Daily Kos

My View From Inside the Great Kos-Dean Konspiracy

Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:15:20 PM PDT

Update [2005-1-15 2:15:20 by Armando]: From the diaries, by Armando.

There's plenty of strurm and drang in blogdom tonight concerning the non-story on Markos' role (and that of Jerome Armstrong) with the Dean campaign, specifically insinuations that Markos used Daily Kos to advance Howard Dean's campaign because of secret payments to him from the Dean campaign.  I'll leave Markos to deal with the main issues of the non-story.  I do, however, want to contribute a few small but relevant details that may help in assessing the credibility of the story being spun by Zephyr Teachout and pushed by the WSJ and the right wing in their pathetic attempt to find something equivalent to the Bush Administration stealing $240,000 of our tax dollars and giving it to Armstrong Williams for touting Bush administration policies.  

In the Summer of 2003, long after Markos had posted the disclaimer that he was doing contract work for the Dean campaign at the top of Daily Kos, he offered me and Meteor Blades the opportunity to be guest bloggers for him on weekends, when he traveled, and during the time immediately following the birth of his son, which was expected a few months later.  When he contacted me about my interest and availability, he told me what the expectations were regarding when and how often to post, the importance of monitoring the site, alerting him to trolls, etc.  He went over the technical aspects, and he had me and Meteor Blades share contact info so we could coordinate with each other to prevent us both posting the same stories and making sure there weren't gaps in posting.  

[There's more below the jump]

What Markos did not do, however, is ask me or Meteor Blades who we supported for the nomination.  In fact, I don't think Meteor Blades ever posted a single piece on the primary race, and I'm pretty sure his first significant comment about whether he did or would have supported Howard Dean was this, posted below a post-mortem I wrote a month after Dean ended his campaign.  I think I only did two posts about the Democratic primaries prior to mid-February when it became obvious that Kerry had locked up the nomination; one on Joementum's haplessness and one on Kerry opting out of public financing.

Why do I bring up this information?  To point out that the idea that Markos was somehow shilling for Dean at every opportunity is ludicrous.  If he was so concerned with deceptively promoting Dean at Daily Kos, he obviously wouldn't have posted the disclaimer.  But he also wouldn't have picked two people who hadn't been vetted for fealty toward Howard Dean and then turn over the front page of his blog to them at least 3 days of every week.  

Markos is capable of answering his critics, and refreshingly there even seems to be some criticism of the WSJ coming from the periphery of the mainstream media, as Markos has shown on the front page.  But if this idiotic story continues, the role of Markos isn't the only issue relevant to this discussion, it's also important to assess his integrity by looking at what he did with his blog.  And one of the things he did with his blog is turn it over three days a week to someone who he either already knew or soon discovered did not support Howard Dean's primary campaign, and who eventually even actively supported Dean's opponent Wesley Clark.  

If one's goal is simply to shill for a candidate and discredit that candidate's opponents, one would have to be stupid to turn over your metaphorical megaphone to somebody whose thoughts and agenda are unknown to you and who may use that megaphone to proselytize for a cause antithetical to that for which you are supposedly whoring, as Armstrong Williams did for the Bush Administration.  But Markos isn't stupid.  And his goal, as stated to me explicitly and suggested implicitly, is to have an influential blog where people come for good writing, clear thinking, fresh information and sound analysis, and where they can become part of a progressive community allied with but not under the control of the Democratic party.  As such, he had no interest in the kind of ideological purity and reliability one would need to ensure so that your shilling for a candidate would not be undermined by those with whom you entrust editorial control over your blog.  

In fact, when you consider that Markos relinquished continuous control of Daily Kos during the primaries to me and Meteor Blades (and others such as Melanie and Theoria) without knowing whether we would write critically or negatively about Howard Dean, and if you accept that Markos is not stupid, then the only way you could conclude that Markos was involved in some sneaky plot to use Daily Kos to deceptively shill for the Dean campaign is if you yourself are pretty damn stupid.  

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Permalink | 147 comments

  •  All that proves (4.00 / 19)

    is kos is bad at being on the take, not that he wasn't on the take.

    That's a joke for any idiot that doesn't get it.

    Everybody dies alone.

    by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:30:09 PM PDT

  •  But None of This is the Real Issue (4.00 / 37)

    The real issue is that some idiots in the media, and at least one idiot from the Dean campaign, are muddying the waters and possibly keeping people from noticing that the Bush administration gave $240,000 of our tax dollars to somebody to promote their own policies, which is against federal law.

    The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

    by DHinMI on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:30:52 PM PDT

    •  And I seriously fear they have succeeded (none / 0)

      in muddying said waters
      •  We'll See (4.00 / 7)

        As all of us observers of the Bush administratin already know, Friday afternoons are where stories are sent to die.  Saturday papers are by far the least read editions.  So, the question will be whether this stuff seaps into the Sunday talk shows, and if so, does anyone smack back and point out the obvious and glaring discrepancy between using campaign funds to pay somebody with campaign funds to set up a campaign internet operation and using federal tax dollars to pay quietly pay somebody who operates under the mantle of being a journalist to shill for the administration.  

