... I say the Hell with it. --Inherit the Wind

                  by kingubu on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:55:02 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  When it comes to government, (4.00)
            I think that Bush is probably way "monkier" than we'll ever be.
            •  I caught that too... (none)
              that must be one of the funniest and aptest typos I've ever seen... a Freudian slip, maybe?

              "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

              by Donna in Rome on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 07:04:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Isn't AZ a Major Retirement State? (none)
            That's a population that ought to be progressive-friendly.

            Especially as pensions and health care collapse or are yanked away.

            We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

            by Gooserock on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:59:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  the west - the intermountain west - (4.00)
          has been ign... no, all caps....and in bold...IGNORED by both parties.  It is especially a slap in the face during presidential years.

          They do not campaign here - hell, they don't even bother to send us their vice-presidential candidate for a stump speech.  And they don't even play their TV ads. They do not speak to the issues that are important to us.  

          From my persective, at least, and IMVHO  ;-)....neither party could give a crap about us (I'm talking Wyoming,Utah, Idaho, and Montana).  Its an insult.

          In Utah - You go guys!!! - what I'd factor in here is a class 1-A butthead of a president who doesn't know crap about morals, has lied, and will continue to lie.  Mormons and environmentalists (even a rancher is an environmentalist) do not make for a good audience for that type of guy.

          I said in a post after the State of the Union speech back in January - he should be speaking with all the graveness of a funeral - hell by that time the war - he - had taken at least 1596 sons and daughters, and yet here he was - and here he continues - to be up there smilin' and continuing to dish out his lies.

          Bush is toast.  Plain and simple.  The mayor - Rocky - got it right "we're not going to take it anymore"...Is there a chance in hell that Utah is going to go blue?  ...well, let me just say "I wouldn't hold your breath"  A "NO" to Bush is not a YES to Democrats.

        •  ..And as they move blue and against the war (none)

          where oh where are the Democrats?????

          We must hold them accountable and responsive to the people. Do you see any of our DC leaders shoulder to shoulder with Cindy or speaking up like the Mayor of Salt Lake City (of all places!)

          Ah c'mon folks - lets get real here.  The next step is for us to turn to our so called leaders and ask when they are going to get on board.  We need to start asking some real tough questions here and don't know about you, but I am feeling less and less polite about it.

          WE-MUST-HOLD-THE-DEMOCRATS-ACCOUNTABLE-TO-THEIR-BASE-AND-TO-THE PEOPLE!!!

          Stop Looking For Leaders - WE are the Leaders!!!

          by SwimmertoFreedom04 on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 12:40:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Er...If I remember correctly (none)
        Texas is where this stuff started in earnest.  Seem to recall something about a littl camp deep in the heart of Bu$h country.

        The Christian Right is neither Witness Every Day

        by TXsharon on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 04:12:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "don't let texas mess with (none)
          (your state here)"
          copy and send all around, make bumper stickers...texas is messing right now with california's special election, trying to fund the redistricting issue.
          no one outside of texas likes to be bullied by texans...
          arnold is putting his western energy pipeline right thru utah? wyoming and nevada,in order to get around california's tough enviro laws.  
          t boone pickens is in cahoots with arnold over LNG ships and terminals way off the coast of calif.
          DON'T LET TEXAS MESS WITH CALIFORNIA!  
    •  Great layout! (none)
      I wish I was there. Hope Sacramento does something big soon too.
    •  Awesome (none)
      Thanks for the roundup, as usual.
    •  Great Post as Always (none)
      I particularly liked the job you did with "Gooper approval rating."  It looked really, really dire for only 7 points and I loved it!!
      •  Wet blanket (4.00)
        I was going to complain about that graphic, actually. I hate when graphs distort data by having high baselines. Newspapers do that all the time, and it just makes me... it... the... flames... flames... flames... on the side of my face... breathing... breathless... heaving breaths...

        Anyway, the news (for Shrub) is bad enough. He's had an appalling 90% no-matter-what approval among Republicans that defies explanation. It's nice to see the base finally cracking and reality slowly, slowly seeping in.

    •  OMG (4.00)
      This, in the reddest of red states, gives me great hope that the tipping point has truly arrived. I almost want to cry.
      Beautiful work as always, Al.

      If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything-Mark Twain

      by Desert Rose on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 05:34:31 PM PDT

    •  Thanks (none)
      I always love you post.
    •  I'm really getting tired at how people distort (none)
      I'm really getting tired at how people distort numbers.

      Randi Rhodes said on the radio 4,000.

      Compared to 2,000 that's quite a jump.

      Why do people have to inflate the numbers just to make it look bigger? If it was 2,000 , big whoop. Still better than 2 people showing up. No need to exaggerate.

      •  aoeu (4.00)
        She probably had a different report of the protest.  Estimates do vary.
      •  MSNBC (none)
        said 200.

        If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything-Mark Twain

        by Desert Rose on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 05:44:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  OK, (4.00)
          then it's safe to multiply that estimate by 10 or 20.  Fuckers.

          The Republican Party: Redefining Oppression for the 21st Century

          by daveriegel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 05:48:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  NPR said "hundreds" (none)
          anyone who was there have a better idea of how many?
          •  800-1200 (4.00)
            I was there and I estimated about 800-1200.  However, there seemed to be more people coming in as I was leaving.  2000 is possible; but not 4k.
            •  Actually... (4.00)
              .. I have a little experience with this (I'm an occasional activist and organiser).

              When it comes to demonstrations, you'll usually end up with two numbers. The number that the organisers put attendance at, and the number which the authorities (usually the police managing the protest) arrive. Inevitably, the latter number is usually smaller.

              It could be that Randi was using the organiser's number as opposed to the police/official number.

              This kind of discrepency is very common. It's not at all easy to ascertain how many people are at a given event, especially when there aren't any tickets being sold and it isn't in one easily visible geographical location (like a field; if it's spread out it's harder to count).

              Probably just using different numbers, rather than  deliberately inflating the number in order to mislead.

              The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact than a drunken man is happier than a sober one - George Bernard Shaw

              by Mephistopheles on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 06:59:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I believe that, over here, at least, (none)
                to reach the "official" numbers of participants in mega-events, they start with a "known" number, like how many standing people can fit into 1 square meter of space, and then multiply that by the area (square meters) covered by the crowd.

                "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

                by Donna in Rome on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 07:09:04 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  that's lazy shit (none)
          you could count 200 people just among those lining the streets, not even counting the bulk of the crowd that was inside the park.

          i'd put it around 1200.

          no change it was more than 2000 though.

