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Students are walking out in at least 3 different cities.  I don't know the background on this.  But, I do know

More than 1,000 students, many of them from 40 Twin Cities area high schools, protested today against the war in Iraq and military recruiters on campus.

http://www.startribune.com/... Update This is the first day of the World can't wait walkouts, so here's the link to that site. I assume they'll be updating. World Can't Wait

I think a walkout is great.  If young people are spurred to this kind of action, then that means there is really something hitting home.  

No doubt, there will be those on the right who are saying that all of this is orchestrated to coincide with the actions of the Senate yesterday.  

Originally posted to otto on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 01:42 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Ed Schultz... (4.00)
    ...also reported some 1,000 Seattle students walking out today. Good going, guys!

    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

    by ilona on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 01:43:25 PM PST

    •  Yeah, that's where I heard it (4.00)
      I hadn't seen it diaried anywhere.

      It's the kind of thing that makes me happy to live here in Seattle.  

      I don't see any action on the cam at the UW.

      •  Otto... (4.00)
        ...why not go to this page at the World Can't Wait site, and edit your diary to include some of the details of the protests that are going on?

        Quick stats so far:

        • Washington, DC - 300 people in front of WH
        • Chicago -
        • Madison - 300-500 people
        • Los Angeles - Van Nuys locked down
        • Seattle
        • NYC - est. 2500-5000 at Union Square
        • Atlanta - 500 gathered

        I think this is a great thing, and deserves to be applauded.

        Go, kids, go!!!!!

        Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

        by ilona on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 01:53:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Van Nuys locked down? (4.00)
          WTF? Please elaborate.

          Californians: Get Out And Vote 11/8!
          Econ: -4.63 Soc: -6.92
          "Upperdown" meme RIP 10/27/2005...

          by MamasGun on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:10:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The information came... (4.00)
            ...from the link that I provided. The page has updates and links to reports of the protests.

            NBC-4 : Students Walk Out Of Schools

            More than 800 Los Angeles Unified students walked out of their high schools Wednesday as part of a nationwide protest against the administration.

            Adults accompanied groups of students "in all cases" as they left from 10 high schools -- Los Angeles High, Van Nuys High, Downtown Business Magnet, Francisco Bravo Medical Magnet, Marshall High, Hamilton High, Fairfax High, Orthopaedic Hospital Medical Magnet, Lincoln High and Belmont High, said Dan Isaacs, the district's chief operating officer. "Our issue... was safety, and I think we fulfilled our mission, frankly," Isaacs said.

            The groups varied in size from 10 to 250, he said. The district sent staff, school police and youth relations personnel to walk with the teenagers and made buses available to take the students back to school when they got tired. Some students may have splintered off from their groups, but Isaacs said he expected the majority either returned to campus or went home for the day, which was relatively free of incidents.

            Van Nuys High was temporarily placed on lockdown after a group of 20 to 25 students left around 11:10 a.m. for the protest, said LAUSD spokeswoman Ellen Morgan.

            The principal called for the lockdown "for the safety of the remainder of the students," Morgan said. She said the principal reported that after the group of students left school, other teens were running around the campus "causing a disturbance." The lockdown was lifted around lunchtime, Isaacs said.

            She denied students at Reseda High were prevented from joining the protest. "About 50 kids were thinking about walking out, but, coincidentally, LAPD were bringing some truants back to the school, so when the kids saw LAPD they turned around and went back to their classes."

            Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

            by ilona on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 06:10:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  we've come a long way (4.00)
              1971-"Officials put 1,800 inmates at Sing Sing Prison on indefinite lockdown."

              2005-"Van Nuys High was temporarily placed on lockdown after a group of 20 to 25 students left around 11:10 a.m. for the protest"

              High school always felt like prison to me, too.

              "I ain't no physicist, but I knows what matters"-Popeye

              by keefer55 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:30:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Seattle (4.00)

        Several hundred protesters filled Pine Street in downtown Seattle today to protest the war in Iraq and the Bush administration's stance on everything from Supreme Court nomination to reproductive rights.

        The protest was organized by the Seattle chapter of World Can't Wait, a group started in New York City in June but that leaders say has since spread to more than 60 major cities across the country. High school and college students walked out of class to join the rally, which organizers say is dedicated to ousting President Bush.

        "People who steal elections and believe they're on a mission from God will not go without a fight," said lead organizer Maggie Lawless

        Amen sister.

    •  Walkouts are great but... (4.00)
      I want to see a Teamsters Strike!  Let's hit them where it hurts by closing down big business.  The GOP never cared about school kids anyway.
      •  Or a general strike... (4.00)
        ...which is what today was supposed to be. Somewhere along the way, about a month ago, I remember hearing the news that today was supposed to be a no school/no work day. I jotted it down on my calendar.

        Since I work from home, I've spent the whole day goofing off in solidarity! :o)

        Anglico's trying to organize a general strike on Dec. 7th (anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack).

        I'd love to see the Teamsters, and everyone else band together on that or another to shut things down for a day. Peaceful protests are valuable; but, hitting back via the pocketbook hits the powers that be right where it hurts the most. If we ever managed to shut down our economy for one day in America, I can't help but believe that it would demand real attention from our 'masters'.

        Sure, it would hurt our country financially; but, it would be a pittance compared to what BushCo's already done to us.

        Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

        by ilona on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 04:19:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  My group lobbied Senator Cantwell (4.00)
      at her office, after the student walkout.

      Cantwell wasn't there.  Her aides listened politely and patiently, making notes as each of about 16 antiwar activists made a brief presentation, some quite eloquently, backed up with references. I was very proud of us, and wish I had an audio tape for you.

      What I learned about Maria Cantwell, however, was VERY disturbing. Will diary the details tomorrow.

      Now must prepare to host the conference call with Howard Dean at my house tonight.

  •  New York City (4.00)
    The walkouts were organized in support of a call for such actions by World Can't Wait. They have updates on all the actions across the country. I went to the rally today in NYC at Union Square and there were a couple thousand folks there and I'd guess at least half were High School students from a lot of different schools. I know that in the Bronx students who attempted to walk out were arrested. It was a beautiful action. The spirit of defiance was exhilerating. Its long overdue.

    "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

    by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 01:44:40 PM PST

  •  RECOMMEND this Diary (4.00)
    Its not my diary, but its important that Kossacks know about this. It didn't get much advance buzz here like September 24, but in the long run it may be a more significant development. What made the demonstration so exciting for me was the explicit commitment to RESISTANCE, to the idea that we need to actively interfere with business as usual to stop the war and get rid of Bush. So many protests are based on the idea simply of having our voices heard on the presumption that that the only problem is that the people in power can't hear us and would do the right thing if they could. Today's actions represent a move from protest to resistance and its not surprising that they attracted so many more young people than a lot of the other anti-war events I've attended.

    "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

    by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 01:49:17 PM PST

    •  the first protest against the war in chicago (4.00)
      they stopped traffic. people were pissed because they were"inconvenienced". My co-worker couldn't get to her Dr. Offcie- not an emergeny- her son is the patient and he said -These people have the right to protest.  More money then people must listen to you.
      •  Join us? (none)
        Just a quick note to report that we are working to organize a national strike for peace . . .

        . . . coming December 7th.

        It started here, so feel free to drop by and give a nudge for the cause.
        .
        .
        .

      •  I'd estimate the Chicago protest (none)
        at a couple thousand.  

        I was surprised at the anti-war sentiment among the  police.  There were maybe 1,000 of them.

        Oh, wait, you mean the city assigned them ... nah, nobody could have been that stupid and wasteful with our money as to have put 800-1000 police on overtime to deal with 2,000 protesters.

        I prefer to believe that the 1,000 police on hand were marching in support of the rally.

  •  Young people do not want... (4.00)
    ...to fight in Bush's war.
  •  I'll be the party pooper (3.00)
    A little rebellion is great but this is hardly an effective means to ending the American occupation of Iraq.  They would have better spent their time going to class and learning.  Writing LTEs, leaving flyers on cars, or calling their reps or senators on their own time are more effective means of protest.  Right wing fundies look at student walk-outs like they're just being lazy and don't want to go to class.  It immediately discredits the value of what they're doing, in the eyes of the people they need to reach out to most.  

    If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

    by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 01:52:02 PM PST

    •  It's a media culture (4.00)
      Phone calls and emails don't resonate as well with elected officials.  They don't even see them. But, they do see their constituents on TV, and they know that they are getting ideas.

      Think about what this will look like on MTV.

      •  will the media report it? (none)
        Will this show up on MTV?

        Besides LINK and FSTV and maybe a 2-minute blurb on C-SPAN, do you really think the media will pay attention?

        As a follow up diary, I'd be interested in knowing how many media outlets - and which ones - gave this student walk-out any coverage at all, how long the coverage lasted and whether there was any video.

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 01:59:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You bet MTV will report it (none)
          It's the kind of thing they love to report on.  

          Movements carry in youth culture at a much different pace than they move in mainstream culture.  

          Something like this can have an effect on highschool students in a matter of days.  

          There is almost always an initial reaction to protests, even if you are a portester/activist yourself.  It generally goes something like this:  That person must be crazy, he/she is out on the corner complaining that people eat too many Nutria.

        •  Media Isn't Everything (4.00)
          I'm sure this will get coverage, but probably not as much as it deserves by a long shot. Media coverage can amplify the effects of a protest but it is wrong to judge success only in terms of seconds of air time or column inches in the newspapers. Protest demonstrations are important for their effects on their participants as well. Tomorrow tens of thousands of High School students will go back to school and be TALKING about what they did with pride and excitement because in taking action they became a part of something larger and broke down some of the soul-crushing isolation that is promoted by this society. They will be different people as a result of their experience and that change will be infective. How strong and how far it will spread remains to be seen, but a single-minded focus on media will miss the most important effects of these actions -- their impact on the participanats, their schoolmates, their co-workers, their friends and families.