        The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

        by DHinMI on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:44:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  O'Reilly/Bush on Kos (none / 0)

          Did you hear the story about where Mr. Falafel got together with Bush and they called a "higher father" seeking mercy for Jerome and Kos (aka blogfather and blogson), "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

          And the response they received was, "Sorry, wrong number."

          In all seriousness, DHinMI, Kos is a stand-up guy in my book and he need not worry about anything from these lying morons.

          A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. America for Gore

          by JekyllnHyde on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:57:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Of course it will (none / 0)

          as the GOP "everybody does it" rebuttal.

          Everybody dies alone.

          by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:35:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  When life gives you lemons... (none / 0)

          Is anyone from this community going to do interviews or sit for talk shows on Sunday?

          'twould be a tremendous opportunity to further the goals of the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy, at this time when the spotlight of the MSM is shining on us so brightly.

          I'm going to be out of town on vacation, myself.  But I'm just curious as to whether anyone thought to take advantage of this opportunity to a) sell the dKos community and b) illustrate Armstrong Williams' unethical behavior by drawing a contrast with Kos' and Jerome's own?

          As they say, no PR is bad PR, if you take advantage of it.  And we really can't afford to wait for the MSM to wake up on its own...

      •  Markos (4.00 / 6)

        can use this "non-story" to our advantage by making himself available to tell his side of the story and then contrasting that to the Armstrong Williams taxpayer funded payola.
        •  Contrast (3.94 / 19)

          Contrast... like this?


          Markos MoulitsasJerome ArmstongArmstrong Williams
          Paid by:Dean campaign (a private organization)Dean campaign (a private organization)Taxpayer dollars
          For the following activities:Technical consultingTechnical consultingShilling for No Child Left Behind
          Prophylactic measures taken:Prominent disclaimer on websitePut website on hiatus None - concealed the money he received

          Oh yeah - it's all totally equivalent.

          •  Media (none / 1)

            Steele: Just to be sure, my sarcastic tone was certainly NOT directed at you - it was aimed at our lovely media.
          •  david - (4.00 / 2)

            I love this kind of clarity.  However you're making the assumption Fox viewers can read.
            •  How can Fox viewers (none / 0)

              be expected to read when O'Reilly and Hugh Hewitt can't?

              HUGH HEWITT: Now Daily Kos says, this is one of the bloggers from the left, says he disclosed it, but not to the satisfaction of anyone who watches him. I didn't know.

              O'REILLY: Aw, this is bunk. This is bull. Nobody knew about this.

              HEWITT: That's right.

              •  Can't seem to do anything right (4.00 / 3)

                Not only can they not read, but apparently they are under the impression that Markos has a TV show, or maybe is a model.  Cause I don't know about you all, but I usually don't "watch" this blog.  
          •  Contrast--At The Metalevel It Is! (4.00 / 4)

            See:



            Markos MoulitsasJerome ArmstongArmstrong Williams
            Paid by:34 characters 34 characters 15 characters
            For the following activities:19 characters 19 characters 28 characters
            Prophylactic measures taken:28 characters 18 characters 32 characters
            [Total # of charcters]:81 characters 71 characters 75 characters

            You do a character count of the entries in David's table for all three individuals, and they are all the same order of magnitude!

            And look! If you total them, the average character count for Kos & Jerome is 76, just one more than for Armstrong!

            Case closed!

            (For a few dollars more, I could show you the number of the Beast!)

          •  How about adding additional categories (none / 0)

            Williams' reach was spread across different media outlets, correct? And was more likely to be viewed in the "mainstream" outlets - TV, newspaper, whatever.

            Kos, on the other hand, is primarily a blog; although there might be sporadic radio or tv appearances, or press interviews, those are not the primary outlets.

            So, an entry or graphic that demonstrated the disparity of the media outlets for Williams' shilling might show up another absurdity of comparing Kos and Armstrong.

            Don't know if you can, or would even want to get into comparison of numbers of Williams' versus Kos readers; leave that to you all to figure out.

             

          •  I think it's better (none / 0)

            not to make a direct comparison like that much.

            keeping the things separate is about tax money.

            But it's going to turn out the Dept of Education has leeway to buy marketing money, Armstrong takes a rep hit he already took anyway, and that goes away too.  Insofar as this thing... there was full disclosure... no comparison to "no disclosure".  

            Of course, I liked looking at the table, but I'm talking in broader debate contexts.

      •  i dont agree (none / 0)

        unlike the dan rather, "ignore the real story cause the SCLM is trying to screw us all over", this has gotten much less coverage.

        My journalist father was totally outraged over the Armstrong Williams case, said it gave everyone in the media a black eye.

        But when I asked him about this, he hadnt even heard about it and when he looked it up, he laughed at the pathetic attempt by the republicans.

        One of the hardest things to accept as just is a called third strike - Robert Frost

        by israelfox87 on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:01:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  my concern is that this will (none / 0)

          distract from any ongoing investigation of the Bush admin's covert propaganda.  The Willams story is already out; I want to see this used as an occasion to probe other instances of this kind of behavior, and I fear the SCLM's interest will cool with a "eh - both sides do it" shrug.
          •  well (none / 1)

            you will have fools like Bob (biggest douchebag in the universe) Novak and Bill (I sexually harass women and write semi pornographic novels in my spare time) O'Reilly who will spout this crap that both sides do it.

