Daily Kos

Playing Chicken with the Apocalypse

Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 12:30:25 PM PDT

Here it is, another blasted diary about the end of the world.  The end of the Democrats, and the end of Republicans.  The end of Coca-Cola, baseball, apple pie, and Chevrolet.   It's even about the
end of Canada and televised hockey, so don't start feeling too comfortable up there.  

Blood-dimmed tides?  Check.  Centers not holding?  We got 'em.  Rough beasts?  And how.

All this brought to you with no nukes, no Jesus -- meta or otherwise -- coming down in a cloud, and only the slightest dash of bird flu.

The Apocalypse?  Again?
Those happy few who've read my diaries before may note that I already did a diary called The End of Everything in which I speculated that both science and technology might be running on fumes, with little left to offer in the way of discovery or advancement.   As far as doomsday scenarios go, the one advanced there was pretty definitive.  Do we really need another gloomy, the-sky-is-falling, kiss your children goodbye diary from this "the glass is half empty, and oh by the way it's a leaky glass" pessimist guy?

Yes.  Yes, you do.  And it goes like this...

Just one little thing after another
In 1979, science historian James Burke hit PBS audiences with a jewel of a show called Connections.  The theme of Connections is just what you might expect from the title: the interconnectedness of things, including a great number of things you might not expect.  With tremendous verve, some sly British wit, and a little greasing over the details, Burke went through a series of
spirited explanations and often humorous reenactments to show how events that seemed disconnected, actually touched each other at numerous points.  How did a certain type of slate found in Iranian rivers lead to the development of the both the modern monetary system and the atomic bomb?  What could the creation of the stirrup have to do with the fact that people in the UK and US speak English?  Burke's romps through time and space showed how money, diet, science, music, personal relationships, chance meetings, greed, religion, and pure dumb luck all interacted to give us the world we live in today.  Chamberlain stumbles on Little Round Top, and "Dixie" is the national anthem.  Give Mozart a different girlfriend, and we might all be speaking Polish (and no, I'm not even going to try and extend that scenario).

At their best, Burke's extrapolations reflect the "butterfly theory" of history, showing how every stone makes new ripples in the pond.  At their worst (which means the bulk of Connections II, and Connection
III), it's still a fun sort of Six Degrees of Gottfried von Leibniz -- a scientific history trivia fest.

While the bulk of the connections illustrated in Burke's show dealt with events over large spans of time, he also discussed how individual actions could exert great effects at a distance.  For example, take the 1965 "great blackout."  One faulty old relay at a power plant near Niagra Falls caused a blackout that spread across New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and New York.  Thousands of people were trapped because of that one relay.  Airliners were rerouted, traffic hopelessly gridlocked, and hospitals plunged into darkness.  People hundreds of miles away died because of that little relay.  (Sadly, the one fun fact about the blackout, the baby boomlet that followed, appears to be a myth.)

What was true of our electrical system then was true now.  It's hugely delicate, and so enormously complicated that it often takes months of investigation to get an idea of what happened when something breaks.  We've fixed most of the issues that caused trouble in 1965, but new problems have replaced them.  The electrical grid is like an gigantic circuit board.  Some of it neatly soldered and with nice new chips, other sections are all raggedy bare wires and old flickering tubes.  My father used to complain about those huge flashlights that take 4, 5 or more D-cell batteries.  His rule was "every time you add a battery, you square the odds of the thing really working when you need it."  Our electrical grid is running on a metaphorical googolplex of D-cells.

The grid isn't the only complex system around us.  Consider what it takes to deliver fresh, potable water to a city of millions, water that often starts hundreds of miles away.  Imagine what it takes to treat it, the armies of men and women who maintain the pipes, the equally large facilities for disposing of waste water.  Other systems are just as complex, but less visible.  The corned beef behind the counter of a 33rd Street deli may have been raised in South Dakota.  It ate winter feed trucked in from California and was protected by (or tainted by, depending on your POV) antibiotics grown in a German lab.  It went to a stockyards in Kansas City, got butchered and packaged in Springfield, and spent time in a cooler outside Chicago before both truck and rail were involved in delivering it to your sandwich.  Every day, literal tons of produce, meat, bread, and fixin's pour into the city.  

Somewhere out there, there's a rusty old part, or a dead D-cell, just waiting to bring any or all of these complex architectures down.

The Finger on the House of Cards
Tipping point has replaced "the straw that broke the camel's back" in our vocabulary.  Was Hurricane Katrina the tipping point that made the American public realize it takes more than platitudes to be a leader?  Was the appointment of Miers the tipping point in cleaving Bush from his conservative base?

When New Yorker staff writer Malcolm Gladwell, wrote his book The Tipping Point in 2000, he had a little more restricted view of the term in mind.  A tipping point in Gladwell's view is not something as massive as Katrina.  It's the tiny things.  The little things that add up.  The final drop that causes a bucket to overturn.

Gladwell illustrated his ideas with examples from a 1990's syphilis epidemic in Baltimore, to the American Revolutionary War.  In this short book, he brought to bear both the terminology of marketing (Paul Revere was effective in raising colonial support before he was a social "connector" as well as an information "maven) and epidemiology.  Behind both sets of terminology is the idea that most changes -- whether it's the spread of a germ, or a technology -- occur when small groups of people change their behavior.  These changes generate little ripples that then

You've heard this idea before.  It's not too off from the idea of the old idea of a meme -- a discrete thought or idea that gets transmitted from person to person like a conceptual virus.  It also touches on the idea of "consensus reality," in which we all agree on the rules that make up the world around us.  In many ways, this conceptual world can be just as difficult to maintain, just as complex, as the technological foundations of our civilization.  These are the stories we tell ourselves, and if something contradicts one of those stories... it can cause a kind of mental blackout.  You don't have to look any further back than the aftereffects of Katrina to see that, not only was there huge physical damage and an administrative failure of epic proportions, there was also an epidemic of altered conceptions.  

These ripples of ideas can be more powerful in affecting our actions than any technological breakthrough.  Abolition was brought about as much from a shift in how people thought about slavery as it was by force of arms. So were most other social changes.  Before these changes, even the idea of change is hard to grasp.  After the change, it's difficult to conceive how anyone could have ever thought differently.

Because our world is built as much from ideas as steel, it's also vulnerable to a breakdown in those ideas.  The Rwandan genocide wasn't caused by a natural disaster (though it was influenced by events as diverse as bad weather , a drop in global coffee prices, and the murder of two presidents).  It was a disaster of thought, an epidemic of murder that took more than million lives in one horrible spring.  People were killed by their neighbors.  Students were slaughtered by teachers and teachers by students.  The social bonds, that consensus of normality, was shredded.  The same sort of break down has happened many times before.  It'll happen again.

Like cars running at high speed down a multi-lane freeway, the wonder is not that there are occasional accidents.  The wonder is that it ever works at all.

The Foot on the Accelerator
Speaking of wonder, by now you're likely wondering where I'm going with all this.  I promise you, it's not going to be all vague gloom and doom -- because I'm getting to the specifics.

