Daily Kos

Iraq: Violence, Torture, Election "Irregularities" . . . Quagmire

Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:06:38 PM PDT

With the December 15, 2005 Iraq election scheduled to be the latest installment in The Myth of Purple Finger, here's an update on the Iraq Debacle.

Torture in Iraq Prisons:

An Iraqi government search of a detention center in Baghdad operated by Interior Ministry special commandos found 13 prisoners who had suffered abuse serious enough to require medical treatment, U.S. and Iraqi officials said Sunday night.

An Iraqi official with firsthand knowledge of the search said that at least 12 of the 13 prisoners had been subjected to "severe torture," including sessions of electric shock and episodes that left them with broken bones. "Two of them showed me their nails, and they were gone," the official said on condition of anonymity because of security concerns.

. . . U.S. troops found the first site last month when they entered an Interior Ministry building in central Baghdad to look for a Sunni Arab teenager they believed had been detained, officers said at the time. Several prisoners at that site appeared to have suffered beatings, and many were emaciated, U.S. and Iraqi officials and witnesses said.

Election irregularities:

With just four days to go until parliamentary elections, the Iraqi electoral commission said today that it had found irregularities in voter registration in the volatile northern oil city of Kirkuk. The discovery was the first instance of an election irregularity announced by the commission as the country prepared for the vote on Thursday.

The commission said experts conducting an audit of voter lists found that there had been an unexpected surge in voter registration in the area. When the experts scrutinized the voter registration forms, the commission said in a written statement, they found that many had been filled out incorrectly. Some had missing signatures and others had more than one signature. In some cases, the same name appeared on several forms.

. . . The election commission said today that Kirkuk had an average 45 percent increase in voter registration across the region, compared with an average 8.19 percent increase across Iraq. That prompted experts to look at the registration forms that had been turned in recently.

Violence:

An American soldier was killed when a vehicle struck a concealed bomb in western Baghdad during a patrol today, the American military said. The deaths brought to six the number of American soldiers killed in attacks since Friday in Iraq. Four American soldiers were killed in or near the capital on Saturday, and another died on in a suicide car bombing aimed at a group of soldiers in the Abu Ghraib neighborhood, according to the military.

The suicide attack on Friday also wounded 11 soldiers and an Iraqi civilian, the military said.

Leaving soon? Not likely:

Four days before parliamentary elections in Iraq that the Bush administration has portrayed as a "significant milestone," the American ambassador there and a Republican lawmaker cautioned today against assuming that the vote would produce quick and dramatic improvement or lead to a rapid withdrawal of United States forces.

Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad said the elections would underscore the rising importance of the political process - and, he hopes, rising Sunni participation in that process - and should accelerate a gradual reduction in the military presence. He predicted that Sunni parties would win 40 to 55 seats in the 275-seat assembly, with no party gaining a majority. That would give the Sunnis a "critical role" in talks on a new constitution.

"Our hope and expectation is that violence and use of the military will become less important," he said on "This Week" on ABC television. "I do anticipate a set of circumstances in the aftermath of the election where we can begin to reduce numbers significantly." But, he added: "I do not anticipate that that change will take place very quickly. In the best of circumstances, it will take time and change incrementally."

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Tags: Iraq, War, Bush Administration, Iraq Elections, Torture (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 56 comments

  •  Remember May 2003 ... (3.83 / 6)

    ...when some of the NeoCons said we'd start pulling troops out by Christmas of that year?

    I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

    by Meteor Blades on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:08:42 PM PDT

    •  I remember (none / 1)

      One of my friends said we'd be out within a year.
    •  Wolfowitz said (none / 1)

      only 30k troops by the end of 2003.

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:21:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it's a shame that this guy leads now the WB (nt) (none / 0)

      •  That's because that's all they (none / 0)

        expected to need to man the permanent bases and missile installations.  Obviously, they're still holding on to the pipe-dream that Iraq will be Germany-east, a significant component of the "missile defense shield."

        How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

        by hannah on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 01:47:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wolfie's singing a different tune today. (none / 0)

        He still defends going to war (as he was one of the principle architects of the friggin' thing) but he's also acknowledging that the US isn't doing enough to help out the rest of the planet in non-military ways...including financially.  Apparently, the World Bank has forced a shred of humanity to surface within him.  I'm surprised bush hasn't pulled him out yet.

        Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

        by darthstar on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 07:58:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  No Problem (4.00 / 2)

      Oct. 19, 2003

      U.S.  Officials say they're considering reducing U.S. troop levels in Iraq by 2004.

