Daily Kos

Night of the Living Dead: Blood Warriors

Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 08:50:58 PM PDT

It is Midnight on the US East Coast: The Witching Hour. The West slides past twilight and our members in Europe settle into bed under cover of the eerie new moon darkness in early morn ... Gather thee round Kossacks, dim the lights, and hear a true Dark Tale from the DarkSyde of zombies and bloodwarriors. Wanna hear something really scary?

There is a ghastly war raging. The legions number in the billions, each recruit is an automated serial killing robot, every one of them set permanently on search and destroy. The meanest of these combatants, a miniature cross between a mobile WMD factory and an agile version of The Blob, charges headlong into battle at the first sign of invasion, launching nanoprobes followed by living machines; pseudopodia greedily foraging for the first taste of their target. Friendly forces surround and eat the enemy's twitching remains. There is no quarter given, no mercy shown. The soldiers on every side are utterly dedicated, single-minded; failure means death: They're fighting for the very right to exist. And if our troops do lose, it's Night of the Living Dead for you and I.

              Ring around the Rosy ...

Way back in the 'good ole days' of 1347, those carefree times of wanton slaughter, religious torture, and massive infant mortality, another abomination arose far more gruesome than any mere manmade method of killing. It was a horribly lingering and disfiguring human blight boasting a fatality rate in the neighborhood of fifty to seventy percent. And it came out of nowhere. This was an invisible war carried out in the ocean of blood, ensconced within the very arteries and veins. And the epidemic du jour was a three-for-one-sale; A pathological trifecta. Lymph nodes in the armpits and groin would swell so quickly the overlaying skin would often split wide open, oozing blood and pus, and giving rise to secondary blood borne infections. If that didn't do the job, the pestilence might move to the air ways and take the patient down with a pneumonia like condition where they'd slowly suffocate on their own blood and phlegm. And the disease would often attack the blood itself with a casualty rate of about ... 100%.

Through it all the infected would cough up crimson laced fluid, swell and turn black and blue from head to toe as rotting blood flowed like cheap red wine from burst organs and vessels into the muscle and skin. The putrid blood would settle to the extremities, hands, feet, lips and nose, where the tissue would necrotize and slough off. If a team of demented bioweapons researchers led by Stephen King possessed by the spirit of Edgar Allan Poe and advised by Tom LaHaye had set out to conjure up a more terrifying apocalyptic vision, they would have been hard pressed to spin a more macabre fiction, than this sickening historical reality: The Black Death.

            Image Hosted by ImageShack.us Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
A mild buboe on the neck and a hand infused with necrotic tissue due to the Black Death. These patients are in a sense, lucky: They live in a modern world where antibiotics can treat the infection and medical science can address the complications

               Pocket full of posies ...

Naturally the citizenry had no idea wtf was happening ... other than the usual assumption that maybe God was really mad. Muslims were certain this had something to do with infidels in the Holy Land as surely as Christians were convinced YVHW was smiting heathen unbelievers. Everyone cooked up convoluted apologetics for why their deity's aim was so broad and so poor: The contagion struck down the young and old, children and adults, the healthy and the ailing. All with impunity despite pleas and prayers and magic spells galore. Really, the only effective treatment was not to get it in the first place, but they had to try something. Non existent medical care and no medical science at all led to some strange treatments indeed for the Black Death outside of the usual hocus-pocus. It didn't escape notice that the plague seemed to strike the more squalid, large cities, quicker and with greater virulence than smaller population centers or the rural areas. Maybe it had something to do with cleanliness or bad air? It turns out that wasn't terribly far off the mark

               Ashes ... Ashes ..

So the wealthy got the hell out of dodge. Vacations to the country estate became the rage to put it mildly, from China to England. And for the well heeled who did come down with it, desperate family members would pay large sums of money for their loved ones to be ventilated with perfumed air to drive the filth out. The ambulatory victims were sometimes taken to stands of flowers, like roses, and marched in rings around the blossoms and instructed to inhale deeply. For the bed ridden, their pockets were stuffed with fresh flower petals to help cover the stench of the dead and dying, and they were forced to eat, drink, and snort fresh ashes in the hope that this would 'cleanse' them. It didn't work of course, and sooner or later they'd all fall down.

Pretty wicked origin for an innocent childhood nursery rhyme, if true. There is debate over the origin.

The most likely culprit for the Black Death was several enemy divisions working together in the theatre of blood. The progenitor of the Bubonic Plague: A bacteria called Yersinia pestis carried by infected fleas clinging to rats formed up the first wave. But there were other actors that followed closely behind in this chilling drama. Yersinia would engage the immune system, puffing up the lymph nodes with buboes, weakening the entire defense. Then anthrax, smallpox, typhus, tuberculosis, and maybe even ebola, flooded in opportunistically, free to evolve into more virulent strains. Half a dozen such microbes operating in synergistic concert best explain the geographical patterns and symptoms of the Black Death pandemic. But in 1347 the first crude microscope is hundreds of years in the future, the disease theory even more remote, the first antibiotics won't be formulated for more than half a millennia: Those early doctors didn't stand a chance of creating an effective treatment.

            Image hosted by Photobucket.com
This is no Club kid. This is the reality of Acral Necrosis in the lips, nose, hands and fingers, of a victim recovering from Bubonic Plague. As bad as it looks in the photo, the patient's entire body surface was affected prior to a regimen of IV antibiotics

Between a quarter and half the population was wiped out in just a couple of years with large European cities especially hard hit. This had profound effects on the structure of feudal society which echoes into our own era. Some argue that the middle class rose as a direct result of common labor suddenly commanding a premium in the aftermath. Cultural icons reach well into our high-tech antiseptic world today: "Ring around the rosy", the robed spectre of the Grim Reaper, the Goth subculture with pasty faces and painted on bruises, and Monty Python's "Bring out your Dead", being just a few notable examples.

But this tale is not the modern costumed version of a fake fright night; children adorned with made up faces highlighted in dark eye shadow with blackened glossy fingernails. Oh no, that is all just a game my friends. This spectacle I'm reviewing was all too genuine.

This was a real Horror Show premiering in 1347 AD written by Mother Nature gone mad and coming soon to a town near you. At the crescendo of the Black Death, entire communites were abandoned to the sick and dying; some burned to the ground intentionally or by accident. Leaving animated quasi-zombies oozing dark blood through cracked, blistered skin, stumbling hopelessly through the ruins and streets in mobs dying en masse with chunks of dead meat dropping off their disfigured bodies, flies buzzing around them, maggots already crawling through the flesh of the barely living. At times, useless eyes bulged or dangled from bleeding sockets escorted by clouds of gnats.

