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This might be a good thing, if done right.

Two key U.S. senators said on Friday they will open a bipartisan investigation into what they described as an "immense failure" of the government response to the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Sen. Susan Collins, a Maine Republican who heads the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, and Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut, the panel's top Democrat, said they plan to begin an oversight investigation next week when the full Senate returns from a summer recess.

No whitewashes. Find out who fucked up. Republicans, Democrats, I don't care. Anyone who screwed up should be tarred and feathered.

(Funny thing is, given the two names on this effort, I trust Collins to get at the truth more than I trust Lieberman.)

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:29 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Good for them. (none)
    And a FOIA request directed at FEMA would be nice.  
    •  (sorry) (none)
      the title came off sarcastically - "good for us" would be more accurate.  

      but I do think a FOIA request would be great to get to the heart of the communications and decision making at FEMA this week.  And DHS too.

      •  And don't stop at NOLA (none)
        Top to bottom, every State, every major city. How prepared are they for a terrorist strike or other emergency? What has hasn't been done? And Why?

        I did not receive $ from Ketchum, U.S. Department of Ed or HHS to write this---though I wish I had.

        by Volvo Liberal on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:47:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  This Congress is a the problem, not the solution (4.00)
          Bush's FEMA identified NOLA as a top tier problem in 2001, before 9/11. Congress is supposed to be the public accountability mechanism between elections, holding the executive branch accountable. Nothing was done, despite the warnings. Should we expect anything different from Lieberman. No! Should we expect anything from our elected representatives, of course. It's a failure of leadership in the Democratic Party that someone other than Lieberman is the "leader" in this effort. Democrats at every level should be raising serious questions about this, and not stop until their own homeland feels as sucre as out government should make us all feel.


          •  Some interest group should take this on (none)
            Release a definitive report about what has been done and what hasn't been done since 9/11...That is what they need...Maybe we should fundraise for it and bid the project out to a research group...Just a thought...

            I did not receive $ from Ketchum, U.S. Department of Ed or HHS to write this---though I wish I had.

            by Volvo Liberal on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:15:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Doomed with GOP Joe (none)
              GOP Joe will spend so much time kissing Bush that there is no way this will call out the incompetent political hacks at FEMA and Chertoff.  Just with Joe's name on the commission, you know from the start that he'll tiptoe around Bush.

              Total waste of time.

              Impeach Bush- then start rebuilding America

              •  pointless (none)
                it will be a total whitewash. what's the point? They will lie, and the Repubs will write the report, and it will be put in the committee report like it was true, and it will be used forever to justify what they did and didn't do. No one from the Deep South on the committee.  

                Be a Carville, not a Colmes

                by seesdifferent on Sat Sep 03, 2005 at 11:57:35 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  if only... (none)
              but the 911 commission is the new Warren commission, mostly whitewash, but not even that has been heeded by the people.

              Much less the un-refuted Conyers Report.

              We don't care. Or we didn't...maybe now.

              Hope springs blah blah blah.

              "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber." ~Plato

              by dj angst on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:32:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Excellent LTE subject. TAKE ACTION! (4.00)
          This is an excellent Letter-to-the-Editor opportunity: interesting angle to a topic under coverage, targeted to your local community.

          The few excellent points to make are:

          • as the Senate prepares to investige the disastrous FEMA response to Katrina... (good reminder to everybody about how bad this was);
          • our community/city/region needs to know what are the plans to helps us if a natural disaster or terrorist attack happens here;
          • Katrina was a natural disaster.
          But the thousands of deaths of people left behind underfunded levees, neither evacuated nor rescued, was a man-made disaster.

          Check (and bookmark) these tips to Write Letters to the Editors (in the Activism Toolkit on the right; the tips include a link to the Media Database to find local papers to target), and fire away!

          •  And letters to members of the (none)
            HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT MANAGEMENT, FINANCE, and ACCOUNTABILITY for hearings. It's time to hold Congress' feet to the fire on their lack of oversight, and giving the executive branch a free pass on their neo-feudal agenda.
          •  here's my LTE and to my senators and rep (none)
            I sent this out this morning, then encouraged others to  send one.

            This nice little add on is that my sister decided to FWD my letter to her friends and added one terrific point:

            President George W. Bush
            Senator Bill Frist
            Senator Lamar Alexander
            Represenative Lincoln Davis
            Chattanooga Times-Free Press


            I know you will pay no attention whatsoever to a constituent who did not vote for you, but nonetheless I feel compelled to express my outrage and anger and sense of helplessness and despair about the outright incompetence of the federal government to deal with a REAL disaster.

            The quote that best expresses what I feel came from a federal employee:

            Col. Terry Ebbert, director of homeland security for New Orleans, said that the whole recovery operation had been "carried on the backs of the little guys for four goddamn days," he said "the rest of the goddamn nation can't get us any resources for security."

            "We are like little birds with our mouths open and you don't have to be very smart to know where to drop the worm," Colonel Ebbert said. "It's criminal within the confines of the United States that within one hour of the hurricane they weren't force-feeding us. It's like FEMA has never been to a hurricane."

            I DEMAND an explanation and an investigation. What has the Department of Homeland Security been doing since its creation? We were supposed to be ready to deal with a terrorist attack. Well we had NOTICE that this attack was coming, and it's been a week since the scope of this was apparent to anyone with a computer or television watching Katrina build.

            The simplest needs are not being met. How is this possible? Coordinators of relief can't communicate? How is this possible? Not enough security? How is that possible? Not enough food and water? How is that possible?

            Fire Mike Brown. Fire Michael Chertoff. Find someone, ANYONE, who is competent and not a toady to the administration. Someone who will STOP making excuses and get those poor, desperate, grief-stricken people some basic help. This is no longer a natural disaster--it is now a full blown MANMADE disaster.

            The world is watching. But more importantly, the people of the United States are finally seeing who exactly theu voted into office to safeguard the common good.

            I am in such pain. I am so angry. And I am not alone.

            A concerned citizen,
            Donna Cunningham

            I sent this on to my sister and she forwarded to her friends and added a great point.

            My sister is a very passionate woman, and she makes some  very valid
            points in her attached letter.  I am going to write a similar letter to
            my reps, but I want to know if MY city is prepared should we come under
            attack, either manmade or natural.  We, the citizens of the US, should
            demand that our cities develop clear cut evacuation plans and all
            citizens should be educated on what to do in a time of crisis. Like the
            fire drills we had in school--they never frightened me because we
            learned that with such preparation, everyone would escape.  The loss of
            life in New Orleans could have been avoided.  We all deserve a better
            plan than "Everybody run for your lives!"  



          •  Thank you!!!!!! (none)
            Repub congresscritter just couldn't resist grabbing the front page. In light of everything, I have been stumped on a response to this!!!

            bush jams while thousands die in NOLA=Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

            by Street Kid on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 07:40:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  You got that right! (none)
          Hell, I have had to draft so many FOIA requests to appeal social service desions, it is becoming almost second nature.  And if I can draft a FOIA request and get the info needed to get results, anyone can!

          bush jams while thousands die in NOLA=Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

          by Street Kid on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 07:23:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  BUSH: THE END. Bumper Sticker. (none)
      All profts go to the Red Cross.

      35 sold! Total Donation so far= $70.00

      Get out of control, but appear under control. It's not bad to alarm other people, though - it's good for them.
      - Hunter S. Thompson

      by bisenbek on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:52:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  FOIA (none)
      Please tell me what good a FOIA request is when up against an Executive Order? From day one of bush 2001, the `seal presidential papers order' took effect and has not been lifted. He will not allow any sunshine just as he will not take any responsibility.
      There might have been a time for cooperation once upon a time but since congress has been taken over by the right wing cabal don't expect it any time soon.  

      "I'm not going to be your monkey"

      by gabie on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:12:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm sure Joe Lieberman (4.00)
      Will give the Same Answer on Katrina as he did On Iraq
      "Bottom Line,I think Bush has it Right"


      by ctkeith on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:47:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Collins and Lieberman? (4.00)
    We're f*cked.
    •  Ok, so which one is the Democrat? (4.00)
    •  Any Chance Lieberman is Pissed about (4.00)
      not getting the Homeland Security nod? I'm a huge Lieberman critic, but their might be a silver lining here.

      Not that Joe might not cut a deal at the very end. But I bet he is thinking that this was meant to be his chance to save the day.

      Only Bush screwed him over.

      New Orleans-- 72 hours later no communications, no drinking water, not enough police/troops. Bottomline, we're not prepared for another 9/11.

      by DeanFan84 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:46:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  NO Politicians! (none)
      Too many pols have incredibly bloody hands, in BOTH parties!

      If a REAL investigation is to be done, it should be someone like James Lee Witt, a former FEMA director that actually did something!

      From Wash Monthly.....
      "In 1992 the GAO recommended sweeping changes in FEMA's mission and organization, and the newly elected Bill Clinton took the GAO's recommendations seriously. The first thing he did was appoint as FEMA's director James Lee Witt, a former construction company owner who had worked with Clinton in Arkansas as director of the state Office of Emergency Services, where he earned high marks for his management of three presidential disaster declarations, including two major floods in 1990 and 1991."

      "But it was Hurricane Andrew, which hit Florida in 1992, that really energized FEMA. The year after that catastrophic storm, President Bill Clinton appointed James Lee Witt to be director of the agency. Witt was the first professional emergency manager to run the agency. Showing a serious regard for the cost of natural disasters in both economic impact and lives lost or disrupted, Witt reoriented FEMA from civil defense preparations to a focus on natural disaster preparedness and disaster mitigation. In an effort to reduce the repeated loss of property and lives every time a disaster struck, he started a disaster mitigation effort called "Project Impact." FEMA was elevated to a Cabinet-level agency, in recognition of its important responsibilities coordinating efforts across departmental and governmental lines.

      Witt fought for federal funding to support the new program. At its height, only $20 million was allocated to the national effort, but it worked wonders. One of the best examples of the impact the program had here in the central Puget Sound area and in western Washington state was in protecting people at the time of the Nisqually earthquake on Feb. 28, 2001. Homes had been retrofitted for earthquakes and schools were protected from high-impact structural hazards. Those involved with Project Impact thought it ironic that the day of that quake was also the day that the then-new president chose to announce that Project Impact would be discontinued."

    •  Remember Truman? (none)
      It all comes down to this......."The Buck Stops Here".     Do not expect this from our government, or two  muddled and wishy washy people like Collins and Lieberman to expose the scandalous failures of FEMA,Homeland Security, and all the rest.
  •  Scary (4.00)
    That I have more confidence in Collins doing the investigation than Lieberman.

    The City of New Orleans. 1718--2005.

    by Delaware Dem on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:27:16 PM PDT

    •  Not me. (none)
      Ive never been much a fan of Collins. I prefer Snowe (of the 2 gals from Maine). Collins always seemed to be Snowe-lite for the first few years, and I still dont feel I know her yet.

      Maybe this will be her watershed moment.

      Reigning Welterweight Female Piefighter since 1998

      by ablington on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:45:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  to say nothing of that annoying voice.... (none)
        as if that bit of superficiality mattered, but, I prefer Snowe as well.  Actually, they both annoy me, with Bush as president because they too often flirt with doing the right thing and then just go with party discipline.

