Daily Kos

[War] Rolling Stone: "...he's got a plan to draft you."

Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 12:47:44 AM PDT

Tim Dickinson of Rolling Stone Magazine asks:

With the army desperate for recruits, should college students be packing their bags for Canada?

The draft issue is one way to bring the war home. The more that young Americans think of the war as something that may forced to participate in the more who will consider joining the anti-war ranks. Young Americans do not want to kill and do not want die for an illegal and immoral war.

Democrats and other progressives (who are opposed to illegal and immoral war) make a huge mistake by not making it clear that (1) there is a reasonable possibility for a draft and (2) a draft for an illegal, immoral and dangerous war is morally wrong.

The draft-issue is an opportunity to shift the discussion from one of logistical failure to moral failure. Read the Rolling Stone article to understand how the draft-issue brings the war home, and why it makes sense for Democrats to oppose the draft loudly, clearly and on moral grounds. (more on the article after fold)

Uncle Sam wants you. He needs you. He'll bribe you to sign up. He'll strong-arm you to re-enlist. And if that's not enough, he's got a plan to draft you.

Okay. Clear enough. This quote is worth repeating, and repeat it we should:

"...he's got a plan to draft you."

Uncle Sam wants you. He needs you. He'll bribe you to sign up. He'll strong-arm you to re-enlist. And if that's not enough, he's got a plan to draft you.

There is a reasonable possibility for the draft. This point is essential, because when we oppose the draft we assert this possibility. And with this possibility the war comes home.

Don't think that Rolling Stone knows shit? Here are some other sources that make this possibility realistic:

Not enough soldiers in military / plans are getting made:

"The Army's maxed out here," says retired Gen. Merrill McPeak, who served as Air Force chief of staff under the first President Bush. "The Defense Department and the president seem to be still operating off the rosy scenario that this will be over soon, that this pain is temporary and therefore we'll just grit our teeth, hunker down and get out on the other side of this. That's a bad assumption." The Bush administration has sworn up and down that it will never reinstate a draft. During the campaign last year, the president dismissed the idea as nothing more than "rumors on the Internets" and declared, "We're not going to have a draft -- period." Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in an Op-Ed blaming "conspiracy mongers" for "attempting to scare and mislead young Americans," insisted that "the idea of reinstating the draft has never been debated, endorsed, discussed, theorized, pondered or even whispered by anyone in the Bush administration."

That assertion is demonstrably false. According to an internal Selective Service memo made public under the Freedom of Information Act, the agency's acting director met with two of Rumsfeld's undersecretaries in February 2003 precisely to debate, discuss and ponder a return to the draft. The memo duly notes the administration's aversion to a draft but adds, "Defense manpower officials concede there are critical shortages of military personnel with certain special skills, such as medical personnel, linguists, computer network engineers, etc." The potentially prohibitive cost of "attracting and retaining such personnel for military service," the memo adds, has led "some officials to conclude that, while a conventional draft may never be needed, a draft of men and women possessing these critical skills may be warranted in a future crisis." This new draft, it suggests, could be invoked to meet the needs of both the Pentagon and the Department of Homeland Security.

What does Selective Service have to say?

Richard Flahavan, spokesman for Selective Service, tells Rolling Stone that preparing for a skills-based draft is "in fact what we have been doing." For starters, the agency has updated a plan to draft nurses and doctors. But that's not all. "Our thinking was that if we could run a health-care draft in the future," Flahavan says, "then with some very slight tinkering we could change that skill to plumbers or linguists or electrical engineers or whatever the military was short." In other words, if Uncle Sam decides he needs people with your skills, Selective Service has the means to draft you -- and quick.

No problem - I don't have any special skills, you think?

But experts on military manpower say the focus on drafting personnel with special skills misses the larger point. The Army needs more soldiers, not just more doctors and linguists. "What you've got now is a real shortage of grunts -- guys who can actually carry bayonets," says McPeak. A wholesale draft may be necessary, he adds, "to deal with the situation we've got ourselves into. We've got to have a bigger Army."

The article continues - with lots of reasons to not only assert the reasonable possibility of the draft - but reasons to be very very very concerned about this possibility. So why are Democrats and other progressives (1) saying it won't happen and (2) we want a draft? Hell if I know. The draft know is wrong - it would help the war effort get expanded. That is flat out wrong. And it is just stupid politics to support something that will be hugely unpopular and that can, if framed correctly, bolster opposition to the war (even if the draft never actually happens).

Last word goes to Rolling Stone:

In the end, it may simply come down to a matter of math. In January, Bush told America's soldiers that "much more will be asked of you" in his second term, even as he openly threatened Iran with military action. Another war, critics warn, would push the all-volunteer force to its breaking point. "This damn thing is just an explosion that's about to happen," says Rangel. Bush officials "can say all they want that they don't want the draft, but there's not going to be that many more buttons to push."

 

Draftfreedom.org Reality Campaign
Bring the war home to all Americans.

TomKertes.com

 

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Permalink | 140 comments

  •  And once you're in (4.00 / 2)

    it's tough to get out. My girlfriend is a tour guide at a SF landmark and was talking just today with two guys who were finishing their hitches, and they described the myriad hoops the Armed Forces require you to jump through in order to get out, including the practice of requiring you to attend a meeting about your status, but making it your responsibility to find out when and where the meeting is. Miss the meeting and they consider that an indication that you don't really want to get out. These guys said that the reason many people don't leave the military is because they don't have the stamina to get through it all.

