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Of all the analyzing of Judith Miller's account of her interactions with the Bush administration, one aspect of her piece has received little attention:  her explanation of Libby's letter.

As she admits, Fitzgerald asked whether the letter was meant to shape her testimony.  Miller said no, instead offering up this explanation:

When I was last before the grand jury, Mr. Fitzgerald posed a series of questions about a letter I received in jail last month from Mr. Libby. The letter, two pages long, encouraged me to testify. "Your reporting, and you, are missed," it begins.

Mr. Fitzgerald asked me to read the final three paragraphs aloud to the grand jury. [...]

Mr. Fitzgerald also focused on the letter's closing lines. "Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning," Mr. Libby wrote. "They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them."

How did I interpret that? Mr. Fitzgerald asked.

In answer, I told the grand jury about my last encounter with Mr. Libby. It came in August 2003, shortly after I attended a conference on national security issues held in Aspen, Colo. After the conference, I traveled to Jackson Hole, Wyo. At a rodeo one afternoon, a man in jeans, a cowboy hat and sunglasses approached me. He asked me how the Aspen conference had gone. I had no idea who he was.

"Judy," he said. "It's Scooter Libby."

The Aspen Conference connection we already knew.  But it was the reference to Jackson Hole that struck me as the most interesting reference.

See, Cheney lives in Jackson Hole.

Indeed, in August 2003 when Judy went to the town Cheney was taking a month-long vacation there.  For the entire month of August, Cheney was fundraising and staying at his mansion in little Jackson Hole. As the article linked above shows, it is Libby himself who decides who is the bouncer for Cheney's Jackson Hole mansion, deciding who gets a guest pass and a chance to meet the VP.

And it Libby who Judy conveniently met at the "rodeo" in Jackson Hole, wearing a cowboy hat and sunglasses. And are we truly to believe that Judy and Libby did not discuss what was, at that time, an exploding scandal that had the press all worked up?  

Futhermore, is it too much speculation or just a natural inference from the facts that Judy met with Cheney that August in Jackson Hole? Is that why Fitzgerald is so intent on deciphering Cheney's role?  

They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them.

Just conjecture....but we'll see soon enough.

Update [2005-10-16 10:9:48 by georgia10]:: I'm not sure if this was already addressed; I did a search and nothing came up. If it's already been diaried, let me know and I'll delete.

Update [2005-10-16 10:54:19 by georgia10]:: OK, so the "search" function still sucks but the "Tag search" is pretty cool. That's how I found out that teresahill already addressed this, as have katerina, and wendellgee. So, feel free to visit and recommend her diary from last night and unrecommend this one. :)Sorry for the dupe.

Originally posted to Georgia Logothetis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 07:03 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Georgia10, the Aspen references were so... (4.00)
    Out of the context of that letter from Libby, that they HAVE to be code.  They think we're all so stupid they can talk code right out in front of us -- in legal letters about to be made public.  What hubris!  Sounds like Fitzgerald may have recognized the same.
    •  Fitzgerald's no fool (none)
      Whether or not he can actually make anything come of it is quite another matter, of course.

      And definitely a good catch here. This thing has too many layers for nothing to come of it.

    •  We've got to stop using "hubris" (none)
      And just use arrogant. Or better yet, stupidity. These are the more accurate terms.
      •  No hubris is a perfect word for this crowd, (4.00)
        Arrogant doesn't sufficiently convey the overweening aspect or the consequent comedown that is associated with hubris. Nemesis (fate) is the Greek goddess who always brought down those afflicted by hubris. Unfortunately not all arrogant sobs get theirs in the end. But everyone with hubris does. See Shakespeare and Agatha Christie - she wrote a great mystery called Nemesis.
            I was in Turkey this summer looking at some Hellenistic art and was very tempted to send a postcard of a wonderful sculpted Nemesis to Bush. The label was crystal clear about the relationship of Nemesis to hubris.

        You don't get to keep democracy unless you fight for it.

        by artebella on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:22:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Titles of Ian Kershaw's Hitler biography. (none)
          First volume has as subtitle "Hubris."  Second volume has as subtitle "Nemesis."
        •  Hubris might be the best word but (4.00)
          For a while there, it was the word that all the MSM were using. It made arrogance sound polished rather than saying, 'Oh, they are just stupid and arrogant'. But, hubris is not an everyday word in our society, and the meaning of the word is not always understood by all of the people and it therefore becomes an ineffective word. You say arrogant and all the people understand and not just the ones with the degrees. I remember people asking me what this quagmire was about. To get a message across you can not talk above your audience. Remember GW and his folksy kinda of talking to the people. All honey and grits and ya'll. So hubris might be the best word to describe these arrogant-stupid people, but it is not 'trashy' enough. Can you picture Tony Soprano saying. 'That F**king Hubris Prick'?    

          Barn Babe Parking Only... All others will be towed....

          by BarnBabe on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:12:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  no, and here's why (none)
            Hubris is a noun.  Arrogant is an adjective.

            "Mr Pres, what's your opinion on Roe vs Wade?" "I don't care how they get out of New Orleans!"

            by Leggy Starlitz on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:21:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  just loooked it up (none)
            extreme arrogance is how hubris is defined in the NYT Everyday Dictionary.
               You have a good point about reaching a general audience. But this is not just about the definition of a word - this is about a concept.
            You go too far, you presume too much, you think you are above it all - nope, you will eventually come up short; reality won't let you stay there above it all. All that in one word - hubris.
               We either need to stop dumbing down the american people and use hubris with a short explanation - or to convey the dangerous extremity of the arrogance. Even arrogance has lost some meaning - so how about a little thought on a meme for the concepts of Nemesis and Hubris?
              s/He who thinks s/he is above it all will eventually be brought down -
               I'm sure someone can do better than this and am also sure that this is a frame we should be presenting now - while and after Fitzgerald gives the hubristic sobs the nemesis they deserve.

            You don't get to keep democracy unless you fight for it.

            by artebella on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:46:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And why the hell not (none)
              educate that "wider" audience on the meaning of a great, perfectly descriptive word in our late-great language?

              As a third-generation English major, I say HUBRIS fits this cabal perfectly.

              "The responsibility of government for the public safety is absolute and requires no mandate." -Winston Churchill

              by hopesprings on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 11:42:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Exactly... (none)
                in my own personal lexicon, "hubris" is the type of arrogance that contains within it, implicitly, one's own undoing...or the type of arrogance that challenges the Gods and causes them to want to treat you like a cat plays with a mouse.  It's perfect and 100% accurate, apropos and on the money.

                "We're all working for the Pharoah" - Richard Thompson

                by mayan on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 11:54:06 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Well we are the lucky ones who have a degree (none)
                But how many others out there don't. And how many others out there do not want to admit that they do not know what the word means and just keep hearing it? I agree it is the right word and I also agree with you that we need to educate the 'others' to the meaning of the word. My problem is that I have not heard one MSN person saying, Hey, hubris is a good word to describe the arrogance of this administration. That would be educational. Reading this discussion is educational. Looking up the meaning of the word is educational. But the people in the political discussions almost made it look as if I am using a big word the public has not been hearing and that makes me smarter. No, it makes them more arrogant if they start using the DC 'buzz'words' without the benefit of explanation. I remember Leslie Stahl telling Chris Mathews that she had just heard a new term that very day while touring with the Bush campaign. 'Folksy'. And that was what GW was going to be playing on TV and at whistle stops. Folksy. That was a good heads up.

                Hubris is a good word and very describing but sooooooo many people do not know what it means. Some of us majored in Accounting and although I knew the word, I still looked it up around the second time I heard it because of the way it was being thrown around in discussion. I bet some of the reporters looked it up also. So one really good thing came up about this discussion, we ALL know why the word is being used appropriately. :)

                Barn Babe Parking Only... All others will be towed....

                by BarnBabe on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 12:35:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  also (none)
              as someone pointed out a day or two ago, it has the advantage that if you reshuffle the letters in hubris you get:  I R Bush.

              although it's getting late, you still have plenty of time

              by maracuja on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 12:27:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed (none)
            George Bush is not a tragic figure. The only tragedy here is what is being done to the American people and in their name.
          •  "Hubris" was defined (none)
            in a Philosophy class that I took several years ago as the inner knowledge that one can do to the "other" as he pleases.  My professor said that rape is the purest expression of hubris.  

            Thinking about that class brought "Symposium" to mind and I recognized GWB as the Alcibiades of our time.  

            Wikipedia says that Alcibiades, "Thus early deprived of his father's control, possessed of great personal beauty and the heir to great wealth, which was increased by his marriage, he showed himself self-willed, capricious and passionate, and indulged in the most insolent behaviour. Nor did the instructors of his early manhood supply the corrective which his boyhood lacked. From Protagoras, Prodicus, and others he learnt to laugh at the common ideas of justice, temperance, holiness and patriotism."

            It could have been written about George W. himself.

            •  except for (none)
              the part about great personal beauty. I don't find the man to be attractive, on the outside or the inside, and I don't think he'd be the kind to get by on "looks" alone. So he got by on his Daddy's name and money. Hey, whatever works, right?

