V for Vendetta

Recently I picked up a graphic novel at, of all places, the BX. I had no idea what it was or what it was about, except that it was a DC-Vertigo title and therefore likely to be pretty good. Turns out it was really good. Afterwards I found out that they're making a movie of it soon, which looks to be really good.

The book is "V for Vendetta", it's a graphic novel by Alan Moore. Basically it's set in what was, at the time, the future (late 90s). In the aftermath of nuclear war between Russia and the US, during which Britain was largely untouched, a facist society has established itself. Really, it's 1984 illustrated, although the storyline is different. Instead of a futile struggle again totalitarianism, this fight is much more fruitful. The V character, a failed (or perhaps too successful) experiment from the facist internment camps, kills his way through the officials responsible for creating him. Hence the Vendetta part. The underlying themes of the book, freedom from oppression, ordered anarchy, freedom from control and surveillance, will ring true for many Kossacks.

Basically I love the hell out of this book. Were we neighbors, I'd let you borrow it. Barring that, here's some links. Has anybody else read it? What do you think of it?

V for Vendetta
V for Vendetta movie

•  Sounds cool.

  I pretty much stopped reading comics after Moore did "The Watchmen".  I read them all again last week after Slate did a Watchmen article.  Still amazing.  Moore killed the whole comic genre for me (that and Frank Black's "Dark Knight" series), just like GnR killed the hair bands, and Dylan killed folk.  People come along and they just blow the whole paradigm up from the inside.  Everything afterwards just seems silly.  How does "V" stand up to Watchmen or Miracle Man?

  by gogol999 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 10:48:37 PM PDT

  •  V for Vendetta

    How does "V" stand up to Watchmen or Miracle Man?

    If Alan Moore had never written Watchmen, then V for Vendetta alone would have been enough to ensure his lasting fame. I'm slightly more familiar with Gaiman's post-Moore Miracle Man than Moore's, but from what I've read, I think that V is probably better than Miracle Man.

    To give you some idea of how casually brilliant V for Vendetta is, just consider the sheer economy of this small bit of scene-setting early in the work: Over a montage of pictures of life in this beat-up London, a radio talks about a Royal appearance by Queen Zara. A quick back-brain calculation of just how many members of the Royal family would have to have died for Zara Phillips to become Queen tells you worlds about the magnitude of what must have happened to England at the start of the book.
    

    by Ray Radlein on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 11:22:16 PM PDT

  •  V is...

    Not quite as layered as Watchmen, but in my view more relevant to the real world.  I would look at as being a work of speculative fiction in the form of a graphic novel.  Don't look at it as comic book, if Watchman has spoiled your enjoyment of comic books for their own sake.

    by David R on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 11:24:34 PM PDT

  •  Frank Miller,

    not Frank Black.  Listening to too much Pixies.

    by gogol999 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 11:43:42 PM PDT

    •  No such thing!

      as too much Pixies.

      I read V for Vendetta when it first came out. I'll have to dig out those comix.

      by Marek on Mon Dec 19, 2005 at 01:55:19 AM PDT

  •  first reviews are RAVES!

    V for Vendetta was screened last week in Texas at the famed "Butt Numb A Thoon."  It shook the audience up and the reviews are all raves.

    Here's one, and I'll post more down the line.

    Recommend this diary and get the word out to support this film!

    All the doubts I had about V For Vendetta were unfounded. It's an outstanding achievement, and it pulls not a single punch in bringing Moore's novel to the screen. People Should Not Be Afraid Of Their Government, Governments Should Be Afraid Of Their People - that ideal courses through every frame of the film. I cannot believe a movie with these concepts, expressed so directly, is being put out by a studio. It's a piece of dynamite....

    comments by filmmaker David Lowery
    

    by CalNM on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 11:52:33 PM PDT

    •  oopsy

      Make that Butt Numb a THON.  teehee

      BNAT is a 24 hour movie festival in Texas.  It started with King Kong this year, and closed with the only known print of V for Vendetta. Most of the reviewers said they liked Vendetta more than Kong, because it's an 'important' film.

      The positive reaction at BNAT is good because these are fans of the original material and comic books in general.  If they like it then it already passed a big credibility test.

      by CalNM on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 12:14:22 AM PDT

      •  oh AWESOME!

        damn damn damn damn damn

        How did they score V for Vendetta?  That's major clout since the film isn't to release until April!

