Daily Kos

The Real Issue

by DavidNYC

Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:15:38 PM PDT

Let's not lose track of what the real issue is here:


Markos MoulitsasJerome ArmstongArmstrong Williams
Paid by:Dean campaign (a private organization)Dean campaign (a private organization)Taxpayer dollars
For the following activities:Technical consultingTechnical consultingShilling for "No Child Left Behind" Act
Prophylactic measures taken:Prominent disclaimer on websitePut website on hiatus None - concealed the money he received


Sorry, but there just isn't any comparison.
  • ::

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Permalink | 108 comments

  •  So True But (4.00 / 2)

    the rebuttal presupposes there is a debate.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:37:42 PM PDT

    •  Approach (4.00 / 8)

      I understand and have thought long & hard about this school of thought, but I think this line of thinking is what led John Kerry not to respond to the Swifties. To be quite clear, all that that episode tells me is that the Kerry-style approach probably doesn't work (in this political environment anyway) - the heads-on approach may not work either, but I'm hoping it does.

      Swing State Project: Campaign & Election News

      by DavidNYC on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:41:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You're right (none / 1)

        to do it.

        Everybody dies alone.

        by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:42:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Nicely done. (none / 0)

        Even Bill O'Falafel should be able to follow that chart.

        Novakula can cheat off his paper.

        Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

        by boadicea on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:44:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  good idea (none / 0)

        This is concise and clear enough that anyone ought to see the obvious differences at a glance, even if they're not bloggers or familiar with what's going on.

        Sometimes ignoring does seem to work though, but I haven't figured out why.  Bush seems to be able to ignore some allegations (alleged drug use; awol from the national guard) and they seem to not hurt him too much.

        "See a world of tanks, ruled by a world of banks." —Sol Invictus

        by Delirium on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:45:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Agree, agree, agree (none / 0)

        No lie left unrebutted.

        And thanks for the summary, I've already used it in my email to Slate and Suellentrop and encourage all to do the same, or better yet, the similar (originality counts!)

        Markos Moulitsas:  Paid by: Dean campaign (a private organization)
        Jerome Armstong: Paid by: Dean campaign (a private organization)
        Armstrong Williams: Taxpayer dollars

        Markos Moulitsas: For the following activities: Technical consulting
        Jerome Armstong: For the following activities: Technical consulting
        Armstrong Williams: For the following activities: Shilling for "No Child Left Behind" Act

        Markos Moulitsas: Prophylactic measures taken: Prominent disclaimer on website
        Jerome Armstong: Prophylactic measures taken: Put website on hiatus
        Armstrong Williams: Prophylactic measures taken: None - concealed the money he received

        CaliBlogger.com A firm grasp of the obvious

        by CaliBlogger on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 01:23:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would be extremely interested in seeing (4.00 / 2)

          any Kos or Jerome blog commenter who is a teacher in an underfunded public school make a public comment on what the $240,000 paid to Armstrong Williams, illegally, could have bought for his/her particular school.

          The thing with Williams is not only that the sonofabitch got paid, but with taxpayer dollars, starving a school, or a number of schools, of money for resources, salaries, etc. to educate our kids.

          Which public school kid just couldn't learn math in a class the size it was because Armstrong got $240,000 and the school couldn't hire another math teacher?

          Which public school kid needed a speech therapist and couldn't get one because Amrstrong Williams got $240,000?

          Which public school doesn't have a good computer to teach kids who are not college-bound some computer literacy skills so they can get a good job, because Bush thought propaganda was more important than those kids?

          There are schools in our nation with leaky roofs, poor plumbing, falling down gymnasiums, broken lockers, no computers, miserable cafeterias, and which one of those schools didn't get proper funding because of Bush's decision to pay his little whore, Armstrong Williams?

          THIS is the issue.  

          by Kimberly Stone on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:17:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I say ... (none / 0)

      If they want to make the Williams' story even bigger with this weak stuff, let them.

