Daily Kos

Split and expand the Recommended List

by skralyx

Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:32:48 PM PDT

I think the growth of Daily Kos has brought us to the point where the Recommended Diaries need to be expanded and categorized.  I believe the Recommend button has become too generic.  Eight Recommended spots are not enough.

But rather than simply making a longer list of Recommended Diaries (though that may be an interim solution because it's easier to program), I think we would benefit by having more categories, 4 by my proposal, perhaps still with 8 recommended diaries each.  

First, I'll summarize some things I've observed that I think are shortcomings.  Of course, not everyone will agree with me:

  1. Popular authors, rather than being subscribed to, are often recommended faster than anyone could possibly have actually read their diaries.  (You shouldn't vote for a bill without reading it, as we're all well aware now.)

  2. Politicians, candidates, and semi-politicians (or other famous people) get recommended automatically and leave one less spot for other diaries.

  3. Breaking news diaries are written hastily in an effort to be the first to have spotted a story.  (I've succumbed to that myself.  And I'm not proud.)  There are often duplicates.

  4. Many good diaries go away too quickly even if recommended by a fair number of people.

Now for the proposal part. I think it would be better at this point to move to a four-recommended-list format. One for Featured Authors, one for Politicians/Candidates, one for Breaking News, and one for plain ol' diaries.  It's almost like an Op-Ed page setup. You have Columnists, Guest Op-Eds, and letters to the editor (and of course, breaking news in other parts of the paper).

The Featured Authors can be the 20 or 30 that have been recommended the most times as an author. These are the diarists like Jerome a Paris, Meteor Blades, SusanHu, georgia10, etc. This gives us easy access to their stuff. That tally could presumably be kept rather easily, and the list of Featured Authors could be listed somewhere and updated continuously. This can work in one of two ways: 1) If a diary becomes Recommended, it gets placed in the Featured Authors Recommended List if that author is on the current Featured Authors list; or 2) Featured Authors get Recommended status automatically for whatever they post (still one per day!), as long as they remain on the Featured list, and the diaries appear chronologically. I'm slanting toward No. 1 because people might be less likely to recommend a worthy work if they know the author has automatic status, thus unjustly decreasing that author's recommend total.  

As for the other three categories, they can be split by readers. There would be three Recommend buttons, one generic, as we have now, one for Breaking News, and one for Politicians/Candidates. That third one is needed because there's probably no good way to recognize "Senator Russ Feingold" as a politician in an automated way. Too much room for screw-ups. The diary reader then decides which, if any, Recommend button to hit, and she/he can only choose one. Then the diaries get into the Recommended lists much as they do now.

That gives the general reader a nice categorization of different types of diaries, and it also helps good diaries from lesser-knowns get a chance to stick around a little longer if they're worthy of it.

At the very least, it accommodates the continuing growth of the site.  

I'll continue to enjoy reading and posting no matter what happens. I'm thankful that Kos started this whole thing, and that he's done a great job in managing its growth and keeping it relevant, useful, and fun. Just thought I'd share some ideas, and I'm happy to have the chance to do it here.

Tags: Daily Kos, Recommended (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 201 comments

  •  recommended (4.00 / 10)

    ;-)

    "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

    by michael1104 on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:37:45 PM PDT

    •  Hee hee hee (4.00 / 26)

      Cut it out, now :)

      by skralyx on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:41:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  RECOMMENDED!! (4.00 / 2)

      We should have another tier of diaries.

      1. Front Paged
      2. Most Recommended.
      3. Recommended.
      4. General Submissions.

      Most of us are just reading the titles and headlines. Why not promote the best 50 diaries per day, and not just the best 20? It's not like scanning the headlines takes that much time.

      God Bless Kos!

      Usually a candidate only has to run against one Party. Ned Lamont had to fight the entire CT Rep Party, and 1/3 of the CT Dem Party. No wonder he lost.

      by DeanFan84 on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:54:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I like these proposals (none / 1)

        I disagree however with giving elected officials their own Recommended List. Let them compete like the rest of us mortals. If they are consitently good they might make featured authors. But frankly most of them aren'tthat great. They get a lot of recommends because of their names, but also because they don't post too often. Giving them their own list would encourage them to do more of what they presently do: post highly calculated self-promotional pieces that usually have precious little news value.

        Sick of candidate diaries? Kasama!
        "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories" -- Amilcar Cabral

        by Christopher Day on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 05:46:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They'd still... (4.00 / 2)

          ...have to get recommended to get up there, though.  So if they write drivel, they won't be around long.  I just like the idea of having them arranged in one list so we can quickly see which ones have posted recently.

          by skralyx on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 06:16:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No (none / 1)

          I think the point was that nationally recognized figures (not just politicians but also figures like Cindy Sheehan) are going to be recommended no matter what they say. In some cases, the diaries are written by staffers. That's fine with me, but give them their own spot. It might even encourage them to write more often.

          Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

          by TerraByte on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 08:38:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Victim of Its Own Success (3.60 / 5)

        The site is now so popular that new diaries have a very small time window in which to achieve recommended "critical mass" before scrolling off the page and being lost to eternity.

        I propose giving extra time on the "new diary" list for those that have an encouraging number of recommendations, not purely based on order of entry.  I guess this implies a ranking algorithm taking the form:

        Score = C1 * Recommendations / (T - T0).

        by Gregor Samsa on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 07:06:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unintended Consequence (4.00 / 3)

          I think the problem with this it it would simply accelerate those unrecommended diaries off the list.  If you don't pick up a recommend in the first few minutes, you'd be off the new diary list and mostly out of sight.  Only if you'd expand the recent diary list would you be able to accommodate this longer lifetime without exacerbating the problem you're trying to fix.

          by cartographer on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 09:00:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I agree with all suggestions (none / 0)

      by Tom Kertes on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 03:02:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  One Point (4.00 / 29)

    I wish we would eliminate diaries from the recommended list when they have been promoted to the frontpage.  It seems kind of silly to have duplicates.

    Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you. Jean-Paul Sartre

    by Stevo on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:39:51 PM PDT

    •  Yeah... (none / 1)

      ...that does make sense.  Thanks for pointing that out.

      by skralyx on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:42:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  that always burns me up (4.00 / 3)

      the thought that something on the front page is taking up one of those coveted slot that might belong to another very well-written diary I'd enjoy reading and discussing.  Especially on days when we all get in a craze over Katrina or PlameGate or something and all the recommended diaries are about the same damn thing.

      Check out my new blog at La Vida Locavore!

      by OrangeClouds115 on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:02:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  On Katrina (4.00 / 2)

        I posted a diary about the missing coastal parishes in Louisiana.

        It was not until the next day that someone read it and thought it important enough to repost the subject and refenced my dairy.

        My dairy got did not give many comments the first day and none afterwards. But the subject spread across the country and made national news.

        There needs to be some way to bring old diaries back onto the recemmended list if they are discovered to be important as mine was.

        Dairies are off the list in as little as an hour, or less.

        Demand the Truth in America

        by EasyRider on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:44:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Good suggestion (none / 0)

      But you know what would happen.  People would see the diary disappear from the recommended list, not bother to look at the front page, and conclude that it had been "censored."

      by dtj on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:16:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not so sure (4.00 / 6)

      In my experience as an infrequently front paged diarist, the readership is pretty different on the front page and in the diaries. (Front page stories get less attention from the hard core members and more from the general public).

      European Tribune / The Oil Drum / EA2020

      by Jerome a Paris on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 02:21:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Disagree (4.00 / 3)

      The lifetime of a front page story is maybe half a day before other front page stories push it off. A diary that's recieved a couple hundred recommnendations can easily spend a day and a half on the Recommended list, and remain active long after a FP story has scrolled off.

      Two different things, and if a diary hits both, all the more power to it.

      -dms

      Having trouble finding stuff on Daily Kos? This page has some handy hints and tricks.

      by dmsilev on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 04:20:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  actually, I disagree with this one (4.00 / 2)

      When something is frontpaged it only stays visible on the top of the home page for an hour or two before being pushed down by other front page stories.  But a great diary can stay on the rec list all day--title and author visible right near the top of the front page for 24 hours or more.

      So I actually prefer the current system where once something is frontpaged it can no longer be recommended.  then it naturally falls off the rec list like any other diary that stops getting recommended.

      Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
      76 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

      by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 04:54:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes...drop 'em from one when promo'd (4.00 / 3)

      I like that idea. Drop a diary from the rec'd list if it shows on the front page.

      Great catch.

      Never, never brave me, nor my fury tempt:
        Downy wings, but wroth they beat;
      Tempest even in reason's seat.

      by GreyHawk on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 05:19:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Separate list for diaries moved to Front Page? (none / 1)

        Can more use be made of the right hand column on the page? For  

        Haven't read all the ideas yet, but, wow, on some days, a diary ain't got no chance at'all if the author isn't a known commodity, so good diaries get swept into archives.

        And I'm up to 40 diaries on my list--need to check on max I can list up front.

        And I do often come here to check on breaking news--so a listing for such items would be great. And make it easier for duplicates to be combined somehow?

        Will continue reading now.

        by jawbone on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 08:42:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  These are good ideas. (4.00 / 10)

    Yes, I see lots of people's valuable diaries go by the wayside because they slip so fast and are not written by a top attraction, a known quantity.

    by joan reports on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:40:23 PM PDT

    •  I disagree (4.00 / 6)

      To change tactics and strategies now would only bring aid and comfort to the enemy.  I'm baffled as to why this author is now joining the extreme-left-Michael-Moore wing of DailyKos and advocating what amounts to journalistic surrender.

      (this is a joke, by the way).

      "While there is a lower class, I am in it. While there is a criminal element, I am of it. While there is a soul in prison, I am not free." - Eugene Debs

      by matthewc on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 04:40:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  At the very least I'd like a separate category (4.00 / 4)

      for "new items".  I understand why people don't want to put them into the open thread because they generally will get lost in that thread.  But some days there are a lot of small, but important bits and pieces that will add up.

      A separate way of filing a "news item" would cover breaking + news and might allieviate the pressure on the more thoughtful pieces.  In fact there are days when I would love to just be able to quickly scan news items as identified by Kossacks and I think strategically speaking there is merit to that approach in terms of getting the less MSM controlled facts out.

      by inclusiveheart on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 05:49:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I meant "NewS Items"... n/t (none / 0)

        by inclusiveheart on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 05:54:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Please - categories for News, Rants & Humor (none / 0)

        I definitely agree on the News category -- it would also make a quicker check to see if a news item had already been diaried and was being discussed.

        I know a lot of folks love the rants, especially by some of the well-known posters. I also know it's very satisfying to vent ones' rage and have a lot of folks agree with you. But there are a lot of people putting good work, thought, and research into diaries that scroll off too quickly to be seen except by people who reload every few minutes, when the top spots are occupied all day just with rants.   There are times that we all want to rant, or say "fuck, yeah!" to someone else's, so I think they really should be easy to find. But they should also be easy to skip and shouldn't push everything else off.

        Some of the humor here is priceless, and it really deserves a category of its own so the best (recommended) humor can quickly be found and enjoyed. It also would help folks who are looking for news, and not humor, distinguish so they aren't frustrated when following what looks like it might be important news, only to find they've been lured into a satire.

        Such a wealth of content here on Kos -- and I think categories of recommended diaries really would make it more valuable and accessibly.

         

        America will never again be the land of the free... Until she again becomes the home of the brave.

        by Ducktape on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 10:25:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Yes! thank you (4.00 / 7)

    Expanded recommended recommended.  Longer list of recommendeds and categories would also be helpful.  

