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I was just watching Ed Gillespie and Terry McAuliffe on Wolfe Blitzer's Late Edition and two ongoing GOP talking point lies are driving me bonko. And our most excellent knight in shining armour, Terry McAuliffe, let both by while responding to different BS Ed Gillespie was spewing forth. Other than that, Terry was outstanding. (As Always)

The talking point lies that the GOP has gotten away with for two years, whenever the Iraq War or Intelligence Fabrication comes up, is that "hey, the Democrats and everyone around the world had the same intelligence and made the same decision.  Then McAuliffe let him get away with it.  I like McAuliffe a great deal, and believe he is usually one of the most effective spokespeople we have, but he missed two balls in a row on this one.  

This massive deception is the main issue!  And this is an issue for Impeachment Hearings for both Cheney and Bush, not for just for the Federal Prosecutor anymore.  

The correct response was,  "Well, Hello!  The reason the Democrats and everyone else around the world had this fraudulent data and made the same faulty decision is that Bush White House falsified the intelligence and misled Congress and American People. Where are the 39 Congressmen who asked Fitzgerald to investigate this potentially criminal violation of the President's Constitutional duty to inform and update the Congress that is the legal umbrella for the State of the Union message? This deliberate misrepresentation occurred not just once, but in a broad-based, systematic two year campaign and criminal conspiracy based out of the White House and led by Dick Cheney"s and Donald Rumsfeld's Neo-Con-WHIG Cabal!

The other big lie in the Ed Gillespie, GOP talking points is that "there is no evidence that Karl Rove did anything criminally wrong" therefore, it is OK that Bush has not fired him. Also, we can't talk about it for the next two years because of an ongoing investigation "Hello!"...Bush, at first, said he would fire anyone who was INVOLVED in the leak, not just if they were indicted and executed for Treason or major felonies."  

Another, big GOP lie and logic error whizzed right by McAuliffe. He should have pounced and said right away, that without even getting into the criminal specifics of the indictment investigations, the bigger logical problem for Bush, Rove, and the White House is that either Karl Rove lied to McClellan and the President two years ago when he denied the direct questions of did he have "anything" to do with it, or the President and McClellan lied to us.

One way or another, by virtue of simple logic we see there has been a liar or liars knowingly left unchallenged in the White House for two years.   Again, no matter which side is lying, President Bush is responsible for knowingly allowing this enormous breech of integrity and decency in the White House.  And it looks to me like a violation of Bush's and Cheney constitutional obligation to keep the Congress informed of it's actions.  To lie in the fulfillment of these obligations is a felony (will someone please remind me where the Henchley 39 Congressman ask Fitzgerald to investigate memo is?  Thanks)

So either, McClellan and Bush can admit that Rove told them the truth and let Rove stay on while they resign, or Bush must say Rove lied to him and the American people, and demand his resignation.  Then Bush and McClellan must resign for allowing this blatent falsehood and lie to the American people, the Congress, and the Special Prosecutor to go unchallenged, knowingly, for two years.

Mr. President, which is it?  Who has been lying for two years Rove or You? And when are you going to take responsibility for this Breech of Integrity and Falsehood In the White House?

These should be the democratic talking points until Rove resigns. And the only questions the White House Press Core asks until they are answered.

Many of us have been debating whether we should want Rove to leave based on the premise that his continued presence is so damaging to the GOP that we should hope he stays as long as possible. (See links below)  However, I believe two factors mitigate this.  One, is that the damage to our country and the world is too great to allow ourselves to seek partisan political advantage from this.  And second, it is still not overwhelmingly clear to the public and even MSM how deeply fraudulent and corrupt the White House has become. How could Blitzer sit there and allow Gillespie to get away with this?

We apparently will need a few more resignations from Rove, Card, Hadley, Cheney, Hannah, Wormser, Rice and the rest of the WHIG cabal before the magnitude of these ongoing crimes becomes more apparent to the wider audience .  Then, once our basic position for the last four years (or is it six now) has been legitimized, at that point, I would agree this point would have some validity. If it were not for the damage to our country and the world we could say "let the rest of these buzzards, cheeseballs, and criminals stay in as long as possible to help us when back the House and Senate in 2006 and the White House in 2008."