          "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

          by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:14:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  A great speech by Al Gore (4.00)
            He was addressing a media convention.  He said that the reason the Demonstration, big D, became popularized in the 60's was because of the lack of participation people felt they had in the media.  

            There is very little attention paid by the media to a lot of these issues.  The media is just now coming around, but if people still feel a disconnect, it's going to grow.

          •  If the media does not report on it (none)
            plan another one and another one and another one. It will certainly get their attention then.

            I wonder if Olberman might pick it up.

      •  I would disagree (none)
        that phone calls don't resonate with elected officials.  Emails aren't as effective, that's true, but it's still making your voice heard and addressing it directly to the people we elect.

        Phone calls definitely make an impact, as do written letters.  Threats of not donating to their campaigns work even better.  

        Don't get me wrong, civil disobedience is absolutely necessary at times, I just don't think this effort is going to get any credibility or coverage from mainstream media, and instead will only end up being discussed among people who already show those students' views.

        If they'd stormed their senators' offices.... now THAT I would get excited about.

        Yeah, sorry, party pooper.  I'll go sit against the wall now.

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:05:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Symbolic Acts Are Useless (4.00)
          That's why Bush didn't go to the ruins of the WTC, why we never saw the statute of Saddam pulled down, why the people on the Berlin Wall in November 1989 had no resonance, why the sit down strikes aren't remembered, why nobody knows who Cindy Sheehan is, why the guy in front of the tank in tiannmen square isn't remembered by anyone, etc.

          And who's Rosa Parks?  Did she do something small yet monumentally symbolic?  

          Naahhh, that's just crazy talk, isn't it?

          The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

          by Dana Houle on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:31:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  At least they are doing something! (4.00)
          What did you do today to stop the illegal occupation of Iraq based on lies?

          I have been writing LTEs, emails to reps, faxes, phone calls and jeez, things are getting worse. Civil disobedience is the only way to get the media attention. Look what the dems did yesterday. They said, "I am sick and tired of being railroaded by you asswipes and we are not going to take it anymore".
          Bravo for ever American that stands up and says NO TO BUSH!!

          The more understanding one posesses, the less there is to say and the more there is to do.

          by Alohaleezy on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 04:04:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Show clips of those kids getting arrested (none)
        to the MTV audience-- now THAT would make them sit up and want to join The World Can't Wait!
    •  Party pooper indeed. (4.00)
      I'm guessing their LTEs and such would not likely have stirred much attention. It makes me proud to see young people stepping in the direction of civil disobedience.  I dare say if the number was a couple of million students, it would be very big news.
      •  Civil disobedience is great. (none)
        But like I wrote above in my response to Otto, I would LOVE to see some real numbers on what kind of coverage this gets.  And definitely more information about what students did after they walked out of classes to encourage anti-occupation sentiment.  

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:01:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I huge group marched by my office (none)
        in downtown Chicago.

        I heard many, "what, they don't have jobs?"

        •  my 10th grade students thought.... (4.00)
          pakistan was a city in iraq.  90% of them believe saddam hussein was responsible for 9/11.  

          sigh

        •  Wow.. students not having jobs (none)
          Are the people saying that idiots?

          Most people in school who are full-time students don't have jobs, why?

          Because they are fullt-0ime students.

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

          by Lestatdelc on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 04:20:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  In Chicago (none)
            it wasn't particularly a student march.  The posters and banners I saw announcing it in the last few days didn't mention anything about students.

            Not defending the idiots who said 'don't they have jobs.'  Just characterizing the march.  The crowd was young, but not all that young.

        •  "Don't they have jobs?" (none)
          No, they're students.

          "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

          by fishhead on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:35:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  "what, they don't have jobs?" (none)
          The persons who made the remark "what, they don't have jobs?" are definitely GWB fanatics and there is nothing we can do in our power to change that.

          With the way that this neocon-controlled Bushco government has boosted the super-rich and crushed/oppressed the middle class for the past five years, most of us will be out of a job pretty soon. What the strike is trying to do is help ourselves, which is definitely better than not doing anything at all. Writing LTE's and such are well and good for those who can but we cannot limit ourselves to that approach. There are people who want to help anyway they can but do not have internet access, nor the correspondence skills. Let's respect the people's right to do something they can and believe in. This is not a contest on which is the best approach to determine the only ways that we could say "enough is enough". These varied approaches will have a way of complementing each other. Since we are fighting for the same cause, we should be more supportive of each other.

    •  Screw right wing fundies (4.00)
      we're not going to get to them anyway.  If they don't understand now, they never will.

      have you looked at bush's numbers lately.  This is a good time for students to do this.  Also, they can do what you suggest and walk out.  Walkouts are a time honored method of calling attention to their cause.  And this cause is just.  Plus it empowers students and gets them on the right road - I've heard Clemente students speak at protests before the war and they were darn well prepared.  

      Listen, one day out of school is not going to affect their scholastic life.  Clemente in Chicago for instance is a working class school and I'm sure they understand they are the kind of kids that get drafted and they may as well start getting active - their college funds will be cut big time.  I wish I had been more active when I was in school.

      The beneficiaries are likely to be...large corporations and development firms. (O'Connor, J. dissenting in Kelo). God bless you, J. O'Connor.

      by xanthe on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:03:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  thumbs up to empowerment (none)
        and I'm sure that this probably has empowered students.  And I think that's great.  And I totally agree, one day out of school will not kill them.  Fundies be damned, yes, but reasonable people listen to fundie talking points.  How can they NOT, what with the right-wing dominance of mass media?  You KNOW if this gets any play at all in those media circles, it's going to be hostile, and ridicule those students.  I can just hear Laura Ingraham now... going on about how they probably just didn't want to go to class that day, or Rush talking about how academia encouraged this because of its liberal esthete hold over the minds of young people today....  

        Maybe I'm not explaining myself well.  I don't disrespect the kids for doing this, but I do believe that this will be ineffective in comparison to non-walk-out options and easily spun by the right-wing wacko pundits.

        I could be wrong.  If so, I will come back to this thread and give everybody '4' love.  Promise.  But send me links!  I want to see who broadcasts news about these walk-outs!

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:15:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  To Be Attacked by the Enemy (4.00)
          is a Good Thing!
          It means you are doing something that threatens them. If we let the fear of what they will say about us prevent us from taking action we are doomed to perpetual defeat. Your logic leads to paralysis. If Rosa Parks were to have followed your line of thinking she'd have ridden at the back of the bus for the rest of her life, because they certainly didn't hold back in saying nasty things about her (something that is forgotten in our candy coated retrospectives sometimes). We need to create our own culture, our own media outlets, our own means for shaping the perceptions of our actions and part of doing that involves organizing the actions themselves. I look forward to seeing what kind of media these actions get, but I also look forward to the kind of media people decide to create out of frustration with the coverage it doesn't get.

          "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

          by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:23:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  aaah!! (none)
            my concern is over STRATEGY.  I'm not criticizing civil disobedience or disregarding is as an ineffectual means of protest or political dissent!

            I agree with what you're saying but lecture/analogy aside, this isn't the era of Rosa Parks anymore.  Media culture, marketing and DOMINANCE of anti-information spin culture in the mainstream media limit the amount of real reporting done on "people" movements and protests, walk-outs, etc.  How many news outlets covered last month's DC protest?  How many news outlets cover the thousands of walk-outs, boycotts and protests which occur EVERY DAY in this country, whether they're about environmental issues, corporate malfeasance, labor exploitation.... you name it.  Trust me, I'm not saying what they're doing is bad.  I'm just questioning whether this is AS effective a strategy now as it was, say, 40 years ago.  We need numbers.  This walk-out didn't have it.  That lessens its credibility.  Plus, it was a student walk-out.  Not a walk-out of middle-aged professionals, who, if you will excuse me, carry a helluva lot more clout than any student group does, save maybe College Republicans.

            I'm trying to be positive, I am!  I just think they could have strategized this better.  Easy for me to kvetch, I know, I know.... I'll just end this by saying I'm glad they did SOMETHING.  And I think they should be very proud of having enough gumption to do this.  I have to catch a bus now.  I use only public transportation.  Can I have a '4' for that?

            If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

            by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:35:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  It must start somewhere (4.00)
              I actually agree with your points about the different media environment we live in now. But we aren't going to go from 0 to 1,000,000 in a day. There is a process of building up our capacities to mobilize, of building up peoples courage to break the rules and so on. Actions like this are never the last word. They are part of a process. That this action has provoked this discussion in itself is a victory. Just by taking action they got us talking about strategy instead of just bitching about the latest outrage from the Bushies.

              Individual protests are unlikely to ever have the impact that they had in the early days of television. But that doesn't mean that they don't have other purposes. There were lots of important protest BEFORE television. Some of them quite effective.

              "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

              by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:43:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Break on through to the other side (4.00)
              Hey man, you don't control this reaction, we don't own it, no one owns it or controls it.  

              Sorry pal, let the chips fall where they may.  Bush started a disastrous war on lies. I been waiting years for this.  Let's hit the fucking streets!!!!!!

              I been a teacher for 20 years, if there is one thing these kids need it is to take a risk for something they believe in.  You have no idea how much a young person can learn by fighting the system, caring about their country.

              This system is so rigidified and codified and the whole college scene, we need to open up the culture to what's really going on.  We need to break through the spin.

              I just watched a program on global warming on PBS.  It's here.  Everyone knows it in the world of science.  We need to rise up as a species.

              You can say, "yeah", let's do it this way or that way, but you know what, there is no way right now but to do drastic things so the system responds.
              \
              There is a reason why the Bush administration is so absolutely bankrupt, morally, politically, policy-wise.  They represent the last gasping of resistance to change--and the media lackeys can't even see it because they are too busy trying to get the next interview, to push their own agenda.