    Dems will not hold impeachment hearings while Bill is campaigning with Hillary.

    by annefrank on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:43:13 PM PDT

    •  Yep (4.00 / 2)

      something along the lines of BoomanTribune's structure would be nice, with separate categories per subject.

      'Everybody's born-again these days; if you're not born-again you're dead, you're out of touch, yours is a minority view, you lose.' Barthelme 'Nat.Sel.'

      by jorndorff on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:53:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Off topic, I know, but (none / 1)

      I love your quote.

      by D Cupples on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:28:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  List of all Recommended Diaries (4.00 / 2)

      I think many issues could be resolved by simply having a place where all diaries that have been recommend (using the same formula that currently ranks the recommended list) can be seen (obviously there would need to be some floor--there is no need to list a diary that got 1 recommend 3 days ago). Or a chance to set the number of recommended diaries you see. Currently you can set the number of recent diaries you see. Recommeded diaries could be handled the same way. If you want to see the top 20 recommended diaries you could. That way if one drops of your list before you get to reading it you could expand your number and find it without having to search for it. Also you can now have a page showing all the recent diaries. Recommended diaries could be done the same way.

      by J mid on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 08:00:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  These are great ideas (4.00 / 2)

    and would make the site more attractive.

    Historical Footnotes

    by starkravinglunaticradical on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:44:04 PM PDT

    •  And more interesting (4.00 / 3)

      While I am a great fan of probably all the "frequently recommended" there does seem to be a "barrier to entry" for lesser known diarists and posters.  

      That said, I certainly would not want to limit my access to to the leading lights of the site, as they lend vitally important continuity in perspective and in information, which allows for greater depth of analysis and discussion.   The frequently recommended have indeed become the op ed page of dailykos.  

      So, I heartily agree with the effort to provide more recommended slots, and I much prefer the idea of doing it via "categories" which will keep our star performers as accessible as they are now, and allow lesser known voices to be amplified.  Most importantly, it feels like it will give all kossacks a more meaningful vote when we click that "recommended" button, which is good for democracy too!  
       

      Reality addict - can't get enough of seeing it all clearly

      by writeout on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 09:36:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  nice ideas (4.00 / 2)

    really, very nice! recommended!

    visit www.thehungersite.com everyday to save lives

    by Stampy51 on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:51:48 PM PDT

    •  o also (4.00 / 4)

      i think users should be able to set their preferences for where they live .. and users from that area can recommend a 'local' diary .. like, i live in VA, so i would see a special VA recommended list with action diaries specific to my state... maybe it's not worth it, but could be nice.

      visit www.thehungersite.com everyday to save lives

      by Stampy51 on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:52:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, that's not bad... (none / 0)

        ...because there are some diaries of intense local interest that leave the rest of us going 'Huh?' and they get dropped without giving the interested minority a chance to get a look.

        Might be tough to program, though?  (Like I know what the hell I'm talking about in web programming!)

        by skralyx on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:59:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Doesn't the tagging feature take care of this? (none / 0)

        If you wanna see local diaries, just click on the tag for your locality.

        -Legalize Freedom!-

        by JohnnyCougar on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:50:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't really think so (none / 0)

          some of the local interest ones catch my attention and are important to me, but i don't come to the site looking for them.  E.g., diaries about discrimination based on gender or ethnicity/race are ones I always read and often comment on and recommend, but that's not what I come here for.

          "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." Plato

          by JPete on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 04:34:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  let me add (4.00 / 2)

            that calling "discrimination" a local interest is problematic, of course, but I think that it is treated here too often as - if you'll excuse this horrible pun - of minority interest.

            "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." Plato

            by JPete on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 04:35:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Besides (none / 1)

          tagging is really user friendly. I mean how many people really use it? Not many I would guess.

          The additional feature being talked about in this diary need to be on the front page where they are easy to find and use.

          An Expanded Recommended List is Probably the fastest and easiest solution.

          Look at the link at the bottom of the new diary list. It says "Recent Diary List". If a link like that was on the bottom of the recommended list that would be very helpful.

          The other problem is how fast the new diaries spin by. I have mine set to show twenty and they are still a blur. That is one reason I do not do diaries myself. A good one takes hours to craft and if you post it at the 'wrong time' of day it has the life span of about 5 minutes and a good chance of not getting recommended no matter how good it is.

          "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

          by talex on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 11:37:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I am not so sure (none / 1)

    Street Prophet was an attempt to categorize, but it gets little traffic and good religious threads still generate a better conversation right here on Daily Kos.  I think the recommend list could be expanded to more than 8 diaries, but too much categorization might serve to stiffle discussion on certain topics.  

    by eastindy on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:52:59 PM PDT

    •  But it wouldn't... (none / 0)

      ...go by topic so much as by type.  You could easily have a discussion about, say, religion, going on in all four categories.

      by skralyx on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:00:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One thing that I believe would help, (4.00 / 3)

        before we drastically change everything, would be to bump threads to the top of the unrecommend list everytime it gets a new recommend.  This would keep a lot more well written diaries in the most visible positions for a much longer period of time, the cream would rise to the top and the poorly written and unintresting diaries would sink.  

        by eastindy on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:11:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The 'unrecommend' list? (none / 0)

          Could you clarify?  I'm not quite following.  Do you mean there would be an option to do the opposite of recommending, to kill bad diaries faster?  (Quite a hit to the ego for people who get that foisted on them!)

          by skralyx on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:18:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting idea... (none / 0)

          That might actually eliminate the need for a separate Recommended Diaries section altogether, if you think about it.

          by Abou Ben Adhem on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:26:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know if I like this (none / 0)

          That is almost similar to that of Democratic Underground.  That way, even old, tired diaries would get bumped simply because somebody 3 days later decides to reccomend it.  It works better for DU because that is a discussion forum.  I don't think it would work for a blog.