        "For the Mardi Gras Neo-con domestic shock and awe.."--Rep. Major Owens

        by Cathy on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:20:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Also, Collins and Lieberman (4.00)
      Co sponsered the Intelligence Reform Act. Are they buddies?

      Reigning Welterweight Female Piefighter since 1998

      by ablington on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:49:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's a joke. (4.00)
      Not a funny one either. Way back when Rove made those remarks about terrorists and Democrats, I wrote to both of the Maine Senators asking them if they supported that kind of talk, being Republicans themselves.

      Six weeks later I got a non-reply snail mail letter from Snowe carefully sidestepping the entire issue and referring to Bush's call for cooperation in the Plame investigation! It had some BS in it about everybody supporting the war on terror and not minimizing anyone's contribution. In no way did she answer my question, do you agree with Rove's remarks, and is this what you stand for?

      Susan Collins never wrote back to me at all. Period. Nada. Not even an autoreply (and there never is one when you e-mail her).

      You can bet, though, that the next time they're up for election, I will receive a campaign solicitation from them implying that since we're all women from Maine, there's some kind of a tie there.

      Feh. This 'investigation' means nothing. If it manages to lay blame on anyone, it certainly won't be the Pretzelnitwit in the White House.

  •  Warm up the tar (none)
    I'm in a feathering mood..

    "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines" Steven Wright

    by wrights on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:27:57 PM PDT

  •  Joe LIEBERMAN? (4.00)
    (She says, as she smacks her forehead in despair....)

    "Lies, lies, lies, ye-ah... they're going to get you." --The Thompson Twins

    by modchick65 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:28:11 PM PDT

  •  If only I trusted anyone anymore (none)
    I don't trust Congress anymore either.

    I'm glad they're doing it -- but will they blame this Administration if they deserve it?

    "Getting on with my life means a life without my dear, sweet boy. I wish a little bike ride could help me get on with my life." Cindy Sheehan

    by Dunbar on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:28:38 PM PDT

  •  I'd like to think this won't be whitewashed (none)
    but I don't have much confidence.
  •  Uhh, Are We Sure This Isn't A Whitewash Yet? (none)
    ...I mean, maybe you are issuing orders when you say no whitewash.
    But it might be read with the tone of the whole as "Great! There will be no whitewash!"
    That's how it looked at first read, so I'm leaving the title.

    The "white point" has been set to presumed whitewash at this point, I'm afraid.

    Step outside of two-dimensional politics.

    by NewDirection on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:29:19 PM PDT

    •  I don't think the American people . . . (none)
      will tolerate a whitewash this time.

      I sense palpable angry.

      I hope I'm right.

      The media is angry--finally.

      by nyceve on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:34:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They Tolerated It With 9/11 (4.00)
        And Abu Ghraib, etcetera ad infinitum.
        Henry Kissinger got appointed to head the 9/11 investigation, for crying out loud.
        He got removed because of complaints in government, not outside of it.
        Most people no doubt didn't even realize.

        Step outside of two-dimensional politics.

        by NewDirection on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:42:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is a MAJOR difference here. (none)
          Americans can tolerate something that is unprovable because it is hidden behind "national security issues".

          That explains 9/11, Abu Ghraib, Iran-Contra, etc

          With Katrina, The paper trail of warnings about this catastrophe was out in the open and is available to regular people like us.

          There so no way they can hide behind "how could we have known this would happen" or "I could tell you but I would have to kill you" excuses.

          I think that this explains why we have seen the sudden growth of spines in the news media lately.

          Bush and friends are trying to fall back on their tried and true SOP but it isn't working this time.

          •  Plus this hits them (4.00)
            and it hits them HARD.

            Gas has gone up so much the stations just keep the guy on the ladder, and continously hand him the numbers. Heating oil is going to be unreal, natural gas is going to be horrible, and people ARE NOT going to spend money this Christmas. They won't have any to spend.

            They'll barely be able to eat.

            And that's not the poor -- that's what's left of the middle class. That's those that make $75k, $100k, or more, those that drive the nice cars, have the big McMansions, the designer clothes.

            They are NOT going to be happy.

            The POOR will be on the street. Or camping on the Mall in DC.

            This is like when Enron screwed over California, only this time it's the whole country.

            I just want to remind the rethugs -- there are a lot of guns in this country. A lot. And it's not a good idea to have cops not be able to feed their families or heat their houses.

            Revolutions have started over less.

            •  Did anybody notice... (none)
              ...almost all the states with runs on gasoline are red states?  In fact, at , you can see that, as of today, the nationwide average gas price is more than it is in California!  That's a first.  (Obviously California doesn't get gas through the New Orleans port or the gas pipelines coming from there.)
              •  Not all (none)
                Most of the Northeast has had huge jumps, we did. 80 cents in 2 days. 15 cents just since this morning. And we're not a red state.

                I haven't noticed any runs on gas, some lines though at stations where the prices were considerably cheaper.

                But I think we get most of our gas from the refineries in Philly, though I don't know how much oil they get from the pipelines that are down.

                •  None (none)
                  The Philly area refineries get a grand total of zero barrels of oil from pipelines.  It's brought in by tankers up the Delaware.

                  "Salvation for a race, nation or class must come from within. Freedom is never granted; it is won. Justice is never given; it is exacted." A. Phillip Randolph

                  by Savage on Sat Sep 03, 2005 at 04:23:58 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  They Will Be Wishin' (none)
              There's some kinda gun control laws out there,
              goddamnit! People are shootin' at us!!!
        •  Huge Difference (4.00)
          We were attacked on 9/11.

          We were abandoned on 8/29.

          -- E pur si muove.

          by asdfasdf on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:14:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  On this topic, has anyone seen video from the (none)
      convention center today? I heard a report that they'd received water, and that evacuation began from there, but it seems the reporters have been chased away. Where's Tony Zumbando(sp?)?
    •  Speaking of whitewash.... (none)
      I'm watching footage from earlier.  The footage while Bush was at a Salvation Army feeding table that they say is feeding people that have been choppered in (the only sign of hot food I've seen yet), and there is one thing that is hard to miss -

      All of the people there are white.

      He's hanging out, shaking hands and slapping backs, and every person that I see in the frame is white.  And this isn't a fly-by, they're showing this for quite some time.

      How is this even possible?

      Are they screening the refugees coming into this center like they do a Bush "town hall" meeting.  Or is it that they want to make sure that Bush's constituency is well taken care of?

      This is disgraceful.

      "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

      by Bcre8ve on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:58:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well I Saw One White Woman (none)
        Outside the Superdome I believe it was, in the stranded-people footage. She spoke to the camera.

        I think that we are falling into a bit of a trap, accidental or not, making this too much about race. The @$#)#@! racists need to look at this too and realize it could be them. They could have gone to the NO convention center for a #%)#)! gun show and been left to rot too.

        Step outside of two-dimensional politics.

        by NewDirection on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:07:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  He's in Mississippi (none)
        In a white area.  If you look at the Mississippi footage, almost everybody is white.  "White trash" maybe, but white.
  •  yeah (4.00)
    Lieberman is the last democrat you need.  And I say that entirely separately from the ideological concerns.  This guy was bending over backwards to put a happy face on just about every "advise and consent" role he's been in the last couple of years.  Anyone remember details?  

    Iraq: Civil war is bad because the kurds would declare independence, which would draw in Turkey, etc.

    by tunesmith on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:29:23 PM PDT

    •  Give Joe a chance.... (4.00)
      Methinks he might be PISSED OFF about this. For one thing, Homeland Security was meant to be his job.

      For another thing, he is a security freak, and underneath it all, he must be distressed at the lack of preparedness.

      Please don't troll-rate me. I detest Joe. But I think we should give him a chance on this one.

      New Orleans-- 72 hours later no communications, no drinking water, not enough police/troops. Bottomline, we're not prepared for another 9/11.

      by DeanFan84 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:48:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you are a bigger person than i am. (4.00)
        i hold grudges. and joe can bite me.

        i'm glad there are people like you to temper people like me, 'cause when i see this all i see is another ploy to take the wind out of our angered sails.

        Culture of life? More like Republican cesspool of violence.

        by vancookie on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:55:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Joe is about Joe, don't forget that... (none)
          I believe "W" had something on him. The Kiss at the SOTU speech was freaky. This might be a good chance for Joe to slap back, and weasel his way back into our good graces.

          New Orleans-- 72 hours later no communications, no drinking water, not enough police/troops. Bottomline, we're not prepared for another 9/11.

          by DeanFan84 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:58:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Precisely why (none)
        I loathe the thought of Lieberman having anything to do with it.  Show me two "security freaks" with any kind of position in Washington who give a DAMN about security.  They don't.  All they're interested in is lucrative contracts for their favorite "security"-related industries, and curtailing civil rights.
  •  And once they've been tarred and feathered... (none)
    ...they should lose their jobs. If it's the president, he should be impeached. If senators or congresscritters were involved in this grand exemplar of incompetence, they should be expelled immediately. And Mike Brown should be forced to go door-to-door through the entire city of New Orleans to apologize to every single person left alive who suffered as a result of FEMA's inaction, and anyone who wants to take a free punch at him should be allowed to do so, without fear of prosecution.

    Thwarting the forces of conservatism since 1978.

    by wiscmass on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:30:20 PM PDT

    •  My sentiments exactly... (none)
      ...where do I send the brass knuckles?

      Life is like a box of chocolates. It's just another casualty of the Elephant's foot.

      by Zergle on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:34:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Amen. (4.00)
      The day I start believing that any of these investigations are worth a damn, is the day some of these jerkoffs lose their jobs. Investigations come and go, and no one gets fired. Ever. I want to see pink slips. I want to see heads rolling. I want to see frog-marches!

      Culture of life? More like Republican cesspool of violence.

      by vancookie on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:58:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hey Great (4.00)
    Now all we need is an independent investigation to investigate the investigation -- and we should be all set.
  •  good (none)
    This is very good news.
    •  this 1 Pro-Joe comment made me laugh (none)
      sorry. This is a pretty serious thread. and although I thought that a majority would distrust Joe, I was kinda surprised that, judging by the comments, he's 99% untrusted. It sorta makes sense. Then, when I saw this comment, I don't know. I just had to laugh.

      "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

      by bejammin075 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 07:43:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Operation Smear the Locals (4.00)
    Sorry, I'm jaundiced, cynical and can't trust this, just now.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:31:32 PM PDT

  •  can someone correct me on this? (4.00)
    Didn't Bush declare New Orleans a federal disaster area the day before the hurricane hit? Doesn't that mean that control of New Orleans was now in hands of the federal government, not the local government?

    What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

    by slinkerwink on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:31:54 PM PDT

    •  I don't know... (none)
      but I'm tired of listening to the blame going on local city gov't when the infrastructure of the city is essentially wiped out.  No phone, no water, ....

      How the heck can you expect the local gov't to respond like that?!

      •  yes, but didn't the (none)
        city have 48 hours warning advance about the storm? Whose responsibility is it to move the people out? That's what I don't know.