Only a couple of weeks ago, Jerome a Paris published his Whiny Frog diary, complaining about the lack of attention given to energy issues.  Since then, there have been a series of good diaries from other sources (including Meteor Blades), one of Jerome's dairies has made the front page, and we've had direct feedback from a governor on energy issues in his state.  We've even started on the idea of forming a coherent "open source" energy policy.

It's quite a turn around for the subject.  In fact, considering all the things we have to think about -- all the issues, all the news, all the candidates -- is it too much?  Are energy issues bogarting the recommended list?  Does energy really deserve this much attention?  It does, and here's why.

In 2003, Richard Heinberg put out a little book with the somewhat cute title, The Party's Over.  If that title makes the book seem sort of light and fluffy, the content is anything but.

Heinberg's contention, backed by a small army of statistics, is that not only have we passed peak oil, we've passed the era of cheap energy.  For a century, the world has luxuriated in a bath of readily available hydrocarbons and has, oblivious to the damage we were causing the environment, turned that abundance into a fantastic abundance of food and goods.  We are oil addicts.

It was this wealth of cheap resources that lifted us into the Industrial Age.  Not only did it bring factories making $200 sneakers and iPod Nanos (I love mine), it brought the Green Revolution.  All but the most barren places in the world were made to produce a new abundance of crops.  Even if "a rising tide raises all boats" has been misused by politicians of all stripes, cheap energy really did buoy up world population and living standards.  In fact, the last couple of generations living in the wealthiest countries have experienced a kind of cultural hedonism unthinkable a century before.

Cheap energy has defined how we live, where we live, and who we live with.  It's made the suburbs possible.  It's scattered families over continents.  It's made it possible to transport goods around the world for less than it takes to make them in your home town.  It's also fueled a demand for more cheap energy -- and an unbreakable assumption that such energy is available.  Sure, maybe it means poking holes in the last wild places.  Maybe it's deep ocean hydrates.  Or wind.  Or solar.  Or tidal power.  We plot to put hydrogen fuel cells in our cars.  We plant corn, switchgrass, and soybeans to produce biofuels.

In all of this, we assume there's an "out."  Make the right choices, turn left at the next policy intersection, and we'll reach a happy destination.  We'll be able to keep on keepin' on, doing what we've always done, only better.  Clean, hydrogen cars will sweep into shiny solar powered cities, and we'll all have Playstation 9's hooked up to 100" OLED TVs.  

Ever see one of those cartoons where someone is trying to calculate the way to some fantastical result?  There are a thousand mathematical symbols on the left side of the chalkboard, and the desired result on the right.  In between is that magical phrase: "and then a miracle occurs."  We expect the miracle.

Only according to Heinberg, that's not going to happen.  Despite the presence of the word "party" in the title of his book, the operative word is "over."  According to his numbers, there is no miracle on the way.  Even if we make all the right decisions (and he doesn't think for a moment that we will), the world as we know it is already done for.  Industrial society stormed the planet on the back of cheap oil, and it's about to exit stage right.  High tide has already passed, and as the water starts to go down, it's going to go way down.  Fast.
Think about some of the consequences of this truly post-industrial world (some of this is from Heinberg's book, more from my own fervid extrapolation):

  • Putting the worst first: 2/3rds of everybody dies.  The complex web of fertilizer, fuel, and machinery that makes agriculture possible in many parts of the world, and delivers the bounty of the "breadbaskets" to where enough food can't be raised, falls apart.  Cue the four horsemen.  Without cheap energy, starvation, disease, and war are the inevitable results for most of the world's population.  

  • Dwindling energy resources over the coming decades will lead to resource wars in the Middle East, Asia and eventually in America and Europe. I'll go further than Heinberg: I find it extremely unlikely that nations faced with complete dissolution would not unleash a few nuclear parting shots.

  • Fuel prices become so expensive that it becomes impractical to travel long distances, either by car or plane.  In fact, it becomes impractical or impossible to even manufacture many of the things we take for granted, because the parts can't be brought together at a reasonable price.  In many ways, people's lives look, not like those of their parents, but more like those of a medieval peasant, who lives in a very small space, using products almost all of which are just as local.

  • Chaos.  Plain and simple.  Against the kind of social and technological changes that an abrupt end to cheap energy would bring, there is no social, political, or commercial institution that would survive.  Organized religion might make it, in some alternative Canticle for Leibowitz sort of way, but don't even count on that.

The technical networks that make our lives possible are complex, fragile, and utterly dependent on cheap energy.  The social networks that make our lives possible are complex, fragile, and utterly dependent on cheap energy.  Cheap energy is going to end.  Soon.

Any questions?

Is that it then?  Are we doing nothing but arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?  If Heinberg is right, then yes, we are.  Hold all the marches you want.  Elect who you want.  Take all the recreational products you can get, 'cause buddy, the future is going to suck anyway.  And if you might want to book that trip to Alaska.  The best that Heinberg is able to offer is the idea of a "managed collapse," in which he proposes that with great political courage on our part, and unprecedented international cooperation, we can achieve the same results (most people dead, the rest living in Medieval Land), but do so in a way that leaves the survivors in a softer, greener version of hell.

My message to Mr. Heinberg: that's the one thing I can promise you is not going to happen.  People and institutions will not surrender their lives or their comforts willingly, and certainly not peacefully.  If the end comes as nasty as he suggests, then we better hope that the descendants of cockroaches or squids make better use of our fossilized remains when it comes their turn in another half a billion years.

That's how important this issue is.  We either win on this one (and when I say we, I don't mean Democrats, or Americans, I mean human beings) or we die.  Messy.

We have to devote our energies to filling in that chalkboard.  As hopeless as it may seem, we have to find the miracle in the equation.  So the next time Jerome, Meteor Blades, or someone else posts a diary on energy policy, pay attention like your life depends on it.  Because it does.

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Permalink | 158 comments

  •  wow (4.00 / 7)

    to the 10th power.

    Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

    by Miss Devore on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 12:31:45 PM PDT

    •  ok (none / 0)

      I'm going to break the rules and respond to a comment and not post a new one.

      See here's the thing about hydrocarbon energy:

      It doesn't matter.

      In fact it hasn't mattered since July 16 1945.

      See thats when the first nuclear weapon was detonated.  If anyone serioussly doubts that a country will see itself disapear because they don't know what to do with nuclear waste is fooling themselves.

      So gas starts to hit $10 a gallon and your average misnformed jow will be begging for a nuclear substation in his backyard.

      The world will end not with a bang, but with a "Do'oh!"
      "America is a free speech zone."

      by Love and Death on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 06:40:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Downside being... (none / 0)

        ... that nuke plants

        a) can't produce hydrocarbons for use in the vehicles on the road today

        b) require an immense amount of hydrocarbons as energy input purely in the creation and maintenance of (heavy machinery, et al)

        c) requires uranium as feed stock which is not what you might call a 'common element', the processing of which requires a lot of energy input as well. Uranium (and its decay products) won't last forever either.

        Now if you're advocating that everyone switch over to electric cars and backhoes and so forth and that we all live in an electric world... well, it's a nice dream, but the political environment to make such a change is nonexistant aside from the tinfoily-er corners of society.

        Don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to the continued development of nuke plants at all... but to think that dropping nukes all across the planet to replace hydrocarbons is not very plausable.