              Let these kids go.  They are full men and women, and if they know what's best for us, then I say let them throw some energy around--it can't be any worse than what we got now.

              Education? Teaching? NCLB? Read my book _Becoming Mr. Henry_

              by Mi Corazon on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 06:45:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  What is this obsession (none)
          With what Laura Ingraham or Rush Limbaugh have to say?  If no one walked out of school today those two would still be spouting some kind of shit.  It's assinine to structure your protests around what they might have to say.  

          It happens a lot lately here.  A centrist Democrat (I suppose) appeals to what the far right will think as a way of stifling any politics that threatens to get out of the neat boundaries of two parties and LTEs.  There is a left in this country and I don't mean Howard Dean.

          Bush - the New Hoover. He really sucks.

          by slick riddles on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:37:28 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  And we all know that we must (4.00)
      tailor all of our actions to please the Christian Fundamentalists! </snark>

      This was an enormously effective action. Thousands of young people, many of whom have never participated in any political action before, walked out of their schools in defiance of their administrations and gathered together. I saw a lot of flyer slipped under windshield wipers by these kids (and stickers slapped on lampposts as well) but the most important thing was that they saw EACH OTHER and saw their own numbers and saw that they were not alone and that they were powerful.

      Some of these kids will write LTEs. Others will campaign for anti-war candidates. Still others will organize more militant actions. All of those things contribute to the creation of a cultural tidal wave that can swamp the war machine.

      Little is ever accomplished by trashing other people's chosen tactics. I think the fixation with electoral politics here is misplaced and I will argue for my point of view when it is appropriate, but I am more interested in getting people to pursue a variety of tactics and thereby attack this administration on ALL fronts. So please, DON'T be a party pooper. It breeds ill will and hurts the larger cause. If you want people to write LTEs, go to a protest and hand out flyers explaining how (not everybody knows!) instead of kvetching about people who are getting off their butts and doing something to stop this war.

      Street protests are often critical in building effective movements. The involvement of young people and a willingness to go outside the rules are also important. World Can't Wait should be applauded.

      The kids are alright. More power to them.

      "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

      by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:06:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I only kvetch part-time. (none)
        The rest of the time I'm too busy doing what you seem to accuse me of not doing i.e. participating in activism to end the war.

        My points don't breed ill will!  Heh?  I didn't write that I think it was bad that they did this, but I just don't consider it the most effective way of protesting the occupation.  If that's what they want to do, then totally fine.  There are certainly a lot of positives to this type of action in terms of self-empowerment.  But I think it's easy to spin this against the students and for lack of any other real information about what they've done or how it's being covered, this is what I see happening.  But like I wrote, if this gets any modestly significant media attention I'll be happy to come back and say my crystal ball wasn't working properly.  I just think there are MORE effective ways to go about the protest.  

        If a couple thousand white-collar professionals in this country decided to stage a walk-out, now THAT would be something....

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:23:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let's go for it! (4.00)
          I'm a white collar guy. I'd stop work in heartbeat if we have a national strike.
          •  with you. (4.00)
            white-collar.

            Let's walk out.

            If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

            by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:35:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think a national strike is key (none)
              It's a completely different animal than ANSWER standing on a stage screaming at Zionists. It's unexpected, newsworthy and frightening to our corporate overlords.
            •  Okay. (none)
              Let's just say we really wanted to make this happen. I'm serious. What would it take?

              I'm going to start stirring this up . . . but I can't do it alone.  We need at least 30 committed conspirators to start.  You're one. Smallbottle (below) looks promising.

              Now what?

              Maybe we get our 30 friends to all write diaries at the same time . . . say 6 pm on Friday ET . . . all of which call for a National Strike.

              Think about it. Stay in touch. Recruit a few allies from here . . . or wherever.  

              Are you in?

        •  Talk is Cheap (4.00)
          MAKE IT HAPPEN!

          World Can't Wait called for walkouts from schools and workplaces. Of course its easier to get High School student to skip school than to get non-union workers to risk their jobs, so thats who responded in the greatest numbers. But by all means organize the white collar general strike that you think would be more effective and I'll be there.

          "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

          by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:36:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Okay. But you have to help. (4.00)
            I'm serious. What would it take?

            I'm going to start stirring this up . . . but I can't do it alone.  We need at least 30 committed conspirators to start.  You're one. Smallbottle  looks promising. Deep6.

            Now what?

            Maybe we get our 30 friends to all write diaries at the same time . . . say 6 pm on Friday ET . . . all of which call for a National Strike.

            Think about it. Stay in touch. Recruit a few allies from here . . . or wherever.  

            Are you in?

            •  Organization (4.00)
              It would take organization.  That's what it would take -- a command structure, several plans, committed people out there spreading the word, and follow-through with regard to execution.  

              This is what the unions realized in the early part of the last century -- when you get people together in an ORGANIZED way, you can move mountains.

              As for the white collar strike, I'm there, but why not call a general strike? Seriously, if we shut the fucker down for a day, it would force them (as in "not us") to take notice.  The media would have a pretty tough time ignoring it if people (and the system that feeds off them) just stopped working for a day.  And, hey, they can't fire us all.  

              But it's gonna take some serious organization to make that happen, something way beyond what ANSWER and UFPJ have been able to muster.    

              In every stage of these Oppressions...: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury." DoI, TJ

              by ChuckLin on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 04:11:30 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I know what you mean . . . (none)
                But I can't even get a darn diary on the reco list.  Maybe you can give it a shot.

                I was thinking . . . maybe we can get 30 people to all post NATIONAL STRIKE diaries at the same time next Monday . . . one month out from December 7th.

                Worth a try?

                •  Awesome idea! (none)
                  Let's spread that meme over the next several days.  How does Monday around 7:00 EST sound to you?

                  In every stage of these Oppressions...: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury." DoI, TJ

                  by ChuckLin on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 06:04:51 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (none)
            I read the alternative press obsessively, and I didn't see any of their calls for action today.

            Somehow groups on the left have to be more effective about organizing national events. MoveOn did a pretty good job at getting the word out about the nationwide candlelight vigils, but often it's tough to generate the publicity.

            Of science and the human heart, there is no limit. -- Bono

            by saucy monkey on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:45:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Spin this against the students? (4.00)
          Isn't the threat of a never ending war enough of an impetus "against the students."

          Tut-tutting and naysaying never bothered a single adolescent I've ever known. You may not have outright said it was a bad idea, but you did suggest that the students should have done something other than they did. Which suggests to me that you feel pretty well innoculated from the issue of serving in the war. These kids are frustrated, feel powerless, and are justifiably anxious that a draft might swoop in and tear them away from their lives and their loves. Have a little heart for christ sake.

          The INEFFECTIVENESS of the student movement of the 60s was what made it ultimately so effective. The peace groups and civil rights groups protested on their own terms, and while I'm sure a lot of heated LTEs got sent, nothing works like marching and taking to the streets. Their action today, of which I was entirely unaware, even though I'd heard people talking about it as I got off the train this morning, inspires me, I'll tell you that much.

          As for effective use of time and energy, you are always welcome to write an LTE as opposed to wasting time on on-line fora.

        •  Excellent reply, now we'll (none)
          really get the heat off our chest!
      •  excellent points... (4.00)
        i see this as a victory for democracy. these kids deserve the right to voice their protest against things that are going to directly effect their immediate futures.

        most of us active in politics, do write letters, send emails, make phone calls, but I feel alone in many of my actions in that regard, because I don't know if I'm being heard, if the person on the other end just says, 'oh there's another crazy democrat', and I don't know how many other people feel the same way I do.

        Coming to places like dailykos or any other blog/forum to discuss issues, do so, in part to feel like a community and that I'm not alone in my beliefs and ideals. I'm sure many here would agree.

        The fact that those kids were able to get organized and come out in force, no matter how small, in and of itself, is the finest example of democracy and we should be proud that these kids are willing to fight for the future as much as I am.

    •  Sorry, but I must disagree with you... (4.00)
      ....if you look throughout this country's history, real change has only developed through struggle and civil disobedience.  

      You make a very big mistake when you speak out against people's movements.  

      I suggest you go read a People's Hisotry of the United States of America again, if you haven't done so already.

      •  I'm not .... (none)
        speaking out against "the movement" or civil disobedience.  I think you misunderstand my post.  I'm just not excited that this will have as many positive effects as many people here assume it will, or that it will get the favorable coverage people assume it will.

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:27:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course.... (4.00)
          ...this alone will not cause the war to end.  But each act of disobedience piles upon the prior acts.  After some time, you no longer have a cause, you have a movement!  If the movements succeeds, you have a culture.
          •  quite right (none)
            and I hope that as the movement evolves and grows, becoming an anti-war culture, people with financial/political clout such as white-collar professionals engage in a much riskier form of civil disobedience and walk-out for a day in protest of Iraq's occupation.  (I'm not being snarky.  I'm being serious.)

            I'm with Anglico, in favor of a professionals walk-out day.  I just don't know how much support it will get from people who question the stability of their job, especially from people willing to insatiably soak up anti-GOP news like the kind on here, and relish in their preaching to the choir without really taking on people who differ significantly from their point of view...

            I love people who put their jobs where their mouth is.  Striking, though commonplace in Europe, is considered radical here.  I would LOVE to see a walk-out amongst professionals.  I'd feel so much better about the effects of the student movement if I saw something like that.

            If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

            by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 09:06:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  what if... (4.00)
          Rosa parks or martin luther king had said that at the beginning of the bus boycott.

          It took over a year of civil disobedience and boycotts to change the law.

          Look at the rights of women to vote...if people think this is going to be an easy fight, or if they expect it to be, maybe they should bow out now.

