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Their vehicle overturned.

Telegraph was apparently the first newspaper to carry news today that a military vehicle carrying U.S. politicians overturned on the way to the Baghdad airport on Saturday and injured two members of Congress.

The source was a Georgia congressman unhurt in the accident, Rep. Jim Marshall.

Rep. Tim Murphy (R-Pa.) was airlifted to a military hospital in Germany for an MRI on his neck, said Marshall, who was also in the vehicle. Rep. Ike Skelton (D-Mo.) was sent to a Baghdad hospital, Marshall told the Macon Telegraph.

Marshall, a Georgia Democrat, said he was not hurt.

The congressional delegation was riding in a box-like vehicle that troops call the "ice cream truck" -- it streaks through the middle of the road to deter oncoming motorists, Marshall told the paper. But shortly after dark, an oncoming truck refused to yield.

"Then, all of a sudden, brakes get slammed on. Then we hit something and go off the side of the road and tip over," Marshall said.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:47 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  best wishes to Murphy (4.00)
    experience is the best teacher

    Treason's Greetings from Karl Rove and Scooter Libby: Merry Fitzmas and Happy New Smear

    by seesdifferent on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:46:11 AM PST

  •  These people should stay home (4.00)
    •  ameri (4.00)
      I respectfully disagree. I think the more they see for themselves, the less they'll have to rely on "intelligence" and "facts" supplied by the Bush administration.

      I know it's naive to think all of them go over for legitimate reasons. For some it's a campaign photo op.

      There are, however, legitimate and important reasons for them to see for themselves and to hear from the troops without the Bush, Pentagon or media filters.

      There is nothing more stimulating than a case where everything goes against you. -- Sherlock Holmes

      by Carnacki on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:50:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do they? (none)
        Do they need to rely on administration "facts"?  They only need to read the international press to get a better picture than they will by riding at 80 mph through Iraq surrounded by bodyguards.  I'm sure that it also helps that soldiers are diverted from their tasks so they can babysit Reps. Murphy and Skelton.  These trips aren't necessary and nobody should shed a tear for Rep. Murphy getting injured on his photo-op.
        •  They're PR Trips As Far As I'm Concerned. nt (none)

          "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him." Bush on Osama-3/13/02

          by chuco35 on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:57:10 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah? (4.00)
            It was one such PR Trip this past August that changed Jack Murtha's mind on the war.
            •  He should read better newspapers (none)
              Then he wouldn't have had to go to Iraq to find out what half the world already knew.
              •  Oh? (4.00)
                You mean all those great "MSM" outlets who are reporting the personal observations of all the enlisted troops in Iraq?
                •  Go to the library (4.00)
                  Get a Guardian or an Independent.  Or read some of the memoirs like Anthony Shadid's "Night Draws Near".  There's no reason to condemn all of the media.  There's more in it than just embedded reporters reporting what the DOD wants it to report.  You can learn a lot more from Arabic-speaking reporters than from driving around in a country where you don't speak the language and can't talk to real people because of security concerns.
                  •  It's time for you to pack this one in. (4.00)
                    For such a strong proponent of independent journalism, you seem to have a curious aversion to allowing decision-makers the opportunity to do some first-person fact finding of their own.

                    Surely there are some politicians who gain little by making such a trip besides a photo op. But just as surely there are others who learn a great deal, and who may even change their minds about the war, as Murtha just did.

                    And what's that old calculus people make about such things? About changing just one mind?

                    Seriously, if a Member of Congress has legitimate questions that he wants answered by troops on the ground, but has concerns about their ability to speak freely, or the filter that their comments might be run through, is his only option to sit and wait for some member of the press to magically hit upon the formulation of his question, ask it, and then report it to him through the mass media?

                    You've made your case, but to have it stand, you have to depend on dealing in absolutes: Such trips can profit no one in no way. And that's not working out.

                    •  OK (4.00)
                      If politicians go to Iraq and don't take any cameras, and don't campaign by claiming how many times they've been to Iraq, and don't suck up the time of soldiers in Iraq, then it's OK with me.  I think you have a romanticized view of these "fact-finding tours" though.  Most are photo-ops.  Back in the district, they like it if Rep. X is out "supporting the troops".  That's the reason why they do these trips.
                      •  Some will, some won't. (4.00)
                        But they all shouldn't go unless everyone agrees to use them for your purposes?

                        I don't have a romanticized view of these tours. I know that some people use them for publicity, and some people use them for fact finding. Of course, the facts found can vary, too, depending on who you are and where you stand -- or where you want to stand when all is said and done.

                        What I think you've got going on here is a heavily anti-romantic view of these trips. "Most" are photo-ops?