              "People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

              by rioduran on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 11:15:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  In one aspect it is effective (none)
          Hubris is derived from 'hybris' (Greek ύβρις) who was also a goddess in greek mythology. Said to be "the embodiment of the above concept, insolence, lack of restraint and instinct. She spent most of her time among mortals."

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

          Q: Do you Mr President consider you are doing God's work? That you are the "hand of God"?

          A: Uh..

    •  Were Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan in that (none)
           movie, by the way?

           Or am I thinking of something else?

           "When Harry Reid met Sally"?

    •  Is Fitzgerald a horticulturalist? (4.00)
      I haven't seen anybody yet explain the reference to Aspen clusters and roots. Maybe it's obvious, but in any case Aspen trees grow in groups from the same root system--they're all linked together. The roots system is unusually durable and resilient. It can survive for hundreds or thousands of years. When it's damaged, the roots tend to send up new sprouts. The root systems even survive forest fires, so Aspens often dominate otherwise barren landscapes. Sounds like code to me.

      I don't know why Libby referred specifically to their leaves turning. The most noticeable thing about Aspens is that their leaves quake easily in the wind, which has given rise to several myths. One of the myths says

      that aspen leaves are made from female tongues, and their quivering is due to women's inability to stop talking.

      It would be interesting to know whether Libby and Miller ever discussed aspen trees.

      •  on the other hand... (none)
        If aspens turn in clusters, perhaps he's talking about mutually turning on Cheney?  After all, just from what we've seen in public, Libby clearly violated the Agee law, and possibly the Espionage law as well.  He's going to jail for a LONG time, unless either he's pardoned, or he rats on someone more important... and the only person that might be is Cheney.

        "Mr Pres, what's your opinion on Roe vs Wade?" "I don't care how they get out of New Orleans!"

        by Leggy Starlitz on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:24:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Perhaps "turning" .... (none)
          "connect" and "clusters" wrapped in poetic license expresses his resignation, or fatalism, regarding the compilation of testimony and evidence  ... that the dominoes - or aspens - are connected, aligned against him, and falling, and what Judy does is of little import, he is going down. And perhaps he thinks Cheney will get snagged in this web of fate, or it could be he was just referring to himself (and Rove). In any case, it has a certain sad and resigned quality to it: the jig is up. It could be just that.

          Should a liberal Dem blog be driven into "safe zones" by a tame party, or should it drive a tame party to break out?

          by NYCee on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 11:27:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No more pardons at the Inn? (none)
          That's my conclusion, too, about the Aspens.  "Turning in clusters" means one faction turning on the other, in order to save their own, connected-at-the-roots, asses.

          Now, we've all assume, me among ya, that Bush will pardon any and all who fall into Fitz' snare.  But maybe that ain't the case?

          Maybe Bush either believes that someone must take the Fall, for the good of party, including not getting pardoned.  Because just maybe they're a leetle afraid of public wrath.

          And Bush is just the kind of angry, childish bastard to WANT someone to go down, to punish for letting him suffer the Plame scandal.

          Hence the scrambling among the infighters.

          Now, Judy did two things:  First, she corroborated LIbby's story vis a vis disclosing Plame's undercover status.  Second, she pointed to Some Other Dude as the real culprit (gave her the name 'Valerie Flame')

          Libby, knowing Rove is Bush's guy, knowing Libby is unlikely to get a Bush pardon, is maneuvering for Karl to take the fall.  It makes sense, too, that Judy is in the Libby/Cheney camp--the neocons, etc., the WMD group.  That's her aspen cluster.

          •  One thing that's guaranteed (none)
            is that if Judy recognized the aspen reference, she would hardly reveal its context to us. I took her comments this morning as misdirection (at best)...

            "[I]n all due respect to your profession [journalism], you do a very good job of protecting the leakers." -- Bush on Oct 7, 2003

            by QuickSilver on Mon Oct 17, 2005 at 12:29:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Color changing or storm coming (4.00)
        Turning together:  when I read this first I thought it was an allusion to the leaves changing color together (maybe combined with a flavor of turning state's evidence), but I just thought of another aspen characteristic--when a storm is coming the leaves all turn over.  So this may be a reference to an impending storm.

        Democrats give you the Bill of Rights; Republicans sell you a bill of goods!

        by barbwires on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 10:57:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I should have been more explicit (none)
        about my own interpretation. I took Libby to be saying that everybody was connected. Any one member of the group dying off (leaves turning color) means they're all equally affected. It is less clear whether Libby also meant to remind her that their roots are deep and they can survive and come back from almost any disaster, as long as they keep their network intact. As for the myth, who knows whether he was suggesting she ought to keep her mouth shut.
    •  Well, back in November of last year, (none)
      they got hard evidence that at least 51% or so of the voting public is exactly that stupid.

      And their whole campaign was in code.

      Down, by God, but not out.

      by perro amarillo on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:07:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Is it possible that she and Libby were having an (none)
      affair or something. I mean something about that letter strikes me as deeply strange and their it makes me wonder whether their relationship was strictly professional.
    •  Georgia, Is It 'Meet' or 'Meat' You Intended? n/t (none)
    •  I can't stop humming that old song with new words: (none)

      The last time I saw Libby,
      Our hearts were young and gay

      He wrapped me in some Aspen leaves,
      And told me what to say.................

      "He that sees but does not bear witness, be accursed" Book of Jubilees

      by Lying eyes on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:38:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Damn, serves me right for going to bed! (4.00)
    I went to bed thinking I should check on anything that proved Libby was in Jackson Hole, WY...

    And georgia10 blows me away before I can finish my coffee!!

    Good job as always!

  •  miller's "testimony" (4.00)
    Her article yesterday is clearly a pr piece and I don't think there's any reason to trust any of the details. You're probably right about her "chance" encounter with Libby ...and moreover, I don't believe for a second that Fitzgerald let her get away with "not remembering" where she got the hame "Valerie Flame" or "Victoria Wilson."

    THe pattern of errors clearly suggest both a lazy reporter and a source who wanted to leak the story but not give the name outright ...but moreover, this question is the central one to the investigation. Miller has plenty of reasons to want to tell the world that she wasn't the one to spill the beans to the Grand Jury and there's no other source who can contradict her account (for now).

    But when all is said and done, there is no way that Fitzgerald simply says "oh she can't remember; too bad." Either he knows already who told the name to Miller or Miller's account in the paper of her testimony isn't entirely truthful.

    Which would be far from the first time.

    •  Right.... (4.00)
      ....she went to jail for two months to protect a source whose name she can't recall?
    •  I said this when it came out. (none)
      The ONLY person who can legally talk about Judy Miller's testimony is... Judy Miller. And she does not have to tell the truth about what she said.
      •  Exactly (4.00)
        what is the benefit to her of telling her buddies that hse's ratted them out?

        But, if she has, they'll find out soon enough, when she tirns state's evidence for the trial.  She's hoping she'll have her $1.2m book out and the check cleared before the shit comes down.

        I believe her main reason for this article is to make more of a mystery out of her testimony than is really there, in order to prep the public for her tell-all book.

        If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up... - Hannah and Her Sisters

        by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:43:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  except (none)
        if she's lying now, when she testifies differently at trial she'll look pretty bad.

        Not that i don't think she's lying.

        No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. – Winston Churchill

        by subtropolis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:18:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Victoria Wilson (none)
      I told Mr. Fitzgerald that I was not sure whether Mr. Libby had used this name or whether I just made a mistake in writing it on my own. Another possibility, I said, is that I gave Mr. Libby the wrong name on purpose to see whether he would correct me and confirm her identity.

      All decent hypotheses, to be sure, execpt it's fairly unbelievable that she cannot now remember which one it was (or if it there's some other explanantion). In fact, i'm beginning to think that it's none of those she suggested. "Yeah, see, that's the ticket!"

      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. – Winston Churchill

      by subtropolis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:22:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Atrios (none)
        Has a nice little comment up to show that the name "Victoria Wilson" was used in multiple news accounts, including one by Howard Fineman.
        •  interesting (none)
          Also, Victoria Wilson is the name of a member of the US Commision on Human Rights, appointed by Clinton, and who stepped down in 2002. I suppose it's possible that Miller was checking into whether she might be Joe Wilson's wife. But that doesn't really go anywhere.

          Do you have a link to Atrios' comment?

          No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. – Winston Churchill

          by subtropolis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 10:21:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm Not Sure How To Link (none)
            But Kos has a blog roll that includes a permanent link to Atrios.  If you go to the linked website, the musings of Atrios on "Victoria" are available there.
            •  here (none)
              For some reason, i was thinking you meant atrios commented here. It was actually pointing to Digby's blog Victor/Victoria. And, interestingly enough, the misnaming that occured several times was Victoria Plame, not Wilson. That would explain why google returned nothing special for "Victoria Wilson +CIA".

              No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. – Winston Churchill

              by subtropolis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 11:07:26 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  The other source? (4.00)
    What about her other source she will not reveal, according to her comments in the Times today? Cheney was the first one I thought of.
    Also, the Aspen comment, I agree, it is code. And, it is their arrogance that makes them do things like this. They think they are so far above us, they can do what they want.

