Your Education Ideas, Thank You

I launched the Heartland PAC website last August.  The goal of the site and the organization is to gain majority status by electing governors and other down-ballot candidates.

This cannot happen unless we offer solutions to issues people care about. Bold new ideas can make the difference for those who want to ensure Democrats win on Election Day.    

To begin offering solutions both tested and new, we started the first in a series of single topic discussions through our website, offline, and with other communities like Daily Kos.  The first topic was education.

Together, we gathered hundreds of ideas that spanned a broad spectrum of topics and come from some of the most knowledgeable people, including teachers, governors, parents, policy experts, students, and administrators.

On, Wednesday, November 30, we will produce the final compilation and synthesis of these ideas and send it to Democratic governors, governors-elect, and gubernatorial candidates across the country.

This has been a great community-building experience.  Through other communities like DailyKos.com, we've connected an insightful and passionate group of individuals on the topic of education.

But we aren't done yet. And I believe we have an opportunity to use the power of these communities, as you have done here, at Heartland PAC, and elsewhere on the Internet.

It's easy to comment and lament without ever defining the solution, but together many of you joined in a commitment to offer solutions.

The education discussion has been our first attempt to create an online discussion that connects people around an issue, and I am inspired by the quality of ideas.

So please visit the Heartland PAC community discussion and add any final thoughts by Wednesday, November, 30th.

Here are the links to where you can review and add your comments:

Early Education
Length of the School Year
Length of School Day
Block Scheduling
K-12 Education
School Overcrowding/Construction
Curriculum
Testing
Teacher Quality
Violence in Schools
School Administration
Parental Involvement
Higher Education
Global Competition

As we close this discussion, another begins.  Thanks to an idea from one of our own diarists on the Heartland PAC community blog, we have begun an effort to help define and explain what the Democratic Party stands for -- in ten words or less.

I know this community has a lot of ideas on the Democratic Party and I hope you will take the time to submit your own ten words:

www.heartlandpac.org/tenwords

I hope you have a happy Thanksgiving.

•  This is obvious--lower classroom sizes.

  highly recommend this diary.

  by Natalie on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:41:16 PM PDT

  •  I saw the diary title...

    ...and clicked in to say exactly the same thing.  It's been proven over and over again that kids do better in smaller classes.  You skip that, and your results aren't going to be what they could be.  Period.

    by Land of Enchantment on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:08:44 PM PDT

    •  Well,

      this might be true and it might not.  All the research that points to benefits of smaller classes is counfounded by other things that we haven't looked at.

      I think the one thing we do know works has to do with the quality of teachers in the classroom.

      I'm not, by what follows here, advocating anything; I'm just sayin' :

      Because women now (increasingly for the past 30 years or so) have more career opportunities open to them than they had in the past, and because teacher wages suck and teaching gets no respect (but making money does), most women who are competent are going for jobs that pay better.  Of course there are some competent people who opt for the mission and vocation of teaching, but in general education has suffered greatly because compensation for teachers has not proved itself attractive to many.

      So we wind up with people who have no business in classroom (except on the receiving end).  I know: I teach teachers and I'm glad I don't have kids.

      So to my mind, far more important than small classes (which are good, no doubt), is making compensation for teachers commensurate with the committment they make to our children.  It's hard, long hours, and gets no respect from people.

      by Marc in KS on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:35:57 PM PDT

      •  If it were true...

        ...that smaller class sizes equate to greater student achievement, Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese and Singaporean students would be among the lowest achievers in the world since they often belong to classes of ~50 students.  

        The reason students in those countries perform so well is that they come from societies where education is valued above all else -- period.  If we want our students to do better, we need a complete paradigm shift away from the rampant anti-intellectual redneckism that plagues our society.

        by ChuckLin on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:42:49 PM PDT

      •  regulation changes

        I'm a pschotherapist and I work with lots of adolescents. One of the things I've noticed is that the kids who go to private schools are consistently happier with their teachers than kids in public schools.  This is interesting, since private schools don't necessarily require a traditional degree in education (yes, I realize they also often have smaller classes).  I wonder if relaxing the regulations in some ways would improve the quality of teachers in the classroom.  I am an example of someone who might teach in a public school if the regs were relaxed.  I started out an education major way back in my twenties (I'm now 43).  I transferred just shy of completing the student teaching requirements, completed a BA in creative writing, went on for an MSW, and now I'm just finishing up an MFA in creative writing.  I'm great with adolescents in the therapy room and I love them.  I have lots of classroom experience in community colleges.  I know how to write a lesson plan and I know how to manage a classroom of adolescents (those 18 year old community college students are still adolescents).  I'm seriously considering applying to private schools - I figure I could probably teach English (MFA) and health with my MSW.  In addition, I have a lot of skills in working with adolescents from my years in the psychotherapy office that someone who has only taught and done nothing else might lack. I once even took an insturctional design class in which I designed a plan for teaching English teachers to recognize and refer kids with eating disorders (figured English teachers would be most likely to hear about those kinds of problems).   I'm not about to go back for a masters in education at this point, so I'll never be able to teach in the public schools.  I wonder how many other non-traditional potential teachers are out there?  

        by Ramelle on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 04:02:48 PM PDT

        •  Lots

          Lots and lots.

          Some of the best ones are retired military. They're used to dealing with adolescents too (all those 17-18 yr olds), they know how to lead, they don't need tons of money (that military pension makes up the difference) and they want to be there.

          However, they stopped the program that got them the certification that for many of them was the only thing they needed to start teaching.

          Your (stupid) govt at work.

          by mmacdDE on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 05:17:53 PM PDT

        •  I don't know where you live...

          But I wouldn't write off teaching in a public school system so quickly.  Most states have developed or are developing alternative certification programs.  It's being driven from the federal level by a bunch of (mainly) conservatives who think content knowledge is the be-all and end-all of education and things like classroom management, child development, and educational philosophy is just a lot of (liberal and unionist) fluff.

          A lot of educators don't like the programs because they don't believe they give prospective teachers sufficient preparation for dealing with the non-content aspects of classroom teaching, and apparently the alt-cert teachers leave the profession in far higher numbers than traditionally-trained teachers, which would seem to bear out their concerns.  With the background you say you have, however, you would seem to me, from my untrained perspective at least, to be an ideal candidate, having almost been there once before.