          "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" -Yeats

          by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 11:15:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (4.00)
        Compared to how the media consistently and BLATANTLY undercounted the protestors at the 2000 inauguration and the big anti-war protests in NYC and SF in 2003, this is small potatoes.

        Of science and the human heart, there is no limit. -- Bono

        by saucy monkey on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 05:47:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  True (4.00)
          But I'd just like an accurate reporting from our side.

          There's no excuse for the media to not report how many actually do get out and protest, but there's no excuse for us to inflate our numbers either.

          If we had 2000, we had 2000. If we had 1000, we had 1000. If we had 750, we had 750. Just be honest about it is all.

          •  I always (4.00)
            give props to Howard Dean.  The times I've seen him he has eyed the crowd and made a totally accurate estimate of the size.

            First time I saw him was in Aug 2003 in Milw the night of a Packer game and I thought about 1,000 people showed up. Many, many political types would've doubled it and estimated 2,000.

            Howard came out and one of the first things he said was 'What a great turnout, there are about 800 of you here on a Sat. nite'.

            Tell it like it is.

          •  Have you ever tried to count a large crowd? (4.00)
            It's not so easy!  I tried to get an accurate count of the Voting Rights March here in Atlanta a couple weeks ago.  The AJC said 20,000 but I got twice that.  (A local television news anchor said 100,000!  I can't say for sure she was way off.)

            I can tell from the pictures that there are more than 200 people in Salt Lake City - but sheesh, patriotic liberal, unless you've got a cherry-picker handy for a great vantage point, with people milling around in an amorphous throng- it ain't easy to be on the money! I don't think anybody's trying to dupe anyone.  Howard's obviously a savant.

          •  I was in a (none)
            protest march in San Jose, CA before the war started. There was a young man standing counting all the marchers at the went by.  I was in the middle and my number was close to 1500.  The next day the local paper reported the total number as 1,000.

            Yeah right....

            GWB will pry my 20 year old son from my cold dead fingers.

            by Momagainstthedraft on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:05:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Given the location (4.00)
          this Is HUGE.  

          it's spontaneous and clearly grassroots.

          And given that this is Bush's first public appearance since Camp Casey opened, I can only presume that Bush wishes he had never entered politics at this time.

          It won't but long and the old expression "His name is Mud"..... will be "His name is Bush."  The singlemost unpopular president in American history.  

          Let's stomp the motherfucker now, what do you say?

        •  Maybe it is something (4.00)
          which was learned from the anti-Vietnam protests.
          There were protests where 250,000 would show up and the press would only report 25,000.

          Besides, lying seems to be what works in this country. Especially for the White House boobs.
          We're just learning from our "leader".

          Of course, honesty is preferred but you don't want to "misunderestimate" those numbers either.

          Freedom's Angels ~Cindy/Bunny/Sibel~

          by Skylor on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:21:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  CBS said almost 500 n/t (none)

        "A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both." --President Eisenhower

        by rhubarb on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:47:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Counting crowds (4.00)
        I understand that this protest went on for about three hours and had several speakers, including the mayor of SLC, with the featured being Celeste Zappala, a co-founder of Gold Star Mothers for Peace  with Cindy Sheehan.  Since people were coming and going it would be almost impossible to give an accurate count of the crowd.  In the video of the mayors speech, the camera panned the crowd and there were easily 500+ people visible. I've done this many times and am fairly accurate. I create a box with my thumb and forefinger, count the people in it, then pan the crowd counting the number of boxes to frame everyone. Multiply them together and it will give a fairly accurate count of the crowd.  I do this a lot at sporting events and an very accurate with the turnstile count.  Now you know what I do during the commercials when a game is televised. My fellow season ticket holders at Buffalo Sabres games are amazed how close I get.

        Truth, Justice & the American Way

        by raster44 on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:59:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's similar to the system I mentioned (none)
          a bit upthread, that public agencies (administration, police, etc.) use over here to estimate crowd sizes at mega-events. They "know" how many standing people can fit into one square meter, and then multiply that figure by the area (square meters) covered by the crowd.

          Of course, there is quite often exaggeration by reporters or officials in one or the other sense, especially if the rally is political in nature and not, for example, a free outdoor concert by Paul McCartney or Simon & Garfunkle (this year it will be Elton John) in front of the Colosseum.

          "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

          by Donna in Rome on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 07:14:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  CBS reported 'nearly 500' ;-) n/t (none)

        www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

        by chuckvw on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:36:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry for the repeat n/t (none)

          www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

          by chuckvw on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:37:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You had me scared there for a minute! (none)
            •  Actually.. (none)
              .. I have a little experience with this (I'm an occasional activist and organiser).

              When it comes to demonstrations, you'll usually end up with two numbers. The number that the organisers put attendance at, and the number which the authorities (usually the police managing the protest) arrive. Inevitably, the latter number is usually smaller.

              It could be that Randi was using the organiser's number as opposed to the police/official number.

              This kind of discrepency is very common. It's not at all easy to ascertain how many people are at a given event, especially when there aren't any tickets being sold and it isn't in one easily visible geographical location (like a field; if it's spread out it's harder to count).

              Probably just using different numbers, rather than  deliberately inflating the number in order to mislead.

              The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact than a drunken man is happier than a sober one - George Bernard Shaw

              by Mephistopheles on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 07:01:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I think I had (none)
              a transient ischemic event!

              www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

              by chuckvw on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 08:27:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  i was there (none)
        i'd say...

        easily 500, but not more than 2000.

        most likely around 1250.

        "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" -Yeats

        by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 11:12:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  LDS-owned deseret news: "more than 1000" (none)
        ...i was there and i agree.

        "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" -Yeats

        by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 11:57:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Did any one notice the Repbulican Support Graph? (4.00)
      The "Bush Job Approval Among Goopers" shows an decreasing trend with a line drawn in showing it stabilizing probably in the low 70s, but actually looking at the numbers, the decrease is not stabilizing - it is accelerating, so, from the graph, it is not clear where the bottom to Gooper job approval is!
    •  NPR also (4.00)
      covered the protest.  Gave it prominent play.

      Unfortunately, they also gave time to the 20 wingnuts chanting "support the president".  

      Who in the hell could say "support the president" now with a straight face?  