            And some people will think that cause lots of Americans let their TV do their thinking for them.

            But I dont see this getting to the magnitude of Armstrong W. hopefully losing all his jobs and the bush administration having to deal with all these questions.

            Maybe this can be a job that we do here, trying to find out more 'journalists' and 'pundits' who are actually paid with our taxdollars. Cause I assume there are more.

            One of the hardest things to accept as just is a called third strike - Robert Frost

            by israelfox87 on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:11:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  not gonna happen. congressional dems (none / 0)

            and the fcc (even) are supposedly looking into the williams affair, with dems focusing on the administration's misuse of taxpayer funds and the fcc looking into what williams did. just don't see anyone being able to get that kind of firepower going against kos.

            what i do see happening from what people at this site have been saying about media coverage of the zephyr issue is an attempt to smear dean supporters like kos and, by implication, dean himself. so we should ask, why? could be the same reason that the rabid right was applauding roemer - they want their own kind of folks in control of the democratic party, and dean is probably a bigger threat to repubs than anyone else running for dnc chair.

            We get a lot of advice. We tend to listen when somebody's won something. - Joe Lockhart

            by yankeedoodler on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:31:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  WSJ Used Her To Protect Williams (4.00 / 3)

              I don't think it's about Dean; the DNC members are smarter than they would have to be to think there's anything to this story that would sway their votes.  That's why it's being paired up with the Williams thing.  

              Why Zephyr Teachout bitched about Markos and Jerome, I have no idea.  But it was a godsend to anyone seeking to confuse people or somehow come up with a rought equivalence where they can say "oh, everyone's on the take, so what's the big deal about Armstrong Williams?  The Dems like to attack Republicans who get paid, but they do the same thing themselves."

              The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

              by DHinMI on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:35:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  is it about protecting williams? (none / 0)

                or about our own propensity to eat our own? http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/1/14/183851/174/43#43

                We get a lot of advice. We tend to listen when somebody's won something. - Joe Lockhart

                by yankeedoodler on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:51:34 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Not seeing your point (none / 0)

                  Are you saying there should be no discussion of DFA that is critical? That's crazy to me.  Rip kos, but do it with facts, not falsity.

                  Everybody dies alone.

                  by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:58:52 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  nope. saying that the rabid right's target (none / 0)

                    is not kos, except at the margins, but dean - sowing doubt about his ability and his integrity. i was surprised to see a supposedly strong dean supporter say about dean what so many had only been saying about kerry post-election up to now. if he can't do this, he doesn't deserve blah blah blah. dean is not running for a national office, but for dnc chair. yet he is being gnawed at by repubs. gee. why do they care? and we have card-carrying deaniacs worried to the point of saying he doesn't deserve to be dnc chair if he can't "put on an offensive against a corrupt media." true over the long term, but in this instance, isn't it fair to ask, who among us is prepared for betrayal from our own (zephyr). give him some time to work through it and learn from it. and hope that he will not become totally cynical about trusting employees (and nominal supporters).

                    in the meantime, let's ask ourselves when, in the recent past, has the choice of dnc chair been subject to what the rabid right has to say? when has it been subject to the opinions of faux and wsj? kos and jerome are being used as a way of getting at dean. they will be used again against the party if dean is selected as chair. is that a reason not to support dean or to log off of dailykos permanently? no. is that an indication that dean, kos and jerome scare the rabid right? maybe. i certainly hope so.

                    as to dfa, not being a member, i have to leave whatever needs fixing to those who are members. but i don't think it serves anyone (except maybe the rabid right) to suggest that if dean can't fix it immediately, he doesn't deserve to be dnc chair.

                    We get a lot of advice. We tend to listen when somebody's won something. - Joe Lockhart

                    by yankeedoodler on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:56:33 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Correction (none / 0)

          Bob Novak is a douchebag.

          But the biggest douchebag in the universe is John Edwards

      •  This is the real question (none / 0)

        and would be the real implication, not really anything about Markos or Jerome.

        Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

        by a gilas girl on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:19:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There are only four possible explanations (4.00 / 3)

      The folks reporting the lies are either:

      A) incredibly lazy,

      B) partisan assholes who should disclose that they are not really reporters because facts don't matter to them,

      C) on the take, or

      D) some combination of B) and C).

      What else is there?

      The guy who pisses me off the most is Begala.  I think the Washington insiser consulatants are scared that they will lose clout -- and cash --  if party money actually does get funneled down to states under a new DNC chair.

      Facts don't matter.  The slimers just want to cover everyone and everything in mud.  Classic Rovian technique.  Who would have thought that people from our own team would join the O'Reillys of the world and play that game.

      •  this has been a funny past few days. (none / 0)

        remember larisa alexandrovna and her hints at plants in the system, etc? we laughed. now i'm reaching for my tinfoil hat and checking to see if there are any incoming messages re people like zephyr. what if she shows up in a few months as a republican convert who realized how much she had sinned working for howard dean and ready to "spill the beans" about dean's plan to take the party to the far left, or some such variant. just wondering. (let no tinfoil hat go unworn.)