                        How many are being taken? Who's taking them? How frequently? And where are these photos turning up?

                        You say this like you actually have the answers at the ready. I don't. But I can actually point to one person whose mind has been changed, and that's enough for me. Considering who it is, that's worth the price of admission for the rest, whatever the number turns out to be.

                        Not only that, but having that one example is all I need to demonstrate the inherent weakness of the argument you make. You say they do no good. Murtha says you're wrong.

                      •  Seems to me,... (4.00)
                        that if politicians really want to find out wtf is going on in Iraq, their kids should be serving in the Armed Forces.  Then they can get info from those who are really seeing wtf is going on!

                        I am a traumatic brain injury survivor.

                        by Street Kid on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:56:01 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

            •  I'm sure One Trip To Iraq (none)
              didn't change Murtha's mind. Or do you have an inside look into his mental processes? He certainly didn't say that did it. From listening to him it was a totality of many factors that he considered.

              "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him." Bush on Osama-3/13/02

              by chuco35 on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:03:57 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  No special insight. (3.80)
                Just what he said at his press conference. That his latest trip to Iraq had prompted him to change his public stance and speak up.
              •  Murtha travels to Iraq (3.75)
                Every six months. Those "many factors" were from his many trips to Iraq and his many conversations with both officers and enlisted men.

                I, for one, am glad to see our congressmen go there to see for themselves what is going on in this illegal war of ours.

                Pictures and newspaper reports - regardless of how well-written or well-informed - can not replace seeing with one's own eyes. Walk through Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana...see for yourself, in relative safety, how different the reality is from the written word and from photographs.

                Bush - the ultimate example of the Peter Principle.

                by PatsBard on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:14:24 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You know... (none)
                  ...before I reached your final paragraph I was thinking, it's like the difference of seeing the devastation from Katrina on TV versus in person.  A "different reality" describes it perfectly.  

                  Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

                  by Barbara Morrill on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 07:48:00 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  You think so? (none)
              Or maybe it was those poll numbers . . . .

               . . .  time to jump off W's bandwagon now that it's finally fully evident to all those not completely braindead what a clusterfuck it's become.

              Of course, you can't really say that - hence the 'eye-opening' trip over there.

              •  Poll numbers? (4.00)
                I'm sure that the guy who hasn't gotten less than 90% of the vote in his reelection efforts in decades sleeps with one eye open and on the polls.
                •  Facts? (none)


                  Or, we could just keep making stuff  up . . . .

                  •  As I recall, the 2002 primary race (none)
                    was the result of redistricting.  Mascara's seat was drawn into Murtha's district - other than that, he has had a very, very safe seat.
                    •  The point is (none)
                      that 70% is not 90% (for whatever reason).

                      And, if there's a tidal wave of anti-war votes coming, another 20% shift ain't that far off . . .  especially if it makes your base stay at home (which they're already inclined to do in non-presidential race years - the turnout is approximately 40% lower already - but if your opposition is highly motivated - watch out! (ala 1994)).

                      Methinks that Rep. Murtha was 'watching out' and had no sudden epiphany that the Iraq war was going badly - if that's his angle, he's two and half bloody years too late.

              •  Someone needs to create (4.00)
                a "dKos' Law": Never ascribe heartfelt motives to something that can otherwise be ascribed to political calculation.

                Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

                by AnnArborBlue on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:12:44 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  R the 2 mutually exclusive? (none)
                  I think they can co-exist, and this is when they have lasting effect.
                •  But (none)
                  Isn't that a likelier explanation?  These people live and breathe politics.  When they win one election they start thinking about two years down the road.  I doubt most politicians would recognize a heartfelt motive if it hit them in the face.
                •  Well, I'm sure there's 100,000 dead, innocent (none)
                  Iraqi's who could have benefitted from just a few 'heartfelt motives' from this warmonger three years ago.  But no, that would have taken a bit of backbone to stand up against the tide.  Backbone that precious few besides Seymour Hersh and the Dixie Chicks seemed to have.
                  •  you say "lack of backbone" (none)
                    I say he really thought the Iraq War was the right thing.

                    Not everyone who disagrees with us does so because they're cowardly. Some just...disagree with us.

                    Daily Kos: turning unanimity into discord since...well...I frickin got here

                    by AnnArborBlue on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 01:53:02 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Reading other extant diaries on DK (none)
                      It appears that the real reason Murtha spoke out was that he has close ties with the top military brass - who desparately want out of Iraq - and the channels of communication to the WH are completely dysfunctional.  Hence, they're using Murtha as a tool to get their message out.  My opinion of Murtha hasn't gone up one iota, but I suppose a retraction of my polling hypothesis is in order (much egg on Roadbed Guy's face . . . )
          •  Many safer ways to improve PR (none)
            than to put yourself in the middle of a war zone. These are congressmen with guts who joined the troops to see war for themselves. All the soldiers over there will tell you Americans are so insulated from this war because we haven't really seen it at all.