      They have this weak crap and we have Williams' and a horde of FOIA pending. Keep the story fresh, keep it in people's minds. When it is revealed that half the wingnut payroll is filled with taxpayer dollars, they may rue the day.

      by Bald Peanut on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:41:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One more (4.00 / 2)

        They have this weak crap and we have Williams' and a horde of FOIA pending. Keep the story fresh, keep it in people's minds. When it is revealed that half the wingnut payroll is filled with taxpayer dollars, they may rue the day.

        Interesting point - if there's even one more Armstrong Williams lurking out there (and it stands to reason that there is), then I doubt even the GOP's legendary ability to go dumpster-diving for false equivalencies will help bail them out then.

        Swing State Project: Campaign & Election News

        by DavidNYC on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:45:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  No comment (none / 1)

    None is necessary, the chart speaks for itself.

    It is no accident that Liberty and Liberal are the same word.

    by Sorceress Sarah on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:38:49 PM PDT

  •  You liberals make things too complicated (4.00 / 11)

    Jerome Armstong
    Armstrong Williams

    See? There's the connection right there.

    You're being way too analytical here. I think I know what the problem is--you probably aren't getting your recommended daily allowance of right-wing radio.

    http://twitter.com/...

    by Renee in Ohio on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:39:24 PM PDT

  •  How about a Memory Hole (none / 0)

    image of the dKos front page, showing the disclaimer that sat there for months on end?

    Hey, I'll go look for it now!

    Si, se puede cambiar~~Yes, we can change~~Obama '08

    by Angie in WA State on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:40:00 PM PDT

    •  Media Matters (none / 0)

      Check here. I thought about putting links in but didn't want to clutter the chart. (Wayback Machine link courtesy Media Matters.)

      Swing State Project: Campaign & Election News

      by DavidNYC on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:42:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Better yet (none / 1)

        Here

        excerpt:

        Daily Kos: Full Disclosure

        "Clarification: Before your speculations get too out of hand, let me just make clear that we are not in charge of anything over at Dean for America. We are merely technical advisors. It's really not that big of a deal. On some of the other races we are/will be working, our role will be much bigger. But Dean already has a capable web and technology team. We are just being plugged in to that already successful group of people."

        'Cmon.  How much more could they be asking for.  'Full Disclosure' seems to pretty well sum it up.

        Si, se puede cambiar~~Yes, we can change~~Obama '08

        by Angie in WA State on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:49:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  a suggestion on wording (none / 1)

        I suggest you change the word 'shilling' to 'promoting'. This is a smart concise graph that clearly summarizes the issues and it might get picked up by other sources. It is a touch less partisan and every bit as clear if you substitute the less derogatory 'promoting' for the admittedly accurate 'shilling'.

        "Nothing seems to embarrass the political class today." - Bill Moyers

        by joejoejoe on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:45:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Arrrrg (none / 0)

        Someone slap Begala upside the head.  He ties it back to the Armstrong Williams case.  We need real pundits making our case, not ones who bring up the other sides deepest wishes.

        I am so tired of the ineffectual, uninformed, and even disastrous response by the commentators supposedly balancing the right wing nut jobs.

        "...what Washington means by bipartisanship is mainly that everyone should come together to give conservatives what they want." --- Paul Krugman

        by puppet10 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:47:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  oops (none / 0)

          parent post meant as response to great grandparent - the media matters link to the novak begala transcript.

          "...what Washington means by bipartisanship is mainly that everyone should come together to give conservatives what they want." --- Paul Krugman

          by puppet10 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:49:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ignore last post (none / 0)

            comment moved around in the thread on reload - bug in scoop?

            "...what Washington means by bipartisanship is mainly that everyone should come together to give conservatives what they want." --- Paul Krugman

            by puppet10 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:51:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, but (4.00 / 3)

    Democrats are stupid.

    Sincerely,
    Bill O'Reilly

    "Now watch this drive..."

    by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:40:01 PM PDT

  •  Do you hear a giant zucking sound? (none / 0)

    Armstrong-Zuniga = Amrstong Williams???