        We get a lot of advice. We tend to listen when somebody's won something. - Joe Lockhart

        by yankeedoodler on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:36:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your First Intinct, That It's Tin-Foil Hattery... (none / 0)

          ...was correct.

          Settling scores after a losing campaign is as old as campaigns.  And people having conversions is also common.  That fucking lunatic David Horowitz wasn't a conservative mole when he was in SDS in the late 60's, he was just a leftwing lunatic who switched and became a right-wing lunatic.  

          The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

          by DHinMI on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:40:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  you missed one (none / 0)

        They may also be loser wannabes trying to fit in to the Repug power and graft machine.

        Also, just because someone is a partisan asshole on the take does not preclude them from being a lazy loser wannabe partisan asshole on the take.

        just really tired of all the bullshit.

        by bitterguy on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:31:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly! (none / 1)

      I said the same thing yesterday and earlier today...

      Our side should never be defending, they need to repeat over and over, taxpayer money, propaganda, and investigation.  Period.  Take the offense, call anyone out who tries to spin.  Don't argue, state the facts.  JMO.

      Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

      by BarbinMD on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:57:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I remember always seeing the (none / 0)

      disclaimer at the top left hand side of the this website, but didn't Kos always say it as well at the bottom of each article he wrote on Dean on the front page?  Seems like that was all he could do.  What was he supposed to do-take a full page ad out in all the major papers? No one would have gave a shit at the time.  This is crap, pure and simple.
  •  Recommended (none / 0)

    And saved, in case someone posts something even hinting about Markos possibly sort of maybe kind of doing what the Wall Street Urinal is saying.


    You looked better on Facebook...

    by Plutonium Page on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:31:10 PM PDT

    •  kinda a non sequitur (4.00 / 2)

      but everytime I go camping and I have to buy newspaper to start fire with, I always buy the WSJ.

      Nytimes is for reading

      WSJ is for burning :)

      One of the hardest things to accept as just is a called third strike - Robert Frost

      by israelfox87 on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:03:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There's the real reason behind this tempest (4.00 / 3)

    the only way you could conclude that Markos was involved in some sneaky plot to use Daily Kos to deceptively shill for the Dean campaign is if you yourself are pretty damn stupid.

    Look at who we're dealing with.  You answered your own question.  Anyone with four firing neurons has figured out the drastic difference already.

    The problem is, that rules out all right wingers and our entire media.  

    Even if Kos hadn't posted a disclaimer, it still wouldn't fucking matter since he was not being paid with taxpayer money.

    "Raybin is not a lying maniac. I've found this person to be an extremely clever and devious lying conartist, but never a maniac."--RElland on Daily Kos

    by Raybin on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:51:58 PM PDT

    •  Quibble, But An Important Quibble (none / 0)

      Markos did post a disclaimer.  It was up there for months.  

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by DHinMI on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:55:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know, I'm just saying... (none / 0)

        ...it still wouldn't matter even if he hadn't.  The disclaimer is a non-issue, just like this whole situation.

        Kos and Jerome could really have taken 300,000 dollars a month from Dean and wrote sonnets extolling him to the high heavens to rival Shakespeare and it still wouldn't be 1/1000 as bad as what Williams did.

        Of course, they didn't.  But it doesn't matter.  This whole thing is about >< that close to making me shave my head and climb a fucking belltower, it's so inane and becoming such a stupid situation.

        I swear, if Dean is damaged by this and doesn't get the DNC chair because of it, I'm going to need serious therapy to keep from shaving my head and climbing a belltower.

        "Raybin is not a lying maniac. I've found this person to be an extremely clever and devious lying conartist, but never a maniac."--RElland on Daily Kos

        by Raybin on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:59:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Taxpayer money (none / 0)

      is definitely the bullet point here.

      Besides, Howard Dean is not President, he didn't even win the Democratic nomination, so in the end it doesn't matter what he did, imho.

      I agree with another poster that perhaps Trippi had a hand in this crap.

      Remember Petey? Well, I think he was spot on about Trippi from the beginning. Trippi is only out for Trippi.

      I'm too disgusted right now to think of a sig.

      by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:59:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (none / 0)

        Which really makes me blush, since I remember thinking Petey was fucking insane at the time.

        "Raybin is not a lying maniac. I've found this person to be an extremely clever and devious lying conartist, but never a maniac."--RElland on Daily Kos

        by Raybin on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:00:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  re-framing the issue (none / 0)

        The wingnuts seem to be missing the boat here by comparing apples to oranges. Williams way paid by public officials using public money. That's highly problematic. In comparison, DailyKos is privately-run website. Markos can say whatever he wants to say about politics on his own webspace.
        •  I disagree (none / 0)

          You did read about the two Thune bloggers that helped bring down Daschle, spreading Thune campaign propaganda as if it were independent commentary from private bloggers.

          I would still hold that what they did was unethical, though not afaik illegal, and I would be annoyed if Kos or Jerome had done that. They didn't, but what you're saying sounds like it would have been peachy, even if that isn't what you meant.

