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This is, at least in theory, puzzling:

The administration quickly distanced itself Tuesday from the suggestion by religious broadcaster and Bush backer Pat Robertson that the United States assassinate a leftist Latin American head of state. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called Robertson's remarks about Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez "inappropriate," but stopped short of condemning them. "This is not the policy of the United States government," McCormack said. "We do not share his views.". . . McCormack tiptoed around the question of whether the rest of the world might assume that Robertson speaks, if not directly for Bush, at least for a sizable share of the Republican Party. "I would think that people around the world would take the comments for what they are," McCormack said. "They're the expression of one citizen."

That is rich. When BushCo feels compelled to say crap like this:

Trent Duffy, a White House spokesman subbing for Scott McClellan, said that President Bush believes that those who want the U.S. to begin to change course in Iraq do not want America to win the overall "war on terror." Speaking to reporters, Duffy said that Bush "can understand that people don't share his view that we must win the war on terror."

What crap. Dems are calling Bush on this:

Democrats called the Bush administration's response tepid, and said it lends credence to the notion that the White House doesn't want to offend some of its most loyal supporters. "It seems they are shuffling their feet when they should be running away from what Pat Robertson said," Democratic political consultant Steve McMahon said. "That this president, who projects himself as brave and bold, doesn't want to stand up to his own right wing is ironic."

Ironic but, in a way, not surprising. Bush and the Republicans are the Party of Joe McCarthy AND the Party of Dobson. No false smear of Democrats is left unsaid and no disagreement with the extremists of their extreme GOP will ever be spoken.

Wingnuts on parade.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 08:56 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Lest we forget (4.00)
    Pat Robertson is actually a big fan of dictators:

    In the mid-1990s, Pat struck up a friendship with Mobutu Sese Seko, the brutal tyrant of Zaire. He took a trip to the African nation with a large entourage on one of Mobutu's personal planes. Then the group was whisked off to his presidential yacht, which took them to his estate. One member of the party characterized their host as quite congenial: "Pat Robertson and Mobutu get along extremely well. Mobutu was interested in bringing in people to get the mining and agriculture operations going again."

    Robertson purchased rights from Mobutu to dredge for diamonds in a remote portion of the Zaire river near Tshikapa. Diamond mining is an expensive proposition. It requires a constant influx of miners and equipment parts. In order to keep his operation supplied with manpower and gear, personnel and materiel had to be flown in from other places. That can get expensive.

    In a cost-cutting move, Pat ferried his cargo aboard planes owned by Operation Blessing, a tax-exempt charity of Robertson's working to deliver medical supplies. In fact, according to two pilots who worked for Robertson, nearly all of the flights they made on the Operation Blessing planes were delivery trips to and from the mining site. Later, one of them told a reporter:

    "My first impression when I took the job was that we'd be called Operation Blessing and we'd be doing humanitarian work. We got over there and 'Operation Blessing' was painted on the tails of the airplanes, but we were doing no humanitarian relief at all. We were just supplying the miners and flying the dredges from Kinshasa out to Tshikapa."
    Even after the mining operation went bust a few years later, Robertson kept in touch with Mobutu. Reports claim that he sent a personal messenger "offering his assistance and cooperation" in 1996, when rebels were about to overtake the government's military strongholds. Pat unsuccessfully lobbied the State Department to reinstate Mobutu's visa so he could come to the United States.

    In 1999, Pat struck up a relationship with another African dictator, Liberian strongman Charles Taylor. Robertson stuck an $8 million deal to pursue more mining in his country. This time, he wasn't hunting for diamonds -- he was hunting for gold. According to a Liberian government press release, Pat told Taylor: "I pray that this investment may become a wonderful blessing to the people of Liberia and will be one of the many significant investments that will be made under your administration in the nation of Liberia."

    Pat chartered Freedom Gold Ltd. in the Cayman Islands and dispatched geologists to southeastern Liberia for prospecting. They didn't find much. But that hasn't diminished Robertson's zeal. When President George W Bush started making noises about Charles Taylor having to step down in order to halt the Liberian civil war, the preacher publicly excoriated Bush for failing to support the leader of a sovereign Christian nation, even if he had perpetrated crimes against humanity on a massive scale.

    And then there's China. Pat has business interests in the Communist nation. So when Robertson appeared on CNN defending China's forced-abortion policy, it didn't surprise veteran Pat watchers. Here's what he said: "Well, you know, I don't agree with it, but at the same time, they've got 1.2 billion people and they don't know what to do... If every family over there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would be completely unsustainable... so I think that right now they're doing what they have to do."

    Surprisingly, Pat's primary objection to the policy appeared to be rooted in eugenics. As a result of aborting almost exclusively female babies, Pat observed that China will eventually face "a critical shortage of wives. The young men won't have any women to marry, so it will, in a sense, dilute the -- what they consider the racial purity of the Han Chinese. And that to them will be a great tragedy, because then they will have to be importing wives from Indonesia."

    Isn't that really beside the point? Whatever happened to "abortion is evil"? Seems like Pat just doesn't want to piss off his Communist business partners

    From Rotten.com http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/televangelists/pat-robertson/

    Nevermind condeming him. The fact that the White House has anything to do with this wacko is shameful.

    Thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall: And universal Darkness buries All.

    by Dunciad on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 08:59:46 AM PDT

    •  You Are Forgetting! (none)
      War is peace. (And visa versa.)
      Truth is lies. (And visa versa.)
      Freedom is slavery. (And visa versa.)
      Dictatorship is democrary. (And visa versa.)
        "Now I understand everything!"
            -- Lambchop
    •  Don't get you panties in bunch. (none)
      After all, what's a little assasination among torturers? </sarcasm>

      I just posted this comment to another diary on torture here: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/24/114631/004

      * [new]   The statements of Walls and Davis need to be common knowledge. The American public has to be slapped upside the face with what the Bush administraion is doing. I do mean Bushco. The elisted people responsible bear a little responsibility. The officers  moreso. The Bush administration, those furthering their ideological and financial goals and the expense of all of us, they're the one's who hold ultimate responsibility.

      They'll never own up to it. It's gonna take the American people to hold them responsible.

      Some other names to remember:

      Maher Arar, Canadian citizen, survived torture.
      Sean Baker, Army Reserve, survived with brain damage.
      Mandel Al Jamadi, hung from the ceiling and beaten to death.
      Diliwar, hung from the ceiling and beaten to death.

      So how did Sean Baker, an American citizen come to be on this list? He was playing the role of a detainee at Gitmo and his captors mistook him for a real detainee.

      The sad truth is that if you take a cross-section of Americans (even the ones I attended USAFA with from 1984-1988, acutally some of them were more drunk with power than average) they're not that different from humans everywhere. Which is to say, we all have to battle the dark side of human nature, the urge to oppression and petty tyranny. That's what the frickin' U.S. Constitution was for, to mitigate the worst aspects of human nature.

      I've said it before on dkos and I'll say it again. There was a lot of flag waving and talk of honor during my 9 years in the USAF, but very little respect for basic human rights and Constitutional principles.

      This is not to say every USAF member is dangerous to the Constitution. JabbaUSAF bears this out. What I'm saying is the culture as a whole, was (I left in 1994) and likely still is, poisonous to democracy.

      Damn those are strong words. I'll stand by them though.

      24"x18" poster (PDF) by NewCon06, America Stands With Cindy!

      by nuttymango on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:28:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Easy joke (none)
      Shite cleric Pat Robertson said.......
  •  It is disgusting (none)
    The remarks by the administration have been tepid at best.

    There shoudl be an outright condemnation.  At least a couple Republican Senators, Coleman and Martinez were unequivocal in their condemnation of what Robertson said.

    I also think a few of the far right Christian groups have been maintaining silence.

    Robertson's remarks are getting more and more out there, and he needs to be condemned by all on the right or left as a fringe member of our society at best.

    Bush, so incompetent, he can't even do the wrong things right.

    by JAPA21 on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:00:05 AM PDT

    •  Frist Post (none)
      I think that the only reason Trent Lott was "Trent Lotted", as it turns out, is because Bill Frist wanted him out.

      There is no power struggle here, so there is no force to effect the change from within.

      Seems to be the nature of power, and they got a bunch of it!

  •  Bold Response (none)
    The Administration's response should be bold and unequivocal.  Unfortunately, it is obvious that we are NOT going to get this.  There may be a silver lining to their approach, though. They hand us more fodder for the future.

    Republicans are about ME. Democrats are about WE.

    by elstevens on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:00:49 AM PDT

  •  Can we (4.00)
    Compare the administration's expressions of outrage over Senator Durbin's comments with their tepid reaction here?

    I believe in saving money. I believe in having a house. I believe in keeping things clean. I believe in exercising. www.walken2008.com

    by The Exalted on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:01:06 AM PDT

    •  Would sure like to see the MSM (none)
      stick a camera and microphone in front of as many DC GOP faces as they did when they went after Durbin, Dean and F/9-11 and Moore.

      What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away

      by Marie on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:04:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Don't hold your breath (none)
        Many of the media's reports this morning cite Robertson's claim that he never used the word assassination without reporting that that is just a plain LIE.
        "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it." -Pat Robertson

        They should play the film of his lie followed by the film of the truth, but they don't even bother to point out verbally that he said assassination at least twice.

        The Media Is Dead. Long Live NewsCorpse.com

        by KingOneEye on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:52:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You know when (4.00)
          institutions and individuals are sick when they can simply deny that a documentated statement was ever uttered.  How they must long for a method to shoot out edits to everything printed, on the net or recorded to delete what they want to disappear.

          Orwell overestimated the intelligence of humans -- assumed that the historical record had to be revised to conform to the current official version.  He never considered that the official version could be enforced in spite of all the documented contradictions to it.

          What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away

          by Marie on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 10:26:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  And according to (none)
      at least one expert, Robertson's words will lead to harm or death for Americans in South America, how many were killed as a direct result of what Durbin stated?