    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~ Benjamin Franklin

    by melthewriter on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 07:19:29 AM PDT

    •  Code (4.00)
      When that letter first came out someone said "No one talks like that"

      My reply was "You do if you are involved in a conspiracy"

      Stop mad cowboy disease!

      by wrights on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 07:25:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  katrina (4.00)
      did an excellent job of laying out the one source vs. two source thing. It's a great diary, highly recommended.
    •  Novak from Aspen (4.00)
      Rove and Novak were in Aspen about the same time as Libby spoke it to Judy

       From the article: "It would be a shame if Rove returned to Washington without informing Bush how erstwhile friends have turned against him."

      http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak22.html

      Liberate Jesus from The Fundamentalists

      by NeuroticBlonde on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:54:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not quite... (none)
        Novakula's column is dated 09/22/05 and refers to the 2-day conference where Bush was bashed as occuring "last week," which is approx 09/15 or thereabouts. So there's a 2+ week lag  after when Judy was met at the "rodeo" and when this bashing occured.  So I don't think they were there at the same time.

        "..Black faces in high places does not mean racism is over. Condoleezza Rice has sold her soul..." Cornel West, 9/11/05

        by Wheatbread on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:14:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Tmeframe (4.00)
          The rodeo meeting was in 2003:

          >In answer, I told the grand jury about my last encounter with Mr. Libby. It came in August 2003, shortly after I attended a conference on national security issues held in Aspen, Colo. <

          The Novacula visit to Aspen was last month.

          read that Novak article - fucking unbelievable.

          Who is the close friend of Bush who buttonholed him with gratitude for standing by the man?  Rove?

          •  Rove in Aspen (none)
            Rove was there...but the one you are referring to was a shy financier.

            I was trying to show the connections to "aspen, rove, novak,judy,loyalty, people turning on bush, etc.

            Liberate Jesus from The Fundamentalists

            by NeuroticBlonde on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 05:18:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Novak says he's NOT a defender (none)
        of the Bush presidency??!?!?  LOL

        Cheney died a natural death - on the phone with Halliburton.

        by annefrank on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:36:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  one source, two source (4.00)
      Bennet (Miller's lawyer) assured Fitzgerald that she had only one "meaningful source." Meanwhile, Miller says that the "Valerie Flame" bit came from someone else (who, though, she can't really say).

      Mr. Fitzgerald asked if I could recall discussing the Wilson-Plame connection with other sources. I said I had, though I could not recall any by name or when those conversations occurred.

      Could not recall? Does anyone else find it odd that she cannot remember who told her the most important part of this leak?

      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. – Winston Churchill

      by subtropolis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:09:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow, very perceptive (none)
        observation about the inconsistency between Bennett's representation and Miller's about Miller having one or more sources.
        •  let's parse Bennet's statement (none)
          Or, at least, the description thereof in the Times piece, The Miller Case: A Notebook, a Cause, a Jail Cell and a Deal

          Mr. Bennett, who by now had carefully reviewed Ms. Miller's extensive notes taken from two interviews with Mr. Libby, assured Mr. Fitzgerald that Ms. Miller had only one meaningful source. Mr. Fitzgerald agreed to limit his questions to Mr. Libby and the Wilson matter.

          I'd like to know how that statement by him was worded. Did he say something like, "I've gone over those notebooks carefully and cannot find any other meaningful source"? That would sure leave open the possibility that he knows she has another source(s), and he's checked those notebooks out for any 'meaningful' clue to that other person(s). Because he's sure going to want to understand evrything that Fitzgerald might carry away from them or Miller's testimony.

          Does anyone here know Don Natta, Adam Liptak, or Clifford Levy (who wrote the article)? I'd sure like to have a loo at their notes.

          No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. – Winston Churchill

          by subtropolis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 10:11:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What's also interesting (4.00)
            is that I believe this is before Judy "discovered" the notes about the June 23rd meeting.  I wonder why it is that even after Judy's and the NYT's articles we still don't know for sure if Fitzgerald found out about the notes and the June 23rd meeting and demanded Judy 'fess up or whether Judy volunteered the extra info.  

            Somehow, since a definitive explanation didn't appear in Judy's five page manifesto, I think we can kind of assume the prompting came from Fitzgerald.

            Wonder if Bennett could be in any trouble if it turns out Fitzgerald has definitive info about Judy's second source?

            •  have to prove he knew (none)
              He's a lawyer, i'm sure he can cover for himself.

              You're right, that we're still in the dark about what was in which notebook. I'm thinking "Valerie Flame" was in that first, forgotten one. That was the one from the first meeting.

              No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. – Winston Churchill

              by subtropolis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 10:25:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Notebook with "Valerie Flame" (none)
                was from 2nd meeting (on July 8th).  As far as I know, Judy only refers to notes from newest (mising) notebook of June 23rd meeting in a general way.  She gives no specifics.
      •  Not the most important part of the leak (none)
        The most important part of the leak wasn't the name of Wilson's wife, it was the fact that his wife worked at the CIA.
      •  strange (none)
        abso-fucking-lutely

        very strange...almost like she might be lying.  :-)

        they must want Libby badly!

        Liberate Jesus from The Fundamentalists

        by NeuroticBlonde on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 05:20:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  What questions did Fitzgerald follow with? (4.00)
    Because my first question would be what were you doing in Jackson Hole? If this is the first that we have found out about this encounter has Fitzgerald already known about this meeting or is he just finding out?
    •  she was there for the rodeo, silly (4.00)
      you know, the rodeo that takes place in the "afternoon", not at 8 pm at night.

      I think it's the first time he's found out about her meeting Libby in WY.  

      •  See my comment above (none)
        about the Fed's traditional meeting in Jackson Hole at that time of the year.

        In the long run, we're all dead (Keynes)
        Read more on the European Tribune - bringing dKos to Europe

        by Jerome a Paris on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:06:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  nothing to do with that (none)
          She went there after the Aspen conference, which finished Thursday, August 7. The rodeo ran on Wednesdays & Saturdays. She says she ran into Libby (who was wearing shades – trying to be inconspicuous?) at the rodeo one afternoon, though the rodeo was at 8pm (but sunset during that period was around 8:30pm). Cheney has a house in Jackson Hole. She was there ot meet Libby (and possibly Cheney)

          No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. – Winston Churchill

          by subtropolis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:30:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  get the timeline right, guys (none)
            September 22, 2005

            BY ROBERT NOVAK SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

            The Bush-bashing occurred last weekend at the annual Aspen conference sponsored by the New York investment firm Forstmann Little & Co. More than 200 invited guests, mostly prestigious, arrived Thursday (many by private aircraft) and stayed until Sunday for more than golf, hikes and gourmet meals. They faithfully attended the discussions presided over by PBS' Charlie Rose on such serious subjects as ''global poverty and human rights'' and ''the 'new' world economy.'' The connecting link was hostility to Bush.

            http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak22.html

            the weekend of Sept. 17th & 18th, 2005
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Judy's testimoney:

            Mr. Fitzgerald also focused on the letter's closing lines. "Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning," Mr. Libby wrote. "They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them."

            How did I interpret that? Mr. Fitzgerald asked.

            In answer, I told the grand jury about my last encounter with Mr. Libby. It came in August 2003, shortly after I attended a conference on national security issues held in Aspen, Colo. After the conference, I traveled to Jackson Hole, Wyo. At a rodeo one afternoon, a man in jeans, a cowboy hat and sunglasses approached me. He asked me how the Aspen conference had gone. I had no idea who he was.

            "Judy," he said. "It's Scooter Libby."

            Liberate Jesus from The Fundamentalists

            by NeuroticBlonde on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 05:44:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  She likes Rodeo so much she likes to (none)
        come to the event early to talk to the clowns as they climb into their tires or put on makeup.  

        David Brooks IS the Queen of Sheba.

        by namnick on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:08:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Judy confused about rodeo (4.00)
          To the best of her recollection, she heard that it was a place where people wrote bull and thought she would fit right in.  

          She was disappointed to find men riding Brahma bulls and preppy neocons in cowboy outfits giving her instructions to flame Valerie.

        •  I Bet The Only Rodeo Judy Went To (none)
          Was with Scooter -- when she and ole Scooter had a private session of "bare back riding" at some undisclosed location.

          As for the code in the letter, the "aspens turning" was Libby trying to get Judy to protect him and turn on Rove by telling her that he and his boss (Cheney) were already turning on Bush and Rove.

          Libby and Cheney are connect by roots that go back a very long time.  

      •  Actually.... (none)
        According to the Jackson Hole rodeo page, their rodeos are at 8pm on Wed & Sat night.

        I also find that on August 13, 2003 (which was a Wednesay) -- there indeed was a 'fund-raiser' with Dick in Jackson Hole, WY.

        Could it be that some of those involved met up at the rodeo during this time.

        Considering that indeed, Wed is a night that the rodeo would be held at 8pm AND we know Dick was there on that date for a fundraiser.