          -Legalize Freedom!-

          by JohnnyCougar on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:53:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's easy... (none / 0)

            To check the creation date of a diary, which allows for a developer to implement a simple piece of code that limits how long a diary can be at the top of the recent diaries list. It's also easy to "weight" the recommends based on the age of the diary. So, say a recommend on a diary that is two days old has less "weight" than one that is 1 day old, the newer diary will take precedent, but not so much as to push the other completely off the list.

            Slap happy is a platform.

            by averageyoungman on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 07:07:06 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Also... (none / 0)

              The system already has a built in 'time period' to recommend a diary. IF a diary that is 3 days old is still relevant enough and good enough to get a recommend, then why should it not stay fresh so others can read it? There are so many people posting so MUCH here that often, good diaries are 50 entries down before anyone can spot them. The most that would happen is that a decent diary would hover on the first page of Recent diaries, and would slowly taper off, or it would become a recommended diary and have it's time in the sun. It would also let people become acquainted with better authors who may not have been here as long or as loudly as the front page crowd.

              I second (third? ninth? 70th?) the idea to move diaries that get recommended back to the top of the Recent diaries list. Or at least, a user configurable option to enable this behavior, with front page post about it.

              --------------
              Condemnant qui non intelligent.
              Economic: -6.75
              Social : -5.03

              by cognizant on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 09:55:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Tweaking the 4 Categories (none / 0)

      What drives me crazy is the competition between the various purposes of recommended diaries with limited slots. Some days I only have time to see the "hot topics", other days I am into being educated on  a subject.

      I would propose these 4 categories to be more functional:

      1. Public Figure Authors - including Government officials, candidates/parties, activists, celebrities and other accalimed experts. (maybe Hans Blix or Walter Pincus will post here..)

      2. Breaking News and Hot Topics. Everything that is in the headlines as current "news". (The House debate right now surely is there now, as is ?)

      3. Expert and In-depth analyses and presentations. Topics of Science, Religion, Education, Health, Economy and Culture, International, etc. Note- these are often closely related to "hot topics", but include more of the author's views and information than just what is current MSM news.

      4. Kos Community. Rants, Snark, Personal Stories, metajesus, pie etc.

      They are all worthy, and I'd like to see the best of the best in each category.

      With nothing to believe in the compass always points to Terrapin... - Robert Hunter

      by TaraIst on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 01:46:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This owuld be helpful--I am always afraid (none / 1)

    I'll miss a posted diary becasue ti goes away too quickly. Breakign the recommended into categories makes sure I own't msis soemoen I want to read, whiule allowing mores space for less-known writers to get seen.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 09:57:49 PM PDT

  •  Great Idea (4.00 / 3)

    And I think your suggestion on how to go about organizing all of this is excellent.

    by gobigblue on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:01:10 PM PDT

  •  Good idea (4.00 / 2)

    Why stop with categories for recommend? Let's have categories for Diaries. The creator of a Diary can put it into different categories. There could even be a farce category for those attempts at humor.

    At times of high activity, there could be a temporary category... like when everyone was writing about Fitzmas, or religion.

    Readers can choose to view ALL or select from the list.

    Remember, THEY hate us for our Freedom! The freedom for the President to do as he damn well pleases.

    by Tuba Les on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:02:56 PM PDT

    •  I figured... (none / 0)

      ...you'd have to let the writers OR the readers make the categorization choice.  It could get too complicated if writers and readers thought their diaries belonged in different categories.  If I had to choose, I'd rather leave it up to the readers, in the interest of democracy.  

      by skralyx on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:07:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yay; recommended. (4.00 / 6)

    I was just posting a comment about the case for expanding the recommended list, actually. I say this all the time, and it's nice to hear another person with some ideas on this.

    • I'd like it if we could choose to expand the recommended list, or all such lists, as we can with the recent diaries list. Stick a box at the bottom and let us pick 8, or 10, or 20, or 50, yay!
    • I think it'd be neat if we could have the items on such lists cluster together based on their similar tags. This would require a bit of programming and know-how to make it work, but I've managed to do something similar (though rudimentary) with RSS feeds--it's not so complex, really.
    • I like some of your ideas with the multiple categories as well--I'd suggest making sure that no diary appears in more than one list at a time, if you haven't mentioned that already.
    • I second the suggestion above about removing diaries from the list(s) when they get promoted to the Front Page.

    by pb on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:22:50 PM PDT

    •  Way to break down the numbers... (4.00 / 2)

      ...in your comment.  I was thinking about doing a little monitoring like that, but you've answered it pretty well for me.

      by skralyx on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:28:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  more details, if you like... (4.00 / 4)

        Feel free to add any of that to your diary, if you feel it helps. I just browsed through the Recent Diaries list and kept track of some of the dates (#307 is where I counted ~24 hours from #1):

        1. 11/17/2005 22:09:28 PST
        2. 11/17/2005 17:17:24 PST
        3. 11/17/2005 14:13:48 PST
        4. 11/17/2005 11:29:06 PST
        5. 11/17/2005 09:17:48 PST
        6. 11/17/2005 07:07:14 PST
        7. 11/16/2005 23:36:50 PST
        8. 11/16/2005 22:11:51 PST
        9. 11/16/2005 18:43:24 PST

        by pb on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:33:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  These are all great diaries (4.00 / 5)

    There are some important subjects that scroll off the page so fast because they were posted by someone other than one of the superstars.

    Judging from one of my recent diaries which had 19 recs and still scrolled off the page in less than 2 hours the lifetime is far too short.

    I'm Ron Shepston and I'm not done yet. There's much left to accomplish.

    by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:27:05 PM PDT

    •  i agree (4.00 / 7)

      although under the current system, when I get one on the list, I'm happy all day like it's my birthday.

      There've been times where I put something up that I'd genuinely like to discuss and off the page it goes in no time.

