On Tone and Profanity (+poll)

OK. I imagine most everyone is tired of talking about Obama's recent post. No? You're not? I simply want to talk about the use of profanity. I'm not saying we should censor ourselves, but I do sometimes wonder if we shoot ourselves in the foot when we resort to choosing words that do nothing but help us vent off some steam.

Profanity and tone go hand in hand, and I think Obama's main point is to watch our tone.

I replied in Maryscott OConnor's OBAMARAMA dairy about how I agree with Obama's statement regarding tone. It wasn't exactly in response to her own use of profanity, it was really a tipping point after seeing over the months recommended diaries on the front page titled "FUCK this" or "FUCK that".

For simply asking if this sort of language is necessary, I was called a 'cocksucker' and a 'fucking centrist'. Wow. I never even stated my views on anything except the use of profanity, but simply because I said I have a disdain for profanity I am assumed to be a centrist. And apparently that is a bad thing. [EDIT: it appears a moderator has removed the post that called me a centrist cocksucker, but left the one that did not call me a centrist. ;-)]

I think a large part of what Obama was trying to say is that our tone is very important when we talk about important issues. If all we can say is that the Republicans are a bunch of motherf---ers, and that Dick Cheney eats babies for dessert, we aren't going to get very far.

One response to this is that the Republicans stoop to that level, so it's all good. We have Dick Cheney telling Leahy to go f--- himself on the Senate floor, so it's fine and dandy for us to use profanity too. So what? When did we start justifying our actions by what level the Republicans have stooped to?

This post is not about censoring yourself. So don't even go there. This post is simply a request to choose your words wisely. If you can't express yourself without profanity, so be it, use profanity when you have to. Just recognize there may be consequences to that - such as turning off people who may have listened to you.

This post is not about compromising your values either. Stand up and fight for your values. Just do it in a classy way.

I don't expect us to cater to the lowest common denominator either. So don't take this as me saying we shouldn't attack the GOP and attack hard.

However, I would like to be able to tell my mother and grandmother to go look at DailyKos. But I know the minute they see profanity splayed across the front page, they will leave. Yes, adults should be able to handle seeing 'bad words'. But many people will simply choose to tune you out when you use them, and that's the way it is. I don't think we should shoot ourselves in the foot if we don't have to.

Anyway, that's my rant. Hopefully I'm not the only one who feels this way. Please don't attack me simply for stating my views, and I won't attack you for stating yours.

•  Blah

  Want to call me a c***sucker too? Feel free, it won't hurt my feelings.

  by jaydfwtx on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:10:04 PM PDT

  •  That's "Mr." faggot to you. n/t

    by melvin on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:15:28 PM PDT

  •  Ah

    who the fuck cares?

    by llih on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:38:32 PM PDT

•  It's difficult to be authentic when blogging.

  And if profanity helps you loosen up, go right ahead, I say.

  by YellowDogBlue on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:12:46 PM PDT

  •  sure, but

    there's clearly a ton of people who just want to demonstrate what "fighting dems" they are by dropping the f-bomb every other word: "Grrr, look at me! these are angry times, so i'm cussing a lot!"
    

    by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:17:11 PM PDT

    •  Fuck yeah dude!!

      That's the spirit.  

      by johnny rotten on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:21:31 PM PDT

      •  as i said,

        f-bombs don't really bother me if used within reason. but when, for example, people think they're demonstrating "urgency" by shouting, "WAKE THE F--- UP YOU F---ING PEOPLE!!!!!!" it gets pretty lame pretty quick.

        by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:35:44 PM PDT

        •  Shift key

          It's the shift key, not the "shit"keys, that  bother me in your  example.  The all caps IS lame.

          by Vico on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 06:10:58 PM PDT

    •  That sums it up pretty well

      For every person who uses copious profanity effectively, there are a dozen others who sound like idiots when they do it.

      by dtj on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 04:27:45 PM PDT

    •  Somehow...

      ...Elliot Spitzer just wouldn't sound the same if he had said, "You think you can intimidate me? Fuck you! Choose your weapon."

      He might have sounded more like a New Yorker, but definitely not the same.

      by wiscmass on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 05:09:09 PM PDT

      •  as i've already explained

        a couple of times...I'm not talking about dropping an occasional (or even frequent) f-bomb. The Spitzer example is exactly the opposite of my point.