          •  I hear your concerns (none)
            but again, the Rosa Parks analogy (no doubt thought of by her recent death) isn't fully applicable here.  I, nor anyone else posting on this thread, has contempt or fear of the notion of civil disobedience.  Nor do I (we) expect to see results in a day.  What I want is better strategy.  Rosa Parks had engaged in civil disobedience several times before and she was active in the NAACP.  She was not the first person to say 'no' to segregation.  She was, however, the person Americans created as the historical figurehead of the anti-segregation movement of the '40s and '50s.  I absolutely believe in remembering her for her actions, but let us not be so naive as to assume that there was no strategy or effort before her to accomplish the same goals.  The strategy that organized the bus boycott is what I want to emulate.  I really can't see any one of these students who walked out of class being held for all posterity as some figurehead against the Iraq war.  If anything, Cindy Sheehan has already won that title.

            If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

            by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 09:12:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Does it further the cause (4.00)
          from where it was yesterday? I submit it does. What more could you possibly expect?
          •  Yes. (4.00)
            Just a quick note to report that we are working to organize a national strike for peace . . .

            . . . coming December 7th.

            It started here, so feel free to drop by and give a nudge for the cause.
            .
            .
            .

          •  Maybe. (none)
            How can you possibly be any more sure that it furthers the cause, than I am sure that it won't?  I've admitted to such already and am not so callously self-assured as to deny that.  

            But what more could I possibly expect?  Better organization and real strategy that seeks to unify the fragmented elements of the Democratic Party, dear sir.  We are only now reembracing the label of "liberalism" as a positive thing, having spent almost four years of being morally blacklisted for declaring ourselves anything but pro-administration zealots.  It wasn't until the bogus "I'm George W Bush and I have a mandate" nonsense that we even started reclaiming liberalism as a positive force in the world - probably because we were so pissed off he would take a minor, questionable electorate victory (second time?) as such clear justification for his inane policies.  We were so busy trying to redefine ourselves as "progressives" or disassociate ourselves from the label of liberalism without abandoning the policies of liberalism that we forgot to rejoice in the reality of our world view, and admit proudly who we are so we know who's fighting on our side in the battle: voters who understand that what's good for business is not always good for people; citizens who believe the best way to protect democracy is to encourage and support universal education; that profit without ethical gain is not profit fairly received; that separate is not equal....  I don't need to go on.

            Right now, I'm living in a country whose government thinks that a fetus dependent on me, a questionable human being, has life interests that trump my own... me... UNquestionably a human being. I'm living in a country whose government thinks my life philosophy, atheism, is somehow abberant, immoral and undeserving of the same constitutional protections people of religion enjoy.  I live in a country whose government squanders my hard earned tax money on guns, bombs and corporate welfare while its most vocal participants and those in most need go hungry at night and have to jump through a million hoops before a politician will even PRETEND to listen to them.  And Iraq.  Fucking Iraq!  Iraq is what Hell looks like.  And I don't even believe in Hell.

            I don't know.  Maybe because I'm familiar with your screen name, mrblifil, I feel okay about writing all this....  But I guess I would hope that you and anybody else who happens to be reading this knows that my criticism comes from frustration.  I want liberal policies and liberal activism to work.  I don't begrudge these students their activist passions; but I'm pissed that the people who really have the most to lose - steady, corporate-employed, health-insured, property-owning Democrats weren't marching there right behind those students.  I submit to you that today's average, self-declared liberal activist will not sacrifice his or her job, health insurance or timely rent payments to engage in such a walk-out.  I appreciate what the kids did, but the penalties for walking out of class aren't that severe.  During my college years I barely attended whole semesters of classes and I still graduated.  (Can you tell?    /self snark)  I feel this. The effects of neoconservatism.  Politics isn't just a hobby for me.  That's why I want to see any activism as unified, strategized, involved and supported as possible.  I didn't see that here.  I think any mainstream coverage will disregard this as a meaningless action, if we get mainstream coverage at all.  That's all.  I know my concerns aren't any different from those of other people on this site, but I want to really take back liberalism.  I just can't get super excited about this walk-out, that's all.

             

            If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

            by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 10:23:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  'If At First You Don't Succeed... (none)
      ...in fixing all the world's problems and it requires more than one day of organizing, it's a failure and not worth the time." </snark>

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by Dana Houle on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:28:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  what? (none)
        criticizing strategy and effectiveness of certain kinds of civil disobedience now gets me snarked?

        Silly.

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:36:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Judging a Single Day of Actions... (4.00)
          ...by high schoolers in places across the country in terms of its effectiveness in "ending the American occupation of Iraq" is a silly standard.

          The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

          by Dana Houle on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:40:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  but again. (none)
            that's another reason my point is valid: Rush or Hannity might say the exact same thing you just wrote.  They would use that to ignore or discredit the entire walk-out, as an ineffective show of what Democrats have to offer for an alternative to the Bush plan of occupation (aka "liberation").  Michael Savage would just ridicule the entire movement.  I in no way "fear" what inanities these people have to say.  It's the fact that they have unquestioning listeners and audiences that accept their word as law that I seek to address.  That's why effective protests require strategy as much as they require passion.  I don't think you would disagree with me, but I do think it's important I clarify that.

            If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

            by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 08:33:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  It's still good for the participants... (4.00)
      ...especially if they are punished.  It will politicize them which leads to bigger and better things.

      Republican't Leadership is a dangerous combination of cut-backs and incompetence.

      by casamurphy on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:38:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  no offense... (4.00)
      ...but when newspapers don't get read by a majority of the population in this country....and when it's illegal in many municipalities to distribute flyers in parking lots (it's considered littering)...when our elected officials feel more beholden to corporations than constituents....it seems outright protest is a pretty damn good idea.

      Crime is contagious....if the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law. -- Justice Louis Brandeis

      by FemiNazi on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 03:05:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  absolutely (none)
        couldn't agree more.  But the organization of that protest was insufficient and ineffective in terms of garnering serious national support, wasn't it?  I don't like hotly arguing with fellow Dems, so I in no way mean to be disrespectful or pretentious, but wouldn't better organization of today's events to include more people have been more effective?  All I heard of this protest was some ads on Air America Radio.  I didn't see anywhere near the attempts to unify fragmented inter-democratic groups and bring them together for a common goal, like I experienced with the outreach that occurred for the March for Women's Lives last year in DC in April.  Did you see a real attempt at outreach through numerous channels?  If so, please let me know because I'll tune into those radio stations/tv stations/blogs asap.

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 08:38:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  OK Party Pooper (4.00)
      This is what the Kids are Thinking and Saying;

      "We can't Vote Yet but Our Voices Need To Be Heard, as it is 'Us' Who Will Be Sent Into This Illegal Conflict!!"

      ^^^^^^
      ^^^^^^

      AMERICA IN DISTRESS

      •  Opt out of the JAMRS database (4.00)
        JAMRS' "High School Master File" will come in handy when they reinstate the draft. Hide your teens, then check out their "Mother's Attitudes on Military Service" Study.

        Learn more about agressive recruiting tactics at http://www.leavemychildalone.org.

      •  I am. (none)
        I'm such a party pooper.  Here Otto is trying to build up excitement about the protest and I go and criticize its effectiveness.  I slap MYSELF on the wrist.

        But I can't HELP it!!!!!

        I have a brother who is of draft age (younger than me).  However annoying he may be, I don't know what I'd do without him.  I don't disavow the importance of civil disobedience, nor the fact that the people most directly affected by an indefinitely pending reinstatement of the draft are people in his age group.  

        What I want more than anything is a sense of strategy and focused direction for this extraordinary frustration and anger and fear that so many young people face as we enter this new era of "war on terrorism".

        Our goals are the same, undoutedly.  But our methodologies clearly differ.  Do I seek to dissuade groups of students from outwardly protesting the occupation, via walk-outs?  No.  I wouldn't ENcourage it though, unless there were much larger numbers of students considering it.  What I want to see is responsible adult individuals taking the place of students.  Why should they, with little to lose other than a teacher's attitude or part-time pay, be the mouthpiece for a movement whose primary advocates are those of us who claim to be looking out for those younger generations?  Frankly, we should be ashamed that students had to bear the burden of this protest without any worker or "white collar" professional support.  Until the suits protest along side the undergrads, the birkenstocks won't get any coverage.  We need to be realistic about this and stop living in fairy land.  Otto's post was important and I'm glad he wrote this diary, but to the original point, am I excited that this will have some sort of serious or even MINOR effect on the anti-war movement?  No way.  This is preaching to the choir.    

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 08:50:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  It means the students (4.00)
      are learning!  They are listening, they are reading and they are aware of what is going on.  Probably moreso than their parents.

      Kudos to the kids for having the guts to do something worthwhile.

      Not the church. Not the state. Women will decide their fate.

      by JaciCee on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 03:31:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Let's see: GenX slackers taking up a cause (none)
      Hell, the only way you get these kids excited is if you take away their iPods and their ability to share songs on the Internets. Oh, and maybe if two hotties hook up on the latest installment of MTV's The Real World (I am probably so dating myself with that reference. I have no idea what kids watch these days. Probably same as me: the latest celebrity sex tape).

      Anyway, even these small displays of anger and dissatisfaction just reinforce all the other signs that the country is waking up to the fact that the emperor has no clothes.

      •  Couldn't agree more. (none)
        Is venting alone important?  Yes.  

        Is venting alone effective?  No.

        Is the goal of a walk-out to vent and self-empower, or is it to in some way reduce the number of supporters or tacit public support for the war?

        What do you think?  (I mean that in a genuine, not patronizing way.)  And how did the students' efforts post walk-out further their efforts?  What types of actions did we see come about from them skipping school?  

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 08:54:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  wait a sec (none)
      Lazy?  These are post-secondary students.  It's their dime - they can go to class if they damn well please.