      Cut in Iraq troops eyed for 2004

      Gradual exit strategy tied
      to country's stability

      By Thomas E. Ricks
      THE WASHINGTON POST

      WASHINGTON, Oct. 19 --  U.S. military commanders have developed a plan to steadily cut back troop levels in Iraq next year, several senior Army officers said in recent interviews.

        THERE NOW are 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. The plan to cut that number is well advanced and has been described in broad outline to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld but has not yet been approved by him. It would begin to draw down forces next spring, cutting the number of troops to fewer than 100,000 by next summer and then to 50,000 by mid-2005, officers involved in the planning said.

      "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

      by muledriver on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:31:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Soldiers entering Iraq in March 2003 (none / 1)

      were told they'd be home by the 4th of July.

      Dems will not hold impeachment hearings while Bill is campaigning with Hillary.

      by annefrank on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:35:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "The road home goes through Baghdad" (none / 0)

        This they were told when they launched the invasion from Kuwait.

        As they donned the CBW gear and Saddams missiles roared overhead.

        Almost 3 years later, 80% of the Iraqis would vote for the Coalition to leave immediately if they were allowed to vote on that.

        How bad will it be in another 2 years?

        Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action -1.75 -7.23

        by Shockwave on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:42:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Remember "Shock And Awe" (4.00 / 2)

      The Iraq citizens would be so overwhelmed by our military might they would passively submit to our conquest. Oh well. Hubris come, Hubris go.

       

    •  Everybody swallowed that lie willingly. (none / 0)

      Neocons, TV Talking Heads, anyone voting in support of the war told that lie to America and to themselves...Christmas, Christmas, Christmas...like it's some kind of magical fuckin' date that will end all the violence we started.  If they were worried about bringing troops home by Xmas, they shouldn't have fuckin' sent them in the first place.

      Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

      by darthstar on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:01:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Photo: What they found in that 2nd torture prison (none / 0)

      Photo: What they found in that 2nd torture prison today

      It's not a pretty picture by a long shot, so I won't post it here directly.

      My question is, how much longer are we going to put up with this shit? The Iraq interim government is widely seen as a US client.

      Recall what happened in the "first" Iraq vote on Sunday Febrauary 6, 2005?

      http://www.livejournal.com/...

      Oh yeah, that photo:

      http://www.livejournal.com/...

      I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.

      by ccnwon on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:21:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Steadfast progress, bush calls it. (none / 0)

        We helped create this.

        Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

        by darthstar on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:32:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, we did (none / 0)


          Although responsibility is diffuse, we are complicit. I know this is tough to accept.

          The least we can do is stand against torture in some effective way of our own choosing.

          "The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles."

          --Ayn Rand, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, 1966
          US (Russian-born) novelist (1905 - 1982)

          I am not a Randian but I can agree with her statement.

          ...Marc

          I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.

          by ccnwon on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:43:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  One of the leading Sunni clerics is pushing (none / 0)

            for people to vote in the elections, and says that Al Qaeda wouldn't be in Iraq if the US wasn't.  Don't know his name...just caught the story on NPR as I was driving to work this morning.

            Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

            by darthstar on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:55:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Rumsfeld's "untidiness" continues (none / 0)

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:19:43 PM PDT

  •  Hey George, do you remember Osama? We do! (none / 0)

    Next Thursday is a date beyond the latest plot point in Iraq.

    December 15, 2005 will be four years since Osama bin Laden escaped from the caves of Tora Bora. He should have been caught, but clueless George let him get away:

    CIA field commander..., Gary Berntsen, says he and other U.S. commanders did know that bin Laden was among the hundreds of fleeing Qaeda and Taliban members. [snip] "He was there," Berntsen tells NEWSWEEK. [snip]

    In his book--titled "Jawbreaker"--the decorated career CIA officer criticizes Donald Rumsfeld's Defense Department for not providing enough support to the CIA and the Pentagon's own Special Forces teams in the final hours of Tora Bora [snip] That backs up other recent accounts, including that of military author Sean Naylor, who calls Tora Bora a "strategic disaster" because the Pentagon refused to deploy a cordon of conventional forces to cut off escaping Qaeda and Taliban members.

    How should we call attention to this shameful anniversary?

    Bin Laden's escaped may turn out to be Bush's biggest error. Now Al Qaeda has two life-fire training camps: Iraq and Afganistan.