        But to use your example, inapplicable or not, if Spitzer had said, "You fucking think you can fucking intimidate me? Fuck you, you fucking fuck. Fucking choose your fucking weapon," it would sound pretty silly.

        That's what happens here. Certain people desperately want to be Maryscott O'Connor, but without all the intelligent commentary. They want to be tough guys, they want to show us how pissed they are. After a while, it's all over-the-top and hysterical. It's like the difference between Richard Pryor's profanity and Andrew Dice Clay's.

        by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 07:13:01 PM PDT

•  It's easier to wear slippers

  Than it is to carpet the whole world.

  by DriftawayNH on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:14:08 PM PDT

•  I just don't have a problem with it....

  I mean there's a difference between being lazy, obviously lacking in vocabulary, or being crude and vulgar and using "fuck" as an accessory.

  MSOC's use of it has never bothered me.  Nor many other good writers who use it.  Myself, I hold back, It's just a silly preference of mine.  I don't say the word in my every day life.  I usually use it when I'm really tired, really fed up, or funnily enough when I'm really happy, in a social way.  So, my writing reflects that.

  by Cathy on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:18:01 PM PDT

•  We can't have it both ways

  I don't think we can have an online community overflowing with profanity and hate speech,

  ... and at the same time expect many of our elected congressional leaders to participate extensively in it.

  I wouldn't call DKos "overflowing with profanity and hate speech" at this time... and yet, on some days it comes close.  And I think we pay a price for that, and the price is unknown, because it is paid via great diaries we'll never see.

  I also think there's a "Junior High" mentality that can run through any online community, especially one such as this where comments are rated.  MaryScott O'Connor has an avid following in here -- if I were to call her out for the astounding disrespect of addressing a US Senator with such crude and ugly terms as "fuck", "shit," "fucking" and so on, would I get attacked by her fans for that?  I believe I would.  So I have held my more civil tongue.  But I believe the site pays a steep price for its MaryScott O'Connors.

  by Torta on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:23:20 PM PDT

  •  Agreed

    Senator Obama is probably thinking, gee, last time I try to reach out to them. Sadly.

    by DrReason on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:50:55 PM PDT

  •  this is nothing more than the....

    Rolling Stones of the political word.  Kerry says "fuck it up" when he goes there.  Oh sure he gets the usual cynicism like the word never comes tumbling out of that patrician mouth of his, except to pander, when the truth is be probably says it often enough, if not as often as "yeah man."

    If the Senator is truly bothered by that, then what can I say.  We should not trade free expression in the hope that we can clean things up enough so that Mr. Obama might come back and share his views or listen to ours.  That's a bad tradeoff.

    by Cathy on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:56:14 PM PDT

  •  The Maryscott oddity

    Imho, MSOC made her place here at dKos largely on the basis of an ability to re-state widely held opinion via fruity language. The single MSOC post that I've seen on the front page was stripped of profanity, leaving something pretty flavorless. A result of that was her lengthy diary on the freedom to cuss -- as if the issue of profanity in public fora hadn't been handled forty years earlier by the beats (not to mention Lenny Bruce).

    The story of MSOC & her particular fan base is a weird one -- so emotional, so messy. The fans will jump you faster than a Bush-lovin'  knuckle-dragger for the slightest perceived disrespect (and not without encouragement, I might say). It's all so terribly personal.

    Me, I generally find Shaw's quote on wrestling pigs very helpful.
    

    by wilderness wench on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:59:27 PM PDT

    •  I don't really like groupie behavior....

      at all.  Not for MSOC, who I like very much, or Cindy Sheehan, who I have no problem with...

      Groupie behavior is unseemly and embarrassing.  It ought to embarrass those who engage in it.

      Defense is one thing, being fair, I'm for that.  I speak up for people who I think are not being treated fairly.  Sometimes I should just shut up, because they speak well enough for themselves, but it's the "teacher/instructor" in me, I always think I can teach people who to disagree properly.  Ain't that a kick?

      by Cathy on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:17:19 PM PDT

      •  uh how, not who, see I'm not....

        a teacher/instructor in real life so don't worry about the students.  Though I did tutor adult illiteracy classes for a couple of years...

        by Cathy on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:19:18 PM PDT

  •  Yup.