        It was meant to release on Guy Fawkes day but didn't.  S'okay, though since spring will be that much closer to the elections.

        by Fabian on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 09:44:03 AM PDT

•  It's not really a DC title.

  It was originally published elsewhere, I think.

  I enjoyed it.  But the character of V and the relationship between V and Evey was . . . disconcerting, to say the least.

  I'll be curious to see how Agent Smith and Princess Amidala bring it to life.

  by Drew on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 11:13:50 PM PDT

  •  I agree--I was so bummed

    when they postponed the release date!!!

    by thereisnospoon on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 11:17:16 PM PDT

    •  Release Date

      Really — how can you make a movie of V for Vendetta and somehow not release it on November 5, 2005?
      

      by Ray Radlein on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 11:23:31 PM PDT

  •  an achievement!!

    V for Vendetta was screened last week in Texas at the famed "Butt Numb A Thon."  It shook up the audience and the reviews are all raves.

    Here's another one -- one posted up thread -- and I'll post another on down the line.

    Recommend this diary and get the word out to support this film! Make V for Vendetta" diaries everyday!

    "V for Vendetta" is an utterly perfect, flawless film, ripe for debate and ready to be argued. It is a comic book adaptation of material now 23 years old, and yet, it could not have been made at a better, more relevant, more appropriate time. This is a film about revolution, a film about police states and terrorism. It is a film about what happens when people are afraid and let those that offer safety at the expense of freedom reign. It is a film about one man pushed over the edge, completely destroyed and ready to get revenge. But more important than revenge, this man wants revolution. This man wants not to cut the chains of slavery off of himself, but rather off of his people. And this man, this V, is a terrorist.

    And that's gonna piss a lot of people off. And it should. V For Vendetta is far from your run of the mill sci-fi. It is an important work of fiction that has more truth to it than is comfortable to most.....

    This film is extraordinarily powerful. It is a genre fisted gutpunch that uses Science Fiction in the way it was originally intended - as an allegory for high-minded ideals. And while it is busy dissecting terrorism, it is also careful to illustrate the importance of simply showing up over the power of violence. Ultimately V For Vendetta is not a piece glorifying terrorism, but rather one that demands a catalyst to encourage the people.....
    It is strong, brash, unflinching science fiction that goes for the throat and never lets go. And it's going to get attacked - in a big way. Fox News, particularly Bill O'Reilly (who gets beat up pretty bad in this), are gonna jump on this like nobodies business.....
    This is a film that will live and breathe controversy. The worst thing that could happen to it is that news stations decide not to talk about it. Because anyone who slams this, anyone who calls it un-American and a defense of terrorism, will lose all credibility with anyone that watches this.

    AICN scroll down

    by CalNM on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 12:08:42 AM PDT

•  I thought it was a bit of a mess...

  It's fairly early Alan Moore, when he was still honing his craft. As a story, it's pretty much all over the place, and doesn't use the medium as well as his later works. Or even some of his earlier works, for that matter.

  The politics are very disturbing -- the only alternative to fascism is a lunatic in a long coat and stovepipe hat ranting about freedom while abducting and brainwashing a protoge.

  EVE: It was you. It was just you all this time. You... tortured me. Oh, you tortured me. Oh god, why?

  V: Because I love you. Because I want to set you free.
  

  Yes, it's kind of satisfying that the fascists get their due, but the world that V is creating is no less cruel, just less ordered. Something better might come of it, but V is not doing anything to forward that, he's just tearing down the current system and leaving anarchy, chaos and unruly mobs in its place.

  It's not much of a choice.

  It reminds me of the French Revolution, where the Radical Jacobins are just as bad as the monarchy they overthrew.

  BTW, you might be amused to know that after writing "V for Vendetta", Alan Moore went on to write several of the better Superman stories ("For The Man Who Has Everything" and "Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow"). It's hard to think of two comics with a greater difference in tone than "V for Vendetta" and "Superman"...

  by Gustavo on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 11:27:25 PM PDT

  •  this is the future

    You realize, THIS is the future of America.

    The best we can hope for is the eventual collapse of the present regime with its concomitant price in chaos and anarchy, then a slow rebuild, sort of like the USSR, and they still ended up with Putin.

    Alan Moore was if anything, an optimist.

    Get ready for it, prepare your children for it.

    by Lupin on Sat Dec 17, 2005 at 11:34:15 PM PDT

  •  Ashes of the Old World

    Yes, it's kind of satisfying that the fascists get their due, but the world that V is creating is no less cruel, just less ordered. Something better might come of it, but V is not doing anything to forward that, he's just tearing down the current system and leaving anarchy, chaos and unruly mobs in its place.