      The Republican Party: Redefining Oppression for the 21st Century

      by daveriegel on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 05:45:03 PM PDT

      •  You mean 2000 wingnuts (none)
        They have a multiplier that adjusts their Strength Points.
      •  Counterdemonstrators (4.00)
        I read the AP report and hadn't seen any mention of counterdemonstrators at all.  I guess NPR was being "fair and balanced," AP was merely covering a truly shocking news story.  A month ago who would have imagined a 2000-strong antiwar demonstration in SLC?  Show of hands?  Mine's down.
      •  prominent but misleading play (none)
        NPR only mentioned the large and completely uncontested gathering at pioneer park in passing and then went on to prominently cover a small, pointless skirmish in front of the convention center -- a spot protesters (except for a handful) studiously avoided, not wanted to be seen as protesting against the veterans of foreign wars.

        i think maybe don just needed directions. from his report it's not clear he ever even made it to the actual protest.

        "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" -Yeats

        by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 11:26:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Thank heavens for the protesters (4.00)
      Bush gave another stupid speech today, including promising "nothing less than [the] total victory over the terrorists" as his ongoing rationale for continuing to wage war in Iraq.

      Terrorists in Iraq?  Only the ones you invited, asshole.

      •  It's almost.... (4.00)
        ... Orwellian what scant regard they have for basic reality in their statements nowadays.

        Honestly, the total defeat of terrorism? What kind of crack has that man been smoking? There'll be terrorism as long as there are political disputes that can't be solved by diplomatic means and one side lacks the ability to attack or defeat the enemy conventionally.

        You can no more ultimately defeat terrorism than you can defeat protest, or religious belief, or any other voluntary activity. Terrorism is not a country, or an organisation, or an ethnic group. It's an idea, and an action.

        ...

        Quite right on your other point, too. It beggars belief that the Bush admin. can cast this war in a countenance of a war against terrorists. This was a war against a nation-state completely unconnected to the 9/11 attacks (however morally questionable its government was), and the only terrorism we've seen in Iraq is a direct result of the invasion.

        Jesus, it's as though one decided to get rid of the entire population of bees in a certain section of a wood by marching up to an area no where near it and smacking every previously calm beehive there. Unbelievable.

        The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact than a drunken man is happier than a sober one - George Bernard Shaw

        by Mephistopheles on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 07:11:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  i thinks per the polls above (none)
      sen hagel is running for president thats all
      •  Less Bush country, but not yet blue (4.00)
        I too think it's a mistake to read the signs so hopefully.  I think Utah is well captured in the red column and will be for a very long time.  They're just disenchanted with Bush, and will seek a different Republican somebody whose cognitive dissonance is not quite so profound.  

        Hagel is scoring points with that crowd by stating what's obvious.  

        Democrats should very loudly do so as well, but with even less pussyfooting.  Keep reminding everyone of the lies this administration fed us, and talk exit strategy.  Then repeat.  

        •  exposing Bush's lies = exit strategy (none)
          Whether you want to "win" the war or leave Iraq quickly, Bush's lies must be confronted. With Bush in power, it is impossible to win Iraq. The only chance to win Iraq, if even possible, is to win BIG in 2006, get a Dem speaker and Impeach Bush, Cheney, and the whole administration. The Dem speaker would be president, and we could get sane, honest military leadership in charge, instead of the insane, corrupt neocon fucktards.

          Only with sane, honest, and capable leadership can we get a viable plan to "win" in Iraq. I think if we could do the above, it would be worth reconsidering whether we could win in Iraq. We'd have to start an earnest campaign to win the hearts and minds. That's what the winning strategy was all along that Bushco made sure was impossible.

          Or, we could try to pull out. I don't know what all the answers are, but I know we can't win in Iraq with Bush and Cheney running the show.

          "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

          by bejammin075 on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:22:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Salt Lake is blue. (none)
          The rest of the state is not.

          Regardless, I'm thrilled that 2000 people managed to find time in their Monday to come out.

        •  Don't worry about Utah's votes (4.00)
          This is still a stunning development.  A reported 1000-2000 demonstrators in Utah?  What this means for the nation as a while is entirely off the map.  

          We're in a situation that I don't think anyone could have foreseen, the reactionary hold is shattering suddenly and convulsively.  The lid was clamped on too tight for too long; the outlets and alternatives too ineffective.  Now is the time to run with this wind, be part of this rising wave as far as it goes.  

          I became a left activist in the late 70s.  I've been doing it for over a quarter of a century, always in the understanding that I was fighting rear-guard battles.  There have been small victories along the way that have raised hope, given a vision of what can be.  But never before have I believed that the tide may have begun to turn.  I didn't hope that much in Crawford even as it burst into the media spotlight; but then the vigils demonstrated a workable model of nationally-coordinated local grassroots activism.     But tonight, 2000 people rallied against Bush in Salt Lake City.  Salt Lake City! A rally called by the mayor of SLC!  And now he's going out to some secluded retreat in Idaho for his event there.  He has to run and hide in Idaho!  No Dems aren't going to carry Idaho in 2008, but it's a renewed America, it's free America rising out of the silence and repression that date back to the rise of the New Right and the Reagan Revolution.  

          •  It's almost... (none)
            ... too good to be true.

            Seriously, up until the last couple of weeks ago I thought that the administration was just going through one of its poor PR cycles, and that this was hardly the death knell of the whole right-wing neocon agenda.

            More recently though, the way everything has been adding up... There's a palpable feeling that people have just had enough; that time has come for a change. I think we've reached that tipping point. It's hard to believe, but it really does seem that the whole administration is collapsing around Bush's feet.

            I can't wait for this decade to be out. Once we've put a little distance between ourselves and Bush time-wise, the reality of these last few years will begin to sink in. The reality of the Bush Doctrine, of Iraq, of every disgusting thing this administration has done. There will be a sense of objective historical appraisal.

            And for every Bush-voting idiot who tries later to recant, to distance himself from the utter failure of this administration, we'll be there to point out that we TRIED to tell them - we TRIED to stop it. That we tried to prick the bubble of feel-good, don't-ask-no-questions imbecilic support.
            That they just didn't want to know.

            Oh, it shall be so sweet.

            The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact than a drunken man is happier than a sober one - George Bernard Shaw

            by Mephistopheles on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 07:20:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I hope people don't just blindly praise Hagel (4.00)
        Hagel is just a smarter rat. He can talk tough to Bush, because Hagel is even closer to the voting machines than Bush is. He's just positioning himself, in my opinion. Just because he's saying what we want to hear doesn't mean he's saying it for the same reasons we would. These days, the Senate just gets harder and harder to trust. I'd have to assume, until proven otherwise, that Hagel would also be a hawk if he were the president.

        "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

        by bejammin075 on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:16:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The black protester sign is pretty funny (4.00)
      I love bush and I don't mean George.