        --
        Plot your political compass scores at KosCompass

        by Hatamoto on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 10:10:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  to the 100th :-) (none / 0)

      In case anyone's wondering, a googol is 1.0 × 10100, or ten to the one hundredth power (a 1 with 100 zeroes behind it). It was invented by the 9 year-old nephew of mathmetician Ed Kassner.

      A googolplex is that same (very large) number to the hundredth power (thus, a 1 with a googol zeroes behind it). It's a very, very large number.

      "They're telling us something we don't understand"
      General Charles de Gaulle, Mai '68

      by subtropolis on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 10:03:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Amen, brother (4.00 / 5)

    Very well put.

    Thanks.

    The IPCC predicts average global temperatures to rise enough by 2050 to put 20-30% of all species at risk for extinction.

    by Plan9 on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 12:32:04 PM PDT

  •  ***Gulp*** (4.00 / 6)

    Recommended.

    Just a side note, E.M. Forester's themes always centered around the impact and importance of "connections."

    I have to re-read this and think about itwhile I'm cleaning the house today.

  •  Somebody's been reading Kuntsler's (4.00 / 5)

    I hope Hillary has a long and productive career as junior Senator from New York.

    by calipygian on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 12:36:47 PM PDT

    •  Actually, I haven't (4.00 / 34)

      But I'll add it to the list.

      Halfway through writing this, I got a charley horse in my leg so bad that it made my foot twist around, my knee come up to my chin, and left me screaming for ten solid minutes.  Then I threw up.  An hour later, it still feels like someone worked me over with a baseball bat.

      Somehow, I fear this experience might have...tinted my writing.

      I have more hope for the miracle than the above might indicate.

      •  Suggestion (none / 0)

        If you want a miracle shouldn't you post this on Redstate?
        •  I would, only... (3.92 / 13)

          I can't.  I made the mistake of replying to a "Democrats are using Katrina for political gain, how horrible" message with a suggestion that Republicans had been running on 9/11 for the last four years.

          Lost my posting priviledges quicker than you can say "it's all Clinton's fault."

          Feel free to copy paste if you want.

          •  Just snarking (4.00 / 11)

            it would be a waste of time.  Although they are the God people so they should get on the stick.

            I think we lost out chance at cheap energy when we stopped the ongoing efforts in the 80's.  To get cheap energy you need cheap investment to build the alternates which means you need cheap energy.  We had a couple of decades of cheap oil and we pissed it away, waiting for the magic of the market.

            •  Dead on! (4.00 / 5)

              I think we lost out chance at cheap energy when we stopped the ongoing efforts in the 80's.

              Our worst mistake of the last half-century, IMO.  Thank you very much, Mr. Reagan.

              Newspapers are unable, seemingly, to discriminate between a bicycle accident and the collapse of civilization. -- George Bernard Shaw

              by dsteffen on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:59:37 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Reagan Was the Worst Mistake (4.00 / 8)

                in the history of free societies. Worst==most damaging.

                We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

                by Gooserock on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 04:01:42 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Lost opportunities (none / 0)

                  A perverse humanity, sub-species hominus americanus, probably would have found a way to blow this necessary transition anyway, but his era of reaction and neglect sealed the fate of -- ?? -- billions...

                  If a thousand men were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State...

                  by HenryDavid on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 09:56:25 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  I would if I could (none / 1)

            but one day the issue of abortion came up and I was history.

            I do not know what weapons World War III will be fought with. World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -- Albert Einstein

            by elveta on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:46:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  That cartoon (none / 1)

          is my very favorite.  How wonderful that someone else uses it for an example!  (My attempts have been met with rather spotty reception.)

          Men do less than they ought, unless they do all that they can.--Thomas Carlyle

          by gazingoffsouthward on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:36:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Sounds like a metaphor for societal collapse (none / 1)

        Unfortunately, when society collapses the pain doesn't go away and you don't stop throwing up.

        - "You're Hells Angels, then? What chapter are you from?"
        - REVELATIONS, CHAPTER SIX.

        by Hoya90 on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:29:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Kunstler useful, though overwrought (none / 0)

        Kunstler's done us all a service by flogging this idea in its most overwrought, hyperbolic form, and there are certainly holes in his arguments, but his central obervation holds (here in his comments at last week's PetroCollapse conference in NYC, but repeated in various forms throughhout his recent work):


         The Las Vegas-i-zation of the American mind is a pernicious idea in itself, but it is compounded by another mental problem, which I call the Jiminy Cricket syndrome. Jiminy Cricket was Pinocchio's little sidekick in the Walt Disney Cartoon feature. The idea is that when you wish upon a star, your dreams come true. It's a nice sentiment for children, perhaps, but not really suited to adults who have to live in a reality-based community, especially in difficult times.

        The idea - that when you wish upon a star, your dreams come true - obviously comes from the immersive environment of advertising and the movies, which is to say, an immersive environment of make-believe, of pretend. Trouble is, the world-wide energy crisis is not make-believe, and we can't pretend our way through it, and those of us who are adults cannot afford to think like children, no matter how comforting it is.

        Combine when you wish upon a star, your dreams come true with the belief that it is possible to get something for nothing, and the psychology of previous investment and you get a powerful recipe for mass delusional thinking.
        As our society comes under increasing stress, we're liable to see increased delusional thinking, as worried people retreat further into make-believe and pretend.

        And the public wants what the public gets
        But I don't get what this society wants

        by drmls on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 08:01:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Or reading this: (none / 0)

      Life After the Oil Crash by David Savinar. This guy answers all the questions.

      "George W. Bush has helped those who have most, hurt those who have least and ignored everyone in between". General Wesley Clark

      by KristyZ on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:09:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Credit card living (4.00 / 15)

    When people lived on farms, they understood that you had to plan ahead and include crop failure, livestock disease, drought, blizzards, etc. in your plans.  If they didn't understand that, they did not survive as farmers.

    Almost no one lives on farms any more in the US, and most of the politicians in DC are from urban, not rural areas.

    Most of the American public lives on credit cards.  The last time I noticed, the average household had something like $20,000 in credit card debt.  Credit cards keep you from being in the real world.  You don't feel the pain until the repo man shows up.  That postponement can permit a long binge.

    We keep pushing forward the cost of our gigantic energy/goods binge.  And, as you point out, nobody wants to give up their comfortable lifestyle.

    The politicians who win are the ones who do not disturb the dream but instead reinforce it.  Pie in the sky energy schemes, an avoidance of unpleasant truths.

    The IPCC predicts average global temperatures to rise enough by 2050 to put 20-30% of all species at risk for extinction.

    by Plan9 on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 12:55:26 PM PDT

    •  Like you said, push the payment forward (4.00 / 4)

      Credit card living is a natural consequence of the cheap energy binge. As the economic system began to learn that cheap energy allowed you to bring together components from great distances, it also learned to move capital over great distances.

      Easy credit is a great way to extend the system by encouraging lots of purchases. In the developing world we call them IMF loans. Here in the US, we call them credit cards and interest only real estate loans.

      The internet bubble took it a step further by allowing companies to use the IPO process to bypass the whole loan process entirely.