      "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

      by fishhead on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:34:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not sure why you got borderline (none)
      ratings.  You put forth an excellent question which allowed a sound rebuttal by the knowledgeagle, generating a most satisfying thread.  I also noticed you have an excellent diary in the archives, which also generated a most satisfying thread, by again, a question that
      was soundly rebutted.  Thanks for the comment!
      •  thanks (none)
        my boyfriend actually wrote that post though, while I was still logged in as a user.  Can't take credit for it but because I didn't disagree with it, I didn't try to find a way to delete it.  He's a Libertarian but I'm slowly having SOME effect on him because he's nowhere near as anti-Democratic as he used to be.  Hope that's my politics and not my cooking affecting him  :)

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 08:58:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  But Its A Start nt (none)
    •  A little rebellion is hardly effective? (none)
      I'd bet Rosa Parks wouldn't think so.  

      "'Tis the time's plague when madmen lead the blind." KING LEAR

      by Iwanna B French on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 06:00:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Rosa? (none)
        When one of the students from this protest garners the national spotlight and support, essentially becoming a figurehead for a movement, as Rosa was for desegregation, some unknown kid will become for being against the occupation of Iraq, THEN Rosa Parks comparisons are appropriate.  Until then, please stop making martyrs out of these students.

        If I had a nickel for every president who lied the country into war.... Oh, wait....

        by deep6 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 10:29:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Lovely article on it (4.00)
    This the headline the San Francisco Chronicle gives their story on the walkouts (by way of Google News): Protesters taking to streets to seek Bush ouster -- Communist group is helping organize nationwide effort.
    Calling itself The World Can't Wait, the group was initiated in part by supporters of the Revolutionary Communist Party, and it has a simple goal: removing Bush from office by impeachment or resignation -- even if, according to the organization's Web site, they're not quite sure what should follow
    Well, that should get middle America on board....

    The spring is pure, but foul it once with mud and you nevermore will find it fit to drink. --Aeschylus

    by Alien Abductee on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:08:57 PM PST

    •  Oh boy! Communists! (4.00)
      Are they still illegal?  Is this going to get people arrested just for associating with a Known Communist Agency?  I thought terrorists were the Bad Bad Bogeyman now.

      Besides, these days it seems like the Bushies are the Bad Guys.

      Chaos, fear, dread. My work here is done.

      by madhaus on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:24:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "middle America" is a myth (4.00)
      The red-baiting is to be expected. They red-baited the CIO in the 30s and the civil rights movement in the 60s because -- guess what? -- communists and socialists were important in getting those movements off the ground and keeping them focused on larger objectives.

      Most Americans oppose this war and oppose this president. But most Americans aren't doing shit to make their views a reality. Not surprisingly the initiatives to do so come from folks with the most radical criticisms of this social system. What matters is when those criticisms begin to resonate with millions and they begin to act. We saw a little of that today and my guess is that the red-baiting won't scare away as many people as it would have at another time. To be sure it will scare away some, but many of them will find other outlets like MoveOn or pacifist groups. The imporatnt things is that people are getting into motion and not waiting for the Dems to stop this war.

      "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

      by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:31:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Middle America (none)
        in the sense of people who haven't actively settled into either of the left or right camps and aren't really paying much attention. The Chronicle has deliberately chosen to highlight the one participant (among the many involved) that will be sure to short-circuit any thinking on the part of these undecideds.

        The spring is pure, but foul it once with mud and you nevermore will find it fit to drink. --Aeschylus

        by Alien Abductee on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:45:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  In East West Terms... (none)
      ...Minnesota is pretty solidly "Middle America."

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by Dana Houle on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:33:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Politics does indeed make for strange (none)
      bedfellows........

      Nothing short of an aroused public can change things, nothing less than democracy is at stake- Bill Moyers

      by maggiemae on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:38:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The SF Cronicale is full of shit (none)
      Note the wording:

      Calling itself The World Can't Wait, the group was initiated in part by supporters of the Revolutionary Communist Party

      Prove it.

      There is not a single thing that proves this "some people who support" type crap.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 04:27:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, "yes" on the communists (none)
        From the "World Can't Wait" FAQ:

        Q: But aren't there communists in World Can't Wait?

        A: Yeah, there are. Supporters of the Revolutionary Communist Party helped initiate it. They're in it because they think it's absolutely urgent to get rid of this regime, that it would both lift a huge burden from the world and would also give people a sense of their own potential power, and they think all that would open up avenues to get to the society they want. Same as a whole lot of other people in World Can't Wait -- which, by the way, includes Greens, Christians, Republicans, anarchists, Muslims, Jews, feminists, Democrats, pacifists, and people who claim no affiliation -- who also think it's urgent to drive out the Bush Regime and who also think it can help lead to bigger changes that they want in society, coming from their own viewpoints.

        Just sharing information, no agenda.

        We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. - Anaïs Nin

        by Valentine on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:21:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Compared to terrorists (4.00)
      communists are downright quaint.  Are we still supposed to quake in our shoes at the mention of a (gasp)commie?
  •  Can't wait for Impeachment (none)
    "We seek to create a political situation where the Bush administration's program is repudiated, where Bush himself is driven from office, and where the whole direction he has been taking U.S. society is reversed." link

    This isn't a protest agaist the war, specifically, but the shrub himself. Way to go kids!

    •  I can't wait until we take back congress. (none)
      If you haven't noticed, Bush has little power at the moment.  I love his lame duckness.

      To really make change in this country, we need to focus on the '06 elections.

  •  a bit mixed (none)
    a) do we really want people skipping school?

    b) they're skipping it to make a political point, which they'll learn more from than sitting in class reading from a textbook.

    So yeah. It's cool.

    •  tend to think (none)
      that some kids ARE free-riding this opportunity, but aside from that population, most of these kids (young adults) are inherently passionate and activist individuals - good qualities common in those that go on to seek a higher degree.
      •  who cares if they are free-riding (none)
        They might actually see something, some small event, that realizes that they were apart of bigger event of change.

        It's okay to have people who are along for the ride occassionally.  Sometimes it gives them perspective to open their eyes.

        •  The free riders don't go to the protests. (none)
          The go to the mall, to Dairy Queen, or home.
          •  Disappointing (none)
            Why are you so bent on painting so many students with such a broad brush?
            •  Because I was a high school student, (none)
              and my brush has had personal experience with what happens numerous times.
              •  I don't understand why you're so down (none)
                How else do you expect change to come about?  Change won't come if we sit on our asses.  There is a startling reality during a protest.  You are there with people who are thinking as you.  While the general reason for the strike is sad, the people aren't.  They are chanting.

                Going through the movements of protest is not a natural exercise.  It requires practice and promotion.  

                •  Because I think there are hundreds of things (none)
                  that are more effective than protesting.  Writing letters, volunteering for candidates, fundraising, talking with other students, organizing lectures, volunteering for any social justice cause, actually doing something.  The great majority of protests I have seen (and remember, I actually was a participant) have not accomplished much beyond making the protestors feel good and maybe screwing up traffic.
          •  Well let's just fucking give up on EVERYTHING (4.00)
            We can all rally round ben nelson and dianne feinstein, and just act like everything is fucking perfect.

            OH...well some kids might not take the protest seriously.  WELL DUH.  They're fucking kids.  But you know what?  Maybe 5% of those who are free riding, will get SOMETHING out of it.  

            If you want to have absolutely no hope that anything we could ever do will ever do any good, then go be an Eeyore somewhere else.  If we can't hope that something good is possible than what is the point of anything AT ALL?

            •  Did I say give up on everything? (none)
              The only options aren't protest or sit on your ass.  How about every student pledges to write one letter to an elected official?  Memorable to the legislator (because they rarely get letters from students), and direct (no media coverage required).
              •  This diary is about right now (none)
                It's not like the students are sitting around trying to decide what to do.  They are out there NOW.  and you're here saying, "that's pointless."   My point was that there might be a few kids who go along and see something and that encourages them to be more engaged, like the other activities you suggest.  But you have maintained a history of comments of basically just being a black cloud over everything.  So what is the point of your completely antagonistic pessimism?  Yes, you have drawn your attention, you don't think it's worth while.  Why don't you go tell those kids that.  I'm sure they'd appreciate hearing it.
            •  Don't slam Eeyore (none)
              I adore Eeyore.  He's the coolest and most complex of all the pooh characters.

              Eeyore is an optimist who is grounded in reality unlike the bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy tigger. :)

              Eeyore is kind, accepting, tolerant, empathetic, and introspective -- and he's a donkey -- the symbol of the democratic party. :)

          •  So Call Off the Movement? (4.00)
            Jeez what a ridiculous line of reasoning. Kids who just want to skip school have never been lacking for excuses to do so. Thousands and thousands of kids walked out of school today and absolutely did join in protests and you are wasting electrons speculating about the ones who went to the mall. I'm sure some did, but why are you so sure they wouldn't have done so anyway? More to the point why do you care? Are you Mr. Weatherbee? I skipped plenty of classes in High School and I'm convinced I preserved my mental health by doing so. Whatever I missed in my American Government class doesn't seem to have hurt me.

            You think the only effects of protest are to make the protesters feel good and tie up traffic. I think thats nuts. But even if its true -- those aren't neccesarily bad things. Its important that people who oppose this war have some experiences that make us feel good, because feeling shitty makes us less effective in the other things we do. It makes us write crappier LTEs. It makes us grouchy when we knock on doors. You get the picture. Our morale matters. As for tying up traffic, that can go both ways. Obviously it pisses off some people. But its also an indication of our power to disrupt business as usual.

            BTW, you really are a misanthrope. May I suggest switching to decaf?

            "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

            by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:01:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, yes, yes (4.00)
      skipping school has a direct effect on school district budgets which are based upon attendance.