    Bob Brigham Blog

    by blogswarm on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:40:32 PM PDT

  •  The real question is (4.00 / 2)

    can this percolate through to the pre-Cambrian layer that houses what in the RWCM passes for a brain?

    I certainly hope so, but I ha' me doobts.

    Our Man in Redmond is now Omir the Storyteller

    by Our Man In Redmond on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:40:58 PM PDT

  •  Good n/t (none / 1)

    Everybody dies alone.

    by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:41:24 PM PDT

    •  Here is my take. First I 2nd the good. (none / 0)

      And I add this:

      The neoconservative propagandists will use this to muddy the waters and to foster cognitive dissonance in their ranks.  They will do this no matter if Kos responds or not.  They create their own reality, and so what we do doesn't matter.  Remember O'Reily on Outfoxed just making stuff up?  It does not matter what we do - in the context of what they do.

      So how can this be used for us - irregardless of how we want to "attack" the right wing propagandist machine?  First, our audience is not the right wing audience.  Not for this this, anyways.  Our audience is from Joe Lieberman to Dennis Kucinich.  So what do we want to say to this audience?

      1. We exist.  It is spelled "M-A-R-K-O-S."  The site is http://dailykos.com.  We are here.
      2. We are trustworthy.  See how he handled it...
      3. We fight the right.  We fight fair, but we fight hard and head on.

      That is how I suggest the response to this be considered.  Remember, O-Reilly is useful to us not because how he will help reach his audience, but how he'll help us reach ours.  

      1. Make jokes about this, get comedians on board
      2. Be the David v Goliath, get liberal news magazines to highlight it
      3. Make it into a case study and example

      by Tom Kertes on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:37:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Williams and Kos aren't the issue either (4.00 / 2)

    They could give a shit about Kos and they'll let Williams twist in the wind.  There's only one person they're afraid of and who they're trying to slime in every way they can.  Sliming Kos is just a side effect, not that they mind that.

    Dean for DNC chair.

    Hawkish on impeachment.

    by clyde on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:42:19 PM PDT

  •  And that's the trooth (none / 0)

    plllbbtttt!

    Full Disclosure: I am Chair of the Darius Shahinfar for Congress Campaign Committee in NY-21.

    by Andrew C White on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:50:06 PM PDT

  •  Very well done. (none / 1)

    This is the most productive reaction so far.  I like it.

    Focus on this theme, instead of blaming progressive allies who've made some mistakes.

    Take this theme to the WSJ, Begala, Novak, and anyone else who implies there are similarities.

    by susan on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:52:43 PM PDT

  •  Great visual presentation of data ! / NT (none / 0)

    Talk to Action

    by Troutfishing on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:54:10 PM PDT

  •  perfect. (none / 1)

    Is there any way to leave this at the top of the page for the next few days?  

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

    by Susan1138 on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:55:34 PM PDT

  •  another comparison for the chart? (4.00 / 3)

    number of FCC and possible GAO investigations.
    Markos - 0
    Jerome Armstrong - 0
    Armstrong Williams - 2

    by compass rose on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:55:46 PM PDT

  •  Inspiration (4.00 / 3)

    P.S. This comment by Coldblue Steele inspired me to create the chart - I saw the word "contrast" and thought "voila!"

    Swing State Project: Campaign & Election News

    by DavidNYC on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 10:59:08 PM PDT

  •  Let it go already. (none / 0)

    ABC's The Note, CJR's Campaign Desk and Dan Gillmore  hit the right note (nothing there) and aimed at the right target (the WSJ's abysmal reporting) on this issue. How long and how many threads must show up on the front page of DailyKOS to beat this dead horse? Partisan enemies just love that it keeps getting flogged. Partisan supporters know the truth. The other 75-90 percent of the population doesn't give a damn.

    by Romberry on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:00:09 PM PDT

  •  Comparison is not the issue (none / 0)

    That is a logically fallacious and weak argument, which is not necessary in this case.

    Saying, "there isn't any comparison" is implying that kos's actions are not defensible on their own merits, but are merely "small potatoes" compared with William's venality and corruption. And it is implying that both cases are about disclosure, when actually the Armstrong case is about illegal influence by the government, while the kos issue is an argument about disclosure of an utterly legal and appropriate arrangement.