          Although I'd hate to see you do anything that might lead some conservative to think he was right about something...

          by dsteffen on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 06:21:09 PM PDT

    •  My classes were never less than 45 kids

      and topped out a 65 in 4th grade. I was beaten black and blue, living in terror of teachers who seemed to actually hate children. I am very highly educated, love to read and write. I have a PhD in Biochemistry. I am a Neurobiologist in San Francisco. How di I survive the mistreatment I suffered for 12 years? My parents valued learning. Everyone around me valued learning. So I did too. The point of this post is that education is not like filling pots with water. Children will only become educated if it is valued in the home. Parents who do not read raise illiterate children generally. Parents who do not push their children to excel raise poor performers. Any strategy focused on improving schools without drawing parents into the fight for their children's futures is doomed. That is a message that must be drummed into parents, not teachers. Politicians do not want to be the ones to tell parents that they are failing their children by not insisting on diligence, discipline and hard work. I see kids at every social level, and it is easy to spot the kids who will succeed at school - I look at the parents. Attitude is what counts, not computers in the library.

      by Batfish on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:52:16 PM PDT

      •  When society decides it really wants

        a world-class education, then society will make sure  it happens.  Imagine what would happen if we poured the war in Iraq money into recruiting, training and retaining the best and the brightest for our classrooms.  Surely we would end up with more than the 800 independent Iraqis (saw that on the front page a couple days ago, would like to link but the search engine won't stop searching).

        by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:20:30 PM PDT

      •  Yes. And stability

        at least to some extent.

        When my daughter graduated high school, she and her friends decided they didn't want a big graduation party, they wanted a nice, family dinner for all of them AND their families. So we got a private room at one of the better restaurants in town, had a big, big cake (I made the cake), and had a lovely, sit down dinner with all of us.

        It was very interesting. My daughter's friends are a mini UN - military areas tend to be like that. There were some common elements though. Very, very few divorces. Very, very stable families. And ALL of us took education seriously, and had high expectations for our kids. We EXPECTED them to work hard, get good grades, and they did.

        Kids tend to fulfill their parents expectations. Whether they're good or bad expectations is another story.

        by mmacdDE on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 05:27:07 PM PDT

      •  I am a physicist in San Francisco

        but my parents didn't give much of a damn about my education. My teachers were pretty good, but my grades were mediocre.

        What was decisive in my case was that I was a voracious reader. Much of my character and attitudes were formed by the authors I read, rather than my parents.

        When I hit my senior year in high school it seemed time to start paying attention. Straight A's (mostly) followed through college.

        You can't change parents overnight into caring, motivated, education-valuing paragons if they aren't that way already. What you can do is provide other sources of positive influence.

        It might be a nice idea if the culture in the US actually valued kids who evidence intelligence, rather than calling them (us) nerds etc. Just a thought.

        Actually funding education might also not be a bad idea.

        by MarkInSanFran on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 05:53:55 PM PDT

•  End NCLB.

  by CarterDulka on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:42:29 PM PDT

  •  End NCLB ...

    But what do we put in its place?

    by kim777 on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:44:03 PM PDT

    •  elect Dems to put forth intelligent proposal

      by concerned on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:47:43 PM PDT

      •  Or even better...

        ...appoint teachers to positions that set educational policy. If I recall correctly, Rod Paige is the only Secretary of Education in our history with any hands-on experience in public schools, and he thinks public school teachers are terrorists.

        Teachers know what works and what doesn't work. Let them set educational policy instead of politicians.

        by wiscmass on Sat Nov 26, 2005 at 03:48:13 PM PDT

    •  The very first issue is teacher quality

      50% of teaching candidates are great and have the right motivations and good academic preparation.  The other 50% in our colleges of education shouldn't be there.  Sadly they graduate, get teaching credentials, and are hired even ahead of proven experienced teachers applying for the same jobs.

      There was a time in our history when the most able girls (some boys became school teachers, but they always had a lot more options) in the class wanted to be teachers. There was a time in America when teachers deserved and had the esteem of society. With the number of poor teachers, so many that a governor felt he needed a law to help administrators get rid of them, good teachers have a double burden.  They often, out of their caring compassionate hearts, spend extra time with students who have been neglected.  

      If we had a cadre of highly qualified teachers, NCLB  would fall away of its own accord.  It's too bad that teacher credentialing is full of hoops that manage to credential bad teachers as well as good ones.  It's also too bad that teacher credentialing is hamstrung by overzealous adherence to bureaucratic box-checking.

      by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:08:34 PM PDT

      •  and administrator quality!

        In the junior high my kids are currently in, and their previous elementary school, the "tone" of the school has been very much defined by SUPERB principals who lead both teachers and students with a firm hand.  

        btw, the principals in question are Dr. Jeff Raison (Dowling Urban Environmental Elementary, Minneapolis) and Dr. Liz Wynn (Twin Cities Academy, St Paul).  My cheers for both of them!  Our kids also went to two other elementary schools beforehand that were very disappointing, I think due to a lack of "tone".

        Of course, part of getting great teachers and great administrators is giving them a free hand to teach they way they envision.  We can't suffocate them with rules and bureaucracy.

        by Leggy Starlitz on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:18:28 PM PDT

        •  Yes, good administrators set the tone.

          You also touch on professionalism.  We say teachers are professionals but we do not treat them so.  Let's train them to be professionals, and then let them use their professional judgement.  Professional teachers in California who used that judgement to refuse to spurn phonics were branded as insubordinate even though they were later vindicated.

          by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:31:37 PM PDT

          •  Phonics

            No shit, and this points to the flavor-of-the-month propensity of education "research" that has exactly as much to do with science as does "Intelligent Design". "Whole language" my ass - faith-based teaching methodology.

            by MarkInSanFran on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 06:04:58 PM PDT

            •  please address in phonics -- ough

              is it (h)ow as in plough?

              or perhaps (d)ew as in through?

              Maybe it is off as in cough?

              Oh, wait, perhaps it is (st)uff as in tough?

              Did I forget oh as in although?

              You know, I am in AWE is in thought!!

              Phonics by itself is an insufficient approach.  English is not compeltely phonic as a language, partially because it has words dervied rom so many sources -- Latin, French, Danish, Germanic (Anglo-Sacon), etc.

              And to view whole language or natural language as in opposition to phonics is to miss the intention -- and most professional reading teachers choose a balanced approach that utilizes phonics but in real-world contexts.

              by teacherken on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 06:50:53 PM PDT

              •  Ken

                Phonics isn't absolutely perfect? Doesn't cover every single situation in a language which, as you deescribed so well, is full of broken rules? Then consign it to the dustbin of history (along with that metaphor, hopefully)!

                I am certainly not advocating a mindless adherance to a methodology, as I hope you could tell from my rant. My anger is due to the mindlessness of the education "research" community and its faith-based methodologies. I would never have placed "whole language" in opposition to phonics if the education reaearch community hadn't placed it there first.

                I did not learn to read at home. I learned at school, beginning in the first grade, using phonics. By the second grade I was reading avidly. Phonics did its job, which was never to be perfect but to be good enough to get the student going. An example is in order here.