      It will definitely get the adults' attention; and like I mentioned above, if the students are punished it will politicize them even further which will lead to bigger and better things.

      Republican't Leadership is a dangerous combination of cut-backs and incompetence.

      by casamurphy on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:41:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That would suit W just fine. (none)
        The school districts didn't start the war.  Furthermore, they get their avg. daily attendance (ADA) money from the FEDERAL government.  So, a student walkout takes money away from schools and gives it back to the warmongers.

        Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be KILLED BY Cowboys.

        by GoMommyGo on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:08:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Talk About Not Seeing the Forest (4.00)
          for the Trees.

          I'm sure the walkout cost some schools some money. But there is something much bigger in play here: whether a generation of young people are going to build a movement to stop a war that their oh-so-mature congress calling, letter-writing, GOTV parents have so far FAILED to put the brakes on.

          In the long run of course a politicized generation of youth will probably lead to MORE funding for schools. But that would require looking beyond the horizon of a single day and the considerations of a single balance sheet.

          "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

          by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:09:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Big Picture: Public Opinion (none)
            John & Jane Q. Public are increasingly on our side.  Why do you want to scare them away?  If we want to help young Johnnie & Janey, let's show them how to Opt Out (http://www.militaryfreezone.org/...) and expose the lies of military  recruiters, not take desperately needed funds from teachers, etc. who are also, mostly, on our side.

            Let's be the ANTI-Recruiters on campuses.  Let's dog the war machine and dry up their sources for fresh fodder.  In other words, if Dick's cabal wants a war, they'll have to send their own kids.

            Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be KILLED BY Cowboys.

            by GoMommyGo on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 02:46:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Hmmm, let's measure, (none)
      three hours of walking around with a picket sign, or three hours of a lecture on LBJ and Vietnam in 1968 (which some students somewhere missed).  You're telling me that the school skippers learned more?  Especially considering that 60% of them ended up at the mall?
      •  One of the most important days for me (none)
        I was probably 20.  I don't recall if I skipped class, but I went to the rallies that were being held against the first gulf war.  

        That moment has resonated.  

        •  I skipped class in protest of the Persian Gulf (none)
          war as well.  I don't really remember much about it.  There were numerous days where I learned more in school, and I was a major slacker.
          •  well that's more about you isn't it? (4.00)
            Don't sink the whole ship because you were lazy.
            •  Not really. (none)
              I was a lazy student.  I was much more active politically than the great majority of my class (which was overwhelmingly conservative, I might add).  I protested and wrote letters and was a member of the High School Democrats and volunteered for candidates.  
          •  I'm not quibbling with the amount of info (4.00)
            Of course, they won't be getting their trig, or their Spanish, or their fucking home economics.  But, the practice that students get by going and protesting is immeasurable.  

            Can they protest on a weekend?  Will anyone notice it?  Do it on a weekday, right in the middle of the business day and the newsday.  That way people come home and they see it on TV.

          •  I have to go protest 7 year old boys (none)
            At soccer practice, so I just wanted to let you know that you're handle is apt.
      •  Two things (none)
         1. these kids are NOT skipping school, they are walking out.  It is an inherently political, and liberating act.

         2. they cannot go to the mall because security will hassle the shit out of them if it's during school hours.  

        Well three 3. a 3-hour lecture on LBJ and Vietnam - gimme a fuckin' break.  

        Bush - the New Hoover. He really sucks.

        by slick riddles on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:07:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I didn't know (4.00)
        that today was "National Teach About Viet Nam Day" in our nations High Schools. When I was in High School we NEVER got around to Viet Nam and I suspect that hasn't changed a whole hell of a lot. My bet is that today was more likely "National Teach Isolated and Therefore Useless Facts About the Sherman Anti-Trust Act Day" or "National Watch 'The Incredible Bread Machine' Day" or "National Crack Jokes About Mr. Dixon's Stained Shirt Day." Not to denigrate the work of High School teachers (my wife is one) but missing a day of school just isn't the end of the world and there is a pretty good chance (though no guarantee it is true) that doing so to attend a protest will be more educational.

        "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

        by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:16:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually (none)
          It is Jackson, Biddle and the Bank War.

          But seriously, thank you for holding up the right of HS students to protest in this thread.  You seem to have greater energy than I have and I appreciate it.

          Bush - the New Hoover. He really sucks.

          by slick riddles on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 07:39:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  A geezer remembers (4.00)
      I was in college in Ohio in the early 70's.  Lots of anti-war marches, demonstrations.  Remember Kent State?

      Funny thing, and we commented on it at the time, the demonstrations never took place in the winter.  Usually in the spring.

      We'll know they're serious if they're out in the snow...  :)

      •  Or on the weekends. (none)
        Especially if it is really early.
        •  Cotton Mather (4.00)
          Really you are quite the killjoy. Yes people are more likely to protest when the weather is nice. So fucking what. You obviously won't be happy unless we all wear hairshirts.They are also more likely to protest at the beginning or middle of the semester than at the end when papers are due. That doesn't fit so conveniently into your "lazy kids" meme, but its something that organizers have to take into account. I've participated in marches of thousands in Minnesota in February. Admittedly by February Minnesotans are pretty antsy to get out the house no matter how miserable the weather. But the point is that most people do this because it really matters to them and your pissy comments to the contrary serve no constructive purpose.

          "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

          by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:23:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  As a high school teacher, (4.00)
    I applaud the activism of these kids.  This is encouraging; let's hope it continues.  

    Jesus + Fetus = SCOTUS (math by Jon Stewart)

    by lightiris on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:28:15 PM PST

  •  I Dunno (none)
    I've seen the posters and agitation for this for weeks and my gut reaction is that it's either completely inept or a secret plot by the college republicans.

    In other words, walking out of school and work is counterproductive and has nothing to do with BushCo... Other than making people feel the left is dysfunctional.

    Am I wrong?
    I do support protests generally.

    9/11 + 4 Years = Katrina... Conservatism Kills.

    by NewDirection on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:39:34 PM PST

    •  High Schoolers Get a Pass (4.00)
      Not a hall pass, but a pass on the judgement.  Adults tend not to judge high schoolers in terms of their highly developed sense of judgement and responsibility, but they pay attention to the passion with which they express their beliefs, especially on "adult" subjects like war.  So in that context, I think it's OK.  

      Now if they try it every Wednesday, all bets are off.

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by Dana Houle on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:42:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, You Are Wrong (4.00)
      This was a well-and well-organized action with a clear and unambiguous single message: Bush must be DRIVEN from office. That is to say that we can't wait for the Dems to win back control of the House and Senate and MAYBE begin impeachment hearings. WE need to get out into the streets now and make the country ungovernable until these guys step down. Its a pretty strong message. What is interesting is how widely it resonates. Walk-outs are very effective and emphasize the importance of interfering with the normal operations of the sysyem when it is on such a collision course with disaster.

      "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

      by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:49:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No one is hearing your message except (none)
        for the teachers and students at your school.  As an adult with no children who reads the newspaper every day, I would have no idea about this if I didn't read Kos.
        •  I wouldn't have known either.... (4.00)
          Except that I work in downtown San Diego and walked right into the middle of a protest today in front of the mall.  It didn't look like many and it didn't seem like mostly high school kids to me....but I walked into a tree when I saw them so I might not be the best witness in the world.
          K.

          "I wish I could show you, when you are lonely or in darkness, the astonishing Light of your own Being." --Hafiz

          by mskate on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 03:50:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Except? (4.00)
          And why doesn't reaching teachers and students count? We are talking about a lot of people here. And don't forget parents. It might not reach you (except that obviously it is), but not everything is about YOU. The people this is reaching matter just as much as you do (more in fact, because you are an impervious grouch, but I digress).

          How long did the Montgomery Bus Boycott run before it got national news? How many little pickets against  the war in Viet Nam were there before the 1965 March on Washington catapulted opposition to the war into mass public consciousness? You have no appreciation of the role of small events in larger processes, no respect for the importance of the experiences of participants. In short you have been very effectively socialized not to rock the boat or to have much faith in your fellows and it doesn't seem to have made you a happier person. So why don't you quit your grousing, put some flowers in your hair and come out into the streets again already?

          "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

          by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:33:03 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Jesus Christ, all I'm saying is that I really (none)
            doubt protesting is the right tactic to use.  The thing that frustrates me the most is that Democrats are great at doing things with the best of intentions, but are absolute crap at evaluating what is the most effective thing to do.  Witness the orange hat in Iowa debacle.  And Republican dominance in the years following the anti-war movement.  The Montgomery Bus Boycot suceeded because it was well organized, had one of the most gifted leaders that this country has seen, and brought attention to a problem that most people had swept under the rug.  The protest had some effect on Vietnam, but so did the number of body bags coming come, Walter Cronkite's reporting and  the public's increasing awareness that it was an unwinnable war.  Great, the kids had fun.  If they learned anything tangible, I think that's wonderful.  But I don't see the wisdom in protesting against something that the country is already 60% against (or maybe more, I haven't seen the latest poll).  I'm getting a very AWESOME, IT'S 1968 ALL OVER AGAIN! vibe and seeing very little actual discussion of what is best to do.  But obviously my opinion doesn't count because I have bought into The Man and his government.
            •  The Problem Isn't That You Object to the Tactic (none)
              its that your arguments for your objection aren't very good. I think that its absolutely critical to evaluate the effectiveness of all tactics that we use. And to do so constantly because what works in one situation may not in another.

              There seem to me to be two main weaknesses in your analysis. First, an overly narrow understanding of what success means for a TACTIC (as opposed to a STRATEGY). Second, a lack of appreciation of the need for a variety of TACTICS within an overall strategy.

