Daily Kos

dKos Poll irregularity

by drag0n

Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 09:47:54 PM PDT

This morning I woke up to find something odd in 2 different tabs on my firefox browser. The Madman's GBCW diary was the latest in a nasty series of meta-diaries that broke out from a diary by Armando, ironically on the subject of 'voter fraud' conspiracys being discussed on dKos.

This is ironic because the Madman's GBCW diary had a poll on the reinstatement of a user who banned from dKos and the results appear to have been altered somehow during the night.

Screenshots below the fold

in one tab on my firefox browser I saw this:
Before


After

There is no timestamp on the screenshots but you can tell by the number of comments listed in each screenshot which page  came first.

My questions are simple. Was this poll altered or was this due to a 'software glitch'? I find the 'software glitch' theory hard to swallow since all the votes seemed to have disappeared from one side. If the poll results were altered then does that mean that dKos staff reserve to alter the results of any poll that may be being freeped.

I am sure others will be interested in the answer to these questions as well.
[Update] I neglected to mention that a FP-er had offered to reinstate the user if he won the poll. As I write this the banned user is currently short by four votes. Seven were lost at some point. That is why this needs to be fixed. Maybe those seven votes came back. Who knows? That's the problem. Nobody seems to know.

Tags: Daily Kos, GBCW (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 40 comments

  •  Have you been saving your username (none / 0)

    for this for a long time now? There have been a lot of little irregularities lately, but my medication is out of date so I'm not much help.

    What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

    by melvin on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 09:53:12 PM PDT

    •  Why would I save my username? (none / 0)

      I would just like to hear a reasonable explanation.

      Why does John McCain think America should hide from it's enemies?

      by drag0n on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 09:58:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I simply meant (none / 0)

        drag on. While the irregularity is puzzling, I wonder if this diary won't be the springboard for more arguments about Armando blah blah blah. I hope not, and really didn't mean to offend.

        What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

        by melvin on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 10:01:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  there's nothing to argue about :-) (none / 0)

          It's either a glitch or an alteration. Either way it really should get fixed cuz especially in this case it looks really bad.

          Why does John McCain think America should hide from it's enemies?

          by drag0n on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 10:09:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Umm... (none / 0)

          #63484 meet #64090 and vice versa.  Lots of misconceptions to clean up. I'll start here.

          by ek hornbeck on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 11:13:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  go ahead n/t (none / 0)

            Why does John McCain think America should hide from it's enemies?

            by drag0n on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 11:16:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  What horror have we conjured?! (none / 0)

            In keeping with the season, I quote the immmortal:

             "Ghost of the Future! I fear you more than any spectre I have seen. But as I know your purpose is to do me good, and as I hope to live to be another man from what I was, I am prepared to bear you company, and do it with a thankful heart. Will you not speak to me?"

            What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

            by melvin on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 11:24:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Ok. I'll do it in my little frog pond. (none / 0)

            It's all SQL on a unix base.  Check out scoop.  Polls and other tweaks Markos sets up with his PERL gurus.  Sigh.  Booman Tribune is another pure scoop site with many of the same features.  It's all open source, there is no Diebolding here.

            by ek hornbeck on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 11:29:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm anconfused newbie (none / 1)

              Are you trying to say that because it's open source you cannot have an accurate poll?

              I disagree.

              If you are trying to say that because it is open source software then you must have an accurate poll. I also disagree.

              But then again, I am a newbie at dKos so take my opinion with a rain of salt.

              In my newbie opinion there was a problem with the poll.

              If it is a result of the dbms (likely mysql) then the dbms needs to be fixed. If it was a result of someone changing results then the dbms also needs  to be fixed.

              Hopefully it just was fixed.

              Either way there was a problem, a problem that looked bad, and it needs to be fixed. It doesn't take a newbie to figure that out.

              Why does John McCain think America should hide from it's enemies?

              by drag0n on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 12:12:13 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  ek can be cryptic at times. (none / 1)

                Don't worry about it.

                What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

                by melvin on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 12:22:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Your Opinion Counts. (none / 1)

                But on the scale of oddness with 1 being not at all and 10 being wack, shifty poll numbers are a 3.5.  Diaries showing up in the middle of the recent diary list- now that's odd, at least an 8 if only because it gave 'jotter' fits.

                Then the site goes down again.  My wandering eyeballs stray to that green place that I use when I can't express myself in my customary manner and there he is all dancing around proud like.

                The one I really feel bad for is Boo.  His core is in fact disaffected kossacks, but he was getting a lot of newbies attracted by the overall politeness of his site and his golden rule "Don't be a prick".

                Everything I said is true, if you go the kuro5hin site and have a suitable platform you can set up your own drag0n Tribune complete with poll.  Markos does have PERL gurus that he pays what I am sure are hefty sums AND he releases that code back to kuro5hin.  One of those gurus is 'ct' and if you look around after a major upgrade (or crash) you'll see his handle.

                Me, I have no PERL or any other kind of marketable skills, that's why I'm trying to get a job as a cabana boy in Ottawa.  If I did, I might download the source and shake my head in it just for giggles.  Once upon a time I fixed a bug in the SBT Payroll module that way (bastard stiffed me on my fee too, which is why I don't do custom programming anymore).

                My main point is, as I always tell my customers, that it's not at all amazing when computers screw up.  Nope, what's amazing is that they work at all.