      - "You're Hells Angels, then? What chapter are you from?"
      - REVELATIONS, CHAPTER SIX.

      by Hoya90 on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:24:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So, when will the apocalypse occur? (4.00 / 5)

    We want to be sure our popcorn's fresh, you know.
    •  I'm going for a Friday afternoon (4.00 / 15)

      The administration always tries to shovel the bad news in late on Friday in hopes that people won't notice over the weekend.  Why should the end of the world be any different?
    •  4 words (4.00 / 4)

      Cubs in post-season

      Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

      by Miss Devore on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:41:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Better stock up on that popcorn (none / 0)

      Bush has lowered the food emergency reserves from weeks of food for every man, woman and child in the US to about 2 or 3 days. 15 pounds, mostly wheat flour--no popcorn either.
    •  This apocalypse? Looks like never. (4.00 / 3)

      This diary joins others (and many books) in proposing that industrial societies are so fragile expensive, scarce oil will cause them to collapse, maybe all the long, long, way back to medieval conditions. History says otherwise.

      In WWII, the Allies made a huge effort to smash a technological society -- they did their best to bomb Nazi Germany into oblivion. Easy, right? The Allies bombed the power plants and cut off their oil, so the Nazi war machine just collapsed, right? Well, no. Consider what happened when most of the oil was cut off:

      ...the coal to oil process, known as the Fischer-Tropsch process....was a concept pioneered in Nazi Germany when imports of petroleum were restricted due to war and Germany found a method to extract oil from coal. It was known as Ersatz ("substitute" in German), and accounted for nearly half the total oil used in WWII by Germany.
      Wikipedia: Petroleum
      It seems that we should worry more about ever-increasing carbon emissions than about petroleum shortages triggering a collapse of civilization.

      As for the supposed fragility of industrial societies, let's look at that bombing again:

      ...the strategic bombing survey conducted by the United States after World War II determined that German industrial production in aircraft, steel, armor, and other sectors had risen hugely during the war despite strategic bombing.
      Wikipedia: Strategic bombing during World War II

      They had to synthesize half their oil from coal, the Allies were bombing their industrial infrastructure, and production increased.

      The evidence says that the idea that society will collapse if petroleum becomes scarce is simply wrong. The experiment has already been tried and it didn't work, even with bombing to help.
      The fantasy of inevitable collapse doesn't seem reality based. And (putting on a partisan hat) it is a really ugly message to carry to the U.S. electorate. Can we give it a rest now? (Answer: No, of course not -- the dark fantasy machine will roll on.)
      -----------------------

      A reply to a big, juicy lie: "If that were true, McCain would have said it himself, but he won't because it's nothing but a lie." Not much to argue about.

      by technopolitical on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 06:49:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I do agree (4.00 / 3)

        that our society faces some very dire and potentially catastrophic conclusions to our current way of living, I find this diary and the articles I have read on the matter seem to fail to appreciate the malleability of humans. Yes, we have had moments like Rwanda, but we have also had moments, over the past few thousand years where we adapt and change.  Our species would not exist today without the ability to change and adapt.

        That's not to say that changes will not be painful, but change is possible. That is not a "then a miracle happens" statement but rather an observation of human history. Within the technology we have at hand we can adapt to some dramatic changes. Arable land exists locally in many areas but can't be farmed economically at today's energy prices. Cheap fuel encourages a concentration of much larger farms that can ship world wide. Change the fuel cost substantially and many now abandoned farms become profitable again. Some communities will become unsustainable but others will learn to tap into the resources they had neglected. Communities organized along railroad routes will become more economically viable as a centralized transportation network is more economically sustainable. A diesel locomotive running on bio-fuel will still be able to bring food into the cities.  Our modern homes are incredibly wasteful but as energy prices climb we will adapt. We will learn to use less. Suddenly the value structure of LED's for lighting and solar panels for electrical generation changes. The same technology and thought process being used now to make notebook computers more energy efficient, and squeeze out every last drop of battery life, will be extended to other areas of our existence.

        Hiroshima and Nagasaki were rebuilt. A world wide depression, flu pandemics and world wide wars brought great destruction. But what I find remarkable is that despite the scars, humans recovered, rebuilt, and thrived. Our collective experience at facing adversity, of understanding potentiality has been increasing world wide. Our knowledge centers and repositories of information are now distributed all over the earth. Unlike Rome, the sum of our knowledge is not so concentrated. We may face very dark days, but we are more prepared to recover.

        I don't write this to in any way belittle the challenges or pain we will face. I do think we will need fundamental changes in our society in order to survive and thrive. However, it does seem to me that too often we forget the role of a changing marketplace. When oil becomes too expensive, coal, bio-fuel, and nuclear energy price to value ratio will change. More importantly, the value of conservation becomes apparent to even the most blinded wingnut soccer mom. SUVs and the big three automakers have seen sales plummet. Their vehicles became far less desirable when fuel hit $3.00 a gallon. Used SUV average sale price has been dropping faster than anything we have seen since the Edsel. This dramatic sales trend and market valuation change happened over a time period measured in months in response to a fairly mild system shock. When fuel prices continue to hold around three dollars a gallon through Christmas, people will again make changes in response. Suddenly buying that new house an hour out of the city becomes less desirable. When the fuel prices hit $4.00 a gallon suddenly developers will begin recognizing the new value of land closer to public transportation, closer to downtown. Whether we have a controlled fall or a catastrophic fall will depend as much on the members of our society as our leaders. Those leaders that espouse empty rhetoric will have far less value and staying power than those willing to address change. The will of the governed will be heard and will be unified at $5.00 a gallon gas prices.

        •  you have a point, except (none / 0)

          Hiroshima and Nagasaki were rebuilt

          This was only achieved because of all that cheap energy. What Devil'sTower is reminding us of is that, when that cheap energy disappears (which seems to be happening right now) we're – the entire planet – going to be facing dire consequences. Sure, we can increase the use of LEDs and develop better, more efficient laptops. But that only goes so far when economies around the world begin to collapse, other resources (which require cheap energy to extract) dwindle, and individual survival becomes more important than what 's going o happen on the next episode of Survivor.

          "They're telling us something we don't understand"
          General Charles de Gaulle, Mai '68

          by subtropolis on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 10:16:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Are we Nazi's yet? (none / 0)

        WWII Germany is not a very good example of how industrial societies solve functionality problems in times of emergency. Any basic delving will turn up the fact that they achieved all these "miracle" solutions only through the imposition of a total war oriented dictatorship that used slave labor to the max.

        On the whole, I'd rather be in Ann Arbor.

        by maerkwuerdigliebe on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 06:59:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Rough slouching ahead (4.00 / 2)

    Thanks for the sobering reminder.

    And I haven't thought of Burke's series for yonks - I wonder if it's rentable.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:15:12 PM PDT

    •  According to Netflix (none / 0)

      Connections 2 and Connections 3 are available but they don't list the first series.

      You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia".

      by yellowdog on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:02:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Try "The Day the World Changed" (none / 0)

        or "The Day the Universe Changed". Burke also published a book by the latter name which is very good. There was also a DVD game based on the same idea with Burke that came with HP computers in the mid 90s.

        I have my fears, but they do not have me - Peter Gabriel

        by badger on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 03:48:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The first series (none / 0)

        is in VHS.  I borrowed it from my library many moons ago.  If your local library doesn't have it ask if they can do an Inter-Library Loan (i.e. library in kansas asks a library in colorado to send their copy.)  Most libraries provide this service for free.