              Tactics like street protests can fulfill a number of functions within an overall strategy. These might include:

              • gaining media attention for your cause
              • building confidence and morale within your constituency
              • demonstrating your organizational capacities and potential threat to people in power
              • active disruption of the workings of some institution
              • building solidarity amongst disparate constituencies
              • building momentum for a future action of some sort
              etc...

              Rarely in my experience is the real purpose of a demonstration direct persuasion of decision makers though many participants might frame it as precisely that.

              Before you dismiss the effectiveness of a protest you should make sure what the (implicit or explicit) intended outcome was and consider unintended but positive consequences.

              Effective strategies deploy a variety of tactics.  This is because different tactics work better agains different targets, but also because different tactic appeal to different constituencies. 17 year olds don't respond as well to appeals to write their congresscritters as 55 year olds. Similarly young people are generally more willing to march and shout in the street. A good strategy is one that utilizes the energies of everybody by taking those differences into account.

              Your posing of different tactics against each other is overly schematic. For the most part they aren't mutually exclusive but rather mutually reinforcing (doing one makes it easier to do another).

              Your general arguments against the effectiveness of street protests are shallow and superficial. Of course images of body bags contributed to opposition to the war in Viet Nam. But it was protests that threatened to turn passive opposition into something much more threatening to  people in power concerned with social stability. Our rulers do not just respond to shifts in our opinions. If they did troops would be leaving Iraq and Roe v. Wade would be safe. They respond to ACTIVE forces and interests. Street protests are one of the most straightforward ways of turning passive opposition into something active. Of course some folks just go home after the protest. But our rulers know that many go on to do other things and that in any event protests always carry the risk of going outside bounds of acceptable dissent. So when they happen they take notice.  

              "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

              by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 09:04:54 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  These guys (4.00)
    were pretty seriously organized at the protest march in DC.  Lots of students, lots of signs linking to their website, a great deal of organization, etc.  

    I'm glad they're doing it.

    HEY - why haven't you visited my blog?

    by RenaRF on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 02:42:05 PM PST

  •  Bravo!! (4.00)
    I'll keep saying it over and over again....

    Change only comes from struggle.

  •  Right on, little hippies (4.00)
    The more the merrier.
  •  As a College Student... (4.00)
    I would join in but I couldn't find out anything was going on here and it will have no effect and change nothing.

    Still I'm sure it would be fun! :p

  •  Yay students!! (4.00)
    My sisters did this when the war started in 2003...they were both still in HS at that point. It is great to see students active in politics!
  •  Berkeley students (4.00)
    are marching in San Francisco.  

    I heard one interviewed on the local news blurb on Air America.

    Way to go, Berkeley!

    Your president lied to me.

    by Oaklander on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 03:02:05 PM PST

  •  Great stuff (4.00)
    And it always makes me sad to see people hating on the protests. I mean, has our blogging here actually stopped the war in Iraq or brought down the Bush administration? People who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones.

    Students should be encouraged to put their knowledge to use in the world. I would go so far as to argue that they haven't learned anything unless they actually make that connection between the intellectual and the practical.

    I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day

    by eugene on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 03:02:28 PM PST

  •  i was hoping (none)
    it would be a walkout to protest cuts in financial aid.
  •  I got some video (4.00)
    Couple of comments on WCW-LA

    On Wilshire/Federal from 12-2 there was a high school "official" posted with a radio.  I'm assuming he was some sort of truancy officer sent to rat on those that did attend.  

    Second, the most vocal of the hundreds I saw up and down Wilshire were certainly the youngest.  It's refreshing to see a student body take up the cause and get involved at an early age.  One could argue they have the most to gain by stopping Bush now.

    Video of the Wilshire/Federal event here:

    http://www.03202003.com/...

  •  80 students walked out of our Iowa CIty HS n/t (4.00)

    -- Be the change you wish to see. Gandhi

    by Wee Mama on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 03:44:39 PM PST

  •  Hehehe (none)
    The movement revs up!
  •  I was starting to wonder (4.00)
    if young people were ever going to stand up against this war.
       The only reason the peace movement in the 60's was able to stop the war was because of young people. Young people have been very quiet about Iraq so far. They'll have to make a lot more noise.

    "The sun is not yellow, it's chicken." -Dylan

    by gjohnsit on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 03:57:19 PM PST

  •  National Strike: December 7th (4.00)
    What the hell. Somebody's gotta do it.
  •  yeah!!!!!! (4.00)
    I'm just glad kids are doing something!

    Why not make a day for americans opposed to the war to not go to work?

    Seriously.

    The thing women have yet to learn is nobody gives you power. You just take it. ~Roseanne Barr

    by leftout on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 04:18:33 PM PST

  •  They came down my SF street an hour ago. (4.00)
    The sound of marchers with megaphones swelled.  Someone in my office suddenly remembered hearing about it.  There were plenty trucks carrying loud amplifiers, surrounded by joyous people.  They were backed up by quite a few wheelchairs.  Most of the signs were in Spanish, but World Can't Wait was prominent.  There were some Canadian flags, making me wonder if the Canadian war crimes prosecution story was actually starting to gain traction.  

    Police came in thick around and behind them.  It made me doubt the demonstrators had a permit.

    In our office we interrupted our meeting, opened windows, and several of us whipped out cell phones, realizing we had cameras in them.  People in the street cheered and we waved back.  Someone in the office pointed out Bush has never visited San Francisco.  "What an idiot."  We adjourned the meeting.

  •  Santa Monica (none)
    Santa Monica Third Street Promenade about 2:00pm.
  •  Awesome. (none)
    Smells like teen spirit... which smells refreshing.

    "The brain is such a wonderful instrument (until God sinks his teeth into it)." - Hunter S. Thompson

    by ease august on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:05:14 PM PST

  •  I did a partial transcript (none)
    of the protesters' call-outs in front of the white house just minutes ago in a  diary, Bush and Laura had to welcome the royals through the protestors...heehee!

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Jesus was a victim of the death penalty.

    by coigue on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:13:32 PM PST

  •  Thank You!!! (4.00)
    This is one of the best things we can do to take back our country from the nutjobs right now.  Students, white-collar, blue-collar workers, moms-at-home, grannies and granpas, we need to all pull together and show our popular strength.  

    let's go....

  •  Totally random idea. (none)
    I'm Catholic and I always thought it was interesting that the church is supposed to be against the war, but most Catholics in America support Bush, and everything that he does (especially here in the south... my mother used to talk with people in church and everyone was secretly praying that Bush would get elected.)

    So, why not organize a church walkout?

    People go to church and walk out in the middle of mass in protest of the war. It would get attention, I think. And no one could say it's just commies who hate America and are for terrorists.

    Is this stupid?

    "The billboards shade the flags they wave. . ." -Bright Eyes

    by indiemcemopants on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:38:48 PM PST

    •  Join us . . . (none)
      and bring whatever churches you can find.  (Please post this over at Street Prophets, too. It's a huge idea.)

      We are working to organize a national strike for peace . . .

      . . . coming December 7th.

      It started here, so feel free to drop by and give a nudge for the cause.
      .
      .
      .

      •  Could you (none)
        possibly post it over at Street Prophets?

        I don't know where it is and I don't really feel comfortable posting all over the internet. You can say where it came from and all, I just don't want to have accounts everywhere.

        "The billboards shade the flags they wave. . ." -Bright Eyes

        by indiemcemopants on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:47:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Catholic (none)
        I don't know what is going on at your church but my Catholic Church has been praying for peace during every mass (at least when I've been there, I seldom miss) since the war started.  

        During the intentions we pray for peace AND the safety of the soldiers.  If yours is praying for George Bush instead, I'd call the Bishop to complain.

        The Bishops & Monsignors used to care about that sort of thing.  When my granduncle was the Monsignor of the Grand Rapids area, he used to recruit relatives to go check out what was going on at certain parishes he had gotten complaints about.  It meant driving to a church we didn't normally attend to go to mass there for several weeks then report back what we had heard. If he had show up himself he wouldn't have gotten the same feel for what was going on as he did by sending one of his nieces/nephews and their families.

        •  They were apparently (none)
          "praying in secret", whatever that means. I was kind of shocked when my mom told me this, but I was not surprised. My godmother was into the whole "Catholics Against Kerry" thing. I emailed the church to complain but I didn't go much further than that.

          "The billboards shade the flags they wave. . ." -Bright Eyes

          by indiemcemopants on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 06:23:13 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Oh yeah and (none)
          one person, according to my mom, tried to say something about peace during the intentions once, and someone in the congregation said "Oh just shut up!" and people laughed.

          "The billboards shade the flags they wave. . ." -Bright Eyes

          by indiemcemopants on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 06:26:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sad (none)
            That's just sad, what state are you in?  If you are in Michigan, we still have a priest (Polish) in the family that could help you out.  Our Monsignor (Irish) died when I was in college.  

            Since the war, our parish has had two priests.  The first was Irish and seemed very much against the war, he moved to another parish and was replaced with a priest from South America somewhere.  I was worried at first because I've heard priests from South America are generally very conservative.  He's seems to be as liberal as the other priest was and he's a really nice man.  He's added more programs to help the poor of our parish and has concentrated on that the most.  The new priest has also been coordinating more events with neighboring parishes so I can't complain about him at all.

            His homilies were a bit dry but after I told our family priest about that, he sent some of his material down here to help the guy out.  Last Sunday, he used one of Fr. Rich's homilies that we heard last year at the family reunion (Polish side of family always starts the reunion with a mass since we are fortunate enough to have our own priest).  It got the same amount of laughs so it made the translation even through our parish priest's accent. Fr. Rich's philosophy is that if you can make your homilies entertaining that not only will attendance improve but people will look forward to that part of mass instead of treating it as naptime.

            •  Awesome. (none)
              And no, I'm in the south. Alabama. Which probably explains everything.