The healthy fled in panic before them, lest they too be infected. Among the throngs of terrified refugees running for their lives away from the rotten city centers are many in the early throes of infection carrying their deadly cargo to the farthest reaches of the Realm. No: This is not a costume ball marking the Fall Festival in which the attendees will be back to normal by the morrow: This was the Night of the Living Dead come jumping off the silver screen in full stereo surround sound accompanied by the stench of decaying bodies playing every night, everyday, all year long, offered to the public at no charge ... The infected instinctively reaching out for the comfort of human contact; they only want to touch you, embrace you, hold you tight in their hour of need: BOOH!.

As far as survival at the time itself, if you contracted the plague your only chance was your own, homegrown immune system. Strangely some folks seemed to sail right through it with relatively minor symptoms. Even stranger, some folks never developed any symptoms at all despite being right in the middle of the greatest outbreaks. This immunity and resistance paid no heed to title or deeds. But it did seem to follow hereditary lines.

            Image hosted by Photobucket.com
    A white blood cell gobbling up rod like bacteria

Enter the blood warriors, one of our most effective armored divisions in the blood wars: The Leukocytes, white blood cells. Trigger happy killers they may be one and all, but these mercenaries work for us. They strike first and never ask questions later. So naturally their enemies have learned over the eons how to camouflage themselves and slip by the liquidating sentries unnoticed until they're ready to act. The killer cells in turn have to be ever more discriminating, yet ever more vicious. If the killer cells are too few or too late recognizing an attack, they lose and you die. If they're too overzealous and start firing at anything that moves, they'll eat you alive from the inside out, and you die. It's quite a precarious balancing act.

If, for whatever reason, these nanokillers get healthy tissue in their cross hairs, there is no talking them out of it, short of drugging them into complacency. They will tear into that tissue with the same gusto they use on the most deadly bacteria. The affected area activates adult stem cell populations in an attempt to keep healing ahead of the carnage. Swelling develops, scars form on scars, function is lost, all of which fools even more over zealous killer cells into attacking. The region grows in size usually becoming a source of chronic pain, eventual infection, and sometime death. Arthritis, Irritable bowel syndrome, type 1 diabetes, multiple sclerosis, lupus, and many others, are all examples of such autoimmune conditions.

It's bad enough when killer cells malfunction and go on a rampage though healthy tissue. But when the bone marrow develops a malignancy, a cancer, the white blood cells produced are like a giant, mutant, retarded form of an already implacable enforcer. Such conditions arise from all kinds of leukemia. Carl Sagan succumbed to complications from myelodysplasia, a similar condition.

OTOH, if these killer cells become diminished in either effectiveness or quantity, any number of hundreds of common microbes we carry around all the time can take us out. Infestation from staph, influenza, or other bugs left untreated can be fatal in a matter of days. Occasionally children are borne with a compromised immune system. And transplant patients take drugs designed specifically to weaken their immuno-response so as to mitigate rejection. Recent research suggests that a healthy immune system forms in part during childhood when youngsters are exposed to everyday dirt and grime.

Early in 1981, emergency rooms in New York City and San Francisco California began seeing an unusual spike in several rare diseases commonly associated with a weakened immune system. Young men, mostly gay or IV drug users, were developing rare forms of skin cancer and suffering from a puzzling pulmonary condition resembling pneumonia. Most of the lung infections turned out to stem from a common fungus which most folks can handle without even knowing it's present: Pneumocyctsis jiroveci. Despite aggressive antibiotics the infection never went completely away. Left untreated the condition progressed rapidly.

The hodgepodge of symptoms was eventually called "Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome" or AIDS. The actual agent is a virus called Human Immuno-virus or HIV. HIV appeared at first to be 100% fatal. Once contracted, sooner or later it will kill you with complications from opportunistic diseases. Once again religious opportunists moved in, much like their microbial counterparts, to take credit on behalf of their respective deities for the contagion. But this time there were microscopes, and labs, and men and women wearing white coats whose eyes and ears were greatly magnified by the tools of science.

Over the last twenty-years knowledge of AIDS has advanced considerably. The infection vector is now known to be fluid to blood contact. HIV reduces the number of one of the most important types of leukocytes called T-killer Cells. When the T-count declines drastically, otherwise fairly innocuous pathogens overwhelm the patient leading to eventual collapse of the immune system and deadly opportunistic infections such as the lung fungi. But there was something strange going on with some patients. They tested positive for the virus, but they never seemed to developed the symptoms and/or the disease progressed very slowly. Once again the resistance paid no attention to quality of treatment or method of infection: But as the cases accumulated some researchers began to suspect it ran in families.

The HIV pathogen is a clever bastard, especially considering it's amazingly simple even for a virus. The agent is part thief and part camo artist; it has to be to fool your cellular security. To get into the immune cells, it picks a lock on the surface called a Chemokine Receptor 5, or CCR-5. HIV cons the CCR-5 portal and slips past the molecular doorman. But a small number of people don't have that door, and thus there is no lock to pick, no doorman to trick! Normally this would be considered a defect. But in the presence of certain types of infectious disease, it became an advantage.


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HIV entering an immune cell by tricking the CCR-5 receptor. The virus causes the door to open and then injects the packet of genetic material which goes on to take over the cell's replicative machinery

A defect, AKA a mutation, that prevents the formation of that receptor confers resistance to HIV. If you have this feature in only one copy of your chromosomes you have heightened resistance because you have fewer receptors. Two copies and you're (virtually) immune to HIV. Thing is, lacking a CCR-5 receptor could conceivably cause the individual so affected problems unrelated to AIDS. And yet the mutation is present in fairly high frequencies among some hereditary groups. If you're a northern European, there's a roughly thirteen percent chance you have at least one copy and about a two percent chance you have both. If you're a full blooded Swede, Brit, or German, if you can reliably trace that ancestry back for a dozen generations, the odds are significantly higher still.

Geneticists began looking into this mutation, tracking it's spread through extant populations, establishing points of origin and time frames. Surprise, surprise, it turned out to stem from northwestern Europe about 700 years ago! Right around the time that bubonic plague, small pox, tuberculosis, and anthrax were ganging up on folks and killing them by the hundreds of millions! Those who survived the onslaught were either lucky, or resistant. This rare, mildly disadvantageous trait was suddenly selected for aggressively. And for century after century, that same trait conferred resistance to other diseases, which may have aided those groups in everything from warfare to foreign conquest to business: If your competition is struck with an epidemic (One perhaps you yourself carry to them) that you are highly resistant to, you have a much better chance of winning the war be it economic or traditional.