      "September 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country." Judge Gerald Tjoflat

      by SanJoseLady on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:25:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Robertson is a repeat offender (none)
    For years, he's gotten away with making outrageous statements, then offering a mea minima culpa which leads to his absolution by the media. A few months later, an unchastened Robertson makes another outrageous statement, thus repeating the cycle.

    It's long past time for Mr. Robertson to have his "accountability moment."

    •  Pat is untouchable, my friend (none)
      Pat Robertson is old Virginia money. And old Virginia money is fuck-you money.

      Pat is not answerable to anyone. No one has any leverage to use. He doesn't give a damn what you think or what the Bushes think.

      Take my advice and go after a softer target.

  •  It must be hard (4.00)
       It would be very hard for them to condemn Robertson; first, for the obvious reason that he's an old and close friend who's carried water for them on numerous occasions, and who can even claim some credit for their razor-thin victory in 2004; second, because he is, after all, expressing a desire which it's not yet politic for them to get out in the open; and which, for all we know, he was asked to express.
  •  I'm shocked (none)
     It's hard to believe that Bushco wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds it. The truth is that I'm torn between revulsion and anticipation every time Robertson opens his mouth. I just can't wait to hear his next insane pronouncement. Gays cause hurricanes, kill all the judges and anyone he doesn't like, ect. Oh boy.
  •  Let them twist slowly in the wind... (none)
    It's probably better that Bush DOESN'T condemn Robertson.  It just serves to further illustrates the absolute moral bankruptcy of this crowd.

    But the Democrats should keep the pressure on, and see just how badly the Bushies can contort themselves in a futile effort to get away.

  •  At least we can get Pat to apologize (none)
    •  I don't want Pat to apologize (4.00)
      I want him and his stupid "club" driven off the air and a wedge driven between real Republicans and the religious whackos they are increasingly calling their base.

      Complaining about the government but failing to run for office (or at least vote) is morally equivalent to cheerleading the war and failing to enlist.

      by RequestedUsername on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:10:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Apologize? (none)
      Apologize?  We should thank him for telling us what the Neo-Cons really think.

      Reminds me of Trent Lott's moment of truth.  The left foolishly ran out and demanded Lott apologize for his "insensitive" remarks (celebrating Sen. Thurmond's 1948 presidential platform - one that included condemnation of federal anti-lynching laws) and that he retract them .  We need more, not less honesty out of that crowd.

  •  They would only apologize as a last resort (4.00)
    They have a whole raft of options still available:

    Their usual pattern is to first claim that the offending remarks were taken out of context. Defense No. 2 is to attack those criticizing the offending remarks. Third, frame the remarks in the context of the ongoing fight against terrorism and the "changed reality" of post-9/11 America. Fourth, deflect the criticism by finding one aspect of it that is wrong or questionable and hammering on that instead of the main point. Fifth, change the subject. Sixth, ignore it. Seventh, find some socialist website where the remarks have been posted so as to prove to the base that the attack is a conspiracy. Eighth, go for the full lie and claim he never said it.

  •  Lunch with bankers (none)
    I was at lunch where the chief economist of Wachovia mentioned that he wished that we could get rid of Chavez and overthrow him.

    This was in May. It has taken it this long to trickle downstream.

    •  Nah, this has been (none)
      on BushCo's "to do" list since they took office.  Remember, they tried to do it on the cheap with that coup or whatever it was in 2001.  My read is that they were a bit miffed at Otto Reich for flubbing that one -- not putting together a strategic plan that worked (as if anybody in this administration has crafted a successful strategic plan other than those designed to steal elections).

      What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away

      by Marie on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:08:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My mind still isn't quite devious enough... (none)
        ..to keep up with you folks.  Or, for that matter, to keep up with Bush's puppet masters.

        As Custer said in "Little Big Man":

        "Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner. You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really DON'T want me to go down there!"

        •  Nor is mine -- (none)
          that's why I can't instantly read some of the BushCo moves.  Although I can usually sense when to hold back until a better read is possible.  The one that I really couldn't run with in real time was Lott's racist comments once it had reached a certain level of outrage.  I kept sensing that we were missing something -- and the left was doing Rove's work for him.  They shoved Lott up against the wall and Rove was more than happy to replace Lott with Frist.  (That's also when I came to appreciate Rove's skill at being situationally opportunistic.)

          Similarly, lots of DC DEMs are doing GWB's bidding by holding Iran up as the greater danger.  BushCo would like nothing better than to take on Iran -- and it would be so much easier once Democrats have made the sale for the need to do something about Iran.  And for Americans "doing something" about a threat, means bombing someone, somewhere.

          What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away

          by Marie on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 10:34:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  They can't (none)
    criticize Robertson too much because, after all, he only said what the WH can't say themselves.

    What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away

    by Marie on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:05:27 AM PDT

  •  RNC Trial Balloons (4.00)
    These statements from loathsome characters such as Limbaugh, Robertson et al are nothing other than trial balloons being floated by Bushco. Far enough away from the seat of power to deny being a part of them if they, like this one, sink to the ground like a lead weight.
    •  Balloon Or Diversion (none)
           Actually, having a televangelist wacko like Robertson coming out with retarded shit like this has the effect of making Bush look moderate by comparison.  Plus the deliberately tepid official response is an obvious wink to the party's base.