              "The billboards shade the flags they wave. . ." -Bright Eyes

              by indiemcemopants on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:36:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Bama (none)
                Isn't the south in general more conservative, I'm sorry.  :(  Wish I could bring you up here on Sundays or now that Fr. Rich is retired, I could tell him you need him down in Alabama.  Imagine that group's surprise if you showed up with your own priest....one that disagreed with them. They don't burn Polish priests at the stake down there, do they? :)  

                He's still busy every Sunday as he is always filling in somewhere.  I don't see the difference from before he retired except he does have more time for protests.   I called him last week to invite him for dinner because I was cooking Polish that night and he managed to squeeze us in after a baptism and a wedding.  

  •  Who is "The World Can't Wait? (4.00)
    Looked up the whois for worldcantwait.org.
    Domain ID:D106537144-LROR
    Domain Name:WORLDCANTWAIT.ORG
    Created On:06-Jun-2005 14:12:07 UTC
    Last Updated On:06-Aug-2005 04:17:25 UTC
    Expiration Date:06-Jun-2006 14:12:07 UTC
    Sponsoring Registrar:Tucows Inc. (R11-LROR)
    Status:OK
    Registrant ID:tu5dLPCfXNvOyMlS
    Registrant Name:C. Clark Kissinger
    Registrant Organization:C. Clark Kissinger
    Registrant Street1:593 Vanderbilt Ave, #224
    Registrant Street2:
    Registrant Street3:
    Registrant City:Brooklyn
    Registrant State/Province:NY
    Registrant Postal Code:11238

    Did  a google and came up with this, his website.
    http://www.dissident.info/
    He may be the organizer or at least part of the group.

    C. Clark Kissinger
    National Secretary of SDS in the early sixties
    ► Organized the first March on Washington Against the Vietnam War (1965)
    ► Worked closely with the Black Panther Party in Chicago
    ► Toured China during the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution (1972, 1975)
    ► Supported Bob Avakian's work to build a real communist party in the U.S.
    ► Was in Tehran during the 1979 seizure of the U.S. Embassy
    ► Went to Germany in 1983 to protest new U.S. nuclear missiles
    ► An initiator of No Business As Usual in 1985
    ► Was a founder of Refuse & Resist! in 1987
    ► Co-founder of the Washington, DC, abortion clinic defense
    ► Organized the first national conference against the "War on Drugs"
    ► Worked to defend prisoners of the 1992 Los Angeles Rebellion
    ► Organized national conference in 2000 to Free Mumia Abu-Jamal
    ► Contributing writer for the Revolution newspaper
    ► Served 3-month federal sentence for a speech outside the 2000 RNC
    ► Coordinator of the 2002 Not In Our Name statement of conscience
    ► Initiated 2004 demonstrations at Supreme Ct on "enemy combatant" cases
    ► An initiator of the campaign to Drive Out the Bush Regime (2005)
            ...and still at it!

    "The truth is a noble cause".
    -BOHICA

    by BOHICA on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 05:41:10 PM PST

  •  4th Grade (4.00)
    My 4th grader didn't go to school today as he had heard about "World Can't Wait" on AirAmerica Radio.  Following his example, I didn't work today either.  

    This action reminds me of the general strikes Poland used to have.  If enough people participate the strikes can be crippling to the country.

    •  I am so moved I am almost in tears. (4.00)
      When 4th graders get it (however smart yours is) we cannot fail.

      I truly believe we have reached a turning point.

      Peace be with you and your 4th grader.

      Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth. -1.75 -7.23

      by Shockwave on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 06:00:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  4th Grader (4.00)
        My 4th Grader might be unusual in that he wants to be a Dr and a Politician when he grows up.  He's an Air America junkie who streams on-line everyday after school.  He actually rushes to catch Randi Rhodes.  He got his busdriver, who was a Republican, to listen to Air America after they had some debates.  He reports she now claims to be an Independant but he's still working on her.

        At conference, I found out my son is entertaining his teacher with Bush jokes.  She said he makes her laugh but the other students don't seem to get it but it might be better that they don't (this is a red state).  

        Danny voted for Kerry last fall, he convinced his dyslexic father to vote as he offered to help him.  Dan took the morning off school and pushed all the buttons on the voting machine, including reading and deciding the initiatives then had his Dad push the final vote button so it was legal. He still crows about how he got to vote even though he's not considered old enough.  

        •  I hope I am still around to vote for him (none)
          I propose a constitutional amendment so that you can run for pres before your 30th birthday.

          Better than the one Schwarzennegger wants to let foreign born candidates run.

          Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth. -1.75 -7.23

          by Shockwave on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 10:46:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  10 now (4.00)
            He's only 10 now but he's always campaigning.  I'll let him know he has another voter. He's always quick to point out that he already gets better grades than the President and he's never failed to make the honor roll.  

            Danny is currently an elected member of his student council and is trying to get large salads (like the ones the teachers get) added to the lunch menu for students.  He's also questioning why Tyson brand chicken products are being served twice a week.  Is Mr. Tyson a Republican, he wonders? My son was also the only student running for student council as a Democrat.  They weren't never required to have a political party but he insisted on one.  Ya, he not afraid to make waves either.  We have had other politicians in the family so he might stick to it.  There are pictures of Howard Dean and General Clark taped to the door of his room so he's been quite serious about his politics hobby.  

  •  It's fucking retarded (none)
    Tell me how students walking out of their classes can "drive out the Bush regime."  I know here in Berkeley it was organized by the Communists.  

    Boy that'll make the world listen.  Students sabotaging their own education at the behest of Communists, in Berkeley!  That'll play in Peoria.  

    http://www.thelyceum.net/

    by mattgabe on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 06:46:30 PM PST

    •  Not your average teen angst (none)
      More than 1,000 students, many of them from 40 Twin Cities area high schools, protested today against the war in Iraq and military recruiters on campus.

      Did you miss that part? Their point was "Keep military recruiters out of my school. Don't give them my home phone number and address. Don't manipulate me with marketing".

      Not agreeing with that would be fucking retarded.

    •  Frankly (4.00)
      many movements that have driven unpopular governments out of office have started precisely as student protests of this sort. And in many cases communists or socialists of one stripe or another played an important role in getting things going. It may or may not play in Peoria, but it is apparently playing in Minnesota and Iowa. If you can do better, by all means get to work.

      "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

      by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:40:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I understand the power of student protest (none)
        though I think it's overplayed.  But that's not the point.  The point is that a walkout accomplishes nothing.  Get those kids to canvas.  Get those kids to register to vote when they're 18 or get them to talk to their parents.  Get those kids to run for office.  Train those kids to be activists.

        Motion for the sake of motion isn't necessarily constructive.  

        http://www.thelyceum.net/

        by mattgabe on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 10:40:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not Robots (none)
          First, I would suggest that people who participated in the walkout are now mORE likely to do those other things than they were before the walkout. These are not mutually exclusive forms of action by any means and posing them as such has the effect of stripping us of means of action.

          Second, the participants in the walkouts are not robots that you or I can give orders to. They are living thinking feeling human beings who responded to a call to action. You moan that they don't do what YOU think is most effective but don't critically examine WHY they don't. Are you organizing to make that happen? If not, why not? If so, why are they responding to this call and not yours? I would suggest that they too are concerned with being effective and are convinced that this form of action is effective. Whatever else you might say it has certainly been effective in getting us talking about larger questions of strategy, no? That has to be part of the measurement of its effectiveness in my opinion, which at any rate is not something that can be done without regard to the process by which people come into political consciousness through action.

          "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

          by Christopher Day on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 08:53:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  This is the beginning (none)
    And I will make a prediction right now. Bush will resign before his term is over. The reason will not be plame, or Iraq, or Katrina or some other scandel. It's the economy stupid. Things are about to get ugly, very ugly. While I am not happy to see this turn of events, I am pleased that it is on Jr's watch. Otherwise, it would be blamed on his successor.

    Impossible is nothing

    by DrSpike on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:10:16 PM PST

    •  A Bush Resignation (none)
      is a greater possibility than I think most people realize. A deepening set of scandals, a rapidly deteriorating situation in Iraq (maybe spilling into Saudi or Jordan), and a big electoral defeat in 06 could make it politically neccesary. BUT ONLY if WE are in the streets raising the stakes and making the country ungovernable. Otherwise they will be able to continue to the bitter end. That is why todays protest were so important and why the momentum must be maintained.

      "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories." -- Amilcar Cabral (-10.00, -9.28)

      by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 07:45:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  yeah... (none)
    "All Good" except for the "campus recruitment" part.  Going to a voluntary program on which the campus itself was founded (See Morrill Land-Grant acts) and saying "get off 'our' campus" while throwing rocks and students and trying to take down the American flag is pretty ridiculous.

    Peaceful protest is okay.  Angry protests against the troops is not okay.

  •  Say it loud and say it Clear! (none)
  •  My 2 cents... (none)
    1.  Forget about organizing any protests that do not exceed 1,000,000 people -- unless the protests are large enough and ocurr very frequently.

    2.  Create organized civil disobedience on a daily basis until things start rolling in Washington.

    3.  Consider wearing protest clothing on a regular basis that makes an undecided think about things a bit more than they would on Fox or CNN News.  (Click on my sig graphic below if you want that graphic on a shirt or what-not).

    Kudos to this student walkout!!!  All of America should be doing this right now.
  •  y'all can naysay (none)
    all you want, but once the kids get it, it will gain a life of it's own. Kids don't believe themselves to be powerless, and will stop at nothing.
    The ball is rolling, the wax is melting, and the mighty will fall.
    I believe in our kids like I believe in nothing else.
    They have incredible energy and once they turn that into personal power, they are unstoppable.
    Our Frodo is out there somewhere marching out of a school.
    Mark my words.

    I wish he'd just hurry up and get the baby eating on CNN over with.

    by azrefugee on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 06:23:12 AM PST

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