Daily Kos

Old, Old Europe

Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 09:04:56 AM PDT

This diary is my attempt to follow up on Jerome's diary Schroeder says - NATO is over.  

Too many Americans, and liberals in particular, are Europhiles. At times, these attitudes are just outright effete.  The truth is that European wealth was based on exploiting the New World and the greatest tyranny the world has seen has come out of Europe over the past 400 years, going right through the end of the 20th century.  Yet, many Americans sound and act like European models of social structure are to be emulated.

'Old Europe,' 'New Europe,'  doesn't matter to me.   ALL of Europe can go off and do whatever they like as far as I'm concerned now that they no longer have the power to plunder the rest of the world.  The 21st Century lies in building relationships and forging alliances with the 'New World' where there are larger markets and more resources, natural and human.  It would be much more beneficial for the United States to focus on rebuilding relationships with Africa, Asia and South America then fretting over what Europeans think.

The real foreign policy tragedy of the Bush Administration is not the deterioration of the relationship with Europe, it's the erosion of goodwill the United States had with nations in Africa and South America that was being built up during the Clinton Administration.   I would rather see a change of focus in United States policy to embrace Mercusor, the South American trading bloc; India, where there is a huge, underemployed educated class; and build relations with resource-rich African nations.

The United States should support the desire of  Brazil and India to have seats as permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and tell the French and British to give up their chairs.  Let united 'Euro' share a seat.  Brazil and India would be good examples to others in developing world because they are democracies working to build modern economies.  Brazil's decision to play a major role in the peacekeeping force in Haiti is intended to show their intent to play a larger role in world affairs.  In spite of its problems, India is a modern miracle in that a democracy could exist within such a polyglot.  Tthese nations should be promoted.  Dictatorships and monarchies need not apply.  

There was never more goodwill towards the United States in Africa than at the end of the Clinton Administration following his tour of sub Saharan nations.  Colin Powell attempted to carry on the relationships but he was swimming upstream.  Following up on rewarding democracies, the U.S. should focus on South Africa.  Supporting the South Africans' wish to host the Olympics is long on symbolism, cheap, but would go a long way in rebuilding relationships.  Plus, American companies can go down there and build lots of infrastructure.  Win-win, and the other African nations can see that with democracy comes rewards  

China is an oppressive and tyrannical country.  A human rights horror show.  Yet, there is little outcry over human rights abuses there (except interesting enough, from the Evangelical right).  Some in the other thread note that the Europeans will forge alliances with Chinese that can will rival U.S.  If the Europeans want to build closer ties to China, fine, let them.  It wasn't too long ago when Britain went to war with China in order to sell more opium to Chinese, so rights abuses shouldn't bother them and the Chinese need some place to dump their cheap goods so it just as well be Europe.  I don't think either side benefits there.  But a human rights policy that would make it difficult for North American companies to manufacture in China would be better for the U.S. and the rest of the developing world.  For the past decade, factories have been closing in Mexico and moving to China where production is chaepaer.  It defeats the whole purpose of NAFTA to have manufacturing relocating from Latin America to Asia.  High tariffs need to be imposed on Chinese-manufactured goods and the American consumer wouldn't have to suffer.   Every country in the Americas except Cuba is now a democracy. However, almost all of these countries have a huge problem with poverty.  With a trade policy focusing on developing manufacturing in the Americas where costs are low but respect for human rights is increasing, fragile democracies are strengthened and United States interests are furthered.

Fortunately, all of these issues and choices will exist after the Bush Administration is gone.   What's most important is for Americans to stop thinking that relationships with Europe are the foundation of foreign policy and realize that a 'New World' is emerging in the 21st Century.

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  •  Good gracious (4.00 / 5)

    This is a bit of an anti-Euro screed isn't it?

    Yet, many Americans sound and act like European models of social structure are to be emulated.

    Why not? I moved to Europe and it was partly because of that "social structure" you dislike.  The towns are not wracked with violent crime, people can go to the doctor, there are a wide variety of political parties to represent different viewpoints, the food is made from natural plants rather than ones created in a laboratory and everyone gets enough vacation to keep from going crazy.

