Daily Kos

Update on the Giuliana Sgrena story

Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:02:03 PM PDT

Right now, it's basically the word of the US military versus the word of the Italian government on what happened.  From CNN:
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi says the intelligence agent shot dead by the U.S. military told them he would be escorting a newly released hostage to the airport -- contrary to U.S. claims.

Another Italian attache, who was at the Baghdad airport, also told U.S. military personnel the car carrying agent Nicola Calipari and journalist Giuliana Sgrena was on its way to the airport March 4 before the shooting occurred, Berlusconi told the Italian senate on Wednesday.

Gen Casey in his latest press conference:
Q     ...[A]re there any preliminary indications that the Italians had communicated with the United States and the U.S. military that she had been freed and was on her way to the airport?
 GEN. CASEY:  Yeah.  I have no preliminary indication that that's true.

We can't even agree on the simplest facts:

Italian military officials said two other agents were wounded, but U.S. officials said it was only one.
One thing I found interesting was that according to Sgrena:
Sgrena told colleagues the vehicle was not travelling fast and had already passed several checkpoints on its way to the airport.
If what she said is true, I would think that the Italians told the Americans at the prior check point who they were, that they had a recovered hostage and that they were heading to the airport.  I don't see them getting past the other check points otherwise.  Did the checkpoints not notify anyone?

Now, the Italians apparently had a plane at the airport waiting to take the team back to Italy:

Q     General, the plane was at the airport.  So someone knew that the Italians were coming to the airport to spirit out this -- the journalist and the security agents.  Who was aware that that plane was at the airport?

GEN. CASEY:  I think that's something that the investigation will sort out here.

Q     You don't know who communicated that the --

GEN. CASEY:  As I said, I don't.  I don't have that information.

Q     So you basically have no information at all about what happened here, about the airplane being at the airport, about the route?

GEN. CASEY:   I have some information about what took place at the checkpoint.

The next curious thing is the picture of the car:

Here is the initial press statement from the military:
U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle."
I can't see any damage to the grill of the car.  Now, the pictures show only the driver side of the car, but most of the grill looks to be in view.  The Jawa Report has more pictures.  It looks like the photographer took pictures of where there was damage and didn't take any pictures of the grill area.  It looks like what brought the car to a stop was a flat tire.

I find it interesting the right half of the  blogosphere are apparently covering this story much more than the that left half.  And they are accepting the military line completely and they are using inconsistancies in Sgrena's public statements to "prove" the US military is correct.  From the earlier Guardian story:

The Americans shone a flashlight at the car and then fired between 300 and 400 bullets at if from an armoured vehicle.
I agree that the car doesn't have much apparent bullet damage and the 300 to 400 figure appears to be a wild overstatement, but I don't think I could accurately estimate the number of shots that came at me when I was suddenly fired upon.  An example of the explaining away from the The Jawa Report:
A single bullet hit one of the three passengers making it all but certain that the US version of events is accurate and that Sgrena is intentionally lying to make the US look bad.
Three or four people were wounded, so the Jawa Report apparently thinks that one bullet struck an agent in the front seat, struck Nicola Calipari in the head and then struck Sgrena.  His analysis looks brilliant compared to Jack Lewis:
Was the bullet analyzed to see if actually came from the Americans? Could Calipari have been set up, and murdered by Sgrena's own people in order to stage a scene that would embarrass America? The other two occupants of the car might have information -- but where are they? Remember, there is still quite a bit of speculation about whether she was even kidnapped in the first place.

But the right wing doesn't address what I think is the major weakness of the US military's story - why would a highly-trained Italian secret service agent in a car with two other highly-trained secret service agents approach a check point at high speed and then ignored hand and arm signals, flashing white lights and then warning shots?  You can call Sgrena stupid, a traitor, etc, but the story is about an Italian secret service agent being killed and one or two more injured while Sgrena is in the back seat of the car.  Remember that "A senior U.S. military official tells ABC News he believes the investigation into the fatal shooting of an Italian intelligence officer by U.S. troops in Iraq will ultimately prove the officer's car was traveling in excess of 100 mph."  A car traveling at 100 mph covers 146 feet per second and would take at least 530 ft (or nearly two football fields) to come to a complete stop.  Assuming 15 seconds from when the check point saw the car to when they started shooting in earnest, that means on a rainy night they started signalling to the car when it was over a half mile away.  I don't know what happened, but the US military's story doesn't ring true to me.

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  •  Tip jar (4.00 / 4)

    Let me know what you think!
  •  I have a question about the car (none / 0)


    I am sure I saw in some earlier reports references to the vehicle being a truck or an SUV.

    Initially, the US said that they did not know where the car was, and now the Italian press has pictures of a car, not a truck or an SUV.

    I can't remember where I saw the reports about a truck, does anyone have a link?

    blog updated 6-1
    one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

    by DuctapeFatwa on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:00:17 PM PDT

    •  Previous reports (none / 0)

      The previous reports I had seen merely said the vehicle was a car that was one that was recommended as being especially good for the particular mission, as it was one favored by diplomats.  I never recall reading anything about it being a truck or SUV.

      I'm still an Edwards supporter, and a Patriots fan. Not having the best year here...

      by Stymnus on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:42:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Found it! First reported as pickup truck (none / 0)

        from Jawa, no less, citing La Repubblica

        -------
        Italian television station Tg1 reports that a car was used. I have pictures up here. Not sure which report to believe yet.....