A textbook example of evolution, "A change in the frequency of alleles within a population over time". It also turns out this Chemokine process is intimately bound up in other pathologies. And studies of the immune system centering on the role of T-cells has provided insight into everything from cancer to autoimmune disease we might otherwise never have had. The future applications could plausibly be monumental. Serendipity, the hallmark of science.

HIV cannot be cured for now, not yet. But for many it's no longer an immediate death sentence. Aggressive new drugs and lifestyle changes can greatly lengthen the life of an AIDS patient. In some cases the disease has even been stopped in its tracks. But the virus remains a fatal disease for most sooner or later, and the incidence of infection is climbing rapidly. It is estimated that 14,000 people are infected everyday with the greatest increase in Africa. Casualties of the blood wars.

The AIDS virus quietly slips from body fluid to new blood, subtly skulks around the cardiovascular and lymph system until it can cozy up to an immune cell. There it begins the deadly game, it latches onto the CCR-5 receptor and starts picking the lock. Once inside, it may act right away or it may remain dormant for a while. HIV is patient, it can take years to get in and activate. But eventually it activates and disables the normal function of the cell while subverting the replicative machinery to one goal only: Making more HIV viri.

The growth is exponential, inevitable, and ultimately unstoppable. Soon the quickening army takes out immune cells faster than they can be made, the critical T-cell count drops, more deadly viral and bacterial agents start slipping into the breach provided, and the war rages on and on, to the bitter end.

This is just one small campaign in the blood wars, the tiny conflicts fought by your loyal troops who ask no consideration, demand no recognition, lack even the most basic semblance of mind. These organisms are so ruthlessly efficient, you don't even have to think about it, or so much as understand it. Our powerful intellects are given the luxury of assigning credit, or blame, to non-existent fairy tale beings. Supernatural puppets controlled by perplexing menageries of allegedly inerrant designers or equally evil demonic overlords; When all the while it was the most unassuming of organisms. The heroes of H. G. Wells, our own domesticated microbes, that take the fight to the enemy every night, every day, every year. All a part of exquisitely adapted sets of interlocking mechanisms operating below our visual radar, stretching back in an unbroken chain for four billions years, ultimately connecting us to the earth, the sun, and the universe. These soldiers give their lives without hesitation to save yours, over and over, thousands of times if not millions of times a day.

It's not a perfect army. Our troops can be fooled, they can be weakened, they can be beaten, they can commit fratricide. But without them we wouldn't last a day. And over time, they learn how to beat even the most insidious of enemies. Now, steeled by an epic blood feud fought by their forefathers inside our grandparents, a fortunate few may lead the way to curing so many of so much more. Thanks in great part to a long ago bloodwar fought 700 years in the past at the close of the Dark Ages, science may take the fight further than ever dreamed of during that terrible tragedy.  

We'd better. For this grim tale has a sequel coming soon to a town near you: Asian flu? Avian influenza? Super TB? A biological horror designed by bioweapons experts and unleashed by shortsighted control freaks? Or a new concoction cooked up in the boiling organic kettles by Mother Nature? A deadly cocktail of all the above? Mankind is more ripe for a pandemic than we have ever been in all our long, bloody history. Billions are packed like sardines in third-world urban squalor the world over, their immune systems already weakened by starvation, dysentery, and HIV. Fertile fields for new bugs.

Oh yes, it will happen again. And just as before religious opportunists of all stripes will emerge and deftly play on the horror to pitch their deity. And, just as before it will have no effect whatsoever other than to whip the believers into a state of irrational hysteria while filling the coffers of fake healers with blood money. The only question is what will lead the charge, when will it strike, and have we garnered enough hard fought scientific knowledge to combat it? I suspect we'll soon know the answer to all those questions, for the hour of reckoning is drawing near.

Until that dark day, sweet dreams and happy mares my friends from DarkSyde Manor: Good night, sleep tight, don't let the microscopic bed bugs bite.

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Permalink | 97 comments

  •  Well, (none / 1)

    that's a hell of a goodnight story!

    I do not know what weapons World War III will be fought with. World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -- Albert Einstein

    by elveta on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 08:59:20 PM PDT

    •  Thank (4.00 / 70)

      you thank you, one and all. I'm evil and I muct be stopped! I also spent some time on this so hopefully a few people will read it.

      Read UTI, your free thought forum

      by DarkSyde on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 09:14:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not Evil (none / 1)

        Fascinating!

        I want More! How about a diary about Interluken. (I think that is the spelling)

        You make things so easy to understand!

        Just like Carl Sagen.

        More, please!

      •  Scary (none / 0)

        but unfortunately quite realistic.

        And with the GOP in power - God help us. (remember Katrina -- you are doing a hell of a job, Brownie) -

        "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

        by sara seattle on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:25:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks! (none / 0)

        This was a great read -- well written and extremely informative.  I'm going to pass this on.

        JUST SAY NO TO HILLIEBERMAN!!! "The truth is there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?" ---"V"---

        by asskicking annie on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 11:06:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You SOB... (none / 1)

        Very well written article. I think that this is the first time I've ever had a written word piece make me jump, even just a bit. You're descriptions of the "living dead" in medieval times is truly terrifying because because you make it more plausible with the descriptions and pictures of how bubonic plague works. So much the worse that the zombies are not mindless, but human beings in pain, in need of comfort, and contagious as Hell. So much the more deadly. Just ask the locals at the next ebola outbreak. IIRC, they were having problems with a tradition of kissing the deceased loved one's corpse spreading the virus to the living.

        I'm using the comment I'm replying to as a tip jar, and I'm definitely passing this article on.

        BlackGriffen

      •  have a 4 x 3 (none / 0)

        O world,no world,but mass of public wrongs,confused and filled with murder and misdeeds

        by Brian B on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 01:29:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Antibiotics-- my question is, (none / 0)

        I'm already sick often, and get sinus and ear infections requiring antibiotics about 6 times a year.  I only take the a.b.s when it's a bacterial infection; I'm actually sick more often than that (every four to sick weeks) but lots of times its just nasty viruses, and I ride them out.