    A few months ago I wouldn't have agreed so much with your statement that we're paying a steep price.
    At this time, and especially after the past week...I now completely agree with that statement.
    It's embarrassing.
    I've used the eff bomb myself a few times.
    We all have.  
    But when it's used over and over and over and over again...it gets boring and juvenile.

    This is what it's become:
    A few fucking months ago I wouldn't have agreed so much with your fucking statement that we're paying a steep fucking price.
    At this time, and especially after the past fucking week...I now completely agree with that fucking statement man.
    It's fucking embarrassing.

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    And for the love of god...did we need another "fuck" what Obama has to say diary in the R list.
    That just essentially repeats what every other "fuck" what Obama has to say -
    already stated a hundred times over in the past few days?

    Saturdays are odd days on dk.
    Surreal.

    Christine

    by jpschmid on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 05:21:03 PM PDT

•  I use profanity sparingly...

  ...adds to the effectivness when I do...
  

  by NYBri on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:27:52 PM PDT

•  You know

  I had my response all planned out: fuck you, newbie.

  But, I got this bad habit of checking userids, and, somehow, "newbie" just doesn't seem to be the right word to describe somebody sporting "104". Makes my 20,000 something really look like shit, doesn't it?

  That said, profanity has always been a part of dkos, as long as I've known it. Just think of classic phrases: STFU, SYFPH, WYFP.

  So, allow me to rephrase my response. I humbly disagree with your opinion, though I profoundly respect the position from which you express it.

  by litho on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:28:08 PM PDT

  •  Heh

    I didn't even know my uid was that low. Wow. But calling me a newbie is fine. I mostly lurk around here, and only chime in on topics important to me.

    by jaydfwtx on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:33:17 PM PDT

  •  Where do you find that number?

    by Zackpunk on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:59:06 PM PDT

    •  Run your cursor over any name

      in a comment; check the bottom of your screen. The UID # should be there.

      by wilderness wench on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:02:22 PM PDT

    •  Hover your mouse (cursor)...

      ... over someone's username (in a comment).

      BTW, hi there, UID 5535.

      by Plutonium Page on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:03:02 PM PDT

    •  hold your mouse over

      your name, or anyone's name -- don't click -- just read the lower left corner of screen.  you'll see the person's "uid."

      Yours is 5535!

      by Torta on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:05:11 PM PDT

•  Profanity as a device

  to heighten the impact of one's message can be an effective tool. George Carlin does it all the time.

  Swung like a hammer, simply to beat down a countervailing opinion by disparging the holder of same, it becomes juvenile and counterproductive.

  by PeteyPuck on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:32:42 PM PDT

•  Heartily agree with your message

  Tried to raise the subject months ago and got roundly shot down, have not blogged since.  I come here to catch the news these days, but not to comment.  I sometimes wonder how many other people are 'turned off'.  It's a shame that a language (English) with close to a million words results in such limited vocabulary.  

  by CanadaGoose on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:34:05 PM PDT

•  Here's what it comes down to.

  If you think that you will attract more people to the site with the use of profanity in the particular situation you're in then use it.  If you think that it won't, don't.

  We're not just speaking among ourselves here.  This site is visited all the time by people who are questioning Republicanism.  We don't want to turn them off and turn them away.

  That said, I'm NOT advocating censorship.  I've uesd words that aren't 'polite.'  Just use it judiciously and don't use it demean people, especially other members.

  by DCArchitect on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:34:41 PM PDT

•  Maybe it's just me

  but I find it easier to read profanity than listen to it.  I guess I have gotten so accustom to reading it here that I don't pay much attention to it anymore.  But if I were around someone who used a lot of profanity to express their views it would negatively affect my opinion of that person.  

  by LynChi on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:36:50 PM PDT

•  I appreciate this diary -

  tone is important; choosing the best way to communicate is important.

  Neither of which, IMO, has anything to do with good old fashioned cuss words.

  I tend to use them more in comments than diaries. Diaries are my 'body of work' if you will and I try to express myself at the highest level of diction I can achieve. Once in a while, especially in a rant, choosing a 'bad' word is the best word to use.

  So, no rules about it.