        What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

        by slinkerwink on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:56:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How much was the cry wolf syndrome (none)
          with people not heeding gov't advice?

          How much was that the only way to evacuate was to GET IN YOUR CAR and drive a PREDETERMINED route?  (Yes failure of local gov't plan here)

          What if you don't own a car?  Or can't afford to go anywhere?

          But the thing that pisses me off most...


          I saw for the next disaster we have the FEMA managers arrange the concert and let the concert organizer take care of the disaster relief efforts.

  •  Kos, I rarely disagree but. . . (4.00)
    Tar and feathered doesn't work for me.

    This is genocide.

    Anyone found responsible must be indicted for these crimes.

    Let's get this entire disaster into a court for the world to see and evaluate.

    Nothing less will satisfy me and I suspect most  of the American people.

    by nyceve on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:32:21 PM PDT

  •  Oh yeah, no whitewashing. (none)
    Just like the 9/11 investigation.  Any examination of the administration's failures will be put off until after the next election, and then dropped entirely.
    There will be more Goddamned whitewashing than Hannibal's Tom Sawyer festival.

    It isn't a crime to be poor. But they're working on it.

    by jazzmaniac on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:32:49 PM PDT

  •  Stopped at the Border (none)
    There was a post somewhere in the Blogverse that mentioned that the Canadian DART team was stopped on the US Border yesterday.

    Does anyone have a link to that post or the actual story?


  •  How sad is it... (none)
    That I agree, and I trust Collins more than Lieberman? That man is an embarrassment of a senator.
  •  Well, it wont just be them will it?? (none)
    I mean it will be the whole committee askign questions right?? Or do I have something wrong?? They are mentioning them because they are the top two senators on the committee.

    Apparently for Mitt Romney, life doesnt begin at conception or at birth, it begins when you decide to run for president. -Jon Stewart

    by jj32 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:33:37 PM PDT

  •  So (4.00)
    who will be the scapegoats?

    I have absolutely zero confidence that Congress will hold a proper investigation.  

    Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

    by johnny rotten on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:33:55 PM PDT

    •  Scapegoats = democrats in Louisiana (4.00)

      The beneficiaries are likely to be...large corporations and development firms. (O'Connor, J. dissenting in Kelo). God bless you, J. O'Connor.

      by xanthe on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:36:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Except this time we have over 72 hours of (none)
        cable news coverage with pleas for aid and leadership from all of the Gulf Coast states elected officals.

        Also remember, it wasn't that the hurricane was totally devastating, but the levee breaks directly after.  

        Most Americans are a lot dumber than we give them credit for- George Carlin 2004

        by maggiemae on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:58:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Mayor should be responsible for (3.00)
      lack of water and facilites in the shelters. It is his city after all.

      But Bush and Co. should be held responsible for the bigger failures, 1) the funding for the Levies, which was cut, and 2) the lack of troops/guardsman in the city within 24 hours of the levie breaking.

      New Orleans-- 72 hours later no communications, no drinking water, not enough police/troops. Bottomline, we're not prepared for another 9/11.

      by DeanFan84 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:52:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  FEMA (none)
      If there's not a new FEMA director next month, I'd be very surprised.
  •  If something as important as the 9-11 (none)
    commission was a whitewash, this will be too. Even with the 9-11 commission apparently under a microscope, it was a white wash.

    "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

    by bejammin075 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:34:02 PM PDT

  •  Outrage - Red Cross not allowed in to help (none)
    in New Orleans -- this is unbelievable -- people are dying and Red Cross is not allowed in - this is criminal.

    Please read Jeremy in NYC's blog about the latest outrage and recommend -- this should be on the front page

    Acess [sic] to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders. The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

    "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." (Charles Schultz)

    by sara seattle on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:34:53 PM PDT

  •  Members of the Black Caucus (4.00)
    should start their own investigation.  Lieberman ain't gonna create waves - gimme a break --

    The beneficiaries are likely to be...large corporations and development firms. (O'Connor, J. dissenting in Kelo). God bless you, J. O'Connor.

    by xanthe on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:35:12 PM PDT

    •  Whiny Joe will complain more that Dems ... (none)
      ... "failed" to have a detailed levee-restoration plan with extensive, expensive research attached that would never have got to the floor anyway thanks to the Party Line Republican Borg.

      Plus, he knows that Bush did all he could and now isn't a time to point fingers.

  •  At least... (none)
    this investigation, so far, has not run into a wall of administration stone-walling.

    "The American people will trust the Democratic Party to defend America when they believe that Democrats will defend other Democrats." Wesley Clark

    by stumpy on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:35:34 PM PDT

  •  New England (4.00)
    Two New England Senators? Great, that will go over well.
  •  I was thinking.... (none)
    on my motorcycle ride home (in an effort to save gas on my 45 minute commute to work I now ride a motorcycle) that there should be an investigation now.....congress should be back in session now...forget the vacation.

    But honestly I trust so few in Congress....there should be outrage, but I know we'll have carefully parsed statements that in the end say nothing.

    Only the people of the United States - a concept that Bushco as rejected and instead chosen a seemingly loser Federation of Independant States - can fix this with a massive uprising.

    •  Do you ever think about (none)
      just halling ass in between the lanes? Besides the gas efficiency, you probably can get around pretty good. Just curious.

      "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

      by bejammin075 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 07:53:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  But isn't Collins (none)
    on the Homeland Security committee?  Considering how badly DHS effed up, should Collins recuse herself?

    Don't get me wrong, I trust her more than Lieberman too, but I'm just saying.

    If you like this comment, please visit It Affects You

    by up2date on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:36:13 PM PDT

  •  Why none of the affected senators? (none)
    Ideological considerations aside, you'd think people from Louisiana and Mississippi would look to their own senators to demand accountability from the federal government. Will they trust a couple of northeasterners to tell them what happened?

    Those who cannot remember the future are condemned to repeat it.

    by Abou Ben Adhem on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:36:14 PM PDT

    •  Because state officials fell short too (none)
      Landrieu made photo-ops, Blanco called for prayer, Barbour made excuses for missing Guard and issued a delayed evac order.  The others were uninvolved.  Nobody brought in clean water, arranged transport out, or found locations to put people.  A friend of mine said "why didn't they delay schools and use all the school buses in LA to evacuate to the schools temporarily while they figured it out?"  Why, indeed.  
  •  great minds stink alike (none)
    (Funny thing is, given the two names on this effort, I trust Collins to get at the truth more than I trust Lieberman.)
    I was clicking to post something snarky like this even before I read this last line of your diary.

    This debacle exposes the hollow lies and promises of the Bush wealth giveaway for the make-the-rich-richer scam it has always been. The lame, pitiless reactions from the Bush Admin officials (Cheney still on vacation, Condi taking Manhattan, Bush pickin' and grinnin' with his C&W homies) exposes their lack of compassion and decency.

    Many Americans, sheeple that they are, will awaken and see the light here. It's really over for the Bush crime syndicate. Nov. 2006 can't get here soon enough. We're gonna crush these little bastards at last and send them packing.

    The road to hell is paved with Republicans!

    by vinluvr on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:39:55 PM PDT

  •  Here's who fucked up: (4.00)
    (In the order that the fucking took place)

    1. Bush and Congress, for not finishing the leeves.
    2. The Mayor of New Orleans, for not busing every poor resident out of the city prior to the hurricane hitting using city and school buses (there's a pic on Yahoo somewhere of a flooded school bus yard with hundreds of buses in it that could have been used easily).
    3. Bush and his band of incompetents at FEMA for being painfully slow at the delivery of aid and transportation of people out of the area.
    4. The hoodlums in the city of New Orleans itself, for shooting at group #3 and scaring them away.
    •  To be totally fair (none)
      I think #3s to get a little #4 for the way they handled this. And from the way #2 sounded this morning, he might just freak out and #4 on #1 and a couple of #3s while he's at it.
      Either way, besides #1, if I were #2 or #3, I'd be taking a #2 in my pants right now over whether I'd be getting fired pretty soon. Might have to join #4 just to pay the rent.
    •  Got to disagree with #2 (none)
      One picture of a bunch of flooded school buses doesn't mean that it was in any conceivable way possible to organize a mass exodus of non-mobile citizens of New Orleans.  They estimate 100,000 or so staying in town.  How many buses is that?  

      At 50 people per bus, it would take 2000 (at least) buses to transport all of those people.  

      •  That pic showed at least a thousand school buses (none)
        How many school buses (and city buses, for that matter) are in use in a city of a half million people?  At least two thousand.  Now, they wouldn't get all of the people out-maybe half of those that remained.  But that would mean the problem would be half as bad as it is right now.  Who knows.

        The point is that this wasn't even fucking tried.  If you did not own a car, you were FUCKED and had to stay.

        •  Forget the buses,,, the shelters should have (none)
          had porta-potties and plenty of water.

          The worst case happened, and the shelters were a disgrace.

          New Orleans-- 72 hours later no communications, no drinking water, not enough police/troops. Bottomline, we're not prepared for another 9/11.

          by DeanFan84 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:01:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  maybe a good theory (none)
          but I just have to think that it would take an almost impossible amount of coordination and timing to pull it off.

          How long would it take to get the word out, load each bus, and get out of the city?  

          Maybe somebody will do a feasibility study on it - it would be interesting to see how it could possibly work.

          But, I don't think we should blame Nagin for not having something like that in place.  

          •  Getting word out already happened (none)
            If I was mayor, I would announce:

            "Go to the parking lot of the Superdome to board a bus out of the city."

            The actual mayor announced:

            "Go to the Superdome to wait out the storm."

            The number of people who got on the buses would probably be equal to the number of people who were in the Superdome during the storm itself-if not greater (I can see the logic of staying home if your only other choice was a sports arena across town).

            As for the logistics, it would be difficult but possible.  How hard would it be to make two calls: One to the city bus company, one to the school district: Bring all your buses to the Superdome parking lot.

            As for them leaving, everybody with a car got out.  They would make that traffic jam .001% larger.

            •  that's not true (none)
              I've seen a bunch of interviews done with people who had cars - but felt that they wouldn't make it out because of how backed up the traffic was.
              •  Some may have believed that (none)
                But, AFAIK, everybody who started the journey made it out.

                Others were too "macho" to evacuate.  This would not have gotten everybody out.  But it would have gotten several thousand, maybe several tens of thousands, people out.

                •  School Bus in Action (none)
                  The Houston Chronicle ran a great story about a guy who wanted out of the chaos of N.O. He decided to take one of the school buses. The cops told him to go ahead and get out of town.

                  On the way out of New Orleans he picked up 50 to 70 refugees he spotted on the streets. This guy - who never drove a bus before - drove them safely to Houston. Along the way they pooled what little money they had to buy gas several times and some food and diapers.  

                  Great story. You can read it online here -

                  So if one guy could do it, imagine what could have been accompished with all those buses in that picture.  

                  Oh yeah. Here's the best part - they were the first busload of people to arrive at the Astrodome. Unfortunately they were met by the usual moronic bureaucrats who refused to let them enter because they weren't part of the "official convoy" or some such shit.  After making them wait in the parking lot for about half an hour the Red Cross changed their minds and let them into the 'dome.