          People should know who they're getting their information from in terms of outside affiliations. I think that's important. Though I agree entirely about the issue of criminal acts pulling the Williams debate into a whole other arena.

      •  This has nothing to do with Trippi (none / 0)

        This is Zephyr's fantasy and hers alone.

        Remember, Trippi was reading and commenting on both dKos and MyDD back in 2002. He wanted Jerome in Burlington in December of 2002 to work with him. Trippi owed Jerome for a great deal, and that's why he wanted him nearby.

        Zephyr is literally making shit up to score points for her pet cause.

  •  sadly (none / 0)

    our opponents are all about creating IMPRESSIONS ...

    they play these games, over and over and over ...

    that they are going after Kos, Dean ... whomever ... is a sign that they will try to cut any counterattack off at the knees ...

    hammer them on the corruption ...

    hammer them on the lies ...

    Is Kos perfect ...  who the fuck knows, but he puts himself out there, he tries to confront challenges ... and the same goes for Dean and you and Meteor and Armando and so many others ...

  •  Well, reality does come around (4.00 / 6)

    but its so damn slow.

    I think this whole payola thing has hit some very raw nerves. Think about the implications for a minute.

    240K for a minor league asshole. There are more of them out there, maybe even getting more money. If it were you on the take on that scale, what would YOU do to protect it, and yourself ?

    I recall kos making a front page comment a few days ago about someone at the WSJ being on some bush committee or other. Raw Nerve ? Pay back ? worth considering.

    This is a HUGE crack in the RWNM. Lots of FOIA requests have gone out. the FCC is investigating Armstrong, Dems are on it too asking the GAO to get involved.

    If i had to bet, i would bet we turn up some others getting payola, and maybe even a major leaguer.

    so stay on the offensive, we got them right where we want them, they are shitting bricks.

    Keep blasting LTE and relpies to the SCLM to debunk this BS.

    They are trying to bully us. A lot of folks have blasted DC dems for having no spine and not fighting back, well the shoe is on our foot now, lets follow our own advice and kick em in the nuts.

    Thanks for the post DHinMI

    •  I hope you are right (none / 0)

      The full extent of Watergate, as I recall, became more evident after it was discovered that the Nixon administration was paying "hush money" to people familiar with the cover-up.

      What Williams did was ethically stupid, but rather insignificant in comparison to other things that the Bush administration could be doing. Imagine what would happen if it were discovered that BushCo paid newspapers to endorse the Iraq War.

      •  Dana Priest of the WaPo... (none / 0)

        ...raised that issue this morning on the news roundup on Dianne Rheem's show.  She mentioned that the $240K was reported, but that a lot of defense and intellegence spending is beyond public view.  

        It's not illegal to spend money on "public diplomacy" overseas to influence opinion, but if it's spent here it's against the law.  

        The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

        by DHinMI on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:20:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There's a drugwar exemption (none / 0)

          Dissected in this article by Dan Forbes
          As to that complementary Office of Special Counsel ruling, in May 2003 it declared that since state ballot initiatives don't elect individuals to office and aren't formally associated with a particular political party, the normal Hatch Act restrictions on using an official position for electioneering don't apply to the drug czar when he travels the country denouncing initiatives. This despite the law prohibiting the use of "official authority or influence for the purpose of interfering with or affecting the result of an election."

          This practice began under the Clinton Administration

          Democratic Candidate for US Senate, WI (2012)
          Masel4senate

          by ben masel on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:00:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  or hush (none / 0)

        torture
        or write about terror alerts
        or push swift boats so hard for 3 weeks
        or plant fake memos on CBS
        or shill for SS reform
        or Tax cuts

        my god the list is endless.

        NCLB when compared to most of the other policy areas is small potatos.

  •  I remember Kos posting (none / 1)

    something on Election night here about the calls he was getting from network/cable news wanting to interview him, he wrote that he passed on them but would talk to Air America if asked. KOS, Now is the time to talk to them all, Play the game and clear up any confusion to the truth and let them know that this is a distraction from the REAL STORY regarding Armstrong Williams, Bush, et al and spending our money to fund the right wing agenda. This is your calling...take it and run with it. I don't belive this story was meant to be about you, it was about distraction, but you can make it about you and How America shouldn't be blindsided. It will HELP our cause. We need you now to be our voice.

    It's Obamazing!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by Chamonix on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:14:55 PM PDT

  •  DH: (4.00 / 3)

    Excellent diary.

    Please accept my thanks for these facts and the presentation of them.

    You rock.

  •  As a sidebar (none / 1)

    I'd like to see how many new Dkos members sign up this week in comparison to other recent weeks.

    A little study in the "no publicity is all bad" theory.

    On another point, I think it is possible that Markos is collateral damage here, and Howard "Big Nuts" Dean is the real target.

    •  you got that right (none / 0)

      of course a twofer is always a bonus.

      This is a threefer though. covers up payola, gets at Dean and the leftie blogs. trifecta going on.

