Daily Kos

Hillary Is NOT Pro-War!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 04:48:06 PM PDT

For those who have drunk the Kool-Aid of the anti-Hillary
Clinton haters, below is a letter from Hillary Clinton regarding her position on Iraq, dated today.

As you can see, she is hardly a "warmonger" as some have alleged. She's not even "pro-war," as others have claimed.

She is a pragmatist when it comes to foreign policy, a requisite for anyone to become president, and certainly a requisite for anyone who attains that position.

November 29, 2005

Dear Friend,

The war in Iraq is on the minds of many of you who have written or who have called my office asking questions and expressing frustration. When the President addresses the nation tomorrow on the war, the American people want and deserve to know how we got there, why we are still there, how we have executed the war and what we should do now. In short, the President must explain his plan for the war in Iraq.

There are no quick and easy solutions to the long and drawn out conflict this Administration triggered that consumes a billion dollars a week, involves 150,000 American troops, and has cost thousands of American lives.

I do not believe that we should allow this to be an open-ended commitment without limits or end. Nor do I believe that we can or should pull out of Iraq immediately. I believe we are at a critical point with the December 15th elections that should, if successful, allow us to start bringing home our troops in the coming year, while leaving behind a smaller contingent in safer areas with greater intelligence and quick strike capabilities. This will advance our interests, help fight terrorism and protect the interests of the Iraqi people.

In October 2002, I voted for the resolution to authorize the Administration to use force in Iraq. I voted for it on the basis of the evidence presented by the Administration, assurances they gave that they would first seek to resolve the issue of weapons of mass destruction peacefully through United Nations sponsored inspections, and the argument that the resolution was needed because Saddam Hussein never did anything to comply with his obligations that he was not forced to do.

Their assurances turned out to be empty ones, as the Administration refused repeated requests from the U.N. inspectors to finish their work. And the "evidence" of weapons of mass destruction and links to al Qaeda turned out to be false.

Based on the information that we have today, Congress never would have been asked to give the President authority to use force against Iraq. And if Congress had been asked, based on what we know now, we never would have agreed, given the lack of a long-term plan, paltry international support, the proven absence of weapons of mass destruction, and the reallocation of troops and resources that might have been used in Afghanistan to eliminate Bin Laden and al Qaeda, and fully uproot the Taliban.

Before I voted in 2002, the Administration publicly and privately assured me that they intended to use their authority to build international support in order to get the U.N. weapons inspectors back into Iraq, as articulated by the President in his Cincinnati speech on October 7th, 2002. As I said in my October 2002 floor statement, I took "the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a U.N. resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible."

Instead, the Bush Administration short-circuited the U.N. inspectors - the last line of defense against the possibility that our intelligence was false. The Administration also abandoned securing a larger international coalition, alienating many of those who had joined us in Afghanistan.

From the start of the war, I have been clear that I believed that the Administration did not have an adequate plan for what lay ahead.

I take responsibility for my vote, and I, along with a majority of Americans, expect the President and his Administration to take responsibility for the false assurances, faulty evidence and mismanagement of the war.

Given years of assurances that the war was nearly over and that the insurgents were in their "last throes," this Administration was either not being honest with the American people or did not know what was going on in Iraq.

As a member of the Armed Services Committee, I heard General Eric Shinseki, the Army Chief of Staff, tell us that it would take several hundred thousand troops to stabilize Iraq. He was subsequently mocked and marginalized by the Bush Administration.

In October 2003, I said "In the last year, however, I have been first perplexed, then surprised, then amazed, and even outraged and always frustrated by the implementation of the authority given the President by this Congress" and "Time and time again, the Administration has had the opportunity to level with the American people. Unfortunately, they haven't been willing to do that."

I have continually raised doubts about the President's claims, lack of planning and execution of the war, while standing firmly in support of our troops.

After my first trip to Iraq in November 2003, I returned troubled by the policies of the Administration and faulted the President for failing to level with the American public. At the Council on Foreign Relations, I chided the President for failing to bring in enough international partners to quell the insurgency.

I spoke out often at the Armed Services Committee to Administration officials pointing out that the estimates they provided about the war, its length and cost lacked even basic credibility.
And I challenged Secretary Rumsfeld more than once that he had no benchmarks to measure actual progress which would lead us to believe we had a strategy that was working.
Last month, I signed a letter with Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid and dozens of other Democratic Senators voicing strong concerns that, without a solid plan, Iraq could become what it was not before the war: a haven for radical Islamist terrorists determined to attack America, our allies and our interests. The letter asked the Administration "to immediately provide a strategy for success in order to prevent this outcome."
Just a few weeks ago, I joined a bipartisan majority in the United States Senate in voting for an amendment to the Defense Authorization bill calling upon the President and his Administration to provide answers and a plan for the war.
It is time for the President to stop serving up platitudes and present us with a plan for finishing this war with success and honor - not a rigid timetable that terrorists can exploit, but a public plan for winning and concluding the war. And it is past time for the President, Vice President, or anyone else associated with them to stop impugning the patriotism of their critics.

Criticism of this Administration's policies should not in any way be confused with softness against terrorists, inadequate support for democracy or lack of patriotism. I am grateful to the men and women of our armed forces and have been honored to meet them twice in Iraq. They honor our country every day with their courage, selfless dedication, and success in battle. I am also grateful to the thousands of unknown men and women in our security forces and around the world who have been fighting the larger war against terrorism, finding terrorists' cells, arresting them and working to prevent future attacks. And I applaud the brave people who have been risking their lives every day to bring democracy and peace to Afghanistan and Iraq.

I recently returned from visiting Israel and Jordan, seeing first hand the tragedy of spreading terrorism. As a New York Senator, I believe New York has a special bond with the victims of such terrorism, and we understand both the need to fight terrorism and the need for a clear plan in Iraq so that we can focus our resources in the right ways to prevent it from again reaching our shores.

America has a big job to do now. We must set reasonable goals to finish what we started and successfully turn over Iraqi security to Iraqis. We must deny terrorists the prize they are now seeking in Iraq. We must repair the damage done to our reputation. We must reform our intelligence system so we never go to war on false premises again. We must repair the breach with the Muslim world. And we must continue to fight terrorism wherever it exists.