           Of course hemispheric relations will take a head-whipping, but who cares?

           Rapture is coming.

      Most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place they're capable of anything--Noah Cross.

      by angry blue planet on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:20:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Coordinated? (4.00)
    Karen Hughes is undersecretary of state for Public Diplomacy. On another thread someone claimed she had met with Pat recently before this statement. I would really like to know what they talked about. Why would the administration want this kind of public threat? or was Karen just trying to rein him in?
  •  Uh, I dunno, (none)
    why won't BushCo condemn the financial and moral gouging/disemboweling of the US by their but-buddies?  Sorry, I meant, "Their Base".

    "Every day, in every way, I think I'm going to vomit."

    by seronimous on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:12:10 AM PDT

  •  cowards (none)
    They won't stand up to Robertson, no matter what he says - even if what he calls for is against US law, human decency, and our own standards for terrorism.

    YOU HEAR THAT, WINGNUTS?  YOU SNEAKING OVER FROM REDSTATE AND LGF?  YOUR DEAR LEADER IS A COWARD.  AND IF YOU WON'T CALL HIM OUT ON IT, THEN YOU'RE COWARDS TOO.

    Period. Cowards.

    There is an unsubtle difference between breathing fire and blowing smoke.

    by Leggy Starlitz on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:12:20 AM PDT

  •  Has Robertson Killed Before? (4.00)
    Pat Robertson's remarks about Chavez in Venezuala are similar to the fatwas issued in the Middle East or Osama bin Laden's calls for assassinations.  They're not identical in that he wasn't calling on any particular person to take these actions, nor was he offering rewards to anyone who actually carried out the assassination.  Nevertheless, I think his statement was close enough to a threat for Venezuala to demand his extradition as a potential terrorist threat.

    Certainly the US government would comply, since we're either with the terrorists or against them.

    More to the point, however, given Robertson's apparent interest in using assassination as a response to commercial concerns (in this case, availability of oil) is the question of whether he may have already employed assassination in his own business dealings.

    I bring this up because Robertson is known to have have commercial interests in diamond and mineral exploitation in Africa, in countries where the rule of law is not as reliable as it is in the West.  His inclination to use assassination, coupled with his seeming familiarity with its costs, indicates to me that he may have some experience with it in the past.

    George W. Bush -- It's mourning in America.

    by LarryInNYC on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:12:39 AM PDT

  •  always nice to see those fundamentalist obey (none)
    the commandments they want to hang in everybody's classroom.  Like don't lie and don't kill.  I would pay good money to see Pat Robertson's judgement at the pearly gates...

    the ball is round, the game last 90 minutes. Everything else is theory.

    by Dont Tread on Me on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:12:57 AM PDT

  •  It's actually an effective strategy (none)
    What's Reagan's 11th commandment? Bush knows he still has to curry favor with the Right.  Noone to the right of him will be openly chastised.  Everyone to the left of him will be.  This keeps the base happy and continually moves the pendulum to the right.  The kowtowing press will spend all day long talking about rifts between Democrats and the Republicans will maintain the illusion of consensus (except for traitors like Hagel, Wilson, Clarke etc.)

    Press meme:
    Republicans = united
    Democrats = divided, no consensus

    Very simple especially since the MSM refuses to ask the hard questions.

    "It's not my business to do intelligent work." - Donald Rumsfeld

    by skibumfordean on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:14:27 AM PDT

  •  Bush's brain (none)
    is tepid on a good day.  I could care less if he condemns it or not.  If we are lucky, maybe he'll piss off a Venezeulan who'll send him pretzels.
  •  I Think They Might Be Miffed (none)
    that Robertson tipped their hand.

    Or that the trial ballon went over like a lead one.

    Or maybe they're pleased, seeing this as a way to distract attention from Cindy Sheehan.

    Inquiring minds want to know!

  •  The PCB Wing (4.00)
    It is common for wingnut pundits and high-ranking administration officials to quickly denounce those who disagree with Bush's policies and label them as part of the Michael Moore-moveon.org wing of the Democrat party.  For instance, I have often cautioned my wife about being so vocal when proclaiming that something she is rightly passionate about was in a moveon.org e-mail she received.  I know that she is a very benevolent woman who is really concerned about justice and truth, but I don't want her to be labeled as a leftist-commie-pinko-terrorist loving-America hater, which she is not.  So as much as I deplore using such simplistic labels or categorizations, I guess we need to recognize that they do sometimes serve to clarity.  For example, we need to recognize that there is a PCB wing of the Republican Party.   That is the highly toxic DeLay-Ney-Abramoff-Rove-Cunningham-Taft-Robertson-Dobson-Colson-Falwell wing of the Republican Party.  By the way, PCB is an acronym for Preachers-Crooks-Bigots...distinction often blurry, but membership always undistinguished.   Not surprising to see such a tepid response, as the PCBs just don't attack one another.
  •  Steve McMahon is calling Bush on this (none)
    but where are our elected officials?  
  •  For more on Robertson's support of dictators (none)
    For more background on Robertson's support of other dictators, see the latest entry at the Conservative blog "The Cunning Realist":

    http://cunningrealist.blogspot.com/

    Disclaimer:  I have nothing to do with the Cunning Realist blog, but I find it greatly reassuring that a principled conservative is able to approach so many of the wingnuts' failings in much the same way that people at Kos do.