    I want to die like my grandfather, peacefully in my sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    by incertus on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 01:04:31 AM PDT

  •  Thank you: (none / 0)

    lipris
    catfish
    bonobo
    Janet Strange
    bluerevolt
  •  I'd like to see Bush try .... (none / 1)

    after his repeated point-blank assertions that there would be no draft.  Of course flip-flopping and lying has never inhibited him before.  At least this time, though, I'm pretty sure Americans will remember what he said before.
    •  I wonder how they'd pull it off... (none / 0)

      but we can still use the draft issue to bring the war home, regardless of how hard it would be for bush to do it
      •  that's easy. (4.00 / 5)

        burn another reichstag.

        Headline coming soon to a news service near you:

        "US AGENTS THWART SECRET IRANIAN NUKE ATTACK"

        follwed by

        "RICE DISMISSES IRANIAN DISAVOWALS, CITING INTELLIGENCE"

        followed by

        "ASSASSINATION OF IRAQ OFFICIAL TIED TO IRAN"

        followed by carpet-bombing. And the draft.

        Ding, dong, the witch is dead.

        by RabidNation on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 03:38:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wouldn't matter (none / 0)

          First of all, Bush has never made the case for a draft, second, unless there was a terrorist attack on the US, no American is going to send their kid to die because Allawi got assassinated.

          These folks went to the well one too many times. Nothing Bush says will be regarded as credible. This is the draft, taking kids out of college and sending them to Iraq. Bush will have to make more of a case than something he said.

          Oh yeah, the 100,000 Iranian soldiers going for Baghdad might be a problem. See, don't forget Iran has a bunch of options, ending with a massive crossing of the frontier in combination with a Shia uprising.

          •  you're being (none / 1)

            way too reality-based.

            remember who we're dealing with here: a man whose mental screen is constantly re-running "davey and goliath" cartoons, surrounded by a phalanx of sycophants trying to curry favor by outdoing each other in extremism.

            Ding, dong, the witch is dead.

            by RabidNation on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 12:24:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Bush is used to (4.00 / 2)

          starting over from zero after digging himself a deep hole.  I'm sure he considers it his birthright.  It's been true with every business venture.  It's been true with his ne'er-do-well past after being born again.  He's made it clear that he considers his election to a second term a clean slate for him and his in terms of any Iraqi criticsim.  And remember his mantra: 9/11 changed everything.  Do you really think he won't repeat that with: the thwarted Iranian nuking changed everything?  Iran's assassination of Iraqi official changed everything?  Or heck, just change his tune tomorrow and deny he had ever said everything different.  Pravda (AKA Fox News) will back him up on it, and the lazy corporate media won't call him on it.  
          •  Actually... (none / 1)

            ...Bush's history is one of digging the giant hole, then walking away without a speck of dirt on him and leaving someone else to clean up the mess.

            In fact, I think that's the only way he could possibly claim a clean slate for his 2nd term - simply convincing himself that everything's been fixed and he can start fresh.

            How great must it be to be him?

            Democrats: For the health, prosperity and security of every single American.

            by alysheba on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:35:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  How about this... (none / 0)

          "NUCLEAR BOMB EXPLODES IN ANYTOWN"

          followed by

          "RICE: INTELLIGENCE INDICATES IRAN BEHIND ATTACK"

          followed by

          "ANALYSIS CONFIRMS NUCLEAR MATERIAL STOLEN FROM U.S."

          and so on.

          It wouldn't matter that it was our own nuclear material used in the bomb, the administration could "discover" some "missing" material.  OMFG, those bastards stole it from x country that we gave some material to for supposedly peaceful purposes!  Or perhaps we have some Russian plutonium lying around, in which case, it would even be believable that the material was acquired on the black market.  

          Some "thwarted plot" just wouldn't force most people to roll over and play dead..an actual attack probably would, although not likely quite as badly as after 9/11, I'm sure there would still be relative calm from the opposition...

      •  Maybe too JFK (none / 1)

        But is it possible that they could multi-task and allow something to happen here? Something like a dirty bomb linked somehow to Iran would make a draft possible without a bit of backlash.  And it might solidify their place in power as it would scare the masses even more.

        Barça: mas que un club!

        by cdmphy on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 11:32:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's been discussed here before (none / 0)

      I subscribe to Rolling Stone but haven't read this article yet.  However, here on dKos points have been raised in recent weeks:

      As reported by Sy Hersch, the Administration is already ramping up plans to attack Iran.  We should expect to see the "advertising" campaign begin pretty soon:  Iran has nukes, they will use them against us and our friends (really?  we have some left?), mushroom clouds, the whole nuk-u-lar threat thing that's even bigger than Saddam's WMD.  The sales pitch will justify them starting the war; the war will justify a draft, because oh look, we have this new war going on that we had to do to fight Iran over there instead of over here, so we need all these extra soldiers...

      Then the recent news items that the Rand Corporation is looking at ways to increase the fighting forces by outsourcing the administrative functions at the Pentagon and elsewhere in the armed services.  If you replace the paper pushers with contractors (Halliburton, anyone?), then you can move the paper pushers over to the front lines.  After all, they're already in uniform, signed up, so it's fair game to put them into service.

      It's all pretty disgusting.

      He has oil. He tried to kill my daddy.

      by kensa on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 06:56:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Clear eyed zealots (4.00 / 2)

      like my brother in law would be happy and proud to send his children (17 and 19  boys, 15 girl right now) to the draft.  He has made this statement, and would again.  If you are drinking the kool-aide, it does not matter what he did/did not say.  I these nutter's eyes, the cause is just, so the kids should proudly go.

      Absolutely astounding.  And scary.

      •  Then sign then up now. (none / 1)

        Let them go. Let them fight, kill children, lose arms. In fact, tell your moronic brother in law to god damm go himself! Why should his children have to suffer. If I was you, any time he brought it up I would shove a army pamphlet into his hand and tell him to put up or shut up.