        Also, according to an abcnews.com writeup in 'the note'... at 7:30pm Cheney attended the Bush-Cheney fundraiser and it was (closed press).

        this had to be the time that she was there if it was after the aspen conference which did occur in August discussing this topic:

        In Search of An American Grand Strategy for the Middle East (August 2003)
        The Aspen Strategy Group summer workshop in Aspen, Colorado brought together ASG members, regional experts, and several administration officials to discuss the contours and complications of American grand strategy in the Middle East.  The group tackled reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Arab-Israeli conflict, region-wide economic modernization, democratization and security, while examining the necessity for a generational commitment to the region.   The papers commissioned for the session have been released in a monograph along with a synopsis of the discussion written by ASG director, Kurt Campbell.

        I can't find the exact date of that meeting, but it obviously was in August and would have had to have been BEFORE Aug 13 (the fundraiser day).

        •  Aspen Workshop (none)
          Took place August 2-7, 2003.

          Judith Miller was one of the contributors "Countering WMD Proliferation after Iraq" see p.51-58 of In Search of an American Grand Strategy for the Middle East. Cheney is not listed as an attendee but Miller did make a passing reference to him:

          The war in Iraq, the earlier strikes against Al Qaeda and its Afghan hosts, and the Administration's current overt and covert actions in some 60 countries suggest that preemptive action against terrorists and other non-state actors will increase. With respect to terrorists, Americans will act and apologize if need be, or ask questions later. The theme was most recently and forcefully articulated by Vice President Cheney in his July 24th speech in Washington, in which he declared that terrorists could not be "deterred, contained, appeased, or negotiated with." They could only be destroyed, he said, using the word three times. This policy, too, appears to have broad support from Americans.
        •  hrm... (none)
          the necessity for a generational commitment to the region

          Does that mean the Boomers in charge are gonna dump this sack of shit onto us Gen Xers?

          "People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

          by rioduran on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 06:06:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Fitzgerald (none)
      he questioned her on Libby's letter to her.

      the rodeo thing is some bullshit she came up with that happened years ago to blow him off.

      Liberate Jesus from The Fundamentalists

      by NeuroticBlonde on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 05:22:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Follow the money," too! (4.00)
    The value of Cheney's Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year:

    "An analysis released by a Democratic senator found that Vice President Dick Cheney's Halliburton stock options have risen 3,281 percent in the last year, RAW STORY can reveal.

    Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity."

    RAW STORY

    It is better to die standing than to live on your knees. - Emiliano Zapata

    by cotterperson on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 07:50:29 AM PDT

  •  More Aspen / Jackson diaries (4.00)
    Here, here, and here.
  •  Judy's obscurity... (4.00)
    This topics was covered in a open thread diary earlier today...Or at least in the comments.  As here, there were a lot of people that took Judy's comments at face value.  By that, I mean they read this paragraph:


    In answer, I told the grand jury about my last encounter with Mr. Libby. It came in August 2003, shortly after I attended a conference on national security issues held in Aspen, Colo. After the conference, I traveled to Jackson Hole, Wyo. At a rodeo one afternoon, a man in jeans, a cowboy hat and sunglasses approached me. He asked me how the Aspen conference had gone. I had no idea who he was.

    "Judy," he said. "It's Scooter Libby."

    And determined that Judy was saying she had just "shown up."

    In fact, that's what she apparently wants people to think...but that's not what she said.  Read it again:

    After the conference, I traveled to Jackson Hole, Wyo.

    Notice that she said she traveled to Jackson Hole, but doesn't explicitly state why.  Vacation?  Meeting?  Could be either, but by being vague, she  seems to want people to think vacation.

    At a rodeo one afternoon, a man in jeans, a cowboy hat and sunglasses approached me. He asked me how the Aspen conference had gone. I had no idea who he was.

    Just because she didn't recognize him, doesn't mean that it wasn't a pre-arranged meeting--especially if he was dressed differently.  Again, as an experienced writer, ol' Julie is selectively presenting facts to point the reader's thinking in a certain direction.

    All this in answer to Fitz's question about her vacation.  And perhaps it was supposed to be a vacation, but it still doesn't mean it wasn't set up before-hand as a rendezvous site...

    So, Judy makes a bunch of factual statements, but still probably isn't telling the whole truth.

    --Bush lied, 1000 died

    by indyjones48 on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 07:55:01 AM PDT

    •  Libby (none)
      Judith Miller, who has worked at the Washington Bureau of the New York Times since the 1970s and is a regular speaker at neo-Conservative events like the one at Aspen, didn't know who Scooter Libby was?

      You really expect me to believe that?

      "When you starve the beast, you starve the people. And the bathtub was a reference to New Orleans." -- bink

      by bink on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:07:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As I Noted Last Night (4.00)
      Rodoes appear to be a traditional Bush-Cheney venue for passing documents and engaging in other clandestine meetings.  For example, the Texas Air National Guard documents were provided to Burkett at the Texas rodeo before developing into Rathergate.  Now, Scooter Libby appears at the Jackson Hole rodeo in cowboy disguise to talk to Judy Miller.
    •  Why would she bring this up at all? (4.00)
      She couched it in a manner that at first glance might pass as a chance meeting, but why bring this up at all?  It's possible that she wasn't saying that she hadn't met Scooter before, just that in his country/western gear she didn't recognize him.  How many rodeo's do I need to attend to accidentally run into Scooter?  There's no way this was a chance meeting, especially during the time that the Plame affair was hitting the fan.

      So again, why bring it up at all?  

      I believe the line in the aspens letter, "turn in clusters, because their roots are connected", hints at a deeper connection, ie Iran-Chalabi, where Judy might have a lot more to fear.  That is, if Scooter and his boss go down, there's some Chalabi espionage stuff that will put everyone in a supermax for life.  Can't remember who diaried on that angle, but I think Iran-Chalabi is the root issue that connects them all.

      I think Judy's Jackson Hole comment is a return warning shot.  What did she talk about and with whom?  This get's close to Cheney.  Judith wasn't able to avoid toasting Scooter and I think this is a warning to Cheney to not let things escalate.

      With Reagan we got an actor who co-stared with a chimp. With Bush we got the chimp.

      by YetiMonk on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 11:28:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I lived in Jackson for 6 years (none)
      and my family is still there. Here's a thought. The rodeo doesn't start until 8pm. But, the rodeo grounds are always open. Maybe she had an assignation with Libby at the rodeo grounds in the afternoon where they could sit alone and devise a way to bring Wilson down. If they were both dressed in jeans and boots, they would have looked like some of the other competitors who come to the rodeo grounds early to school their horses.  

      On the other hand she may have been confused about the time, because sunset in August is around 8pm.

      Then again, she may be flat out lying about going to the rodeo and instead met Libby at Cheney's house or at another fatcat Republicans' house (they're everywhere around there) or at a hotel or a bar or.....

      •  Good points to consider (none)
        The fact is at 7:30pm on August 13th (a wednesday night) Cheney was having his fundraiser in Jackson Hole, WY...The same place that Libby and Miller met at the rodeo.

        It would be reasonable for Miller to have attended the Bush-Cheney fundraiser, where Libby would have been, so why the 'secret' meeting at a rodeo, if it was perfectly reasonable to be seen together at the fundraiser in the evening.

        Just something to mull over.

  •  Miller's protecting someone else (4.00)
    BRAVO! Thanks for putting this together!

    Reading the accounts by the NY Times and Miller, it's obvious she's protecting others besides Libby. She admits to discussions of Plame with Libby, but can't recall who first gave her the name?!

    PLUS, she only agreed to testify when Fitzgerald agreed to limit questioning to her conversations with Libby. She also refused to discuss other sources with the NYT reporters.

    So, here are some questions: Why did Fitzgerald agree not to question her about conversations with other sources about Plame? Is Fitzgerald still beholden to that agreement?  Can he call her back to talk about her other sources? Why isn't she considered a target on questions of obstruction of justice? Has any DC Gang of 500 asked Cheney whether he's ever talked to Miller about Plame?

    •  Agreed (4.00)
      And the guests on Howard Kurtz's show this morning agree with you, too.

      Consensus seems to be ...

      Judith Miller isn't telling who her other source is.  Or that she has one.  And that the other source is the big prize.

      "When you starve the beast, you starve the people. And the bathtub was a reference to New Orleans." -- bink

      by bink on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:09:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And Bob Scheiffer... (4.00)
        who is connected to the Bushies signed off Face the Nation this morning by educating his audience to parallels between the behaviour of White House staff now and that of the Nixon staff during Watergate. He said this could get really big. Now that may have been an attempt to pump up viewership over the next month or Bob knows what is coming.
        •  Interesting comment (none)
          from an interesting source.

          Isn't Scheiffer the one who's an old golfing buddy of GeeDub's? Or am I mixing him up with another talking hairdo?

          Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war. -- Donald Rumsfeld

          by Mnemosyne on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 10:04:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Scheiffer's brother.. (none)
            is current Ambassador to Australia, I think, and has been a Bush family business partner over the years.

