Daily Kos

Infuriated with the DNC

Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 12:21:53 PM PDT

Update [2005-4-5 19:7:9 by georgia10]:: Obviously, I expressed some extremely unpopular opinions, some of which some commentators below think are unsupported by the facts.

A couple things I want to clarify. I am not blaming anything entirely on Dean. I understand he's been on the job for a couple months, but I still don't think that excuses the performance of the DNC in the meantime.

As for the website part of the diary, that's personal taste, take it as you will.

As for the writing style of this diary, I have to say, it's weird getting so many comments and emails about it. OK, so I'm having an off day! To be honest, I'm more suprised by my "on" days myself. :)

Anyway, I'm out until late tonight, but I'll try to respond to some comments when I get back. I appreciate all comments, both positive and negative, thus far. Thanks.

Update [2005-4-5 22:47:15 by georgia10]:: Well, read through all the comments. Interesting debate, it is. Thank to all who have read this diary, and all of my diaries.
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I was thinking of how to start off in a witty and catchy manner, or perhaps I should have begun by waxing eloquently about the how the Democratic Party  is a party of principle that stands as the barrier island against the crashing waves of right-wing facism that seek to erode our core American values.  But you know what?

Fuck the DNC.

I'm in a foul mood, with foul reflections on the current state of affairs, so consider yourself forwarned that I'm about to open a can of  some reality-based verbal whoop-ass.  DNC lovers? Brace yourselves. Deaniacs? Hold tight.  

Here is the question I've had on my mind for a while now that I wish I could ask the DNC.  Where the fuck are you?  Yeah, I know.  When your opponent is shooting himself in the foot, stay away.  Speak softly, carry a big Stick. Plan in the trenches, then launch the attack.  

Yeah, I know the DNC is faxing out press releases on a daily basis (but seriously, does anyone think those don't instantaneously get folded into origami swans in the news room?).   I know they're airing radio ads against privatization, I'm not saying they've been sitting on their asses watching The George Lopez show, sucking on their Cheeto-flavored orange fingers mulling over how to win more of the Hispanic vote.  They've been working. But have they been working effectively?

Let's take Dr. Dean.  He raised $3.4 million dollars in the first few weeks of his election as DNC chair.  Woo-fucking-hoo.  Besides a blurb here and there about calling Santorum a liar or saying Republicans are brain-dead, have the words "Democratic National Committee" gotten any attention at all?  Nope.  

Dean is out grassrootin' in conservative areas, like he's still on the 2004 campaign trail.  Wake up, Howard, wake up.  You're a national leader now, and need to take on a national role.

It's been five months since the election.  And yet, the DNC still has The Shittiest Political Website On The Web.  State chapters of the DNC have better websites.  You think I'm kidding?  Check out the new Illinois website. Go ahead.  See how much more inviting and professional it is?  But then again, look at the Florida Democratic Party page.  Or the boring, can-our-text-be-any-smaller website of the Colorado Democratic Party. Holy shit, with crap like that, is there any wonder why some aren't buying the party's marketing?  

Why the fuck isn't the DNC reaching out to these chapters, helping them with more professional and inviting designs, and hey, maybe even have each site have a "Daily DNC" section where we can learn what the fuck you're doing on a day to day basis without having to visit The Shittiest Political Website On The Web?

Image.  It's something the DNC just plain doesn't get.  

Speaking of image, my next bone of contention with the awol DNC.  You know, for once, I would love to turn on the TV and see *gasp* a Democrat on air.  An honest to goodness Democrat.  Not a liberal, not a progressive, but a fucking representative of the Democratic party.  

Check that.   I've seen the DNC representatives before, and they've gotten their asses handed to them when they try the pundit thing.  

I've mentioned this before, but the DNC needs a core group of blazing-heart liberals to launch an assault on the media.  Yeah, Media Matters keeps reporting about the conservative bias on panels, and I used to think it was a big bad RWCM ploy.  But I'm thinking it's also just pure incompetence on the part of the DNC.  Why in the world doesn't the DNC get on the phone and demand to have a representative on Hardball, or Hannity's show, or Wolf's attempt to dispense the news? Hell, call up O'Reilly and tell him you'd love to have a DNC representative on.  You'll even bring your own loofah.