    Comparing the two is not a smart argument to make. That is playing within the frame-trap the Right has set up here.

    We should take a proactive and unapologetic position with regard to disclosure, and we should have a separarate discussion about government buying journalists, and journalists who are willing to be bought.

    Speaking of which, we should not be using the Williams case as an excuse to dump on all journalists. On the contrary, we should recognize how damaging and distressing this incident is to the vast majority of decent, honest journalists, who are committed making a difference every day of their lives - and, who, incidentally, are much more likely to die a violent death than most bloggers are. Journalists are not the villians here, any more than all soldiers are guilty of Graner's crimes. There is a culture that needs to be examined, in both cases, which allows such behavior to occur, and there needs most of all to be a focus on the Administration, in both cases, for corrupting the prison-guards and corupting the journalists.

    THat is a frame worth pursuing, perhaps.

    Drive-by commenting is such fun!

    by galiel on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:01:01 PM PDT

    •  Disagree and Agree (none / 0)

      the comparison is necessary. The notion of ignoring existing frames simply doesn't work. I've heard this kind of approach being suggested for the War on Terror. It simply does not wrok in my opinion.

      You must debunk the frame, not ignore it. This debunks it.

      Agree that ONCE that is done, the discussions are broken out, But this first step is essential.

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:15:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Good Points, But... (none / 0)

      Upthread I suggested adding another row, with the legal/illegal comparison added.

      That way you start out sort of gentle, and accepting the frame that there is a comparison, and you end up hitting them over the head that the difference is jail time.

      Try it out and see if it works for you.

      Blog: "Patterns That Connect" Current Dkos Diary: here

      by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:39:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well stated (none / 0)

    And isn't it time for progressive Democrats to have representation among the talking heads?  15 years ago a neoconservative was a rarity on cable commentaries and Sunday morning shows.  Now they're a fixture and the Democratic counterpoint is usually a tired, inside-the-beltway player.

    by ChgoSteve on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:02:27 PM PDT

  •  add a row (4.00 / 3)

    Exposed via disclaimer and openly discussed openly discussed FOIA

    That's not flying, that's falling with style - Woody

    by pvjeff on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:04:11 PM PDT

  •  Is This All They Got? (none / 0)

    CJR nailed it. I would think they would go back to the Clinton administration to find something comparable to Armstrong Williams. Wasn't Blumenthal working for a newsweekly before he worked for Clinton? It seems that alot of the media resented how partisan Blumenthal was. Again not comparable. No money was exchanged. But they have to get something more credible in their "everybody does it" defense.  

    by HL Mungo on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:07:44 PM PDT

    •  Look, Armstrong Williams Has Fingers, Markos Has (none / 1)

      fingers. They're the SAME, see?

      And Michael Moore wears a hat!

      Blog: "Patterns That Connect" Current Dkos Diary: here

      by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:42:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So they both have fingers! (none / 0)

        I am sure I will hear that repeated in the journalist rountables on the Sunday News shows.

        This is all too funny in quite a pathetic way. The twisted irony is that this small epidemic of lousy journalism coverage is about a guy whose very popular website frequently takes on the subject of lousy journalism coverage. And WSJ didn't even get his name right to begin with!!

        This is twisted. Not up there with Bremer and Tenet getting medals, but still pretty twisted.  

        by HL Mungo on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 04:13:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Letter to Paul Gigot WSJ (4.00 / 2)

    January 15, 2005

    Dear Sir;

    I'm disappointed in the Wall Street Journal.   It
    was absurd for James Bandler and Bill Bulkeley to
    equate Daily Kos and MyDD consulting fees with the
    Bush party use of tax dollars for propaganda. The
    January 14th article, which sought to connect these
    payments with the illegal Bush/Armstrong Williams
    $240,000 payola scandal, in which the administration
    used public money to promote its No Child Left Behind
    policy, attempted to promote a false apples to oranges
    argument to its readers.   Daily Kos and MyDD were
    straightforward tech consultants for the Dean
    Campaign.  Furthermore, Daily Kos, which was the only
    one of the two blogs that published during the
    campaign, posted the connection prominently on the
    front blog page.  