  •  Robertson's words will hurt and kill Americans (4.00)
    Noel Koch former director of special planning at the Department of Defense interviewed on  Aaron Brown CNN Newsnight August 23:

    BROWN: Go back to that -- just a final point on the bin Laden question. I know this honestly makes me look small. But at some level, I just think I, and I think the country, would feel better if some drone missile popped him in the mountains of Afghanistan.

    KOCH: Well, if your policy is to make yourself feel better, then you can do it. But advocating these things -- look, I want to make one point here.

    As a result of what Mr. Robertson has done -- my company, Transecure, is a private intelligence organization. We collect and analyze information around the globe to help our corporate clients understand the source and the gravity of the risk that confronts their travelers and their in-country operations.

    Now, within hours after this unfortunate statement by Mr. Robertson, we began to see the indicators flutter. And there's no question in my mind that we are going to have Americans hurt and probably killed, not just in Caracas, or just in Venezuela, but throughout the southern hemisphere.

    The threat level against Americans is rising very rapidly as a result of what one of them referred to me -- when he was talking to me -- as the ignorance of arrogance. And there's a tremendous amount of resentment toward this sort of thing.

    BROWN: Mr. Koch, that is a great good exclamation point on this whole discussion. We said at the beginning words have consequences. And you just pointed them out. Thank you. It's good to talk to you.

    KOCH: Thank you.

    BROWN: Terrific guest. Thank you.

    "September 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country." Judge Gerald Tjoflat

    by SanJoseLady on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:21:23 AM PDT

  •  You forgot to mention (4.00)
    Also the party that overthrew two popularly elected presidents in Iran and Chile because these elected president said NO to U.S. business interests. Mossadegh of Iran said he was going to raise the price of oil in so that he could provide a beter life for his people. Salvador Allende nationalized a number of companies that were owned by the U.S. so that he could provide a better life to the people of Chile.

    So both were overthrown.

    I wonder what they intend to do about the leftist governments that are spreading all over South America.

    Uraguay just elected someone, Vazquez, with the same political leanings as Chavez, and Uraguay just discussed improving its ties with Cuba, and comdemned the U.S. embargo of that nation.

    If anything, Robertsons statements have already seemd to bolster massive support for him and seem to bode well for Chavez' ruling coalition in Decembers congressional election, as well as for Chavez' own re-election the next year.

    The last monthly polls I have seen for Chavez were in May with 71 percent support, and that was up from 67 percent in April. But in the last 24 hours, polls about the United States have plummeted.

    Chavez' enourmous popularity results from his shifting of the wealth from oil revenues into the national educational system, national health care and food subsidies, and away from support for the private sector.

    The Venezualan state owned oil company(used to be private sector)planes shifting sales away from the U.S. to China with plans to boost oil production and sales to China five fold by the year 2012.

    But most of Latin America has shifted trade away from the U.S. and towards China

    The poor are to the Venezualan electorate what the middle class is in the U.S. and Chavez is more popular than any U.S. President has ever been with the Middle Class.

    Here we have a continent which we could form some economic union with similar to the E.E.C. but because the U.S. never treats other nations as equal partners, but merely as sheep to be fleeced, we  never set up treaties that work beneficially in both directions, as occured with the E.E.C. Our deals are always set up for exploit both the trading partners and our own citizens.

  •  Republican Congressman Signs DSM Inquiry (none)
    OT but great news!

  •  Where are our Democrats??? (none)
    Democratic political consultants are NOT our elected representatives!
    Dang! these Dims are disgusting - especially when it's been handed to them on a silver tray!
  •  Double Standards (none)
    How can one go around calling for assasinations without being labeled a terrorist? There is so much talk about whether it is a Christian thing to do and whether or not such acts are legally permitted.

    However, if someone in or outside the US called for such acts against one of our dear leaders, you would be sure that they would have a pre-emptive strike on their doorstep. How can it even be legal or allowable by even the DoHS to do this at all?

    ...Whirlpools whirl, and dragnets drag...

    by dss on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:32:46 AM PDT

  •  P.S. (none)
    Chavez is only the most left of the most recent string of left and center left governments elected recently in Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Uruguay and Venezuela. With Marxist rebels controlling half of Columbia, "The Robertson Doctrine" is going to be very problematic.
  •  Ironic, indeed... (none)
    What I find most interesting is that while trying to distance themselves from Robertsons assassination remarks, they seem to be forgetting that we tried to do exactly the same thing at the start of the Iraq war.  Does anyone remember the "decapitation attempt" that got everything started?  We were trying to assassinate Saddam Hussein.

    (I diaried about it here last night, but that would just be diary whoring.)

  •  Under the new UK rules (none)
    Under the new UK rules, would Pat Robertson be deported?