            I suppose you prefer that Bush doesn't attend any soldiers' funerals because doing so would be a "PR move." Personally I think it's a disgrace that Bush hasn't attended a funeral, and I wish he would get the balls to finally go to one, whether for PR or not.

          •  I spoke with Ike Skelton on Monday (none)
            I spoke with Ike Skelton for a few minutes before he addressed a forum (and took questions) on Monday. My description of the forum is here.

            He told me he was going to Afghanistan for Thanksgiving and that he'd then go on to Iraq. He wanted to visit Missouri National Guard troops stationed in Iraq.

            Ike Skelton is a very good person. He's genuinely concerned about our troops' welfare - and as the ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee you can be certain he wanted to talk to them directly. That's his style. He wasn't going to Afghanistan and Iraq for a photo-op - that's never been his style. Unlike most members of Congress he has two sons on active duty in the military - he doesn't trumpet that fact, nor does he give interviews about them.

        •  There is no substitute (4.00)
          for being there and seeing for yourself.  Personally I have no intentions of going and will be getting my information from the media.  But I'm not making decisions about how we should withdraw.
          •  Being there? (none)
            I'm not sure how it's really "being there" when you can't speak Arabic, are surrounded by bodyguards, and are driving around the country at breakneak speed.
            •  you misspelled breakneck (1.00)
              do you know what you're talking about?
            •  With all due respect ... (4.00)
              "... surrounded by bodyguards, and are driving around the country at breakneak (sic) speed"  might in fact tell you a whole lot about the country and our great progress  <snark> in pacifying the country.

              I think a little bit of personal adrenaline and fear might go a long way in helping a congressperson (esp. a Repub) cut through the Bush/Cheney BS

              We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot

              by gbussey on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:09:07 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  I understand all that but it is a bragging right (none)
        for these people. It was disgusting to watch Biden on MTP brag that he had been to Iraq over 5 times. But he never mentioned what he accomplished by going there that many times. It is just a political calculation and showmanship for these people at the tax payer's expense. They really should stay home.
        •  No possibility... (4.00)
          that one of the other 534 Members of Congress might treat the trip differently that you think Joe Biden did?
        •  Good catch... (none)
          I was just about to post this

          Warner's response was equally disgusting...

          Something like..."Well, nah nah, I've been there too. Just got back six weeks ago."

          In case nobody's noticed yet, our leaders are fools.

        •  Put up or shut up (none)
          Have you served even one day?  Do you have any idea what a visit from a member of congress means to the soldiers there?  When I was deployed we got a large "CODEL" (congressional delegation) and we were given a list of states and asked if anyone from those states would like to meet with their reps (and it was ASKED.  We got TOLD to go when POTUS came).  Mine was not there but I meet with Senator Roberts because he is a fellow alum.  He spent over an hour with us and promised and kept our confidence, as will I.  No reporters.  No publicity and I have never heard him mention one thing about what we talked about despite having acted on everything said or asked for.  Oh, and he never asked us about party affiliation.  As far as I know, none of the other CODEL members were any different.  Please give our Representatives some credit that they actually care.  Well some of them....never saw Delay.

          It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

          by ksuwildkat on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 07:41:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Keep in mind (none)
        People have to risk their lives to protect these people when they visit. Are any insights they may gain from travelling there worth it? Considering how insulated they need to be from the facts on the ground due to security considerations I am not so sure...

        In theory I agree with you. It is good that they see for themselves. In practice though I have to disagree because I really don't think they learn anything that they cannot parse from various news reports or by visiting vets stateside. The situation in Iraq is just too messy for congresscritters to learn anything of value. If they have to go there to discover that the country is a mess then they haven't been paying attention.

        Things are so sketchy, especially on the route from the airport that I don't think Americans should be on that road unless it is an absolute neccessity. Every time a convoy gets on that road there is a risk to the lives to US troops and Iraqi civilians.

      •  Couldn't agree more (none)
    •  I disagree (3.80)
      They have a right to see what is going on over there.  For decades, politicians have always visited the battlegrounds.

      Evan Bayh 2008
      Miller for KY Governor 2007

      by dsolzman on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:02:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Long history of photo-ops (none)
        For decades politicians have wanted to be on photo-ops.  Cameras have been around for a long time now.
        •  What's the alternative? (4.00)
          They sit in a bubble in Washington DC and get criticized for being "out of touch" and "unwilling to see the reality on the ground?"
          •  I think the point is (none)
            that they don't really get to see the reality on the ground anyhow. They don't really learn anything they couldn't learn from watching frontline.