                  Just goes to show. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. In this case a hero who helped save 70 lives was met by a self-important prick who put paper plans before human lives.

      •  Bullshit... (none)
        ...they move 50,000 school kids twice a day in New Orleans during the school year.

        I blame local/state Gov. AND FEMA for that fuck up.


        Mitch Gore

        Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

        by Lestatdelc on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:58:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  there's barely 50,000 students total (none)
          I find your comment hard to believe.  Where did you get your figures?

          Jefferson Parish only has 58,000 students at 87 elementary, middle, and high schools.

          Are you saying that 86% of all students in New Orleans ride school buses?  I find that hard to believe.

          •  Who cares exactly how many buses there were (none)
            The number is greater than zero, which was the number of them used to transport the poor out of the city.
            •  Here's the pic (none)
              Found it at Freerepublic (ick), believe it or not.

              •  quick count - maybe 150 (none)
                I just did a rough count.  There may be up to 150 buses in the picture.  

                Imagine you finding it at freerepublic - they're going to be posting as many pictures as they can to try to make the case that it isn't the Bush administration's fault.

                •  That's probably about right (none)
                  However, it's clear that photo isn't the entire bus yard.  Nor does it prevent there from being other bus yards for school buses.  Or city buses.  Or charter buses.  Or Greyhounds.

                  150 buses times 50 people each is 7,500 people NOT in the Superdome right now.  That is probably a dozen or more people not dead right now (weak, the young, the sick, the shot at, whatever).

                  Look, don't argue against this position.  This is something obvious that was not done by city government, and they deserve a world of shit for it.

                  •  it's just a what if (none)
                    I'm not arguing against it in theory.

                    I'm saying that I don't believe it would have been as easy as you think.  

                    There's a big difference there.  I like to think that I'm adhering to the reality-based community viewpoint.  

          •  Try the correct parish (none)


            Mitch Gore

            Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

            by Lestatdelc on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:24:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  BTW... (none)
            in Orleans parish alone there are 70,246 students in 128 schools.

            Also given the demographics, you will see far more rider-ship of buses because of lower car ownership.


            Mitch Gore

            Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

            by Lestatdelc on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:28:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  OK - Orleans Parish (none)
              My bad.  You're still making shit up out of thin air.  It's really easy to make your argument when you don't have to base it on facts.

              Kind of reminds me of a certain administration, come to think of it.

              •  Not at all... (none)
                look at those numbers

                even if only 50% bus ridership took place which is not that case in Orleans parish.. that is moving 35,000 people twice a day.

                Not making anything up much less shit, out of thin air.

                ...but please continue to keep your head up your butt, jackass.


                Mitch Gore

                Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                by Lestatdelc on Sat Sep 03, 2005 at 06:20:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  your numbers are out of thin air (none)
                  and you accus me of having my head up my ass.

                  fortunately, no one could accuse you of having your head up your ass when you apparently have the ability to conjure shit out of thin air.

      •  Ya Know They (none)
        Was just niggahs, Nobody don't give a shit they no good anyway....
    •  Buses (none)
      Where would the mayor bus them too exactly ? that would require state help to shelter them.

      I think he could have done a better job with dome/convention center fascilities (with state aid - i cant imagine cities carry inventory of MRE's water etc on this scale), but he simply doesnt have the resources for a mass evacuation. Not even enough cops to go house to house getting people to board the buses.

      As usual, this was a case of happy planning and hoping for the best, only as usual that didnt occur and everything flowed from there.

      Blanco needs a fair amount of blame for pre-storm planning and preparation, but ultimately, once that levee broke, only the Feds have enough resources for this kind of operation and they were woeful and negligent.

      •  To a Red Cross shelter upstate? (none)
        To fucking Disney World?  Who gives a shit?

        Anywhere > The Superdome right now

        •  Oh, and there would be no house to house stuff (none)
          Thousands made it to the Superbowl-they just would have got on buses instead going inside.
        •  Well (none)
          The superdome was fine as long as the levee held. Folks would have rode out the storm and then could have gone home - since most homes were ok until the massive flooding.

          Once that levee broke, it required more than any city mayor could deliver.

          Not sure any mayor in the country could have organized semi permanent shelter for 100,000 people in about 36 hours.

          There should have been a disaster evacuation plan for massive numbers of people. We were led to believe that is what the home land security was planning and capable of in case of a massive terrorist plan. There wasn't. 9/11 changed nothing.

    •  #3 was the worst by far (none)
      The fact that our Government can't or won't protect us is the biggest fuckup imo. The others are all conceivable, even though they're inexcuseable (though I'm not sure I agree with #2.) There's a difference between the Government making a mistake, as in #1 and #2, and the Government not doing anything after the fact, as happened in #3. I can't say that I'm entirely surprised that our Government failed the people of the Gulf Coast, but I still find it absolutely shocking. It's a definite low point in the history of our Government and probably the lowest in my lifetime.

      Democrats -- Progress for the Working Class

      by rogun on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:45:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It was a perfect storm (none)
        To use a tortured but appropiate term.  #2 and #3 and #4 wouldn't be issues at all if #1 was done properly.  #3 and #4 would be less of an issue if #2 was done properly.  #4 would not have happened if #3 was done quicker.  This particular mess required all of the above to be this bad.

        It's like the 2000 election.  Gore lost not because of Nader, and not because of the butterfly ballot, and not because of the disenfranchment of blacks via the felon list, and not because of the Supreme Court ruling, and not because he ran a shitastic campaign, but because of all of the above.

        Plane crashes are like this too.  Frequently, you need multiple, near simitaneous screw ups or failures for a plane to crash.

        •  In a systemic way, yes. (none)
          I may have been off topic a little, but I was making individual comparisons. While I agree with everything you've said, I also think #3 was the most disgusting and awful of the bunch. You can say that we wouldn't be in that situation if not for some of the others, which would make them more important analytically. But the others do not explain the utter lack of action after the event, which is beyond inexcuseable.

          Democrats -- Progress for the Working Class

          by rogun on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 07:22:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  One other thing (none)
            The "Perfect Storm" analogy works in a comprehensive explanation, but it doesn't work when explaining the lack of action in #3. It's important to remember this because we'll be hearing this administration try to make it work anyway, so that they can use it as an excuse. They can make excuses for why they were not ready before the storm hit, but there are absolutely no sensible excuses for their lack of action in the days afterwards.

            Democrats -- Progress for the Working Class

            by rogun on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 07:29:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  The mayor from the beginning (none)
      was in contact with the governor and federal authorities and was likely told a line of bullshit like we have been told. If they would have advised him that a week would pass with no help, i have no doubt he would have acted otherwise.
    •  About the buses (none)
      Buses could have been used to get people out of the city only if a plan had been put in place well in advance.  (For starters, who's would drive the buses?  The school bus drivers would be busy evacuating their own families.)  Federal, state, and local officials planned for a disaster like Katrina during the Hurricane Pam simulation in July 2004.

      FEMA's press release after the simulation talks about search and rescue, but says nothing about evacuation.

      This LSU story contains the following information:

      From the simulation, officials estimate that a storm like Hurricane Pam would:

          * cause flooding that would leave 300,000 people trapped in New Orleans, many of whom would not have private transportation for evacuation;
          * send evacuees to 1,000 shelters, which would likely remain open for 100 days;
          * require the transfer of patients from hospitals in harm's way to hospitals in other parts of the state;
          * trigger outbreaks of tetanus, influenza, and other diseases likely to be present after a storm;
          * create 30 million cubic yards of debris and 237,000 cubic yards of household hazardous waste.

      As a result of the Hurricane Pam Exercise, agencies are in the process of applying what they learned to their emergency response plans. Those changes include:

          * assisting people without transportation - the American Red Cross is developing a program that would ask private citizens to collect people at area churches and transport them.
          * identifying more than 700 shelters and planning the locations for the remaining sites.
          * outlining patient movement details and determining how to set in motion existing immunization plans.
          * establishing a command structure that would employ up to 800 searchers.
          * identifying existing landfills capable of accepting hazardous waste and outlining debris removal plans.

      One important result of the exercise was the understanding among agencies at all levels of the seriousness of such an event. "A White House staffer was briefed on the exercise," said van Heerden. "There is now a far greater awareness in the federal government about the consequences of storm surges."

      Soon, agencies will have even more storm data to utilize in their response plans.

      "A second Hurricane Pam Exercise is planned for this summer," said van Heerden. "Agencies will be able to expand on aspects of response and recovery that were not explored before."

      This story suggests that there was no plan to evacuate people unable to evacuate themselves--as of July 2004, the Red Cross was developing a plan for private citizens to transport people who did not own their own cars!  Instead, the planning exercise assumed that perhaps 300,000 people would be left trapped in the city.  

      No doubt the evacuation issue was addressed more directly during the Pam exercise, and it would be good to get that information.  (Unfortunately, the search function at the FEMA web site doesn't seem to be working.)  Clearly, however, the blame for failing to use buses to evacuate people lies in lack of planning by persons at all levels of government.  And I think that the primary blame has to lie with FEMA, who should be the experts advising local and state governments on emergency planning.

  •  LIEBERMAN???? LMAO (4.00)
    That is just too funny.

    It's kind of like putting Orrin Hatch in charge of the "Legalize Man-On-Horse Porn" commission.  

    Could they any more obviously stack a committee to produce a non-response response?

    Boy, the insults to the black community are piling up thicker and thicker these days.  Sigh. . .but what else is new?

    •  Or putting (none)
      Ted Kennedy and Laura Bush on a bipartisan "safe driving committee."  (Sorry if it's in bad taste, I'm slightly drunk and don't know better)

      "But the people of America have spoken, and they're saying they want four more years of Douchebag!!" -Family Guy Movie

      by BlueEngineerInOhio on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 09:33:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Whom to trust (none)
    (Funny thing is, given the two names on this effort, I trust Collins to get at the truth more than I trust Lieberman.)

    Well, Collins is less fond of kissing the President (either end).

    "We can win elections only by standing up for what we believe." --Howard Dean

    by Jim in Chicago on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:43:22 PM PDT

  •  The Wizard of Oz (none)
    Katrina pulled back the curtain and showed us all the wizened little fake that is our federal government.

    I don't care who finds out why it came down like this, or what political stripe the culprits wear.  I just want to make sure it never happens again.

  •  And don't stop at NOLA (none)
    Do a goddam investigation into what the fuck the real status of our homeland security and emergency preparedness is....ALL OF IT. Every state, every city, every town (Hmmmm...that sounds like a good project for a progressive organization....)

    Now THAT would be investigation worth doing....

    I did not receive $ from Ketchum, U.S. Department of Ed or HHS to write this---though I wish I had.

    by Volvo Liberal on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:43:57 PM PDT

  •  Well looky there (none)
    Somebody decided to dust off those brass balls sitting the cabinet all this long time. You just get them all squeaky clean shiny and join the rest of the Democrats in the real world when you feel you're ready Mr. Lieberman.

    No, no. Take your time.

  •  Lehrer show on PBS (none)
    David Brooks of all people is hammering away and, while lesser than Oliphant, he is basically saying he expects to see the end of the conservatives (my words not his but that is the message).