    "The prohibited activities include writing, producing or publishing provocative material; preaching and other public speech; running a website or exerting influence in positions such as a teacher or community leader."

    ...Whirlpools whirl, and dragnets drag...

    by dss on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:40:41 AM PDT

  •  Family Channel needs to put out a hit (none)
    I can't believe that the "Family Channel" still has  done nothing about Robertson, since they spew forth with the tripe on his "700 Club" show.  Sure they venured forth with some choice wordsmithing:

    "ABC Family strongly rejects the views expressed by Pat Robertson in the Aug. 22 telecast of the program," the network said. "All comments about 'The 700 Club' should be directed to the Christian Broadcast Network through their toll-free number or via their Web site at www.cbn.com."

    There are no plans to drop "700 Club" from ABC Family, a spokeswoman for the network added.


    •  Itsn't it about time (none)
      we started after the "Christian Coalition" type mob.  Taking dollars from lonely seniors so they can pray for them, in order to buy diamond mines is surely not a christian idea.

      We need to start a netroot earthquake linking everything we talk about to Robertson's stupid, possibly terroristic, statement.

  •  Democrats don't get it (none)
    Bush supports Robertson because Roberson supports Bush. Most of the screaming media will not bash Bush for supporting Robertson because they support Bush's  'take-over-the-world' policies too.

    Check your newspaper editorials and pundits for disapprovals of Bush's empire foreign policy starting with the misdirected Iraq war.

  •  FCC Compaint (none)
    Would this be grounds for going after ABC's license? Promoting terrorism and all?

    Start filing a FCC complaint about the ayolatlah robinson promoting murder on the public airwaves. At the very least it should create some discomfort for the bush bots on the FCC board.

    •  Jesse Jackson.......... (none)
      ..is calling for an FCC investigation. He's says that a televised call for the murder of a head of state may even be more dangerous to America than Janet Jackson's exposed breast. Good one Jesse ('bout time by the way).
  •  Why Won't BushCo Condemn Robertson's Remarks? (4.00)
    Simple enough.

    1-They want to win elections, and there is a SIZEABLE group of voting Americans for whom Robertson speaks. Remember...one good-sized red state less and we are dealing with President Kerry. Or for that matter, 2nd term President Gore.

    2-There are many people in this administration who would do this assassination...and a number of others...in a heartbeat if they thought that they could get away with it. The muddle-headed naiveté of Roberston's thinking that there would be no world-wide reprisals from such actions, that it would be an advantageous move, is the only REALLY outrageous part of his statement.

    3-Also remember...for over 40 years the U.S. tried to assassinate Castro. Probably still is. Through Republican AND Democratic administrations. Let alone what other nefarious plots they have been about that did NOT break the surface. There is a permanent government and a permanent military at work here, and they wargame EVERYTHING THAT THEY CAN THINK OF. No "morality" at work. Just the pragmatic pursuit and protection of power.

    Realpolitik.

    The writings of Machiavelli and Metternich hold high place on the shelves of many in this government. Right next to a framed picture of Henry Kissinger receiving the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Do not expect any more from these people and you will not be disappointed. They are in positions of power in each and every government and organization in the world, from the local PTA right on up to great nations and world religious organizations. Hell, it even happens on BLOGS. Bet on it.

    Real POLITICS.

    How to beat them at their own game without PLAYING their own game? THERE'S a question for you...

    The stuff of myth.

    The Chinese wrote about it. (It is the central question in the I Ching. How to successfully deal with "evil" without becoming what you fight.)

    The Greeks wrote about it.

    It sits in the middle of the original foundation of every major religious movement in the histroy of mankind. And it is the secret to the ultimate FAILURE of those religions. From Christ to the Holy Roman Empire (which Voltaire described as "neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire") in 800 years or less.

    Shaespeare wrote about it.

    EVERBODY wrote about it.

    And here it is.

    Still.

    Our turn in the barrel...

    'Round and 'round and 'round she goes. Where she stops...nobody knows...

    Charles

  •  Robertson is the one to work on (none)
    We need to make his voice have the same connotation with the public, that the far right has done with moveon. Make Robertson the poster child of the far right.

    Every time an issue comes up the far right supports, like "no stem cell research" we should be saying, "but this is from the same guy who supports assassination."

    Or "Pat Robertson thinks abortion is evil and a sin, but he supports assassination. He doesn't have a moral compass? How can we trust him to know what is right about this "

    Mythology is what we call other people's religion-Joseph Campbell

    by Sherri in TX on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 09:57:05 AM PDT

  •  Tell the ONE campaign to Dump Pat Robertson (4.00)

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

    Email them today. Diaried at the ePluribus Media community site.
  •  Pat Robertson for Congress! (none)
    Have him challenge Rep. Thelma Drake in the Republican primary for VA-02. He defeats her, and a Democrat goes on to take back the seat (held by Democrat Owen Pickett until his retirement in 2000).

    Thoughts?