Like all Americans, I hope the Iraqi elections are a true _expression of democracy, one that is committed to majority rule, minority rights, women's rights, and the basic rule of law. I hope these elections will finally put the Iraqi people on the road to real security and independence.

If these elections succeed, we should be able to start drawing down our troops, but we should also plan to continue to help secure the country and the region with a smaller footprint on an as-needed basis. I call on the President both for such a plan and for a full and honest accounting of the failures of intelligence - something we owe not only to those killed and wounded and their families, but to all Americans.

We have to continue the fight against terrorism and make sure we apply America's best values and effective strategies in making our world and country a better and safer place. We have to do what is right and smart in the war against terrorists and pursuit of democracy and security. That means repudiating torture which undermines America's values. That means reforming intelligence and its use by decision makers. That means rejecting the Administration's doctrine of preemptive war and their preference to going it alone rather than building real international support.

I know when America leads with its values and fearlessly faces the facts, we make the best decisions. That is what is missing at the highest levels of our government, and what we desperately need now - answers to the questions about Iraq that only the President can provide. I hope he will level with the American people and provide us those answers in his Annapolis speech and give us the plan that has been sorely lacking.

Sincerely yours,

Hillary Rodham Clinton

For those of you who just flat out hate Hillary, the Clintons or the thought of a woman as president, you can go to town and troll-rate me up the whazzooo (sp?). But the facts are clear, Hillary is not a "warmonger" or "pro-war," not matter how many times those lies are repeated.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Iraq (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 117 comments

  •  Comments and Recommendations... (4.00 / 4)

    ...are welcome.
  •  Doesn't matter . . . . (3.75 / 4)

    if Hilary is pro-war, pro-peace, pro-whatever . . .  what she is Pro-Democrat DEFEAT in 2008 if she's the nominee.  

    SHE CANNOT WIN!!!!!!

    Repeat after me:  

    SHE CANNOT WIN
    SHE CANNOT WIN
    SHE CANNOT WIN
    SHE CANNOT WIN
    SHE CANNOT WIN

    if she runs, she'll be the ruin of the democratic party, and indirectly, the country since we'll end up with 4 more years of disastrous republican policies.  

    Repeat after me:  

    Warner, Richardson, Clark
    Warner, Richardson, Clark
    Warner, Richardson, Clark
    Warner, Richardson, Clark
    Warner, Richardson, Clark

    •  Absolutely right. (3.00 / 2)

      Non-DLC Democrats can't stand her, and Rethugs love hating her.  In fact, she's the Rethug wet dream: a center-right Democrat whom they've successfully painted as left of Stalin.
      •  center-right? (none / 0)

        Check Her voting record sometime.

        I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

        by AnnArborBlue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:04:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  She fucked herself... (none / 0)

          ...by trying to go all "centrist" and appear to be Rethug lite (which has been all the rage since 1999). Not many people counted on "Republican" being a dirty word not even a year after the elections where they all tried to show how much like them they were.

          "The pen devils set the stage for the war at home, locked without a wage....ya standing in the drop zone..."

          by Diggla on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:09:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  once again (none / 0)

            check out her voting record.

            Center-Right my ass.

            I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

            by AnnArborBlue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:11:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  sorry about that...... (none / 0)

              .....I didnt really get all of my point out as I was in a hurry when typing that. Yes her voting record is one that most around here would agree with, including myself. I meant how there was this PR push to make her "appear" more centrist and all that. It didnt change the right's opinion of her and it turned off some of the left. Basically it did more harm than good when it was unnessacary in the first place.

              "The pen devils set the stage for the war at home, locked without a wage....ya standing in the drop zone..."

              by Diggla on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:56:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Yup, (none / 1)

          for a Democrat, center-right.  Much like her husband.

          It's all a matter of perspective.  Your mileage may vary.

          •  By that token (none / 1)

            Arlen Specter is "Center-Left". Well, compared to his Party.

            Of course that ignores the fact that he casts votes like anything except a politician who is center-left.

            Just like calling CLinton center-right ignores that it doesn't correspond with her votes.

            I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

            by AnnArborBlue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:13:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, I for one (none / 0)

              won't be confusing her for Dennis Kucinich anytime soon. :-)
              •  You're really gonna make me do this? (4.00 / 3)

                2004 Interest Group Ratings:

                NARAL-100%
                humane society-100%
                US COC-50%
                ACLU-78%
                HRC-88%
                NAACP-100%
                Family Research Council-0%
                John Birch Society-33%
                NEA-85%
                League of Conservation voters-92%
                AFA-0%
                National Parent Teacher Association-93%
                Peace action-75%
                Brady Campaign-100%
                American Public Health Association-100%
                Americans for Better Immigration-0%
                AFL-CIO-100%
                American Bar Association-100%
                US PIRG-95%
                Alliance for Retired Americans-100%
                CATO-50%
                Disabled American Veterans-100%
                The Partnership for the Homeless-100%

                May we all have Senators so "conservative".

                I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

                by AnnArborBlue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:22:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  umm, yeah, and (none / 1)

                  that ACLU score ain't so hot. :-)

                  As long as you're picking out groups, does AIPAC have a score for her?

                  •  I love it (4.00 / 2)

                    I give you like 20 ratings, and you complain about a 78% rating from a group.

                    I tried to give one or two ratings from every issue, always using 2004 where possible, even when 2003 would make HRC look better.

                    If you believe I've been cherry-picking...follow the link I posted a couple posts back and click "interest group ratings".

                    And oh yeah, if the best you got is a complaint about a 78%...you're not doin so well.

                    I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

                    by AnnArborBlue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:34:02 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Well, maybe because (none / 1)

                      --animal lover that I am--I'm not sure that a ranking from the Humane Society is all that compelling.  And any public health organization that would give a 100 to someone who does NOT support government-operated universal health coverage is probably a bit conservative for my tastes.  

                      The zeroes aren't impressive; these are groups that create their scales in order to give HRC and anyone to the left of her zeroes.

                      Yeah, liking those noisome civil liberties is a symptom of "not doin' so well".  So that's what we've come to?  