        Impossible is nothing

        by DrSpike on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 12:01:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well... (none / 0)

          These are great kids.  Very liberal, democrats.  My sister in law is also a liberal democrat.  I do not want my nephews heading off to war.  That simple...

          I was making the point that Bush does not have to sell the draft.  All the kool-aide drinker have already bought in.

          •  I thought better of it (none / 0)

            that is why I said he should go, instead of his kids. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I work at UW-Madison and most all the students I teach are real heros. Most of them want to make a positive difference in the world. This is different than 10 years ago, students at that time were more interested in getting ahead and making money. It gives me hope for the future.

            Impossible is nothing

            by DrSpike on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:46:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Do adult "kids"... (none / 0)

        really sign up or not sign up at their parents' whim? I hear this implied over and over, that it is somehow the parents who decide....
        •  do parents make decicions for 18 yr old kids? (4.00 / 2)

          They do if the 18 year old "kid" is living at home with free rent, free food, no job, etc.  I'll admit that few parents take their kids to a recruiting station and say, "Sign up or find a cardboard box to live in."  But when those "kids" get their draft cards, it will be the parents with the purse strings who decide if they get a plane ticket to Canada or a free trip to the Middle East.

          9.2 has two digits. Therefore Pennsylvania was a double digit win.

          by jerseycorn on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 12:27:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Does anyone really think.... (none / 0)

      .... Bush would reinstate the draft? Bush is lying criminal, but not one for committing political suicide. He will cripple the Republican party for atleast a decade. Talk is cheap and the Republican base is full of it. I bet loads of money that a lot of the hawks are really chickens.
  •  I am so glad My children are not (none / 0)

    available. Teach your children to say "No" to war.

    "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

    by roseeriter on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 03:25:29 AM PDT

  •  Exit Strategy for american kids. (none / 1)

    Tom, I think we've touched on this before, but I think it's time to start putting together resources for exactly HOW to get out of America, WHERE to go, WHY to leave, and what you need to make it work for kids who don't want to be part of Genocide George's Armageddon Army.

    I've not looked into what resources are already out there. But I'm certain that it wouldn't hurt to supplement what already exists.

    Ding, dong, the witch is dead.

    by RabidNation on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 03:40:58 AM PDT

    •  We are, like, 50% done with that (none / 1)

      it exists from others as well, but in ugly form

      and I am getting lots of emails now, asking for help just like this

      yes, I agree ---- this is critical

      •  do you have hosting hooked up? (none / 0)

        & do you want to integrate material into the "new" black-thursday as that is developed? invite's open.

        I've been bad about getting back w/ everyone on email, btw, with whom I've been discussing various initiatives. I know you're one of these. just have to wade through all the stuff here...but will get there.

        Ding, dong, the witch is dead.

        by RabidNation on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 03:54:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Michael Moore should tackle this (4.00 / 2)

          His next film should expand upon the Marine-recruiter segments of "F9/11" and go into detail on future draft plans and how people can escape them.

          My husband is a surgeon.  He's older - in his early 40s - but if they go to a physicians/nurses draft they might take him.  Surgeons are in great demand in the armed forces, as you can imagine.  If it comes to that, we'll move to Canada.  They need surgeons there too.

          Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night

          by hrh on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:20:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  So..... (none / 1)

        Do you tell them about three things:

        One: an induction letter follows them anywhere on the planet. Just because you live in London does not mean you can avoid the draft board. They will still require you to report and if you don't charge you with draft evasion.

        Two: the serious, lifelong consequences of draft evasion. The fact that if they leave the United States, they may never, as in NEVER  be able to return to the United States, and if they are arrested overseas, be deported and face either jail or induction upon return to the United States. That means no return for funerals, weddings or anything else.

        Three: Draft evasion is a federal crime. Which means ANYONE helping you evade the draft may face federal charges. If you help sneak someone in or out, you could face years in jail.

        The sad fact is that most people are not ready for the consequences of draft evasion. They selfishly talk of saving their kids, forgetting the power of the state.

        A black student who was studying in England in 1960 was called by his Albany, Georgia draft board for induction. They refused to let him finish his studies, so he refused to report. You know when he came back to the United States? 1999. It took nearly 40 years for him to get a Presidential Pardon. No matter how racist the decision to draft him was.

        If you want to stop the draft, stop it, because escape really isn't on the table. Few countries want unemployable 19 year olds as immigrants.

        Oh yeah, CO status? Well, personally, if I was going to serve in an infantry unit, I'd want a rifle. Because that's where CO's serve. As medics. It's up to the draft board if you're granted non-combat CO status, and my bet that will be a hard exemption to get. A couple of years of CO stuff will not help. Nor will claiming to be gay. In the past, they just ignore it, then when they find you having gay sex, kick you out without beneifts. So you can still go to Iraq, serve and then get nothing for it, because you were gay.

        You don't want a draft, you better make the political cost so high, Congress HAS to say no.

        •  lifelong consequences... (none / 1)


          There are also serious lifelong consequences
          for going to war, most obviously, the end of your
          life.

          The key is have system in place, so that enough
          people can feel comfortable avoiding a draft, that those numbers will be overwhelming.

          Are they going to be prepared to incarcerate the hundreds of thousands that might refuse to go.
          I've heard reports that at least 1000 soldiers have already deserted and the number is growing.
          And these are people who volunteered.

          •  Well..... (none / 1)

            Do you want to be one of the hundreds they DO send to jail? They only need a few examples to make their point.

            The odds of serving in a combat unit are relatively small, something like one out of nine soldiers do. I do not think you want to go to federal prison instead, because if you think Iraq is dangerous, prison is worse.

            I think it's more intelligent to prevent the draft than try to dodge it. Because it's too late then.