      "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by sgilman on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:02:44 PM PDT

    •  keep the faith! It's breaking our way! (4.00)
      BREAKiNG Newz fLaSh!! The imposture at SLC is a DOUBLE! The true "BiKe BoY" ESCAPES from handLers at PiG Ranch!  Spotted peddling down Prairie Chapel Road! ...(with napsack full of pretzels and copy of "My Pet Goat"!)

      ExcLusive PhoTo!!
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Unless our conception of patriotism is progressive, it cannot hope to embody the real affection and the real interest of the nation. ---Jane Addams

      by Orj ozeppi on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:11:45 PM PDT

    •  Thanks for this GREAT diary! (none)
      Hope is once again emerging amongst us "liburals", rescuing our dis-illusioned and discouraged.  Thanks for contributing to this much-needed process.

      "How smooth must be the language of the whites, when they can make right look like wrong, and wrong like right." Black Hawk

      by Gabriele Droz on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:13:58 PM PDT

    •  SOMEONE FRONT PAGE THIS NOW. (none)

      "You think you can intimidate me? Screw you. Choose your Weapon." Eliot Spitzer

      by bonddad on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:14:20 PM PDT

      •  I'd like to see it front-paged (none)
        Can't think of a reason not to, but then I'm not Kos or a front-pager. This is very cheering to me, anyway.

        War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus. - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

        by Margot on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:44:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I can't wait until DC (4.00)
      September 24-26

      With a big ol' lie And a flag and a pie And a mom and a bible Most folks are just liable To buy any line Any place, any time ~ FZ

      by f furney on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:14:49 PM PDT

    •  I love it (4.00)
      But stop chopping the bar graphs at the bottom...they are meaningless that way...

      the line graphs are fine that way

      •  I second that comment (none)
        Another technical point:  the interpolation lines are misleading because your eyes tend to extrapolate the last point.  Also, the curve on the "Bush Job Approval Among Goopers" chart is false (see brandido).  Extrapolating anything from three points doesn't do any good.  

        The papers sometimes do this too, not that they provide an example that we should be following.  There's no need to overhype the information.  It's good enough news as it is.  

        Other than that, thanks to Mr. Rogers to compiling this; it's a breath of fresh air.  

        Just because we can, that doesn't mean we should.

        by Simplify on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 09:04:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Mayor's Email (4.00)
      mayor@slcgov.com

      Please: send this guy emails of support.

      "You think you can intimidate me? Screw you. Choose your Weapon." Eliot Spitzer

      by bonddad on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:18:59 PM PDT

    •  HOLY SHIT! (4.00)
      I am so deliriously happy I think I am having an organism!  Yeah, Baby!  Even Utah can't stand this shit anymore.

      There may be hope for humankind after all.

      "It's been headed this way since the World began, when a vicious creature made the jump from Monkey to Man."--Elvis Costello

      by BigOkie on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:21:01 PM PDT

    •  Ding dong the witch is dead (none)
      Which old witch?

      The WICKED witch !!!!

    •  Armando's diary of yesterday (none)
      proves that he is prescient.  His point was, the reason to vote against Republicans is that they support Bush.

      I don't think it's political opportunism, but rather brilliant strategy.  Some people argue that you need a grand plan, in addition to opposition to Bush.  Not anymore.

      This day, in blood Red Utah, Bush has met his Waterloo.

      Rocky Rocky Rocky Rocky.........

    •  Rocky Anderson (none)
      should run for Senate in '08 after he leaves the mayorship.  (I think that's when Bennett is up.)

      Visit RemoveRepublicans.com and follow every 2006 Senate race.

      by AnthonySF on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:32:11 PM PDT

      •  Hatch is up for reelection (none)
        in 2006.

        Rocky should run NOW.

        Resist much, obey little. ~~Edward Abbey, via Walt Whitman

        by willyr on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 11:33:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  wet blanket (none)
        before rocky became mayor he lost a congressional race by 10 points, in a district that included most of the few liberal areas in the state, in an open seat race against a weak opponent who only lasted one term, and where the incumbent republican had bowed out in a fundraising scandal, and in a year when democrats gained seats nationwide.

        when you're a former ACLU lawyer and a jack mormon, Mayor of Salt Lake is as far as you can go in utah politics at present. :^)

        "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" -Yeats

        by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 11:46:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  asdf... (none)
      were there any "patriotic counter-protests" in SLC while this was going on?
      •  a very small handful... (none)
        but get this...

        when i watched coverage of bush's visit on the KSL evenning news, they went immediately from the bush speech to a canned report on the anti-cindy caravan, with no mention of the anti-bush rally whatsoever!

        "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" -Yeats

        by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 11:50:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Rocky Anderson (4.00)
      This is the guy who endorsed Dean, even after Iowa and New Hampshire when it was clearly no longer opportune. Awesome dude methinks.

      If you cannot convince them, confuse them. Harry S. Truman

      by brainwave on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:43:28 PM PDT

      •  absolutely (4.00)
        As a former Utahn, I can say that Rocky is the real deal. He embodies the kind of local leadership that the grassroots needs now. We definitely need more like him in the West.

        This was a great day. A great day indeed.

      •  the beautiful part is... (none)
        ...he spoke at the VFW convention along side bush, and then headed straight over to the park to speak to the protesters.

        rocky is what you might call "unabashed."

        "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" -Yeats

        by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 11:53:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  What a HOOT! (none)
      And his tag line in his speech to the crowd - "we're not going to take it anymore!"

      ROCKY!   ROCKY!   ROCKY!   ROCKY!   ROCKY!

      YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

      Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

      by ilona on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:44:53 PM PDT

    •  That's not hell breaking loose (4.00)
      That's heaven breaking through in Utah. Truth!
    •  If we could have speakers like this mayor (none)
      pre-emptively give anti-Bush speaches, whereever bush thinks he can speak. it would be great. it would totally undercut bush's speeches, because Bush never addresses anything specifically, like the Downing Street Memos.

      "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

      by bejammin075 on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:54:11 PM PDT

    •  Great diary! (4.00)
      Thanks for posting this. It made my night.

      Its positive, no matter how much some of us might spin that it isn't that important. It is.

      This country has been too quiet for too long. We were screaming here at kos and on blogs prior to the election, but NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE LISTENED!

      Bush has to be exposed as the liar he is. The people need to believe it. Then -- and only then -- can people start to understand that they cannot give any President carte blanche to do what he wants. I can only hope we learn from this and people will be more careful when they throw in with the next guy. (am I being optimistic here?)