    The Wall Street Journal article was so egregious that
    the Columbia Journalism Review created an entirely new
    award for its lazy use of equivalence. I would suggest
    that the Wall Street Journal, which I, heretofore,
    regarded as an honest newspaper, make a point of
    reporting honestly.

    Respectfully,
    Harriet Warnock-Graham
    Maumee, Ohio

    (1118 Ogontz Ave., Maumee, OH 43537-Phone 419 839
    8803)

    The truth about John McCain

    by tikkun on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:10:13 PM PDT

  •  Markos and Jerome should write Op Eds (4.00 / 2)

    Someone at MyDD rightly suggested that this is a perfect opportunity to go on the offensive.

    An even better "comparison" is the case of the bloggers paid (far more) to shill for the Thune campaign in SD who DIDN'T disclose their funding. Funny thing is the LRWM (lying right wing media) showed absolutely NO INTEREST in their obvious ethical violation.

    AFTER raising that issue, THEN Markos and Jerome could go on to the even more egregious Williams case.  Bringing up the irony of Bob Novak flogging this horse given his own "ethics free zone" (as the Washington Monthly called it) could be the icing on the cake.

    So how about it boys?  Remember, the pen is mightier than the sword -- and easier to write with as well. (Benny Hill)

    Barack Obama personifies the American dream

    by Jim in Chicago on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:10:39 PM PDT

  •  When to ignore? - visuals, sound? (none / 1)

    Sometimes ignoring bad press is the best strategy; someone commented upthread that Bush does that often.  I've advised it often when people want to write angry defensive letters about bad press.

    So, when should bad press be taken head-on?  I think it takes some calculation of how long the story will stay in the mainstream media and how many people will be influenced by the story.  That's somewhat hard to predict.  But, a few factors I've noticed are that good video footage has the longest shelf life.  

    One reason the Dean speech in Iowa (it's still hard for me to call it a scream, since I couldn't hear it and I was right there) lasted so long and created a memorable impression on the public for almost a year now... is that there was a video with interesting visual and sound.  The Abu Grahib photos were something that Bush may have wanted to ignore, but they had such strong visuals that they lasted many media cycles.  You get my point.

    In this case, it's all very cerebral.  Who was paid by whom for writing or speaking...  I don't think this will have a long shelf life, and I'm guessing it's mostly cerebral bloggers (myself included) who are worked up about it, and the mainstream media will be done with it very soon.  But, I don't claim to have a crystal ball.

    by susan on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:13:11 PM PDT

    •  I think it may have a life (none / 0)

      since the neo-conservative hacks know that it will help them with their propaganda to muddy the waters a bit.

      Fine - they will do that anyways.  So what can we do to make the story work for us?  Well, we can make sure that they spell kos's name right and get the url right.  And bring more liberals to this site and to kos's message.  

      Since they neo-conservatives will use this no matter what, so should we.

      by Tom Kertes on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:28:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  beautiful (none / 1)

    you must fight them every step of the way.

    if not now, when?

    Gore/Feingold '08

    by JoelK in AZ on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:13:20 PM PDT

  •  Great. We're smart and f*ck em all. n/t (none / 0)

    by Liberation Learning on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:20:55 PM PDT

  •  Don't bore them with the facts! (none / 0)

    Kos and Jerome really need to hit back hard on this. They should DEMAND equal time in the WSJ and on CNN and even on Bill O'Reilly. They won't be feeding the story if they do so. They will be defending their most valuable asset: their reputation.

    May you live in Interesting Times

    by Chris Andersen on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:24:31 PM PDT

  •  Another useful row... (none / 0)

    ...would show the $ amounts involved.

    Social advance depends as much upon the process through which it is secured as upon the result itself. --Jane Addams

    by shock on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:30:35 PM PDT

  •  Bunk (none / 0)

    Markos:

    Don't worry about all that bullshit.  