        •  CO status (none / 0)

          Not all CO's end up as medics on front line. Some CO's went to prison instead.
          I agree immigration is not a good option.

          I think because of the age of the Bush twins there will be some kind of national service program where you can serve in a Peace Corp/Vista program or serve military duty.

          What Would Shirley Chisholm Do?

          by ricardo4 on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:30:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I wouldn't count on that (none / 0)

            There will be a lot of pressure to have an equitable draft, alternative service is less likely because of what happened in Vietnam. So I would think the military would get first call, but the numbers drafted will be relatively small, maybe 150,000 a year.
        •  Since when (none / 0)

          does Congress have to approve something?  I always thought the Constitution said Congress was the only one that could declare war on a foreign nation.  Bush seemed to not have any trouble skirting that little piece of paper that some of us still care deeply about.  

          I can easily see a draft being brought about by an Executive Order, and Congress being left in the dark.  Sure it isn't legal, but what has been in the past 4 years?  I always thought torture was illegal too.  

          "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." -- Galileo Galilei

          by Dittoz on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 09:20:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Our Catastrophe-in-Chief has lied (none / 0)

    to us about the reasons for going into Iraq, so why would anyone doubt that we are being lied to about the draft???

    Thank you - all Americans need to hear this. I am waiting for after the election for Bush to make some kind of announcement on a type of draft.

  •  This is what all young Americans (4.00 / 2)

    and all American parents need to damn well understand:

    Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, and the entire Neo-Con Cartel could not care less about the men and women engaged in the military service of this nation. They are cannon fodder. Period.

  •  Draft by June (4.00 / 2)

    Draft by june.

    The current force structure only has some 12-14 months left without significant recruitment change.

    After that we have to reduce force in Iraq. There are simply not enough people around.

    Big post election battle is on, that will cut some several hundred troops from font line.

    Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

    by fugue on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 06:05:32 AM PDT

    •  I think you are spot on with this (none / 0)

      SSS only needs 90 days to activate.  I'd guess the shits going to hit the fan sometime after the State of the Union address.  The declaration that 120,000 troops will be in Iraq through 2006 has convinced me that there are only two options left for BushCo:
      *Draft
      *Mercenaries
      Our NG and regular forces can stand only so many rotations through, their recruiting is down, and the Iraq problem is yet to be solved.  Too many pressures on the Armed Forces, they must be supplemented with fresh troops our they will cease to function fully.  At that point, Iraq becomes less of a problem and our national security becomes a greater problem.

      Of course, we could always withdraw.  But I don't see the neocons giving up on their investment that easily.

    •  Disagree (none / 0)

      They'll use incentives and contract out jobs that can be done by civilians to civilians and move the already military pencil jocks to the front lines first.

      If we go into Iran in any real way, however, all bets are off.

      The Republicans were right about one thing - The media is irresponsible.

      by nightsweat on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:22:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the numbers are finally coming together (4.00 / 2)

      In December head of Reserve Forces says force is broken. By end of this year all National Guard troops will have gone through their rotation.
      They are planning on keeping troop levels in Iraq at 120,000 through 2006. They will have to extend the National Guard and Reserve tours and pull in any troops that aren't normally rotated.
      This is from MSNBC
      "With the Pentagon having relied heavily on reservists to fill out deployments to Iraq, military officers have warned recently that the pool of available part-time soldiers is dwindling. By later this year, when the Army is scheduled to begin its fourth rotation of troops since the invasion in March 2003, all 15 of the National Guard's most readily deployable brigades will have been mobilized." and

      "To continue to be able to draw on the better trained reservists, Army officials have said they are considering petitioning Rumsfeld to extend the 24-month limit on the total time a reservist could be called to active duty."

      We are swinging in the breeze now. I suspect the draft is on its way and June makes sense. All Bush's domestic agenda crap is diversionary - "I firmly planted the flag of democracy" yada yada was the clue.
      My 17 year old has started his CO file of term papers he has written and people who have heard him voice his aversion to war.

      What Would Shirley Chisholm Do?

      by ricardo4 on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:25:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  One more terrorist attack (4.00 / 3)

    All that is needed is for there to be one more sensational terrorist attack on American soil and people will be falling all over themselves to join the service. There will be no need for a draft. Once again, the best thing that can happen to GWB's flailing presidency is for there to be another 911. Sure, there will be a few who will argue that he's not made Americans safer, but fear and emotion will overtake reason and in the end rabid nationalism will consume the US. It will be seen as dishonorable to get drafted because "real patriots" enlist. Anyone who opposes more war will be silenced (even more violently than they already have been).
    •  my thoughts exactly (4.00 / 2)

      I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop for a long time now.  One more gory terrorist attack on US soil would be Bush's Reichstag - he could make himself dictator-for-life, put anyone who disagrees with him in jail, start interning Arab-Americans in camps, and so forth.

      Americans aren't going to care much about an incident that takes place in another country, or as part of the Iraq war - but if another airliner flies into a building here, or if suicide bombers start attacking shopping malls, we are in big, big trouble.  Not from the terrorists, but from Bush & Co., and from the angry, blinded mob.

      I hope I'm wrong about this and I'm just being needlessly paranoid.

      Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night

      by hrh on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:29:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There has to be (none / 1)

        another attack.  The last time W's popularity was this low we got 9/11.  I just don't see any other way for them to get the troops they need.  It will happen and the nationalism will come back will possibly martial law.
        •  It would also mean that he's failed (none / 0)

          Gee Mr Prescident I thought we winning the war on terrer. I thought the war in Iraq was keeping those mean ole terreriststst away from us?

          "We are fighting that enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan
          today so that we do not meet him again on our own streets"- GWB

          Remember when you said that Mr. Prespident?