            I tend to agree with this.

            That said, as lawmakers they certainly have every right to go. I just hope that they are carefull in excercising that right and are mindfull that by going there they are endagering their security force and Iraqi civilians in doing so.

            •  I think that point misses the point. (none)
              What "reality on the ground" do you think they're after? Some may be searching for the "reality" of the situation "on the ground" for Iraqis. Or on the front lines of the fight. They won't likely get that.

              But more are probably looking for the "reality" of how troops "on the ground" feel about what they're doing and the support they're getting for doing it.

              That, they won't necessarily get from the media. And there's no better way to get it than gathering it yourself. You can ask all your questions, gauge the veracity of the responses you get, ask follow-ups, and decide for yourself whether the non-verbal vibe you get matches the answers to your questions.

              Frontline won't give you that. Not only because it's not a personal experience, but also because they're not often trying to show that.

              A lot of these Congressmen aren't there to find out how the war's going in statistical terms. They're there to find out what soldiers have to say about it.

              •  I don't think they have to go to Iraq for that n/t (none)
                •  Well, they disagree with you. (none)
                  And they're "on the ground" in the job of the guy who makes the decisions about what they have to do and what they don't.

                  Can you think of any other ways to have a face-to-face conversation in person?

                  •  Sure (none)
                    they can open their offices up stateside for any soldiers on leave or returning. They can visit troops who are in transit in a safer area. This way the troops can air their concerns in private in an environment where they are likely to be more forthcoming with their grievances.

                    My complaint is not so much that they shouldn't go to Iraq. I just think that they need to weigh the cost/benefits (which some may well be doing). I just don't think that they can accomplish any kind of fact-finding mission of value that justifies the risk to themselves and those charged with protecting them under the current circumstances.

                    They are high profile targets. Because they are targets I am sure extraordinary efforts need to be made to secure their safety. Efforts that insualte them from the realities of the situation and put people in danger. Due to these efforts I have doubts as to the value of many of these trips.

                    I gotta go watch the Grey Cup so unfortunately I have to end it there.

        •  I'm 21 (4.00)
          and even I like photo-ops.  For someone of my age, it helps with networking.

          Evan Bayh 2008
          Miller for KY Governor 2007

          by dsolzman on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:21:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Photos ops (none)
          Yes, congressional junkets to Iraq can be photo-ops.  So can town halls in the district.  

          That doesn't meant that either is worthless.

    •  Wrong, They Should ALL Serve a Short Tour (4.00)
      Just a few weeks would do. A rotation schedule to work every Representative, Senator and Cabinet Member in shouldn't be hard to coordinate.

      Evolution is the organizing principle of all known life. Your God is a theory with no supporting evidence.

      by The Baculum King on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 12:00:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree (none)
        unless you want to put them through basic training. As I mentioned above someone has to put their neck on the line to protect these people.
        •  What Takes Weeks in Basic Training (none)
          the real world in Iraq will teach them in days, and if they don't learn there will just be another vacancy to fill somewhere.

          And they might catch a bullet that would otherwise have hit a soldier.

          Feed 'em soldier food, pay them soldier pay, give 'em soldier clothes to wear. If you personally vote to send soldiers to war you should go with them, at least a little.

          Evolution is the organizing principle of all known life. Your God is a theory with no supporting evidence.

          by The Baculum King on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 12:15:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Karma (none)
    Karma seems to be the right word for this.  If you send others to die in Iraq and then go on a photo-op in Iraq, then the world has a way of biting you in the ass.
    •  Ike Skelton (4.00)
      is not a war supporter, he has a somewhat different withdrawal plan than Rep. Murtha, with different pullout criteria. Skelton was hardly there as a war supporter.

      Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain

      by Rolfyboy6 on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:50:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well (none)
        Maybe that's why Murphy was injured and Skelton wasn't.
        •  Well (none)
          in a way, it's relieving that Skelton didn't have to get flown out of the country. He would probably be more at risk, considering his age and all.

          And I just realized that wishing someone a 'speedy recovery' after this sort of thing might be a bad choice of words.

          "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

          by RBH on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:57:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  The Iraq craziness (none)
    just multiplies over time.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain

    by Rolfyboy6 on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:48:35 AM PST

  •  Would it be tinfoil-hattish to say (4.00)
    that if there hadn't been a Republican in there, I'd be wondering?  Probably so.

    But geez, you know a war is not under control when the casualties include congressmen!  Can't even keep safe the people the government wants to keep safe, let alone the ones they claim to honor while in fact throwing in harm's way.