        So obviously I have a not great immune system and I also have way too much exposure to antibiotics.  I really worry about this.  Will I be able to respond well to treatment if I get avian flu or bubonic plague, given my high level of antibiotic use?

        One more question-- what is the name of the anti-avian flu shot stuff that one can get?  I read it in a dKos diary here a few weeks ago (msybe it was one of your diaries, DS) but have forgotten the name...

        Thank you for this fantastic diary.

      •  giant pile of meat... (none / 0)

        In the "Hot Zone", a true story about the emerging Ebola-type viruses, the author calls humanity, all 6 billion of us, (paraphrasing here) the largest pile of meat on Earth, and enterprising bacteriae and viruses are scheming overtime on eating it.  Nature abhors waste, and all that meat is just sitting there, waiting...

        don't always believe what you think...

        by claude on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 06:02:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  My son is studying (none / 0)

        the Medieval era in homeschool.  I co-authored a curriculum for a series of history books and the plague was one of my chapters.  Interesting but very gross so it's right up my kid's alley.
      •  Being an ex-immunologist and current virologist... (none / 0)

        This is a superb entry in making the single most complicated biological field understandable to most anyone.  It's better then anything I ever wrote on the topic by a longshot.

        Great work, DarkSyde.

      •  Plague + Mice = ??? (none / 0)

        Three mice infected with the bacteria responsible for bubonic plague apparently disappeared from a New Jersey laboratory a month ago.
        Google search

        At first I thought of this as an escape, but the word "disappeared" takes on sinister connotations...

        1/20/2009 will mark the end of an error.

        by winstnsmth on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 10:01:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Man, that was awesome! (none / 0)

    Very well written.  It brought shivers down my spine.  Remember to re-post this story on Halloween!
  •  DarkSyde is a vile and malicious person. (none / 0)

    I'd be just as happy had I not seen this just before I went to bed.  I've already started itching.

    Great work as usual, DarkSyde, albeit a bit graphic for a dark and stormless night.  I had wondered about some of the survivors of the black plague.

    May all your plagues be minor ones.

    They all said, Sit down. Sit down, you're Baracking the Vote. There have to be some guys and dolls around who recognize the song. me

    by maybeeso in michigan on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 09:10:17 PM PDT

  •  As usual, DarkSyde, (none / 1)

    hell of a narration.  Kept me glued to my laptop for the entirety.

    Thank you and recommended!

    Want a progressive future? Raise progressive children. Be a nurturant parent.

    by chinook on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 09:20:13 PM PDT

  •  Absolutely fantastic! (none / 0)

    You done good, kid.

    Better than Creature Double Feature.

    Is there a blood test to find out if one has one or two missing (receptors?) type thingies? Might be fun to find out. I'm British heritage.

  •  Nicely done. (none / 0)

    Thanks.

    Never, never brave me, nor my fury tempt:
      Downy wings, but wroth they beat;
    Tempest even in reason's seat.

    by GreyHawk on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 09:23:04 PM PDT

  •  Thanks! (none / 0)

    I may not sleep so contentedly now.  But I must admit as a biologist that was tasty.  In sort of a Hannibal Lector way.  I've been a fan of Laurie Garrett "The Coming Plague" for quite a while, and fascinated by Preston's "The Hot Zone" the latter primarily because I knew the pathologist who necropsied some of the monkeys that died in the Virgina laboratory affected.

    The biggest keys to our current vulnerability are the extreme mobility of such a large percentage of the world's population, plus being in a war,  plus our mostly now for profit health care system highly likely to be overwhelmed in the event of any kind of respiratory pandemic, whether SARS or avian flu.

    Democrats give you the Bill of Rights; Republicans sell you a bill of goods!

    by barbwires on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 09:34:10 PM PDT

  •  "a state of irrational hysteria" (4.00 / 5)

    Probably not much more whipping needed.

    Antibiotic feats don't fail us now.
    I really wish we weren't shooting our antibiotic wad on keeping factory-farm animals healthy.

    -- We are just regular people informed on issues

    by mike101 on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 09:44:32 PM PDT

  •  Is this an argument for... (4.00 / 2)

    ...Evil Design as opposed to Intelligent Design? I mean, how can we tell which of those little buggers were made by the devil? ;)

    For some odd reason, I kept thinking of that old movie where the people are shrunk down and go inside that guys body in the "sub," I can't remember the name of it now (Incredible Journey?). I always loved that movie as a kid. Just think how cool it would be with what we understand about the body now and with our great effects. I keep thinking there was also a crappy remake made recently, but I can't recall that either. Didn't they escape by washing "ashore" through the tear duct? Imagine the same movie remade, only this time, there is also a killer virus/infection loose inside the patient stalking the crew as well. Of course, that was the H.G. Wells reference, right?

    It just goes to show how freaking amazing the human body is, and say that not for intelligent design, but for just how freaking amazing nature is.

    The sleep of reason produces monsters.

    by Alumbrados on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 09:49:25 PM PDT

    •  Fantastic Voyage (none / 0)

      It was very hip when I first saw it in the sixites. It would look very campy today.

      Damn I'm gettin' old!

    •  Asimov novel and TV series too (none / 0)

      Oddly, Asimov's novel is based on the 20th Century Fox film screenplay. Bantam Books acquired the paperback rights and wooed Asimov into writing it.

      Fantastic Voyage, Isaac Asimov, 1966

      After years of stalemate, a scientific breakthrough of Promethean proportions threatens to shatter the Cold War, spelling certain victory for the side that possesses it. Secretly, the governments of both sides have developed miniaturization, a technology that allows large objects to be made small by shrinking their very atoms. Unfortunately, it's severely limited: things miniaturized soon revert to their original size. But a professor named Benes has made a breakthrough that will strip away these limitations, and military leaders on both sides are quick to see the crucial role that unfettered miniaturization could play in deciding the war. So when the unnamed Other Side fails to hold on to Benes, they attempt to kill him before he can turn the tide for Our Side--and nearly succeed.

      Now Benes himself has become the backdrop for a human drama as five people submit to the most extreme miniaturization ever in order to enter Benes' body and destroy a life-threatening blood clot deep in his brain.

      I swear there was a mid 1970's After School Special that had kids miniaturized in someone's body, without the global-political plot though. Very clearly remember watching it on a grandparental visit.

      Check out this fascinating Nanomedicine Art Gallery, including Fantastic Voyage art.