  Part of the problem, frankly is the mainstream media's 'blackout' of Carlins famous list of proscribed words. This leads to a very vanilla public dialog and also leads to easy marginalization  of 'vulgar' people who do not follow the rules.

  I think its best to 'be yourself' and let the chips fall where they will.

  by Michael Alton Gottlieb on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:40:51 PM PDT

•  That guy Kos

  Just dropped the F-Bomb on the front page. He's got a pretty low user ID too, so I'm going to let it slide.

  Anyone at 35,000 or higher had better watch it though.

  by DriftawayNH on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:44:08 PM PDT

  •  Slide

    Of course. My point is not to eliminate profanity, but to ask that people use it wisely.

    I don't have a huge problem with what he just posted. I would have a problem if he had posted this:

    White is fucking black. Black is fucking white. Up is fucking down. Down is fucking up. Fucking Eurasia has always been at war with fucking Oceania.

    See my point?

    by jaydfwtx on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:55:49 PM PDT

•  I think profanity has its place,

  and should be used with discretion as this is a public place.

  But I don't think you can equate moderating the use of profanity with Obama's discussion of "tone".

  I don't think we can afford to moderate our tone with the opposition we face.  This is an opposition who thinks judges should be drawn and quartered, the crime rate will go down if you abort all the black babies, and that its ok foreign policy to assasinate the president of a Venezuala.

  by landrew on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:47:28 PM PDT

•  The words don't bother me.

  It's just lame that liberal use of "fuck", "motherfucker", "bitchslap", etc., somehow passes for substance in an otherwise superficial diary; for some bizarre reason, it's considered Real Writing™, when there are diaries here that consist of actual research and thought, and they are largely overlooked.

  I've written diaries that had plenty of "fuck [this]" stuff in it, but not for a minute did I pretend they were Of Great Import and Significance™.

  That's what gets to me.

  But hey, it's just a blog.  Right?

  MetaJesus be praised!

  by Plutonium Page on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:47:54 PM PDT

  •  agree

    Sometimes its gratuitous and doesn't add anything. Sometimes cuss words add significantly to increase the tone (and sometimes that IS a good thing). And sometimes, like when Maryscott does it, its just hot.
    

    by Kane in CA on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:55:03 PM PDT

  •  The appeal of the rant....

    I agree. Sometimes it's dismaying that so much appeal is wrapped up in hearing your own veiws reaffirmed than learning something new in a differently intelligent piece with research. But I think it's rant more than specifically being lose with the "f" word.

    by Cathy on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:59:38 PM PDT

    •  Rants don't need profanity

      though admittedly, there are times when "dirty words" help.

      Look at Hunter's rant-to-end-all-rants from a couple of days ago. Only a couple of F***s, yet it had far more power than a profanity-laced diatribe.

      Of course, very very few of us can aspire to Hunter's level of writing skill.

      -dms

      by dmsilev on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 04:07:09 PM PDT

•  I'll weigh in on this

  on the side of jaydfwtx. It's not so much a matter of being personally offensive, though there's that, too, but of getting your message across.

  Too much profanity will turn off a lot of folks we need to address, including politicians who come to post here and who are important to our mission of getting our views heard in the public sphere.

  OK, so once in a while a well placed "fuck" or "asshole" can be expressive in a way nothing else can be, and this is a blog, not the Harvard Law Review, but I think the emphasis needs to be on the "once in a while."

  But, we have graduated from being just a "barroom conversation" to a much more important and influential form of discourse. Let's not forget that, lest we find that influence diminished.

  by mjshep on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 02:56:25 PM PDT

  •  Damnit to Hell

    If "Go fuck yourself" is good enough for our Vice President, it is good enough for me.

    by pmob5977 on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 05:13:34 PM PDT

    •  Personally, I refuse

      to lower myself to his standards.

      by moira977 on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 06:05:05 PM PDT

•  Because I grade students'

  writing all the time, I am accustomed to evaluating word choice.  That seems to be acceptable here when poor word choice makes a comment or a diary unclear or ineffective. If the word in question is profanity, however, questioning word choice becomes censorship.  Profanity does not bother me.  Bad writing does.  Sometimes they coincide.

  by illinifan17 on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:06:37 PM PDT

•  I swear I don't care

  I use profanity occasionally for a variety of reasons but, unlike a few other Kossacks, I don't sprinkle it around as commonly as punctuation.   I suppose it's meant to demonstrate trendy leftist anger and angst but like anything else the impact just dulls with over-use.