        This important and overlooked new detail arises. If you have seen as many jihadi videos as me then you know that the vehicle of choice is the small Japanese pickup truck. Check this WaTimes article out:

        The left-leaning Italian newspaper La Repubblica reported yesterday that Mr. Calipari decided not to use available escort protection from the elite commandos who protect Italy's Baghdad embassy.

        Instead, he rented an inconspicuous pickup truck to recover Miss Sgrena, wrote La Repubblica's top investigative reporter, Giuseppe D'Avanzo.

        link

        blog updated 6-1
        one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

        by DuctapeFatwa on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:53:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I think Oswald (4.00 / 2)

    shot the bullet.

    P.S. Don't worry, I'm sure the US military will look into this matter and clear up the confusion.

  •  Speed of Car (none / 0)

    I was watching the Newshour yesterday and it reported the American forces said the car was doing over 160mph!! That car doesn't look like it could to that speed on a race track, let alone a street in Baghdad.

    Cheers,
    Laren

    •  Digging a Deeper Foxhole (none / 0)

      And as the diarist very rightly points out... Higher car speeds mean they had less time for a warning. And raises the question of why three experienced Italian secret service agents were travelling at 160 mph after passing three checkpoints. (IE, in a supposedly safe area)

    •  must be km/h, not mph (none / 0)

      See quote by RHunter downthread which says 100mph, which happens to be 160km/h (kilometer per hour). Even that seems pretty darn unlikely if you ask me, but 160mph you really can't do except on an interstate or on a race course.

      Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!

      by brainwave on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:18:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  MPH (none / 0)

        That was my point. I don't know if the car could even GO that fast. And it was definately MPH. It was an American news report, quoting an American spokesman. I took notice because it seemed such a ridiculous speed to say they were travelling at.

        Yes, Italians do drive fast (my Dad has horror stories of Naples and Rome), but there would be few people who could control a car at that speed in the best of circumstances let alone a rainy, presumably narrow Baghdad street.

        Cheers,
        Laren

    •  Especially as it approached a (none / 0)

      90 degree curve (according to Minister Fini's report to the Italian Parliament).
  •  General Comment (none / 0)

    "A senior U.S. military official tells ABC News he believes the investigation into the fatal shooting of an Italian intelligence officer by U.S. troops in Iraq will ultimately prove the officer's car was traveling in excess of 100 mph."

    Is it me, or does it sound an awful lot like the senior U.S. military official already knows what the outcome of the investigation's going to be? That seems to point quite strongly towards a cover-up... Though whether it's a cover-up of an unfortunate accident or a cover-up of a right-wing criminal conspiracy is another question entirely.

  •  For whatever reasons exist, (none / 0)

    the Bush administration always lies first about these things: Jessica Lynch, Pat Tillman etc. That being said, this time, since it is a foreigner, I don't think that they will be able to control the situation or much of the investigation. I imagine that Italy will be pulling out of the coalition soon.

    I'm too disgusted right now to think of a sig.

    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:10:16 PM PDT

  •  I thought Guiliana said that the road was (none / 0)

    muddy because there had been heavy rains in Baghdad.  
    •  when it rains (none / 1)

      it pours in Baghdad.

      I say Rove needs t get the Swift Boats on this story, pronto.  

      •  In fact (none / 0)

        One of the factors that was attributed to not seeing any hand signals was the fact that when this incident took place, it was pouring rain.

        I have a Corolla (which is what that car is) and would not want to be driving 100mph in a downpour on the BEST of roads.  Granted I'm not the professional driver the Italian major at the wheel probably is but still, it would surprise me if they were travelling that fast on a road that was basically safe (past checkpoints), no matter how much of a hurry they might have been in.

        I'm still an Edwards supporter, and a Patriots fan. Not having the best year here...

        by Stymnus on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:40:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Not Surprisingly - Right Wing Facts Seem Off (none / 0)

    As usual, the non-fact based community, who think they are about faith, but aren't, seem far off the mark.  If this car had been traveling at 100 (or 160!! - did they have radar?!) mph when the shooting started, you can bet that when that tire was punctured by bullets, the car would have done more than skid to a gentle stop.  It's a highly unlikely story, spread by people who will say anything to bolster "their side" - regardless of the facts.  And this is with regard to an issue involving steadfast allies!!!  No loyalty there, when it comes to getting away with lying and slaying the innocent and pure of heart, any crime to escape personal responsibility is okay to neo-con(artist) Republicans.

    It is harder to believe that a professional military would be so piss ass poor at lying, but what can one say?  With incompetent leaders giving the orders, I guess they have to make do with what they have - scrambled eggs.  It's an outrageous situation and I do not think that Italy has a choice BUT to pull out.  Thanks Dubya!  Putting us up the creek without a paddle seems to be your sub-conscious aim, and you're doing a good job at that G.W. and co.

  •  Single shot to the temple? (none / 0)

    The agent was apparently killed by a single shot to the temple. Does that sound like the job of a sniper to anyone? (I.e., the single bullet was aimed at Sgrena, but he tried to save her.) I supposed we can't know until we see the car.

    My teeth aren't white enough for DailyKos, so adios.

    by DrReason on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 10:35:48 PM PDT

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