But for the love of God, do something!  You talk about the right-wing noise machine but the DNC is just sitting there, humming to itself away in the corner, afraid to enter the fray.  What a pathetic state of affairs it is when the left blogosphere lights up when someone has the balls to call Hannity "stupid" on air. Oh, golly, gee whiz!  Someone (not affiliated with the DNC, btw) got a nugget of truth on the airwaves!  Woo-hoo!  Get ready for a Democratic landslide in 2006!!!

Get real.  

The DNC needs to get its shit together. And by "get its shit together" I mean fuck with the media the way it fucks with you.  Get the snarkiest, most intelligent, fiery bunch of libs you find (hey, Maryscott volunteers!) and get them to become the public face of the DNC.  Their sole job will be to be seen on show after show, shooting down lie after lie, proving that Democrats are smart and articulate and inviting, and can be damn enlightening too.

Ask any American who represents the conservatives (non-politicians) and you get Rush, Hannity, Dobson, etc.  The right has its pool of passion that it draws on to spread its message.  Where is ours?

<crickets chirping>

Damn straight.  We don't have one.  And I'll tell you why.  Because of the bubble.

Who listens to Air America?  Mostly liberals.  Who reads DailyKos and the rest of the lefty blogs?  Mostly liberals (and Gannon, who gets a rise out of googling his own name and tallying how much attention we give him). So all of this energy, all of this fact-finding, all the posts on Cornyn and prisoner abuse and Delay and paying pundits and blacklisting Americans, all of that is trapped in our own isolated existence.  We are like the deaf and dumb, who have a whole world inside ourselves that we simply cannot project outward.

And that is where the DNC comes in.

It needs to be that bridge, that pin that pops the ever-expanding bubble of energy and lets all that frenzy and passion and truth rush out into the open air of media exposure. It needs to have that core group of attack dogs I mentioned picking up talking points and gauging political impact from the blogosphere, and transferring that into the national media on behalf of the DNC and democrats in general.

The DNC needs to be the clearinghouse and amplifier for the left wing noise machine.

But no.  Instead of adequate representation in the national media, instead of a unified message, we get the occasional email, with a dozen fucking links to sign this or that and that goddamn huge "support the DNC" button that infuriates me, because when was the last time the DNC supported me?

The DNC is finally getting that it has to play ball, but it's playing soccer while the RNC is playing football.  It needs to realize this is a different game now, and new tactics are needed.

Dean can plant all the grassroots he wants, but with Santorum spreading his lies and Delay spraying his special brand of bullshit into the political arena, the Republicans have applied an excellent truth-killer which is also killing off any chance that Dean's grassroots are going to be enough to win in 2006 and 2008.  

Get your shit together, DNC. You're playing with the big boys now.

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Permalink | 307 comments

  •  That's right: NATIONAL committee (4.00 / 4)

    There needs to be a better DNC presence on the media, and IMO a push for a national primary in presidential elections.

    I'm going to see Dr. Dean next week at a fundraiser that I got invited to be friends far wealthier than I. Just supposing I got the chance to ask a question, what should it be?

    McCain is a Chode.

    by dnamj on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 12:22:24 PM PDT

    •  I would ask (4.00 / 5)

      When are you going to clean house over there at the DNC and get some trully masterful communicators to start getting the message out and take advantage of the numerous opportunities we have been missing in the the past five years?
      •  Narrowing it down (4.00 / 3)

        Can you think of any golden opportunities that are are currently missing or are about to?

        Like: At what point will the DNC start calling for an exit strategy.

        When will accountability for military contractors become an issue?

        Will the DNC ever begin talking about Poverty again?

        I personally am on the "national presidential primary all on one day" bandwagon myself.

        McCain is a Chode.

        by dnamj on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 01:09:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ask him what the DNC is doing about (4.00 / 14)

      election fraud? As far as I'm concerned, if we don't fix that, we don't have a prayer.
    •  Please tell him (4.00 / 2)

      to get our guys on TV more.  That is the most important part!!! It is rediculous how everyone (politicians, anchors, pundits) just sit there and lie and lie and NO ONE calls them out on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      It's not easy being a Floridian

      by lawstudent922 on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 01:33:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ask Dean if he knows who Georgia10 is, (4.00 / 7)

      what she had to say, if he's hired yet, and if not, why not?