        "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

        by Reepicheep on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 06:14:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's funny (4.00 / 4)

    I've been on a little energy trip myself. I recently wrote a diary about biogas talking about how the raw sewage and organic waste we produce is probably one of the most valuable energy resources we have.

    I think this is a very important local and national issue. If local communities don't use their sewage and organic waste to create methane and electricity, they are imho stupid. it's almost free energy. And the beautiful thing is the infrastructure is already set up.

    It's just a matter of building methane digesters at sewage plants. it's a funny thing to say but poop is truly balck gold.

     

    "There's a kind of freedom in being completely screwed... because you know things can't get any worse. " -- Matthew Broderick, The Freshman

    by friday durdikova on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:19:32 PM PDT

    •  Speaking of feces, remember depolymerization (none / 0)

      Thermal depolymerization has been in the news a lot since a Discover article about Changing World's Carthage, Missouri experimental plant. This facility converts turkey waste from a ConAgra Butterball turkey plant into oil. That's "waste" as in turkey unused bits, not sewage.

      However, depolymerization can also use sewage. The process can take animal parts, plastic bottles, sewage and even medical waste and convert to oil. Not a "solution" but an additional tool that won't be economically feasible until oil goes up a lot. But it's real, and that day isn't too far off and it has the added benefit of more flexible recycling feedstock.

    •  That has always bothered me (none / 0)

      every since I was a kid and I first saw the torch used to burn off the methane gas build up at sewage plants. If nothing else, use it run a small steam generator and make the electricity to power the offices at the plant. Don' just waste it!

      The biomass going to land fills is another source that we allow to go untapped. Eventually, market valuation changes will make old landfills a source for mining materials.

  •  Nah (none / 1)

    Kahn's population collapse will happen first.  But just by a hair.

    James Webb is a bigot. And an uber hawk. Stephanie Herseth is a bigot. Harold Ford, Jr. is a bigot. And so are those who support them.

    by NorCalJim on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:19:51 PM PDT

    •  Count your disasters ... (none / 0)

      Whether it's the religious fringe, wanting me to feel that Hell will be unleashed unless I think pure thoughts - or the liberal fringe, wanting me to believe that Hell will be unleashed, unless I do the right deeds - I'm still stuck in the middle of two Hells.

      And yours is definitely no comfort. There is no out, is there?

      Have seen this coming, of course. Big question is, do we get an accelerator - such as a flu pandemic that shuts down the logistics? Or do we just stumble blithely into a mess of our own making, as the systems we rely upon become too complex?

      "I don't do quagmires, and my boss doesn't do nuance."

      by SteinL on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 11:41:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Interesting thoughts (none / 0)

        I wouldn't necessarily see population collapse as an entirely bad thing...as it was not after the various plagues in medievil Europe.  Although there is no guarantee it will becoem less lethal as it becomes more tansmissable to humans  ..in which case it could overwhelm the 3d world and essentially wipe out the elderly everywhere.  Or we could invent an incredibly cheap computer and provide the third worls with free online porn...which would cut birthrates faster than tv has.  There is alreaady evidence that prosperous Chinese are going all japo in preferring merchandise to kids.  So it could be manmade.

        Personally, I have a lot but not an infinite faith in the dynamics of systems, equilibriums, substitutions, and human adaptability, all of which buys us time if nothing else. WWII & postwar Britain  comes to mind.  

        All of which is just a lead inot one of my favorite conceerns, the tendency to excessively trust in engineering statistics associated with complex systems we don't full comprehend.  The Titanic, the stock market, the Space Shuttle, the Twin Towers fasteners....a tendency to pursue innovation without fully factoring in the cost of catastrophic failure, by unconsciously assuming it away.

        Sorry for ruminating.

        James Webb is a bigot. And an uber hawk. Stephanie Herseth is a bigot. Harold Ford, Jr. is a bigot. And so are those who support them.

        by NorCalJim on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 10:03:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Again? Why not? (4.00 / 15)

    Thanks, D.  I can't say I've read this all yet; maybe after some migraine meds.  Can't wait to get into eschatology with you.  Meanwhile:

    Note to Devilstower:  take a break from Yeats.  Try Robinson Jeffers (Life IS short; don't miss him!) All that salt spray will do you good, and the view is awesome!

    Notes to self:  No red meat?  Check.  Get to mass this weekend?  Check. New flashlights powered by AA's? Check.  Print Alpha Geek's "Are YOU Ready for Disaster" handbook before the power grid tanks?  Hmmmm.  Off to check printer cartridge--after I take a nap with the dog.  (Life is short, take naps with dog first!)

    Cheers!  And yes, I will be Cruise Director in your inflatable raft.

    Men do less than they ought, unless they do all that they can.--Thomas Carlyle

    by gazingoffsouthward on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:21:01 PM PDT

    •  You get a 4 (4.00 / 4)

      just for the "naps with dogs" part. :-)))
    •  Forget the AAs (4.00 / 7)

      I just bought a pair of wind-up LED lights from Costco.  They're fantastically bright, work for a long time from a short crank, and best of all, bear a strong resemblance to Star Trek phasers.  

      My first job out of college was being expeditions coordinator for the National Speleological Society -- which meant that I was underground about 1/2 the time and bought bought both batteries and lamp carbide by the truck load.  I'd have given a lot for a set of these little suckers back then.

      •  Star Trek Flashlight Tag???? (4.00 / 3)

        Way to go, D!! Tell us all about the end of the world and then when it comes, you'll be playing flashlight tag with your TNG Phaser style flashlight!

        - "You're Hells Angels, then? What chapter are you from?"
        - REVELATIONS, CHAPTER SIX.

        by Hoya90 on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:31:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Cool!!!! (4.00 / 4)

        The best thing about the Apocalypse is the gear you can buy.

        Men do less than they ought, unless they do all that they can.--Thomas Carlyle

        by gazingoffsouthward on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:38:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  or shakey-lights (none / 0)

        forever flashlight

        The Forever Flashlight uses no batteries or bulbs. Instead it uses Faraday's Principle of Induction and a bright LED to produce light without batteries. The light is shaken for about 30 seconds to recharge a capacitor and it will then provide about 5 minutes of light. As the light is shaken, a magnet passes through a metal coil generating electricity. During prolonged use it can be shaken for 10-15 seconds every 2 or 3 minutes.

        I haven't used one, though i plan on getting one. I lived through the Montreal Ice Storm.

        "They're telling us something we don't understand"
        General Charles de Gaulle, Mai '68

        by subtropolis on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 10:21:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Here comes Pollyanna (4.00 / 5)

    Aren't "miracles" just the kind of untraceable chain reactions of tiny things that you're talking about?  Ergo, I'm not giving up hope.  Entirely.

    But-- incredible piece of writing.  Thanks.

    Disclosure: now a paid shill for Obama.

    by renaissance grrrl on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:21:03 PM PDT

    •  There's still hope... (none / 0)

      Science is a remarkable thing. I disagree with one of the fundamental assumptions with this diary--that is, "science has given all it has to give"--and therefore take a much less bleak view.