    •  i agree that dean is the target (none / 0)

      note that as this story has been played out on tv, there hasn't been direct reference to the site, but "the blogs" (no free publicity for you markos!) as a result, the ugly glare remains on dean, who is shown as still associating himself with those crazy bloggers and now, in an underhanded sort of way. so now he's both nutty AND dishonest.

      i think the right is clearly invested in taking dean down for a second time. but i know i am interesting in seeing how howard to this. i'm not worried about kos. i already know he's smart, sharp and aggressive and will attack this head on. i just hope dean comes out guns blazing too.

      •  Howard (none / 0)

        probably has no idea whether his campaign hired Markos and Jerome for one reason or another.  Unless, that is, he is some kind of manic micromanager.

        I could be wrong, but I doubt he's going to come out guns blazing to defend his honor.

        •  so he should say nothing? (none / 0)

          lol. perhaps guns blazing was a little strong, but i think he's clearly being implicated here and needs to address it in some way.

          and i have to retract what i said about the shows not mentioning the blogs by name. i just read a post in which oreilly or his guest specifically said dailykos

          •  Well (none / 0)

            he shouldn't lie.

            If he wants to call Zephyr a liar, then he should first find out if she is.  And by this I mean, did she lie about the motives of the people doing the hiring.

            Because that is the part that reflects badly on Dean.  And he probably doesn't know what their motives were.

            I'm not taking sides, just thinking things through here.

            •  i'm not taking sides either (none / 0)

              i wasn't part of the primary craze so i didn't ever experience that dean love that i see expressed so often on this site. on the other hand, i think he'd make a great dnc chair so i hate to see him get sullied by this.
              •  I worked like a dog (none / 0)

                to make sure Kerry beat Dean, and I even promoted Clark as a backup plan.

                But I also think Dean would be the best DNC chair right now.

                I don't want to see him sullied.

                But I think this story has minimum impact for Dean.  

                If it was meant to weaken him, the way the GOP pounced on it, has torpedoed the original plan.

                •  fair enough (none / 0)

                  but i argue that he's still getting splattered by the paint. if there is an issue with dean among those who don't know better, it's that he's too radical. this mini-scandal certainly doesn't desconstruct that view, rather it shores it up.

                  so let's have friday night fun and pretend for a moment, booman, that you are his advisor. what would you advise him to do? (just so you know--there will be NO consultation fees for your response.)

                  •  I'd tell him to (none / 1)

                    question his IT guys and ask them why they were hired, how much they were paid, whether they were paid more than normal, and if so, why?

                    If they tell him Zephyr is telling the truth, then I tell him to ignore the story.

                    If they tell him Zephyr is totally full of shit, then I tell him to call her and ask her to recant her bullshit and go on TV to do it.

                    And if she refuses, I privately send word she's a third-rate cunt and impossible to work with, and disloyal, and dishonest to every Dem activist in the business.

                    And then I tell him to bludgeon Bush over Armstrong Williams and demand an investigation of who else is on the take.  First stop: Leno.

                    •  somehow i can't see the good doctor (none / 0)

                      using the c-word.

                      the question is, what is there to recant at this point? to me the central point is that the money kos received was from a private source. it wasn't taxpayer money. as well, armstrong was pretending to be impartial, kos never has. the only person who seemed to be truely unfairly tarred was jerome.

                      as for leno, i disagree. this story would go waaay over his audience's heads. how about we start with air america, though he was just on randi's show a few days back.

                      •  No I said 'I' would use the 'c' word (none / 0)

                        I'm his campaign manager, remember?

                        On Leno: he doesn't tell them THIS story.  He tells them the Bush/Armstrong story.  And he does it on a show that is supposed to promote his DNC candidacy.  See the logic?

                        People who watch MTP or listen to Air America already know this shit.  But Leno watchers don't know jack about their money being spent to have a right-wing black man tell them what to think about education.  

                        •  haha! (none / 0)

                          thank you for that clarification on the c-word!

                          okay okay, i'm feeling the leno thing a little more. i just don't know if leno would have 'em. his booker might think that the idea of bringing on dean cause he's running for dnc chais is also waaay over the audience's head. how about snl instead?

                          •  Dean (none / 0)

                            can get booked for a variety of reasons.

                            On the downside: he can be booked just because he is famous for the scream.  Leno can always ask him about and Dean can get self-depracating laughs.  Very humanizing.  

                            On the upside: he has the most loyal constituency of any candidate from '04.  Many Deaniacs will tune in and help the ratings.

                            I am almost sure I have seen Terry McAuliffe on Leno... so there is a precedent.

                            And most importantly Howard has 'Big Nuts' and is liable to say anything.  That's always good in a guest...nothing better than having clips of your show being played all over cable news.

          •  Today Judy Wood-ruff (none / 0)

            did a bit and had Dkos main page up full screen on CNN for at least 30 seconds, including the picture of the little one pissing on the giant W.

            It's Obamazing!!!!!!!!!!!!

            by Chamonix on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:24:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  not true (none / 0)

        I was watching Inside Politics out of the corner of my eye when all of a sudden I noticed an orange website with some dude waving the flag.

        I had the volume turned down, not on mute (where the closed caption turns on) but I couldn't find the remote.