          "There is only a one in six billion chance that you actually exist"

          by Blacklantern on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:27:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Agree but, (none / 0)

      I don't think Americans will join in mass, we're too comfortable and lazy. Plus 1/3 of us will call bullshit (not that we'll be heard).  I think those who would have joined, did after 911.

      I bet we'll just approve the draft when we get attacked.  It'll be sold as the only way to build the forces fast enough to invade another country.

      •  How this works (none / 0)

        The 1930 film "All Quiet on the Western Front" is instructive on how this might work. The film really is an example of how nationalism and propaganda can snare young people into doing things against their will. Maybe America's youth will volunteer or maybe parents will be more tolerant of the draft, but if you want to see what America will look like after another terrorist strike rent this film.
  •  my wife is a teacher (4.00 / 2)

    Her students, especially her graduating high school seniors, are terrified of a draft.

    Most of them are not too aware of politics in general, but they can hear and understand the buzz. And they know very well that if there is a draft they are so much red meat to the grinder, and their asses will be first on the chopping block.

    She teaches in a solidly working class area of Ohio. Not poor but not rich by any stretch of the imagination either. A lot of her students are the ones who, in normal times, would be proudly signing up for the National Guard or Reserves so that they can go to college. Spend some time working for your country, and get rewarded with help toward a college education. But they're not fools -- they know that signing up right now is like volunteering for a ticket to Iraq, a war they have no interest in fighting. Maybe a one-way ticket at that.

    Instead, a lot of these kids are close to giving up on college. They are going to be looking for work right out of high school, in this shitty economy no less. And they are scared.

    I don't know what to tell them, because there isn't much to say.

    The world won't get no better if we just let it be.

    by drewthaler on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 06:55:07 AM PDT

  •  RAND (none / 0)

    Isn't RAND coming up with a plan of putting support/deskbound soldiers in the field and replacing them with contractors? It makes sense (in this day and age) to split the difference and make up the lost help with a "skills" draft rather than contracting. Of course, that wouldn't help Bush's corporate buddies. Unless, of course, he contracted Halliburton to manage the new "skills" draftees as conscript-contractors. But that would be akin to slavery. So don't be surprised if it happens that way.
  •  Read the article just last night... (none / 1)

    ...and though Rolling Stone takes a lot of heat these days, you can always count on Jann Wenner and the excellent writers on staff at RS to bring the truth to young America. This is precisely why I am still a subscriber and will remain so for years to come.

    After arguing for God knows how long with right wing friends about an impending draft, I was thrilled to finally see this story get some 'mainstream' coverage.

    Thanks for the diary, Tom.

  •  The Draft is not necessarily a bad idea (none / 1)

    When it is applied in the context of a defensive war.  Of course, if the United States were being attacked by foreign troops massed on our borders (those crafty Canadians!) you wouldn't need the draft because a huge number of men and women would sign up to serve.

    Optional wars of imperial conquest however do not warrant the draft and we should fight it at every turn while our troops are engaged in anything other than attacking Al Qaeda and other terror organizations

    The Republicans were right about one thing - The media is irresponsible.

    by nightsweat on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:20:54 AM PDT

    •  Draft is what is needed (4.00 / 5)

      Don't flame me yet.

      I'm sorry but this war is so fucking wrong and immoral and unjustifiable on any level that I can't stand it anymore.

      A draft is a "reality" check to the middle class.  Want to drive those SUVs?  Want to live comfortably while the rest of the world goes without?  Want to make it possible for corporations to steal, rape, pillage in the 3rd world?   All it costs you is your children.

      And it is not fair, not sustainable and undemocratic that the children who are dying now are those of the underclass and immigrants.

      This war is immoral on the grounds that our army is not a democratic army but a mercenary army built on the inequities of the U.S. captitalist system.

      I personally don't believe that Bush Co. would ever be so stupid as to reinstitute a draft, but if they did... I'm sorry but I am all for it because there is only one way for the fucking right wing, middle class idiots and ignoramus' to face the truth about America as an imperial power, and that is to send their children to die in a stupid, pointless, immoral, cowardly, imperial war.

      As long as it is someone else's children, we will have trouble getting traction about the stupidity, venality, destructiveness of war.  Once we feed the machine with middle class lives, then we will be able to initiate fundamental change.

      Things have to go backward before they can go forward, IMHO, and as sad as I am to read that coming from my own hands.

      Help new teachers to grow and love their work at www.newteachernetwork.net

      by Mi Corazon on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 09:15:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Interesting. but (4.00 / 3)

        something it is easy for all of us (including me) to forget is that these "children" should not have to die for the sins of their parents.  I had enough original sin stuff in Catholic Sunday school.  We need to send adult Republicans.

        Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. H.L. Mencken

        by Seoduwyn on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 09:34:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  these are good points (none / 0)

        about the nature of the army - but now is not the the time to reorganize the army, we needed to do that before this war.

        Now is the time to prevent the war from getting expanded - which is what the draft would allow.

        Now is als the time to use the draft-issue as a vehicle for telling the moral issues of the war - and we can only do that by opposing the draft on principle.

        No American should be forced to fight for an illegal and immoral war - not enlisted, not drafted.

        •  I hear what you are saying (none / 1)

          That a draft will permit or enable the Bush zealots to fight an expanded war in the Middle East.  That may be true, though I have a hard time seeing how European allies or even the American public would go along with it, but maybe they would given the right justification.

          Still, in my mind, a draft would bring home to the American middle class the kind of reality that they really need to understand.  We are the problem:  America's insatiable consuming corporate monolith that seeks world dominion.

          And I am not sure which course would be better and which worse in the long run, draft, no draft with a peace component.

          I do respect your position, Tom, and I have been advocating for peace issues since I had to register with the selective service in 1982.  

