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Open Thread

by openthread

Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:28:06 PM PDT

Sen. John Cornyn: "None of your civil liberties matter much after you're dead."

Sen. Russ Feingold's retort: "Give me liberty or give me death."

This is an open thread.

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  •  Is Cornyn an American? n/t (none / 0)

    Ask Three Poeple a Day: What Noble Cause?

    by Random Excess on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:27:15 PM PDT

    •  not exactly... (4.00 / 11)

      he's a Texan

      Bipartisanship: I'll hug your elephant if you kiss my ass

      by Uranus Hz on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:28:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ouch. (none / 0)

        This New Englander (Masshole) apologizes to all Texans on behalf of this last commenter. Good folk get saddled with bad politicians even in the Blue States. Why, my governor is Mitt F'n Romney.

        It's a neighborly day in this beautywood. Relentless!

        by ablington on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:31:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Even in Texas (none / 1)

          Cornyn is a special case. He is the Conservative Ken Doll. He's pretty enough to trot out in situations like this, where what has to be said is so outrageous that the only thing that will soften the blow is good teeth.

          "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

          by johnmorris on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:29:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  John Cornyn, from his OWN website, on (none / 0)

          the "Consitution and the Rule of Law"

          I quote:

          "Our Constitution ensures that America will always be a nation ruled by laws, not by men. For more than 200 years, Americans have revered the wisdom and foresight of our nation's founding documents, and we must continue that proud tradition. What sets this nation apart in history is our conviction that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are not merely American rights, confined to our shores, but the gifts of a benevolent Creator to all humanity."

          It's all meaningless words and rhetoric to these fucks.  The only thing that matters to them is money and power, and they will toss around empty words whenevever it is convenient to do so, only to directly abrogate those words ten minutes later . . . when it is again convenient to do so.

          by SpermDonor on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 08:03:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What a juxtaposition... (none / 0)

            Quiz: which is the real John Cornyn quote:

            A. "For more than 200 years, Americans have revered the wisdom and foresight of our nation's founding documents, and we must continue that proud tradition."

            B. "None of your civil liberties matter much after you're dead."

            Answer: B. A, although on his website, was probably actually written by some low level staffer. It certainly doesn't seem to originate from the same razor sharp legal insight that led to B.

            The underest dog is just as good as I am, and I'm just as good as the toppest dog. - Jimmie Rodgers

            by GreenCA on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 09:09:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  HEH (none / 1)

        not particularly a bright comment from Uranus Hz, in light of the courage shown
        at the Alamo, a,k,a,m Cradle of Freedom,  in 1836 .  Idiots....I moved to Tx, San Antonio, specifically,  for the express reason people here are proud to be american.   Further more they put up or shut up here more than any other place I can put my finger on..... Yeah I wasn't born here but i got here as fast as i could.

        Falon C. Taylor R.I.P. 1985-2007

        by SouthPaul on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:37:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Texas is about as huge and diverse (none / 1)

        as any place in America.

        Texas, and the South in general, is not my first choice for places to live, but I have lived there, and I have family from all over the South and from Texas as well, and I don't think it's fair to blame that asshole Cornyn for being an asshole because he's from Texas. He's an asshole because he's a self-righteous prick.

        The prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad; For the multitude of thy iniquity, and the great hatred...

        by Tirge Caps on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:43:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry, (none / 0)

        My comment doesn't make any sense. </D'oh>

        The prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad; For the multitude of thy iniquity, and the great hatred...

        by Tirge Caps on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:46:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  huh? (none / 0)

          yes, it made perfect sense!

          "If being an elitist just means not the dumbest motherfucker in the room, then yeah, I'm an elitist." - Get Yer War On

          by sadair on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:32:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  On my second read (none / 0)

            s/he was making a joke about the independent nature of Texas, and Texas is unique in that it was its own republic before joining the union. I just jumped the gun because their is a lot of Southern/Texas bashing here, and after reading it again, I don't think that's what the poster was implying.

            The prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad; For the multitude of thy iniquity, and the great hatred...

            by Tirge Caps on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 12:30:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  LOL (none / 1)

        that was funny, but still ignorant. I am sick of all my liberal friends grouping Texas as one big blob of evil. Sure, they're a bit partisanly-challenged (to use a PC term), having not elected anyone cool since Ann Richards in 1990, but Texas is more than just a big bunch of red.