  •  Thanks God it was 'just' a vehicular (none)

    'All great change in America begins at the dinner table.' Reagan

    by PhillyGal on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:50:29 AM PST

    •  As America bulldozes down the.... (none)
      Road of History....BOOM!....It hits the speed bump that is Iraq.

      See? God does have a sense of humor!

      Metaphors and jokes aside, may the injured heal quickly, and may our troops have only these minor accidents to worry about until they are safely home.

      Bush - the ultimate example of the Peter Principle.

      by PatsBard on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:19:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Gentleman (4.00)
    Welcome to Iraq, where Freedom marches and 'murkin's are greeted with flowers and candy.

    Do you like your flowers and candy with or without C4?

    Let freedom reign but mind the pipeline, please...

  •  Yeah (none)
    Things are going great in Iraq!

    "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." Thomas Jefferson

    by llih on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:52:32 AM PST

  •  Iraq strategy (4.00)
    Sending our Congressmen be have rollover accidents in Iraq... so they don't have to have rollover accidents in the streets of America.
  •  honestly, (4.00)
    i'm amazed that they were being brought to the airport via "route irish" anyway. don't most VIPs make that trip by blackhawk?

    i mean they don't call it the most dangerous road in the world for nuthin'.

    "after the Rapture, we get all their shit"

    check out Daily Gotham, yo!

    by lipris on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:53:18 AM PST

  •  Best wishes to Ike Skelton (4.00)
    I hope he can make a speedy recovery too. Although who knows what one will experience in a Baghdad hospital.

    At the very least, I would hope people would refrain from comments of saying that they deserved this. No matter your opinion on the war, and who voted for it, it's not a great idea to just say that somebody deserved this due to one vote. It's like one ant in a colony.

    Anyways, even Ike was becoming more skeptical on the war and i'm sure this experience isn't going to make Iraq look any better to Marshall or Murphy.

    And go figure, Marshall is the only guy unhurt and he wasn't wearing a seatbelt.

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:53:24 AM PST

    •  Reminds of Puddin'head Wilson (none)
      in a way... when the "bad" son was found out to actually have been a switched at birth slave child and ends with him being sent down the river, ie, back into slavery, and somehow that was a just ending for him, nevermind that no one should sent into slavery.

      That's how I remember it at least. It has been a long time since I read.

      we now know a lot of things, most of which, we already knew... (-dash888) -8.25; -6.41

      by Tirge Caps on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:06:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sarcastic comment (4.00)
    Oh, now that somebody "important" was hurt in Iraq, maybe there will be more calls to get out...

    I guess the oncoming truck was following the administration's call to "stay the course".

    Enough sarcasm, best wishes for a speedy recovery to all involved.

    I support the troops! I want them to return home in something besides caskets and body bags.

    by minidriver on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 10:55:18 AM PST

    •  I hope not. (none)
      I hope this doesn't change any Congressman's stance on whether or not we should be over there.

      I'll be really sad, pissed off, and further disillusioned if two wealthy senators getting pushed down is tragic enough to change someone's mind after one has shrugged off 2,100 dead troops.

      Why are these two extra casualties so special?  Were the troops riding with the senators unharmed(funny how he article doesn't mention them...)?

      I bet the White House is upset about this: the news outlets will think this is much more interesting than the "Arranged Sympathy Scenario" Andy Card got in and out of today.  

      I haven't posted much, those little HTML tags above the comment box are handy.

      •  Exactly (none)
        Sad, pissed off, and further disillusioned?  You and me both, and a helluva lot of other people in this country.  

        I was wondering about anyone else in the convoy, as well as the people in the other vehicle.  Guess they don't rate the news coverage...

        Sorry, I've got too much snark in my system this's a symptom of having the blood-red half of the family in my house for Thanksgiving.

        As far as the smoke filled cockpit, they were just testing the new smoke & mirrors system and the mirrors failed.  

        I support the troops! I want them to return home in something besides caskets and body bags.

        by minidriver on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 07:13:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I hope they get better soon (4.00)
    Yes, even the Republican that was there.  He is a member of our government, and seems to care enough about our troops to check up on them.  Now if Bush had another one of his alcoholic bike accidents but it happened to be in Iraq, I would laugh.
  •  They Were Lucky (4.00)
    They did a lot better than Julia Sgrena and the Italian Army General who literally protected her with his life, when he was shot in the head on the very same road, at that same high speed, we were told.

    Now it seems to be cool for touring US Congresspeople to race along that very same road at the same high speed, ignoring everything come hell or high water, crashing as a result.

    But back then we were told that those Italians, with their specially trained military driver, were going way too fast, and not paying attention. That's why they were shot at, we were told.