      The biggest problem--no, wait: THE problem--is that so much of what we would use to keep the party going (so to speak) in a post-"peak energy" world requires oil to produce. (Notably: plastics and electronic gadgets that make "high-tech" solutions to these problems possible.)

      But we've all got front-row seats for whatever it is that's coming so get ready!

      The Shapeshifter's Blog -- Politics, Philosophy, and Madness!

      by Shapeshifter on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:30:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There's going to have to be major rationing. (none / 0)

        People will be very very upset, but it will have to happen.

        That is, industrialists making energy efficient technology products must be given first dibs on oil.

        US reserves must be allocated ONLY for them---everybody else, like for all but critical transportation like backbone rail and food trucking, will suffer.

        Fascism is indistinguishable from any parody thereof.

        by mbkennel on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:44:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Even if it's WW2-style again... (none / 1)

          I think that would be a good shift. Even if it stays that way for a long time.

          We're also going to need to learn how to A. bicycle and B. appreciate public transportation.

          And you know, we can go on and on about things that are really out of our control ("Cold fusion doesn't work!" , "We're out of oil!", etc) but we can do some things now.

          Of course, try telling some people that maybe they should bike to work instead of drive their 8mpg H2...

          And: good luck with that.

          The Shapeshifter's Blog -- Politics, Philosophy, and Madness!

          by Shapeshifter on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 03:37:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  unfortunately (none / 0)

            the rationing during WWII was a means to an end. If the end begins to look like civilization collapse, i think most people won't be paying any attention to posters to "do your bit" but instead be getting rather ugly (that goes for nations as well individuals).

            "They're telling us something we don't understand"
            General Charles de Gaulle, Mai '68

            by subtropolis on Sun Oct 09, 2005 at 10:26:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  funny thing (none / 0)

      The thing about human ingenuity is that we do so much only when we have to.  

      Where was technology just before WWI, and just after?  Just before WWII and just after?  Apollo, one US program has given us all our technological breakthroughs of the last 40 years?

      So what's to stop China from their own apollo program and solving our little battery problem?

      Call me a Polyanna

      The world will end not with a bang, but with a "Do'oh!"
      "America is a free speech zone."

      by Love and Death on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 06:46:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for mentioning ... (4.00 / 10)

    ...in this great Diary the eccentric James Burke, whose first round of Connections was about the best thing I ever saw on public television.

    In 2001, Amory Lovins updated his 1981 book Brittle Power, which exhaustively looks at what continue to be major problems with the security of our energy system. Imagine a terrorist attack that is initiated after another terrorist attack or two on the electrical grid.

    But, as you so eloquently point out, terrorist attacks are the least of our long-run worries when it comes to energy. I've ALWAYS been an optimist. However, the unwillingness of people (across the political spectrum) to really make the tough choices, and there is no doubt that energy choices are going to be tough, scares me. And I'm not just talking about shotguns being brandished in the queues to the gasoline pumpbs. This situation is not all going to be resolved by a simple application of technology - unless those aliens who have been watching us struggle and pollute come down from their perch with that thimbleful of perpetual-motion juice.

    Like a cyclone, imperialism spins across the globe; militarism crushes peoples and sucks their blood like a vampire. K. Liebknecht

    by Meteor Blades on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:24:09 PM PDT

    •  Our benevolent overlords (4.00 / 11)

      I can't help but think about the days right after the announcement of "Cold Fusion."

      I was working for a coal company back then, and two things will always stick with me.  First, the vice president of geology, a man who was the best known coal geologist in the nation and who had been in the industry for fifty years, broke down and cried on hearing the news.  "Thank God," he said.  "Thank God we don't have to do this any more."

      The almighty was invoked again by an engineer.  "It's as if, when we were right at the brink, God planted an out for us to find."

      When the optimism of those first few days evaporated, people were quite literally broken.

      •  Deus ex machina ... (4.00 / 8)

        ...is what, unfortunately, I see in the background of all-too-many perspectives about energy. Pebble bed nukes, or Fischer-Tropsch, or biodiesel, or wind turbines, or photovoltaic cells ride to the rescue by allowing us to continue our old, profligate ways  with just a transitional bump. When I worked at the Solar Energy Research Institute a zillion years ago, or covered federally subsidized oil shale and tar sands and coal liquefaction programs for Synfuels Weekly and Inside DOE, I believed that, too. No more.

        The good scenario: We'll finally get it together to conserve and be more efficient and develop massive renewable energy and transform our cities and our agriculture, and the changeover will not result in totalitarianism or slaughter.

        The bad scenario: We won't do the above.

        Like a cyclone, imperialism spins across the globe; militarism crushes peoples and sucks their blood like a vampire. K. Liebknecht

        by Meteor Blades on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:38:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Poignant overlord story. Go figure. Thanks. n/t (4.00 / 2)

        Mama, could we buy stuff made in China if we moved there? -- My six year-old son.

        by leolabeth on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:41:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  A "free energy" gizmo? Wouldn't help. (4.00 / 10)

      Here's the deal.  The OP is an excellent diary.  Except the first part about R&D being dead.  That's utter bull.  What people view as a dead-ended science is simply a matter of the areas of discovery having multiplied to such a vast extent that it is outside of the attention span of the average person to pay attention to all the new developments.  It's easy to pfaw specialist fields like microfluid hydrodynamics and whatnot, but the truth is that back in Einstein's day physics itself  was pretty much a specialty.  You can pretend that  studying the thermoelectric properties of clathrates is just "minor technical detail work" but so was Newton's entire life to a world that didn't value science highly.

      The energy problem is not technical, and there are no resource barriers to renewable energy, and the solutions have been known for years if not decades.  The chalkboard is full and the word "miracle" doesn't appear anywhere on it.  It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that most of our electricity goes into heat management.  If we can cut over half of our electricity use just by smarter application of HVAC technologies developed in the 1800s and earlier, I really don't think that we need worry that technology will come up short in this fight.

      The problem is ENTIRELY due to power-brokering by those who want an energy economy which is structured in such a way that guarantees no small entities will gain energy independence.  The road to a distributed (and thus terrorist and market proof) energy solution has been blocked at every turn for hundreds of years.  Mercantilism never left in this area.  Where energy isn't a big seller, they go for control of the water supply instead.

      That may sound paranoid, but the truth is all most of us need to provide us with heating and cooling, a good example to use because it is a huge chunk of our energy use, are some pipes buried a several feet under the ground and some black tubes in a glass box on the roof.  Not exactly Buck Rogers material.  We just haven't actually DONE it, and that's the truly mindblowing thing.

      Ignorance is Curable.

      by skids on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:41:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yes (none / 0)

        it's a matter of will, nothing more. A real, sustained oil crisis will hit corporate profitably. Believe me, the big fella's are aware of this. They're working on solutions.

        Give us back the America we trust and respect!!!

        by icerat on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 03:13:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, well, their solution will cost us. (none / 0)

          No doubt it will be yet another "help us build the plant with your tax dollars but then we get to sell you the electricity" scheme.  How many more times do we step in the noose for these creeps?

          Those who have the ability be wise: don't rely on jerks to provide you with power.  Get off the grid.

          Ignorance is Curable.

          by skids on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 03:22:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you vote for them :-) (none / 0)

            that's a collective "you" as in Americans, of which I am not one.