        There are many different cultures within Texas. East Texas (Tyler, Beaumont, Houston, Marshall, etc.) is absolutely nothing like West Texas (Midland, San Angelo, Amarillo, etc; this is where the president is from). While West Texas is Wyoming-style cowboy country, East Texas is almost like the Deep South culturally. And South Texas, being predominantly Hispanic, is of course a whole 'nother bag, being more like Mexico than anything you will find in America. And of course Austin is like Santa Fe, or San Francisco - a hip liberal city.

        We have the same thing in California. Not all of California is liberal coastal cities. We have the hippie, codependent lefties in the Bay Area and the North Coast, the Hollywood progressives in L.A., the moderate small-town voters in the Central Coast, and the unpredictable centrists of the San Diego area. And those are just the coastal areas! Don't forget the fundies in the Central Valley, the blue-collar conservatives in the Desert, and the far-right libertarian Cheney types in the Sierra.

        The Republican Party is neither pro-republic nor pro-party. Discuss!

        by Nathaniel Ament Stone on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:54:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  to clarify (none / 0)

        My coments was intended to be funny, first and foremost.  There is nothing in my comment that is anti-Texan.  It was merely poking fun at the fact that he is from the 'Republic of Texas', as many Texans refer to their state.  As though it IS, in fact, it's own country.

        Bipartisanship: I'll hug your elephant if you kiss my ass

        by Uranus Hz on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 07:13:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  No, but Mel Gibson is (none / 1)

      DraftMelGibson.com

      Incendiado para arriba, listo para irme.

      by gobacktotexas on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:30:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe he's just a Texan n/t (none / 0)

    Ambition is when you follow your dreams. Insanity is when they follow you.

    by Batfish on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:28:01 PM PDT

  •  Cornyn is much closer to death than Feingold. (none / 0)

    No snark intended.

    Good feet giving up good boots. http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

    by panicbean on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:29:28 PM PDT

  •  Russ is so macho. (none / 0)

    Did he really say that?

    Obama Everywhere!

    by kismet on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:29:51 PM PDT

    •  That was my first impression. (none / 0)

      I've known for at least 7 hours that this is true.

      It's sinking in now.  Damn, that guy has some huevos pulling that one out.  Hats off to that dude.  

      "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." - Cicero -6.75 -3.64

      by KOWALSKI on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:33:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Live Free or Die (none / 0)

      "Live Free Or Die; Death Is Not The Worst of Evils."

      --General John Stark (July 31, 1809), source of the New Hampshire State motto

      Always thought that one was catchier.

      Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

      by Scarce on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:44:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Love to hear one of the GOP bat guano (none / 0)

        Senators from NH say that, today.

        Of course, that would be just after hell froze over.

        McCain just flushed his own campaign by his appearance at the FBF on Aug 16th, 2008.

        by shpilk on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:53:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Patrick Henry (none / 0)

        Said:

        "The gentlemen may cry Peace, Peace, but there is no peace, the war is actually begun. The very next gale that blows from the north will bring to our ears the resounding clash of arms. Our Brethren are already in the field. Why stand we here idle? Is life so dear or peace so sweet that it is to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty god! I know not what choice others may make but, as for me, give me liberty or give me death."

        "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

        by johnmorris on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:40:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  How does USSID 18 (none / 0)

    fit into the picture?  Particularly section 4 and the definitions annex.  Any legal scholars out there want to weigh in?

    http://www.gwu.edu/...

    See you at the debate, bitches!

    by calipygian on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:30:21 PM PDT

    •  Better link (none / 0)

      here

      See you at the debate, bitches!

      by calipygian on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:31:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  USSID 18 Doesn't Matter (none / 0)

      Not a legal scholar, but here's my understanding...

      The  United States Signals Intelligence Directives are basically policy manuals for the National Security Agency. They are created to support e.g. "applicable law, executive branch directives, internal directives, and policy."   They don't have the force of law, although going against what they say could result in violations of actual laws.  (Someone who is a legal scholar could probably recite chapter and verse about why a document classified SECRET cannot possibly contain actual laws that can be violated.)