    It's not much of a choice.

    It's important to realize, however, that V himself understands this, and knows that it is his failure. His knowledge of the limitations of terror, and the fact that he cannot build the future with acts of violence, is crucial to his actions in the story.
    

    by Ray Radlein on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 01:32:30 AM PDT

    •  Actually

      I think that may be why V let himself die. It's obvious in the story that he let the policeman kill him. It may be that he knew carrying things on would require a softer hand then he was capable of, and so he trained and equipped Evey to be his replacement.

      Sort of like how, and I hesitate to go Biblical for anything, but it may be like how David had to leave the building of the Temple to his son Solomon because David had fought so much and killed so many.

      by jabbausaf on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 05:39:04 AM PDT

      •  NICE SPOILER THERE.

        Guess I don't have to watch the movie or read the book to see how it turns out eh?

        by Chain on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 05:50:28 AM PDT

        •  Well, sure.

          You know Kong dies.  You know the aliens are defeated.  But you watch the movies anyhow, right?

          Actually, V dying is one of his redeeming features.  It makes me think that he wasn't completely insane.  

          Well, now I've just started a thread on whether V was sane and rational and really evil or whether V was a good person driven to insanity and despicable acts.  

          by Fabian on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 10:20:52 AM PDT

  •  boiling a frog

    I think the conversion of Evey was meant to be a contrast to the boiling a frog paradigm.  Evey lost everything quickly, catastrophically, dramatically - or at least she appeared to.  In truth most of her freedom and choices were stripped from her a long time ago.  Much like everybody else, she didn't realize that she had any choices left.  The government had taken them away and removed any influences that would cause unrest in the population.

    In a way she is both independent and a pawn.  The government showed her one set of choices and then V showed her another set.  Eventually she realizes that there are a multitude of choices between numbing conformity and destructive anarchy - and she could try to lead the nation to a new future of her own design.

    by Fabian on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 09:54:51 AM PDT

•  Moore's best work.

  This is Alan Moore's best work. While Watchmen was more acclaimed and more layered and reinvented the comics genre, V was a much more personal and emotional piece. It was started pre-Watchmen and completed post-Watchmen if I remember correctly.

  There are so many great elements to this story, but what is most important in my mind is that there are some very tough questions to be asked about the "hero" in the piece and the means that he goes to against what he sees as an unjust government. He is not a 100% sympathetic character in the least.

  While the producers denied it, the talk has been that the delay in releasing the film was due to the orginal release date falling so close to the London bombings. (Given the content of the story without giving anything away.) As much as I want to see this film, having lived in NYC during 9-11, I feel that the concerns of the appearance of showing something like this so closely after an attack warrented the delayed release date. (And it gave them time to cut a superior film apparently.)

  It should also be mentioned that Moore has washed his hands of the film and wants nothing to do with it, though as has been posted above, it has won raves.

  by Rock Strongo on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 12:22:16 AM PDT

  •  poor Moore

    I think the London bombings might have contributed some to the delay as you say, but I hear it's also true it just wasn't finished yet, and they weren't happy with the initial marketing push. And even though Nov 5th would have been a sweet date, the month was too crowded with other films. Now it's being marketed as more of a political thriller than an action-thriller. It will premier at the Berlin film fest in February.

    Yes, Moore is turning out to look quite small and short-sighted in dismissing the film and spreading negative rumours before it was even started. V for Vendetta co-creator and illustrator David Lloyd has been participating in the film from the beginning, and he is very happy with the script and now the finished product. He says Moore would only be happy with a straight book to screen adaptation, but the movie needed to be  updated/changed in a few key places to make it relevant to 2005 and current events.

    He should at least be happy that more people will read his book because of the movie.
    

    by CalNM on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 12:35:14 AM PDT

    •  Alan Moore has been burned before.

      Even if V is the most successful and faithful adaptation of his works, it follows some truly painful interpretations like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.  

      I'd still love for someone to produce Watchmen as a cable series.  Terry Gilliam tried to work it as a movie but couldn't crunch all that delicious plot into a 2.5 hour movie.  If someone had the clout to do it as series of two hour episodes, I'd get cable just to watch it.

      I don't want to see done as a movie though - I can't imagine giving up any of the subplots.  Laurie's whole story - from being the daughter of the Silk Spectre to her relationship with Dr Manhanttan to that Kubrick-esque scene on Mars - I'd want to see that.  