        I don't know exactly what was said, but a Kos screenshot did spend a lot of time on CNN today.

        •  i took that statement back (none / 0)

          a couple comments down from the original one.

          that must have been funny to see kos up there on the big screen. i was in the library the other day and there was a guy next to me with a laptop. i looked over and he was reading dailykos. i almost wanted to ask him if he was registered, but part of me was afraid to find out he was someone that annoys me. ahem, not that i don't LOVE everyone who posts here.

  •  RE (none / 1)

    Well, the dailykos was a pretty weird (and uncomfortable for many non-Dean supporters)  back when it was pretty much Blog For American West (i.e., Fall and Winter 2003).  

    At that time, I faulted Kos for stating on the front page that the community should stop criticizing both Dean and Clark because in a month's time we (Democrats I presume) are going to have to get behind one of those candidates (that was indeed the level optimism about Dean and Clark at one point here), yet while saying we should stop criticizing Dean and Clark Kos himself continued his tough rhetoric on other candidates, particularly the eventual nominee, John Kerry.

    While I don't remember how immediately Kos made the dkos community aware of his financial rewards from the Dean campaign - I believe it was fairly shortly after contracting with Dean.  As an aside that would be kind of interesting to when the contracts was made and disclosure then given just as a little history of that time period here at dkos.  My apologies if that information has already been disclosed.

    However, any analogy to the Armstrong Williams payola is misplaced and just a transparent attempt by Rethugs to muddy the waters.  Wiliams never disclosed his conflict - Kos very cleary did.  End of story.

    ... now watch this drive.

    by jg on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:39:35 PM PDT

    •  Non-Dean Supporters (none / 0)

      Well, the dailykos was a pretty weird (and uncomfortable for many non-Dean supporters)  back when it was pretty much Blog For American West (i.e., Fall and Winter 2003).

      My point here is that in the Fall of 2003 Markos chose one of those non-Dean supporters to be one of the two people to post on his site without constant oversight or editorial instructions.  

      Your point about Markos continuing to level harsh criticism against Kerry is valid, but as I'm sure you would admit, there's nothing to insist that it wasn't sincere belief separate from Kerry's position in relation to Howard Dean.  It was pretty clear to me from early on that, for whatever reasons, Markos just didn't like Kerry or think he would be a good candidate, and his criticism of Kerry wasn't much different when nobody thought he had a chance than it was when it was clear that he had regained his strength and could actually win the nomination.  

      In short, I don't think Markos needed to be paid to write harsh things about Kerry; he was more than happy to do it free of charge.  

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by DHinMI on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:47:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So did we all (none / 1)

        and rightly so in that time frame particularly. Kerry SUCKED!

        Everybody dies alone.

        by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:08:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  RE (none / 0)

        Well, you and I were both around when the nonsense was going on here - the Deaniacs abusing the rating system for anyone that dare say anything critical of Dean.  And Kos was quite clearly trying to balance his obvious push for Dean and while at the same making this place still tolerable for those that did not support Dean.  I think his record on doing this was mixed.  The most outrageous comment being that we should stop criticising Dean and Clark (again the balancing act although iirc Clark was Kos's second choice) while at the same time frontpaging harsh material on other candidates, particularly Kerry.  

        I was here and commenting a lot during that time and, like I said I think, Kos was working a balancing act which in my own opinion he often failed at performing well.  

        Regularly commentators at that time knew of Kos's disclosure - although I would still be interested to know when Kos started receiving payment from Dean and when he disclosed said payment. But again, that is just for own interest in understanding that odd period of time here at dkos.  

        ... now watch this drive.

        by jg on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:14:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  RE (none / 0)

        "I don't think Markos needed to be paid to write harsh things about Kerry; he was more than happy to do it free of charge."

        I never alleged that Kos was or had to be paid to write negative comments about Kerry or anyone else - I am sure Kos clearly didn't care much for Kerry long before he became enamored with Dean.  But when one or two candidates get a pass and the rest get skewered and couple that with a financial interest in one of those candidates getting the pass, eyebrows are raised, are they not?  And they were raised back in the day by me and others here. It never bothered me enough to get me to stop contributing (it too the reelection of Bush to get me to lose interest in US politics (at least temporarily) to dkos, but I read everything by Kos and Jerome Armstrong thefeafter mindful of their bias.

        ... now watch this drive.

        by jg on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:41:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Funny thing (none / 0)

      We kept ripping the shit out of Dean and Clark and everybody else.

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:07:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Shit (4.00 / 4)

    Markos hired me as a guest blogger during the heart of primary season, and I was an open and notorious Gephardt partisan. Dean wasn't getting his money's worth.
  •  Don't Get Swift Boated.... Fight Back! (3.71 / 7)

    You are right. Kos is right. Jerome is right.
    Now, one of you go on O'Reilly and call the bastard a liar before its too late. Get MediaMatters to flay those clowns on Crossfire, or bombard the everbody who carries the latest, most exaggerated, version of the story.

    As somebody who truly cares about the DailyKos and for Markos as a human being trying to have a career and raise a family and be an activist blogger... don't let a little aside in ABC's pitiful 'The Note' or an aside at the online version of the CJR deter a major pushback.