      Republicans can't run a country. All they can run is a smear campaign. ~ GMT

      Vice harms the doer ~ Socrates

      by kdub on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 07:06:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I must say... (none / 0)

    I liked your evolution diaries much better. Even reading the word "blood" (ew...I hate to type it) sends shivers down my spine...I just don't like it. And diseases gross me out as well...

    a good read, of course, but now I feel like I'm sick.

    I should note that I'm a bit of a hypochondriac (sp?). I see those commercials for meds and they list the symptoms...and before I know it I'm at the doctor asking for arthritis medicine at the age of 27...now every time my lymph nodes swell up I'm going to instinctively think "great...now I've got the plague".

    I realize this isn't rational, of course, but sometimes I can't help it.

  •  Between this (none / 0)

    and the avian flu I read up on tonight I'm feeling a tad off! Beatifully written, as usual. Thank you
  •  Holy Crap! (none / 0)

    That was awesome DarkSyde, I'm sending the link to your diary to some friends right after I post this.

    Like some others have said upthread, I might have trouble sleeping tonight.

    Thanks, and good? night.

  •  Hey (none / 0)

    It's too early for Halloween!

    "I just had the basic view of the American public -- it can't be that bad out there." Marine Travis Williams after 11 members of his squad were killed.

    by Steven D on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:09:36 PM PDT

  •  Hey DS (3.80 / 5)

    Can't wait for your Christmas season Marburg/Ebola special.

    What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

    by melvin on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:09:44 PM PDT

  •  Incredible diary! (none / 0)

    Incidentaly, I was watching the discovery channel tonight at 10 pm and they had a program entitled "The Return of the Black Death" or something like that in which they hypothesized that the black death was not caused by the bubonic plague. They said that in many parts of northern Europe there were no rats, and since rat fleas are resposible for transmitting the plague to humans, it was impossible for them to infect people where there were no rats. They also showed other evidence like the extremely rapid time in which the epidemic spread, and that even some of the symptoms described are not compatible with plague symptoms...I don't know why, but apparently I fell asleep 10 minutes before the show ended so I didn't get to see what they would say was the real culprit of the black death...do you have any insight into this "debate" ?

    "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

    by michael1104 on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:37:50 PM PDT

    •  What (none / 0)

      may have happened is that the bacteria which causes bubonic plague worked with other microbes. Those other diseases evolved furiously in weakened human hosts and in some places those virulent strains subsequently acted on their own or in various combos. Anthrax, smallpox, TB, and perhaps even ebola are a few such likely players.

      Read UTI, your free thought forum

      by DarkSyde on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:51:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  DarkSyde you Rock! (none / 0)

          Just a trivial idea; I've known people who were untroubled by mosquitoes while others (myself) were tormented. Perhaps diet or physiology make some people just taste bad,to fleas anyway.                                             Also, what was Karl Roves part in all of this?  
    •  Most scholars don't take that theory seriously. (4.00 / 4)

      I spent a whole semester of college writing about bubonic plague -- granted, it was the outbreaks in the Byzantine Empire that I concentrated on, but the plague in that era (known as "Justinian's Plague") has never really merited books of its own, so I ended up pawing through a whole lot of works about the Black Death just so that I could read the occasional snippets about the earlier pandemic.

      Anyway.  I was using fairly recent sources (Ole Benedictow's recent work comes to mind) and most of them did raise the question that maybe the Black Death wasn't actually plague.  The Byzantine pandemic, after all, was much more easily identifiable in retrospect (and it was definitely plague).  From what I recall, it's true that the evidence could point to a different disease, BUT the pandemic also fails to match any of the other possibilities given (smallpox and anthrax were the two that I recall being mentioned a lot).  Epidemiologically speaking, there is also the possibility that it was a different, possibly now-extinct strain of the disease; its origin, long placed in Mongolia, has now come under scrutiny, especially since recent research shows that the Byzantine epidemic probably started in Egypt.

      But what it seemed like to me is that although the evidence is fuzzy enough to call the nature of the Black Death into question, there's no other disease that seems to fit the profile better.  Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong; the Black Death was not the focus of my research (it was a historiographical paper and therefore it wasn't about epidemiology at all), so I could be in error, though I don't think so.

      -2.75, -3.90 -- Please don't eat the moderates.

      by iCaroline on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:59:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wikipedia has a summary (none / 0)

        Wikipedia has a good summary of the current state of the debate.

        I remember reading that the descriptions by eyewitnesses of the 1348 outbreak were medically precise but didn't fit plague exactly. (Primary sources listed further down on Wikipedia link.) But as you say, nothing else suggested seems to fit better.

  •  myth alert (4.00 / 2)

    Pretty wicked origin for an innocent childhood nursery rhyme.

    "Ring around the rosie" is not about the black plague.

    Snopes does a good job debunking this one (like so many others), here.

    We Democrats are deciduous. We fade, lose heart, become torpid, languish, then the sap rises again, and we are passionate. -- Garrison Keillor

    by Evan on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:49:02 PM PDT

    •  Daaaaaaaamn (none / 0)

      ...you beat me right to it!!

      -2.75, -3.90 -- Please don't eat the moderates.

      by iCaroline on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:51:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm aware (none / 1)

      of this. There are however differing views on that. Some claim it has no relation, others claim it does, each POV debunks the other guy's argument as ridiculous while holding out their own as impeccable.

      Read UTI, your free thought forum

      by DarkSyde on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:53:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One more thing... (none / 0)

        ...I don't recall snorting ashes as ever being a treatment for the plague.  But you never know.

        -2.75, -3.90 -- Please don't eat the moderates.

        by iCaroline on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 11:08:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You may (none / 0)

          be quite right. Even those who claim the plague as the origin disagree on the references. The rhyme apparently wasn't published widely until the late 1800s. Some claim that the 'ring around the rosy' line refers to the red rashes and sores, others say it's rings of people walking around flower bushes. Similar interps exist for the rest. Some say ashes refers to burning the infected corpses and their bedding.

          Read UTI, your free thought forum

          by DarkSyde on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 11:25:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm English (none / 0)

            and have never heard the word "ashes" in this context, so I suspect you're trying to "explain" a word that didn't originally exist.
            •  How does it go? (none / 0)

              Is there a different English version without "ashes, ashes"?

              Republicans can't run a country. All they can run is a smear campaign. ~ GMT

              Vice harms the doer ~ Socrates

              by kdub on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 07:09:19 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  There (none / 0)

                are at least two English versions both of which say 'a-choo' or 'a-t-shoo' instead of 'ashes', some think it's be a reference to sneezing. Of all the items I researched for this piece there were more mutually exclusive claims, counter claims, and outright anger from varying POVs on 'ring around the rosy' than the origin of the plague or the vector of HIV. Seems crazy, but cultural memes like 'ring around the rosy' are tough to pin down and some folks apparently get real excited about it.