    "We have the power. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we've decided to use it." Posted by Jeremey*in*MS at February 3, 2005 01:59 PM

    by Andrew C White on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:44:44 PM PDT

    •  Oliphant and Brooks and Page (none)
      are all saying that Government failed. They are cutting now slack. Government failed. Brooks calling it the "anti-9/11".

      "We have the power. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we've decided to use it." Posted by Jeremey*in*MS at February 3, 2005 01:59 PM

      by Andrew C White on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:46:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Brooks just panned Bush (none)
        said that looking at him up in the airplane or the last three days of doing nothing that he was angry at him and understood how Shields must feel all the time.

        Oliphant not letting Democrats off the hook either.

        "We have the power. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we've decided to use it." Posted by Jeremey*in*MS at February 3, 2005 01:59 PM

        by Andrew C White on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:48:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Brooks' voice was shaking (none)
          with righteous indignation, just as it does when he is (normally) defending Bush.  It's clear that this week really got to him.

          You're walking, and you don't always realize it, but you're always falling. --- Laurie Anderson

          by baggy on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:25:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Did Joe promise not to ask any real questions? (none)
    There will be a thorough investigation of why New Orleans allowed poor people to live in the downtown area.

    Citizens will be blamed.

    The North Dakota National Guard WILL be held accountable.

    "If being wrong's a crime I'm serving forever" P. Westerburg

    by mungley on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:44:47 PM PDT

    •  Correction, please. (none)
      To get the true Neocon spirit, you will have to remove the last four words of your first sentence under the title, from "in" to "area."

      You might replace them with "...anywhere at all."

      But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

      by sagesource on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:53:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Operation Smokescreen is Underway (none)
    Up at right now:

    "For failing to evacuate New Orleans until the last minute - despite the clear warning signals and a danger many times greater than in any other coastal American city - history will remember the hapless duo of C. Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco - and not kindly."

    I love it when they try to have it both ways - give Bush a pass on "no one could imagine this outcome" while blaming the Dems for ignoring clear warning signals.

    It would almost be funny if it wasn't likely that the death toll could be 10,000 or more of our fellow Americans.

    •  Well, he's not totally wrong (none)
      Bush (and the Republican Congress) fucked up the prevention stage (building leeves) and Bush's FEMA fucked up the aftermath, but the lack of buses to take the poor out of the city just prior to the hurricane was a local issue.  I blame Nagin mainly.  How fucking hard would it be to have city and school buses bus everybody out?  There would still be people left behind (either by choice or happenstance), but not these huge groups of them.
      •  it would be pretty fucking hard (none)
        To get 100,000 people on school buses in 24 hours.

        Assuming you had 2,000+ buses at your disposal how long do you think an operation like that would have taken, once the decision was made to evacuate?

        It's an easy thing to say, but damn near impossible to do.

        •  It should have at least been tried (none)
          If you did not have a car, you could not leave the city.

          Trains could also have been used (although that would require coordination with Amtrak and the Feds).

          •  Let's not re-write history... (4.00)
            Nagin got them out of the storm which was his responsibility.  He got them into the dome. If the feds had done their job properly, after the storm, the people in the dome would have had food, water and a further rescue.

            What went wrong was that for 5 days no one came. The president was on vacation, the Fema chief is a stupid dork, Condi was buying shoes, and Cheney is hunting in the Canadian wilderness. If Bush and his cabinet had acted immediately, the people in the dome wouldn't have been a problem.

            If the National Guard weren't bogged down in Iraq with their equipment, the people in the dome wouldn't have been a problem.

            Nagin was lied to. He was awaiting the cavalry and it never came.

            •  I'm not not blaming Bush (none)
              Far, far from it.  It would have been a much better idea to get them out of the city.  It also created a disgusting and racist double standard.  The mayor basically told people-If you can afford a car, evacuate the city.  If you can't, stay put and rot.

              This doesn't mean that the Feds shouldn't have got them out by now.  Neither group did thier job.  That's all I'm saying.

              If there was not a chance for massive flooding after the storm, this would have been a bit less of an issue.

              •  that's not what happened... (none)
                sorry but Nagin put them in a building that would withstand the hurricance, which it did. He beieved that if there was flooding, the feds would be there to bail everyone out. They said they would be and then they weren't.

                They lied.

      •  Nagin had nowhere to take them (none)
        He could put them on buses but had noplace to take them to  And you have to have it - you can't stay on a bus anywhere near a hurricane.  Should have been arranged in advance, but that would have required at least Governor Blanco.  Nagin couldn't do it.
      •  This is hindsight thinking (none)
        They issued an order for everyone to leave. 90% or so did. That is actually a good number. The city did not have the resources to coordinate and move everyone out. The city knew that. They told FEMA beforehand. The government (should have) known that everyone was not out. Brown saying that he was unaware of the convention center was grounds for firing on the spot.

        Hurricanes are a way of life on the coast. People have lived through many of them. The fact that most people left was about as good as you are going to get. I can't believe people would think that once the call came out the a hurricane was coming, that everyone would march Hitler-like to the orders of government. My granddad, who lived in a trailer-home in Tampa, used to drive around in hurricanes for fun.

        But most models called for at least 100,000 people still being in the city. Whether it was from not owning a car, or being a Spanish Parliament member, people got stuck there. It is simple logic that with a city of a million, a good 10% won't move in 24 hours for one reason or another.

        Most did leave, and of the few that didn't, they listened to the government that said go the Superdome and the convention center. They did. The  government knows they are there. It's been almost a week and while we ignore foreign requests for support, many are still there.

        It is sickening.

        •  They ordered people to leave... (none)
          ...and then, by not providing buses, prevented them from doing so.  Were they supposed to walk?
          •  do you not get it? (none)
            Nagin's job was to help his city survive the hurricance. He was evacuating people from their houses lest they collapse from the storm. The ones the couldn't leave the city to shelter somewhere else, were given shelter from the storm.People in New Orleans mostly survived the storm.

            The problem in NO right now isn't the hurricane but the flooding from the levees.  That is where the feds where supposed to come in but didn't.

            I'm not saying Nagin is above reproach but the massive failure is the dorks at Fema and the Bush cabinet who strummed guitar, shopped and hunted while the city filled up with water.


  •  Joe Lieberman panel's top Democrat? (none)
    God help us ....

    It will be another Whitewash!

  •  NO NO NO NO!!! (none)
    bangs his head on the table

    This is going to be another "blame the lower ranks," I can guarantee it RIGHT NOW.

    What needs to be investigated is to investigate why the levee broke in the first place, why the hurricaine response funding was gone, why the Army Corps of Engineers had no funding to work on the levee, and THEN why the response was insufficient!

    The way they're setting up, they're going to get away with it AGAIN.

    Okay, so I'm a little rabid.

    Searching for Truth, Justice, and the Guy Who Boosted My Wallet a Few Weeks Back...

    by Stealthbadger on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:48:16 PM PDT

    •  No, not this time. (none)
      The media is all over the Feds on this one. Even right wing media like David Brooks.

      "We have the power. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we've decided to use it." Posted by Jeremey*in*MS at February 3, 2005 01:59 PM

      by Andrew C White on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:50:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I hope so. (none)
        But you have seen the interviews, people are still stuck in "praising everyone for doing such a good job" mode.  And to tell the truth, since it's not in the state of Connecticut, I wouldn't trust Lieberman to not become a total political animal if you paid me.

        There is one interesting poing.  The one time the media has been good at forestalling a coverup, they had inside help.  Let's hope every single whistleblower who's kept zipped lips out of fear decides to come forth and sing.

        Searching for Truth, Justice, and the Guy Who Boosted My Wallet a Few Weeks Back...

        by Stealthbadger on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:54:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  er, point, not poing. (none)

          Searching for Truth, Justice, and the Guy Who Boosted My Wallet a Few Weeks Back...

          by Stealthbadger on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:54:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  CNN - Paula Zahn lead in (none)
            Bush saying the convention center is "secure"

            Moments later CNN - Paula Zahn going to Barbara Starr at the Convention Center saying that it is "anything BUT secure" and that the National Guard are going in. She sounded scared and saying that there was serious fear of unrest.

            This has been a complete failure of government. The only one's defending are "dead-enders,"... last gaspers of the freeper right.

            The right wing is going down. We the people of the United States of America will not allow these people to stand any longer.

            George Bush and Dick Cheney must resign.

            Nothing else will suffice.

            Bush and Cheney and their entire government must be forced to resign. The people of this nation have no confidence in this government.

            For good reason.

            "We have the power. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we've decided to use it." Posted by Jeremey*in*MS at February 3, 2005 01:59 PM

            by Andrew C White on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:06:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Lieberman and a Republican (4.00)
       I don't get it -- how is this bipartisan?
  •  It would be great (none)
    if all of the Senate's true Republicans, such as Collins, Hagel, McCain, Lieberman, Biden, Ben Nelson, could join true Democrats such as Feingold, Leahy and Boxer, and actually expose the problems behind the atrocious non-reaction of the federal govt. without fear of Dear Leader's wrath. They will need to band together as the Radical Near-Fascist Corporatist Party members such as Frist, Brownback, Inhofe and the administration, will do all they can to keep the truth from getting out and punish those who speak out against Dear Leader..

    That we are to stand by the president, right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. ~Teddy Roosevelt

    by assyrian64 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:49:08 PM PDT

  •  LIEberman on this panel is like having (4.00)
    the head of the KKK head-up the NAACP.  

    LIEberman is a joke, a fraud, and a pitiful excuse for a Senator.  

    When was the last time LIEberman sided with the Democrats on anything?

    The Moral Majority is neither.

    by Barbara H on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:51:27 PM PDT

  •  CYA Whitewash (none)


    Mitch Gore

    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

    by Lestatdelc on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 04:54:17 PM PDT

    •  Lieberman is Useless (none)
      He is a terrible representative.

      He is a completely political animal and he will, first and foremost, protect his own position within the Senate.

      Remember -

      He stumped heavily for the Weapons of Mass Destruction rationale to justify the invasion of Iraq in the days after 9/11.

      Also, the people who work in his offices are abrasive, unpleasant, and deliberately unhelpful.

      I consider him a Republican mole in the Democratic Party.

  •  Call Me A Cynic... (none)
    But, I'm skeptical about this, frankly. I think they are going to attempt to blame this on Blanco and Nagin. The blame belongs to Congress and the Bush administration. When the GOP starts talking "accountability" it's suspicious to begin with, but when their media reps (Lou Dobbs, Tim Russert) start saying things like "local, state and federal" accountability, I hear "LOCAL" loud and clear...

    Color me cynical.

  •  what should be done (none)
    Senate Democrats need to lead and the only way to do it is force the Republicans into action.  Rally the American people to hold these idiots to account.  

    Until this mess is fixed, and these idiots are held accountable nothing gets through.  For example.

    No John Roberts hearings.  Instead hearings into FEMA incompentance.  Hold hearings for DHS mismannagement before John Roberts.

    No hearings of any sort until there is accountability and action.  NOTHING!

    No legislation on any matter that does not bring help to the gulf or accountability to the people on what happened.