    BTW, how's the investigation of that coming along? Haven't heard anything about it for months now.

  •  Do You Think The Truck That Refused To Yield (none)
    might have been a suicide jihadist? You gotta know those ice cream trucks carry VIPs.

    "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him." Bush on Osama-3/13/02

    by chuco35 on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:01:45 AM PST

    •  A test ambush (none)
      My thoughts exactly when I read the article. Was this a prerequistor of things to come???? It is disturbing to me that our method of transporting government officials is to put them in the back of truck and go balls out down the middle of the road. What genius came up with this strategy????

      I would like to see W, Cheney, Rice, Rummy, Wolfie and Perle put in the back of that truck and shot down the airport highway.

      They would all shit their pants in the first five minutes. The amusing part would be how they would blame it all on President Bill Clinton.

  •  How dare anyone (none)
    fail to yield to an American vehicle, who do they think they are, we are GWB's America and we yield to no one, and we respect no one either.
    Hopefully no one was seriously hurt in either vehicle.
  •  accidents happen n/t (4.00)

    Stop saying that blue state people are out of touch with the morals and values of the red states. I'm not out of touch with them, I just don't share them.

    by missreporter on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:05:44 AM PST

  •  Gosh... (none)
    I hope they're okay.

    "Computer. End holographic program...Computer? Computer?"

    by kredwyn on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:08:12 AM PST

  •  Hospital Conversation (3.50)
    Doctor #1: This is strange. The MRI on Rep. Murphy's neck is good, but it appears there's a big hole where is heart should be.

    Doctor #2: Wow, you're right!

    Nurse: Doctors, I don't mean to interupt, but he IS a Republican.

    Doctors: Ah, right. Good call.

    Mean I know, but who gives a f*ck.

    Go Red Sox! See you next year!

    by MikeBaseball on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:08:36 AM PST

  •  The Real War On Terror (none)
    Everyone should watch this documentary, broadcast on British Channel 4.

    Bittorrent (login):




  •  I wish them a speedy recovery (none)
    perhaps they will come to their senses about the war know.

    And, What ever happend with those right wing radio show hosts that were going to take a well documented tour of Iraq and Afghanistan? Did that ever happen?

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:12:39 AM PST

  •  It's over (none)
    You can bet this is the end of Bush and the war.  This even right here will be played and replayed over and over again.

    How can we ensure the safety of our troops, how is this making America safer, if we cannot even secure our congresspeople are safe?

    This is the 200th straw to break the camels back.

    Disobedience to Tyrants is obedience to God

    by HomegrownDem on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:13:08 AM PST

    •  People kinda glossed over... (none)
      ...Condi wearing body armor to walk from her car to the entrance of the George W Bush Imperial Palace when she was in Iraq last week.  

      There's been lots of  commentators on Fox explaining that the Army would probably be suffering at least five casualties per day if our troops were training stateside.  So they'll make the case that Iraq is "safe enough"(at least, safe enough for Iraqis...).

      I bet anything the wingnuts will be citing statistics for domestic congressional traffic accidents by tomorrow morning.  And then they'll mention Ted Kennedy and his murderous bridge rampage, in which he deliberately rammed a schoolbus full of special ed. students off the bridge.

      •  several years of hard work....... (none)
        and the US Army cannot even secure the 5-mile length of road from the airport to Baghdad's Green Zone? What does this say about progress?

        Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann

        by Kayakbiker on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 12:29:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I can only pray (none)
    that America's Plastic Thanksgiving Turkey™ wasn't damaged in the accident.

    The revolution is ongoing.

    by The Gryffin on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:13:37 AM PST

  •   Speedy recovery (none)
    These congressmen experienced what thousands of american soldiers have already experienced.

    And to all, I wish a speedy recovery.


    "Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable". (JFK)

    by duende on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:15:23 AM PST

  •  Why isn't this being reported on CNN? (none)
    Or anywhere else, for that matter.

    I guess this hits too clost to home that this war is a Mess'o'potamia that we need to get out of, in the most expedient way possible.

    Will it take a member of Congress actually getting killed before that happens?  God, I hope not...

    "Corruption is the disease; Accountability is the cure."

    by The Truth on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:16:58 AM PST

  •  Hmmmm.... (none)
    Doesn't Ike Skelton represent a swing district in Missouri?

    I expect Rove will be over at the hospital with a pillow shortly.

    "Hit a man with a fish, and he'll have a headache for a day. Teach him to hit himself with a fish, and he'll have headaches all his life!"--Karl Rove

    by AdmiralNaismith on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:19:18 AM PST

    •  It's not really a swing district (none)
      It went 64-35 for Bush in 2004.