                When I learned morse code I most certainly did not use a "whole code" method in which I immersed myself in a sea of dots and dashes, trying to discern a pattern. I used the "ambo-coco" method, in which the sequence of dots and dashes for a given letter is represented phonetically (funny coincidence that), so that "a", which is dot-dash in morse code, is represented by "am", with the vowel indicating a dot and the consonant indicating a dash. The ambo-coco alphabet starts with am-bo-coco-... and is easy to memorize. It gets you started, and then the inherant pattern-recognition circuitry in the brain takes over.

                I love reading. It's the only thing that got me through a difficult childhood, as I explained in my post upthread. Because of reading, my having learned a substandard amount in high school made no difference in college (might actually have helped - see the first line of "Kodachrome"). Whatever you guys do, don't screw up the teaching of reading.

                by MarkInSanFran on Thu Nov 24, 2005 at 09:01:32 AM PDT

              •  The point was that professional teachers

                were not allowed to use their professional knowledge and experience.  They were ordered to abandon phonics.  English is 85% regular, so phonics as a tool allows people to "sound out" both whole words and most of other words. It's part of the reading toolbag.

                Whole language is also important, especially the authentic discourse aspect. What's ludicrous is the latest fad approach to education.

                by azindy on Thu Nov 24, 2005 at 12:29:18 PM PDT

      •  Hear! Hear! n/t

        by Marc in KS on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:36:29 PM PDT

  •  NCLB is underfunded by 7 billion dollars.

    fund it.

    by seanleckey on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:50:50 PM PDT

    •  actually it is worse than that

      I might note that the original federal commitment on special ed was to pick up 40% of the costs mandated byh federal legislation.   The Feds have proably never even reached 1/2 of that, and that figure is also substantial.   Add that to the figure you quote and other costs that are incurred and go unmentioned and the situation becomes far more dire.

      And lest anyone thing that lawsuits will solve the problem the first law suit against NCLB as an unfunded mandate was dismissed by a Federal judge.

      For a more radical idea about funding, one really should read what Mollie Ivins wrote.  And you can do so by reading my diary from earlier today, which covers ivins and then some, entitled Swords to School Desks

      Now time for me to go to DC Drinking Liberally.   Will check this thread later this evening.

      by teacherken on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:56:04 PM PDT

•  diary recommended

  and I will be adding some ideas, and forwarding some links on websites on education that should be included in the final listing

  by teacherken on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:47:31 PM PDT

•  Intersting

  What a great way to use this community.

  Looks like I will have to spend some time thinking. Though teacherken and Georgia10 will likely have a decent amount of ideas -- can't just leave it up to everyone else.

  by bsb1234 on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:50:11 PM PDT

•  let's add a note of thanks to Kevin Thurman

  who invited me (and other education bloggers) to communicate with Governor Vilsack, and who has taken the time to put together from a variety of sources the response you see listed by topic in the links in the main diary.
  

  by teacherken on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:51:52 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Ken

    You have done a great job as well.

    by kmthurman on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:59:02 PM PDT

•  I really want to have some substantial

  conversations about education.  Thanksgiving weekend is probably the wrong time to try to start one, especially when it can be so hard to get a conversation going at normal times of the year.  For example, this diary got only 3 unique comments (not counting my comments because it was my diary)and 2 recommends.  A few diaries about education get a lot of attention, but most just scroll away to oblivion.  Some of us think that education is a HUGE issue, but it seems that most Americans just gripe.  Studies consistently show that parents rate public schools as poor but the public school their kids attend as good.  This might have something to do with the relative lack of interest.  

  by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:52:39 PM PDT

  •  I agree

    However, at Heartland PAC's community blog there has been a lot of discussion about education going on every week. We have had teacherken, Andrew Rotherham, and a number of weducation bloggers as well as Gov. Warner, Gov. Sebilius, and former Gov. Jim Hunt.

    In addition, a lot of the ideas in the documents that Gov. Vilsack refers to came from two diaries that stayed up on the reccomended diaries throughout the weekend.

    We hope you can take part in the discussion between now and next Wednesday, but we won't stop talking about education anytime after we are done gathering the ideas -- and are likely to come back to it.

    by kmthurman on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:58:38 PM PDT

    •  I remember those diaries and commented

      in them.  Also here, here, here, here, here, here.re

      by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:38:39 PM PDT

      •  Thanks

        I guess we missed you diaries. I will be sure to include them in the final document -- especially the early childhood education and the one about reform -- both fill in areas I feel like were discussed but were missing.

        Thanks!

        by kmthurman on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:51:13 PM PDT

•  I see a lot about longer days/years

  and I was struck by the comments of someone in education on NPR - I can't remember who it was, but as a 12th grade teacher, it really rang true with me.  She said we are lucky we keep the kids as long as we do, considering that just 50 or 60 years ago, many kids (such as my grandfather) dropped out of school at the end of 6th grade to pick up coal for the family to sell. That we keep kids cooped up in a building, for 10 months a year, from 8AM to 3PM, for 13 years, she found remarkable.  She found it remarkable that they don't just drop out or drop from boredom.  I agree.  

  Since we have been requiring all kids in NY State to get a Regents diploma, we have been neglecting the kid who wants and needs to go to trade school to learn a trade that will provide for him/her his whole life.  We need to get back to individualizing education, we need to hold out high expectations for  the kids, but teach to their strengths and interests, and give up on this absurd, one-size-fits-all education we have all bought into.  

  by adigal on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:53:59 PM PDT

  •  Here in New Mexico...

    High school students can work during the day, and do academic work at night or at home.  It's like college cooperative education, where they can get credit for some types of work experience.  This may be one way to keep kids who need/want to work in the educational system.

    I'm a big proponent of longer school years.  Other countries give their children much more time in school, with results to match.  This is also a good excuse to dramatically increase teacher salaries, which would help attract people to teaching who might otherwise go to more remunerative professions.

    by Dallasdoc on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:08:18 PM PDT

    •  Regarding year-round school:

       The benefits to the children aside, I'm tired of being a part-time employee with two paid days vacation a year.  If I were offered the opportunity to teach full-time, year-round at the same hourly wage I earn now, I wouldn't hestitate to accept it.

      by kmbaya on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:14:38 PM PDT

    •  More time in school

        I understand that in Japan time spent in school is considerably longer--and all the extra time is in recess.  Kids need more time to mess around, not to have pointless facts drilled into them.

      by whomever1 on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 08:44:05 PM PDT

      •  Recess, club activities, class meetings, thorough

        cleaning of the school, practicing for field day, excursions and field trips...but academics? not so much.

        by azindy on Thu Nov 24, 2005 at 12:34:52 PM PDT

  •  Yes, the area of

    what used to be called vocational education and is now career and technical education (CTE) needs to be addressed.  Like it or not, a lot of kids are not academically inclined and we need better structures to train and transition those kids from school-to-work.  And still make it possible for them to get into postsecondary education. And give second (or even third) chances for adults who screw up.