    People who have been coming to your blog know that you are a man of absolute integrity, authenticity, and honesty.

    by The Fool on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:32:18 PM PDT

  •  Why this happened (none / 0)

    The Media today thrives on the 'But both Sides Do It' bullpucky.

    They SEARCHED HARD to find this, made up their minds while ignoring the facts, and have set up this as the 'balance' to Armstrong Williams.  They had to do it because otherwise they'd have to do real work and say George Bush is a lying, manipulative propagangist with no right to the white house.  Now its 'The Democrats do it too' (as usual) and there will be NOTHING we can do about it.

    We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

    by ScrewySquirrel on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:50:48 PM PDT

    •  Re: Why this happened (none / 0)

      During the election campaign I always wondered how the Bush campaign managed to get the right wing pundits on message so quickly and consistently. I believe that Armstrong Williams provides a plausible explanation for this behavior. The FCC does not regulate speech on the Internet, but they do have regulations that apply to broadcast and cable media. As I'm sure most readers here are aware, Williams acceptance of payola and failure to disclose are punishable by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than one year or both. I do find it interesting the FCC Chairman Powell has decided to include only one station in his investigation, since I understand that Williams actually pushed his propaganda on dozens of television and radio stations. If, as I've read, each incident represents a separate crime, the cumulative punishment could significantly exceed the $240,000 Williams received. Considering that Williams is probably not the only pundit that recieved payola, the fact that the conservative media are now busily trying to muddy the waters should come as no surprise.

      by scottp on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:20:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  KOS gets noticed (none / 0)

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Once you reached that position ...

    Keep up the excellent work
    and continue hurting them.

    In 2005 - Be Liberal Support our Allies of Democracy on Human Rights, Environment, Gay Rights and Minorities & EU and UN Development Programs Third World & Our Friends

    NEW DIARY - PROPAG - GOPUSA in Texas & UA Richard Powell Investigated

    by creve coeur on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 12:19:06 AM PDT

  •  Thousands? Try BILLIONS! (none / 0)

    Memo to Arm$trong William$: Here's where the REAL money is.

    by vaara on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 02:12:22 AM PDT

  •  nice chart. (none / 1)

    but the real issue is not that armstrong williams took money to support a government program. the real issue is that the bush administration paid him with taxpayers' money to lobby the american public on behalf of a program supported by the bush administtation and there was not disclosure that this was a paid political message. unacceptable.

    We get a lot of advice. We tend to listen when somebody's won something. - Joe Lockhart

    by yankeedoodler on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 02:13:03 AM PDT

  •  Let Logic Prevail! (none / 0)

    Great chart. Just had to say it.

    John McCreery "We have nothing to fear but fear of losing."

    by John McCreery on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 03:10:51 AM PDT

  •  Support (4.00 / 2)

    I've never posted here even though I read Kos daily, but I just wanted to say that I support Kos and don't think he's done anything wrong.

    Senator Feingold: American Hero.

    by Basil on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 03:18:16 AM PDT

  •  From a gentleman Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (none / 0)

    Seems an appropiate attitude on many occasions, also on DailyKos when tempers flare in a community FOR Democratic values.
    MY DEAR FELLOW CLERGYMEN:
    While confined here in the Birmingham City Jail, I came across your recent statement calling our present activities "unwise and untimely." Seldom, if ever, do I pause to answer criticism of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer all the criticisms that cross my desk, my secretaries would be engaged in little else in the course of the day, and I would have no time for constructive work. But since I feel that you are men of genuine goodwill and your criticisms are sincerely set forth, I would like to answer your statement in what I hope will be patient and reasonable terms.

    Martin Luther King, Jr. and progressive
    moral values  by Renee in Ohio

    In 2005 - Be Liberal Support our Allies of Democracy on Human Rights, Environment, Gay Rights and Minorities & EU and UN Development Programs Third World & Our Friends

    NEW DIARY - PROPAG - GOPUSA in Texas & UA Richard Powell Investigated

    by creve coeur on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 03:52:50 AM PDT

  •  Beautiful, man! (none / 0)

    Sums it up so clearly that even an idiot like Novak should be able to understand.