    'Old Europe,' 'New Europe,'  doesn't matter to me.   ALL of Europe can go off and do whatever they like as far as I'm concerned now that they no longer have the power to plunder the rest of the world.

    I don't know what your version of "plunder" is but European nations and countries will play a significant role around the world in everything from petroleum and gas extraction, weapons manufacturing and sales, foreign investment both directly and indirectly through agencies (IMF, WB, ADB, etc), the United Nations and even manufacturing.

    The EU economy is larger than is the United States' and its population is greater.  What are you talking about??

    I would rather see a change of focus in United States policy to embrace Mercusor, the South American trading bloc

    It's actually Mercosur, and that trading bloc only encompasses Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay and Argentina.  There are other South American trading blocs, including the Community of Andean Nations as well as bilateral agreements such as between Cuba and Venezuela.

    And the Bush administration is pushing hard for agreements like CAFTA.

    I don't know where your anger is coming from but perhaps you could take a deep breath of air before launching into this topic further.  Sound fair?

    Pax

    Night and day you can find me Flogging the Simian

    by Soj on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 09:14:42 AM PDT

    •  Not to mention US crimes. (4.00 / 2)

      If we are to start accusing Europe of its past crimes, we might also want to take a look at how the US treated its indigenous populations and its neighbors.

      A thousand years ago the Scandinavians were bloodthirsty barbarians terrorizing the rest of the continent. Now they are the most civilized people on the planet, giving more foreign aid per capita than anyone else.

      Today the EU is the greatest proponent of law-based international relations and soft-power diplomacy. I, at least, would prefer to follow that path.

      The concept of the West has taken a beating but it is still valuable and one of BushCo's greatest crimes has been the damage to Western unity they have brought about.

      Thinking dangerous thoughts in the birthplace of democracy

      by Athenian on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 09:31:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Mea culpa! (none / 0)

        AND Japan's treatment of China during WWII, AND The atrocities of the Khmer Rouge, AND the genocide of Tiglath Pilser against northern India, AND David's genocidal slaughter of the Phillistines ...

        And come to think of it, we homo sapiens more than likely wiped out the Neandertals 40,000 years ago.  

        "You can't negotiate with reality" - James Kunstler

        by Bob Love on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 10:48:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Touchy, touchy (none / 0)

      I am hardly angry at Europeans.  I actually have dual U.S.-French citizenship, so I'm entitled to take full advantage of the 'social structure' you left this country to seek and claim I dislike.

      For the record, there is plenty of street crime in many parts of Europe, particularly the U.K. and the cities in Southern France.  And the wide variety of political parties you mention include more than a handful of neo-Nazis.

      Moreover, nothing you write negates my point that the U.S. interetsts lie in developing stronger relations with the developing world rather than focusing on Europe.

      I think you are being far too defensive and may want to breath that fresh air.

  •  One Problem (none / 1)

    Most of the New World prefers Europe to us and trusts them more and is busy doing deals with Old Europe.
    You are right, Old Europe built its wealth on plunder etc. However, we have managed to build an image as a barbaric bully which will remain our legacy for years to come. With all this going on few now remember the colonialist past of Europe.
    This leaves the EU as the dominant trading block in the world on a charm offensive through Asia and Africa as China and India increase their Euro reserve percentages at the expense of the dollar.
    It is easy to say forget Europe (or China), but we just are not in a strong enough position to do that, and "our" multinationals will not take kindly to that either.
    •  Have you Asked the Africans ? (none / 0)

      Jacques Chirac's biennial party of African dictators is not "charming" by any description.  It's as neo-colonial as it gets.  All that's missing are the military hats with ostrich plumes.  And ask the people of Cote D'Ivoire, Zimbabwe, or Algeria if they've forgotten the colonial past.  

      Our multinationals have always enjoyed taking advantage ofrepressive regimes, and that's why American policies should be used to reward democratic, developing nations rather than continuing in Old Europe, exploitation of poor nations status quo.

  •  'Effete'? (none / 0)

    Spiro Agnew lives.

    "L'enfer, c'est les autres." - Jean Paul Sartre, Huis Clos

    "L'enfer, c'est le GOP!" - JJB, from an idea by oratorio

    by JJB on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 09:28:44 AM PDT

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