    And what about training post-K-12?  Lifelong learning and the like?  What about adult and ESOL education?  This should all be seamless Pre-K-16+ folks.

    On another note, did you know that prisoners used to be able to get college degrees while in prison and now they can't (wouldn't want to coddle them; after all people would go to prison on purpose if they could go to college</snark>). Never occurs to people that if someone gets out of prison with no skills and no profession that will make them a living, they are likely to do something ... well, criminal to survive. Duh!

    by ohiolibrarian on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:11:11 PM PDT

  •  While Living in England

    I worked for a Crown Charity called City and Guilds.  They basically provide training in trades through a vast system of appentiships....it works very well.  Those locations training people are cetified by City and Guilds and are inspected to make sure the trainee is being treated well.....it's a great way for small business to grow and train new employees due the take breaks they get.  The program also allows for people to gain experience in a field and get on there own 2 feet.

    http://www.cityandguilds.com/...

    It's a great system, please check it out.
    

    by Mikecan1978 on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:22:24 PM PDT

•  excellent use of web ....

  What an excellent use of the web to gather people and ideas together to advance education.  Kudos.

  by Keone Michaels on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:56:25 PM PDT

  •  Keone

    Thank you. But this doesn't work wihtout vibrant communities looking for solutions and new ideas.

    This is our first discussion, and we will have more on other topics. I hope you can join those as well.

    I also have chellenged people to come up with ten words to represent and define what the Democratic Party wants, as a way to discuss our message on the web.

    Visit our website to sumbit your own ten words.

    by Tom Vilsack on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:03:47 PM PDT

•  I've actually been thinking a LOT about

  teachers lately. I teach in a Community College, but my Mom was a teacher for 25 years before she became an Assistant Principal. Obviously I hear a lot about teachers. She works in the third worst school in the City of Chicago (at least according to the newest test scores). Her job is to oversee Curriculum and Instruction and to hire/fire teachers. Her hands have been tied quite a bit though by the Principal. Every time she makes a suggestion for a hire or fire she is overrided by him and according to her his decisions are often made not by the quality of the candidate for the job, or the teacher's evaluations, but by race or sexual orientation.

  There are some great teachers at her school, but there are a few bad apples here and there that she's been trying to fire for a number of years. (And don't think I'm biased in support for my Mother...I'm more than willing to point out the times when she's wrong...in these cases she's right though...one of these teachers literally put a porn video on in the classroom one day...with all the students waiting to watch it...and it wasn't just a rated R movie...XXX was on the box).

  Anyway, I was thinking about this along with the teacher tenure proposals in California...and why I didn't and don't support those.

  What I would support though is an independent panel of teachers who reviewed the evaluations of each teacher. This independent panel could pick out those teachers with poor evaluations and interview them, do a surprise observation, do their own evaluations, and then make a recommendation for the teacher to improve or be dismissed...or perhaps be moved to a school that would be a better fit for them. My problem with the current policies in most school districts is that the principal (and sometimes their Assistant Principals) make their decisions on unfair grounds due to dislike of the person, or some imaginary quota system that they've developed.

  I just wanted to offer this idea up to someone who knows more about the system of education than I do. I've heard a LOT of stories over the years, but now that I'm teaching in a Community College I have students who have told me that in High School they were NEVER assigned a SINGLE PAPER in any English class they took up to mine. And they aren't lying! I checked! I'm not sure a teacher should be allowed to continue in their job if they aren't assigning the work that they are required to assign, and I'd like there to be a fair and non-biased way for these teachers to be evaluated and reviewed...and if the independent panel calls for it, to be dismissed.

  by Elise on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:59:23 PM PDT

  •  R-rated movies

    You can't hardly find an freshman composition teacher who doesn't think they need R-rated movies to teach critical thinking skills.  

    One of the first classes the more able highschooler wants to take at the community college level is freshman composition.  Surely we can teach writing and thinking without resort to R-rated movies.

    by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:11:50 PM PDT

    •  Well...

      I'll admit that I've shown a few R-rated films here and there....but mostly the films have been R-rated due to violence and language...not sex.

      I don't have a problem with showing R-rated films to college students...none at all...they are all over 17...my problem comes in when a high school teacher LITERALLY puts on a porn for 15 year olds so that he can listen to his mp3 player and read a book.

      by Elise on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:14:29 PM PDT

      •  They are NOT all over 17

        Accelerated high schoolers are usually younger than 17, and violence and language are just as bad.  Both of my sons have had to deal with this issue.  I interviewed 10 instructors before I found a class for my older son.  My younger son has been in college for 3 years, is less than 17, and we still haven't found an instructor who even wants him in their class.  They say (and I take their word for it) that their material is inappropriate for an adolescent boy.

        by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:18:51 PM PDT

        •  college is not for kids

          I teach college and it is no place for a kid. I don't care how smart the kid is in academics, college is about much more than academics. It is about life and life for most college students is adulthood. Class content can't be watered down for one child. The adults would be short changed and the value of the class would be diminished.

          Maybe this is possible in a math or science class, but a lot of classes in college are about complex life experiences and those experiences are not always pretty. It's just no place for a kid.

          by sassy texan on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:53:42 PM PDT

          •  College is not for kids

            I agree but what do you do when the county superintendent of education in 4 counties doesn't want your children in their schools because they don't know what to do.

            I studied freshman comp without R-rated movies and went on to become a published writer, so I guess it's possible.  No one has explained in any satisfactory way how R-rated movies are essential to critical thinking.

            by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:59:16 PM PDT

            •  agreed

              but it's more than R-rated movies. I have never shown an R-rated movie in my class and never need to. We do, however, talk about R-rated stuff. That's my point.

              by sassy texan on Thu Nov 24, 2005 at 08:47:39 AM PDT

    •  as an example...

      I've shown Schindler's List, Hotel Rwanda, and I Heart Huckabees...as well as The Pianist...and a few others...

      I've been thinking about showing Crash next semester...but I'm thinking the scene with the cop is just TOO much...other than that I'd REALLY like to show that film.

      by Elise on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:16:59 PM PDT

  •  proposal

    I like this suggestion about a review board of teachers to evaluate teachers. I have a teacher friend in California who didn't support Arnold's tenure proposal because of the potential for abuse, as you say, but wondered why the unions wouldn't offer an alternative proposal, because it really is an issue, as you say. And I found that I could not bring that up around many activists and union leaders without being shot down, and I found that odd.... I think your idea is a very good one.

    by Buffalo Girl on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:28:15 PM PDT

•  Great Article

  in the NYTimes yesterday, about how the United States ought to look at the Japanese model of idea-sharing.  Having spent a stint of two months as a student in a Japanese high school this summer, I have...mixed feelings about the idea.  The kids in Japanese schools mostly behave like animals, and there's the idea in Japan that kids have a fundamental right to be in school...in other words, you can't kick them out, no matter what they do.  Certain elements of their system would spell disaster in American schools, but this one would make a lot of sense.  We all hear about these amazing teachers that are spots of light in horrible school districts, and this is something that would help them serve as more effective role models to other teachers.

  by Lawnmower on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:03:24 PM PDT

  •  Maybe I should do a massive

    diary about Japanese education.  I lived in Japan all my adult life, taught in their public schools, and have real experience with Japanese education from pre-K through college.  Their strength is early and elementary education.