      I suspect that USSID 18 is pounded into NSA folks because, unlike most other policies, not following it to the letter almost certainly does mean you are violating the law. But saying that people should be charged for violating USSID 18 is like suggesting that Jeffrey Skilling should be jailed because Enron had a company policy requiring executives to behave in an ethical manner.

      Since the NSA is part of the executive branch, the President is in charge of what they do and how they do it. If he tells them to change their policies for certain important situations, and not to make that change in policy generally known, well, he's the boss.

      He is responsible, though, for ensuring that that the policy change is legal. In other words, King George could get impeached for telling the NSA to subvert the constitution by authorizing warrantless searches, not because he made them go against previous NSA policy.

      RV

      Al Gore is running for Gray Champion.

      by RanxeroxVox on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:39:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But the way that policy is written (none / 0)

        and this is not knowing what is in the blacked out sections, it looks like that NSA is authorized to intercept communications of US persons that are acting as agents of a foreign power, and I'm sure that the Administration will argue that al-Qaeda operatives are acting in the interests of a foreign power.  Just playing Devil's Advocate here...

        See you at the debate, bitches!

        by calipygian on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:56:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We might be crossing mindstreams here... (none / 0)

          I'm just noting that the policy isn't the law, and Bush can't be prosecuted for changing the policy unless it does break an actual law. It doesn't matter what USSID 18 says about foreign agents - it just matters what FISA and other actual laws say about them.

          Having said that, yep, it's possible that there are exceptions that the administration can take advantage of, especially concerning folks that can be shown as agents of foreign powers...but a few diaries have tried to justify those, without significant success.

          Plus, Bush isn't saying that it's allowed because it's legal, but that it's allowed because he's CinC.

          In any case, both the policy (USSID 18) and the president need to follow the law (FISA).

          RV

          Al Gore is running for Gray Champion.

          by RanxeroxVox on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 11:25:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Hundreds of pounds of C4 stolen YESTERDAY! (none / 1)

    Hundreds of pounds of C4 explosive were stolen from a warehouse in New Mexico yesterday. That's enough to blow up a large building.

    This is scary.

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/...

    If someone starts using this stuff immediately it would sure give Bush a welcome break, and a justification for double secret monitoring of American citizens.

    by joel3000 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:30:41 PM PDT

    •  Paper thin sheets included in the theft (none / 0)

      These can be easily turned into mail bombs. Their intended use is as a tool for detonation.

      by joel3000 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:35:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here comes Martial Law (none / 0)

        New Bill of American Rights

        You will love Jesus
        You can work
        You can pay your bills
        You can consume as much as you can pay for and borrow

        If you run out of money tuff luck.

        by Braindead on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:00:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Amendment CMXI (none / 0)

          The powers not delegated to the people, or to the States, by the Constitution, are reserved to the President. Or whatsoever it takes.

          We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

          by Gooserock on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:06:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  amendment proposed by GOP (none / 0)

            ... to your Amendment CMXI

            The powers not delegated to the people, or to the States, by the Constitution, are reserved to the President, providing that he is a member in good standing of the Republican Party. Or whatsoever it takes.

            Which pundit most resembles Ruby Rhod?

            by wystler on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 02:02:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah or (none / 0)

      it could take all the air out of their sails.
      I really hope there are no further attacks because enough people have died in this bull-shit war. This theft is a glaring example of how little has been done to make this country safer for those of us who pay taxes and actually love this world.

      -Give me liberty or give me death

      Boy...you baby boomers sure left my generation a horrific shit storm to clean up.

      by Young and on the air on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:46:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nothing justifies secret monitoring of Americans. (none / 0)

      At least not without court approval!

      No, I think that if somebody starts to use the C4 for anything, it will be a further blow to Bush's credibility.  His administration hasn't done anything to make us safer - in fact, we're less safe now than we were six years ago.

      But I think the C4 was stolen by somebody from across the border, maybe by the drug cartel.  

      "I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they kill, there would be no more wars." - Abbie Hoffman

      by Jensequitur on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:46:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not the FIRST time (none / 1)

      I posted this on another diary, but it seems just as appropriate in this discussion:

      Explosives missing from site AGAIN

      In the post-Sept. 11, 2001, era, one might assume bomb-making materials would be under the tightest possible security.