    No Estate Tax repeal.  Repeal the give aways to the energy companies and the energy and highway pork.

    Repeal of the bankruptcy bill, repeal of tax cuts for the rich.

    It is time to reach across the isle with baseball bats to forge working alliances with moderates and shame them into working with us.

    The Senate can do this.  Reid is the person to lead it, but every Democrat and Moderate Republican should be on the team.

    It is time for a political shift, and one won't occur if it is business as ususal.  It's time for business UNUSUAL.

    Take Action!

  •  We all know what is coming (4.00)
    -just like we all knew that the hurricane was coming and it was going to be bad.

    There is going to be a full-on rightwing media assault on the Mayor and the Governor of La., and the very people leading it are going to decry any flak sent the White House's way as 'politicizing a tragedy'.

    I am sure I will hear 'not this time', and 'there is no way that they would get away with it' in response. CNN has 'brass balls' and 'the MSM is waking up and asking questions'.

    Isn't that what we all thought, and we all told each other, could never happen about 9/11, Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Florida 2000, and Ohio 2004?

    Sue Collins and Joe Lieberman are both 'lets not be overly partisan or disrespectful and ask the hard questions of our Commander in Chief' Senators. They just are.

    As far as I am concerned, a few million angry African Americans and a rainbow of the enraged poor abandoned to be victims of this storm marching on DC and demanding the truth would be more comforting right now that a Lieberman Collins tag team of 'civility'.


    **** I'm a Proud 'Fight Back in all 50 States' Democrat ****

    by LeftHandedMan on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:01:26 PM PDT

    •  I agree. (none)
      Investigations, sure, go ahead.

      But in the meantime, citizens must (and will, I hope) that this government be held accountable RIGHT NOW for their actions.

      Enough of the platitudes, rewarding campaign donors with positions of authority, and fundraising experts given top jobs without responsibilities.  If any Congressperson continues to follow an agenda or dares to propose legislation any time soon that continues to serve the wealthy, rather than tending to its own needy citizens, then we are doomed.

      Kossacks and others must rise up and demand action. And we can't wait for another election to set things right.

  •  Your tax cuts at work (4.00)
    ...a meme I stole someplace.

    I have a little poster too. The text needs some work.

    We have always been at war with Eurasia

    by NotSoFast on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:04:29 PM PDT

  •  Let us ask again: Where is Cheney? (none)
    At a time of national peril, just where is the Vice President of the United States of America.

    Does anyone know?

    I did not receive $ from Ketchum, U.S. Department of Ed or HHS to write this---though I wish I had.

    by Volvo Liberal on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:07:34 PM PDT

    •  Probly chill'in. n/t (none)

      In Your Face From Outer Space

      by mike101 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:23:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  He's apparently fishing in Canada or some such (none)
    •  Same place he was (none)
      during 9/11 and the great Northeast black-out. Chateau d'Undisclosed Location. With anarchy and explosive anger directed at BushCo, they're no doubt keeping Cheney in a safe place in case something unfortunate should occur.

      "The delusional is no longer marginal..." --Bill Moyers

      by queen crab on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:36:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Cheney's whereabouts (none)
      I think it would be a mistake to believe that Bush, Cheney and the others have been sleeping since last Friday, when Katrina skipped into the Gulf and began to intensify.  Like war, catastrophe is an opportunity for maximum, sustained profiteering.  My best guess is they've been planning, not sleeping, for nearly a week.  Today--you didn't notice it was choreographed?  Bush comes, the troops come, congress meets, the first of the money comes, etc. etc.  September 2, action date, didn't just happen.  It was selected.  Why?  You can be sure it has to do with maximum profit opportunities.  Bad press?  They own it, after all.  They can handle that.  They're looking long term.  This 10.5 billion of our money and the rest to follow--into whose hands is it going?  Like the five trillion in oil they're sitting on in Iraq.  These guys didn't get where they are by not being claws on and snouts in when the smell of  sacks of billions is in the air.

      PS  On 9/11, Cheney wasn't sleeping either.  He was in the basement of the Whitehouse, in some kind of Dr. Strangelove action center.  Some assert he was in total charge during those two bizarre hours.

  •  Something tells me Lieberman will do ok... (none)
    He is batshit crazy on foreign policy but on domestic stuff he isn't that bad. I'd like to think he will do a thorough job.

    For the record, I can't stand the guy and I am probably a bit too optimistic but maybe we should send him some letters of support.

  •  O'Reilly (Pervert Extraordinaire) Blames Blanco (none)
    Just was watching a bit of Fox News...O'Reilly blaming Blanco, the Democrat, for pretty much the entire mess.  Surprise surprise.  I suppose he'll probably also somehow blame Hillary Clinton for the Katrina disaster too.

    He claimed that Blanco had 6,000 troops at her disposal and did nothing.  Let me remind him that perhaps if more troops were here and not in Iraq, she could have done more.

    Plus, unlike Bush, at least she was around doing her job.  Folks, get ready, because the Repuglikans are already blaming the Democrats and Blanco for the disaster...just wait and see.  I hope it bites them back in the ass (don't worry Limbaugh already has a cist there).

    •  Blanco has been an embarassment (none)
      What a zero, IMHO.

      I did not receive $ from Ketchum, U.S. Department of Ed or HHS to write this---though I wish I had.

      by Volvo Liberal on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:16:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Very true (none)
        From her website:

        "I have declared August 31, 2005, a Day of Prayer in the State of Louisiana.

        "I am asking that all of Louisiana take some time Wednesday to pray. Pray for the victims and the rescuers. Please pray that God give us all the physical and spiritual strength to work through this crisis and rebuild".

        It seems like every statement from her has been about praying and thanking the lord that things aren't worse. If people want to pray, they can find a minister or church. She should dealing with the real issues - getting real help to her people.

  •  Will someone start a timeline on this debacle? (none)
    Everything is all scattered around and I can't keep it straight.


  •  The Bush administration (none)
    did the very best they could responding to the disaster.  They gave their very best.  The very best they had to offer.
  •  "If done right" (none)
    Well, I'm certainly not going to hold my breath, or expect "great progress" from the same dipshits that helped us get to this point.
  •  More hearings, more committees (none)
    Enough! These people need to come out of the House of Horrors and get their hands dirty.  The've lost touch with real people.  Committees, Meetings, Hearings... how is that going to solve anything now?
  •  Start with Rice (none)
    She was on vacation in NYC while the Canadians were begging to send supplies, equipment, and personnel. And Rice is in charge of coordinating international propositions for relief aid.

    I wonder if Rice's vacation interfered with possible help from the international community, and why Bush didn't call her back to the White House when the rest of his cabinet was there.

    Please get this out to other bloggers, news organizations and political experts who might be more knowledgeable of the chain of command for that sort of situation.

    The Bush Plan:
    Step 1.: Invade Iraq.
    Step 2.: ???
    Step 3.: Democracy!

    by the good reverend on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:21:31 PM PDT

  •  Show me the money! (none)
    I mean seriously, I want to know: Where has all the money gone? What has it been spent on?

    Because they obviously haven't spent it on anything that would even remotely help anyone in a time of need.

    I apologize for yelling but we have spent billions and have absolutely nothing but a bunch of clueless idiots to show for it.

    GWB: best argument I know of to refute "Intelligent Design"

    by Pandora on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:23:04 PM PDT

  •  Start right here (4.00)
    Read THIS on MSNBC.

    Money quotes:

    A government document obtained by NBC News shows just how radically the focus shifted to terrorism. It is dated July 2004 and lists 222 upcoming FEMA and homeland security exercises scheduled to prepare for national emergencies. Only two involve hurricanes.

    or this

    "What bothers me the most is all the people who've died unnecessarily," says Ivor Van Heerden, a hurricane researcher from Louisiana State University who ran the exercise.

    Van Heerden says the federal government didn't take it seriously.

    "Those FEMA officials wouldn't listen to me," he says. "Those Corps of Engineers people giggled in the back of the room when we tried to present information."

    It's really that simple - we have an administration completely incapable of all but the most narrow of tasks.  They cannot handle more than "issue" at a time -- and to make matters worse, once they start down a blind alley, heaven help us because they'll keep running into the wall again and again and again, all the while telling us to just stay the course.

    They have no concept of failure because they refuse to recognize even when it kicks them in the balls over and over and over again.  It's all just "hard work".  It's all a "great job".

  •  I'm the Bluest Bluestate... (none)
    ...Commie Left Wing Mother F***er you're ever gonna meet, but any Democrat that particpated in this fiasco oughta be thrown out with the rest of 'em. Including that "backslapping" Senator from Louisana.

    I wrote an angry e-mail to my Senators (Boxer and Feinstein) asking why they wern't out on the steps of the capital demanding to know wht the fk that no good frat boy worthless piece of s*t President has been doing for 5 days.

    Sorry for the language, my father was a truck driver and when I get really pissed I channel his vocabulary.

  •  *shoots self* (none)
    you know how you cruise the internets and find all those wonderful gems of punditry?  well i found and lost one of the best.   please help my addled mind.

    iirc, it was a fairly mainstreamish source and it was a resounding condemnation of shrubCo's pathetically lame emergency response.

    the main gist of it was that politics and policy have real effects for real people in the real world and that critical analysis of this situation is not only warranted, but necessary and is not to be dismissed as partisan criticism.  


  •  You being straight? (none)
    I'm taking a screen shot of this.
  •  We know who fucked up (none)
    The question is what are we going to do about it. No one can pretend that the government of NOLA, LA and the US are not at fault. What else needs to be investigated. They simply need to go.
  •  I just figured out... (none) to do bold text by accident, but I think you get the idea.
  •  BUSH: THE END. Bumper Sticker. (none)
    Buy your Bumper Sticker here.
    All profts go to the Red Cross.
    35 sold! Total Donation so far= $74.37



    Gift Information
    Amount: $74.37
    Donation Fund: Hurricane 2005 Relief
    Honor/Memorial Gift: No

    Contact Information
    Name: Mr. Bradley S Isenbek
    Company: Barnes Landing Creative, Inc.
    Address: 93 Windward
    City, State Zip: East Hampton,  NY  11937
    Country:  US

    Get out of control, but appear under control. It's not bad to alarm other people, though - it's good for them.
    - Hunter S. Thompson

    by bisenbek on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:32:11 PM PDT

  •  They better investigate THIS too... (none)
    Oh..My Freaking GOD.....

    The Navy has hired Houston-based Halliburton Co. to restore electric power, repair roofs and remove debris at three naval facilities in Mississippi damaged by Hurricane Katrina.

    Houston Chronicle

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:32:43 PM PDT

    •  Cheney's zzzzzzzzzzzz (none)
      Ok, this fits with my earlier post.  You see.  He's not on vacation.  He's on "vacation."  The profiteering has begun.  Carlyle, Bechtel must be in the wings--and you know that Lockheed Martin will get the contract to embed surveillance over under sideways down in the "New New Orleans" that these guys are going to build.  What a rocking place it will be, full, I'm sure, of resistance, transcendence, and poetry.
  •  Leiberman is on top of things? (none)
    How mutch Joementum do you think he has?