      Problem is, he's got three more years. We can only hope he becomes worthless politically, some of his lying cronies are put up on charges, and we can somehow hold on until we get a new Administration.

      Democracy DEPENDS on us speaking up. This is great news and I pray Rocky was right and this is the turning point.
       

      "Getting on with my life means a life without my dear, sweet boy. I wish a little bike ride could help me get on with my life." Cindy Sheehan

      by Dunbar on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:54:20 PM PDT

    •  I (4.00)
      recommend listening to the 4th link. It is a very indepth interview with Mayour Rocky, who I am now very, very impressed with. Th eOP's comment about the interviewer is right (he is a talentless shmcuk)... but the Mayor will impress you with confident, focused, well paced, concise staements of the issues. Fantastic! It's a must listen. this guy is impressive. Where did he come from?

      Beware of some occasional idiotic techie's mouse pings.... in the awkward interuptions of the host wo felt he had to put his one cent in here and there. I wishe dhe just shut up and and let the mayor speek...although I have to say he let the mayor go one in uniterrupted stretches so he could give clear explanations of his points.

      So again LISTEN to the 4TH LINK.

      •  You're right (4.00)
        I couldn't get the link to work before, but read your post and tried again.

        Rocky is my new hero. That interview was amazing and he spoke my mind completely. His main point is that people need to speak out, that we've been quiet for too long.

        That interviewer galled me, though. Jeez, people like him are really in denial.

        Rocky's other GREAT point was the complicity of the media! Right on!

        "Getting on with my life means a life without my dear, sweet boy. I wish a little bike ride could help me get on with my life." Cindy Sheehan

        by Dunbar on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:21:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  4th link highly recommended (4.00)
        I certainly hope Rocky has ambitions for higher office.  
      •  Great interview, but (none)
        I disagree - the rightwing interview is not talentless.  He was smooth, congenial, and persistent, and he had all the talking points memorized.  A lesser man than Rocky would have been derailed or even routed.

        It is always an error to underestimate one's foes

    •  Amazing (4.00)
      But be prepared for this:

      <Freeper>

      "Polls don't matter.  Bush isn't running in the next election."

      </Freeper>

      You, to Freeper: "Bush made 2000 into a referendum on the Clinton presidency.  Was Clinton running?  Did Bush win?"

      This country is having a mass awakening.  I fear it may be too late, but fuck it.  I'll bang every pot and pan I can get my hands on.  Smelling salt for the lot of 'em.

      "The American people will trust the Democratic Party to defend America when they believe that Democrats will defend other Democrats." Wesley Clark

      by The Termite on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 06:59:13 PM PDT

    •  oh $hit (none)
      OMFG. OMFG. In Utah?
    •  Yawn. (none)

       C'mon, what do you expect in Utah!  No story here, move along.

       BenGoshi
      ___________________

      . . . religion is not a syllogism, but a poem. H.L. Mencken

      by BenGoshi on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:14:35 PM PDT

    •  I love the smell of democracy in the morning! (4.00)
      asdf

      "The chain reaction of evil-wars producing more wars- must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation." MLK

      by cato on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:17:45 PM PDT

    •  Run georgie Run (none)
      Run georgie Run...Talk to Cindy about the downey street memos..
    •  Could it be (none)
      that people all over America are finally waking up and smelling the vile deceit, the greed, the naked lust for power, the complete lack of decency and morals?

      Could it be???

      "If any question why we died, tell them because our fathers lied." -- "Epitaphs of the War" Rudyard Kipling

      by MamaBear on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 07:44:55 PM PDT

    •  Wow great diary (none)
      Thanks a lot for all those great clips. Must have been a blast!

      Keep the Faith

    •  Great diary, Al (none)
      Thank you!  And, it isn't even Sunday! :)

      I love your descriptions:
      "Bush's support has collapsed like a wet taco."

      And, this one from the little girl:
      ...her doll is brighter than Bush.

      Bwaaaaaaaahahahaaaaaa!

      I'm curious to see what number the papers report tomorrow.

      Ken Salazar (D-CO), who said he'll vote for the Flag Desecration Amendment, needs to hear from us.

      by OLinda on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:24:19 PM PDT

      •  correction (4.00)
        Still a great job, Al, but in the interest of accuracy - - just listened to the mp3 about the little girl quote.  It was the on air reporter who says he even saw a little girl with a sign that said "My doll could be a better president than Bush."

        --
        He says 600 - 700 at the beginning, but at he ends the report with this:

        "Two Bush supporters in the crowd of about 700."

        bwaaaaaaaaahahaaaaaaa!

        You know, I wonder if some of the number discrepancies could depend on when each reporter was there.  For example, early on maybe it was 700 and it grew as time went on.  That, and of course, they can't count and they lie.

        Ken Salazar (D-CO), who said he'll vote for the Flag Desecration Amendment, needs to hear from us.

        by OLinda on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:38:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Wow. What a post. (none)
      You did a lot of work and I really appreciated the running commentary.  Great job on this post.  Thanks.  I'm beginning to see a blue west in my dreams....

      Hope is nature's veil for hiding truth's nakedness. -Alfred Nobel

      by AnneofGreatHope on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:27:07 PM PDT

    •  The Mayor got boo'ed (4.00)
      By the Vets bush spoke too, when the Mayor spoke to them.

      So lets no get too carried away.

      Rocky's call to protest Bush makes vets see red
      By Glen Warchol
      The Salt Lake Tribune
      Salt Lake Tribune

      Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson called for "the biggest demonstration this state has ever seen" to protest President Bush's appearance Monday before a national veterans convention.
      "This administration has been disastrous to the country," Anderson said Friday. "If people could organize and speak out in an effective manner from the reddest state in the country, that would garner a lot of attention."
      In an e-mail Wednesday to about 10 activist leaders, the maverick mayor of Utah's capital called for a diverse demonstration to greet Bush when he speaks to the Veterans of Foreign Wars at the Salt Palace Convention Center. The mayor plans to join the protesters.
      "There should be a collaboration of health-care-provision advocates, seniors, the [gay, lesbian and bisexual and transsexual] community, anti-Patriot Act advocates and other civil libertarians, anti-war folks, pro-Social Security advocates, environmental advocates, anti-nuclear-testing advocates, and anti-nuclear-waste-shipment-and-storage advocates," the mayor wrote in the e-mail.
      The mayor's message drew a howl of outrage from Mike Parkin, senior vice commander of Veterans of Foreign Wars Atomic Post 4355 in Salt Lake City.
      ''Excuse my French, but - that son of a bitch!'' he said. "It makes the mayor look very, very unpatriotic. It makes him look despicable."
      Parkin said such demonstrations, particularly against the Iraq war, give comfort to America's enemies and will be particularly offensive to the 13,000 to 14,000 veterans gathering at the convention.
      "I voted for the son of a bitch and I'll never vote for him again," said the Vietnam War veteran.
      Anderson disagrees with that measure of patriotism.
      "Patriotism," the mayor said, "demands that people speak out when we see our government officials acting in such anti-democratic and deceitful ways to the people of our country."
      He also said: "I don't understand people simply blindly going along with the sort of deceit and utter cruelty of this administration. It's not just we have the right to speak out, but we have the obligation to speak out when we see misconduct on the part of the government. The most patriotic thing we can do is stand up against the misuse of governmental power."
      Craig Axford, co-chairman of the Utah Democratic Progressive Caucus, said Anderson's encouragement of demonstrations is appropriate.
      "I don't think there's anything untoward or radical about that," said Axford, an organizer of a peace rally planned for Pioneer Park, three blocks from the convention center. "For people who appreciate the mayor and appreciate his politics, obviously it will boost our event."
      But Joe Cannon, chairman of the Utah Republican Party, said Anderson's encouragement of protests against the president was improper, though typical of the mayor.
      "What do you expect? It's Rocky. Clearly it's intended to smack the president. As the mayor of the host city, it's at best untoward."
      Cannon thinks the e-mail will only help the Utah Republican Party.
      "It's not the worst thing that can happen to remind the people of Utah the kind of things Democrats nationally stand for."
      Salt Lake City Councilman Dave Buhler, a Republican, also said the mayor's action was in poor taste.
      ''I'm disappointed he would do this and use his office to promote his political views, which do not involve the city directly.''
      Other city officials can do little, Buhler said, except "apologize for him again, as we are getting pretty good at doing."
      Anderson, who is scheduled to make welcoming remarks to the conventioneers, says veterans will understand. "The veterans of foreign wars are heroes in my view. To stand up against government misconduct is in no way expressing a lack of support for those who defend our country."
      Even though Utah gave Bush his largest margin of victory of any state in the 2000 and 2004 elections, Anderson, a Democrat, wrote in this e-mail: "Don't let him come to Utah and not see huge opposition, even in the reddest state! This would send such an important message."
      "A tepid response will just send a message of apathy and resignation. Let the Bush administration - and the world - hear from Salt Lake City!"
      Meanwhile, peace activists already were gearing up for the president's visit. Erin Davis, a veteran who opposes the war in Iraq, predicted at least 1,000 anti-war activists would begin gathering in Pioneer Park early Monday. The demonstration will be joined by a national group of military families who oppose the war.
      Anderson plans to participate at Pioneer Park demonstration against the war and is scheduled to speak.
      Axford described the rally at Pioneer Park, from 11:30 a.m. to 2 p.m., as a "pro-peace rally." It isn't being held near the Salt Palace, where the president will speak, because organizers didn't want to make the convention attendees feel unwelcome, the mayor said.
      "We didn't want to invite any kind of confrontation. We wanted to focus on our positive message."
      That message, Axford says, is: "We'd just like [the president] to explain and justify this war in light of the fact so much of what we were told we were fighting for clearly we weren't fighting for."
      ---
      Reporter Heather May contributed to this story.

    •  If you want to thank the good Mayor of SLC ... (4.00)
      ... for speaking up, his email is mayor@slcgov.com.

      I did.

    •  Wow! (none)
      Clapping and cheering as I watch video. I hope Rocky is right.

      Today is a turning point and we  are not going to take it anymore.

      The beginning of a populist movement. OMG that would be so grand!

      inspire change...don't back down

      by missliberties on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:43:55 PM PDT

    •  Al, thank you (none)
      Your diaries are always amusing, informative, and comprehensive.  What a lot of work to put all that stuff together.  We really appreciate it.

      And what a great story today in Salt Lake City!

      I was impressed by how much of the mayor's speech they showed on TV and how much the interviewer let him talk.  If it had been the talking millionaire newsreaders on the national shows they would have sound-bited him after ten seconds.  It was great to hear him actually formulate an argument.  

      Great stuff indeed.

      Wetmachine for your daily dose of technoparanoia.

      by j sundman on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 08:55:08 PM PDT

    •  You Rock Al (none)
      OUR Mr. Visual!!
    •  what I'm usually impressed by (none)
      In Al's posts is the way he is so gifted at, ah, manipulating the presentation of numbers.

      Don't get me wrong -- I think the tide is turning and the numbers are very good. But there's definitely some creative selection of axis boundaries going on there. Reminds of some ads I've seen for golf balls. Still, I suppose you take your motivation where you can get it. :-)

    •  Variance of counts of peace protesters (none)
      If you listen to all the radio and television links and read the two AP links you will even notice explanations of how difficult the layout of the park made the estimation of attendees.
      The television station reported 700 in one of the videos and 2000 in another.  I suspect that attendees arrived at different times also.  Some arrived very early and some who had further driving distances and might have made spontaneous decisions to go might have arrived as perehaps local residents might have.

      We don't need to complain about the democratic participants intended dishonesty unless we know for a fact that anyone lied.  In this case, folks who dedicated time to trying to be very accurate doubted their own numbers because of the difficulty of participants being out in the middle of the road in another part of the park and others in more isolated areas from speaker podium.

      Davis said that he got the permit for 1000 and was certain with 3 hours the crowd had reached that number so it is quite possible it reached 2000 and maybe as the local reporting took place more locals came out.  Perhaps inspired by what they heard.

      Probably more useful to compare where the numbers came from instead than alleging deceit.  When people like Randi Rhodes have to rely on reports from others who are in attendance it is unfair to assume she was less than honest and doubled her numbers or anything else.

      I guess those who are sticklers for absolute accuracy in the numbers had better join up next time and get their hineys out there countin'
      Music I heard sounded wonderful so - be careful someone might start to enjoy participation and waver on that count instead of the overall purpose of the rally.  We know numbers are much more important than peace, supporting our troops and bringin' em' home.... (snark intended)
      Ann

      I donated to ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!

      by PaintyKat on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 10:21:52 PM PDT

    •  A feast for weary eyes ... (none)
      Thanks, Al. You made my night.
    •  What Noble Cause ??? (none)
      Houston, we have a sound bite
    •  Warmed my heart (none)
      I seriously started laughing when I heard "and the only thing that's missing out here today is Bush supporters. I've only seen about 2 in this crowd of 700."