    Its not enough to spend a day pooh-poohing Zepelin Turnstiles, or whatever her name is, tell your side TO US at the DailyKos, and hope this all blows away because you all told the truth and this is all bullshit. Of course you told the truth and this is all bullshit. But this bullshit is starting to get picked up and played telephone with in the media. I really believe that this one is going to require some serious roll up your sleeves and raise hell blowback... before Kos and Jerome get 'spun' as the most corrupt people on the internet since spammers.

    The one thing I kept hearing over and over again during the 2004 campaign was that John Kerry was truly screwed because he didn't, or his campaign managers didn't, take the Swift Boat Liars seriously enough and come out swinging like his life depended on it. The WSJ piece was hackwork, true. But it is growing bigger than the WSJ hack piece... this has been picked up and further distorted by O'Reilly, it has been blown up and distorted on Crossfire, and now some hack on Slate is accusing Markos of basically being the left's 'Armstrong Williams' and that people should consider any candidate that Kos is supporting to be 'cutting him an undisclosed check'. Its a lie, a pack of lies, but its getting out of hand.

    Seeing Kos respond 'how do you respond to a non-issue' reminds me, dangerously so, of the response that people who should have known better gave after John O'Neil and his cabal of creeps began flinging accusations and smears around. How do you respond? Like somebody just called your mother a whore. Get pissed and start defending yourself before you end up in the same toilet that Dean did after the 'scream' and Kerry did after he let the Swiftees slide. You come out swinging and return fire like your credibility and your ability to earn a living as an activist blogger without slimeballs like Wolf Blitzer opening any story about Kos with 'Infamous liberal payola blogger Markos 'Zuniga' of the DailyKos is under scrutiny again for....'. This isn't about Matt Drudge... this is about the so-called liberal media starting to pick up a wingnut spinjob and playing telephone with it as they go.

    Remember this:
    'John Kerry earned his medals... who is going to believe these liars over a decorated war vet?'

    How about this:
    'Kos is a vet, a respected blogger, he served his country with honor in and out of the service and is an ethical and honest political activist who disclosed his connection to the Dean campaign with a disclaimer clearly on his site. Who is going to believe this horsecrap when a simple investigation will show the truth?'

    The Answer: Lots of people.

    In fact... millions of people. I hate to say this so crudely, but lots of people out there on the other end of the great echo chamber are stupid as hell and just nod 'yes' whenever Bill O'Reilly says the moon is made of green cheese. O'Reilly just said to millions of people that the Dean campaign paid Kos 300,000 dollars a month, then corrected it to 3,000, and said that Kos hid this from the public. He didn't just say that Kos was equal to Armstrong Williams, he actually gaffed and said that Kos was paid MORE than Williams. And we all know that to the echochamber, if you make a penny more than somebody else accused of wrongdoing... its instantly a thousand times more corrupt. Watch Robert Novak's column in the next few days... his nonsensical vomit meekly countered by the Paulie 'no nuts' Begala was a little too pointed to believe that he wasn't going to do his share of pigpiling in print after his little Crossfire rant.

    FORGET the truth, the truth has NOTHING to do with the so-called liberal media and the wingnut echochamber. If this gets let go... you can be sure than Kos will be seen as WORSE than Armstrong Williams in just a matter of time.

    And we will be posting 'What the FUCK just happened?' diaries before we all know it.

     

    "Arguments are extremely vulgar, for everyone in good society holds exactly the same opinion." - Oscar Wilde

    by LeftHandedMan on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 09:55:36 PM PDT

  •  Honestly (none / 0)

    I honestly, down to my very bones, don't understand how KOS can be compared to Williams. I think this is a losing issue for anyone who wants to make it, even in the extremely dumbed down world of mass media.

    This is a classic example of the media starving for equivalency.

    Bush could murder a child on public television and the mainstream press would report that Bruno Richard Hauptmann was a Democrat.

    This is the most tragically ridiculous "scandal" I have ever heard. What a bunch of worms (with apologies to worms).

    -bp

  •  What Not to Do (none / 0)

    Why keep writing about this stupid non-story?  Why keep justifying yourself when there is nothing to apologize for?  All you do is keep it alive and make people think there must be at least a little fire behind all the smoke.  Fuck them.  Not even Zephyr is saying Markos or Jerome did anything wrong.  This dumb story was written up more than a year ago.  Sometimes it's hard to do, but just keeping quiet and letting the story die is often the best you can do.  That's certainly the case here.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:27:46 PM PDT

    •  Um hmm (4.00 / 2)

      See Kerry, Swift Boats.

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:29:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Science? (none / 0)

        You may be right and we may get a chance to see, but I doubt it.  Kerry kicked back (though there was plenty of blogging that debunked the Swift Boat Liars); Jerome and Markos have come out swinging.  But there won't be a bottom line measure for the bloggers like there was for Kerry.  DKos won't win or lose on this.  

        The overwhelming majority of people who read this blog know the story is full of shit and the only people influenced by O'Reilly et al will be brain dead morons who watch TV and read the local shopper for their news.  My guess is