      In fact, they sit unattended in the New Mexico desert, guarded by little more than lock and key.

      Bernalillo County Sheriff Darren White says he doesn't understand it.

      "You have to question the logic behind federal regulations that prohibited you from carrying nail clippers onto an airplane, but allow you to store high-grade explosives in a poorly protected site in the middle of nowhere," White said.
      And here's the kickers (plural):
      "It is concerning to me that the same thing happened twice at the same location," said Tim Manning, director of the state Office of Homeland Security.

      He said he wasn't aware of the double theft until he was informed by a reporter.
      Not aware until he was informed by a reporter?  Gee, that sounds vaguely familiar.

      "Hey, Manning!  You're doin' a heck of a job!"

      A ship adrift in a sea of rhetoric & recycled clichés.

      by Terre on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:17:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And this is eerily similar as well (none / 1)

        From your article:'

        After the 2003 theft, White and John Denko, secretary of the state Department of Public Safety, called for increased security and scrutiny of the site.

        Manning said he will investigate what changes were made at the facility, if any, after the previous burglary.

        "I want to find out why and what can be done to change that," Manning said.

        He said one thing that has changed since the 2003 incident is coordination of law enforcement's response.

        Within hours of this weekend's theft being reported to the ATF, calls went out to the Albuquerque Police Department, the Sheriff's Department, the FBI and the New Mexico State Police.

        Monday morning, staff from each agency gathered at APD's dispatch center to begin the emergency operation.

        So. We're investigating what did and didn't work in the system. And, rather than mess up anyone's Sunday afternoon any further, they had the "emergency" meeting the next day.

        Well, better than a few weeks down the road, I suppose. And did you notice the theft in 2003 happened in December, too? Maybe they want to blow up Holiday Trees.

        Senator McCain, we don't have to twist everything that comes out of a Republican's mouth - you guys come pre-twisted.

        by PatsBard on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:31:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  ROFL! (none / 0)

          Maybe they want to blow up Holiday Trees.  :o)

          In seriousness though, and just in case, we need to bookmark the article for future reference.  I very much hope we won't need it for KatrinexicoGate or [insert your own gate].

          A ship adrift in a sea of rhetoric & recycled clichés.

          by Terre on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:56:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  D O I (none / 1)

    Democrats, Independents, and sane Republicans should create a new "Declaration of Independence" from King George. Write it up and send it around the country via internet/blogs for signatures.

    That's the true harbinger of spring, not crocuses or swallows returning to Capistrano, but the sound of a bat on a ball. ~Bill Veeck

    by MikeBaseball on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:30:58 PM PDT

  •  Just a question (none / 0)

    Is Jeff Sessions the dumbest GOp senator around, or is that Mel Martinez?  Cause watchin both men try to speak complete coherent sentences, it seems like they are either dumb or high, but not both.

    by Sam Loomis on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:31:06 PM PDT

  •  I just went to LGF for the first time. (none / 0)

    Not a fact to be found there except for Maryscott's, whose writing has infiltrated their front page.

    P.S. I shan't be making that trip again any time soon.  Sorry to even bring it up. Please, for the love of God, don't bother going.

    I miss Jeff Buckley.

    by exiledfromTN on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:31:45 PM PDT

  •  Where the hell did Cornyn's (none / 0)

    comment come from?  Does it make a little more sense in context?

    (-3.63, -3.03): Dkos' rabid right wing
    John McCain. The President lobbyists have been waiting for.

    by someone else on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:32:07 PM PDT

    •  I think (none / 0)

      he must be referring to some of the dumbass RW talking points that these illegal wire taps are preventing terrorist acts.  I think Cornyn must be arguing that if we have to ask for a warrant, they'll be a terrorist attack.

      I'm kind of guessing, but that is quite a dumb talking point.  Since the FISA law allows one to get a warrant up to 72 hours retroactively, how is this a burden?  I think they must be doing something so bad that even the FISA court would turn them down.

      Turn ons: progressives, Democrats with spines Turn offs: conservatives, people named Bush, John McCain

      by Unstable Isotope on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:37:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I did find this... better link out there? (4.00 / 2)

      Little more context here.