    The juku (tutoring school) is probably more responsible for the high levels of Japanese education at the secondary level than the public schools. (See the article in the Kappan, Oct 1993).  (Sorry, no full text link).

    by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:27:47 PM PDT

    •  That's been my impression

      Everyone I knew didn't consider actual time-in-class to be at all important.  The only things that mattered, ever, were tests, studied for by massive cramming immediately beforehand.  Since for getting into Tokyo University, grades were secondary to the entrance exams, most kids didn't care much about them, either.  Combined with devilishly hard tests (grades of below 60% were the norm, including for me, on everything except written English, where kids did better), the actual school occupied a lot less mental space than juku did.  It was a very strange experience.

      
      

      To be fair, this summer was the only time I've spent in Japan actually in school, and it was in a distant island of Okinawa-ken.  Just about as horribly provincial and unacademic as it gets.  Think Montana with sugarcane and beaches.

      by Lawnmower on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:34:19 PM PDT

      •  I love Okinawa

        I have fond memories of swimming with fish you only see in pet shop aquariums these days.  some of the finest teachers I have ever know were from Okinawa (some of the worst too)

        What school did you go to?  I have probably been there at least once.

        by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:42:31 PM PDT

        •  Miyako Koukou

          The college-tracked school on Miyako Island.  So this was actually the most rigorous of the schools there; the trade schools were, however, more strict in terms of rules, and the kids were often more motivated (from what I heard).  I have to say, I love Miyako, it's like paradise.  I have a tentative  job offer to go back and teach English in a conversational school there next year, which I'm seriously considering.  English conversation is the biggest area (I thought) where most of the instruction is outside the schools.

          by Lawnmower on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:56:56 PM PDT

          •  Ah Miyako-jima

            I hope you checked out the local crafts.  How about that bashofu, hand-dyed and hand woven fabric that's costs what now, about $100/square inch?

            by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:02:13 PM PDT

            •  I only checked them out...

              Came as a student...I didn't have much money to spend for that kind of thing, sadly.  I spent most of my time swimming...I lived about three kilometers away from Sunayama Beach, which was probably the most beautiful place I've ever seen.

              by Lawnmower on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:07:53 PM PDT

•  I'm a part of a charter...

  ...school startup in my district. We (hopefully, fingers-crossed) will get approved. If we don't it'll be a crying shame. The best people I've ever worked with founded this charter but it may not be approved. Let me say this: people in the higher ups of administration are frightened of change. They have started rumors about this charter, rumors that are complete crap and are there to scare people away. But the people of this community (poor, rural, underachieving, half Hispanic) are crying out for change. And all the district is giving teachers are more tests and stricter guidelines which have placed us in the box and made morale plummet to an all-time low.

  The charter will give us flexibility to be creative and teach to our students' strengths and work on weaknesses. We will mix grades and get plenty of parental involvement. We will be autonomous and be in charge because we at the site know what's best, not someone sitting in an office or Sacramento. We have 145 kids signed up already and that was after ONLY ONE community meeting.

  Education most have a creative component--it's not a business, and it's not all science. There has to be room for professionals to breathe and create if we are to do the best for our students.

  by MichaelPH on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:11:29 PM PDT

  •  Charters are a mixed bag.

    Some are great, some not so great.  I was involved in a charter startup once.  The higher ups in the administration wanted it.  The problem was the teachers union who used unlawful means such as blocking the door at the community meeting, and threatening professional harm to supporters who were teachers.

    by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:14:57 PM PDT

    •  The head of my union...

      ...is a bulldog but she's on our side. So that's good. The charter is great because the people who wrote it are great. It's the Superintendant who's not so hot on it. The thing is, there are out-of-towner charter companies who have called realtors in this town inquiring about space to put a charter. So the question is, would the district want out of towners or a homegrown charter school?
      

      by MichaelPH on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:19:39 PM PDT

      •  Believe me, they do not want the

        out-of-towners.

        by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:28:31 PM PDT

  •  I like charters too

    I was just going to talk about how to implement school choice, but this is already a way to do it. My own children are currently attending a charter school, and I really like it.

    Here's the thing... THERE IS NO ONE "RIGHT" WAY TO TEACH CHILDREN.  Different children have different educational needs, and the one-size-fits-all approach will always shortchange someone.  

    School choice is a liberal reaction to education.  We should WANT different schools, with different sizes and different styles, so parents can choose what they believe is best for each individual child.   Unfortunately, so-called conservatives have claimed the "choice" mantle for themselves, and muddled it up with vouchers, which have nothing to do with choice and everything to do with privatization and corporatization of education.  

    We must reclaim the concept of school choice!  Living in a good-sized urban area (the Twin Cities), we got to choose from three different public middle schools and a couple of different charter schools for our children - and there were even more we left out!  All of these schools had very different educational approaches, and all were good schools.  Choice?  We had more choice than we could even look at properly!  We don't need vouchers.  We need better funding for the excellent schools we already have.

    But back to charter schools.  Yes, I think this model needs to be promoted more, and better funded.  And yes, it galls the old NEA types.  But it's what's best for the children.

    by Leggy Starlitz on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:28:15 PM PDT

    •  vouchers have nothing to do with choice?

      You presumably remember what happened when a private foundation offered low-income parents in Washington, DC the chance to get vouchers for private schools... kids exited public schools by the thousands.

      Odd, I can't think of anything that has more to do with choice than the ability to give a voucher to a school of one's own choice and get a kid educated.

      While the wingnut concept of voucher ed is to subsidize kids already in private/parochial schools so their parents can afford that new SUV, the concept can be fixed.

      The key is accountability to the taxpayers for results. No education, no more money, and this would be as true for public schools as it would be for private ones.

      Bad for teachers' unions, but remember, the reason for state-sponsored education is to educate kids, NOT provide the Democratic Party with political support, and IMHO, this will be good for good teachers, who will be in a position to start their own schools.

      I actually wrote a draft voucher initiative... that fixes the basic problems with the concept as the wingnuts have tried to implement it, here it is.
      http://www.ecis.com/...

      by alizard on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 07:46:51 PM PDT

      •  bad analogy

        You're comparing apples and, well, crooked right-wing political stunts.