                Read UTI, your free thought forum

                by DarkSyde on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 07:15:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  asdf (none / 0)

                  That's really fascinating.

                  Seems crazy, but cultural memes like 'ring around the rosy' are tough to pin down and some folks apparently get real excited about it.

                  I guess the public health side of most crises gets better documented than the waves of cultural phenomena rippling from the crises do.

                  Republicans can't run a country. All they can run is a smear campaign. ~ GMT

                  Vice harms the doer ~ Socrates

                  by kdub on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 07:49:57 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Right (none / 0)

                    arguments are easier to settle when there is repeatable, clinical, data. Although as our friends the creationist teach us, such info doesn't always settle everyone. Nursery rhymes, cadence, phrasology, words, etc., all stem from sources which in turn stem form others, few of which are avaiable in any kind of credible record.

                    Read UTI, your free thought forum

                    by DarkSyde on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 07:59:10 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Not convinced... (none / 0)

      by Snopes arguement on this one.
      •  I'm really unimpressed (none / 0)

        by the startling dishonesty of pinning the argument around incredulity that the rhyme could have sruvived for century after century, half a millennium, older than Chaucer, and why isn't there a Middle English version... and then blandly putting a little bit in brackets to say that all of this reasoning applies equally strongly if the rhyme referred to the seventeenth century plague as well. When of course it does not, especially the "Middle English" bit.

        If the author had the courage of his thesis, he'd go to the trouble of debunking the seventeenth century origin theory, then point out that this argument applies just as strongly to a Middle Ages origin theory.

  •  Sorry to burst your bubble, but... (none / 1)

    "ring around the roses" is a myth.

    I linked to Snopes there, but I actually did a substantial paper in college about bubonic plague, so I could dig up the sources and link you to something more scholarly.

    -2.75, -3.90 -- Please don't eat the moderates.

    by iCaroline on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:50:45 PM PDT

  •  Outstanding again of course... (none / 0)

    ...but surprised you didn't touch on the really nasty shit ones out there.. the hemorrhagic bugs like Ebola and Marburg.
    •  As a student of science journalism... (4.00 / 2)

      ...Ebola is whack.  Yes, the gory Hot Zone details are about as good as they get (journalists would call them "sexy"), but the disease has such difficulty spreading that as a potential worldwide pandemic, it's kind of a dud.

      We were actually just talking about this last week in the sci-journ workshop that I'm in at school, and there was pretty unanimous agreement that while Richard Preston is good at scaring people, he's also quite good at hype.  Read Demon in the Freezer and you'll know what I mean -- the book is just a load of speculation.

      If you're going to write about a genuinely scary pandemic, the Black Death, the Great Plague of London (which actually was a late outbreak of the same pandemic that included the Black Death several centuries prior) or the 1918 flu are the best choices.  Ebola makes good horror stories but doesn't really teach us much about epidemics.

      -2.75, -3.90 -- Please don't eat the moderates.

      by iCaroline on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 11:05:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  sci-journ (none / 0)

        Hey iCaroline,

        Can I ask which program you're in and whether you'd recommend it? I'm working on a career change and sci journalism is looking promising.

        Like your palindromic user number, btw.

        m3

        If we eliminate the slippery slope argument, pretty soon we'll eliminate all argument and everybody will agree.

        by m3 on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 01:55:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hey, sorry I didn't get back to you about this... (none / 0)

          I'm in Princeton University's Program in the History of Science, but am adapting it to a more journalistic path.  Good science journalism programs pop up randomly -- recently one of my seminars met with a science writer for the Philadelphia Enquirer who had been to a science writing program at UC Santa Cruz that she spoke very highly of.

          The one big restriction (which I ran into) is that many science journalism programs have a prerequisite of a strong science background (i.e. an undergraduate degree in the natural or physical sciences, or engineering) -- NOT just a deep respect for and understanding of science.  That's why I'm in an HoS program instead.

          Let me know what you decide on!

          -2.75, -3.90 -- Please don't eat the moderates.

          by iCaroline on Mon Oct 03, 2005 at 07:28:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Oh goodie, the perfect person... (none / 0)

        ... who can answer my question (everyone else feel free to chime in too):

        If one has a limited amount of time to read on any one topic, what would be your three top recommendations for books about the flu pandemic of the early 20th century?

        I would appreciate your opinion(s)!

    •  Most successful viruses (4.00 / 2)

      don't kill their host so quickly.  For a virus to spread it needs to be able to reproduce itself and spread from person to person.  It's not able to do that if it kills 90% of its hosts.  It's not to say that Ebola or Marburg couldn't mutate or combine to make it less deadly...

      McCain: Less jobs, more war.

      by Unstable Isotope on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 04:40:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Generally (none / 1)

        true to my understanding but not always quite that simple. Rabies virus kills its victim and rather quickly. It spreads because it pulls the molecular strings of its host to spread the infection. Epidemics run in groups. One pathogen opens the doors for others, who then have the chance to mutate quickly.

        Read UTI, your free thought forum

        by DarkSyde on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 06:41:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Anecdotal evidence... (none / 1)

    I once had lunch with a rather prominent HIV researcher who loves to tell this story:

    In the early days of HIV research, many folks would isolate T cells from the other poor saps in the lab to propogate viral stocks or do experiments.  There was one guy in the lab whose blood cells never worked quite right--they could never figure out why they couldn't get virus to replicate very well in T cells derived from his samples.  Years later, this research tracked the guy down, and guess what: he was homozygous null for CCR5--one of those lucky 1-2% on Northern European descent.

    There was just a great article in Sciene this past month on Yersinia pestis immunomodulatory effects.  Pretty cool stuff.

    The really scary thing?  There are usually a few cases of Yersinia in the American Southwest every couple of years--unfortunately on or near reservations.