    As we debate the Iraq War, we should remember Osama. Bush said the other day that everything was moving along according to the plan--unfortunately its bin Laden's plan

    Bush's folly makes bin Laden stronger everyday. We not only need a plan to get out of Iraq, we need to couple it with a plan to recover the lost ground on the battle with Al Qaeda.

    CIA field commander for the agency's Jawbreaker team at Tora Bora, Gary Berntsen, says he and other U.S. commanders did know that bin Laden was among the hundreds of fleeing Qaeda and Taliban members. [snip] "He was there," Berntsen tells NEWSWEEK. [snip]

    In his book--titled "Jawbreaker"--the decorated career CIA officer criticizes Donald Rumsfeld's Defense Department for not providing enough support to the CIA and the Pentagon's own Special Forces teams in the final hours of Tora Bora [snip] That backs up other recent accounts, including that of military author Sean Naylor, who calls Tora Bora a "strategic disaster" because the Pentagon refused to deploy a cordon of conventional forces to cut off escaping Qaeda and Taliban members. Maj. Todd Vician, a Defense Department spokesman, says the problem at Tora Bora "was not necessarily just the number of troops."

    So let's make this "Do you remember Osama Bin Laden Week".

    His escape ranks as one of the top three demonstrations of Bush incompetence, along with Iraq and New Orleans.  

    So, George, do you remember Osama?

    Time to clean up DeLay's petri dish! Help CNMI guest workers find justice! Learn more at Unheard No More.

    by dengre on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:19:56 PM PDT

    •  Tin Foil Hat ... (none / 0)

      My "theory" is that GB struck a deal with Osama ... they won't capture him and he won't do any terrorist attacks in the US.
      •  Here is the deal I bet (none / 0)

        Bush told the Saudis: anything else bad happens in the US like 9/11, we nuke Mecca. You get Osama in some hole of a village in the middle of nowhere and keep him there. You shut up when we invade Iraq and Syria or we post the CIA videos of all the princes drinking and whoring in Monte Carlo.
      •  I am so tired (none / 0)

        of people saying things like, "Hey!  GW is doing a great job - it's been more than four years, and the US hasn't been attacked again.  That proves that fighting them over there keeps us from having to fight them over here."

        Keep in mind it was eight years between the first attack on the WTC (1993) and the second (2001).  Four years is just the initial planning phase for jihadists.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 05:00:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Can you elaborate? (none / 0)

          Because I have a friend who says that exact thing. W. is "the only person with the guts to do what needed to be done," you see, and the fact that we haven't been attacked after 9/11 proves it. I reply, "How do you know that it isn't ME who's keeping us safe?" but he's not convinced.
          •  I agree (none / 0)

            That's a bad argument.

            And I support the war in Iraq.  

            That argument is not only impossible to prove, but it will eventually backfire.

            "Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed."

            by gideon1789 on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 05:17:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  The double quote was an error. opps... (none / 1)

    Time to clean up DeLay's petri dish! Help CNMI guest workers find justice! Learn more at Unheard No More.

    by dengre on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:21:41 PM PDT

  •  Has anyone suggested using the purple finger here? (4.00 / 3)

    We're so all fired sincere about the Iraqi's showing their democratic will by voting and pointing with their purple fingers, why isn't that also a good idea here?

    Imagine the next Congressional election.  You look around your work on Wednesday and see 40% of your office with a purple finger.  Start asking what the other 60% of the people were doing on Tuesday.  If we could increase the voting in this country by 20%, it is unlikely (barring Diebold machines in every state) that the Republicans would get elected.

    My Christmas wish?  Voting machines with a numbered receipt, a vote record you can take home with you, and a spot where you can put your purple finger on the receipt to show you voted.  Then let them try to hijack an election.

    I long for the good old days where church was the place where we sang hymns and slept. (After Paula Poundstone)

    by captainlaser on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:22:59 PM PDT

  •  A dizzying amount... (4.00 / 4)

    ... of corners turned, eh?
    •  As a matter of fact (none / 0)

      We've turned so many corners...

      ...that we're right back where we started.

      ...then we kept going.

      OEF/OIF vet
      I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

      by jabbausaf on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 12:19:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'll believe there might be some troop reductions (4.00 / 3)

    Until after the election, at least.  I don't think there will be any real change in focus, goal, or plan, just a token reduction of troops for the election and then a quick return to "the course" in the interesest of "troop moral" and "national interest."  Of course anyone how wants troop reductions also desires the downfall of every american soldier and, in fact, hates freedom and loves tyranny.