    "Just when they think they know the answer, I change the question!" R.Piper

    by McGirk SF on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:33:41 PM PDT

  •  my Reynolds chapeau (none)
    Is it me, or does there seem to be a large number of high-UID'd users making more-or-less identical comments in various diaries about the school buses?  In "normal" circumstances, I'd say there's a point about the buses, but seeing as how there's a definite shift in the winds of blame, I'm going to cinch my hat tighter.
  •  KEEP ON this shit... (none)
    don't let 'em fuck it up... 'don't trust 'em.'

    sorry, politicos reading this... you -must- understand that, from down here, you smell bad.

    don't let this turn into 'blame the intelligence' bullshit. you're blaming your own military by this point. (army engineering corp...)

    you watch it... 'cuz we'll be watching you.

    ----- most politicians couldn't care less how you vote every four years... but they pay very close attention to where you spend four years' worth of money.

    by n step on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:36:33 PM PDT

    •  y'know, there's a lotta room around (none)
      the capital building in d.c. ...

      LET'S FLOOD IT, like the flood waters of n.o. ...

      FLOOD the streets of d.c. with people.

      ----- most politicians couldn't care less how you vote every four years... but they pay very close attention to where you spend four years' worth of money.

      by n step on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:39:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  well (none)
    So we have two Republicans on the panel?  

    Who are they going to hold accountable do you suppose?  NARAL? Cindy Sheehan's supporters?  

    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho Marx

    by markymarx on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:38:36 PM PDT

  •  hmmm (none)
    i don't forsee much useful info coming from a liberman endorsed investigation of anything.  the guy doesn't care.
  •  Priorities? (none)
    Excuse me, but shouldn't they be worried about saving people's lives first? The whitewash can wait.

    "The delusional is no longer marginal..." --Bill Moyers

    by queen crab on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:39:30 PM PDT

    •  LET'S NOT 'TRUST' ANY OF THEM NOW. (4.00)
      this is -BULLSHIT- of the highest magnitude.

      don't buy -ANY- of it. no more weenie-bullshit-we'll-touchy-feely-demos...


      they are FUCKS. we KNOW this by now.

      DON'T BUY BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they will try to BURY their RESPONSIBILITY in alllllll this BULLSHIT!!!

      they will try to FOIST their ignorance, their -lameness,- their -CULPABILITY- in ALL THIS BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      DON'T - BUY - IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      god - DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      ----- most politicians couldn't care less how you vote every four years... but they pay very close attention to where you spend four years' worth of money.

      by n step on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:47:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  gee, sorry... (none)
        am i drunk enough already tonight? :)

        "outta gas!"
        "yep - outta gas!"
        "no, WE'RE outta gas! tanker's late!"
        - blue brothers

        c'mon, you know the truth... guitar-solos and social-security dead-horses are priority over DYING INFANTS... over DYING PEOPLE.

        don't - -let- them - FOOL YOU...

        because for them to -fool- you... takes you... -LETTING- them!!!!!!!!!!

        DON'T  -LET- THEM FOOL YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

        ----- most politicians couldn't care less how you vote every four years... but they pay very close attention to where you spend four years' worth of money.

        by n step on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:53:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  How about (none)
    with all the closed military bases over the last ten years (Woodstock '99 was at the old Rome AFB  in Upsate NY) using the housing on these bases for the displaced...heard that suggestion on the radio....
  •  trust Collins more than Liberman (none)
    Me too.
  •  Markos, I agree (none)
    completely about Lieberman. The problem is not he is a crook, the problem is that he is being around that assholes for such a long time, he too has start smelling. If for nothing else, I suspect he will wilt(oh! how I hate these made-for-politician words such as this!) under pressure to cut corners.
  •  Don.t know, (none)
    here are the members of the investigation

    Repuglicans                     Democrats

    Norm Coleman                    Carl Levin
    Chairman (R-MN)             Ranking Member (D-MI)

    Ted Stevens (R-AK)             Daniel K. Akaka (D-HI)

    Tom Coburn (R-OK)             Thomas R. Carper (D-DE)

    Lincoln D. Chafee (R-RI)     Mark Dayton (D-MN)

    Robert F. Bennett (R-UT)     Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)

    Pete V. Domenici (R-NM)     Mark Pryor (D-AR)

    John W. Warner (R-VA)      

  •  Got done watching Hardball... (none)
    and 2 of the Congressman that were on the show were basically on site working relief.  They were both Democrats.  So my question is, how many of the congressman are out working in their districts?  And for the sake of politicizing things, what is the party breakdown on this?
  •  NO FUCKING WAY (none)
    This outrage demands an independent commission.  The very least we can do is to find out the truth.

    Collins-- she's a bimbo who just got Portsmouth Naval Shipyard "unclosed".  She won't ruffle any feathers.
    Lieberman-- you've got to be kidding me.

    Neither one of these people is independent enough. And quite frankly, neither one of them is either poor enough or black enough to call for such an investigation.  The good citizens of the SOUTH require an investigation which has their interests, not the phoney folks from states that are removed from the disaster.

    There I said it, and I'm hoppin mad 2nite.  

    •  indepent commission? (none)
      appreciated, but let's go for a garden-variety ordinary PUBLIC-CALLED GRAND JURY investigation... we CANNOT allow a 'congressional committee' to handle the public trust.

      all those goddamned driver's liceneses gone to waste over public cases...

      we need -REAL PEOPLE- to call out on this one.

      ----- most politicians couldn't care less how you vote every four years... but they pay very close attention to where you spend four years' worth of money.

      by n step on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:59:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think that's a good idea (none)
        You hit upon something I hadn't thought about.

        The last thing I want to see is the New Orleans folks being called to testify as an afterthought--like they did with the 9/11 families.

        The frontrunners on this need to be local people.  Not some group "formed in a completely bipartisan way".  This commission ought to be a people's one comprised of the people in that region.  I can hope for something other than a whitewash.

        •  thanks.... (none)
          furthering the idea...

          'jury duty' should not be the 'punishment' for being a registered voter... it should be for becoming a 'valid driver' in our country.

          the only thing being a registered voter should count ya for... is -tax write-offs.- (and we have to work on that first...)

          VOTE = REWARD.

          ----- most politicians couldn't care less how you vote every four years... but they pay very close attention to where you spend four years' worth of money.

          by n step on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 09:20:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I agree (none)
      I was thinking the same. The fuckers will cover it up. This is as much about national security and emergency preparedness as it is about the failure of  the relief efforts.
  •  decades of corruption, hundreds of billions stolen (4.00)
    two senators just ain't gonna cut it.  

    the blame goes right to the culture of corruption that has flourished in this nation for the last couple decades.  money that was supposed to be spent for public works has been lining the pockets of political cronies, with completely inadequate results.

    we've let our politicians - republicans and democrats - get away with empty promises and no results for too long.  now we've seen what happens when we don't hold them accountable.

    maybe it's time to retire all our elected officials and start over.  

    and the lobbyists?  they can be housed in a large sports stadium with minimal provisions and no bathrooms for the next couple years.  they've already made our government a cesspit, it's about time they started to smell the part.

    i agree with kos that lieberman is a bad choice. since he's in bed with the homeland security patronage apparatus, he's not going to be able to catalog its corruption and shortcomings.

    we'd better decide now if we are going to be fearless men or scared boys.
    — e.d. nixon, montgomery improvement association

    by zeke L on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:54:37 PM PDT

  •  Here is the lesson the people of Louisiana (4.00)
    should learn.  If you want the federal government to do anything for you, then elect one of W's brothers as your governor.  I don't think Neil has much to do right now.

    So I see only tatters of clearness through a pervading obscurity - Annie Dillard

    by illinifan17 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 05:54:58 PM PDT

  •  In the proposed investigation (none)
    Lieberman will whitewash anything detremental to the administration. Joe Lieberman has morphed into another Zell Miller.
  •  Lieberman (none)
    Kos, you are still smarting from that "spider hole of denial" zinger, aren't you.  Jeez, get over it!  Howie had it coming.

    While I certainly do not always agree with Joe Lieberman, he is a good Dem who is correct on most issues.  It is glaringly awkward for you to be smitten by western Dems who walk away from Dem party orthodoxy, while at the same time excoriating party centrists who are actually more faithful to it.

    I trust Joe Lieberman to investigate this tragedy.  I'd prefer that it were Ted Kennedy or Barbara Boxer, but I think Joe will do just fine.  

  •  Kanye West (none)
    is performing on the NBC Red Cross concert thing and he just said "President Bush doesn't care about black people" Can anyone get a clip!!

    Its not easy being a Floridian.

    by lawstudent922 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:01:37 PM PDT

  •  wtf??? (none)
    Why is this administration always fucking up, and then there's a commission to examine why they fucked up?
  •  Fire Them All (none)
    A Lieberman investigation is not what we need.  It's time to have a big accountability moment for the entire leadership of our government, Republican and Democrat.  This week has proven that this government is not serious about governing.  It is not serious about the public welfare.  Especially the Senate!  The Senate is serious about Janet Jackson's tit.  About video games.  About baseball players using steroids.

    We have just witnessed the meltdown of one of our major cities.  We don't need jokers like Lieberman exonerating everyone (don't be fooled; it will be an exoneration commission by the time it's all over).  Heads should roll, and some of those heads should be the bozos' who will no doubt be parading across our television screens this weekend, expressing dismay to Tim Russert et al.  

    There should be people resigning in disgrace.  Instead, all we will get is more lame excuses, as after 9-11.

  •  From Powerline (none)
    Why Was New Orleans Evacuated?

    A number of our readers have been highly critical of state and local authorities in Louisiana. However, it must be acknowledged that they did one important thing that saved countless lives: they ordered the mandatory evacuation on Sunday that caused most people to leave the city. This mandatory evacuation order was a departure from past practice, when evacuations in the face of approaching hurricanes have always been voluntary.
    So what prompted the order that prevented Hurricane Katrina from being a natural disaster of unprecedented magnitude?

     The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should.

     Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

    The City of New Orleans and its residents owe the President a profound debt of gratitude.


    •  huh? (none)
      Seems like theyve got a differant veiw. Its still a free country and it is their right to beleive anything. They wear tinfoil hats?

      it tastes like burning...

      by eastvan on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:24:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bull (none)
      I don't even live in a high risk hurricane area, and the beach areas here get mandatory evacuations anytime they think there might be a hurricane.

      Mandatory. Not voluntary.

      And in bad snowstorms, they have no drive rules. Don't you dare try to drive, they'll stop you before you get to the highway.

      However, you have to take mandatory with a grain of salt. They're not going around and dragging people out (though that can happen). But they WILL tell them that nobody is going to come after them.

      And they DO have shelters for those that can't totally leave -- evacuation means the immediate area, like a few miles inland from the beach. It doesn't mean hundreds of miles away.

  •  How about a UN Investigation? (none)
    Or maybe we could invite in the Canadians or the Finns or Germans?

    I know it's very very unlikely, but if things continue to deteriorate, we may eventually need the UN.  I can see riots in the streets in another year or 2... people are really on edge right now.