            Scheiffer is the one who moderated the "faith-based" debate between Kerry and Bush. He gave Bush about three softball questions so he could pour out his coded "culture of life" answers to the fundie crowd.

      •  This 2nd Source's Identity (none)
        intrigues me, too, just like everyone else.  My gut feeling is that it's not a WH person, but probably someone in the CIA or the hapless Man on the Street cited below.

        I don't think it's Rove.  But, seeming to contradict myself, I understand that it could be Cheney.  If it's Rove, then he's obfuscating because he's testified that he had told Time reporter Matthew Cooper that Wilson's wife worked in the CIA, supposedly w/o mentioning her name.

        There exists a plausible possibility that reporters such as Matthews, Miller, and Novak had second and third sources to "trick" into confirming someone's identity, like in the mysterious occurrance as described here:

        Lawyers have confirmed that Novak discussed Plame with White House senior adviser Karl Rove four or more days before the column identifying her ran. But the identity of another "administration" source cited in the column is still unknown. Rove's attorney has said Rove did not identify Plame to Novak.

        In a strange twist in the investigation, the grand jury -- acting on a tip from Wilson -- has questioned a person who approached Novak on Pennsylvania Avenue on July 8, 2003, six days before his column appeared in The Post and other publications, Wilson said in an interview. The person, whom Wilson declined to identify to The Post, asked Novak about the "yellow cake" uranium matter and then about Wilson, Wilson said. He first revealed that conversation in a book he wrote last year. In the book, he said that he tried to reach Novak on July 8, and that they finally connected on July 10. In that conversation, Wilson said that he did not confirm his wife worked for the CIA but that Novak told him he had obtained the information from a "CIA source."(emphasis added)

        Novak told the person that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA as a specialist in weapons of mass destruction and had arranged her husband's trip to Niger, Wilson said. Unknown to Novak, the person was a friend of Wilson and reported the conversation to him, Wilson said.

        from WaPo.

        And with that, you can imagine the following conversation:

        Cagey Novak:  "That Wilson guy who's trying to dicredit the nuclear WMDs being in Iraq.  His wife's a WMD specialist in the CIA.  Didja know she sent him to Niger?  Talk about a set-up of the WH!"

        Man of the Street:  "Are you talking about Valerie Plame Wilson?  I've known Joe for some time but it never occurred to me that his wife is CIA."

        Miller could have done a similar thing.  And then there's no case.  Not a happy thought.

        They burn our children in their wars and grow rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

        by Limelite on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 01:50:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Why Did Fitzgerald Agree? (none)
      Probably because it would have been difficult for him to show Judge Hogan that he had exhausted all other means of obtaining the information that Judy Miller might provide from sources other than Rove and Libby.  That is a prerequisite of being able to subpoena a journalist as a witness before a grand jury.
  •  Do you know some in (4.00)
    the bloviated Washington Press are spinning this?

    That classified info is no big deal. It gets leaked all the time. So what's the problem. Bill Kristol of neo-con fame is whining that conservatives are being "criminalized" for routine political procedures.

    Un-friggin believable.

    Hello people. We are talking about

    National Fucking Security

    remember the issue that Georgie boy was supposed to be so strong on.

    This really does go as Cheney would say

    beyond the pale!

    inspire change...don't back down

    by missliberties on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:03:39 AM PDT

    •  Just as long... (4.00)
      ...as Fitz doesn't feel that way! Whatever happened to the rule of law?? How many friggin' times did we have to hear about the rule of law in 1998 during Big Dawg's Troubles? It was endless. Kagro's diary about their legal wavering is great on this point.
    •  Kristol v. Bush (4.00)
      George Bush in 2001:

      I want Congress to hear loud and clear, it is unacceptable behavior to leak classified information when we have troops at risk.

      If you receive a briefing of classified information, you have a responsibility . . .  It is a serious matter, very serious, that people in positions of responsibility understand that they have a responsibility to people who are being put in harm's way.
      •  The Frame is National Security (none)
        that is what the focus is.

        The CIA brought the case because they were fucking pissed.
        They tried to tell the White House what was up, and the White House completely ignored them, and then  blamed the whole 9/11 on the  CIA.

        Bush is a Hack!

        inspire change...don't back down

        by missliberties on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:26:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, that's just politics (none)
        It's not like he MEANS it or anything.

        But it isn't a lie either, because Bush would never lie to the American People.

        Er, uh.  So did you see him talking to the troops the other day?  They sure were enthusiastic!

        "Mr Pres, what's your opinion on Roe vs Wade?" "I don't care how they get out of New Orleans!"

        by Leggy Starlitz on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:36:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The perfect response, (none)
      for the words national security immediately call to mind the bogus reasons for our being in Iraq in the first place--national security. The phrase destroys any pretense that this is all political.

      Let's all remember to use the this phrase in every LTE, and in any discussion of the investigation, for it is the simple truth, for one thing, and for another, nothing says it better, or makes it clearer. It brooks no argument.

      The lady was CIA.  Her specialty was weapons of mass destruction. Her entire focus, her entire reason for being was to protect the national security of these United states, and these clowns are playing games with this?

      •  Is the media getting braver? (none)
         I don't believe so, when they don't even bring up this National Security issue. The only person I have heard mention it in MSM is Paul Begala and his response was poo poohed!

          This to me again makes the case that the media is complicit.
        I pray for indictment. Yes I do.

          And if it comes, then how will the media react to their lack of focus on the real question.

        inspire change...don't back down

        by missliberties on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 11:55:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It was discussed briefly on (none)
          Matthews "Hardball" Tuesday, 10/12 show:
          ISIKOFF: How they learned about Wilson`s wives identity, we do know there was this classified state department report that was circulated in that time period and that the paragraph that had the information about Wilson`s wife at the agency was marked not just secret but N.F., no foreign.

          So, that it was so sensitive that it could not be disclosed, it would be harmful to national security, if it was...

          WARREN: That could be the case...

          ISIKOFF: ...and I think if they can prove it, and we don`t know this, if they can prove that was the source of knowledge, then that can make a serious matter.

          MITCHELL: And we do know...

          MATTHEWS: I know one person won`t like this kind of business, that`s President Bush senior, the first President Bush would be stunned to hear that anybody in the White House today was involved in outing an agent. He was once head of the CIA.

          Go ahead, Andrea, last thought.

          MITCHELL: We also know that, that paragraph, that document was circulated on Air Force One as the president was flying to Africa, that Ari Fletcher saw it, Colin Powell testified to that. And that could be one of the key facts in this.
          •  Yes I saw that. (none)
            Matthews does play hardball, although I don't agree with his politics, he is at least a realist. And he has been covering this fairly seriously.

            What struck me most, was Mitchell (that's the blond right) had a look of fear about her. She was trying to pan off that Wilson's claims of why he went to Niger were purely partisan. Saying Dicky knew nothing of the investigation.

            But I recall Wilson saying that it was finally out of pure frustration that he wrote his article in the papers. He has showed the stuff to many and was dismissed.

            And what about the  Phoney Document (10years old) used to falsly fortify Bush's case. For all the Dan Rather haters, why are they not trashing the use of the Phony Document. That is to me a great big piece of the evidence.

            inspire change...don't back down

            by missliberties on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 12:54:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  A little OT from Wyoming and Cheney (4.00)
    Do we know who Novak's sources were?  I think I'm getting that we still don't know, but obviously Fitzgerald does.
    •  Time will report Fitz knows one of Novak's (4.00)
      sources and it is not someone from the WH.

      Raw Story http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Rove_told_facing_perjury_charge_Will_1016.html] has an advance on Time Magazine, which will report that if indicted, the plan is for both Rove and Libby will either resign or go on unpaid leave.

      But the last line of the article got my attention:

      These strategies are being shaped absent any real knowledge of what Fitzgerald might do before the grand jury's dissolution on Oct. 28. "If he played his cards any closer to the vest they'd be in his underwear," says a lawyer who's a friend of the White House. But Fitzgerald's intentions aren't the only mystery. Another character in the drama remains unnamed: the original source for columnist Robert Novak, who wrote the first piece naming Plame. Fitzgerald, says a lawyer in the case, "knows who it is--and it's not someone at the White House," TIME reports.

      The published material we've seen so far has focused on Libby and Rove.  This is the first confirmation that I've seen that Fitz knows who Novak talked to.  

      •  Hmmmm... (4.00)
        Curious.

        My first thought obviously was, "Who could that be? Bolton? Matalin? Someone else?"

        Then I thought of leaks from lawyers in this case. Could it be a leak that was planted to divert attention from a higher up in the White House?

        I fully believe they were ALL in on it. Bush included.

        Canadians care too...

        by jbalazs on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:10:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah. . . (none)
          That sounds like spin from the Rove et al. We'll see. In addition, it may not be relevant, since Miller has already given up Libby for revealing classified information, perjury and possibly subornation of perjury and conspiracy, and Rove's pretty clearly going down for lying to the FBI and probably pejury too, at the very least.
        •  Well neither of them are at the WH anymore (4.00)
          And Matalin left so quickly. What was that all about?