    We aren't expecting the Democrats to save us. Rather, we're working through the Democratic Party to save the country.

    by RT on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:03:17 AM PDT

  •  Hit em Hard (none / 0)

    Since the Right are obviously not fans of logic, reason, I won't be suprised next week to hear them vehemently trying to make this a story.

    I think Kos should pull a Repug style trick and loudly cry FOUL because they are attacking a man who served his country...;)

    by Burton Halli on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:16:32 AM PDT

  •  Don't Overreact (none / 1)

    The major issue here is the Bush administration illegally using taxpayer money to push its agenda.  All this other stuff is diversionary crap.

    by BobNJ on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 05:39:55 AM PDT

  •  Critical omission from Williams' column (none / 0)

    What he did is a federal crime.

    The payment to him is criminal. His acceptance of same probably i too.

    by Kimberly Stone on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:01:27 AM PDT

  •  This just tells me (none / 1)

    that the Bush admin. is worried about this story and that there is more out there to be unturned.  Also, maybe O'Reilly is worried too. Maybe he paid people to say things on his show or he is being paid himself.

    by LimosineLiberal on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:08:00 AM PDT

    •  If Faux News was smart... (none / 0)

      They wouldn't want anyone sniffing around their pundits too much. Isn't the head of Faux News a former Bush/ Cheney campaign staffer? I would not be suprised if they are an entire network of Armstrong Williams type shills. I know that not every person who touts Bush's policies is on the take (some are just assholes), but WOULDN'T YOU HAVE TO BE!!!

      by Burton Halli on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 07:25:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Too obvious! (none / 0)

    This should be a non-story!

    There is a monster difference between tax-payer dollars,
    and private money.

    The right has feelings of guilt, and there will be more guilt coming as we learn how many other pundints are paid with tax payer dollars to support Bush policies.

    Overthrow the Government ~Vote~

    by missliberties on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 08:16:47 AM PDT

  •  Writing the Wall Street Journal (none / 0)

    Not that I think they will give a shit, I just emailed the following to the editors and reporters:
    __________________
    To all:

    The WSJ's has every right to wear its' conservative editorial slant on its sleeve - i.e. - on the editorial pages. However, when its reporting becomes slanted to the point of irresponsibility, that is unacceptable. Your reporting on the Dean campaign use of bloggers was biased, irresponsible and shameful.

    Everyone knows that during the Presidential campaign, conservative commentator Armstrong Williams touted the Bush education policy and attacked its' detractors, while hiding the fact that he was on the public payroll. The WSJ should be outraged by such a misuse of taxpayer funds. But rather than outrage, your paper rolls out a story with a bogus comparison of the Dean campaign using private dollars to pay two independent bloggers for technical services.

    To make an absurd editorial point, your story neglected the fact that both Dean bloggers acted ethically rather than secretively. One of the bloggers suspended his site during the period he was working for Dean and the other's site displayed a clear notice that it was supported by Dean. A fair story might have noted how the bloggers acted ethically as compared to Mr. Williams, the Ketchum PR firm and the Department of Education.

    That the WSJ omitted crucial information about the bloggers so as to create a false comparison with the Williams situation, puts your own ethics in question.

    It looks like your reporters "fell in love" with the story and their superiors failed to dig a bit more deeply into its' POV and substance before putting it in print.

    After all the criticism of CBS and Dan Rather one would expect that esteemed media outlets like the WSJ would be more vigilant. Or is it that only the media that has an alleged liberal bias must play by the rules?

    Finally, your coverage begs the question of whether the Bush campaign provided secret financial support to conservative bloggers. There is little doubt that a vigorous investigative effort would uncover many instances of such. Also, in fairness, shouldn't the WSJ undertake a full investigation of the Ketchum government contracts.