      I'll note that if i'm in that district sometime around or after a retirement, I'll probably become one of those guys who runs for office and begs for money to win MO-4. Although it is probably non-helpful that I haven't lived in that district (and won't unless I go to college in Warrensburg) and non-helpful that I won't be 25 until 2010.

      Hmmph.. yeah

      "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

      by RBH on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:43:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Congressman Ike Skelton (none)
      is a decent man.  He's about 500 times more conservativethan I am on many issues, but he is a Democrat and much beloved by his constituents in southern Missouri.  He has become more and more vocal and critical lately about the war in Iraq and his views are beginning to make a difference in this state.  Also, he is perhaps the only Democrat in his very conservative district who could hold that seat  and when he leaves the House his district will, most likely, swing Republican.

      I wish him well.

      The most un-American thing you can say is, "You can't say that." -G. Keillor

      by Eddie Haskell on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:58:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well (none)
        I describe MO-4 as "West-Central Missouri". It's not officially South Missouri because MO-7 is to it's south.

        MO-4 is a large district and also the district of Harry S. Truman's birthplace (Lamar). It just won't seem right if the Republicans won a Congressional seat that is a large part of what was "Truman Country".

        But hopefully that district will have 30 more years of Democratic Representatives.

        "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

        by RBH on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 12:04:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Screw all of you (3.50)
      Ike Skelton is one of the only members of either House with family in the military. He was probably visiting his son who is one of the nicest, hardest woking and professional soldiers I have ever met and who keeps the fact that his father is a very important person to himself. Were I not a CSPAN junkie, I would never have known.

      Ike Skelton is risking more with his decisions about Iraq than all the Bushes, Roves and Cheneys combinged. Unless you are doing the same, STFU!

      It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

      by ksuwildkat on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 04:24:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The KSMO area is representing (none)
        or just posting, whichever.

        And it's a shame that Bill Snyder's retiring, I hope they find somebody good to help the Wildcats bounce back.

        "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

        by RBH on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 05:11:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Almost can Murphys Ads Now for Combat creds (none)
    ocuppies other chickenhawk D-head Sontorum's Old House seat, will probably follow up in Santorum fashion with ambulance chasing lawsuit!

    Been mostly in diaries, looks Like Andy cards plane was goin down in smoke yesterday. What a metaphor.

  •  Fitz calling another reporter (none)

     - A second Time magazine reporter has been asked to testify in the     CIA leak case, this time about her discussions with Karl Rove's attorney, a sign that prosecutors are still exploring charges against the White House aide.

    •  Now That's Juicy... (none)
      A mouthpiece's talking points are being presented to a grand jury. Boy, it sure would be ironic if the mouthpiece ends up giving Fitz ammunition against his very own client. Could be the mouthpiece himself might be dragged before the GJ. Double-triple irony. The mouthpiece having to hire a mouthpiece of his own. Now that's what I call having the mouthpiece earn his retainer.

      "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him." Bush on Osama-3/13/02

      by chuco35 on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 12:27:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Two Injured. (none)
    Both Murphy-R and Skelton-D were injured. Murphy was sent to Germany for an MRI with a neck injury. Why was Skelton kept in Baghdad to be treated and what are his injuries? Why would they not have sent both congressmen out of the battle zone for treatment?

    Anyone with more information, please respond.

    This War is about Money. War Money. Oil Money.

    by nehark on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 11:29:24 AM PST

    •  Just read the entire diary.. (none)
      You'll find your answer there..
      •  Well...I did. (none)
        I read the diary and I read the referenced article. Is this what you're talking about?

        "Marshall, a Georgia Democrat, said he was not hurt."

        If so, I believe Marshall is referring to himself as not being hurt. If Skelton was not hurt, why would he be sent to a Baghdad hospital?

        I guess I'm just overlooking something because I still don't know what happened to Skelton and why he was sent to a Baghdad hospital. I assume he was not hurt badly enough to hold in the hospital or we'd hear more about it in this story. However,the story doesn't really give us any information on Skelton and so I wonder.

        This War is about Money. War Money. Oil Money.

        by nehark on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 03:15:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  How it happened (4.00)
    The vehicle skidded out of control after it hit a patch of rose petals.
  •  Murphy's reputation (none)
    is that he's impossible to work for.  His staff turnover is unbelievable.  I pity any medical people who have to deal with this asshole.

    "My job is to protect the American people." George W. Bush. Did he?

    by PAprogressive on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 12:57:00 PM PST

  •  So whose truck (none)
    was the oncoming truck? One of ours also going down the middle of the road? Who gets the right-of-way? The one that doesn't chicken out? Safe road now all right.