  Profanity doesn't personally offend me but jeepers --  there are thousands upon thousands of interesting words in the english language.   Why limit yourself to just a few?   And why target them at the people here?

  by AriesMoon on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:22:30 PM PDT

•  Yeah...I don't really give a S$%T!!

  I'm kidding...

  Honestly though I've been swearing like a sailor since I was about 5 years old, so I must admit that it is hard to stop. My parents didn't care if we swore...well, they did, but telling us to stop and then continuing to do it themselves only made us continue.

  In my opinion swearing is sometimes necessary, sometimes it is fun, and sometimes it effectively expresses my very real anger. So, I don't really care at all when people swear...and I certainly do it enough myself.

  I think people are WAY too sensitive about swearing. These are just words....

  by Elise on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:33:21 PM PDT

  •  "just words"

    words are vital.

    for example:  "in the beginning was the Word."

    ciao!

    by sudiepatou on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 08:06:22 AM PDT

•  Profanity

  used as the occasional adjective or exclamation point does not bother me.  However, the name calling, such as you endured for stating an opinion, is always cringeworthy.  There are many more interesting and creative words and arguments to use to express displeasure.

  by moira977 on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 03:42:46 PM PDT

•  Writing WTH

  is easy.  Understanding what is motivating your opponents and addressing that is hard.  And it's hard to come up with the details any alternative to the status quo needs.

  To be known for lots of the easy stuff and little of the hard stuff is at least part of what's at stake.

   

  by Professor T on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 04:11:19 PM PDT

•  Don't have a problem

  with occasional use of profanity...I do it myself.  However, like I've told my kids, it becomes a problem when you can't express yourself without using it.  

  Also good to make the distinction between plain old cussing and out and out vulgarity.  The latter often does little more than diminish the deeper meaning in    the  statement....it distracts more than it accentuates.

  by tjb22 on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 04:18:44 PM PDT

•  I agree

  I think that what you say about profanity also applies to our various insults for Republicans.  I think the "Chimpy" stuff leads some people to take us less seriously too.  This has become a running joke on right-wing blogs, who mock us by exaggerating our tendency to make up names for Bush (e.g. "Chimpy Hitler McHalliburton").  Of course, the mockery of right-wing bloggers should not determine what we say and don't say.  But if you ask the question "would I forward this to a reasonable Republican/independent who I'm trying to persuade?", the answer is yes for stuff that uses "Bush" and no for stuff that uses "Chimpy."

  Just think about how this would work in reverse.  Would you be persuaded by a piece that refers to the "Democraps" or "Ted 'Chappaquiddick' Kennedy," no matter how brilliant the arguments were?  The people who write these things aren't usually trying to persuade Democrats, just as the people who use "Chimpy," "Repukes," etc., aren't trying to persuade Republicans.  But it's important to recognize when something you wrote has wider persuasive value, and could gain a more receptive audience with the omission of a few insults.  It's up to you whether you want to gain that wider audience at the cost of abandoning your insults.  The same principle applies to profanity too--use it if you want, but recognize that the words you use will shape your audience and its reactions.

  by dtj on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 04:21:45 PM PDT

•  i agree with this

  of course i'm a MOM and an educator.  

  but an artist too and been around PLENTY of profanity in art school and in studios.

  at my age, i've come to think it looks childish to resort to cursing all the time.

  it's laziness not to look for good words and just resorting to writing 'fuck!' is dumb.  sorry, it is.

  there's a macho tone here on kos which even females get into.

  i did that too WHEN I WAS YOUR AGE and it is liberating in a way; to be one of the guys is fun.  "i can out cuss and drink and screw and whatever!  Fuck Yeah!"

  but face it, that's not where the work gets done.

  by sudiepatou on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 04:26:02 PM PDT

•  "Cussing" is an art.

  And when it's over-used or done simply for its own sake or in attempt to be cool, it loses its value and only makes you look stupid.

  One thing's for absolute certain: Profanity-laced polemics do nothing whatsoever to help our cause. So calm the fuck down.

  by Omar on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 04:39:01 PM PDT

•  Profanity used sparingly

  has an effect.