    Yeah yeah, I know, the rapture is coming.

    by Nathaniel Ament Stone on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 10:02:47 AM PDT

  •  Misunderstood (none)
    Poor Pat.  He was just on the airwaves sayin' he didn't mean that anyone should kill Hugo!! He just said we should "take him out." I'll betcha by golly wow he means that he wants to take him out maybe for a nice dinner, a little dancing, and ,if he got lucky, a kiss instead of a handshake at the door. Even rabid fundamentalist hatemongers like Pat need a little fun now and then.

    ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!

    by DEFuning on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 10:04:10 AM PDT

  •  who's the real threat? (3.50)
    the Bush Administration had no problem calling peace activist Cindy Sheehan a threat to National Security and claiming that her words could incite the terrorists and put our troops in danger....but Roberston calling for an assassination is simply "the expression of one citizen."
  •  ES&S | SAIC | Chavez and Election fraud (none)
    Was Venezuela an experimental laboratory for US purge of power :: the ES&S contract with SAIC (1.2mb pdf) to change the democratic outcome of elections!

    If the machines would have done the job, Chavez would have been "fixed" out of power and was second option of assassination not necessary. Someone at the religious wheel of ES&S should be held accountable and be fired, or at least have all gratifications for path to heaven taken away.

  • ES&S documented failures (.pdf)
  • SAIC & Elections

    ~~~

  •  I mkeep hearing about (none)
    the Democrats lack of back-bone, yet this administration is constantly showing itself to be a bunch of invertabrates. They are afraid to condemn this guy. They disgust me at every turn.

    I think the American people--I hope the American-I don't think, let me--I hope the American people trust me.-George W. Bush

    by kitebro on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 10:23:52 AM PDT

  •  Venezuelan Democracy (none)
    As far as I know, Hugo Chavez was elected with 60% of the vote.  He won a recall vote last August with 58% of the vote.

    Is Venezuela not a democracy?  If it is, then shouldn't the Bush administration be vociferously defending them.  I mean wasn't the big push in the 2005 State of the Union to promote democracy worldwide?  Might assassinating a democratically elected official be greatly counter-productive to that goal?

    "And I said rambling man why don't you settle down, Baghdad ain't my kinda town. There ain't no gold and there ain't no body like me."

    by tx va dem on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 10:23:54 AM PDT

  •  Pat backed off those comments on CNN today... (none)
    saying that he was only suggesting U.S. Special Forces could blast the Franz Ferdinand song "Take Me Out" at loud volumes around Venezula to force Chavez from power. Just a silly misunderstanding folks. Move along. Nothing to see here.
  •  Robertson (none)
    Kind of funny (not really) how the right tears into Cindy Sheehan, calling her everything from a "crackpot" to a "pathetic creature" and worse, but all they do is "distance" themselves from Pat Robertson's comments. No condemnation. No firm rebukes. No name-calling.

    I think that says everything we need to know about the right wing zealots in this country.

  •  Frankly, I believe (none)
    that the reason that they are distancing themselves from Robertson rather than repudiating him, is that he dared to say out loud what all too many of them are thinking. They don't find him extreme; merely indiscreet.
  •  Robertson has taken the expected approach today. (none)
    Play the victim and blame others. "You misinterpteted me."  So, Robertson did nothing wrong, but everybody who heard him made a mistake.He really meant we should kidnap Chavez?  Would this be more acceptable?  Does he actually think we could kidnap a foreign head-of-state without killing a lot of people in the process?  This response makes the situation even worse.  Keep the pressure on him.

    So I see only tatters of clearness through a pervading obscurity - Annie Dillard

    by illinifan17 on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 11:07:13 AM PDT

  •  You (none)
    know how it is in the Church of the Diebold.
      The christianity of the voting booth.
    Their grasp of Jesus never exceeds their grasp of which lever to pull.
  •  Open message to Pat Robertson (none)
    To the Rev. Pat Robertson -

    With the comments that you have made you should no longer consider yourself a minister of Christ.
    "Thou shall not kill" is one of the Ten Commandments. Any minister that goes against and supports those who do are great sinners.
    Sin includes thoughts as well as overt actions.

    Anyone who does not condemn these remarks should be seen as supporting this. If President Bush does not come out publicly and condemn his remarks is a sign that he at least privately supports them.

    The policy of this country should never be one of supporting assassination or even the appearence of such.

    Both President Bush & Rev. Robertson do not forget for one moment that God knows what you do and the thoughts that you have. Repent now!!

  •  PAT ROBERTSON, LYIN' FOR JESUS (none)
    MONDAY: "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of ASSASSINATION, but if he thinks we're trying to ASSASSINATE him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and DO IT. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."

    TUESDAY: "Wait a minute, I DIDN'T SAY 'ASSASSINATION.' I said our special forces should, quote, 'take him out,' and 'take him out' can be a number of things including kidnapping. There are a number of ways to take out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted by the AP, but that happens all the time."
    **************
    "Mr. Robertson, we've had our 700 Club executive staff brainstorm on damage control, and we've come up with the following plan":

    MONDAY: Who would Jesus assassinate?
    TUESDAY: Who would Jesus kidnap?
    WEDNESDAY: Who would Jesus 'take out'?
    THURSDAY: Who would Jesus take out on a date?
    FRIDAY: Who would Jesus marry?
    SATURDAY: Which televangelist would newlywed Jesus support?
    SUNDAY: Please send your 700 Club donations here...
    MONDAY: "What? I have no idea what you're talking about. Never happened!"
    TUESDAY: "I'm proud to announce my candidacy for the 2008 presidential election."