      Somebody really needs to tell the White House that "1984" is a cautionary tale, not a political guidebook.

      by jabbausaf on Mon Aug 22, 2005 at 11:57:41 PM PDT

    •  thanx again Al (none)
      this is very important work you do , fights off burn out. d kos's # 1 killer. peace.
    •  Link to some more Utah protest pictures (none)
      This page has eight pictures from the peace protest in Salt Lake City

      http://www.takeyourcountryback.com/PEACE/

      Well-behaved women rarely make history - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

      by jaysea on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 02:35:39 AM PDT

    •  A misleading article in the Salt Lake Tribune (none)
      The Salt Lake Tribune has published a misleading article asking whether the protests are bad for business.

      The author, Glen Warchol, trots out a local citizen who gives a quote about how antiwar protests are bad for business:

      Aaron Bludworth, managing director of Modern Exposition Services, a subsidiary of Salt Lake-based Modern Display, fears Anderson's "hostility" could frighten off future conventions. Modern Exposition provides a wide array of convention services.
         "We are spending all kinds of resources to make the city attractive to convention business. Then, Rocky flies off the handle and decides to protest the president in the middle of one of the biggest conventions we have," Bludworth said.

      In the journalism biz that's called a "man on the street" interview.  But something about it rang hollow when I read the article.  Where did they get this Aaron Bludworth guy?  How did he come to be interviewed for the article?

      A quick Google search reveals that Aaron Bludworth was a candidate in 2005 for the State Central Committee of the Salt Lake City Republican Party.  Bludworth also donated at least $1800 to Republican political candidates in 2004.

      Did Glen Warchol, the author, know Bludworth's affiliations?  If he knew Bludworth's affiliations, didn't Warchol violate journalistic ethics codes by failing to disclose them?  And if he didn't know, doesn't that make him incompetent for not asking?  It took me 5 seconds on Google to find the information.

      Here's another interesting question.  Does Aaron Bludworth's company, Modern Display, Inc., buy advertising from the Salt Lake Tribune?  If so, don't you think the article should mention that after mentioning the company by name?  Anyone want to find out how much advertising Modern Display has purchased from the Salt Lake Tribune and/or its sister publication the Deseret Morning News?

      If you feel like writing a letter to the Salt Lake Tribune editors, here is the contact information.

      Letters to the editor: letters@sltrib.com
      Glen Warchol, the author: glenwarchol@sltrib.com

      PS:

      Obviously, Bludworth said, political posturing can affect convention business.

      That may be more true than Bludworth realizes.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds Bludworth's "war protests are bad for business" attitude disgusting.

    •  The rats are leaving the building! (none)
      Do we just want Bush to retire and wait to inherit Kennebunkport, or do we want him held to account to discourage future un-American office holders?
      NOW is the time to start herding the turncoat GOoPers towards supporting articles of impeachment.
      "You want our vote? Then support an investigation by an IC into Bush's culpability for illegal actions!"

      The rats are leaving - maybe we should share a cab!

      I'm the plowman in the valley with my face full of mud

      by labradog on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 04:50:37 AM PDT

    •  Formally offering my help (none)
      in helping load this man's obviously gargantuan balls onto the flatbed trucks. I did a spit-take on the "we were LIED into a war"

      Religious conservatives are motivated by the suspicion that someone, somewhere, is having fun. - Badtux @ K5

      by BullitNutz on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 04:54:26 AM PDT

    •  Unfortunately our mayor in Chicago (none)
      likes Mr. AWOL.  I have a sneaking suspicion he voted for him.  And his son volunteered for Iraq.  We haven't had any really large demonstrations since his son volunteered and I'm thinkin the police aren't going to be all that friendly.  But god bless Mayor Anderson.  

      The beneficiaries are likely to be...large corporations and development firms. (O'Connor, J. dissenting in Kelo). God bless you, J. O'Connor.

      by xanthe on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 05:29:18 AM PDT

    •  Maybe I missed something but.... (none)
      I don't think so.  Tried to find a mention of this anti-war protest in my two morning papers, The Detroit Free Press, and the Brighton Argus.  Only found a one-liner in an article about Bush talking to the VFW yesterday.  The line referred to supporters who lined the streets cheering and waving flags.

      We may have some momentum building, but with the press in the condition it is in, we are going to have a very hard time overcoming non-coverage like this in the 06 elections.  

      When the middle class is gone, who will support the Republicans in the manner to which they have grown accustomed?

      by keepinon on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 05:52:45 AM PDT

    •  WOOT! (none)
      AWESOME! You made my morning
    •  Wet blanket. (none)
      I don't wish to rain on anyone's parade, nor do I wish to dampen anyones enthusiasm. I think any and all protest is a good sign... But...

      I am a lifelong resident of Salt Lake City. This city is an anomaly in an otherwise redder than red state. There's always been a vocal minority in Salt Lake, and there always will be.

      You might want to suspect that Utah could turn blue, but it's simply not the case. There are too many John Birchers, survivalist, closet racists, outright racists, and just plain conservative Mormons out here for us to ever go blue. You might see a few points come off the Republican advantage here, but I don't foresee this state going blue in my lifetime. Remember, that Utah is the only state in the nation to have a town declare a BAN on the United Nations. Yes, the LaVerkin town fathers actually were paranoid enough to make their town a  U.N.-free zone...

      You will see Orrin Hatch re-elected next year. You will continue to get a very "weak" democrat coming from the 3rd house district, and you will continue to see an 80% Republican Utah legislature. Or as I like to call it, the Religiouslature.

      Count on it.

    •  Question ??? (none)
      What is Rocky Anderson's party affiliation?
    •  Al (none)
      Thank you for compiling these charts and links.

      Good job!

      -Joon

      Torture. It's what's for dinars.

      by Joon on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 09:12:10 AM PDT

    •  I went the the Salt Lake Tribune's website and (none)
      this article, as well as these pictures, which were in a gallery of pictures, about the protest was given equal space to the Bush visit in Utah:

      http://www.sltrib.com/ci_2964923

      Article Last Updated: 08/23/2005
      Protesters make appeal to patriotism in opposing war
      ROCKY RECEPTION
      By Glen Warchol
      The Salt Lake Tribune

      Salt Lake City Mayor Mayor Rocky Anderson adresses the audience at a peace rally at Pioneer Park. (Jim Urquhart/ The Salt Lake Tribune)

      A war protester holds up a sign at a peace rally at Pioneer Park in SLC, Monday.
      (Jim Urquhart/The Salt Lake Tribune)

      *

      That article and those pictures warmed the cockles of my heart!!!