          I also agree that this is "our" war.  It belongs to all of us now who live in America.  We can't turn our backs and say it is "their" war.  It's our country, it's our tax dollars, it's our kids.

          I just think the sacrifice shouldn't be limited to the poor, the unentitled and people of color.

          Help new teachers to grow and love their work at www.newteachernetwork.net

          by Mi Corazon on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 12:24:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  we are close, but not totally together (none / 0)

            Still, in my mind, a draft would bring home to the American middle class the kind of reality that they really need to understand.  We are the problem:  America's insatiable consuming corporate monolith that seeks world dominion.

            I understand your position, I just think that now is the wrong time to be advancing it.  We push for a draft during times of peace - not war.  Now the draft cannot be considered outside the context of this specific war.

            Also, for the draft to bring home the reality of wasr we don't have to call for one.  In fact, what we call for won't matter - the Republicans are not going to call a draft because anti-war types asked for it.  So let's make the draft-issue bring the war home (with or without a draft) by talking about the draft.  And, please do know this:  When you and others talk about the principles of the draft as fairer and better for democracy you help bring the war home as well.  Our talking and disagreeing keeps the draft in mind.  I don't think that that is a bad thing.  The only time that I think we make a huge mistake is when we call for the draft so that it will be opposed later.  That doesn't ring as too smart politically.

            Thanks for the feedback.  I think we are actually pretty close here -- and I really do get the point about the poverty and race drafts.

        •  My two cents (none / 0)

          Tom I think this is a great diary and I think you are doing the exact right thing to bring the draft issue to the forefront of the American public's mind.

          However, I have to disagree somewhat with this line:

          "...but now is not the the time to reorganize the army, we needed to do that before this war.

          Now is the time to prevent the war from getting expanded - which is what the draft would allow."

          This would be a valid argument if we truly had an opposition party here in America but unfortunately we don't.  Now you can flame me if you want but as much as I thought Clinton was an awesome President, he did shift this party and the middle quite a bit to the right.  Now this was probably the only way he was able to have quite as strong an influence as he did (along with that charisma of course) but the point is that we don't have any real leaders in the anti-war side of things.  Yes Boxer and Dean and a few others have taken a strong stand here and there and I hate to belittle their efforts but really, where is our MLK standing up with the courage of 1000 men preaching peace as the answer instead of war?  We don't have those strong people for the activists on the left to use as a focal point/mouthpiece (and please don't say Michael Moore because as much as I respect his work, his charisma and leadership skills are sorely lacking).

          Anyway, the point is, if Bush wants to go to war in Iran what do you think is going to stop him?  He has control over the entire government and the media right now.  The only way he would be stopped is by a complete defection of his party which would never happen, or for the other powers of the world to stand up to him and quite honestly, out of self-preservation, that will never happen.

          So, if we could mount a realistic opposition to war, using any frame, be it "no draft/no war" or whatever, then you would be right that this is the wrong time, but we do not have the power to stop this juggernaut at this point in time so we need to think of how to deal with it now.

          I think My Heart is right in saying that we need to put pressure on the middle/upper middle class people who are detached from this war and its sequels.  They see this as some sort of game like Risk or something where the soldiers are just pieces on a game board so of course they will support the President if he says we have to fight those "damn Iranians".  But if you make it their kid, who they have sent to college to carry on the trend of their families "god-given right to upward mobility" who is drafted and stuck in the middle of this shit and sure enough the head will be removed slowly from their ass and they will start joining those of us who are in the reality based community.  When we have that sort of support, we can at least stop any more of these unjust wars from happening.

          One of Bush's biggest failures, which gets nothing more than lip service, is not mobilizing the American populace after 9/11 into the idea of selfless service.  He encouraged business as usual and shop til you drop as the way to defeat terrorists and people believed it because it was easier than what they knew what was the "right" thing to do.  If he had taken that opportunity to say "We need to shift our thinking about defense and service to one's country.  I know it is not the nicest thing but we need to institute a draft today where every American from the age of 18 must spend two years either in the Peace Corps (or something like that) or in service in the military"  If he had done that, many many people would have supported it and we never would have gone to Iraq in the first place.  

          I do believe that at some point in time we need to institute a plan like this.  I know it sounds distasteful now in the time of such an unjust war but you can't expect to be part of a great country without contributing to it in SOME way.  Hell even if 75% of the 18 year olds chose the peace corps, how great would that be to see all of our young people out there helping the third world and understanding how life really is in other countries.

          While I agree that the draft issue will pique some people's interest, they aren't going to get serious about it until it actually happens when they don't have a choice but to deal with it.  So, since we all agree it would be a more fair way to deal with the military and the world in general why not do it now?  Your argument that it would enable Bush to go to Iran or beyond is valid but I fear just a bit late.  That ship has sailed....we are going to Iran and its either get our people involved in the right way so that the decision is made correctly and there is some serious pressure from the people and the media or Bush is going to go anyway "with the army he has" and end up stretching us so thin that no one really wants to imagine the consequences.

          Thanks for bringing the debate to light...

          "One can only understand the world through understanding one's inner self"

          by I Want My American Pride Back on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 04:17:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think we can do this this way (none / 0)

            1. We assert that a draft is coming and MUST come because of how the war is being conducted
            2. We then pre-organize against this incoming draft - to Stop the Draft Before It Starts
            3. We fight the draft and the war at once
            4. If there is no draft, we cliam victory
    •  I agree - now is the wrong (none / 0)

      time for progressives to call for the draft.  But the draft could be a good thing -- but now it would only make Bush's war more deadly and more dangerous.
  •  Special skills? (none / 0)

    After getting her degree in business my daughter wants to go into mortuary services, you know, to learn embalming and how to prepare dead bodies for funerals. Do you think the SS would be interested in her?
  •  Good topic coverage (none / 0)

    I'm creating a post and link to your diary on my blog.
  •  Bravo (none / 0)

    Tom I am amazed at your commitment, energy and resourcefulness. Your contribution is immeasurable and very appreciated.