    Now, happily, a nameless civilian. (Actually, my name is Robby)

    by Nameless Soldier on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 07:52:40 PM PDT

    •  I think there are going to be (none / 0)

      several announcements of troop reductions next year.  Whether those "plans" come into fruition is another story entirely.
    •  elections (none / 0)

      When are people going to learn that election mean jack shit election can be fixed rigged and there probable never has been a fair election, people love power and will cheat to get it, elections is only a way to select political leaders. That is why you need a constitution that governs politicians, and criminal penalties for the politicians that stray from the constitution. The power to prosecute politicians who stray from the constitution must be in the power of governed never in the power of government as it is now. In my opinion President Bush should be tried for murder of the national Guard people killed in Iraq. Due to the reading of the constitution.
      Article. I. Section. 8. To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;  Attacking  Iraq is not repelling an invasion.

      . If HYPOCRICY stank you cold not get with in a mile of a Republican.

      by roxnev on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 01:17:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No really (4.00 / 3)

    this is the shit. This time it's gonna work ... no ... really ...

    Read UTI, your free thought forum

    by DarkSyde on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 08:03:05 PM PDT

  •  Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad (none / 0)

    Seems very sure about the outcome and the "best case scenario."

    Rep Peter King (R)NY said this abut GW Bush's chances of winning in 2004 "it's all over but the counting, and we'll take care of the counting."  

    http://homepage.mac.com/alfredo_tomato/Wheatpaste.html

    by alfredo on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 08:21:18 PM PDT

  •  When in our history (4.00 / 3)

    has there ever been such a disjunction between the majority of our 'leadership class' - journos, pundits and pols, including national Dems - and the majority of the American people?

    The former flatter themselves with the conceit that they are fighting another WWII (with other peoples' kids).  The latter know that we are stuck and getting stucker in another Vietnam.

    As Barbara Tuchman pointed out so eloquently in her many books, men in possession of both great stupidity and great power can lead the rest of us into messes so intractable that there is no 'right', much less good, way out of them.

    None of the options now available to us will allow us to feel good about ourselves in the end, because even when we try to do good our very presence will only fuck things up the more.  We need to get out of a place where we never should have been.  Bringing the criminals to justice who caused this war is now the only honor we can give the dead.

    www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

    by chuckvw on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 08:32:05 PM PDT

    •  Unfortunately we are so far into this mess (none / 0)

      that significant troop withdrawals is going to mean that there are even less controls over al Anbar province then there are now.

      And the Shiite-dominated Army is not going to be able to subdue the Sunni province, so it will become like Somalia, a failed region with no central authority where ad hoc militias and terrorists will roam free.

      And it will be our own damn fault.

      The sad thing is that staying in al Anbar only postpones this development and ends up with more dead Americans.

      The least-bad solution (there aren't any good ones at this point) is to withdraw from al Anbar to permanent bases in Kurdistan. From there we can keep an eye on things in Iraqi Somalia.

      A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having // Swords Crossed

      by quaoar on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 10:13:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We can't assume (none / 1)

        that Iran, Israel, Syria, and, particularly with the Kurds, that Turkey will sit quietly by.  The possibility of a regional conflagration is very real - and completely beyond our control.  The busheviks screwed the pooch, and some of them still think that they'll get puppies...

        www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

        by chuckvw on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 10:28:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  you left out the civil war-to-come: (none / 0)

    Allawi predicts a 'bloody chain of evil'
    By Alan Philps, Foreign Editor, in Baghdad
    (Filed: 12/12/2005)

    Iraq is likely to descend into civil war, unleashing a wave of "evil forces" around the world, if the current government is returned to power in this week's elections, the former prime minister warned yesterday.

    [....]

    Dr Allawi believes this is the last chance to prevent Iraq collapsing into fiefdoms run by sectarian militias. There are strong signs that this is already happening, with the police being infiltrated by militias linked to parties in the ruling Shia Muslim coalition.

    "If Iraq continues down this route, Iraq will dismember and fragment," Dr Allawi said at his guarded home in Baghdad.

    "When it fragments, God forbid, it will be quite bloody. Not only for Iraq. It will trigger a chain in the whole region, and perhaps beyond, which cannot be controlled, and this will unleash evil forces throughout the world."

    Dr Allawi holds out no prospect of democracy if, as is widely expected, the current government, dominated by Shia Muslim figures with close links to Iran, triumphs.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...