            The rest of the world doesn't work quite the same way. If the current US administration was running the world, then yeah, I'd be seriously worried. But they're not, and indeed the past 5 years has shown the emperor's underwear to the world. Now we just kind of point with our hands over our mouths in astonishment.

            Then we get on with sensible stuff.

            Give us back the America we trust and respect!!!

            by icerat on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 03:27:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Ask the people down south (none / 1)

            ... who still don't have electricity back how they like living off the grid.

            And please give me some idea of how hundreds of millions of people can get off the grid, and how steel mills and semi-conductor factories and computer factories can manage off the grid.

            Think about how long hospitals in New Orleans lasted off the grid and after the diesel generators failed.  Think of the people in ICU who died.  

            Whoever is certain he or she will never be in that position--when consistent electricity is a matter of life or death, well, I say, Good luck to you!

            If the middle class has to ration energy, you can be sure that the under class will be brutally starved of it.

            In places in the world where people do not have electricity, the average lifespan is 43.

            The reason people buy electricity is because they need it and because they cannot afford wind turbines and solar panels.  Those remain boutique items for the privileged.

            The IPCC predicts average global temperatures to rise enough by 2050 to put 20-30% of all species at risk for extinction.

            by Plan9 on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 05:41:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •   Electric company (none / 0)

               Here in NH in our electric bill flyer this month was a notice of operation round up.  They are going to round off everyone's bill to the nearest dollar to help the people that can't pay.  Well thats great except they write it off at the end of the year,most  people throw those flyer's away with out reading them.  
               They offer a opt out number, i think this is pretty sneaky if not illegal.  I bought more energy saver bulb's, cuts a lot off the electric bill.  A new fridge a few months ago as the other was a energy sucking machine.  And we heat with wood/combo.  This was a good diary.  Most seem to point to the medieval scenerio.  I kinda agree with the other posters about the science though.  Odd i read an old magazine years ago in a laundry mat about the bacteria discovery causing ulcers, he also believed it to be the source of most disease.  It took 20 yrs to make it official.  Anyone have any idea as to timeframe here.  Nice writing.

            Democracy is not a spectator sport

            by Sophie Blue on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 07:14:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Bingo. (none / 1)

        "The problem is ENTIRELY due to power-brokering by those who want an energy economy which is structured in such a way that guarantees no small entities will gain energy independence."

        And your above- and below-ground pipes speak perfectly to the matter.  Personally, I've burned some gas here arguing PV solar self-sufficiency - but those arguments have tended to cluster around the issue of transportation.

        Not that fuel speaks to all the issues in Devilstower's brilliant post - but it does speak to the bulk of it.

        Well, if the best there is to do is everything right - to get whatever the best result possible may be - then that's what we'll have to do.

        And if we fall - well, we'll come back eventually; and there won't be a lot of cheap fuel around to allow the same mistakes.  Perhaps we'll figure out how to fuel an industrial society by feeding politicians into the tank...

        JF

        It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

        by Jaime Frontero on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 03:38:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Great points all. I was amazed ... (4.00 / 2)

        ...to discover 30 years ago, when I first became interested in solar hot water heating (among other "alternatives") that in the 1920s, nearly a third of the homes in San Diego, California, heated their water with simple, rooftop solar collectors.  

        Like a cyclone, imperialism spins across the globe; militarism crushes peoples and sucks their blood like a vampire. K. Liebknecht

        by Meteor Blades on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 05:05:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You CAN Get Off The Grid... (none / 0)

        ...but it's going to cost you.

        In the last couple of years I've been looking at the possibility of putting a grid-intertie system on my home.  From the research I've ben able to do, such a system (solar panels, batteries, inverter and emergency cutoff switches [which most states mandate that ou have]) can be had for prices in the neighborhood of approximately $15K-$25K (don't shoot me, this is what I remember from the sites I visited).

        The problems are:

        1. The cost of the system.  Most folks don't have that kind of money to play with.

        2. Depending on where you live, you may have to spend more to get an equivalent amount of watts from the system.  Grid intertie systems are not going to be nearly as effective in the Snowbelt as they are in the Sunbelt (due to insolation issues).

        3. There aren't a lot of people who are doing the installation of these systems, and their charges may jack the price of the total system up quite a bit, not to mention that it's not always easy to get the track record of the contractor.

        4. The weak link is the batteries.  They have to be changed out every three to five years.

        5. For Snowbelters, keeping the panels from snow buildup is going to be a major maintenance issue.

        6. For us folks in the South, hurricanes are going to test the setup of the system.  Watching your panels fly away because the install was only rated to a Cat 2 is going to ruin your whole day.

        I'm sure that there are simpler systems out there, and I defer to the expertise of those on this board who know better.  It can be done, but it just costs money.

        Now, what did I do with that 401(k)...

        Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. --Malcolm X Speaks, 1965

        by Deacon G on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 06:17:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Gougers do hurt this industry. (none / 1)

          There's really no reason at all for a grid tie to be so horribly expensive.  I think these systems are likely to have their prices shaved as panel/CPS prices go down because the discrepancy between them and the panel prices will start to grate on the panel manufacturers.

          It's basically a 3 step process.  First you eliminate waste -- dollar for dollar you usually do better upgrading old appliances to reduce usage than you do generating you own power.

          The second step is heat management.  Take care of HVAC and hot water first because those are the systems you can install at a price reasonable enough that they will pay for their own home equity loan payments.  The prices are still inflated, but at least they are tenable.

          Then it's on to electricity.  Really I would recommend against rushing in.  Technology is still catching up here.  For example, in the area of power storage, lead-acid batteries will eventually be replaced by flywheels (see Beacon Power Inc.) and vanadium redox batteries that last much longer and have more capacity.  For that matter, we don't really know where solid-state thermoelectric is headed, and it could end up being cheaper to store hot water before converting it to electricty than to do solar directly.

          However, small systems for dedicated use that don't need tie-in are a good buy.  Do your outdoor lighting.  If you have a hardwired home network, install a POE switch and gradually migrate your electronics and indoor lighting over to that.  You may find after a while the only things on your electric lines are the microwave, fridge, and washer/dryer.

          Ignorance is Curable.

          by skids on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 08:37:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Excellent Reponse (none / 0)

            If I do it, it'll be two years down the road or so. From the websites I've been to the price of the equipment varies quite wildly depending on what equipment you choose to get and whether you do none, part or all of the install yourself.

            I looked at the possibility of fuel cells to replace batteries, but the information's so all over the place concerning availability and price that I won't even consider it.

            Another potential negative point that I didn't bring up is one that's been mentioned on some of the more pessimistic "peak oil" sites, namely, the "you shouldn't have it because the neighbors might take it from you" argument, which I found to be rather depressing.

            Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. --Malcolm X Speaks, 1965

            by Deacon G on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 10:05:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for saying this... (none / 0)

        ...because one of the big breakthroughs that is being worked on, room temperature superconductors, would go a looooonnnnggggg way to improving efficiency. Of course, that's provided you don't need a ton of oil to manufacture them. That's where I think the big break through needs to be, in material science. We're going to need to find a new manufacturing process to make new materials or we had better find better ways to recycle.