    The most courageous act is still to think for yourself. Aloud. -Coco Chanel

    by Overseas on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 12:58:49 PM PST

  •  So driving like maniacs with Democrat Congressmen (none)
    on board.

    -- it streaks through the middle of the road to deter oncoming motorists, Marshall told the paper. But shortly after dark, an oncoming truck refused to yield.

  •  SUPPORT THE TROOPS....? (none)
    As the protestors continue in Texas,

    the administration has "fed" the MSM news stories that~~"the troops"~~"still support"~~ their "mission" in Iraq... Well Great!

    But, this implies that the protesters are "hurting the troops"...and you know what? I kind of agree!

    If these "volunteers" want to kill and mutilate Iraqi people...and be killed and mutilated in return...LET THEM!

    It's not a matter of Right and Wrong to the Republicans Leadership, it's about their "hidden agenda"...and most of these Bubba Republicans, whose kids are dying in Iraq, voted for Bush!

    Why should we progressives have any sympathy for them?  They despise everything about the Progressvie Movement in America.

    So, let them learn their lessons "good" this time--so they'll never forget!

    Then, by the time the 2008 elections roll around... They'll know what side their bread is butter on...

    And Progressives simply can not "lecture" these Bubba Republicans into reasonable political views...these Bubbas Republicans "learn by doing."

    Progessive "lectures" by Howard Dean, Kruggie, et al...only cause Bubba Republicans to hate the Democrats and Progressives even more!  In short, their eyes glaze over everytime Mr Dean speaks...

    Thus, I support the "Bush Debacle" in Iraq...because it's the only "cure" for misguided Republicanism among these "Republican" rural working classes...  The cure for Bushism is more Bush!

    Let it Bleed...until all of the religious nonsense and racist poison is out of the American ultra-right...

    Only then will Progressive Thinking have any chance in the Red States.

    More Content, Less Chat.

    by BALTHAZAR on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 01:33:32 PM PST

  •  I would (none)
    like to imagine that this "fact" finding trip is part of the congressional oversight that should have been there when the war started. I think congress should do one whole rotation of trips and be forced to return to Iraq every three months. We'll call it the backdoor oversight...But I'll be happy when accountablity comes back into the goverment..say around 08..Flying Spegghti monster willing..around 06
  •  Serves 'em right (none)
    Riding in a speeding truck, playing chicken with oncoming traffic.

    What a bunch of Jack Asses!

    It's good they didn't die though, so they can tell their stories about how stupid they were.

    "Problems can never be solved by using the same pattern of thought which created them." - Albert Einstein

    by robolywa on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 01:48:33 PM PST

  •  did anyone but me find it curious that (none)
    the Rep. congressman was airlifted to Germany, while the disabled Dem was taken to a Baghdad hospital?

    Rep. Tim Murphy (R-Pa.) was airlifted to a military hospital in Germany for an MRI on his neck, said Marshall, who was also in the vehicle. Rep. Ike Skelton (D-Mo.) was sent to a Baghdad hospital, Marshall told the Macon Telegraph....

    Marshall said as the vehicle toppled over, he held onto Skelton, who has limited use of his arms due to a bout with childhood polio.

    "My case is alter'd, I must work for my living." Moll Cut-Purse, The Roaring Girl - 1612, England's First Actress

    by theRoaringGirl on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 02:07:28 PM PST

  •  Hmm (4.00)
    " streaks through the middle of the road to deter oncoming motorists, Marshall told the paper. But shortly after dark, an oncoming truck refused to yield...."

    Sounds like our foreign policy.

  •  Any chance (none)
    we can get Jean Schmidt to go to Iraq and drive a Yugo around with the words "you are all cowards" on it?  
  •  Vehicle accident fatalities should be KIA (none)

    Because of the threat of IEDs and suicide cars, military vehicles are driven at speeds that lead to frequent, fatal accidents. Then the deaths are reported as non-combat related. It's a travesty. Troops are dying in vehicle accidents because reckless driving is an integral part of the convoy combat tactics of US forces.

    I could give a shit about US Congressmen who I think don't need to be there, except to look good to constituents, but it pisses me off how many troops have died under similar circumstances and gone unnoticed. I mean, hell, they didn't even die from an IED, it was just a car crash. Could happen back here, right? Anything to keep down the number of combat deaths, probably affects some benefits as well. No Purple Heart for you!

    Pipe dreams are not an exit strategy.

    by TrainWreck on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 06:03:59 PM PST

  •  OMG! They can't even protect Congressmen ? (none)
    We're ficked! Or more accurately, Iraqi civilians and our men there are ficked..

    I see a red stripe and I want it painted black..

    by lawnorder on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 06:47:06 PM PST

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