    -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

    by thingamabob on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:50:35 AM PDT

  •  Has anyone else noticed (4.00 / 2)

    the new advertisements for the military? I saw one on Comedy Central the other night. It was a very glossy "look at all the cool stuff you'll get to do like fire weapons and play war" piece. It reminded me of a beer commercial. What's next, bikini-clad babes hovering around a young hunk wearing combat gear?

    Talk about misuse of tax dollars for propaganda!

    The radio ads for National Guard here in the South are equally disturbing.

    "Nothing more completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity than straightforward and simple integrity."--C.C. Colton

    by rcvanoz on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:54:04 AM PDT

    •  One ad is OK (4.00 / 2)

      I think the ad that appeared on the Daily Show last night was a lot better.

      It should that Army Reservists were missing from their usually jobs/activities at home and included a little text showing where they are now. (Example: Iraq; Afghanistan.)

      To me, an Army Reserve ad that shows reservists do actually get called up is a huge improvement over ones that make it look as if being in the Army Reserve is like signing up for a subscription to Outward Bound events.

      The ad I saw would appeal to young people who actually want to have the adventure of going to serve overseas. On the one hand, the problem is that the ads might funnel more bloodthirsty Grand Theft Auto types into the military. On the other hand, at least people who do volunteer will understand what they're getting into.

      •  I saw a disgusting one the other day though (none / 0)

        ...for the Reserve or Nat. Guard where they DID show the guys just hanging out in America doing normal stuff with buddies and talked only about "only having to put in a couple weekends a month" without a single mention of the fact that reservists and guard are serving MULTIPLE tours in Iraq against their contracts.  I can't imagine anyone signing up right now that wasn't totally desperate but thanks to Bushco there are plenty of those too...

        "One can only understand the world through understanding one's inner self"

        by I Want My American Pride Back on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 04:24:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe regular military will do better (none / 0)

          I think the problem that reserves would have is that reservists go in knowing they'll end up on active duty for long periods. I'm not sure what the differences are in scholarship programs and benefits, but it looks as if people would be better off in the regular military.

          Also: If I were going into the military, I think that I would first want there to be worldwide peace, and second, that if there were hostilities anywhere in the world, I'd be in the middle of them doing something heroic. (Of course, I'd actually be in a corner crying, but that's one reason I never belonged within a mile of the military.)

          If the military were just doing an adequate job of armoring its soldiers and trucks and not having to deal with such gratuitously stupid civilian leadership, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would probably be driving regular military enlistments through the roof.

  •  They need bodies (none / 1)

    I got a letter the other day from the Naval/Marine Corps Reserve asking me to join up. I had not heard from them since I got my certificate of discharge from the IRR in 1999 and I've moved twice since.

    "There is only a one in six billion chance that you actually exist"

    by Blacklantern on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:34:01 AM PDT

  •  It is not coincidence... (4.00 / 2)

    Many young Americans, wanting to get an education to better themselves, see that joining the military as the only avenue available for that education.  Even those without such ambitions are finding that the only work available to the unskilled these days is donning the uniform.

    What America has in place now is a class-driven economic draft, but heaven forbid anyone tell the truth.  I can just hear the cries of, "Why do you demean our brave soldiers like that?"

    Republicans are afflicted by CHIDS-Chronic Humor and Irony Deficit Syndrome, pronounced 'kids' with a parental sigh.

    by stumpy on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 09:04:02 AM PDT

  •  These Rumors Are All Over D.C. (none / 1)

    My boss was over at a federal agency yesterday and 3 different people told him they heard the draft was coming in April and that it would be 22-37 year olds.  
    •  then let's make this issue our (none / 0)

      issue.

      If this is true, we only have a few months to frame the issue in terms that convey our worldview and values.

      The draft issuse is about the right of moral refusal  in the context of an immoral and illegal war.  It is about freedom from the draft, not avoidance of the draft.

  •  Economics: A Love Sonnet (4.00 / 5)

    Dan Kiley, my grandpa, fought for the Brits
    in World War 1, on a transport ship, which
    brought fresh meat to Somme and Ypres.
    In Ireland employment is always a bitch.

    My father was drafted in Fourty-two
    and sent to fight Japs in far off Rangoon.
    The army was better than starving, he knew
    in depressions, any job seemed like a boon.

    Deferments cost money in Sixty-five.
    No college for me, so they 1-A'ed my hide.
    In Nam it was kiling that kept me alive.
    Now when I think of it, I wish I'd died.

    They come for my son, but there's no fucking way,
    they'll waste him like me, his dues have been paid.

  •  You'd better believe it... (none / 1)

    In December, a friend of mine in the local Dem Association told me that she was asked (confidentially) to serve on the Draft Board here in W.KY.  I'm prime cannonfodder.  That's the only reason she let me know.

    I'm really worried.  I'm not exactly sure of my chances of getting called up, as an historian & student with computer skills out the wazoo, but it really worries me.  I've only been married a year, my husband and I want to start a family soon... Maybe I'm just overreacting... Am I?

    "History drips in the dark..." Robert Penn Warren

    by khowell on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 09:48:31 AM PDT

    •  now is the time to Stop the Draft Before (none / 0)

      It Starts.

      We own this issue until Bush decides it is time to push it.  We can frame it as an issue over moral refusal from illegal and immoral war - or we can wait and let him frame it about cowards not wanting to stand up for freedom.