    There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who cannot.

    by Mote Dai on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 10:55:00 PM PDT

  •  T cells (4.00 / 3)

    I prefer to think of them as "Mr. T" cells, as in: I pity the fool who messes with me, Mr. T cell!
  •  A Charmingly Depressive Way (none / 1)

    to take our minds off politics, but only momentarily, as you imply, because this diary is a perfect illustration of why political solutions must emerge quickly to ensure reliable funding of our scientific infrastructure, e.g., NIH, NSF, etc., not to mention basic education at K-12 levels.  And, hell, not just the sciences, either.  We desperately need the humanities to help us interpret our ever changing world in relation to our specific values and experiences as humans.  We need education, not corporate infotainment and propaganda.  We can do none of this at current levels of fiscal ineptitude and corruption.  Others have noted that investing in education/technology is the prime engine of economic growth, as well.  Our government thinks that corporate outsourcing is the solution, as long as they are CEOs.  Honestly, who are these gobsmacking idiots in power?  This occurs on both sides of the isle, but the current crew, e-friggin-gads!  God hep me.  The millenium of biological thought is upon us, and all such profit that should ensue from its methods, are being methodically sold out by the sociological plauges of stupidity, religious ideology, resource mismanagement, and war, hallmarks of these self-professed conservatives.  Fucking, fucking idiots.  Good diary.

    We don't have time for short-term thinking.

    by Compound F on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 11:44:25 PM PDT

  •  Plague, Butler and politics (4.00 / 8)

    An apt posting to remind everyone of Dr. Thomas Butler, who is spending his second year in federal prison as a political prisoner.

    Butler is one of the world's leading experts on Y. pestis and has been widely cited for his work helping to save millions of children from diarrheal death through development of oral rehydration therapy (ORT).  

    His life has been destroyed and he is penniless.  He was arrested as one of the first victims of Bush's calculated paranoia, and if you question whether this administration has committed war on science, look no further.  

    Protest letters by the US National Academy of Sciences and others have gone unheard.  Links to his plight can be found at the Federation of American Scientists website and in a stunning article at the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases here .

    Donations in support of Dr. Butler's pro bono legal team, payable to the Thomas Butler Legal Defense Fund, may be sent to:

    Daniel C. Schwartz, Esq.
    Bryan Cave LLP
    700 Thirteenth Street, N.W.
    Washington, D.C. 20005

    "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." Frank Zappa

    by zootfloggin on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 12:51:38 AM PDT

    •  This is a travesty. (none / 1)

      Thanks for bringing this up.  I read about this while it was happening, but didn't read about the conviction.

      It's ironic.  With the Feds blessing, some institutions sent Sadaam Hussein anthrax and other potential virulent bio-weapons.  Here we have a researcher who's bonifides are well in order, and whose work could help in the cause, but he was railroaded by an evil administration.

      •  On the bright side, he doesn't have to worry about (none / 1)

        NIH grant renewals.

        Thanks for the comment, I'd appreciate it if you bring up Butler's case whenever possible and rate comments on it highly.  This case hasn't gotten any traction on dKos, but it exactly the stuff that the brown-shirts were made of.

        1. Butler appropriately alerted authorities, when he mistakenly thought that some plague samples were missing.  The fact that he audited his own lab is pretty striking if you know scientists.
        2. They arrested him!  Then the DA stated that he needed to teach these scientists a lesson, so when they couldn't make bioterrorism charges stick, they trumped up a civil dispute over OVERHEAD (not kidding) into a fraud charge and railroaded him.  

        DarkSyde's post is excellent, isn't it?  I've got a soft spot in my lymphocytes for KSHV which causes Kaposi's sarcoma but can't do nearly as good a job in describing it.

        "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." Frank Zappa

        by zootfloggin on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 02:31:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Good point... (none / 1)

          Two years in prison vs. having to write a grant proposals...?  I think some of the researches I know would prefer the prison time. :)

          Humor aside, because of your advocacy I'm writing a check to his legal defense fun.

          Thanks Zoot.

          Cheers,
          Paulie

  •  Why DKos is like golf (4.00 / 6)

    Every time I come back, most of the experience is the equivalent of wicked duck hooks to the left, shots out of bunkers that move lots of sand but not the ball, and putts that should go straight but veer off in upredictable directions.

    Then, on the 18th hole, the stars align, the mind expects nothing, and all of a sudden you drive the green and one-putt for an eagle, and you think - this game (DKos) is great.  And you come back for more.

    DarkSyde, amidst the ObamaRants, tinfoil and trivia, do I thank you or curse you for keeping me addicted to this blog??

    "That's hard to explain without using the phrase 'you gullible toad.'" Dilbert

    by gbussey on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 01:00:40 AM PDT

  •  Terriffic! (none / 0)

    Enjoyable read, great narrative style.

    Thanks DarkSyde!

  •  Effing incredible, dude ! (4.00 / 4)

    An especially delicious tale of terror (with a dash of hope) for someone :

    1. who has lived with HIV for 20 years and though not unaffected, is still relatively healthy;
    2. whose father was a full-blooded Brit;
    3. who can reliably trace his paternal - and wholly British - ancestry back for more than a dozen generations.

    Given the above, I'd lay odds that I have one defective copy of the CCR5 gene. Who woulda thunk it that my drunk-bastard father's genes may have saved my life ?

    "Separate ... (is) inherently unequal." Brown v. Board of Education, 5/17/54

    by WereBear Walker on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 03:54:22 AM PDT

  •  Biological warfare (none / 1)

    It is believed that the Europeans brought smallpox to the American continent, which killed 90-95% of the population.  There was absolutely no immunity in the population.

    I think the modern population is probably very vulnerable because of our germophobic society.  A global pandemic could occur, which is very scary.

    McCain: Less jobs, more war.

    by Unstable Isotope on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 04:45:56 AM PDT

    •  One interesting historical "what if..." (none / 0)

      ...is "what if the Norsemen had brought the European diseases to North America around the year 1000?"

      Of course, the diseases would have cut a wide swathe through the Native American population. But the Norsemen had neither the numbers nor the technology to take advantage of that opening. The native populations would have recovered, and the survivors would have had as much immunity as Europeans had. How would things have developed post-Columbus, then?

      •  Oddly enough... (none / 0)

        We already know what would have happened because as it turns out, the Vikings did manage to reach North America before Columbus did. They even set up a temporary settlements in what's now Newfoundland and Labrador. This is all well documentated: archeological digs have been carried out at the Viking settlement at L'Anse-Aux-Meadows, Newfoundland since the 1960's.  

        Any diseases that they might have brought over didn't have the chance to get very far simply because the local population density was so low.

        The smallpox introduced by the Spanish to Mexico took root in what was then one of North America's highest population centres.

        Not only that, but the Spanish had far higher mobility than did the natives encountered by the Vikings. Which meant that they could spread disease far more quickly than any of the Beothuks that had become sick.