                      •  That 78% (none / 1)

                        Puts her above Barbara Boxer.

                        But nice try.

                        I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

                        by AnnArborBlue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:46:43 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Now you're confusing me (none / 0)

                          for a Barbara Boxer acolyte?

                          Anything else you care to pull out of your nether quarters?

                          •  ok (none / 1)

                            that 78% puts HRC equal to or better than:

                            Wyden, Stabenow, Schumer, Sarbanes, Reed, Murray, Mikulski, Levin, Kohl, Jeffords, Feinstein, Dodd, Cantwell, Baucus, Boxer, Akaka, Rockefeller, Nelson,  Lincoln, Lautenberg, Johnson, Dayton, Bingaman, Corzine, Leahy, Pryor, Landrieu, Inouye, Dorgan, Bird, Bayh, Reid and Conrad.

                            Yup. Sure is to the right of most Dems. One of her "worst" issues, and she's still equal to or better than most.

                            I'm not a Clinton supporter for Pres, but the least you can do is be accurate in your criticisms.

                            I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

                            by AnnArborBlue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:54:16 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            •  Mostly a pretty sorry bunch. (none / 1)

                              Your point being?
                              •  that your argument was (none / 1)

                                that hillary was "Center-Right". Which you then amended to "center-right compared to other Democrats".

                                Which, it seems to me, you're now forced to amend again.

                                Your move.

                                I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

                                by AnnArborBlue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 06:01:46 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                                •  Since when (none / 0)

                                  were "center", "left", and "right" determined by percentages or proportions?  Look, in my book, support of the military-industrial complex and its adventures is pretty much an automatic disqualification from left-status.  I personally think that the left wing of the Democratic Party is pretty small.  As I've said elsewhere on this thread, your mileage may vary.  
                                  •  I would assume "center"... (none / 1)

                                    ..."left" and "right" would be determined by how a politician votes. Since Hillary's voting record is neither center-right, nor center-right compared to her peers...your basis is, what? The IWR?

                                    And by the way, how is it that "center, left and right" are relative terms when labeling her to the right, but absolute terms when I show that she's to the left of most of her peers? Disconnect much?

                                    I want to win. You want to beat him, and that's a problem for me, because I want to win. -The West Wing

                                    by AnnArborBlue on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 06:10:20 PM PDT

                                    [ Parent ]

                •  You just cant convince some people (none / 0)

                  can you AnnArborBlue? I'm not for Clinton in 08, but geez, anyone with eyes can see she does NOT have a center-right voting record. You want to dislike her for her war stance, go ahead(I do), but dont let that blind you from the facts.  
              •  Thank God. (none / 0)

                Kucinich trailed Sharpton in vote totals.

                And there you were upthread jumping on the "she can't win" bandwagon...can we please stop pretending that this sort of crap qualifies as "logic"?

                --------
                Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

                by PBJ Diddy on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:23:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Hi Ann! (none / 0)

          While I can't argue with you about her voting record, what always confuses me about Hillary is that she really tries SO HARD to look like a moderate.

          Then again I guess we can hardly blame her... if nothing else her appearance of moderation helps to balance out the rants of all the Rush's in the world.

          In all honesty though, I'm considering voting against her in next year's primary

          "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

          by nNYKeith on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:46:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's (none / 0)

            the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

            You're a one issue voter? You must be if you're considering voitng for Greenfield.

            •  Protest votes aren't allowed? (none / 0)

              When Hillary failed to do anything to stop Bush from starting this misadventure, I said to myself and others that I'd never vote for her again...

              "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

              by nNYKeith on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 06:18:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  How could (none / 0)

                Hillary have done anything to stop Bush from his misadventures?
              •  So (none / 0)

                I suppose you didn't vote for Schumer last year then? And won't be voting for him either in the future?

                I bet you did, and I bet you will. How come HRC is held to a different standard, and how come you don't see your own hypocrisy?

                •  I'm impressed (none / 0)

                  by how readily you're making assumptions (without merit), and passing judgement...

                  "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                  by nNYKeith on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 07:04:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Did you (none / 0)

                    or didn't you, vote for Schumer?

                    If I made wrong assumptions and judgements I'll apologize. But I expect you to answer honestly if I have to eat crow.

                    So, what about Schumer?

                    •  lol (none / 0)

                      There's a reason I hesitated to answer directly. I voted against Schumy, but I can't remember who I voted for instead, which is ummm pretty lame and embarissing.

                      I don't want you to eat crow, if anything I'm the one who has to here.

                      There is another part of my dissapointment with Hillary though. I was so excited to have her representing NY, I respected her for what she tried to do with regard to healthcare. And lame as it may be I think I really took offence to how she dealth with Iraq.

                      I'm more than willing to admit that I may have been and may continue to be unreasonable about how I feel about Hillary. When I really really think about it I can't deny that in many ways I might be inclined to support her for Pres, for other reasons, and I see how that is in alot of ways pretty hypocritical of me.

                      "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                      by nNYKeith on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 07:18:32 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  Its what I said though.... (none / 0)

            ....her PR move to the "center" didn't change anyones mind at all about her except that it turned some on the left against her. This isnt like a challenge or anything, but show me where that whole stunt really made any gains for her?

            "The pen devils set the stage for the war at home, locked without a wage....ya standing in the drop zone..."

            by Diggla on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 06:03:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think she gains in the mushy middle (none / 0)

              particularly the big chunk that doesn't really pay any attention. I think that the posturing is all that alot of them see, and who knows, maybe they believe it?

              "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

              by nNYKeith on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 06:19:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Most ordinary democrats, in fact most voters, (none / 0)

        except for those on blogs, even know what the DLC is or what it stands for.

        Ask any ordinary Democrat in real life to define the DLC or what it stands for, and you will get a blank stare.