      BTW I nominate Ang Lee to direct.

      by Fabian on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 10:05:28 AM PDT

  •  Critical Distance

    It should also be mentioned that Moore has washed his hands of the film and wants nothing to do with it, though as has been posted above, it has won raves.

    In part this is because of his dislike for certain aspects of the early marketing for the film (when someone in the studio's publicity department apparently took it upon themselves to put words in his mouth), but primarily it's because the best defense of a writer's sanity in the face of a film adaptation is to realize that the film is its own beast, and treat it as an entirely distinct entity from the work that it is based on (obviously, there are exceptions for cases like Sin City, where the author is fully enlisted in the film by a sympathetic and compatible director).

    I mean, after The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, who on earth would blame him from hiding away and declining all comments on a movie based on his work? I mean, at least From Hell tried not to shit on his story, even if it did assay an almost impossible task of whittling it down to something less than a 20-hour miniseries.
    

    by Ray Radlein on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 01:47:12 AM PDT

•  recommend it y'all

  Hey folks who commented -- recommend this diary! Spread the good word!!

  Please read the RAVE review / comments from recent screening posted up thread.  Here's another:

  I can't even be glib about this film. This is an example of what the medium of film can do for a culture. The film picks you up and shakes you it rattles your brain and scores your soul with the indelible words: STAND UP. This movie will go down as one of the most important films of our decade.

  posted at AICN, scroll down

  by CalNM on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 12:23:59 AM PDT

•  Seems kind of like another...

  movie that cam out a couple of years back:

  Equilibrium

  Cinematography by Dion Beebe (Chicago, Collateral, Memories of a Geisha); Directed by Kurt Wimmer (Sphere).

  Government agent gone awry...John Woo-esque gun battles. Woo-fu. Big Brother-fu...

  by rgilly on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 03:18:06 AM PDT

  •  Equilibrium

    They even used the score from Equilibrium in Vendetta's teaser trailer.  Sheesh.

    by Skaje on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 03:53:34 AM PDT

  •  music

    Well, V for Vendetta story is 23 years old, but it's not the first to tell the tale of a futuristic totalitarian governement. It's on-purpose, they want people to know what kind of a film this is, they want it to be familiar to other Orwellian tales.

    Equilibrium is famous for "borrowing" shots from famous sci-fi movies and for copying the score from Mission:Impossible. lol Also kind of famous for borrowing from the Wachowski's and John Woo, so I think they are just having little fun, making connections.

    by CalNM on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 06:18:13 AM PDT

•  I read it years ago...

  and loved it, found it disturbing and thought-provoking.  I was actually looking for my copy the other day, along with my copy of Watchmen, because it's been a dozen years since I read either of them, and I wanted to do so again in light of our... um, new political environment.

  by the stormy present on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 03:31:40 AM PDT

  •  Transmet is my guide to politics

    I mean Bush hasn't had any tragic deaths in his family yet, but that scene of Smiler and the Constitution/Bill of Rights - how Bushlike is that?

    V for Vendetta because it deals with a traumatized nation putting its faith and future into the hands of a comforting Father figure.

    Watchmen because it pretty much destroys the might makes right philosophy.  The scene in Vietnam with Dr Manhattan and The Comedian pretty much says it all.  

    by Fabian on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 10:15:21 AM PDT

    •  Transmetropolitan indeed

      I could go on for hours about what a great series that is. I have the whole thing on my computer, and once I complete my Lucifer set of trade paperbacks I'll be picking up those as well. Transmetropolitan is awesome, but I have to be careful how often I read it. After I do, I tend to get very curmudgeonly, write an awful lot of diaries and posts about the evils administration, get the urge to tear my stripes off and throw them at the commander and get the hell out of the military, and suddenly want to go into a career as a hard-drinking gonzo journalist.

      So yeah, all things in moderation when it comes to Transmet. ;)

      by jabbausaf on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 10:52:44 AM PDT

      •  how low can they go?

        Staging 'tragic deaths' for sympathy and political advantage is still a schtick that I've only seen in Transmet.  thank goodness.

        by Fabian on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 12:18:09 PM PDT

        •  As far as we know

          n/t

          by jabbausaf on Mon Dec 19, 2005 at 12:12:09 AM PDT

•  America prevails.

  United we stand.

  by Jon Meltzer on Sun Dec 18, 2005 at 06:36:54 AM PDT