      It's sad too because the other forums I have to discuss these things just aren't equal to dKos.  There is:

      1. My family (who may or may not want to talk about it.  My mom is a lefty but doesn't follow it.  Dad's a lefty but far more moderate than me and watches the MSM for news...thinks I wear a tinfoil hat.  Brother is a lefty but cynical and pissed and he'd rather be self medicating with herbal remedies a la Ben Masel than discussing solutions to the mess our country is in)
      2. My friends (usually this one doesn't happen.  I will get a polite smile and nod from most of them, or an out-and-out fight from a few)
      3. LiveJournal (which tends to be less educated about politics & issues in my opinion).

      Check out my new blog at La Vida Locavore!

      by OrangeClouds115 on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:07:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'd agree that change is needed (4.00 / 2)

    I'd agree that change is needed due to the growth of the site and I think you correctly identified the problems.

    I'd also add that the max number of diaries you can display should be expanded.  At the moment the maximum is 50 "recent diaries" before your diary scrolls off into oblivion.  This usually takes an hour or two under the best circumstances, less under worse ones.  That could happen because 15 different people think they are the first to report on some news item and don't delete their diaries or because you happened to pick the wrong time of day to post.  If the goal is to give people a better chance to find and recommend good diaries then this would need to be changed as well.

    Netroots Nation employs people-powered customer service.

    by terminal3 on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:28:09 PM PDT

  •  Here Here! (none / 1)

    It works fine over at Boomantribune.

    http://www.wrapupafrica.com A skirt. A skill. A life saved.

    by librarianman on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:31:35 PM PDT

  •  Simpler Short Term Solution (4.00 / 9)

    How about just adding a [More...] button to the bottom of the Recommended List?  It would take you to a page listing the top {20,50,100,whatever} diaries.

    Should be easy enough to implement, as theres a database somewhere with each diary's ranking already.

    -----------------------
    Turning Texas Blue

    by spin2cool on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:32:47 PM PDT

    •  Yes. PLEASE. (4.00 / 2)

      I constantly find I want to recommend something I saw yesterday or a few days ago to people, or I want to go back and see what were those things I didn't have time to read but sounded Important last night...

      Besides, it would be great to have a history of diaries on the recommended list, that you could scroll back through maybe 12 hours or so at a time to see snapshots of the rec list.

      Cry, the beloved country, these things are not yet at an end. - Alan Paton

      by rcbowman on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:53:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  use the open threads (none / 1)

        when I've been away from the site for a while I go back though the open threads, which often start with a snapshot of what was on the rec list at the time the open thread was posted.

        Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
        76 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

        by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 04:44:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Although I don't use it enough (none / 0)

        I think you can use your hotlist for this purpose.

        Traditional Media Marching Orders effective Aug 1, 2008 - Nov 4, 2008: IOKIYAJM

        by justmy2 on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 07:05:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  At one point (none / 1)

      I suggested a simple implementation of this: Have the software automatically add a "Recommended Diary" tag to any diary that makes the list. Then, a complete list could be generated by simply going to that tag.

      I tried adding this tag to a bunch of diaries by hand, but got into a remove-tag war with someone and gave it up.

      Maybe this could be revisisted.

      -dms

      Having trouble finding stuff on Daily Kos? This page has some handy hints and tricks.

      by dmsilev on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 04:24:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am guilty (none / 0)

        Sorry, I've done the "remove war" stuff with recommend tags - just does not seem right to use a tag called "recommend" - I see the tags as a topic searching tool...

        Perhaps I'm wrong. Hope I didn't kill one of your tags. :-)

        ARB

        A Rational Being typed this.

        by A Rational Being on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 04:37:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think the problem with my approach (none / 0)

          is that you can't (yet) search on two or more tags simultaneously. The idea was that you could enter a search term of (for example) "Harriet Miers" AND "Recommended Diaries" to see all of the highly-rated diaries on Miers.

          Sadly, the software doesn't support that. Maybe in the next upgrade cycle.

          -dms

          Having trouble finding stuff on Daily Kos? This page has some handy hints and tricks.

          by dmsilev on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 05:59:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  ya know, if a diary is well written (3.66 / 3)

    then it is the responsibility of the writer to post it elsewhere also.  

    it's no one's fault or to no one's credit, other than the author's, if a diary does or does not reach the audience it deserves.

    i post on two other blogs, including my own.

    my words are recorded for posterity (which, in blogtopia, is about a day (and yes, i did coin that phrase, thanks for asking!)).

    tis a sorry, sorry writer that doesn't make sure his/her words get to their audience.

    skippy the bush kangaroo: aware of all internet traditions since 2002!

    by skippy on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:37:27 PM PDT

  •  Increase the Reco List to 15-20 Diaries (4.00 / 2)

    the Reco List is like skimming the headlines.

    It barely takes a minute, and it helps to direct your attention to the front page news.

    Frankly, I'd like to see three tiers of Diaries.

    Most Recommended.
    Recommended.
    Any and All Submissions.

    Usually a candidate only has to run against one Party. Ned Lamont had to fight the entire CT Rep Party, and 1/3 of the CT Dem Party. No wonder he lost.

    by DeanFan84 on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:52:09 PM PDT

  •  I agree with your suggestions. n/t (none / 1)

    by tabbycat in tenn on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:56:05 PM PDT

  •  I would like to add a category. (4.00 / 9)

                                                Complete Crap

    It would require a second button designated as "Complete Crap" which would then detonate a small white phosphorus explosive within the diary, obliterating it from the face of Daily Kos.

    Sure, go ahead and call it censorship if you want.  I call it "entering Falluja."

    by Bob Johnson on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 10:59:21 PM PDT

  •  wow (4.00 / 2)

    are you saying I don't have to set my alarm for 6am to have a shot at getting on the list?