    Richard Rust - Boston

    by richprust on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 09:25:01 AM PDT

  •  Great chart, DavidNYC! (none / 0)

    Edward Tufte would be proud of you.

    by baked potato on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 09:25:20 AM PDT

  •  no shit, just stop on this (none / 1)

    And don't let's forget to keep going after the Armstrong story.  If there is too much focus on defending kos, bloggers, it will be a new news cycle and the Armstrong shit will have effectively been forgotten.  We need to keep plugging away at that story, writing letters to the editor about it, whatever, to make sure the real injustice is taken care of.

    "Loyalty to country: always. Loyalty to government: when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

    by quackard on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 09:40:15 AM PDT

  •  what a joke (none / 0)

    There is no comparison.

    I can't believe even Fox News is spouting this bullshit. It's all about creating a smokescreen for Bush's illegal activities.

    They figure if they blame Democrats enough, everything will eventually pass over.

    by Banana Republican on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 09:49:06 AM PDT

  •  Quick take, from person who has no time (none / 0)

    to read all this -- as wonderful as some of the writing and thoughts must be -- to others under similar time pressure:

    REPUG Political Strategy 101 (taught by Professor Rove):

    1.  Throw mud.
    2.  See what sticks.
    3.  Pop a cold one; enjoy watching Dems scramble.
    4.  Repeat #1.

    Is there really anything else I need to know?

    If a thousand men were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State...

    by HenryDavid on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 11:22:16 AM PDT

  •  They're using you to cover. (none / 0)

    Weapons of mass destruction are the issue they are covering, and they're using Armstrong and you to do it.

    That's the synopsis, here's the article:
    http://watchingthewatchers.org/index.php?p=253

    ~A!

    WatchingTheWatchers.org

    by watchingthewatchers on Sat Jan 15, 2005 at 02:03:42 PM PDT

  •  GOP Did it Too!! (none / 0)

    In the recent South Dakota U.S. Senate election in which Sen. Tom Daschle was defeated by John Thune, Thune's campaign employed two bloggers as "Research Consultants" while they continued to blog on the race.

    Jon Lauck of http://daschlevthune.typepad.com/ was paid by the Thune campaign from June of 2004 until October of 2004. Lauck is also a Professor of History at South Dakota State University. Also, while blogging on the race, he wrote for The National Review Online in April and October of 2004.

    Jason VanBeek of http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/ was paid by the Thune campaign starting in July 2004. according to his blog, he is a new lawyer in South Dakota.

    Payments By Thune Campaign To South Dakota Bloggers

    Jon Lauck $4,500.00 10/1/2004 Research Consulting pg528

    Jason VanBeek $2,000.00 10/11/2004 Research Consulting Pg 510

    Jason VanBeek $2,000.00 10/1/2004 Research Consulting Pg 525

    Jon Lauck $4,500.00 6/4/2004 Listed as 'RESEARCH CONSULTING' on Page 864 of 2nd Quarter Report

    Jon Lauck $4,500.00 6/2/2004 Listed as 'RESEARCH CONSULTING' on Page 820 of 2nd Quarter Report

    Jason VanBeek $2,000.00 7/30/2004 Listed as 'RESEARCH CONSULTING' on Page 3429 of 3rd Quarter Report

    Jon Lauck $4,500.00 7/5/2004 Listed as 'RESEARCH CONSULTING' on Page 3356 of 3rd Quarter Report

    Jon Lauck $4,500.00 9/1/2004 Listed as 'RESEARCH CONSULTING' on Page 3314 of 3rd Quarter Report

    Jason VanBeek $2,000.00 8/31/2004 Listed as 'RESEARCH CONSULTING' on Page 3215 of 3rd Quarter Report

    Jon Lauck $4,500.00 8/3/2004 Listed as 'RESEARCH CONSULTING' on Page 3183 of 3rd Quarter Report

    Both Lauck and VanBeek now blog at http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/ which this Friday criticized Kos for doing much less for the Dean Campaign than what its founder and a contributor did for the Thune Campaign. The blogs in the South Dakota Senate election were used as instruments of the Thune campaign. Lets see if Novak calls this pay for play.

    by demconsultant on Sun Jan 16, 2005 at 02:13:33 AM PDT

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