But this is too important for us all to allow it to become a partison issue. I will be shocked, truly shocked, if I should discover anyone interjecting partisan politics into these impeachment hearings. So will the American people. This is one of the greatest national disasters to ever beset our country. We all must excercise tremendous discipline and solemnity as we go through these impeachment hearings. Or more hopefully, Bush and Cheney may look deeply within their own souls and find some small remaining, tattered shred of true courage, patriotism, and true concern for the well being of our country. If so, they will voluntarily resign.

Hopefully, before Thanksgiving so we can have a new President and Vice-President on the ground, up and running by the New Year.

How else will anyone be able to enjoy the Holiday spirit with this dark morass hanging over us? How can our children sleep at night when consumed by fear that some unpredictable crisis may emerge without our being able to count on competant and trustable leadership in the White House? No, this is no way to enter the holiday season. We should all concentrate and try to get this behind us as soon as possible. We the citizens of the country must take and exercise Machevelli's advice if our national leadership will not. As we stand before the global community and ask forgiveness, let's blame the Bush Whitehouse, fire them and then move on. If we do this quickly, the global community may very well let us get away so easily. Their other options are vastly worse. And so are ours.

And, will someone please light a fire under the butts of this current DNC and tell them to wake up and stop letting the RNC to continue to conceptually rape us and the American people in public for two more years with this outragious multilayered deceptiveness? They are not even using vasoline!  How can it be that our talking heads are so asleep at the wheel?

Well, is it not obvious?   Many of our current Democratic leadership have the same type of conflict of interest Karl Rove has now on the Machevelli Strategy.  If they come out and say this now, then anyone who is awake is going to say "Where the heck have you been for the last two years?"  and why are you saying this now?  What did you know and when did you know it? And given your sworn constitutional obligations, why didn't you know if far ealier than you claim now?   We may need a FreshTeam - FreshStart, and new blood ourselves.

Plus, admitting this now, would undermine the legitimacy of their original votes and continued support for the Iraq War.

But the simple and only way out is to say "We were misled by the Bush-Cheney lies like everyone else.  If we had been given the real intelligence, that the Bush folks had, we wouldn't have made such a horrendous and tragic blunder.

This was not a failure of intelligence and the CIA.  It was a deliberate and criminal manipulation of known false intelligence by the Republicans to take the country to War with a deliberately created and disspearsed campaign of misinformation and baldfaced lies.

By the way, that our country will now be vulnerable for International War Crimes hearings will be an additional national disgrace coming out to this.  This wasnt' just a manipulation of the American people. It has been a manipulation of the International Community and the United Nations to justify this New Radical Extremist Neo-con concept of Preemptive Unilateral War. A violation of international law and also a violation of the Geneva Conventions.  

And the International community has not been unclear about this ever.  Many of our international friends and enemies are now astonished to find Americans appear to be just now becoming incensed and indignant about this. They ask, "how could you be surprised by this?"  Look at the International blogs.  They are asking us (all Americans) in disbelief, "What?  You haven't known this all along? "If not, why?" The data has been available even publically for quite some time now. Not that there isn't much more that is worse that is still classified. When are the GOP and other stonewallers going to wake up and realize that some of their wildest and most paranoid Payback Conspiracy Theories are true. There are those in the know deep, deep, deep, within the intelligence comunity of this country and others around the world that have been covertly drip feeding selected blog sites with just enough new release of previously classified data to keep this growng exponentially for several years now.

And they are so rightly furious and disgusted at the contemptuous depths to which this Bush administration has been willing to sacrifice our national well being and the security and stability of an already perilous and destabilized world, that they are going to continue this escalating release of information until the entire Bush - Cheney - Rumsfeld Neo -con WHIG cabal has been purged from office.

Bush, Cheney, and Rove know how much deeper this unseemly disgrace goes. There is no end of material resources and future leaks to keep this thing going for as long as neccesary. So every minute and day Rove, Galen, and Black and the other highest level, so called, strategic advisors allow this tragedy to go on it becomes vastly worse for all of us. We should be asking, "have you no shame? How much farther will you allow our national security and that of the world to be damaged to cover up your own cowardly and treasonous .... I can't even continue. Oh just one more thing. Any one who thinks about this carefully for more than a few hours must realize that it is not going to stop until they are gone. Our leaders must convey to Bush, Rove, Black, Cheney, et. al that they can not possible win this Hunkerdown and Hope It All Blows Over Farce! Sun Tzu tells us, never fight a battle we could loose. They should be smart enough to anticipate that there is no way they can survive this one. But our leaders should privately remind them just to make sure. But tomorrow is another day. But, for now, tell them to "please just resign and go home and save yourselves, your families, our churches, your party, our country and the world further shame and damage from this terrible episode."