    Check out my new blog at La Vida Locavore!

    by OrangeClouds115 on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:00:51 PM PDT

  •  The Entire Spectrum of Human Thought (none / 0)

    at our disposal, and we categorize by urgency and popularity?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:10:16 PM PDT

  •  I Recommended (none / 1)

    I recommended because its an intriguing idea but you need to add a poll.

    I would say 'leave it as it is, but maybe make it a top twelve'.

    In another forum we used to rig the system by emailing our little group with the url and having them vote us up.  I didn't like doing it, felt dirty somehow, but we were all part of the clique.

    I thought I hated cliques until I became part of one, I guess.  I would not do that with dkos, btw.  It is a rigging of the system.  Cross-posting seems also somehow scammish, ya think?

    -6.88, -3.44

    by Bluesee on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:24:28 PM PDT

  •  An entire day's worth (4.00 / 6)

    What I'd like is a separate page which would list all the reccomended diarys for at least an entire day.  Perhaps they could be listed with some statistics like when they entered the reccomended list and when they fell off, number of reccomends and so forth.  

    I usually check Daily Kos in the evenings, and on busy news days I'm sure that there are diarys that have appeared and vanished by the time I look for them.  

    Recreational thinking. We should do more of it.

    by cevad on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:28:31 PM PDT

  •  Good idea, but... (none / 1)


    First, I'm all for SOME type of categorization that lets us qualify our recommendations.

    But I've seen this suggested over and over and over again. It's never been adopted. I haven't paid enough attention to know why, exactly, but it doesn't appear to be on Kos' agenda.

    "Almost every desire a poor man has is a punishable offense." - Louis Ferdinand Celine

    by goneblank on Thu Nov 17, 2005 at 11:50:11 PM PDT

  •  I'm not so sure about a 'celebrities' section... (none / 1)

    Sometimes we go for days or weeks without a diary from a politician or candidate -- if there were permanent slots for them, we'd sometimes end up with stale diaries taking up space. And on the other extreme, what if half a dozen politicians posted on something at the same time? The first ones would get bumped off before anyone had a chance to read them.

    I think that, rather than having a set number of sections and slots, you could use a weighted algorithm that would do much the same thing without being so rigid. For instance, instead of a separate "Breaking News" section, make it so diaries with "BREAKING:" in the title can make it to the Recommended List with fewer recommends, but they scroll down the Recent List faster, and don't stay on the Rec. List as long.

    Also, you could weight diaries based on their tags to reduce repeat diaries -- make it harder for a diary to get on the list if it's got a lot of the same tags as other currently-recommended diaries.

    by Abou Ben Adhem on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:20:52 AM PDT

    •  On the other hand (none / 0)

      A section for just celebrities/politicians might encourage more celebrities/politicians to post here because they know their stuff will be seen very easily.

      Keeping Reality in Sight

      by kisler1224 on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 06:20:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How about a retention time variable (none / 0)

      24 hours for recommended diaries
      48 hours for celeb diaries

      Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

      by TerraByte on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 08:49:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Or, to be more flexible (none / 0)

        the length of time a diary stays on the list could vary depending on how many previous recommended diaries that diarist has had.

        I'm not sure, though, whether the diarist is arguing that celebrity diaries are getting too little attention, or too much...

        by Abou Ben Adhem on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 11:16:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Too Much (none / 0)

          My understanding of the diary is that it's hard for some writers to make the recommended list because:
          • Diaries by Celebs and Popular writers (those who have built up a readership by writing well and being here a long time) automatically get recommended

          • Breaking diaries, rant-type diaries, and simple-minded diaries clog the recent list so longer analysis-type diaries move off the recent list too fast to be recommended.

          So, keeping diaries by popular writers on the recent list longer exacerbates the problem. The proposal was to have separate categories for these types diaries so that writers in the general pool of diarists have a better chance to be read and recommended.

          Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

          by TerraByte on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 11:53:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Neither, really... (none / 0)

          ...I don't think it's as either-or as that.  I'm just looking for a way to distinguish interests in diaries that seem to arise for different fundamental reasons.  Not trying to counter them, but rather to accept them and work with them.

          by skralyx on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:06:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Are you just suggesting visual segregation, then? (none / 0)

            Or actually changing the mechanics of how easily these diaries get listed, and how long they stay listed for?

            by Abou Ben Adhem on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:18:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, again... (none / 0)

              ...there are aspects of both.  I think we have some broad agreement that in SOME form, the growth of the site simply warrants a bit more space in the Recommended List.  But the mechanics of how to actually implement that are certainly a topic for debate.  Some like the simple expansion (just a longer list), some like categories (as I do), etc.  I personally WOULD like to see some visual segregation.  I was going to put that into my diary, but I haven't gotten the table thing down yet.  But you'd see perhaps four columns, one with "Blah Blah Blah" by Jerome a Paris; "Blah Blah Blah" by Sharon Jumper, etc. - the Featured Authors.  Then the other three columns would be politicians, news, and general.

              I don't know if it would be best to have a link that takes you to a layout like this or to try to get it all onto the front page, maybe by decreasing the font size or something.

              by skralyx on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:43:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What about icons instead of sections? (none / 0)

                What if diaries had icons indicating if the diarist was an elected official, a candidate, a popular diarist, etc., and if the diary was breaking news, analysis, or humor? (This could all be determined by the diary's tags.)

                An advantage would be that diaries could be easily recognized as such while still in the recent list, before they reached the recommended list(s). And we wouldn't have to have slots reserved for diaries that may not exist on any given day -- or have visual space used up by the title bars of four or more sections...

                by Abou Ben Adhem on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 01:17:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  You Forgot (none / 1)

    Profanity!!!

    but i think your ideas are sound...

    and that leads me to...
    Sound File Diaries? Kos-pods?

    if only i had  Harry Shearer's voice.

    (-6.88, -8.31)--

    by binFranklin on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:32:12 AM PDT

  •  Bravo--I like this idea (none / 1)

    we need more than eight diaries--if for no other reason than that a quality diary that DOES make the list often doesn't stay there for more than 4 or 5 hours these days...