  •  Political Lessons Learned (none)
    Watergate: It's not the crime that gets you, it's the cover-up

    Hurricane Katrina:  It's not the storm that gets you, it's the aftermath

  •  This is the problem (none)
    today, Collins and Lieberman are considered bipartisan, please, right and more right is not my definition of bipartisan, COVERUP is on the way so don't be surprised.
  •  brian williams just now (none)
    interviewing reporter carl quintinella(?) about why things are so fucked up--he said that so much of the burden of security and organization was left to municipal workers.  sounds like tax cuts and no federal funding to me.
    i'm hoping the story will not be dammed up.
  •  finding out (none)
    Collins is among the best the repubs have to offer and I sure she has paid aprice in that madhouse of a party. She has a strong sense of,dare I say it, of what is right or wrong and seems to exude an air of common sense. I wonder how she survives politically in her own party. She aint no Lott or Delay, thats for sure. Maybe she gets home to Maine and smells the fresh Atlantic enough to keep her honest. Just my guess.

    it tastes like burning...

    by eastvan on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:22:11 PM PDT

  •  Idea for Evacuees (none) has a list of homes willing to welcome evacuees.  We should get the Crawford Ranch on that list.
  •  Not Tarred and Feathered (none)
    They should be hanged, drawn, and quartered.
  •  The investigation must be independent (none)
    If we want the truth, the investigation will have to be run by some sort of people's committee--totally independent of both Rethuglicans and Dittorats.  In my opinion, corporate power has corrupted congress to the point where it simply cannot act in the interest of the people, only for that of the corporations.  And since there will be "global cooling" in hell on the day we get a people's committee with full investigative powers, hey, we're only talking one more act in the political opera bouffe that has been distracting and ruining our lives for decades now.
  •  Lieberman??? What the FUCK? (none)
    I did a double take there. OK, fine. Joe wants an investigation.

    Here's an idea.

    I don't totally trust you Joe. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, if you give us (that's We the People, yo) the benefit of the doubt.

    So let's make sure that the investigation includes someone with investigative authority (I don't know the proper terms, but, like 'chair' or 'co-chair' status) who is on good standing with the progressive netroots. A Feingold, or a Boxer, I don't know. Not many names come to mind.(really, who can you trust these days when the informed majority knows we were lied into a trillion dollar war, yet the Senate smiles and claps).

    Is it a deal, Joe? We the People are not in the mood for a whitewash. The failures in this catastrophe were probably on par with the failures before 9-11 and the "failures" on Iraq WMD. We know the 9-11 Commission was a whitewash, and we know there has been nothing seriously investigated about Iraq WMD intelligence "failures". So pardon me if I'm just a little bit skeptical. And another thing to put bluntly, Joe, after seeing how this administration responded to this crises, we all took another step closer to demanding immediate unconditional resignation or Impeachment. We are not in the mood for a whitewash.

    "Blogging doesn't make it so" - Rep. Hayworth (R) AZ 1/6/2005. Oh yeah?

    by bejammin075 on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 06:44:48 PM PDT

  •  Lieberman? Lieberman>>??????? (none)
    Lieberman isn't going to get to the bottom of anything.  
  •  tar and feather (none)
    I grew up in all of these affected areas.  I knew what would happen if a cat 4/5 hit new orleans!!!!!!!! I've seen what a Cat 5 can do to the coast. The truth is buried beneath so many layers of spin by our govt and others.  There were official reports by the Govt (a couple of years ago) suggesting that this emergency was not only possible, but likely.  Those responsible for these reports were forced out and the budgets were cut!  

    Bush is in CYA mode.  He did not help his citizens before or after this disaster.  He let them die! He continues to allow them to die!  

    He encourages the private sector because he will not commit federal resources!

    Gross Negligence is the only phrase that comes to my mind!!

    Should he be held accountable?

  •  Keep the Estate Tax & repeal past tax cuts (none)
    I'd like to see a heavy lobbying effort to resist the vote on the repeal of the Estate Tax that scheduled for next week.

    Now is a PERFECT time to say "wait a minute.  Here's an excellent example of where our tax dollars are needed.  We DON'T need to give them away to rich folks; we need them to help folks injured in disasters such as this."  [Of course we all know we need the rich guys' tax dollars for a million other good causes, but this one is right in everyone's face.]

    Please, let's all go LTE, post, blog, etc.

  •  We already know who blew it (none)
    Mayor Nygen, for ordering a mandatory evacuation without using the means he had at his disposal (look at all those buses underwater) and securing other means to get the job done; for enjoining people to go to the Convention Center and the Superdome without a plan in place to provision them.

    Governor Blanco, for standing by and giving lots of news conferences, but not much else, it would seem (I would love to be proven wrong).

    FEMA director Brown, for not having a plan of action in case of the flooding of NO, or if there was one, for not implementing it (what happened anyway?)

    Homeland security chief Chertoff: what a total boondoggle this Homeland Security thing is. The whole thing obviously needs restructuring. Chertoff comes across as just another talking head, without the authority to actually get anything done.

    The Senate of the United States of America: for setting up a blame-finding commission, the great past time of couch potatoes from sea to shining sea, when they should instead give priority to developing a bipartisan plan to rebuild New Orleans, the neighboring parishes, and other hard-hit areas, and then pass and fund legislation to accomplish it.

    The House of Representatives: where are you? Thank God for the black caucus. Everyone else obviously couldn't care less.

    Vice President Cheney: where are you?

    President Bush, for failing to calibrate the response of his Administration to accord with the gravity of the situation. In retrospect, it is obvious he should have been in a helicopter surveying the damage on Tuesday and every day thereafter, and playing the role of Comforter in Chief. That's not too hard to figure out politically. Karl Rove: where are you? You disappoint me.

    True, Congress has proposed and Bush will sign legislaton that puts $10 billion on the nation's credit card to deal with the problems. How come I do not find that reassuring?

    An interesting aside: now that the Army has arrived, things are looking up, but the armed forces were on the scene faster halfway across the world after the tsunami. We need to change our laws and procedures such that they could be called in with a 24 hour turn around when the need arises.

  •  Yep, let's spend money... (none)
    that should go toward the refugees to find out who fucked up...simply put the GOVERNMENT...investigation over.
  •  Ditto re: who I trust! n/t (none)

    bush jams while thousands die in NOLA=Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

    by Street Kid on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 07:21:00 PM PDT

  •  great, Lieberman (none)
    Lieberman?  Oh good god.  Lovely to know that the lapdog is going to get right on it after his summer vacation.
  •  Lieberman and a bipartisan investigation (none)
    I am a democrat. I live in CT, not far from Lieberman. He is a terrible excuse for a democrat, especially one of its leaders. He is a self-serving grandstander who panders to too many corporate interests. One can only hope that John Orman, who will probably run, upsets him in next year's primary. I also hope that Susan Collins accomplishes something here, because I doubt anything will come from Joe.
  •  Can we hyphenate the storm's name? (none)
    Can we change it's name to Katrina-George?  
  •  I look forward (none)
    to Lieberman's report that violent video games were responsible.
  •  RE (none)
    You are joking, right?  When has the last time bipartisan commission reached conclusions that jived with the facts?  

    Thought so.

    ... now watch this drive.

    by jg on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 08:16:49 PM PDT

  •  Good chairs (3.00)
    Collins and Lieberman are pretty damn close together politically, and neither one is famous for toeing the party line. Actually, they're both famous for not doing so.

    If there's any chance of getting a fair investigation out of this, those are two good people to head it up.

    I am a reform Democrat.

    by rusty on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 08:27:26 PM PDT

  •  hurricane is horrible only if ppl stand in the way (none)
    flood in New Orleans d=us&ncl= p;hl=en

    typhoon in southern china d=us&ncl=

    both news appeared in google news these days. both deal a lot of damage to innocent people on   the planet. yet, in term of scale, the Katrina cause "tens of thousands" of people to evacuate, and the talim cause "hundreds of thousands" of people to leave their home.
    But, as we've seen on the TV, New Orlean already face a lot of diffculties right now,  just imaging what will happen if all the numbers increase by 10 times..

    people might arguing that that's because china is a developing nation, with lower living standard and more likely to evacuate instead of stay in local safe buildings. But  the real matter is, china have more than 4 times of the US population,  the higher population density and of course, more people get affected. ( don't forget Typhoon talim is much less powerful than Katrina with top wind speed only 75km/hr (less than 50 miles per hour)

    here..I will question all of these people who were claiming human rights about birth control, what are you doing right now with the people suffering... if the population can be under control, and we put more resource on improving people's life, we will save "thousands" even "millions" people from suffering.. do the math and be responsible to the nature.

    we learn from mistakes

    by changemyname on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 08:32:29 PM PDT

  •  Just skipping to the bottom (none)


    With a republican and lieberman?  In a Senate controlled by Big Time Dick?

    A wimpy republican?  Lieberman?

    OTOH,It's funny that we don't even know the extent of this disaster and they're already going to investigate it, yet 9/11 took how long?

    Democrats better beware, they will be blamed if they don't watch it.

  •  cognitive dissonance (none)
    "Funny thing is, given the two names on this effort, I trust Collins to get at the truth more than I trust Lieberman"

    Odd, coming from a guy who's mantra is "The worst Democrat is better than the best Republican."

    No-one who voted against the USAPATRIOT Act has lost an election. I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State. Or Yours.

    by ben masel on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 09:10:11 PM PDT

  •  'Funny thing.." (none)
     Agreed !            


  •  Petition (none)
    I have posted a petition asking for immediate investigations.

    Please sign it!


    The world according to me:

    by Mormon for Democracy on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 10:03:05 PM PDT

  •  Is this true??? (none)
    If so, load me up with tinfoil -- I heard:

    The Registry of Deeds in the basement of City Hall has been wiped out. Nobody has any idea of who owns what anymore.


    "As peace is of all goodness, so war is an emblem, a hieroglyphic, of all misery."

    by MissAnneThrope on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 10:07:01 PM PDT

  •  Lieberman is there for one reason only, (none)
    to whitewash Bush.  Blame will go everywhere else, but not Bush.  He is Lieberman's friend and Joe needs Bush to keep making war against ... um countries Joe doesn't like (let's just leave it at that).  Joe and his like minded friends have no better friend (they think) that the neocons and definitely want to keep that power in place.
  •  BULLCRAP! (none)
    If Joe Lieberman's involved as the Democrat, it's a FUCKING COVERUP!  get that asshole out of there and get Waxman or Conyers in charge!


  •  If Holy Joe puts the screws to Bush (none)
    I'll eat my left testicle.

    "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize." -James Madison

    by Subterranean on Sat Sep 03, 2005 at 01:50:18 AM PDT

  •  Democrats' 9/11 Political Opportunity (none)
    i don't mean to sound crass but this tragedy has all the potential to be the Democrats' equivalent of the Republican exploitation of the 9/11 disaster.  Katrina's aftermath has ripped the scab off the economic and social wounds of America:  economic disadvantage, racial discrimination, class warfare, lack of universal health care, no energy policy to stem high gasoline prices. These are CORE DEMOCRATIC ISSUES!!!  I hope the party gets on the stick and figures this out and makes the "Republican Government" pay the price next year.

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