      Ask Three Poeple a Day: What Noble Cause?

      by Random Excess on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:39:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He didn't say this on the Senate floor, did he? (none / 0)

    Sounds almost like a defense of Bush's illegal wire tapping.

    Ask Three Poeple a Day: What Noble Cause?

    by Random Excess on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:34:35 PM PDT

  •  Death (4.00 / 3)

    Is death the new Republican talking point?

    George W. Bush famously told Woodward that he didn't care how history would view him because "we'll all be dead."  Is this what Republicans are saying to justify their policies?  Don't worry about the deficit or the Constitution, you'll be dead by the time we're living in a dictatorship.

    Turn ons: progressives, Democrats with spines Turn offs: conservatives, people named Bush, John McCain

    by Unstable Isotope on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:34:59 PM PDT

    •  When the so-called... (none / 0)

      ..."death tax" was their favorite issue, Repubs seemed to be awfully worried about civil liberties after death.

      by luckydog on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:43:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  excellent :) (n/t) (none / 0)

        Are we still routinely torturing helpless prisoners, and if so, does it feel right that we as American citizens are not outraged by the practice? -Al Gore

        by soyinkafan on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:58:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not Civil Liberties-- (none / 0)

        The death tax was taxing dollars that had already suffered taxation previously.

        It was about protecting the rights of the dollars.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 07:03:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  And why are they so worried about death? (none / 0)

      I thought they were all Christian and shit.

      What a bunch of cowards.  They're so scared of death that they're willing to live their lives under the gaze of an intrusive government on the slim chance that such intrusion might prolong their pathetic little lives.  What kind of Americans are they?

      Support Regina Thomas, GA-12

      by Drew on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 08:39:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In My Years of Playing Funeral Music (none / 0)

        I find that Christians almost always dress up their dead in fine clothes, preserve the bodies and bury them on cushions and pillows.

        It seems an odd way to treat a body whose soul is already in heaven.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 07:04:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  John Cornyn has insisted so strongly (none / 0)

    on being a man who is straight, it's ironic that he's ended up being Russ Feingold's straight man.

    Greg Shenaut

    by gshenaut on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:35:34 PM PDT

  •  Don't let JLFinch's diary disappear (none / 0)

    The following diary, which fully exposes Bush as a liar, using transcripts of his own public appearances, needs to be recommended back up:

    http://jlfinch.dailykos.com/...

    In it, JL Finch and other Kossacks cite Bush himself saying that wiretaps require court orders under the Constitution.

    It makes you wonder: Is Google a banned site in mainstream media newsrooms?

    "Animals are my friends. And I don't eat my friends." -- George Bernard Shaw

    by Hudson on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:35:37 PM PDT

    •  That diary is critical! (none / 0)

      It shows without a doubt that Bush is a LIAR using his own quotes. Very important stuff. Wonder if the mainstream media will report his lies and keep replaying them kind of like they did with Clinton's "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

      by sendel42 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 08:24:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'd like to recommend a diary (4.00 / 3)

    No, not mine, someone else's.  Right now, the entire Rec List's about spying, wiretapping and impeachment.

    willyr's written a diary about the upcoming showdown over Defense Appropriations bill, and in appropriate things tied onto it.

    Those being drilling in ANWR.  The royalties from which are promised to go towards Katrina relief and LIHEAP (Low-Income Heat & Energy Assistance Program.)  But that's a sham, because the money won't really be there.  Because Alaska has the right to object and keep the royalties for the state, which it's already indicated it will do.

    Cheney's flying back into the Capitol, and it looks like the Repubs intend to exercise the Nuclear Option (usually discussed with regard to judicial nominations) on this one.  Tomorrow's shaping up to be a high-drama day in the Senate.  Keep your eye on C-SPAN2!!

    Anyhow, I think one Rec diary on this is appropriate, so I'm asking (begging? ain't too proud to beg!) you to visit that diary and recommend.  It's got 30 recommends now, so it probably won't take many more to get on the Rec list.  (Or, could the God of the Front Page promote it?)

    This whole issue's going to come down in the next 24 hours.  Isn't it worthy of dKos attention via a Recommended Diary?  Thanks.