          Barn Babe Parking Only... All others will be towed....

          by BarnBabe on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:25:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Bolton seems logical (none)
          being Deputy Undersecretary for Arms Control at State.  Perhaps that's why Voinovich was such a dick to him during the confirmation hearings....

          "George W. did cocaine as recently as 1992, when he snorted lines off of Rush Limbaugh's tits at Camp David" - The Onion.

          by calipygian on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:36:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  If it's not someone at the White House (4.00)
        • Someone at the Pentagon (Wolfie?)

        • Someone at the CIA or FBI who knew about Plame

        • Someone at the State Department

        HurricaneHousing.org -- Donate Housing -- Find Shelter

        by socal on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:28:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not someone at the WH (none)
        George Tenet?  Douglas Feith?  Paul Wolfowitz?  Tenet was at CIA, Feith and Wolf at DoD...

        "George W. did cocaine as recently as 1992, when he snorted lines off of Rush Limbaugh's tits at Camp David" - The Onion.

        by calipygian on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:33:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps it was one of those fellows (none)
        in receipt of the Medal of Freedom, the fellow who sat next to his heir at the Powell UN presentation.
      •  well, technically (4.00)
        Matalin isn't at the White House. In fact, she left in December, 2002. I've got a hunch that Novak stormed off the set of Inside Politics because Carville was needling him for giving up his wife to Fitzgerald. Now, if only Matalin herself has flipped. She's tied directly to both Libby & Cheney.

        But having said that, i have to think that Carville's later comments about it do tend to go back to the Who's Who theory:

        Bob's got a lot going on in his life, and that book was sitting on the desk like a barf bag, just waiting...

        I hope i'm right, though.

        No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. – Winston Churchill

        by subtropolis on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:51:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I think I've identified the conference at Aspen. (4.00)
    I believe it would be this one: In Search of An American Grand Strategy for the Middle East (August 2003):

    The Aspen Strategy Group summer workshop in Aspen, Colorado brought together ASG members, regional experts, and several administration officials to discuss the contours and complications of American grand strategy in the Middle East.  The group tackled reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Arab-Israeli conflict, region-wide economic modernization, democratization and security, while examining the necessity for a generational commitment to the region.   The papers commissioned for the session have been released in a monograph along with a synopsis of the discussion written by ASG director, Kurt Campbell.

  •  Please 'Splain It to Me (4.00)
    because I am having a hard time reconciling these data points:

    CIA leak investigation = criminalizing politics as usual

    Monicagate = standing up for moral values in the Oval Office, not criminalizing blow jobs

    Harriet Miers = supports Texas anti-sodomy criminal statute

    Harriet Miers = supports "full" civil rights for people who could be jailed under Texas anti-sodomy statute

    Cronyism is bad = White House entitled to reveal that Wilson trip to Niger was the result of cronyism

    Cronyism is good = W knows Harriet Miers will be exceptional SCt justice because he knows her so well

    Mission accomplished = we will never leave.

    "Our enemy is innovative and resourceful and so are we. Our enemy never stops thinking of new ways to harm us and our country, and neither do we." G.W. Bush

    by litigatormom on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:21:36 AM PDT

    •  you forgot some (4.00)
      war = peace
      freedom = slavery
      ketchup = vegetable

      "Mr Pres, what's your opinion on Roe vs Wade?" "I don't care how they get out of New Orleans!"

      by Leggy Starlitz on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:42:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  War = Peace (none)
        War = Peace.  Yes.  Fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

        But who is the "them."  I think the first "them" is terrorists, but the second "them" = Democrats. Fight the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight the Democrats over here.

        And it worked, for a long time.  By instigating a war in Iraq (instead of slogging through the "hard work" of actually capturing OBL and dismantling Al Qaeda), Bush effectively bought himself two years of immunity from criticism.  Just long enough to get himself re-elected.

        "Our enemy is innovative and resourceful and so are we. Our enemy never stops thinking of new ways to harm us and our country, and neither do we." G.W. Bush

        by litigatormom on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 10:26:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Gad (none)
    that bit about the aspens turning in clusters because their roots connect them - how cheesy is that.  It's obviously code just because of the cheesiness - it reads like code in some cold war thriller/spy novel.  

    I knew these scumbags loved to romanticize themselves and their grand mission but as my husband would say, what a bunch of wankers.

    "Virginia Woolf's idea of a room of one's own has never been the place for middle- and working-class women. We work with interruptions." - Ananya Chatterjea

    by sarac on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:33:41 AM PDT

    •  It Is Not Complicated to De-Code (none)
      The important message from Scooter to Judy is:  All the Aspens are turning together because their roots are tied.

      Who are the Aspens?  

      Dick and Scooter.  (Join us Judy we are turning.)

      Dick and Scooter are tied at the roots that go back a long, long time.  

      Message:  Judy, Dick and I are turning against Bush and Rove.  You need to join us and to do that, you need to protect us when you testify and you need to dump all the blame on Rove.  With Rove out of the way, we can take Bush down and when we do, we can get busy about the rest of our plan, including doing the deal on Iran.  To reward you for your loyalty we will give you the inside track so you can report it, just like you did the Iraq story.  

  •  Is it just me, or (4.00)
    is Judy dropping all kinds of subtle little hints, to lead Fitz in the right direction, but doing so carefully enough to provide "plausible deniability" for herself, as defense against the wrath of her neocon cabal?

    I mean, Judy definitely didn't have to say anything about Jackson Hole, now did she?  But she did, didn't she?

    If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up... - Hannah and Her Sisters

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:38:26 AM PDT

    •  I agree (4.00)
      It seems like something's driven a wedge between Libby and Miller - like maybe 3 months of unnecessary incarceration?  She seems to be playing her own game.  She's got incentive - if Cheney gets indicted and she gets off slimed but scot-free she gets to write the book (literally) about the biggest scandal of our lives, with her spun as the heroine and lots of juicy tidbits manipulated to back her up.  
    •  yes (4.00)
      That's the crux of this diary from last night.

      There are two extremely provocative questions raised by Miller's Jackson Hole anecdote:

      First, as we're discussing, does it suggest Cheney as a possible source?

      And second, and just as important, is WHY does Miller choose to drop this clue in plain sight? The story is there for a reason. Is she sending a message to Cheney? To Fitzgerald?

      •  thanks! (none)
        I missed your diary last night (my eyes were bleeding from reading all the other diaries).

        I'll read it now.

        If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up... - Hannah and Her Sisters

        by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:52:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  "The Last Time I Saw Libby................. (none)

      our hearts were young and gay".   After reading both articles last night and a gazillion comments speculating on their meaning,I'm lost.  Will some kind soul take me back to the beginning?  Since Judy never wrote about Plame, what led Fitz to her?  Does anyone know who dropped a dime on Judy?

      "He that sees but does not bear witness, be accursed" Book of Jubilees

      by Lying eyes on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 11:31:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Rove would never do something this heinous (4.00)
    without approval from higher-ups.  He's a powerful and smart advisor but this is way too big.  We know that, and Fitzgerald knows that.  Between general principles, Cheney's connections in the CIA, the fact that Libby seems the core of the actual leak, and this amazing co-vacation with Cheney and Miller in the same smallish resort area, Cheney was certainly involved.  The issue is whether Fitzgerald can prove that.  I wonder if there are any phone company records?  My bet is that Cheney told Miller to meet up with Libby because "he has something important to tell you".
  •  Anybody do a search (none)
    on rodeos in Jackson Hole to see if there was one at that time?  Are there even rodeos in Jackson Hole at all since the place is pretty much a blood-blood locale now, isn't it?  Plus, what the hell is Judy "the neo-con whore*" Miller doing at a rodeo...just doesn't seem her circuit.

    *Before anyone wants to jump on my case for that reference, do some background on her and you'll see I mean it in a literal sense.

  •  Over at Firedoglake. . . (4.00)
    One of the commenters suggested that there may be some kind of confidentiality agreement between Judy and Fitzgerald, and she's not at liberty to disclose all the details of her testimony. This seems fairly plausible to me, since there seems to be a good deal missing from this account. Fitzgerald's no dummy, and there surely would have been some follow-up or context around the revelation of Judy's little jaunt to Jackson Hole.
  •  I thought the same (none)
    when I saw "Jackson Hole"

    Judy's story is now so lame, I assume she's still protecting someone

    Well-behaved women rarely make history - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

    by jaysea on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 08:57:49 AM PDT

    •  Not just lame (none)
      She specifically said that she would not testify unless Fitzgerald limited his questions to Libby.

      She couldn't convey that she is protecting either herself or a second source more clearly unless she paid for an airplane to tow a banner saying, "Guess who I'm covering for!  Buy the book and see."

      •  This seems so *wrong* to me (none)
        We all know that Fitzgerald is a top-notch prosecutor.  Why in the world would he agree to 'Libby Only' conversations if he had any inkling that Judith just might have another source?

        Even I wouldn't agree to that - so it makes no sense to me.  Did I miss something along the way?

        •  was the agreement voided (none)
          by the presence of the notebook with earlier meeting?  Is it clear where the Valerie Flame note was made?