        •  All of which (none / 0)

          just makes it easier for the media to paint her as a sort of latter-day Communist.
            •  Uninformed people (none / 0)

              are remarkably easy to control.
              •  Who says they are uninformed. (none / 0)

                If they know the issues and agree with her stand on them, they don't have to know about the DLC.  The DLC is basically just an obsession of DailyKos and a couple other places.  Whether you know about it or not changes nothing if the issues are what you follow.  I am not saying that the ordinary person does not or does believe the way she does, but they don't base their beliefs on the same things bloggers here do.
                •  In case you haven't noticed, (none / 0)

                  we live in a country where a majority of voters can't name their Senators.  Let alone what they stand for.  But they do remember some of those pretty headlines and pictures on the teevee.
                  •  I'm pretty sure (none / 0)

                    half the country can't name their own siblings, more or less their Senators. They sure do like those BIG headlines and shiny graphics though. Prettyyyyy graphic......pretttyyy colors.....

                    "People got used to being Domesticated Animals"

                    by nNYKeith on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:48:07 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Your point, and how that relates to the (none / 0)

                    discussion at hand, please?
                    •  Loath as I am (none / 0)

                      to repeat myself:

                      "Non-DLC Democrats can't stand her, and Rethugs love hating her.  In fact, she's the Rethug wet dream: a center-right Democrat whom they've successfully painted as left of Stalin."

                      •  I don't want to have to repeat myself, but (none / 0)

                        non-DLC Democrats are an extremely small portion of the public.  The public is made up of voters.  Non-DLC Democrats will not make a dent, they are irrelevant compared to the people who will either support her actual stands on the issues, or not.

                        In other words, the DLC is irrelevant to most of the world except for bloggers and a couple of other groups.  

                        Rethugs will hate anyone we put up.  

                        So the idea that hateful Rethugs and non-DLCers will be against her, isn't extremely relevant.

                        •  asdf (none / 0)

                          "non-DLC Democrats are an extremely small portion of the public."

                          Let's see, non-DLC Democrats: a chunk of the Democratic Party hierarchy, as well as all of the Rethuglicans and non-party-affiliated . . . care to try again?

                          "they are irrelevant compared to the people who will either support her actual stands on the issues,"

                          Nope, lots of people will support or reject based on distorted views they've been fed by the media.

                          "Rethugs will hate anyone we put up."

                          Very true, but they'll be more effective with HRC than with most others.  Heck, by the time the race starts in earnest, they'll have had a fifteen-year head start.

                          •  I don't consider the hierarchy part of the public. (none / 0)

                            I am talking about actual voters.  And if Clinton is the nominee, the hierarchy will fall behind her.  Are you telling me that Dean is not going to support the nominee?

                            What people believe as related to what the media tells them can be influenced if we have a strong voice in the media.  Where is Dean.  He is non-DLC, but so far is not making a big splash as far as making points and claiming the spotlight.  If you are not a strong supporter of Dean, as much of the public is not, or they don't care either way, Dean has been invisible.  We or you are only noticing him because you are especially tuned in to him.

                            As far as the DLC goes, I'll say again, the general public, including independents do not know the difference technically.  What they do know, those of them paying attention, is not whether or not a person is a member of the DLC, but whether or not the person represents their own views.  The views of the public, are more conservative than views here, by many miles.  

                            There are a lot of pros to how they might view Clinton by 2008.  Her husband was popular and nostalgically looks like Einstein compared to Bush.  

                            Why don't we give it a run in the primaries and see who is the best candidate.  If as you say, most of the democratic party is against her, they will have their chance to exercise their power or lack of it then.

                            Dean has a lot of work to do if he is to influence the party in his direction, and the primaries will show what philosphy  has made the biggest impression on the electorate.

                •  I would say... (none / 1)

                  ...that they are uninformed if the dont know who the DLC is...or atleast not paying attention. And the DLC is worthy of the loathsome sentiments that it gets because their presense in the party totally undermines much of the progressive push from the left. They are basically the business wing of the democrat party and that is where all of their loyalty lies....with business.

                  "The pen devils set the stage for the war at home, locked without a wage....ya standing in the drop zone..."

                  by Diggla on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 06:08:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  I think your keyboard got stuck. n/t (none / 0)

    •  Warner is about as centrist as she is... (none / 0)

      Richardson was no big help when we wanted a recount in his state...

      Clark is the best of the three.

      Do you dislike the DLC or just Hillary. If you dislike the DLC then check the list again. You'll find Warner on it.

      Or do ye just want to win, regardless?

      "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

      by Kerrycrat on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:24:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Feingold ... (none / 0)

      Please ... please ... please ...

      A political fanzine containing random musings about politics, music, the media and modern times: Politizine

      by politizine2 on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 06:36:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't hate Hillary (4.00 / 7)

    nor am I going to troll-rate you, nor do I hate the thought of a female president, nor do I hate the Clintons.

    But for me, here's what it comes down to--from her own letter: As I said in my October 2002 floor statement, I took "the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a U.N. resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible."

    That's why I don't like her. That's why I don't like John Kerry or John Edwards either. I didn't trust this fuckwit of a President, and I didn't have access to any sort of classified intel. So why did they? Had Bush done anything up to that point to warrant any sort of trust? Simple answer--no--and all the backfilling and "this is what I was really voting for" in the world doesn't change the fact that when the rubber met the road, they trusted a guy who I wouldn't trust to walk across the street alone.

    Don't get me wrong--if she's the nominee, I'll vote for her--but don't ask for anything more from me for a person who trusted the SOB in the White House on anything.

    I want to die like my grandfather, peacefully in my sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    by incertus on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 04:56:22 PM PDT

    •  And lets be honest... (4.00 / 7)

      they didn't trust him either (or if they did, that automatically makes them a bad Democrat in my mind), they just voted for the resolution because they were worried about political reprecussions.  They cared more about their position in the Senate or House than they did about whether or not thousands of Americans died!

      That's reason enough for me for you to not be President.  The lives of Americans should always be more important than your political position.

      Feingold is my hero.

      by Marc in CA on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:19:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dead on correct buddy! (none / 0)

      :-)

      A political fanzine containing random musings about politics, music, the media and modern times: Politizine

      by politizine2 on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 06:37:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Whatever she is, (none / 1)

    she sure is taking a much needed stand for family values and protecting the youth of today from moral corruption with some fantastically retarded video game legislation!

    This woman has no shame. Ugh, who wouldn't vote for a genuine, moderate Republican over her?