Because notice the tragic truth of the matter my friends and fellow Americans.  I say this with a heavy heart and in the nicest possible way.  This national and international disgrace was created and owned by the Bush crowd until the 2004 election.  Many of us tried to wake folks up to the fact, that this is what the Bush White House and the GOP made the election about. And for a variety of reasons I am not blaming anyone for now, we did not step up to the platea and confront this correctly. But now that we have collectively reelected the Bush group, all Americans now own this international  disgrace and violation of law. Collective Guilt.

Well we the people of the United States of America now owe the world an apology.  And if they wish to demand a War Crimes Tribunal, we are all going to have to step into the box together and take responsibility for this shameful and disgraceful affront to international law and integrity.  

This is one of the reasons this issue has made me so mad for the last six years.  And this is why the GOP talking heads and strategic advisors,  like Rich Galen, Charlie Black, and Karl Rove are not just making a career ending strategic blunder of historic proportions when they lead the White House, Bush, and the GOP to believe that this is all going to blow over in a few week if we keep Bush in Asia and on the ranch until after Thanksgiving. As they announced in this mornings New York Times.  This is a conflict of interest and lack of personal integrity on their part. For them to convince the White to play the Hunkerdown - Gradual Transition Strategy rather than Trent Lott's Fresh Team - Fresh Start Big Bang Strategy gives all of in the stratetic consulting business a black eye.

Machevelli said some 400 years ago, that when heads of state are confronted with scandals or disasters, to let the deputies announce it, get the worst out fast, and then fire or execute them and move on. In every generation since, highly placed leaders somewhere have tried to ignore this recognition of the realities of the psychodynamic feedback structure of the political world and have lost.  Nixon tried to ignore this advice and reality and stonewall and was impeached.  Reagan listened to Machevelli and survivied. Oh well, whatever...

Sorry did I mention I have strong personal feelings and some unresolved issues of my own here? Also given the semi-public nature of this forum I have to exercise a tremendous amount of reserve and decorum. Invite me out to dinner and buy me a few drinks and I will tell you what I really think. LOL

This is my intitial reaction to today's CNN Blitzer, Gillespie, McAuliffe discussion. I have to take a break for lunch before I can continue my review of the other talk shows. ********** **

So on a lighter more upbeat note, lets get back to the Cheney Impeachment or Resignation Question.  Now that it is becoming increasingly likely that Dick Cheney was right in the middle of this scandal and the central strategic mastermind as well as field commander of this operation, what do you think about his future in the White House?  I know with a 19% approval many of you want him to stay as long as possible for political purposes and the 2006 and 2008 elections.

But, putting that aside for a moment, and thinking only as Patriots, or objective scholars and observers of history:

How and When Do You Think Dick Cheney Will Leave the White House?  Resign, Be Impeached and Removed, or Survive Until End of His Term?

Oh, and also, please still visit my diaries below and help me Keep Hope Alive for a New Positive Agenda For America by getting these criminals, buzzards, cheeseballs, and low-lifes out of the White House.  Let's Restore Honor, Decency, and Integrity to the White House again.  And waiting until 2008 will not be acceptable.  And no, I am not going to sit down and shut up until we have accomplish this.  Sorry if it isn't fun. Sometimes we have to do the right thing for our country, the world, and God even if disrupts the previous agenda of the powers that be.  

Cheers and Have a Great Weekend.


President Bush Does Chimp Impressions To Cheer Up Summit of Americas Participants (Poll)

Karl Rove Resignation: Will He Stay Or Will He Go?  (Poll)

Growing GOP Chorus Calls For Rove Resignation

Why Rove Will Resign Even If Not Indicted

Three White House Resignation Strategies

Permission is hereby granted for anyone to reprint all or part of this missive with attribution and weblink. If you might be so kind as to correct spelling and grammer I would be most appreciative. I no longer have an editor or dictionary. LOL Also, please feel free to reproduce this in any way and send it to the folks that should be responding to this. Now is the Time For All Good People To Come To the Aid of Their Country and the World. Cheers HoundDog

Originally posted to HoundDog on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 12:23 PM PST.


When And How Will Dick Cheney Leave The House?

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Comment Preferences

  •  Yes (none)
    I've been going nuts about this too.

    What matters is what Rove is telling Bush now.