          There are holes to drive a Hummer through in Judy's story and there is no way Fitz left them alone.

          •  The agreeement. . . (none)
            could have been made after the notebook was "discovered" (and because Judy got tripped up in her first go, so it may have been a plea deal. Her account in the Times may be incomplete because she's bound to silence by the agreement with Fitzgerald (as opposed to the possibility of contempt) and could only disclose so much. Speculation on my part, but it might explain some of the holes in her story.
            •  a question about the agreement (none)
              will that agreement be null and void if Fitz convenes another GJ? Maybe he indicts Rove and Libby, convenes another GJ, and strings Judy along for a bit while digging deeper and going after the big fish? I don't know how all this GJ stuff works, so I'm asking. Anybody know if this is a possibility?

              "People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

              by rioduran on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 06:28:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  My feeling is that Fitz has known for a long time (4.00)
          who the leakers were.  Rove and Libby were claiming they heard it from reporters; Fitz knew it wasn't true and needed to have all the reporters on the record as having not IDd Plame.  

          I think he may have Cheney by virtue of records of Cheney being at WHIG meetings where Wilson was discussed.  If Fitz got one of the WHIG members to talk, he's got Cheney on conspiracy.  He may want to know how widely known the conspiracy was.  

          What I find interesting is that Miller included the Cheney part in her article.  Why would she do that?  

          •  This makes sense, (none)
            and the fact that Miller's notes have Plame/Wilson's name wrong in multiple places and ways buttresses the argument that she didn't know who she was before being told. Even if Fitzgerald couldn't demonstrate who told Miller, at least he has her evidence that she wasn't the source.
  •  Turning means... turning? (none)
    Has anyone suggested this?  I haven't read every single diary or comment about the aspens thing.

    I'm just thinking it might be as simple as, aspens all turning together means, there are a group of us who are all turning, i.e. flipping, together, against someone else involved.  And it's an invitation for her to join the group and get out of jail.

    Seems so simple, surely some other Kossack has thought of it also?

    •  Let's assume you're right... (none)
      Then the big question is why? Why would they all agree to fall on the sword? They just aren't the types to do that unless they're afraid of something bigger being exposed.

      I put a comment below related to what that "bigger thing" could possibly be...

      Canadians care too...

      by jbalazs on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:29:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  By falling on their swords (none)
        they might still continue the original cover-up.  They outed Plame, if you recall, to send a message to CIA analysts who were leaking the fact Bushco was manipulating the intelligence on WMD's.

        See my diary from last evening:  
        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/15/215650/24

        "My job is to protect the American people." George W. Bush. Did he?

        by PAprogressive on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 10:09:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  In return for light or no charges/sentences (none)
        I read somewhere that Fitz's MO is to start with the little fish and work his way up to the big fish... turning people as he goes.  The inducement for them to finger their superiors is the promise of legal mercy -- same as a plea bargain -- if you inform on the next guy up, we'll let you off.

        So... suppose Libby & Cheney have decided to sell Bush and Rove up the river?  Or Libby & Rove are doing it to Cheney and Bush?  Or everyone's turning on Bush?  (Which, if he senses it coming, might explain his choice of Harriet Miers.)  Libby would have been telling Judy, "You're safe revealing what you know" or at least part of it.

        A thought.  I don't think Judy's coming clean, though, for all she's incriminated Libby; I think she's full of shit about a lot of things.

        •  That's how I understand it as well (none)
          I think it means that Cheney/Libby/Rove turn against Bush, whereby Rove waits til he "can" resign to defend himself openly and in doing so fight against Bush. Cheney likes to have "the job" and Libby needs to save his butt.

          It all seems to fit into the whole picture of the Republican Party disintegrating and splitting with Bush, each group for different reasons.

          The conservative Christians fight Bush, because they feel betrayed with the Miers nomination and in their ideological beliefs. Bush must be very desperate and in need of Miers to have risked the conservative Christian's support for that nomination.

          The Cheney administrations fights Bush, because they "feel disgusted" with Bush's incompetence and have decided to not protect him anymore. Cheney still wants to be President. (May be Rove already prepares himself to become Cheney's future friend and adviser, so it is true for Rove as well - I think he just breaks with the President Bush to save himself and get even.)

          Rumsfeld might be delighted to have others bring down the Bush administration, because it distract from his own failures in Iraq. They could leave the Iraq mess behind for the Democrats to clean it up. That's always the easiest way out.

          The people like Chuck Hagel want to split from the Bush administration, because they want to save the Republican Party's reputation for the future and have it cleaned from the inside out, the only way to regain respect.

          So, yes, I see a lot of Aspens turn all over, in clusters, even though each one for its own petty reason.

    •  Turning against Rove? Or (none)
      does it refer to the conference itself? The Aspens or the people who were at the conference. About the middle east? Naw,too easy. I agree it is turning on someone. Maybe even Bush. Cheney could finally just want the position now. He could not get elected but he could become President by default. I hope we do not have to wait until years later when Judy has Alzheimers and forgets that she could not remember who her souce was back in 2005. She needs a Deep Throat name too. Yeah, Closed Throat, Choked Throat, Hubris Throat, Used Throat or just plain Idiot Throat.

      Barn Babe Parking Only... All others will be towed....

      by BarnBabe on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:41:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  how is what might or might not have transpired (none)
    between Miller Libby Cheney in first half of August 2003 of critical importance to CIA agent outing case?

    Was not the cat out of the bag by that point?

    The agent's identity had already became public knowledge a month earlier, so whatever Miller Libby Cheney might have said in Jackson concerning Plame,  they would have the out that they had just read the info from Novak's piece.

  •  A problem I have.... (none)
    Miller obviously held the newly found notebook back in the event she needed to use it. Her very own insurance policy. I mean, come on, she didn't forget about those notes.

    But what event would cause her to bring those notes out? Could Libby have agreed to go down for this to protect a bigger, more damaging story? And who would have relayed that plan to Miller? Who would have told her it was now okay to out Libby? Take one for the team. The only caveat is that her testimony HAS to only cover her conversations with Libby. Any mention of "the other source" is off limits. She agreed.

    So then was it Bolton who gave her the word when he went to visit? If so, then what on earth could be bigger than sending Libby down the river that would include Bolton in the mix?

    Could Chalabi have told her Plame's name? If so, giving Chalabi access to classified information is clearly wrong. Also, wouldn't knowingly passing classified information to Chalabi constitute high treason?

    And if you're in the White House, which is worse? Perjury/Obstruction of justice or treason? I know if I were Cheney or Bush and knew the consequences of one or the other, I'd be convincing Libby and Rove to take the fall. That's a better scenario than something as expolsive as treason coming to light.

    Canadians care too...

    by jbalazs on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 09:23:50 AM PDT

    •  This reminds me of a LARC (none)
      Where factions are trying to find the least damaging story and the most expendable fall guys.  The trick, of course, is to make sure that everyone sticks to the script and the plan.  As long as the strategy seems to be working, people will play their assigned roles.  But should something go awry - a Congressional investigation, a second grand jury empanelled or someone who feels reckless and has an axe to grind - and the whole deal could fall through.

      It is so hard to say what is going on!  I think we are in for some really scripted responses to whatever Fitzgerald finally decides.  I think it will be tough to shake these guys off their prepared  speeches.

      I'm not sure where it goes from there.  Fitzgerald is restricted in what he can do unless he gets some amazing evidence to go to town with.  Who do we put pressure on?  The Media? Congress?  

  •  Which rodeo? ....O that rodeo! (none)
    Thanks for Google, I found out something about rodeos in jackson hole.

    Link to Jackson Hole travel website from 2003:
    http://www.lodging-jackson-hole.com/wagonwheel-events_s.html

    Scroll to the bottom under 'Ongoing Summer Events' and see:

    Jackson Hole Rodeo. Experience the true west at the Jackson Hole Rodeo! Bull riding, calf roping, and all kinds of cowboy events. 8:00 p.m. every Wednesday and Saturday, from Memorial Day to Labor Day. Sponsored by Jackson Hole Rodeo Company, 733-2805. Advanced tickets can be purchased, however, reservations are not accepted or required.

    All phone listings are area code (307) unless otherwise noted.

    Naturally the Jackson Hole Rodeo Company has a website that can be found here:
    http://www.jhrodeo.com/

    I dunno if this helps any, but it's another peice of the puzzle.

    -CW

    •  Cheney was in Jackson Hole on August 13th (none)
      From Whitehouseforsale.org, Dick Cheney was at a fundraiser in Jackson Hole on Wednesday the 13th of August:

      http://www.whitehouseforsale.org/dashforcash/page.cfm?pageid=49

      Check his travel schedule about half way down:

      August 13, 2003 - Jackson Hole, WY

      Headliner: Dick Cheney
      Special attraction: See the Vice President as he takes a break from his vacation in Jackson Hole to pick up a few checks from his friends.
      Bottom line: $300,000

      What are the chances that this fundraiser with friends involved a trip to the rodeo that evening?

      Lets do some more digging...