        Did you miss the point where I said I had my choice of a BUNCH of middle schools for my children, each providing a different educational model?  Our current school is a charter school my wife describes as "Catholic school without the Catholic".  We could have gone to a homey neighborhood school, an arts magnet, a big bustling school with lots of facilities, a "classical education" charter school, a couple of different open schools, Montessori, and more - ALL as standard, fully funded public education. No vouchers required.

        So saying vouchers are NECESSARY for choice is, quite frankly, a big stinking crock of shit.  And speaking of "good teachers, who will be in a position to start their own schools" - well, that's EXACTLY what the principal of our current school did, with a charter school.  Again, publicly funded, no vouchers.  

        Now, what we CAN'T do without vouchers is send the kids to fancy private schools.  Or Catholic school.  Or Evolution Is a Tool of Satan Christian  Academy (functionally no different than Catholic).  In other words, there's no doubt about separation of church and state when vouchers aren't used for "choice".  You start messing with vouchers, you start dealing with that sticky issue - and allying yourself with those in the religious right who want to set up state-funded Christian madrasas like a John Wayne version of Pakistan.

        You offer Washington DC as proof that vouchers work.  Well, Washington has lousy schools (not surprising, considering the poor tax base and potential for direct Congressional meddling).  And I'm offering Minnesota as proof that educational choice can be provided WITHOUT vouchers - and without allying with right-wing religious nuts and corporatists who want to McDonaldize your child's education, either.

        by Leggy Starlitz on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 10:33:19 PM PDT

        •  one other thing

          Are you telling me that the government is the only institution capable of providing educational choice? Or just the only one you approve of?

          The draft voucher initiative I wrote was drafted to exclude outside private funding for schools as much as possible. Yes, that fancy private school could be voucher funded as long as they accept the vouchers as 100% of tuition / instructional expenses. Something tells me that few "elite" schools will accept that bargain.

          I wrote something designed to provide real choice, not to provide extra bucks for places and people who don't need it.

          The wingnut voucher initiatives were designed to do the opposite. If they piss you off, go hassle the people who wrote them.

          by alizard on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 11:02:23 PM PDT

      •  ps

        The "no performance, no funding" is the sort of dysfunctional, ass-backwards thinking that characterizes the right.  What if the school's performance problems are due to a lack of resources? You take resources away?  That makes no sense, except in a Freudian punitive-father manner.

        Plus it introduces the sticky question of MEASURING performance.  You want to wander the well-worn halls of No Child Left Behind?  Standardized one-size-fits-all testing?  Go right ahead, but don't suck MY children into that hellhole!  

        I mentioned how much I loved my childrens' elementary school, and how well-run it was, and is. Well, it failed NCLB testing - because one minority kid too few was present on testing day.  Moreover, the school scored below state averages.  Never mind the 20% ESL student body, or that it is the school for physically and mentally handicapped kids (and has been for 70 years in Minneapolis), or the poverty rate and education levels of many parents.  No, it scored below the lily-white suburban schools, and MUST BE PUNISHED.  Right?  Right?

        by Leggy Starlitz on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 10:41:19 PM PDT

        •  so you've got a wingnut

          bunch of fundamentalists running a "Christian" school that teaches creationism instead of evolution and the kids get hammered on the science portion of the proficiency tests.

          Please explain to me why we should be paying for that.

          The purpose of public education is to buy good education for kids, not to keep dysfunctional institutions going. You telling me that there's no such thing as a bad school? Or bad teachers? Or bad administrators?

          Would you feel the same way about supporting the school your kids went to if the place had been a trainwreck instead of well-run?

          Provisions can be made to deal with rationally for situations like kids with handicaps. I think your brain shut down when you read the word vouchers. Or do you have the same sort of problem with the concept of accountability that the GOP does?

          The elimination of "one size fits all" education was my precise intent when I wrote a draft voucher initiative. Read it. A secondary intent was to make sure that schools run by crazies who teach non-science and non-history classes labeled as science and history, for instance, get defunded as quickly as possible.

          Arguments are so much more fun when both parties know what the hell they are arguing about.

          by alizard on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 10:56:28 PM PDT

•  abolish poverty

  and integrate communities. Provide for schools which have smaller classes. Give more money to communities to support single, overwhelmed parents

  I teach in an urban community. This is an official poll:

  Is Sprinkles school, along with every other one in her Connecticut city:

  __ on the failing list, and there isn't a chance in hell they will ever, ever get off until poverty and those coping with it have substantial support.

  __ on the failing list, but with enough training, support, money and more training for teachers they can reach untold possibilities.

  by Sprinkles on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:15:48 PM PDT

•  Raleigh, NC

  I would highly recommend that you take a look at the program of economic integration that has been in place in the public schools in Raleigh, NC for the last five years.

  I wrote a rather mediocre diary here on their program.

  by Jay Elias on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:23:30 PM PDT

•  Crackdown on bullying

  I was severely bullied in school.  As a result of this severe bullying, which consisted of everything from verbal abuse to getting the shit kicked out of me on a regular basis, I was shuffled from class to class, bused on the short bus from Junior High to the local High School for classes (where, believe it or not, I was bullied by a goddam math teacher), and I lost interest in education to the point where, despite a 1350 SAT in the 9th grade, I almost dropped out and I didnt even stick around for graduation after I left.  To this day, Im not even sure if I got a diploma.  Three days before the formal ceremony, I was in boot camp, trying to put as much distance between the living hell that was my upscale suburban school district and myself.  To this day, I cant bare to sit in a classroom and I hate gyms.  I think curbing bullying would go a long way to improving the schools, to the point where arresting and incarcerating students (and parents of those students) who verbally or physically abuse other students should be the rule.  After all, such behavior would NEVER be tolerated in a work place, and what is a school but a workplace for children?  

  by calipygian on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:26:15 PM PDT

  •  I was bullied too and believe me,

    it didn't happen in my classroom when I became a teacher.

    by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:44:27 PM PDT

  •  We've tried

    but it's really hard to stop it. Parent meetings, detentions, suspensions - nothing stops the bully.

    But he went one step too far. He put his hand on the butt of a 6th grade highly regarded and major player's girlfriend.

    That action created a class unity - they all came together and confronted him. He is now terrified to come to school. However, he still has arguments in class with one of his victims - that just shows how stupid  he is.

    by Sprinkles on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:59:57 PM PDT

    •  Put his hands on the butt

      of a Sixth grade girl?  If I put my hand on a coworkers butt, that is sexual assault.  It should be treated as such.

      by calipygian on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 04:42:09 PM PDT

•  Abolish Compulsory Schooling

  Save America's Children

  by Necons Will Ban Me on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:29:00 PM PDT

  •  John Holt

    John Holt is essential reading for anyone that wants to understand the underlying "issues" of educating our children rather than just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic mess that is our education system.