    John McCain voted against health care for kids.

    by Land of Enchantment on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:37:03 PM PDT

  •  Good diary. (none / 0)

    Please allow me to recommend that you check out this diary ("What the Republican House Tried to Hide")  by Five of Diamonds, following up on mcjoan's front page post earlier today about the defense appropriations bill that was snuck through last night with hardly any debate.  (And yes, after reading Five of Diamond's diary, snuck is the right word.)

    It scrolled off the list very quickly earlier today and, imho, didn't get the attention it deserved.

    Social advance depends as much upon the process through which it is secured as upon the result itself. --Jane Addams

    by shock on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:38:23 PM PDT

  •  I said to my husband tonight (4.00 / 14)

    none of these wingnuts have spent the whole day at school on September 11th, 2001, thinking that their husband, a NYC firefighter, is dead.

    None of them spent months glued to the television scenes of the clean-up at the World Trade Center sites, worrying that a talking head would announce that a firefighter, their husband, went through a hole in the shifting, smoldering pile of rubble.  

    None of these Cornyn Texan wingnuts sat next to their husbands at 3AM in the morning as he wheezed and gasped, rubbing his back and praying that he would catch his breath because his lungs were so badly damaged by the "perfectly fine" air at Ground Zero.

    So why, I asked my husband tonight, are the wingnuts so damn afraid of terror?? Do they really think that Alabama or Tennesse is going to be hit? God, what arrogant stupidity!  They are more afraid than those of us who were directly affected, and I have one thing to say:

    I would rather die from the hand of a terrorist, than live under a regime which takes away my freedom.

    My new bumper sticker: Cheney-Satan '08

    by adigal on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:38:43 PM PDT

    •  Of Course They're Not (none / 0)

      afraid themselves.

      They want everyone else in the country to be as afraid as possible.

      BTW they would also have seen the clip of Giuliani touring the smoldering wreckage with photographers, shouting "GET YOUR MASK ON--GET YOUR MASK ON--GET YOUR MASK ON" to those around him.

      The clip turns up in news from time to time.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:43:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I never saw that! (none / 0)

        I did see Christine Todd Whitman saying, the first few days after the 11th, that the air quality was "within normal limits."  And I was paying very close attention to that, so I am not imagining things.

        My new bumper sticker: Cheney-Satan '08

        by adigal on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:57:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I Used to Cut Concrete in Construction (none / 1)

          and an hour into my first day an old toothless W Va'n teetered over and told me to get a proper mask. "That shit'll killya" he said.

          The obvious dust plus the likelihood of asbestos being in the mix of debris was on my mind the instant I saw what I thought was only the top of the first building start to fall.

          I've seen the Giuliani clip at least once in the past year or so. It's very brief and he was busy briefing those around him. If I had injuries related to the dust I'd sure be scouring news sources for it.

          We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

          by Gooserock on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:03:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  CNN transcript (none / 1)

            CNN Giuliani, Aired Dec 29, 2001

            ANNOUNCER: The story of how a Catholic boy from Brooklyn became the king of New York, now on PEOPLE IN THE NEWS.

            (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

            GIULIANI: ... put your mask on, put your mask on. Put your mask on.

            (CROSSTALK)

            QUESTION: Mayor, what's the situation right now?

            GIULIANI: The situation is that two airplanes have attacked, apparently...

            SHARON COLLINS, HOST (voice-over): New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani has been at ground zero, literally and figuratively, since the attacks on the World Trade Center September 11. He called for calm and tolerance.


            Senator McCain, we don't have to twist everything that comes out of a Republican's mouth - you guys come pre-twisted.

            by PatsBard on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:08:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  GREAT FIND!! (none / 0)

              Wonderful! This should be in the hands of everyone pursuing remedies for injuries caused by the debris of the attacks.

              We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

              by Gooserock on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 07:07:03 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  My office is about 7 blocks from WTC (none / 0)

        The air even that far away was rank for months.

        "Mom, did you hurt yourself, or are you yelling at the TV again?

        by litigatormom on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:11:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  As someone who lives in TN (none / 0)

      the answer to your question is yes. They are frightened and have been made to feel terrified by their church, their wing nut neighbors, the media, etc. Can't remember how many local news outlets spent hours covering the unsecure 'nuculer' plant in Oak Ridge, TN after 9/11.