  •  asdf (none)
    We need a timeline
  •  Whether or not (4.00)
    Judy met Cheney in Jackson Hole, she was earlier a participant in a politically-oriented conference. She was also, ostensibly, a reporter.

    The two are mutually exclusive. She should never have been allowed to participate in such an event. Real reporters go out of their way to be politically a-political--they do not donate to candidates, they do not appear on TV shows, they do not speak at partisan events. Some of them go so far as to not register to vote.

    The fact that she was on the agenda for this Aspen meeting, and that she was not immediately reined in by the Times, indicates how bad their management structure is. And how much of a liar she is. She should have been fired long since. Keller, too.

    </rant>

    Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war. -- Donald Rumsfeld

    by Mnemosyne on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 10:23:25 AM PDT

  •  Jane Hamsher (FIREDOG LAKE) on KTLK today (none)
    Tune in to KTLK-AM1150 (or www.progressivetalkam1150.com) Sunday at noon,PCT for an hour with Jane Hamsher of firedoglake.blogspot.com.

    She's one of the 'sphere's leading lights on Plamegate and is hieing off to Oregon for 6 months next week, rhis is the last chance to hear her.

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 10:51:14 AM PDT

  •  When dear Judy was in (none)
    Jackson hole where was Cheney. Does anybody know?

    If you like incompetence, corruption and cronyism vote Republican

    by Jlukes on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 11:09:56 AM PDT

  •  Judy is dirty (none)
    She's got a deal going, it is obvious.
  •  How can it be (none)
    ... that Miller claims that she did not recognize Libby at the rode?. Hadn't they met in person before? He was wearing a hat and sunglasses, but doesn't this strike you all as implausible, too?

    "After the conference, I traveled to Jackson Hole, Wyo. At a rodeo one afternoon, a man in jeans, a cowboy hat and sunglasses approached me. He asked me how the Aspen conference had gone. I had no idea who he was.

     "Judy," he said. "It's Scooter Libby.""

  •  Mary Matalin (4.00)
    I am intrigued by the fact that Mary Matalin, a member of WHIG, is no longer working for Cheney

    http://www.matalin.info/

    Her biography online mentions that she "formerly served."

    Did she testify before Fitzgerald's Grand Jury?

    Well-behaved women rarely make history - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

    by jaysea on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 12:18:26 PM PDT

  •  Knowing the kind of "Volk" we (none)
    are dealing with here, my first response to this Miller statement was: man, this sounds ominous (straight out of some bad Sergio Leone film).

    Is it possible that Judy was threatened by Libby and Cheney, basically informed that there was a contract out on her if she didn't comply with whatever they were asking her to do? (cf. Libby's "back to life" statement).

    It could be that Judy's not as slimey at heart as we might think--maybe she just got herself in too deep and is now simply running for her life.

  •  Aspens (none)
    Be informed about the trees, themselves.

    Libby may not have known anything about aspens, but by using them as an image or a metaphor, he was invoking a certain reality.

    The quaking aspen (Populus tremuloides) was named by the eminent French botanist Andre Michaux in his 1803 Flora Boreali-Americana. The scientific name tremuloides means "like tremula," commemorating its resemblance to the European form (Populus tremula). Subtle geographic variations have led some scientists to split aspens into multiple species, while other scientists have considered assigning all aspens to a single circumboreal superspecies. Given the difficulty of determining the age of individual aspens, the possibility of a close relationship to one ancestral form must be kept in mind.

    and this

    spens call our whole concept of what we call a tree into question; only as a young seedling does the plant approximate a typical "tree" with a single trunk and simple root system. As the seedling (referred to as an ortet) grows, it sends out lateral roots that may extend over 100 feet in many directions. These roots possess an enormous potential for suckering, that is, sending up shoots much like a potato does. Suckers grow into woody stems that superficially resemble individual trees. One seedling eventually expands to as many as 47,000 genetically identical stems arising from a parent root system, and may cover over 100 acres. Suckering is the primary method of aspen propagation, as successful seedlings are extremely rare or unknown in many areas of the West.

    To wit, the neoconservatives who are running, and ruining, our government may be unified but they are also most certainly suckers!

    Populus tremuloides may presently rule but vox populus will prevail.

  •  Sounds like Judy (none)
    has more than a professional relationship going.
  •  When did Libby testify? (none)
    I recall that he appeared before the GJ three or four times.  Since Rove was "invited" back to refute the testimony of others or to clean up his original testimony, I wonder if one of Scooter's appearances was in response to a similar invitation?  And if so, who was it who said something that needed clearing up by Libby?  The timeline did not seem to indicate when any of his multiple appearances were.

    Also of interest in this timeline: Mary Matalin appeared on January 21, and January 23, apparently the FIRST witness called.  I would just bet that the mother of two small kids and the wife of James Carville would be very forthcoming in her appearances.  Could she hold the biggest clues of all in this whole thing?  If so, Sweeeeet!

  •  A shared vulnerability: Iran / Chalabi (none)
    The proverbial "connected roots" that will make all "Aspens" turn ?

    At the Aspen Institute conference Judy talked about Iran.. Which is something that she and Cheney's team have in common and that is a vulnerability to all of them: They all relied too much in Iranian spy Chalabi and because of it may have done much worse than outing Plame - revealed US secrets to a hostile foreign government agent...

    Larry Franklin will "hang" for much less: blabbing to a friendly nation.

    Blabbing to a hostile nation's spy, and inadvertently facilitating the Iran take over of Iraq's political leadership is Rosenberg material... Ethel and Julius Dick and Judy  Rosenberg ?

    Judy's desperate pleas to keep her testimony restricted to Libby make a lot more sense if she was hiding THAT...

    •  Data points for Iran code in letter (none)
      • Libby's letter mentions Judy should go back to reporting on Iran
      • WHIG, Judy, Libby and Cheney were the primary promoters of Iranian friendly Chalabi
      • At the proverbial Aspen institute conference Judy talked about Iran
      • The biggest treason / intel leak of the Bush Administration wasn't Plamegate! It was the inadvertent revelation to an Iranian double agnet (Chalabi ?) that US had cracked it's communications code.
      • Cheney et al. are itching to invade... Iran next

      And the guess:
      - What subjects could Judy have possibly talked about in Jackson Hole, Wyo. but Iran, Iraq, WMD and Plame ?

      It is obvious that they all have a shared interest in Iran. What remains to be seen is if the Iran reference in Libby's letter is to :
      A - Remind Judy of their joint cover up of a possible illegal leak to an Iranian agent - a crime much worse than Plamegate and a lot less "spinnable" by Rovian antics
      B - Plea with Judy to lie in his behalf so that they can move on to spinning their way into a new Bush war with Iran
      C - All of the above..

  •  Turning (none)
    What a peculiar choice of word to describe fall colors and leaves about to fall...

    Methinks "TURNING" is part of the code.

    Turning on Bush ? Turning against the Administration ? Turning the country towards their goals ? Turning Judy's testimony around 180 degrees ?

  •  As someone who lived through watergate (none)
    this is all seeming very familiar.

    I had originally thought that this whole affair would go the way of Iran-Contra.

    Now I am thinking otherwise.

    Piece by piece, the facade of the Bush Admin is cracking.

    Is Judy an asset or just a half-assed journalist? Remains to be seen.

    Libby's coded message is a hoot! What a maroon! Or just plain desperate.

    Remember, Watergate broke and Nixon and his cabinet ultimately went down because of some half-assed burglary and some very traceable cash.

    The GOP bag o' dirty tricks may have gotten more sinister and sophisticated over the years, but apparently they are still idiots at the core. Powerful idiots yes, but idiots nonetheless.

    It's just my .02 but if justice is truly served in this fiasco it will be in no small part to the due dilligence of bloggers like Georgia and other at Kos and the blogosphere for not letting the clues drop or the issue die.

    They outed a fucking CIA opp during a time of war, during a time of unprecedented threat to national security, all while wrapping themselves in an American flag and claiming the GOP birth right to "patriotism".

    They let the terrorists go (remember OBL and 911, anyone?), facricated the evidence for an illegal war, lied about it shamelessly, invaded, failed to find any evidence of that which they claimed to have "irrefutable proof", vicicously attacked anyone who dared question their lies or their evidence, slaughtered tens of thousands of civilians, caused the deaths of nearly 2,000 US soldiers, maimed thousands of others, and oh yeah, made BILLIONS off the scam.

    How many acts of TREASON can one administration commit before they get the justice they deserve?

    They deserve to sit in the pokey for a long, long, long time. All of them.

    "As individual fingers we can easily be broken, but all together, we make a mighty fist" Watanka Tatanka (Sitting Bull)

    by wild salmon on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 02:55:26 PM PDT

  •  Cheney and J. Miller - Aspen Strategy Group (none)
    Both Judith Miller and Dick Cheney, along with Condoleezza Rice and Paul Wolfowitz, are Emeritus Members of the Aspen Strategy Group.  It seems quite likely that they all met in 2003 using the Aspen Institute as cover for their further plots.

    "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing - after they have exhausted all other possibilities." Winston Churchill

    by LondonYank on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 03:58:30 PM PDT

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