    Head to Heading Left, BlogTalkRadio's progressive radio site!

    by thereisnospoon on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:32:46 AM PDT

  •  additional suggestions (4.00 / 4)

    1st suggestion: I know how to see a list of all the comments I have rated, but there seems not to be anything that would allow me to see a list of all the diaries I have recommended. This would be fun and convenient. There are many times I am struggling to remember some dairy I had really liked and that I know I've recommended but I can't quite remember enough details about to access it.  This could be in the form of an additional tab entitled "recommendations" in the user page (perhaps located between "ratings" and "subscription").

    2rd suggestion: Start a suggestion box where we could make just these sorts of suggestions. It would be nice if other people's suggestions could be accessed and commented upon as well.

    3rd suggestion: Add a link on the home page for reporting bugs.  I know that this is an option within "contact us" link, but it might be useful to make it more prominent.

    4th suggestion: [this basically mirrors one of the comments above] Why not have a link at the bottom of the recommended diaries pane saying "theres more..." and linking to previous recommended diaries in chronological order. Sometimes I have been away for a few days and I want to see what the most important diaries were during the period I was gone. Also, sometimes I have been reading a recommended and had to run out the door for something. When I get back, it's gone and is no longer in the 50 most recent. If I can't recal some phrase or who the diarist was I can't get back to it with ease.

    Have you read the The Democrats' Da Vinci Code?

    by Nate Roberts on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:37:36 AM PDT

    •  2nd suggestion for a "Clink for more rec'd (none / 0)

      diaries."

      Excellent idea.

      Don't know how difficult to implement, how much storage space it takes, broadband, etc. But sounds really good.

      by jawbone on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 08:55:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Existing solutions-- (none / 1)

      You could get the same effect as #1 if you hotlisted diaries as you recommended them. That might also be the easiest way of implementing your suggestion -- just have a user preference you could set so the Recommend button simultaneously added the diary to your hotlist.

      #2 (and perhaps #3) are already implemented, in effect, via the tag feature: just tag your diary with the site improvement tag.

      #4 is basically being done by jotter as a series of separate diaries.

      by Abou Ben Adhem on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 11:36:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good ideas, but (none / 1)

    one concern is that it may make the site format too messy/crowded.

    Also, having only one rec list does help to filter out the big stories, though I agree that many important diaries go unnoticed.  

    by diana04 on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 12:48:40 AM PDT

  •  I think 4 lists will be too messy. (none / 1)

    Perhaps expanding the list to 10 is a good idea either way.  The only logical division I see that would be easily discriminable and practical is the one between "breaking news" and commentary/punditry.  There is a clear division between diaries that are meant to inform people of new news and ones that are to discuss not so new matters of the political realm.

    This way, the first diary to say "BREAKING" will not kick a good discussion over the direction of Democratic policy off the list.  Posters could easily discern if their diary was breaking news or not.  We should have 10 reccomended diaries for each list.  Politicians post too infrequently to have their own category.  And any other category would not generate enough interest or be divergent enough from the two I listed to have its own "reccomended" list.

    -Legalize Freedom!-

    by JohnnyCougar on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 01:01:12 AM PDT

  •  Interesting and simple fix (4.00 / 2)

    I am not sure I entirely agree with it overall, but I think it could present an interim solution, or at least a starting point for further growth.

    I suggested that there be a form of peer review last week and got a HUGE number of excellent suggestions (along with a lot of vitriolic criticisms)...

    I am currently working that experience into a follow-up diary, and I will include some of what you suggested, with your permission, because it represents a simple, practical end-member in a vast array of possibilities.

    One thing that I think we should, as a community, do is to clearly identify what we see as fundamental problems, lay out WHY they are problems, provide a rationale, and then, perhaps, coming up with simple, practical, low risk solutions will be made easier??

    For example:

    Problem number ONE in my book is sheer volume. The rate of posting and the number of diaries posted guarantees that a significant fraction of all diaries are practically unread.

    Problem number two is repeat diaries.

    Problem number three is "breaking" diaries that are one line plus a link.

    Problem number four MAY BE self-selected groups gaming the system, however Jotter recently did some stellar research suggesting that this is not actually the case...more work on it is forthcoming.

    Problem number five arises out of angst generated by the first four problems...namely the proliferation of "meta diaries" that take up valuable real estate with navel gazing and moaning..

    Take a look at politicalcortex.com.

    They use a three-track parallel system: 1. is "breaking news" one liners. 2. is "free-for all" general submissions exactly like our current diary system, and 3. is a "peer review" queue system that takes more time and effort with the payoff being a longer-lasting, highly ranked and highly visible diary that sticks around longer and gets read by more folks.

    Good diary, good suggestion.

    The only way to ensure a free press is to own one

    by RedDan on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 01:03:06 AM PDT

    •  Dan... (none / 0)

      I wanted to reply specifically to item four you mentioned above.

      I don't know if I would call it "gaming the system", but there are in fact a handful of Yahoo groups that have been set up - C&J Cafe, Texas Kos and others - where members will send an email to the group to alert them of new diaries they may have written.

      This is hardly an automatic recommend, but it is a way to get your work out there to those you have become friends with. I know personally that I read many of the diaries that are written by the members of the group I am in, but never recommend solely on the fact that the writer is a member of the group.

      With hundreds of diaries posted daily, is it really wrong to try to get more exposure for your efforts?

      One final thing, these groups - at least the C&J Cafe - are about far more than whoring diaries, just ask the people who are involved.

      Also, they are not closed communities, anyone can join...

      "America, why are your libraries full of tears?" Allen Ginsberg. My poetry: the American nightmare

      by the white trash poet on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 06:30:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I liked your suggestion... (none / 0)

      ...from that earlier diary that everyone would have to review four diaries before posting their own.  That was an interesting concept.  That way, you'd have to be a little more vested in the site rather than just being able to dump something in.  Could be a way to trim up some of the fat.

      by skralyx on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 06:38:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What about a breaking news section on the left? (none / 0)

      Really, sometimes it seems no one has anything about some action in Congress but right here.