  •  If you say so (none / 1)

    and she says so, then there's no reason she shouldn't be a candidate for the presidency.

    I can't pull up a link right now but on more than one occasion she stated that even knowing what she knows today, invading Iraq was the right thing to do.  Her only problem with the whole thing then was that Bush did a miserable job of it.

    I don't hate Hillary.  I just won't vote for her.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 04:59:03 PM PDT

    •  running to catch the train that left 2 weeks ago (none / 0)

      It's called getting in the line behind Edwards and Murtha, but not quite ready to admit as they did, that  "it[vote] was wrong, a mistake." That letter is to test the waters and she's parroting Murtha's proposals-without, imo, giving him due credit. A few months ago, upon her return from Iraq, Hillary sang a different song.

      Thing is here's my larger beef;  too so many Senators and congresscritters don't read the legislation before casting a vote. And under Bush's fashionable flag wrap, 'keep us safe and secure' they took our liberties and gave us a war. Never mind that other countries were saying in public and telling us privately Iraq was contained, the UN has sealed and or destroyed the wmds.

      Pre-emptive wars are crimes against the peace, a bedrock principle the US included in setting up Nuremberg Tribunal. But we've shown principles be dammed.

      for those who want and wish dynasties, or for those who think 'vote Hillary, bring back Bill' then in '08 let's have the duel

      Hillary vs Jeb.
      Yea he said he won't. But it won't be Hillary left standing.

      Let's stop feeding greed. In fact, propose we make it a commandment: The greedy shall not be fed.

      by idredit on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 06:07:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I won't vote for her either (none / 0)

      And there are enough folks who won't that '08's primary season is going to be a short one for her. I'd like to know what anyone is doing trying to even guess the nominee this far ahead of that primary season. History itself calls that foolish.

      There are some educated guesses we can make. The American electorate as a whole, it seems, is yearning for some new faces.

      It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

      by Fishgrease on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 07:49:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's sure taken HRC (none / 0)

    long enough to come up with even this, which I find quite unsatisfactory.  Lots of equivocation and soft-pedaling.  She's still blabbering Bushspeak: "war on terror", "fight against terrorism", and "reform[ing] our intelligence system so we never go to war on false premises again"--as if it were the intelligence system, and not its forced manipulation by BushCo, which were at fault.  And finally, to place so much weight on a new round of elections whose results will no doubt be as phony as the previous ones is already quite breathtaking.

    It's a baby step, but she still needs to learn to walk the walk.

    •  I imagine HC (none / 1)

      is hearing a lot lately.

      Hillary, You're Not Listening

      "Part of my job is being a good listener," Hillary Clinton wrote, in the first line of her letter received today. As a New Yorker, I'm represented by Hillary in the U.S. Senate. Along with her two-page fundraising letter, I received a four-page "2005 Critical National Issues Survey."

      But something was missing -- something Hillary obviously doesn't want to hear about: IRAQ.
      Nowhere in the letter or the questionnaire was that four-letter word.

      Hillary's first question asked me to rank nine issues in their "order of importance." Iraq wasn't on the list. Nor was there a place I could add an issue she'd somehow forgotten about.

      The problem is she hadn't forgotten the war. She simply doesn't want to hear about one of the biggest issues dividing our country, draining the federal budget, destabilizing the Middle East, undermining international law and institutions, and spreading fear and hatred of our country.

      [snip]

      Hillary's letter ended with a P.S.: "Please return your completed survey with a generous contribution within 10 days."

      I immediately returned the survey...with the word "IRAQ" scrawled across it in marker. But there was no "generous contribution." I'm keeping my checkbook open for candidates ready to challenge Bush's extreme agenda, at home and in Iraq -- and to challenge Hillary as well.

  •  At last (4.00 / 2)

    I have to say, that I have been a big Hillary supporter from the very first, and I have been very, very disappointed in her on this issue.

    I recently received a survey questionnaire from her, seeking my feedback on what I think about the issues.  In the first part, she listed about ten issues, asking that they be put in order from most important to least important.  IRAQ WAS NOT EVEN ON THE LIST!  THE WAR WAS NOT ON THE LIST!These are by far the most important issues before her today, and she seems unconscious about them.

    On a more fundamental level, I have to add, THE DESTRUCTION OF OUR DEMOCRACY BY THE FASCIST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY WAS NOT ON THE LIST!

    All the things she listed were important issues, like Medicare, and abortion.  But Jeez!  How can she not even think that Iraq is one of the top ten issues that people care about???????????

    I'm glad to see her coming out with something now, but if this is all she's got, it's a case of too little, too late.  No guts.  No principles.  No convictions.  Just looks like she's trying to play the angles, play it safe, not get left behind as the bandwagon leaves.  

    •  Yeah, I got that as well... (4.00 / 2)

      I posted my reaction to it a few months ago:

      Despite living in another state, I received some bone-headed questionnaire/donate to my quest to retain my seat tripe from Hillary. The seriousness of all the issues, to which I was supposed to assign a numerical value according to how important I considered them to be, made me pause. Each was of a magnitude that defied assigning anything but the highest importance to. Unfortunately, a wholesale paradigm change is needed before anything genuine can happen. I'm not so naive as to think that politicians will give up being politicians, but honesty, or at the very least, a frank political discourse, is just about the only thing that will affect the kind of genuine change needed to address the issues Hillary laid out to get people all fired up.

      I'm looking for someone to step up, and it ain't Hillary. I left the questionnaire blank except for the picture of her with Santorum and Brownback, which I stapled inside and under which, wrote "Give me a break."

    •  You didn't get a survey; (none / 0)

      you got a donation solicitation masquerading as a survey.  This is a common fundraising tactic.  Just see if her office ever publishes the results.
      •  not a good costume either (none / 0)

        This is some form, I got the same damn thing from Pelosi until I called and asked that they quit insulting me.

        The questions are akin to a Lou Dobbs poll?

        How concerned are you that your children are being poisoned?

        _ Very concerned
        _ Somewhat concerned
        _ Not at all concerned
        _ More poison, family-sized please!

        •  put me down (none / 0)

          for "more poison, family sized"...