        So what does this all mean? It would have been far more interested to speculate about what might have happened had the Romans managed to discover the New World. :)

  •  great post (none / 0)

    You'd have a good career as a science writer.
  •  Couldn't this have waited (none / 0)

    until Halloween? You better have something good up your sleeve for the end of the month, because as it is, I'm shitting bricks.
  •  Speaking of biological agents.... (none / 0)

    Did anyone see this article in the Post yesterday?  

    Health Officials Vigilant for Illness After Sensors Detect Bacteria on Mall

    Bio-sensors at the National Mall detected low levels of the bacteria that causes Tularemia last weekend during the protests.

    •  Bio sensors ? (none / 0)

      I remember they were posting them in big cities to detect bio-terror.

      BioTech is pretty cool, I wish our Fundi-in-Chief would foster it instead of trying to erradicate it.

      Stay the Course will be their epitaph

      by lawnorder on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 07:45:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Aaaaackkk!!! (none / 0)

    Scary stuff!

    Stay the Course will be their epitaph

    by lawnorder on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 07:43:04 AM PDT

  •  CF was a mutation to defend against TB (4.00 / 2)

    Scientists are now almost certain that Cystic Fibrosis was an unsuccessful mutation to try to defend the body against tuberculosis. The thickened mucus evidentally does defend the body against tuberculosis, but that thickened mucus ends up killing a CF patient by reducing their ability to digest food and absorb oxygen in the blood stream.

    DarkSyde, figured you'd appreciate another example of a disease that developed as to a mutation to defend against a different disease.

  •  CCR-5 is a GPCR? (none / 1)

    I didn't know that.   It isn't my target area, no pun intended, but I find the fusion protein, GPCR, CD40 complex very insteresting from a structural standpoint.  Looks like several interaction surfaces may be amenable to drug intervention.  So far, HIV research has been focused on protease inhibitors because that was what was thought to be the virus's Achilles heel.  
    My initial search of the Brookhaven Protein Databank didn't turn up a crystal structure but I'm going to keep looking.  
    Thanks for making my morning.  I remember seeing the HIV/Bubonic Plague connection on PBS last year but your presentation definitely piqued my interest.  

    -3.63, -4.46 "Choose something like a star to stay your mind on- and be staid"

    by goldberry on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 08:43:50 AM PDT

  •  Another excellent diary - (none / 0)

    - certainly worthy of further publication.

    I've recently read that scientists believe the HIV virus may be mutating into a less lethal version...what do you know about that?

    "There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." - Gandhi

    by hopesprings on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 09:23:10 AM PDT

    •  Most likely true... (none / 1)

      Old World Monkeys in Africa live with an endemic virus related to HIV called the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus (SIV).  Almost all of them (sooty mangabeys, vervets) have it, and they don't get sick from it.  SIV has evolved in that population to live in the host without killing it, which is probably what HIV will likely be like humans in about 1000 years (if we don't blow ourselves off the planet by then).  BTW, HIV evolved from SIV and most likely entered the human population from the bushmeat trade (humans eating monkeys with SIV).  
      •  Thanks. (none / 0)

        Do you know if there is any evidence in humans that the virus is evolving?

        "There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." - Gandhi

        by hopesprings on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 10:03:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, HIV evolves (none / 0)

          as does everything else that has a genetic code (I don't say living because that gets into a murky area when talking about viruses).  In fact, due to the way it replicates it has an unusually high mutation rate and is not a single species but thousands of related species.  Evolution occurs when random mutations enhance replication fitness.  In this case, HIV that uses the CCR5 coreceptor (together with CD4) is what is ususually first transmitted person-to-person.  It grows best in cells called macrophages and dendritic cells.  This form is called macrophage-trophic.  Over time, mutations in the HIV coat protein occur that increase the ability of the virus to use a second coreceptor called CXCR4 instead of CCR5.  This molecule is more common on CD4 T lymphocytes and the virus rapidly spreads and kills off T cells through this mechanism.  These strains are called lymphotrophic.  

          Two things:

          1.  Hooper is a horse's ass and HIV did not spread from polio vaccine.  This is well-established through molecular timeclocks, examining stored vaccine lots, etc.  HIV-1 (not HIV-2/SIV) came from a chimpanzee subspecies but not through the vaccine.  Regarding Fauci, just because you don't like someone doesn't mean he/she is wrong.   Thinking that way is Republican.  
          2. Free Thomas Butler (see my post above).

          "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life." Frank Zappa

          by zootfloggin on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 12:05:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Hooper would disagree (none / 0)

        His book, "The River" clearly maps out the origin of HIV. An interesting theory, and one Anthony Fauci calls "junk" science.

        If Fauci is against Hooper's theory, I'm all for it.

        I called and spoke to Fauci on c-span recently and asked him about the CHAT that was never tested.(chimpanzee atenuated) He got all defensive and said the CHAT had been tested.

        I'd like to see proof of that besides some celebrity wannabe doctor like Fauci.

        •  Fauci may be a jerk (none / 0)

          But Hooper has caused more harm with his crackpot theories than possibly any "journalist" I know.  All of the scientific evidence points to SIV from chimpanzees jumping into humans at several times in history.  See this article which explains the scientific evidence supporting what I posted above.  What Hooper has managed to do is to convince some African leaders that the polio vaccine is dangerous, and now, guess what, polio is making a comeback in several countries.  There is absolutely no evidence that HIV came about from the polio vaccine.  
          •  Wow! Teriffic, thanks! (none / 0)

            As a lay person, I find it very difficult to understand all the language, but being interested in the source of HIV I try to read everything I can.

            It is a crime that Hooper's work has caused more polio cases. His book is compelling, like a good mystery, and I remember hunching over it for a week or more. So, what happened to him? Has he been banned from scientific research? Is he dead?

            Ordinary people like me don't even know the right questions to ask, let alone receive any info from the MSM on news that can't be printed on a bumper sticker. It's a shame. Life is so short to live it in ignorance.

            Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

  •  Religious opportunists... (none / 0)

    Reading this, I found myself thinking of some verses from Phil Ochs:

    "Ignorance is everywhere and people have their say
    Success is an enemy to the losers of the day
    In the shadows of the churches who knows what they pray?
    And blood is the language of the band."

    "The Romans brought on their own demise, but it took them centuries. Bush has finished America in a mere 7 years." -- Paul Craig Roberts

    by Roddy McCorley on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 11:17:50 AM PDT

Permalink | 97 comments