  •  Email this link to teens (none / 0)

    I emailed this diary to my 16 yr-old daughter, who did a paper on the draft last semester, as well as a paper on the secret 1968 US-led genocide events in Chile and Cambodia (so she's becoming aware...and making her old liberal papa proud). I'm asking her to pass the link on to her friends, most of whom are 16-20 yrs. I suggest we send this diary link to any teens and early-20's people we know.

    In the late 60's we 'kids', 16 to 25, were the ones who stood up and marched and made an impact. I remember getting in deep trouble at my high school for organizing and stopping classes during the first moratorium, Oct 15, 1969. Many of the young men and women of 2005 are far more aware of the reality of political events and the result than we were. They have communication tools we didn't dream of. Those that get it will enlighten those who haven't yet connected the dots.

  •  But we NEED the draft (none / 1)

    The draft is precisely what this country needs right now. Pull the carnage off the nightly news, fold it up in an American flag and deliver it to your nearest jingoistic Republican family. "We regret to inform you that you supported this war when it was only other people's children that were dying. Have a nice day."

    Making a bunch of teenagers think that they may have to go fight in Iraq is not nearly as effective as bringing it to the doorstep of those who listen to too much Toby Keith.

    BRING BACK THE DRAFT!

    This will bring the war to a screeching halt.

    that which kills you makes you dead liberal street fight

    by seethru jesus on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 10:20:56 AM PDT

    •  this is the most stupid (none / 0)

      political stance that I can possibly imagine the left taking

      we are opposed to the draft because no American should kill or die for an immoral and illegal war

      why would we call for more deaths and more people killing for a war that we oppose?

      it is too complex and seems too shady for us to call for a draft that we will then oppose

      by opposing the draft we make the draft more real, and bring the war home

      if there is a draft, we can then oppose it more - without need to switch sides in a very opportunistic and stupid way

      •  Well (4.00 / 2)

        I didn't say that the official Democratic stance should be to call for the draft. What I said was that the draft is precisely what we need to end this war. The Right is painting themselves into a corner where they will be forced to reinstate the draft. Middle America will start to pee its pants when it realizes that it isn't mostly poor and minority soldiers being sent over there to die. They want to wave their flags and put yellow ribbons on their SUVs. That is not sacrifice. They have to be prepared to pay an ACTUAL price. Then the big talk will go away, and anti-war, anti-imperialist candidates will suddenly be en vogue for a while. The threat of a draft will not stop us from doing this again in a decade. A draft will.

        THAT is my point.

        that which kills you makes you dead liberal street fight

        by seethru jesus on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 01:50:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Like Vietnam? (none / 0)

      It is true the draft was the factor (I believe) that brought Vietnam home to people who, by reason of affluence, had until then been able to avoid the ugly reality.  Why affluence?  Poor kids go to war for the benefits, better-off kids go to college (for the benefits).  But I was no more willing to sacrifice any kids then, than I am now, to make a point.  We can do better than that.
      •  Can we? (none / 0)

        So far we've been utterly ineffective. So far we've been fucking around and letting the neocons do whatever they like. So far, we've been putting up lame-ass candidates because we're afraid to change... afraid to embrace our core values. We try to be like them, and that makes us deserve to lose.

        that which kills you makes you dead liberal street fight

        by seethru jesus on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 01:53:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  tom - (none / 0)

    tim ryan's draft tirade should be included in your list of references.  for sure.

    "Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise." Thomas Paine, Common Sense

    by Cedwyn on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 10:25:57 AM PDT

  •  Why (none / 1)

    Why can't we take to the streets now?

    I've seen a lot of folks referring to America taking to the streets after the draft, and people talking about the protests of the '60s. I mean, why should we wait for an event, like a RNC or the inauguration to protest? Why can't we start now?

    Maybe I'm just young and a little idealistic yet, but the way I see it, if the masses in the streets could stop the war after the draft, then maybe masses in the streets now would head off the draft at the hypothetical pass. This war IS immoral, so I think we're very vindicated in protesting it now, even before the draft comes around... you know, if there were Irish-style hunger strikers and mass demonstrations around the White House daily, the media really Couldn't ignore it....

    •  taking to the streets (none / 0)

      requires organizational support and that the draft issue become a priority of the anti-war movement

      move the movement is about calling on the anti-war leadership and asking that they start organizing Stop the Draft Before It Starts marches, vigils, protests

      there is no need (or desire) to create another movemnet (anti-draft), what is far better is for the anti-war movement to use anti-draft to carry its message and to stand up against the draft on principle

      •  Hundreds of thousands took to the streets... (none / 0)

        during the run up to the Iraq war and Bush shrugged his shoulders. It's clear to me that protesting in the streets is a waste of time under this presidency.

        Money talks. Wanna make a difference? Work some overtime and send the money to some organization that you think can make a difference.

        The plural of anecdote is not data.

        by bobinson on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 09:06:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Inevitable, I think... (4.00 / 2)

    A draft is all but inevitable.  Bush has already broken the army.  And yet, if Seymour Hersh is to be believed, we can expect to be in another war very soon -- maybe even by the summer.  And Seymour Hersh is very much to be believed.

    So, how do you fight two wars with a broken army?

    Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller...?

    Answer: You need another army.  Or, more accurately, lots more soldiers for your broken army.  Now it's entirely possible that the same logic that holds the solution to a deficit is reducing revenue might find a way to address a shortage of soldiers through some other method than acquiring more soldiers.  More likely, though, they'll probaby get all reality-based on us at the most inconvenient time.

    On a related note, I realize parallels to Nazi Germany are a little tricky, but consider this:  What happened when Hitler decided to open a second front, against the advice of his generals?

    "The Romans brought on their own demise, but it took them centuries. Bush has finished America in a mere 7 years." -- Paul Craig Roberts

    by Roddy McCorley o