          Yes, I know it's fund-raising tactic, but my point is that the questionnaire is so f**king clueless about Iraq, creeping fascism, etc. that it's just breathtaking.

          So I sent her a little $ (I assume they won't pay any attention to a non-donor, but might pay some little bit to a source of cash) and wrote in my top three issues that weren't on her list, along with a screaming plea that she wake up and speak up, for God's sake.

          Of course, it's just a coincidence that she decided to do so just after receiving my response...

  •  Thanks (4.00 / 2)

    I am definitely a fence-sitter with HRC. There is a lot about her to like.  I appreciate you providing a pro-hillary forum so it can balance the haters, and at least it can help me learn more about her, the good and the bad etc.  Thanks again.

    ~whatever we need is what is given

    by petercjack on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:03:23 PM PDT

  •  She is Just... Laughably Irrelevant (4.00 / 5)

    The American people want out of the Bushiter's War and they are not buying the line-o-crap from the enablers.

    Hillary and Lieberthing are being marooned in Iraq by their own hand.

    Nobody is buying the 'Transformative Power of Iraq' crap any more because we all know that it just transforms living people into dead ones and transforms billions of taxpayer dollars into Halliburton loot.

    So... With tears in my eyes, I wave good-bye, and shake my head. She might have been a contender.

    But no more...

    LL
     

    "No AMERICAN requires authorization to do the right thing."

    by LeftyLimblog on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:03:24 PM PDT

  •  Not a warmonger (4.00 / 6)

    But willing to let others be warmongers. And yes, that's what the IWR vote was about, contrary to her assertions in this letter. That's reason enough for me not to vote for her.
  •  She needs to be more forthcoming like this........ (none / 0)

    ......in public and on the campaign trail. She defended a bunch of ill policies long after it was even politically advantageous to be doing so. I haven't drank the "Kool-aid of the Anti Hillary" crowd, Im anti Hillary (for pres) because of a whole load of other things she is into that mainly stem from the Pro Big Business, Pro Death penalty DLC crap she is all caught up in. This letter is what her base wants but I want to hear her saying this all over the place....not just to donors and friends on her email list.

    "The pen devils set the stage for the war at home, locked without a wage....ya standing in the drop zone..."

    by Diggla on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:05:22 PM PDT

  •  She can write letters all she wants (4.00 / 4)

    Where was she when the other Democrats were standing up and saying that the Administration purposely tried to mislead Congress?  Where was she when other Democrats were supporting John Murtha?

    She was nowhere to be found! that's where!

    Senator Clinton has been a follower, not a leader.  She has played it safe and stayed out of the public eye.  And this is a Senator representing one of the most liberal states in the nation who has grown tremendously sour and bitter about this war over the last couple years.

    I don't hate her, I just can't stand that everybody assumes that she should be the next nominee of the Democratic party.  Just because her husband was President shouldn't make her any more eligible or better choice for President.

    Feingold is my hero.

    by Marc in CA on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:16:37 PM PDT

  •  Save your breath. (4.00 / 4)

    the AH crowd around here is immune from reason.

    They will cock their noses upward and flip the lever for Russ Feingold, then turn around and claim "Hillary can't win". Yep.

    They will say she isn't liberal or progressive enough, then turn around and praise Harry Reid -- about 20 senators further to her right in the spectrum of 100. Uh-huh.

    They will claim she is the death of the democratic party, when she is MORE progressive than her husband, who was the only life the democratic party has had in the last THIRTY FUCKING YEARS.

    They just don't like her - no reason - and you can easily prove the irrationality of that by asking who they DO support, since Hillary has no particularly unique positions, and can be matched nearly exactly to all the major candidates on most issues. Most likely the majority of them are campaign plants from other candidates, the GOP, or as you suggest -- kool-aid drinkers.

    She is a fine democrat, a fine senator and would make a fine president. Is there better? Sure, me, for instance (although I've lied about blowjobs routinely in my life...claiming to have recieved them when I had, in fact not.) but it's a waste of time to try to explain to this lot why a politician is acting so ...political. Sadly, they don't recognize it (or refuse to see it) in their own sainted idols (cough, Warner, cough, cough Clark).

    --------
    Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

    by PBJ Diddy on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:16:49 PM PDT

    •  asdf (none / 1)

      "They will claim she is the death of the democratic party, when she is MORE progressive than her husband, who was the only life the democratic party has had in the last THIRTY FUCKING YEARS."

      Wow, talk about damning with faint praise!  Bill Clinton, the guy who won against the spectacularly inept Bushdaddy, and then against some walking corpse from Kansas . . . having in the interim lost Congress big time.

      Supporting Harry Reid over HRC has nothing to do with misunderstanding their respective positions, and everything to do with the frank realization that HRC will never overcome the spectacularly bad press the right-wing media has been giving her constantly since at least 1992--a problem Harry Reid doesn't suffer from.  Yet.

    •  Oh yeah... that works (none / 0)

      Calling us Koolaid drinkers will win us over to Hillary.

      I can feel my concerns slip away!

      It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

      by Fishgrease on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 02:40:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not my job to win you over... (none / 1)

        it's your job to think for yourself instead of believing the knee-jerk anti-Hillary BS floating around here. Fact is, you may prefer another candidate, fine. However to use the hyperbole about Clinton that is being flung around here ("death of the democratic party!", "Republican-lite") serves only one master -- the GOP slime machine. Clinton is virtually indistinguishable from most of the alternative democrats on her positions. Some are further right, some left, but overall, she is in the left heart of the democratic party. Not a centrist, not a right-winger, and while she's no Hubert Humphrey, she's also no Joe Lieberman. If it's style, well, I can appreciate that, after all a lot of people vote for Prez. based on superficial qualities, but then let's be honest about it, and not pretend we're debating weighty matters of policy. Let's just be frank and say, "She rubs me the wrong way". Of course, I don't take such folk seriously, but they still have a right to vote...and I have a right to call them "kool-aid drinkers."

        --------
        Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

        by PBJ Diddy on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 04:14:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  But...but.... (none / 0)

    Hillary's a DLC shill!  She's a shameless, power-hungry opportunist!  She's another Republican!  We hate her!  She's a kitten-eating reptilian from outer space!!!