        That's the one thing I find interesting when talking to people about oil. I don't think they realize how many of the goods they use require petroleum for manufacturing or lubrication. Granted, the Air Force has been developing EM bearings for RPM jet engines for the main spools, and they may very well have them, but everything rely's on oil in so many ways, I really don't think people, including myself, understand the impact it will have on their lives. Whoever owns all of the "junk" that can be recycled then had better have a well armed security force to protect it.

        The sleep of reason produces monsters.

        by Alumbrados on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 09:38:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Two minds, or maybe more, here. (4.00 / 4)

    These days I look at lines of cars on the highway and try to embed the image in my mind so I never forget how blithely and complacently we live.

    Then, still blithe, I look forward to a life of rail and ship transportation, driving and riding my horse and bicycling to work.

    Finally, I wonder how best to prioritize my energy to best survive, let alone thrive.

    It's both scarey and vindicating that others sense a similar change in the breeze.

    And, I too, loved the Connections series.

    Mama, could we buy stuff made in China if we moved there? -- My six year-old son.

    by leolabeth on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:24:21 PM PDT

  •  Brilliant (none / 0)

    I cannot presume to say more right now, except that this was absolutely brilliant--and far beyond merely sobering... Thank you, Devil's Tower for taking the time and the care to bring this to us.
  •  Jerome is a catastrophist, and meteor is a hysteri (4.00 / 2)

    c. As are you. The clearing price of energy will always be there. The only question is how the limited supplies are used.

    If at first you don't succeed, skydiving probably isn't your sport.

    by Lefty Malone on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 01:40:17 PM PDT

    •  Catastrophism and hysteria (4.00 / 2)

      aside, all I care about is: Are they right?
    •  Substitute Food (4.00 / 5)

      "The clearing price of food will always be there. The only question is how the limited supplies are used."

      Yes, exactly.  

      That doesn't scare you?

      •  food (3.80 / 5)

         If the price of food is going to be part of the equation, wouldn't the countries using "modern" industrialised, petrochemical based agriculture be hit the hardest? It would seem to me that people in the 3rd world will just be watching in amusement as our oil-based house of cards collapses. I mean they don't even use all that much petroleum, and they rely on older, less centralised means of production.  The American way of doing business will come to an end eventually...likely in spectacular fashion. It is then that we will realise how little the rest of the world needs us, our factory farms, our oil, our SUV's and so forth.

         If the rest of the world had willingly swallowed our poison pill of technology combined with top down economics and mass consumption I would be able to see this doomsday scenario coming to pass.

         We will crash, and the earth and it's population may well end up better off because of it. How hard the landing is is up to us.

      •  BS, moron. The clearing price of food (none / 0)

        is a local issue, and can be adapted to by local efforts. Famine is caused by idiotic governments, not shortages.

        If at first you don't succeed, skydiving probably isn't your sport.

        by Lefty Malone on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:44:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  what happens when the clearing price is (4.00 / 2)

        one potato, one bullet

        Fascism is indistinguishable from any parody thereof.

        by mbkennel on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:46:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You would be astonished by (none / 0)

        the amount of food we Americans waste every day. I don't know what percentage of produce and meat are discarded every day from supermarkets, but I know its pretty high. That's just the supermarkets.  At every step of the food processing chain less desirable stock gets dumped.  Also, we as individuals often buy more than we need due to poor planning, etc. and end up throwing a lot out.
  •  Hey, nice. (none / 0)

    Also a fan of Burke's first series and of Glieck and Gould.

    Oddly enough, Commerce is running out of ideas and momentum at precisely the general time we're running out of energy to prop up the wheezing beast. The below graphic doesn't include peak oil, but it should. Doesn't matter though--the internal contradictions of current models are undermining themselves the way water scours bridge pilings or, ahem, over-topped levees. We're in the midst of an attempt at Punctuated Equilibrium here, the old resisting the new, mightily. I imagine literal dinosaurs in the last throes (hah!) also made quite a bit of mess and noise.

    Nice diary!

    Click for big...

  •  And the game of chicken we're playing... (4.00 / 8)

    ...is infected with avian flu. Sigh.
  •  backyard vegetable gardens and guns for everyone (4.00 / 2)

    2012: at least the LAST president will be a Democrat.

    by leftout on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:06:40 PM PDT

  •  gonnhave to hold it off until at least February... (none / 0)

    I'm holding a $20. 75-1 slip from Vegas on the Fins winning the Super Bowl...

    I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain

    by route66 on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:06:41 PM PDT

  •  Somewhat contrary view (4.00 / 11)

    I can easily get into an apocalyptic frame of mind - in a lot of ways I don't disagree with this diary. But there are some moderating factors - things may get worse, and probably will, but they won't necessarily be horrible.

    The first moderating factor is that the end of cheap energy isn't the same as no energy, and the changes aren't likely to be abrupt and monotonic. For example, we saw energy prices fall after the 70s, and we saw them fall again last week (for how long is anybody's guess).

    The second moderating factor is the way complex systems behave. They're not "this goes in, and proportionally that comes out" type of systems - they have complex loops of feedback, and tremendous amounts of inertia. I used to simulate my business and it's remarkable how hard it is to either kill or grow a simple system like that. For example, if sales fall, profit margins rise, interest expense drops, taxes drop and the reverse happens if sales rise - the bottom line varies, but not over as wide a range as you'd expect. In control systems theory, the term is "damping" - same as the shock absorbers and springs on your car.

    So for example. as energy prices rise, people drive a little less, FedEx adds more fuel surcharges, bananas get more expensive, and over time the effect of all those small changes is to move the entire "system" to a new equilibrium point or through a series of equilibrium points. Cheap energy has only been around for 150 years or so - people have been around a lot longer, and  were able to do a lot of cool things (everything from Homer - the Greek, not the Simpson - to Wagnerian opera and Demosthenes and Pythagoras virtually through Einstein was accomplished without cheap energy). I know people who used to use 12-15 cords of wood to heat a drafty farmhouse for one winter - that's not cheap energy by any stretch.

    We have an advantage on the dark ages too - we know a lot more stuff. If you give a flexible system (us) a lot of good information to work with it can produce amazing results. Things will change, but things always change.

    The thing is, the demise of cheap energy isn't the only apocalypse we face. If we solve energy, then fiscal collapse is right behind that, so is a major crisis (IMHO) in employment and income, so is the rise of China as a world power, so is global warming - there's no shortage of competitors for the "if we don't fix this we're screwed" prize. So while energy is extremely important, it isn't the end of the world - or at least not the only one.

    I have my fears, but they do not have me - Peter Gabriel

    by badger on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:15:53 PM PDT

    •  people survived then (4.00 / 3)

      because energy supplies and quality and technology were continually expanding.

      There's an enormous difference in hard times back then when the slope is up, and hard times when the slope is down.

      And we have 10 times as many people.

      Fascism is indistinguishable from any parody thereof.

      by mbkennel on Sat Oct 08, 2005 at 02:48:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  On what level? (4.00 / 2)

        On a macro level - looking at broad populations and time intervals of a 100 years, perhaps. But at the micro level for long periods of time the rate of major technological change was much longer than an average lifetime for the average person.

        I agree that the differences over history can be enormous, but they're not all in on