      A 7 y/o boy in my daughter's class last year told her we were all going to die if Kerry got elected.

      But I'm from MD and my hubby is a NYer, so they scare us none!

      DailyKos=Crack for liberals

      Drink shade grown coffee!

      by mad ramblings of a sane woman on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:52:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sounds like the same conversation I had (none / 1)

      with my husband. He is also convinced that all of my blogging and posting is getting me absolutely no where because it is a republican controlled congress, nothing will change. I vent and get angry, as we all do, but Bush is still the president when we wake up and when we go to sleep.

      We have 28 years combined military service between us, and we now wonder what the hell we were fighting for?  I never signed on to spy against my fellow Americans, not did he.  

      Where did this country go wrong?  Where did we all go wrong?  Did it really start with Bush?   I am very worried for my country and my children at this time.

      Good feet giving up good boots. http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

      by panicbean on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:18:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Serious respect on this one (none / 1)

      Damn.  Peace be with you and your husband.  Hearing you put it like that makes me want to get active politically against the right-wing wackjobs, even though I have two in diapers and seemingly not a moment to spare.

      by tbrucegodfrey on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:37:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks - this is the reason I became (none / 0)

        politically active.  Used to be a republican (what the HELL was I thinking??) This administration woke me up real quick.

        Take care of your babies and when they are a little older, get active.  My youngest is 11, so I have a little more freedom. A little! (LOL!)

        My new bumper sticker: Cheney-Satan '08

        by adigal on Wed Dec 21, 2005 at 04:03:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think it's fear (none / 1)

      I think they get a hardon whoopin' ass, takin' it to the bad guys.  Well, vicariously, for those many cheerleaders who don't actually put themselves in harm's way.

      We'll put a boot up your ass, it's the American way--says it all, Rambo fever, xenophobia--redstate

      by sharman on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 08:13:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  sm8.sitemeter.com (none / 0)

    Is anybody else's browser getting caught up by sm8.sitemeter.com when it's loading a Dailykos page?  

    This has been happening to me all day.

    by Naranjadia on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:39:22 PM PDT

  •  just wondering (none / 0)

    is it just me or has this site ignored this major transportation strike in NYC? or is it that it's just not that kos-worthy and more just plain old news?

    or maybe is it because we would feel guilty that we night have to portray this strike negatively? i understand, no matter how much i want to support it, i just...can't...

    -5.38 -4.95 - "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster." - Isaac Asimov

    by b1oody8romance7 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:40:00 PM PDT

    •  Good question (none / 0)

      It is headlines on BBC World News.

      Sven million people stranded? Seems a pretty impressive happening to me. I would like to see a diary on it.

      Contribute your ideas to ePLURIBUS MEDIA

      by Welshman on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:47:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  7 million "rides" not people (none / 1)

        MSNBC - AP
        The nation's biggest mass-transit system ground to a halt after 3 a.m., when the TWU called the strike after a late round of negotiations with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority broke down. The subways and buses provide more than 7 million rides per day.
        NY has millions of commuters, but I'd say that the 7 million number is counting rides at least "both ways".

        A ship adrift in a sea of rhetoric & recycled clichés.

        by Terre on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:29:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There was a diary on it earlier with a fair number (none / 0)

      of comments.  It is sort of a regional issue---a city issue.

      I think the MTA is far more in the wrong than the TWU.  But I don't think the TWU did a good job doing a PR offensive before the strike.

      But people start talking about how much they make, which makes me think:

      1. NYC is really expensive
      2. Their jobs sound cold and unpleasant
      3. the MTA has a billion dollar surplus
      4. They deferred increases when the MTA was having financial trouble
      5. The MTA proposal is suspiciously front-loaded---I think they would get to year 3, and the MTA would demand to re-negotiate.  

      But I'm not in the city, and am not being affected.  I supported the grocery workers when they went on strike here (LA), but I had other reasonable options.  So I hear both sides on that.  