    •  No coverage in Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (none)
      Unless I missed it, our our copy of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette was missing pages, I was flabbergasted to find that this protest was not covered in today's paper!

      Instead, there was a front-page article about GWB's speech in SLC, and an accompanying photo of our Chimp-in-Chief surrounded by a gaggle of smiling soldiers.

      Of course this meant I needed to write a Letter to the Editor.  Not sure they'll publish it, but here it is for you all to check out.

      If your newspaper did not cover this counter-protest led by SLC's mayor, I urge you to write to your newspaper as well!

      Here's my LTE:

      Your front-page article in today's newspaper re President Bush's trip to Utah, with the accompanying photo of smiling soldiers with President Bush, led me to believe that his speech to the VFW convention re our involvement in Iraq was a resounding success.

      Then I learn that there was a counter-protest that same day, with more than 2,000 protestors, led by the Mayor of Salt Lake City!

      Now, maybe I just fell off the pumpkin truck, but isn't it considered news when a government official leads a very well-attended anti-war protest in the same city, and on the same day, that our President is pushing for us to remain at war?

      If you'd like more info on the protest, you can find the article in today's Salt Lake Tribune at http://sltrib.com/ci_2964923

      Our family subscribes to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.  If we keep finding more balanced reporting of world events on internet sites, we'll have to cancel our subscription.

      Please, remember the grand tradition of the Fourth Estate and cover these big stories more accurately.

      Thank you.

      •  Just saying (none)
        Great letter!
        •  Thanks! :) (none)
          I actually got a return letter from the Nation/World editor of the Post-Gazette saying he agreed with me, and that the protest story came thru to their news bureau, but it was cut due to space limitations (sure)....I'm glad he agreed w/me that there should have been some mention of the protest in the newspaper, but the fact is there wasn't....which makes it "old" news, now, I guess.

          Sigh.

          At least I tried.

    •  Al, Nice Work! (none)
      Didnt you say you wanted to talk to me about some of my Air America Radio Diaries?  Give me an e-mail and well talk.

      balletshooz@hotmail.com

      Thanks

    •  For what it's worth (none)
      I hereby estimate the percentage of people who will never abandon Bush at 20%.

      How do I estimate that number?

      Well, over on CNN the featured headline a few minutes ago was

      Pat Robertson: 'Take out' president of Venezuela

      It headed an article that very clearly stated that Pat Robertson wanted the U.S. to assassinate Hugo Chavez.  

      Lower on the page, was a quick poll:

      Do you think Pat Robertson's comment about Venezuela's Hugo Chavez was out of line?

      As of 1010 PDT today, that poll stood at just a bit over 55,000 votes, with 80% answering "Yes" and 20% answering "No."

      That 20% represents those who see killing as a valid foreign policy.  They are comfortable demonizing a recalcitrant foreign leader sitting on top of oil reserves if it helps get him out of our way.  They follow someone who professes religious views while acting in a manner patently opposed to his supposed religion.

      They are Bush's base.  

      •  not just foreign policy (none)
        I was surprised that the Robertson comment hadn't been diaried yet (as of a few minutes ago).

        Not only is he advocating assassination, but from what I read, he's basically arguing that it's about oil.

        Coming from a KKK leader, this would be one thing.  But I guess I still manage to be surprised that supposedly "Christian" leaders can get away with this kind of imperialist hate-mongering.

    •  Hate radio robot? (none)
      This Doug guy sounds positively Colmesesque compared to Hannity or Limbaugh or O'Reilly or even local Portland schmuck Lars Larson.
      •  You're right (none)
        That interview wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be in that the host wasn't like Rush/Hannity/O'Reilly.  He spouted the usual GOP talking points, but it was a civil discussion.  When the Mayor talked about our country's old alliance with Saddam, for example, I could tell that the Mayor was well-equipped to fight GOP spin on this war.    

        "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln

        by Dr Van Nostrand on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 11:15:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Wow! Al (none)
      your diary is at BuzzFlash!!
    •  from a local SLC columnist... (none)
      [Senator Orrin] Hatch confirmed that the president was aware of the protests and that Hatch told him not to worry about it, to which the president supposedly replied, "I'm not worried."

      you should be.

      "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity" -Yeats

      by jethropalerobber on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 12:05:53 PM PDT

    •  Good news bad news (none)
      I think it's great that so many people came out to protest the president in Salt Lake City (where I live, I'm from Nebraska so I'm used to disappointment) and I even went out there but Salt Lake City proper (just the city) is obviously liberal that's the only way Rock Anderson can be elected mayor. The big problem in Utah that makes it the reddest state (with the exception of Jim Matheson) is that Mormon's default to the republican party because of the ensconced Orrin Hatch and Robert Bennet (both insanely conservative). I think a social conservative  with other liberal positions could make it in Utah only if the current leadership stepped down and if he ran as an independent.  The democratic party is pretty sad here only because of most lds-ers (mormons) don't question the republican party.  As soon as their are massive protests in Provo the president should be very worried.

      I am gagging on the hypocrisy of our democracy. I hate hypo-cracy.

      by Chokingonhypocracy on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 01:06:11 PM PDT

    •  Bush is a wuss (none)
      Mr. Steely Resolve can't even catch a break in his strongholds of Utah and Boise.  He will be tracked and cornered until he cuts the defensive push-back "stay the course" waaah waah wah wah.

      It's time for bushWa to cut the crap and come out with a plan, a real plan for finishing up in Iraq.  But he won't because he has demonstrated a complete lack of leadership on just about every issue.

      Bush's weakness is that he doesn't have the guts to ask people to make sacrifices.  He'd rather be liked than respected, and when he inevitably loses respect he reacts viciously.  Even if Cheney wanted to implement a real solution, Bush couldn't bring himself to sell it to the American public.

      Bush is a total wuss.

      bizutti says, "Give me more IBU's!"

      by bizutti on Tue Aug 23, 2005 at 02:26:48 PM PDT

    •  reply to bush is a wuss (none)
      A-men to that,the dumb-ass nazi is probably still out ridding his bike and does'nt even know what's going on. We could impeach the bastard and he still would think that he was president. He is without a doubt the most out of touch,disengaged,deer in the headlights president that we have ever had. You know to a certain extent Jeff Gannon was right "You can't communicate with these people that have divorced themselves from reality" funny though Gannon/Gukurt was refering to his on party. I predict that in 08 if we do things right it could be a fifty state sweep or maybe every state besides oklahoma.
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