    Is Rove telling Bush that Matt Cooper is lying?

    Or is Rove telling Bush that Matt Coooper's testimony is true?

    If Rove is telling Bush that Matt Cooper is lying, does Bush believe him?

    Does Bush think Matt Cooper is lying and that's why he's standing by Rove?

    That is the only basis upon which he can continue to keep Rove. Rove must be telling Bush that Matt Cooper is lying.

    Why doesn't the White House demand that Matt Cooper stop lying about Karl Rove?

    The only other possibility is that Bush knows that Rove did it, and it unthinkable that Bush would retain Rove if he thought he had been involved.... (snicker)

  •  Who is lying now? (none)
    You don't mean to tell me that you actually try to keep up with it, do you?

    Kossacks: a large population of Medieval exegetes who each day grapple with the fabulistic opportunities of the early third milennium.

    by DCDemocrat on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 12:54:23 PM PST

    •  Who's On First? Frist? (Order of Succession Joke) (none)
      Hey you just thought of a potentially really funny spoof of Whose Lying Now?  Maybe a game show?  Who were those two really ancient dudes who did that baseball spoof.  Abott and Costello.

      I bet in a couple hours with the proper inducements and supportive ambience we could make up a terrific Monty Python sketch on this.

      Let's pull all the stops and get these criminals out of our White House ASAP.  I was worried last night that I may have overstepped the bounds by making fun of the President's Chimp Imitations in yesterday's diary.

      But for goodness sake this is just too heavy a subject to imagine doing this every day for the next 1000 or so days if they survive until end of term.  I gotta do something to entice some more friends who have a sense of humor and can liven up the atmosphere.  

      Bush et al have too much of the stench of corruption.  And like Deadman walking, it makes everyone so sad to the point of biting ones lip not to cry.  

      Oh well, whatever...

      Cheers, and thanks for the funny thought.  Hope you come back.  

      I am working on the concept of being able to write comments of less than 500 words so it hopefully will not be so taxing to be here.  LOL

      A non-partisan, and bi-partisan pursuit of high crimes and misdemeanors in the White House and Pentagon

      by HoundDog on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 04:48:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not commenting on an ongoing investigation (4.00)
    Oh yes, one more thing.  How long are we and the American people and the Washington Press Core going to allow this "we can't comment on an ongoing criminal investigation."  WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR COMMENTS ON A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.  WE ARE ASKING GEORGE BUSH AND HIS SPOKESPERSON, SCOTT MCCLELLAN TO COMMENT ON AN TWO YEAR ONGOING LIE COMING FROM SOMEWHERE IN THE WHITE HOUSE.  

    This cannot be tolerated for even one day.  If Bush is not able to comment or fix this by the end of the week, he should resign his office because he is unable to fulfill the duties of the office of the presidency.

    The credibility of the office of the President is absolute vital around the world on a SECOND BY SECOND basis.  We and the international community really on this integrity every moment with regard to ALL international treaties and the integrity of the enitre domestic government, the constitution, and the interity and legitimacy of the entire government.

    If Bush is unclear about this even for a moment, he needs to resign immediately.  Should the 15 former Soviet republics that have nuclear weapons escalate to DEF CON 5 because they don't know if the US president is trustable?  Do we need to spell out the thousands and thousands of ways this current state is absolutely intolerable.

    And by not intervening, after the President of the United States fails to execute his sworn oath before God to "uphold and defend the constitution of the United States of America" every single member of Congress fails to uphold their oaths.

    Hellooo!!!  People, this is no longer about what Karl Rove told Matt Cppper, or what Rove told the president.  Or what did the President and Vice President know and when did they know it.  We can deal with these issues in a more liesurely impeachment process.

    The main issue now is that without needing one shred of additional evidence everyone in the world is astonished and terrified to know there is a lier in the Office of the Presidency of our country.  We need to know immediately, I mean like tonight or tomorrow.  Certainly, before the next unpredictable international crises.  

    Is it the President or the Karl Rove.

    If it is the President he needs to leave immediately and Karl Rove can stay.

    If it is Karl Rove he needs to leave immediately.  And if the president knew Karl Rove was the lier and lied to him two years ago and every day since Both Karl and the president needs to go.

    If McClellan knew who the lier was and has lied to us he needs to leave immediatly.  I mean like this afternoon.  If he had nothing to do with the coverup then he needs to resign immediately to protect his own credibility because either the President or Karl Rove is Lying to him.  Ongoing everyday.