    But the single most important key to better education is parental engagement in the process.  The best book I've read about anything in a long time is "Hold On To Your Kids: Why Parents Matter" by Gordon Neufeld.  And if anyone needs an incentive to read it, let me just tell you that it perfectly explains why Bush behaves the way he does.

    by BalanceSeeker on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:33:31 PM PDT

    •  and in addition to John Holt

        the ideas of Marshall Rosenberg (non-violent communication) would be extremely useful in the schools.  Read the Giraffe Classroom (by some acolyte or other of Rosenberg's--I forget the name).

      by whomever1 on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 08:51:54 PM PDT

  •  Nothing like separating

    the haves and the have mores from the have nothings to an even greater extreme!  Rock on!

    That's one stance I disagree with entirely...at least in the way you stated it.   If you wanted to articulate your position in your own words beyond a link and a 3 word idiotic statement then I might give it the time of day.   As it stands now it holds no water and is asinine to the core.

    by tlh lib on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 07:41:29 PM PDT

•  Educate kids on the evils of big corporate money

  ... influencing our policy-making organs of government and their offshoot policy organizations.

  Like the DLC.

  Kidding, Tom.  Just kidding.

  by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:44:10 PM PDT

  •  Maybe not so funny n/t

    by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:45:03 PM PDT

    •  Not so funny as what?

      NCLB?

      by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:46:03 PM PDT

    •  nah

      trust me

      funny as hell ;-)

      by tlh lib on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 07:43:35 PM PDT

  •  DLC

    If the new head of the DLC is starting soime of the policy process here I don't think it is much of joke.

    We just have to hold him to it -- and then if he keeps doing this -- I dunno reward him despite the DLC or encourage him to leave.

    Anything but dismiss exactly what we want policy makers to do witha joke about an organization.

    I don't see other DLCers like Bayh, Warner, Clinton, or Liebrman here asking for ideas.

    by bsb1234 on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:57:02 PM PDT

    •  So my point is not valid?

      ...

      by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:14:04 PM PDT

      •  Nailed it.

        by tlh lib on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 07:45:12 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Bob

    I will be sending the thread to Gov. Vilsack via e-mail later tonight. Though as tomorrow is Thanksgiving he is unlikely to have time to repsond tonight or tomorrow.

    If he can't make it back to this thread now, you can feel free to e-mail your concerns or questions to him at [e-mail] or come to HeartlandPac.org's communtiy blog.

    by kmthurman on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 10:34:27 PM PDT

•  Some basic ideas

  • Lower class sizes: this is not disputable

  • Better and fully accredited teachers (i.e., more pay, among other things - - I know, dream on)

  • Funding generally across the board, from bathrooms to teachers, to counselors and nurses and music teachers, to books and materials (sigh)

  • Deemphasize testing . . . everything else gets put aside if testing is the baseline for salaries and student advancement.  Plus, critical reading and analysis skills are not well testable anyway.  Rigorous standards, even national standards, are fine if in the service of central educational goals . . . but as an end to themselves they are proving disastrous.

  • Longer days and longer years: for what??  Time needs to be used more efficiently.  Generations were well educated without these needless add ons.  Why burn kids out young and snuff out other (outside) educational opportunities?  You can't take music, sports, youth groups, etc., if you are stuck in school all the time.  Same point for homework.

  • Homework:  see previous paragraph re burnout and inefficiency.  Better quality, less busy work.  Less homework at lower grades (research shows little if any correlation between homework and acheivement at younger grades).  My kids (excellent students & 'good kids') don't want to take music lessons, have fewer (educational!) play dates, etc., because they are busy and worn out with freakin' work sheets, etc.  Think about it.

  • Foreign languages -- why not teach them when kids are young, when research shows brains are best wired for learning new languages?  Waiting until 7th or 10th grade is nearly useless.  English only is so 20th century.

  • Science & Math -- never my favorites, but clearly the bedrock of the education most needed in these times . . . and, amazingly, also the most neglected subjects in the schools. Concern about illiteracy and immigrant learners have resulted in such an (over)emphasis on "reading reading reading" that we've forgotten these most critical basics.

  by SamSinister on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:53:31 PM PDT

  •  Sam, love `em all (in our dreamworld), but would

    ... alter the last one slightly.

    While science and math are critical in today's working world, reading is a primary method of developing critical thinking skills.

    The passivivty of the lives of many kids today, either through cast amounts of television watching or vdeogame playing or onoline chat, means that reading and comprehending concepts that may be new or foreign to them are more important than ever.

    Reading is a key to expressing oneself, as well.  Readers are better writers.

    So while I agree that math and science are critical, I think reading needs to be emphasized even more than in the past because kids spend so much less time reading than they did even a decade ago.

    by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:02:57 PM PDT

    •  Yeah ...

      Reading and writing ... the foundation for even science ;)

      by bsb1234 on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:04:26 PM PDT

    •  We're on the same page (heh)

      Believe me, I'm a reader (my math skills were never my strength), former history major and current contract-drafting attorney, fan of Orwell (and Bob Johnson) and wordbender and newspeak lingui-geek.  I don't want to detract at all from competent, and critical, reading skills!  

      My point wasn't that reading isn't important, and I know you gotta be able to read in order to do dat science.  I just wonder if the (legitimate) emphasis on reading has so diverted our can't-hold-two-thoughts public discourse that math/science has somehow been negligently shunted aside as a result.  

      Also - for what it's worth, growth of critical thinking and analysis skills is not limited to reading either -- science is not only important for the workworld (and it is), but is also an alternate method for using and developing critical thinking.  Reading is king . . . but it ain't the only thing...

      by SamSinister on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:53:38 PM PDT

      •  I think you have a point

        I do think reading is the foundation for everything else and some informal studies have convinced me that childhood reading is one of the best indicators of future school achievement, I've seen math get pushed aside.

        Kids have to be able to do math to prepare for our world, but few are paying attention to math and science.

        by Poor Statue on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 07:46:31 PM PDT

  •  I absolutely love this post....

    ....I would only add that I would like civics better taught, with an emphasis on the bill of rights.

    It is silly to teach foreign languages later rather than earlier.

    by Bensdad on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:03:49 PM PDT

    •  Civics. You bet. I was appalled

      at the lack of even basic knowledge of how our government works as evidenced in letters to the editor in the run-up to the 2004 election.  I am not sure at all that we have an educated electorate.

      by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:09:29 PM PDT

  •  Foreign Languages

    A personal favorite of mine.  We should start in the fourth grade.  I have been all over, offering to teach Japanese and Chinese.  None of the principals I have spoken to want it.  Two different pricipals have said there has been no demand.  Of course not--it hasn't occurred to anyone that they might be able to study Japanese or Chinese.  Everywhere I have lived I have been one of a handful of speakers, and the only possible teacher.

    by azindy on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:06:34 PM PDT

  •  One more thing...

    to your list - Interpersonal skills.  Actually offer classes in which kids learn to talk about and appropriately express feelings, relate to each other in assertive and appropriate ways, learn the difference between feelings and behaviors and learn ways to cope with feelings.  Yeah, they ought to learn this stuff at home, but they don't, and there are some ages (e.g. junior high), when that social stuff is far more compelling to them than academics.  And those skills are every bit as important for success in future jobs (maybe more) as math and science skills.  

    by Ramelle on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 04:50:28 PM PDT

•  One other question, Tom...