  •  We Must Tar the Republican Right with Robertson (none)
    Democrats and progressives have been remiss in failing to tar the Republican Right with the hatemongers like Robertson who constitute their political base.

    Ask the average American to name the reverend who once referred to NY City as "hymietown" and most will correctly identify Jesse Jackson --even though his remark was an off-camera joke made in the mid-1980's. But ask which reverend published an entire book arguing that Jews are secretly conspiring to take over the world and impose a satanic New World Order, or which reverend called Methodists and Episcopalians the "Antichrist," and they'll scratch their heads.

    That's because the Right made it their goal to repeatedly mention Jackson's slur every time they talk about "Democrats" or "the Left." They do the same thing with any controversial progressive, no matter how insignificant or unintentional --whether it's Barbara Streisand, MoveOn, the Dean Scream or Robert Byrd.

    We need to mention Republican hatemongers and bigots like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones, Sun Myung Moon, etc. EVERY DAY, in every letter to the editor and every call-in show.

    We need to make EVERY SINGLE ELECTED REPUBLICAN DENOUNCE AND APOLOGIZE for Pat Robertson's pro-terrorist remarks.

    We need to portray the Republicans for who they are: the party of radical racists like Trent Lott, David Duke, the Moonies and Strom Thurmond.

    Don't let think of an elephant -- make them think of Radical Clerics, unreconstructed bigots, televangelist cranks, and America-hating fundamentalists.

  •  And now in typical Repug (none)
    speak Pat Robertson is saying that he was misinterpreted and that by "taking out" could me several things. I guess he forgot he said "If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it."

    What a moron and to think he is supposed to be a religious leader.

    Did you hear what the Buddist said to the hot dog vendor? "Make me one with everything."

    by kidshaleen on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 11:57:31 AM PDT

  •  How stupid does Pat Robertson think we are? (none)
    "Media Matters" Quotes Robertson

    In fact, Robertson explicitly called for Chavez's assassination on the August 22 broadcast of The 700 Club:

    ROBERTSON: You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war. And I don't think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger and the United ... This is in our sphere of influence, so we can't let this happen. We have the Monroe Doctrine, we have other doctrines that we have announced. And without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil, that could hurt us very badly. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.

  •  Those who play..... (none)
    With matches, typically increase the odds of getting burned.  In other words, its not so much what we think about this outrageous statement that matters, rather what do the Venezuelans think about all of this, and what do they plan to do about it??

    Last time I looked, gas was going for about $2.75 for regular here.  Now let me think, what is it that those folks export (legally) to this country?  OH Yeah, OIL!  Guess biting the hand that feeds the American consumer is just par for the course for PR AND GW.  They wouldn't be in line to  make any money if Venezuela cut their exports to us would they??

    Back in the 60's, one theory about JFK's assassination was that Fidel got tired of our "covert operatives" trying to kill him.  I'm not saying that is what happened, but wouldn't  GW understand that it is in the country's and his personal best interests to distance the government from Rev. Pat ASAP.  Then again, nothing has come from him in the past two days to indicate that this will happen.  

    By the way, wouldn't you think the FCC might be thinking about revoking his broadcast license?  After all, he has made terrorist threats against a head of state has he not?

    When the middle class is gone, who will support the Republicans in the manner to which they have grown accustomed?

    by keepinon on Wed Aug 24, 2005 at 01:17:50 PM PDT

  •  Curiously... (none)
    Perhaps the WH's tepid response to Robertson's comments is because Patty is your basic nutjob who thinks Planned Parenthood is endorsing bestiality and 9/11 is a result of God lowering his protection of the U.S.

    Do you think that a firmer approach might lend undue credibility to his statements?

  •  Karen Hughes (none)
    I think that Bush is obligated to respond since, contrary to the posturing of the State Department that Robertson is just an individual, he is an individual with a television show, and none other than Bush's new Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy, Karen Hughes, has appeared on that show.

    Barbara Lee, Democrat from Oakland, makes this point pretty forcefully.

  •  Plus... (none)
    ...just as Pat Robertson is a private citizen who can say what he wants (according to the official reply to the incident), so, too, can Bush, et al. condemn those remarks.  Freedom of speech, remember?
  •  The (none)
    same way the Bush White House and their friends in the media spent months demonizing Hugo Chavez, specifically:
         The Wall Street Journal
         The Weekly Standard
         Fox News

    It's official,The Saddamizing of Chavez has now begun.

  •  More attacks on Chavez? (none)
    Last night I went to a town meeting with my Replican congressman (Kolbe in Arizona).  In his introductory remarks he came down very hard on Hugo Chavez. He said something has to be done about this dangerous man.  Other topic were predictible - social security, illegal immigration, etc. (But no mention of Iraq until it came up from the audience.)  Is this happening in other Republican districts?  Are they getting us ready for the next invasion?
  • Close

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