    (beer for anyone who recognizes that last)

  •  is Hillary fighting for us? (none / 1)


    Dean and Reid are the faces and voices of our party, fighting the Bushies in the trenches.  I dont see or hear Hillary anywhere.  I heard her husband call Iraq a big mistake, but not her.

    I could accept her position on Iraq if she was loud and sharp in her criticism of Bush et al. Why can't she speak like Dean or Reid or hell, even Kerry or Edwards.  I want to hear something quotable from her, like "I was wrong" or "big mistake."  Or publically call Bush a liar like Reid did.

    Until then she is irrelevant.

    Bush hasn't choked this much since his last pretzel.

    by Brent Reilly on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:24:30 PM PDT

    •  Exactly!! (none / 0)

      She hides while others fight.  I looked on her website after Harry shut down the Senate:  Not a word about it!  I imagine she's too afraid of alienating the Independents in '08 by sounding "too partisan" now.  Bad strategy, Hillary.  Nobody's going to elect a milquetoast President.  
  •  This is simple. (4.00 / 2)

    When it comes to voting for President, here are two things I don't want to see in a candidate:

    1. They voted for the war.

    2. They pander to the cultural right.

    HRC's been doing both, so...
  •  Pragmatist? (none / 1)

    She is a pragmatist when it comes to foreign policy, a requisite for anyone to become president, and certainly a requisite for anyone who attains that position.

    I would use the word opportunist

    As a New York Senator, I believe New York has a special bond with the victims of such terrorism, and we understand both the need to fight terrorism and the need for a clear plan in Iraq so that we can focus our resources in the right ways to prevent it from again reaching our shores.

    How many Iraqis were involved when terrorism reached our shores? This woman is beneath contempt, for once again she conflates 9/11 with the war on Iraq. These are Rovian talking points!

  •  Hillary (none / 0)

    My feeling about Hillary are none of what you write:

    "flat out hate Hillary, the Clintons or the thought of a woman as president, "

    I think we need new blood in the party.  I am tired of repug lite and that is what Clinton, Lieberman and Biden etc are.

    We need to stress the virtue of Progressive thought.  But rather we defend it, sometimes very meekly.

    Why has she written a letter rather than come out with a statement for ALL to hear?  Is she floating a trial balloon?  (I think she is.)  Why doesn't she present an idea or two rather than continue with the same worn out rhetoric:

    "We must set reasonable goals to finish what we started and successfully turn over Iraqi security to Iraqis."

    I want a person with the presence of mind to have a real conviction.  Akin to Howard Dean's early days.

  •  She was hedging her bet (none / 1)

    Just like many other democrats Hillary didn't want to be on the wrong side politically if it turned out to be the promised cakewalk so that she and others (Kerry, Lieberman, Biden, et al) could claim in the 2004 elections that they were doing the right thing.

    Now that the debacle has gone beyond the tipping point she is doing what the others are doing and executing her CYA plan to shift the onus to the administration.

    If there is anyone in America that isn't clear about the fact the Hillary was, and still is, being positioned for a presidential run then it is time to wake up. Her actions have always been to maintain that upcoming presidential run and do nothing to jeopardize it.

    Now with the democrats and republicans lining up on what appears to be a bipartisan approach to an exit strategy you will see a republican introduced resolution that the democrats will support that will effectively give W cover should things go wrong. And the democrats with 2008 presidential aspirations are jumping as fast as they can on that bandwagon before it pulls out of the station. This is, of course, simply hedging another bet.

    The democrats should be speaking out and saying that President Bush as commander in chief can, with the stroke of a pen and without any further resolutions of congress, disengage the United States from the war in Iraq. That the president, and the president alone, bears the responsibility for the failures of the Iraq war. That the president has not acknowledged his responsibility for these faliures. And that the president shall be held accountable. But that isn't the kind of language we are seeing.

    Why are there no dems will to take that posture? Is there no dem out there that is willing to do the right thing rather than play it safe? Why are dems so willing to share the disasterous outcome of this debacle?
     

  •  quaffing kool-aid isn't why i dislike her (4.00 / 3)

    first, thanks so much for the pre-emptive ad hominum. a remark truly worthy of, shall we say, certain republicans.

     why i do not like or trust hillary clinton is very easy. she is a dishonset person who has placed her political career ahead of her duty to her country.

    in the fall of 2002 and the debates to authorize bush to us force in iraq, she knew what bush would likely do, her better than almost any, she knew, yet to cloak herself in "moderation" she went along with the bushevik lies.

    just like kerry did, just like edwards did... all three angling, all willing to use american military bodies for future political consideratons.

    But with all the gobblydegoop in her essay above, it comes too late, it comes too late for 2100 dead americans, 15,000 wounded ones.

    where was she 12, 18, 24, and 36 months ago? she was watching her ass to insure that her political career would remain undamaged.

    America does not need politicians who express principles when they are conveniently supported by the polls, we need politicians who hold us to principles precisely because they are unpopular, and call us to rise above ourselves.

    she flunks the test.

    and so did kerry and i held my nose when i voted for him.

    "There are many truths of which the full meaning cannot be realized until personal experience has brought it home." John Stuart Mill

    by kuvasz on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 05:51:00 PM PDT

    •  Thanks, kuvasz! (none / 0)

      Actually, if HRC is the Democratic Party candidate, I'll vote for her--holding my nose.  But her fan club makes it even more difficult than her own behavior does.
    •  kuvasz (none / 0)

      why have you come to the conclusion that she's dishonest? Hopefully, that doesn't have anything to do with the $50 million publicly-funded character assassination smear by the Republicans known as the so-called Whitewater "investigation."
      •  why of course! i was brainwashed! (none / 0)

        you have shown me the light and errors of my way. how could have i been seduced so?

        Praise Jesus!

        thank you for questioning whether I have the abiity to see for myself the disengenuiousness of the woman and her actions or if I was simply confused by the VRWC.

        you got TB; True Believerism and apparently, and most likely because she is a woman, think the suns shines out Hillary Clinton's asshole.