  Why does the DLC take the Republican side against teacher unions in so many instances?

  Why the anti-union bias?  You are Chairman of the DLC.  You should be able to answer this question.

  by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 02:55:44 PM PDT

  •  Proof?

    Thd DLC taking sides against teacher unions? Specificaly the Govenror of Iowa and his wife (18 years in the classroom).

    Tom Vilsack and Heartland PAC got over $100,000 from the NEA and AFT and another $100,000 each from SIEU and AFSCME.

    Vilsack is a union man through and through. Get your facts straight before you comment.

    by bsb1234 on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:01:07 PM PDT

    •  Oh, the DLC has a long history of bashing teacher

      ... unions.

      One of their classics:

      Teachers Union Flunks a Test

      They have always viewed teacher unions as an impediment to their policy recommendations on education -- much like the Republicans.

       

      by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:11:16 PM PDT

      •  Tom Vilsack

        I was saying Vilsack just became chair and the teacher unions seem to like him to the tune of six-large.

        Why should he have to answer for the DLC cicra 2001?

        Are we holding dean accountable for McAuliffe?

        When has Vilsack bashed the teachers unions? Better yet, when has his wife?

        by bsb1234 on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:13:43 PM PDT

        •  Oh, hooray for Tom Vilsack.

          Our new DLC hero.  Here's hoping he moves quickly to outshine the other hot DLC property, Mark Warner, and the de facto DLC `08 frontrunner, Hillary Clinton.

          This from the crew that brought us NCLB.

          Collecting ideas doesn't mean squat.  It's a nice gesture, but I'll believe it when I see it.

          The guy is running for President in `08.

          Good for him.

          Just what we need... Another DLC candidate to go along with the already crowded DLC field.

          Did he suddenly just become concerned with the Democratic position ojn education when he started thinking about running for President?

          Thanks for stoppin in.

          by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:19:18 PM PDT

          •  No...

            Educaton has been a top priority during his terms as governor.  My students and I have benefited by his commitment to it.  And his wife Christy was a teacher in Mt. Pleasant IA before he became governor - FWIW, a friend of mine who taught there with her said she was simply the best teacher she's ever worked with.

            by kmbaya on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:30:02 PM PDT

            •  Education (aargh)

              by kmbaya on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 03:31:05 PM PDT

            •  Then one must assume

              you'd expect an answer as well. ;-)

              Right?

              by tlh lib on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 07:52:06 PM PDT

        •  DLC circa 2005

          According to the DLC, withdrawing our troops from Iraq would "give the terrorists a victory." That's about as dumb as anything I heard from the DLC in 2001 or 1985.

          Back on the topic of education, the DLC is telling us that it's wrong to criticize NCLB.

          Thank you, Gov. Vilsack, for coming here. But as the DLC's Chair, you arrive with a lot of baggage.

          by raatz on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 04:00:24 PM PDT

          •  Hold up

            You're saying that the DailyKos ATM has minimum baggage requirements?!??!

            I though all you had to do was post a diary with a D by your name and the cash flowed in.  

            Golly gee I learn something every day.

            by tlh lib on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 07:54:00 PM PDT

        •  I guess based on your response

          we can expect an answer from Tom right?

          Right.

          Just pay attention to sentence #1 in his staffer's diary.   The rest is based on the first.

          Puhlease.

          by tlh lib on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 07:51:17 PM PDT

  •  One other question

    since yours won't be responded to either....

    Why is the first sentence of this diary a link to his PAC where you have a DONATE graphic glaring at you before you even hit the content?

    This diary isn't even recommendable in my opinion and that's the reason why.   I doubt he even had a thing to do with it.  Sorry folks.  You're kidding yourselves if you think Tom's reading this shit.

    by tlh lib on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 07:49:48 PM PDT

    •  Thanks

      Thanks for your question.

      Gov. Tom Vilsack does read the comments in his Daily Kos diaries and his posts at HeartlandPac.org. He drafts the posts himself, usually at home or if he is on the run on his blackberry.

      I help him by handling the actual posting and the html. Then I work with him to respond to comments when he has time through the day and e-mail him the entire comment threads regularly, which he receives on his blackberry.

      Anything with his name on it he writes does the thinking and anything with my name on it, I write. That should in complete transparency explain his interaction with the community.

      Now I believe I can answer your question, since I have been working with Gov. Vilsack on this site for four months. He is very involved with talking to people online.

      He will read your comments as I said before and he came here not to raise money, but to get ideas.

      But you are in luck, I worked with Gov. Tom Vilsack and the Executive Director of Heartland PAC to design the site and can explain that there was no intention to raise money from this post.

      The donation button has been there for months and is the only solicitation for money that Heartland PAC has ever done online. Never in a blog post, anywhere else on the website or in an e-mail has Heartland PAC asked for money. Thaqt is not to say we won't, because the only way to get everyone involved is to gain support in many ways. The donation button in terms of screen real estate and traffic it is far less featured than the Ten Words project or the feed from the community blog.

      I added the link to Gov. Vilsack's entry because he doesn't know how to code html and referred to the website in the first sentence -- I figured it would be easier to add the link.

      I hope that answers your question to your satisfaction. I am going to go back to baking pies tonight and I hope you have a great Thanksgiving.

      But I will say personally that your assumptions are wrong and I believe that Governor Vilsack and myself have spent real time earning the trust of this community, and I am sad when people dismiss it out of hand.

      I also hope that Gov. Vilsack can answer any other question that you have and if he does he will draft it himself.
      

      by kmthurman on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 10:25:13 PM PDT

      •  Thanks for the indepth response.

        I hope, as you say, my assumptions were wrong.

        by tlh lib on Thu Nov 24, 2005 at 07:28:35 PM PDT

•  Offer many more college scholarships

  I understand that in Israel everyone has free education through graduate school. Why can't we do that here for qualified applicants? How much stronger would our nation be if everyone with talent had an opportunity to succeed?
  
  If that doesn't work, why not offer an academic version of Title IX? Title IX provided, in theory, an equal number of scholarships for women who participate in sports as there are for men. Why not make a rule that states that for every funded sports scholarship there should be an equal number of academic scholarships? Even if schools already present nearly that many or more, at least this would be a way to promote them and to show accountability.

  by