    Renewal. Not mere reforms. We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.

    by killjoy on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 08:40:07 PM PDT

  •  But, "complete victory" in Iraq = a (none / 1)

    permanent US military presence (the "famous" 14 bases still being built)to control the oil for American Big Oil in a country governed by a puppet government (think Manchukuo) and a totally pacified population rendered obese by the offerings of fast-food chains and mesmerized by "reality shows". Nothing less will do and its certainly worth "staying the course"...

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Sun Dec 11, 2005 at 11:55:50 PM PDT

    •  More likely, the bases will be outfitted (none / 1)

      with missiles and nuclear warheads to put the fear of God into the Chinese and the Russians and, if the explanation is put forth that these are needed to protect the oil pipelines, China might well decided that it needs to protect its investments in Venezuela similarly.

      How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

      by hannah on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 01:53:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dubya's askin' right now (none / 0)

    Sheeeit..., how many times we gotta run this scam election thing there before 'Murkans believe they have Democracy?

    Fixing Republican screw-ups: it's what Democrats have been doing for 100 years

    by SonofFunk on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 06:29:48 AM PDT

  •  mark my words (none / 1)

    we will never leave iraq. the oil is there. if we leave we will not be in control of it. that was the only reason for going in the first place, nevermind the series of excuses that bushco has been using to justify it. the real reason has always been the oil and who might control it.

    i've got a vision... a world free of george w bush. yes!

    by titotitotito on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 07:14:08 AM PDT

  •  As Tracy Bonham once sang: (none / 0)

    I'm freezing
    I'm starving
    I'm bleeding to death
    Everything's fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine

    Yup, we're having slow but steady progress in Iraq.  Everything's fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.

  •  I can't believe.... (none / 0)

    Iraq is not a utopian democracy already. Ready to give the us all the free oil we can handle for getting rid of Saddam.

    "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." W

    by cheezehead4prez on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 07:48:09 AM PDT

    •  It's the oil (none / 0)

      Its the oil it all was the oil and never been anything but the oil. If the press was government run when you had a new President at least get rid of the forever Republican ass holes that sprew Republican shit all over the news now. The press must be free Rich rule is not free

      . If HYPOCRICY stank you cold not get with in a mile of a Republican.

      by roxnev on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 01:33:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You cannot win a war you started. (none / 0)

    There are only a couple ways to end a war(not all of them include 'winning'):

    1. The "enemy" surrenders...signs off saying they don't want to fight anymore (note...this isn't happening in Iraq...in fact, Saddam Hussein still claims to be president, which he is as the Ameripuppet gov't isn't even close to being recognized as legit)...whoopee! You won!(note also: this is the only 'winning' scenario, as far as I can figure...)

    2. The "enemy" fights off the invading force and eventually they give up and go home...Aww...next war's bowl games will be better...chin up.

    3. A cease fire (something we currently haven't considered suggesting to the insurgents in Iraq for some strange reason, as we're hell bent on winning at all costs) takes place, and eventually everyone agrees to go home and pretend they didn't really fuck each other and could we please not talk about this anymore?

    I'm sure there are other options, but these are the most obvious.

    Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:09:33 AM PDT

  •  They have no plans to leave (none / 0)

    The GOP will announce leaving and play the public with several carrot-before-the-horse troop withdrawal "plans."  Most certainly.  That's why they were so pissed when Murtha beat them to the punch.  But it's all bullshit.  Quite frankly, there is nothing in the PNAC playbook nor the Bush administration's planning which indicates that they in any way, shape, or form have a "democratic," self-determined Iraq as an ultimate goal.  Why?  How does that benefit Bush & Co?  

    A launchpad for the "reshaping" of the middle east?  That's the real plan for Iraq and unless the US public pulls rank, that's what the GOP will spend our (and Iraqis') blood and treasure to pursue.

    •  Every time your local senator/congressman (none / 0)

      says "Planned withdrawal" call their office and ask why they're lying to their constituents...and send a letter to the editor asking the same question.  Call them on their lies, and maybe they'll stop saying them.

      Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

      by darthstar on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:57:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I wonder.... (none / 0)

    what will happen when National Guard folks are asked to go back to EyeRack for...oh, say the fourth or fifth or sixth time.

    What do you think the wife and kiddies will say to daddy?

    Can you spell mutiny?

    'I'm writing as Nestor since scoop in it's awesome wisdom won't let me use my real screen name: A.Citizen'

    by Nestor Makhnow on Mon Dec 12, 2005 at 08:12:23 PM PDT

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