    And McClellan needs to resign anyway because the fact that the President of the United State would put him in the untenable position of standing up everyday in front of the Press Corp and letting this farce continue under the flimsy stonewalling tactic of "can't comment because somewhere there is an ongoing investigation of something," is not acceptable.  Where is the ongoing investigation of this outrage in the White House.  We need a new Congress.

    And where is the White House Press Corp.  They sat there for two years like moron children with they head up their ....  Everyone is now excited, how one or two are almost waking up and asking questions.

    Hellooo!  Where are your resignations for allowing this to go on for two years.  Once it was clear that the constutional system of checks and balances was corrupted by the GOP, the WH press core should have protested by standing on the WH steps and refusing to participate any longer in this affront to the American people and the world.  This was the notion of the Forth Estate.  Checks and balances on the system of checks and balances.

    It is now clear that if it had not and still would be for the Internet this corruption would have brought down our Freedoms for good.  And still might.  If this Patriot act is not modified all of us here will not be around next time something like this happens.

    Sniffing out the trail of High Crimes and Misdemeanors

    by HoundDog on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 12:55:59 PM PST

    •  Addendum (none)
      "uphold and defend the constitution of the United States of America" - and to protect it from all threats, foreign or domestic

      Either you're wit' us or a Guinness -- Brilliant!

      by Unforgiven on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 03:20:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, "uphold and defend the constitution (none)
        Exactly, Unforgiven. Exactly.

        I am glad some of you intelligent, well educated folks are finally stepping up to the plate and helping out here.  Because I am not the person who should be waving this banner.  I can't spell worth beens or say anything in less than 1000 words.  

        Could you please take this flag and trumpet so I can go have a drink and watch TV or play or something.  I am tired of this.  Am I the only one upset about this or what?  

        Where are all of these smart people with the college degrees and stuff?  Why aren't these people rushing forward to save our freedoms from these scounderals?

        Hey is this Unforgiven Handle a take off of that cool Clint Eastwood movie?  If so you should be the person leading this charge.  You probably have a better personality for it than I do.

        I get too emotional.  That Clint Eastwood fellow at really good concentration and was really persistent (Like a HoundDog but with better Image Consultants!  LOL)

        Thanks Unforgiven.  

        A non-partisan, and bi-partisan pursuit of high crimes and misdemeanors in the White House and Pentagon

        by HoundDog on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 04:59:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanx... (none)
          .. my spelling sux too, that's why my posts are short! heheh

          College degree? Just an AA in electronics. But never 'mis-underestimate' the power of Boolean logic.

          Actually I picked 'Unforgiven' from the Metallica song. But, yes, Clint is kewl.

          I don't know about others, but I'm never sure where/how to focus for maximum impact (and ADHD dosen't help). 'Specially hearing people calling in to C-SPAN in the mornings WAY drunk on kool-aid. I have no idea what might get through to them. Might as well be trying to convert them to Islam. I suppose they should be ignored since it would feel better pounding on my head with a mallet. Ther are lots of fence sitters tho - just not sure how to find & get to them.

          Take care

          Either you're wit' us or a Guinness -- Brilliant!

          by Unforgiven on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 05:50:52 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Unforgiven - Metalica (none)
            Of course, why didn't I think of that.

            I took my 15 year old son to see Metallica and Godsmack at the Tweeter center in Boston.  It was awesome.  They had those fire canon going off so big, I though our faces were going to scourch.

            Metallic played for 2 hours and 45 mintues.  They did 15 or so encore songs.

            They ended with Searching, Seek and Destroy.  Which has been playing around in my head all day today.  I don't know why.


            A non-partisan, and bi-partisan pursuit of high crimes and misdemeanors in the White House and Pentagon

            by HoundDog on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 07:13:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Mark Kilmer's Redstate Review of CNN Program (none)

    A non-partisan, and bi-partisan pursuit of high crimes and misdemeanors in the White House and Pentagon

    by HoundDog on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 01:31:34 PM PST

  •  We got some fresh meat (none)
    (We may need some a FreshTeam FreshStart and new blood ourselves.)

    Have you checked out 30SomethingDems on C-SPAN? I'm impressed with their fiestyness. Mostly younger (Freshmen) Reps. They give me hope.

    Either you're wit' us or a Guinness -- Brilliant!

    by Unforgiven on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 03:09:16 PM PST

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