      Keeping all the "breakings" together would be a good way to eliminate dupes--and some means of combining duplicates would be good, as one may have more info than other and would be waste to lose.

      Can this be done?

      by jawbone on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 08:58:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Great ideas (none / 0)

    If DK is to remain viable and useful as its membership increases and similar blogs grow in prominence, quality and capability, it's going to have to evolve along such lines, and I'm sure that it will do so, reasonably soon. Otherwise, it will become too big, cumbersome and unwieldy, for the reasons discussed here.

    Like many people I have lots of ideas for how DK can be enhanced, but I'll defer to those who've been around here a lot longer than me for now and keep them to myself. Suffice it to say that I like a lot of these ideas, and am sure that many of them will be implemented in one form or another.

    I seem to recall Kos making a short post recently about a number of ideas he has for evolving the site, and that he hoped to implement some of them soon. I can't wait, as we really do need to move onto the next iteration of DK.

    Sic transit gloria mundi - ancient Roman proverb

    by kovie on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 01:21:57 AM PDT

  •  Use of Both Number of Comments and Recommends (4.00 / 3)

    After reading skralyx's diary and the first 20-26 comments, I wrote the following thoughts. Some of the comments added after I stopped reading appear to overlap with some of mine. Wish I had time to edit and give recognition, but I've must stop now.

    It seems to me that there are two key things that indicate reader interest in specific diaries: (1) number of recommends and (2)number of comments. I am wondering if a system that takes both of these into consideration could help meet the needs outlined by skralyx. As everyone reading this likely knows, the current system uses only the number of recommends.  

    One way that both recommends and comments could be taken into consideration is to add an addition category to the current two, producing: Recommended Diaries, High Discussion Diaries, and Recent Diaries.

    The Recommended Diaries category could be like it is now, except with a greater number of diaries (as suggested by skralyx) and with deletion of those diaries that have been promoted to the front page (as suggested by Stevo). At the bottom of this category could be a link to view a list of all recent Recommended Diaries (OK, I will take time to recognize that spin2cool has already suggested this!). Given this link (and one other possibility which is discussed below), perhaps the number of diaries in this category need not be greater than 10 or so, which will leave more room for other categories.

    High Discussion Diaries could be those diaries that have received at least 10 comments (just a suggestion - not sure about the best number). Each time a High Discussion Diary receives a new comment, it is bumped to the top of this category. When it stops receiving comments, it slides off this list. This procedure could allow the high discussion diaries to receive more exposure and could give greater opportunity for those good diaries by lesser known authors to make it to the recommended list. This category also might keep Breaking diaries up longer and help reduce duplication (because they are the current Hot Topic), but I am not sure about this and would appreciate any thoughts. Diaries that are promoted to Recommended or front page could be deleted from this category. At the bottom of this category could be a link to a list of all recent High Discussion Diaries. By the way, I'm not too fond of the term High Discussion Diaries - too looong. Better title suggestion?

    The Recent Diaries category could be like it is now - diaries slide off as more recent diaries replace them. And people can determine the length of the list that shows on their front dKos pages, as now. And of course, the link to the list of all recent diaries would be kept.

    One Other Possibility - Lists of Recommended and High Discussion Diaries with Their Respective Introductions

    On the front page of dKos, in the upper righthand corner is the word Diaries. Click on this link and you get a list of Recent Diaries, each with its Introduction. I use this link all the time and wish, wish, wish for an identical link for the Recommended Diaries. So one other possibility is to add three links, one for each of the three catergories. Actually I would love a link to a list of Recommended Diaries with Their Respective Introductions even if no other changes are made on the current front page.

    Just some thoughts on something that might work. Inspired by skralyx, but don't blame skralyx if you don't like my comments.

    by Jann on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 01:22:14 AM PDT

  •  Right now... (4.00 / 2)

    ...the artists (general term...not just referring to visual arts) don't have much of a chance against the onslaught of breaking stories.  In fact, we mostly get criticized for taking up "important diary space" by people who haven't even taken the time to recognize that the art is our way of participating in the debates and that it often takes more than 30 seconds to absorb the impact the artist intended.

    Makes us feel unwanted, unloved, unwelcome.

    Robyn

    Teacher's Lounge: Out of Habit is open

    by rserven on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 01:31:26 AM PDT

  •  Best (none / 0)

    This is probably the best "categorization" suggestion I've ever seen. Most are patently unworkable (ie, would require far too much co-operation and time from individual users) or would require insane amounts of programming.

    This one actually addresses real problems in a pretty elegant way. Ideally, each of the 4 reco boxes could be added or removed depending on each user's personal settings.

    Swing State Project: Campaign & Election News

    by DavidNYC on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 02:19:25 AM PDT

  •  A button to review last 100 diaries or so (4.00 / 2)

    that have scrolled off the page would be nice. It could be like in the comments or hidden comments lists.

    POW qualifies to run a war or a country like being locked in a basement qualifies to design and build basements for high rises. me

    by maybeeso in michigan on Fri Nov 18, 2005 at 02:52:30 AM PDT

  •  This proposal is too complicated (none / 1)

    At Newsfare you can look at an example of a longer list of recommended posts from the Indy Weblogs group. Scroll down and look in the left column for the heading "Recommended Indy Posts."

    Since Newsfare's readership is smaller than Daily Kos's, we show every post which has been recommended by anyone. Also we show all unrecommended posts from the prior four-hour period.

    For Daily Kos, I suggest presenting a larger (reader-adjustable) number of recommended diaries, followed by a larger (as now, reader-adjustable) number of unrecommended diaries. The recommended diaries should not be redisplayed in the unrecommended list, saving a bit o