        Not everything in the press is planted by the Sciafe press mob, and her stance and votes in fall of 2002 and beyond are recorded, as is her virtual silence in the proceeding months to the iraq invasion.

        she kept her mouth shut and head down. all the while those who calculated that their honor lay in speaking up for the good of the country raised their voices AND DAMMIT, WE MARCHED against bush and his insane invasion.

        where was hillary clinton then?

        those are not conjured fantasies by right wing bullshit artists. those are the facts.

        she is every bit as smart and ambitious as her husband, but devoid of his sense of campassion, I don't trust her to hold to any set of principles. she will cast off anyone and anything for political gain.

        if I want that from my nation's leader i can get it by voting for a republican.

        "There are many truths of which the full meaning cannot be realized until personal experience has brought it home." John Stuart Mill

        by kuvasz on Tue Nov 29, 2005 at 08:08:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I am not (none / 1)

    ready, for a Clinton "dynasty". I have suffered enough with the Bush "dynasty". Maybe we could try a smart, young guy like Russ Feingold? Kind of like air freshener.

    Best, mikolo

  •  She still doesn't get it (4.00 / 2)

    I believe we are at a critical point with the December 15th elections that should, if successful, allow us to start bringing home our troops in the coming year, while leaving behind a smaller contingent in safer areas with greater intelligence and quick strike capabilities. This will advance our interests, help fight terrorism and protect the interests of the Iraqi people.

    It sure sounds like she wants to keep US troops in Iraq permanently. It is not our country. We have no right to keep American bases in their country.

    Furthermore, the Iraq war has absolutely zilch to do with the war on terror. Rather, it has made the war on terror much more difficult. There really does not seem to much difference between Hillary's position on the war vs McCain's position.

    I'm very disappointed.

    •  Actually now Iraq has a lot to do with (none / 0)

      terror.  It is probably the terror capital of the world, now.  It is going to produce them faster than bunnies.  Thanks to us.
      •  So you're proposing we ... ? (none / 0)

        •  Unlike many here, I am not absolutely sure (none / 0)

          what we should do down to the very last detail.  I do think we should get out of there, but even Murtha's six months is not believable.  Common sense would tell you that we could not remove all of our troops, equipment, etc. in 6 months.

          Considering that the election is only a short time off, 3 weeks?  We are going to be there full force anyway on election day.  So, everyone criticizing Clinton for deciding at the time of the election is a mute point.  It's silly.

          I don't think we should be there permanently, but realistically it is going to take a little longer than immediately.

      •  Not according to the CIA (none / 0)

        Reports from the CIA states that some 90% of the insurgency is from Iraqis. Only a small portion is foreign based. I don't have the link available, but this was based on article on msn.com just last week.
        In Iraq, it is basically suniis fighting shiite's. Whether we leave or stay, this is most likely to continue.

        Furthermore, Osama bin Laden and the Al-Queda leadership are not in Iraq. By most reports, they are somewhere in Pakistan/Afghanistan, not Iraq.

        •  Terrorists don't have to reside in Iraq. (none / 0)

          The Middle East will produce terrorists due to their resentment at the US' and the western worlds involvement in the Middle East.  The Iraqi war is their instigation.

          Do you believe the CIA? Of course they have been wrong before. In fact we have a real problem with intelligence on the ground in Iraq.  One of the problems that precipitated this whole affair.  How does the CIA actually know who the insurgents are?   I don't think that there is a conscensus on who exactly makes up the insurgents.  Since the borders are so ungaurded, and other surrounding countries (their people) have some interest in Iraq and power over it, I tend to believe that a lot of the insurgents may be "helpers" from other countries.  One of the reasons that Daddy Bush did not go into Iraq in '91 is that it would leave a power vacuum and encourage surrounding countries such as Iran to fill the vacuum.  This is one thing I always agreeed with Bush I on.  Smarter than Baby Bush in many ways.

    •  Permanent bases? (none / 0)

      Yes, after one of trips with McCain to Afghanistan and Iraq, she said that she agreed with permanent bases.

      Hillary (actually her handlers and HRC) obviously believe that because she is a woman, she must act tough. That is one reason why a president Hillary would be such a horrible disaster: she will never deny the Pentagon (MCI) one damn dollar. It's part of the perpetual campaign.

  •  Dear Senator Clinton: (4.00 / 3)

    Having read your well-crafted letter, I am very perplexed. Considering that meetings concerning the "reconstruction of Iraq"  were being held in openly in Washington long before the IWR vote, I find it difficult that anyone of average intelligence would not have understood completely what "reconstruction" meant. I knew.

    And when it comes to giving the president a blank check for war--let's not kid ourselves: it was war--believing that somehow any intelligence pointed to a conclusion that Saddam posed an "imminent" threat, would seem a hasty act.

    In fact Senator Clinton, the more serious neglect on the part of those who made this irreversible mistake, was thinking that an invasion of Iraq was ever a good strategy. Not recognizing the worst geopolitical blunder that our country has ever made, should cause any voter pause when considering someone to serve as CiC.

    You see Senator Clinton, I live in the middle of the woods, and I knew what Bush was up to. And I knew from the facts that I researched. Now how did that happen? It was your husband who received a letter from the Project for the New American Century outlining this very rush to war in Iraq. Am I to believe that somehow you didn't know who these people were and what their plans were?

    So Senator Clinton, when I was spending money, volunteering my time, and marching against this war, you weren't any where to be seen. That is not leadership, just as writing this poll-driven letter to say "oops" is not leadership. It does not bring back our country's treasure or blood.

    This well-crafted letter insults my intelligence. While it may be great that you finally caught on, you will never catch up.

  •  Where has she been? (none / 0)

    I've been waiting for a statement of her position and, now that it's not really necessary or particularly useful, here it is.  I'm sick of her waiting to see which way the wind is blowing before she so much as twitches.  Not to say that she is so much worse than many others have been over the past three years, but in someone with so much capacity, her unwillingness to take a stand (if it wasn't sheer mistaken judgment) is incredibly dissapointing.

    Where was she in 2002-03?  Where was she when Iraq was left falling apart after the "Mission Accomplished."  Nowhere.  And it's a damn shame.

    This statement is too little and too late.  

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