      John McCain: Healthcare for kids? Not in the Bush-McCain America.

      by bosdcla14 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:47:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's Yet Another Offensive Against Unions (none / 0)

        People have gotten complacent and think that unions are wholly unnecessary.  But as corporations and major employers become more and more powerful (via legislation in their favor, economic conditions, globalization, sheer size, etc.) it's more and more imperative that workers have the ability to collectively take on their employers to address grievances.  

        Because, let's face it, the employers typically won't do these things on their own.  In theory, we all act upon our own economic self-interest.  As a result, business and workers are at odds, with employers striving for the lowest wages and benefits possible while still achieving acceptable levels of productivity, while workers are always striving for the highest wages and benefits.  

        Unions give employees the leverage they need to get the highest wages and benefits possible, and big business is doing its best to demolish unions.  They're really hoping this strike will turn a lot of people off regarding unions, but I haven't seen big signs of that myself.  A friend in NYC thinks many people are annoyed by the inconvenience but support the union on principle.


        You can have your "Under God" back when I get my "Liberty and Justice For All" back.

        by karateexplosions on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:04:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's important (none / 0)

      And there were a couple diaries (not recommeded though) about the strike early today. I, myself, am affected by this and had to walk 50 blocks to and from work today. Obviously the Spygate is front and center right now, with good reason.

      Be a Liberal. People are more likely to run to you if you stand still and not run from yourself.

      by Sunqueen212 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:52:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Breaking (none / 0)

    A plane near Boston is not landing.

    It will continue not landing for another 10 minutes. </CNN>

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:40:01 PM PDT

    •  Plane Has Landed (none / 1)

      We're now replaying the landing. What a sense of relief.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:52:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is excruciating, (none / 0)

        (in more ways than one).  Now that it is on the ground, is it going to explode or anything?

        What could have caused this?
        How are the people feeling inside?
        Who did the mechanical work?
        How many passengers?
        What wouda' happened if it crashed?
        Is there any other unusual activity at the airport?
        (bleh)

        'Cause you know, there was a spark seen on take off!

        by hopscotch1997 on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 07:36:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Can someone explain to me (none / 0)

    What's going on in the Senate right now?  What votes are supposed to happen tomorrow?  What is their status?  Is the Patriot Act being filibustered right now?  or is it the Defense bill?  I'm a little confused.

    by anthonyLA on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:41:32 PM PDT

  •  Clinton, Carter approved unwarranted surveillance (3.83 / 6)

    Courtesy the Drudge Report, quoting the Wash Post, among other sources.

    CLINTON ADMINISTRATION SECRET SEARCH ON AMERICANS -- WITHOUT COURT ORDER

    CARTER EXECUTIVE ORDER: 'ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE' WITHOUT COURT ORDER

    Bill Clinton Signed Executive Order that allowed Attorney General to do searches without court approval

    Clinton, February 9, 1995: "The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order"

    Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: "Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order."

    WASH POST, July 15, 1994: Extend not only to searches of the homes of U.S. citizens but also -- in the delicate words of a Justice Department official -- to "places where you wouldn't find or would be unlikely to find information involving a U.S. citizen... would allow the government to use classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors to observe people inside their homes, without a court order."

    Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, the Clinton administration believes the president "has inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches for foreign intelligence purposes."

    Secret searches and wiretaps of Aldrich Ames's office and home in June and October 1993, both without a federal warrant.

    by The Graduate on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:43:16 PM PDT

    •  Let me clarify (none / 0)

      1. Anything reported by Drudge is more than likely incomplete--to put it euphemistically.
      2. The Rovian machine is clearly attempting to distract and justify the Bush Administration's actions by showing that Democrats have partaken in similar activities without all the the hullabaloo. It won't work. The Bush Admin has taken the (possible) activities infringing on liberties to a whole new level, doing it on such a wide, secretive and illegally founded basis that it is beyond comparison in U.S. history.

      This warrants investigating, however, regarding what we did under Clinton and Carter (I suspect like many of you, I'd never heard of these activities before)..

      Can anyone explain what we were doing then, why, and what the legality of that action may have been? I wasn't old enough to follow politics at that point under Clinton, and wasn't alive when Carter was around...but I'd very much like to believe that these are distortions...

      by The Graduate on Tue Dec 20, 2005 at 06:50:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I thought you were another troll (none / 0)

        The 72 hour warrantless rule wasn't approved until post-9/11.