  And -- God Damn It! -- this country is going in the wrong direction! Most Americans agree with that, even if they think (mistakenly) that it's just high gas prices.

  America is full of profanity. On our list of flaws, that probably ranks about one millionth.

  by tiggers thotful spot on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 04:49:34 PM PDT

•  Profanity is like Tabasco Sauce

  It is not appropriate for all recipes.  It just does not go well with some dishes and I like a variety of foods.

  Not everyone likes it.  When I am cooking for a more varied audience, I put little if any in the recipe, preferring to have it available on the side for those who like it.

  I don't use it around my children.  My daughter does not tolerate spicy food well.

  I don't like dishes in which overuse of tabasco sauce is used to cover up for a basically flawed recipe.

  However, there are some dishes that are made complete with just the right amount of tabasco sauce.
  

  by Rusty Pipes on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 05:03:13 PM PDT

•  raging against the dying of the light

  i pretty much think that we need more fucking profanity in this world. i'm sick of being polite just because some motherfucker out there thinks that a particular word is bad. lemme tell you something: words are not inherently good or bad. they are symbols. that's all. tell me why the word hit is a bad word. its not. it doesn't get bleeped on tv. but add an s to it & suddenly its evil. what the fuck?
  
  as far as tone, well, lemme tell you something about that. i'm pissed. i'm more than pissed. i'm fucking angry. i was calm when they impeached clinton for a blowjob. i was calm when they invaded iraq. fast forward 3 more years & i'm thinking that the calmness thing isn't working. i'm thinking that we need to put the fear of motherfucking god into the right wing & i'm thinking at this point that yelling & screaming are more likely to do that then the remaining calm while they run ramshod over our spineless elected officials.
  
  & i don't see all that heralded camraderie coming from the republicans & their right wing noise machine. sure they talk about it but as with everything else, they don't really walk the walk. did you hear when limbaugh called chelsea clinton a dog? that was 9 years ago when she was still a kid. how nice is that? how would you feel if some radio personality called your little girl a dog on the air? or how about our own fucking vice president & his little outburst on the floor of the senate?
  
  one other very practical thing about the yelling & screaming & the cussing, i mean apart from pissing (i'll go further & say scaring) the right wing off: it makes me feel better. & unlike cigarettes, it doesn't cause cancer. unlike alcohol, it doesn't fuck with your liver. & i don't have to run to the store & buy a condom or whatever. so i'm not really seeing any negatives here.
  
  hell, ya' know what, i'm [almost] inspired to post a what you yelling about today thread just for the goddamned fuck of it. s.

  by synth on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 05:04:56 PM PDT

•  I'm calling you out

  This is really the "What's Your Fucking Problem?" diary in disguise, isn't it?

  Allright!  Let's get on it and all give each other a mess of fours!

  My FP?  Sex poetry.  Well, that's not my real FP.  That would be that the best lover in the universe is hundreds of miles away right now.  Carpal tunnel is setting in.

  PS: Recommended

  by Eddie Haskell on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 06:15:36 PM PDT

•  "Fuck" isn't profanity.

  It is a vulgarism, and to some people an obscenity.  Profanity has to do with the not holy.  Therefore, "Goddamn" is profane; "Holy shit" is, I suppose, a combination of profanity and vulgarism.  "Jesus H. Christ" is a profanity, because it makes fun of that which is holy.

  I think there's a useful distinction between vulgarism, which usually harkens back to the Anglo-Saxon roots of our language, and which I approve of when used effectivey to get the conversation down to brass tacks, and profanity or outright blasphemy, which offends not just peoples'  cultivated sensibilities, but their religious  orientation.

  Here's a suggestion for a post you think Mom would like but for the vulgarisms:  Copy into a word processor document, edit as you see fit, noting redactions, and send it as an attachment to an email.  Steal what you want.

  by Vico on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 06:28:18 PM PDT

  •  thanks for the distinction

    i needed that.

    by sudiepatou on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 08:04:06 AM PDT

•  anyone have a

  link to the Obama diary.. My internet has been down.

  by deano on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 08:43:37 PM PDT

  •  Here ya go

    It was frontpaged the other day...
    Obama's diary

    by jaydfwtx on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 09:15:03 PM PDT

    •  Thanks <nt>

      by deano on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 05:45:53 AM PDT