                Looking bad?  Appearance of impropriety?  You know, I just don't take it that seriously.  Most people who leave do so for their own reasons, one of which is "I disagree, strongly".  And the vast majority also don't feel the need to make a big deal about it so they can feel justified in their martyrdom.  Some of the posts will still be around and if you read them you will see that Diebold polls are just an excuse for suicide by police.   He doesn't even really believe it, he's just posturing in front of a mirror.

                I've made myself just as obnoxious as I possibly can since I joined in April.  Kos, Armando, DHinMI, Plutonium Page, Hunter, Meteor Blades, Bob Johnson, Bob Johnson's dog (if your name is not on this list and should be, please accept my heartfelt apologies) I've pissed 'em all off, or at least I've tried to.

                Yet here I am.  Tada.

                I've decided I just don't have the energy to get banned and join the elite what, eight?  I'm sure I could count high enough if I took off my shoes.

                I have seen magical things happen (disappearing comments are mere card tricks, anyone can do them with enough practice).  I will revise and extend my toes to include persistent trolls who usually reveal themselves in just a few posts.  Removing comments and Deleting diaries are the mark of the adept, but I believe kos when he says no one gets banned except by him.

                I like to think that every real magician does their homework.  I know that most of us who deal in illusion do not.  Sigh.

                But back to wacky polls ('melvin' you are soo right, my arguments are circular and elliptical).  Umm... there are artifacts on this site.  In my collection of odd is an extended conversation with 'tlh lib' in a deleted diary using the comments tab of my page.  That is a 9.

                My substantive advice is to go here and choose 'Tech support'.  If you are saying that self selected internet polls are inaccurate, my 30+ years in Marketing Research and my 10,000 line crosstab program agree.  If you think that 7 people disappeared overnight, I know where to find several designs for a tinfoil hat.  Me, my room is a Faraday cage.  It really screws up my wireless network though.

                by ek hornbeck on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 11:56:46 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  wtf is up with that? (4.00 / 2)

    Why does John McCain think America should hide from it's enemies?

    by drag0n on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 09:53:19 PM PDT

    •  The problem may (none / 0)

      be that you assume that the comment count is correct.

      I have noticed since the site shut down last Saturday, that the comment count has been acting wacky.

      Sometimes after refreshing, the number of comments will decrease.

      If that is the case, then the screenshot with 54 votes could be older than the one with 61 votes.

      Just a thought.

      The Republicans have a fundamental problem with telling the truth - Howard Dean.

      by NYC Sophia on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 06:06:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The comment count was correct (none / 0)

        At least in the sense that that was the current page when I took the screen shots.

        If anything what might have happened is that an earlier version of the poll results (from a database backup maybe) was added to the page.

        Why does John McCain think America should hide from it's enemies?

        by drag0n on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 08:35:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  glitch , alot of them lately (none / 0)

    if dkos f...ed with polls it would also mass ban & i would NOT be writeing this now.

    American Fascism 101 A Must Read

    by cognitive dissonance on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 10:02:21 PM PDT

  •  If some of the respondents ... (none / 0)

    ... are no longer members of the dkos community, the response count would be reduced.

    The Great Obama might saw the lady in half, but he won't make the elephant disappear. The Confluence

    by RonK Seattle on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 10:13:09 PM PDT

    •  Not necessarily (none / 0)

      Without knowing how the database tabulates poll entries you have no reason to assume that.

      It is possible that each entry is tied to a user. That would be an incredible load on the database though.

      It would also mean that the vote is not anonymous. As it appears. That's not as bad as rigging a poll, but people should know that how they vote in polls is logged.

      by TocqueDeville on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 10:40:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  When you consider... (none / 0)

    ...the many diaries that slam kos and/or Armando, I doubt either would waste their time hacking the vote.  There have been all kinds of glitches in the past few days...issues with timestamps, newly posted diaries starting near the bottom of the recent list, and for me personally, a poll appeared in one of my diaries (with no question or options) and couldn't be edited out.  

    Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

    by BarbinMD on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 10:17:38 PM PDT

  •  More: Check this out (none / 1)

    On Rec List with only 12 (now 16) recommends:

    Frist finds the water getting a tad hotter

    Then this diary gets 26 recommends and yet doesn't make the recommended list:

    52. Fascist billboards become mainstream

    I've always suspected that external forces were gaming the Recommended List. Now I have proof.

    Unless there's some other criteria other than how many people recommended a diary that determines whether it makes the list, an administrator is rigging the system.

    I see the Frist diary is up to 19 now. I think I'll post a whole diary on how someone is corrupting the process here.

    by TocqueDeville on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 10:32:21 PM PDT

  •  Good Lord (none / 0)

    I always knew Armando was a loony, but seeing his posts in that thread he seems positively unhinged.  That man needs a beer.

    Just another 2L in the court of life...

    by BrodyV on Mon Dec 05, 2005 at 10:53:50 PM PDT

  •  I think the downtime (none / 0)

    A little while ago was due to ct skewing the results in this poll.

    When do I get to vote on your marriage?

    by tvb on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 12:44:22 AM PDT

  •  UPDATE (none / 0)

    You missed the key "Heh."

    It was a joke.

    It could have been a 1000-0 votes in favor of reinstatement and that would have no effect.

    Markos banned him. His vote is the only one that matters.

    As for the rest of this paranoid fantasy, talk about unhinged.

    Everybody dies alone.

    by Armando on Tue Dec 06, 2005 at 04:19:35 AM PDT

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