      "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." General Nathanael Greene, Continental Army, April, 1781.

      by faithnomore on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 01:51:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I second that question! (none / 0)

        You go girl!
        •  Hired? Hah! (none / 1)

          I went into DNC headquarters the other day and the place was as empty (and as depressing) as a bombed out Kmart in Grozny. Just walking around I could see why we lost the last campaign. The place needs a complete makeover. What staff existed seemed bored out of their minds. Take them to task!

          The Book of Revelation is not a foreign policy manual.

          by Dont Just Stand There on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 06:19:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That bothers me (4.00 / 2)

            ...empty (and depressing) as a bombed out Kmart in Grozny.

            That is so sad.

            The DNC headquarters should be HUMMING with activity these days. I love to imagine the place staffed with 100% Kossacks--and then maybe something would actually start to happen!

            •  We Should Stage a Sit-In (none / 0)

              There.

              Where is this place, anyway? Oh, It's probably inside the beltway. That's a little hard to get to from Sunnyvale.

              Speaking of protests, we ought to stage a protest outside the TV offices in every city. That would be one way to get the message across. Instead of 100,000 people on The Mall we could have 100 people at 1000 TV and radio stations, newspaper buildings. Every reporter would have to cross a picket line to get to work. We could have a Truth In Media Oxymoron Protest day or something.

              •  Or Maybe a "Work" In (none / 0)

                Instead of a "sit in" which sounds a little like what they are doing over there - maybe we should go over there and work just to get the energy level up.

                Let's start "Take a Constituent to Work" day at the DNC!

                Oh I don't want to beat them up - I just want them to act a little more inspired and be a little more inspiring.

    •  Well, the job description (none / 0)

      as far as I know reqired that Dean not be a spokesperson or set party policy.
      I love Dean but part of the reason I didn't want him here is his Truman-like straight talk and charisma will not be fully realized as chair.
      In fact this very day I was trying to think of a way to organize getting Dean to run in '08. It makes no sense to me that our most powerful Democrat who unlike most frames the debate, is out of the running to allow Clinton to run. As with Kerry, Clinton will go down.
      •  the job description is wrong (none / 0)

        There are reasons Dean was elected.  It was people wanted to see him be Dean.  If the whole point was someone who could master minimum competency than Mcaullife should have stayed.  The most powerful CEO's are not hired because they are wanted to fit within a tightly defined job description.  
      •  job description? (4.00 / 2)

        Well, the job description as far as I know reqired that Dean not be a spokesperson or set party policy.

        I have no idea how the DNC is organized or run, but is there really anything stopping Dean from tossing this job description you invoke out the window?  

        I mean, part of the problem with the party (evidently) is an abject failure to inspire even its own supporters.  One reason for this is clearly a moribund deference to patently ineffectual ways of doing business.

        Job descriptions get us people like Kerry.  We need prophets who will set the joint on fire, not hacks who fall in line.  

        ...But Achilles, weeping, sat down at a distance far from his companions, beside the whitening waves, his eyes fixed upon the boundless sea.

        by weeping for brunnhilde on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 05:14:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I shared your worries, (none / 0)

        besides I would give my left hypothetical nut to see him run again. However, he is building the base on the one hand, while increasing the number of Deaniacs on the other. Why? Because it is his charisma and ass kicking truth telling that hooks folks in the first place.

        If we win big in '06 under Howard's leadership, don't you think his now widely expanded base will clamor for him? And if the people really demand it, he will have to cave - as he is all about empowering us. I seem to remember that he wasn't that into being chair in the first place until he heard that his base really wanted it via conference calls.

      •  That's why Dean is there (none / 0)

        What you are complaining about is exactly why I wanted Dean in his current spot.  The DNC needs a shakeup, and he's just the man for the job.  I'm willing to give him some time to get a firm grasp of how the DNC currently operates, and then decide what changes to make.  That's what any good manager would do.. I suppose he could go in with both barrels blazing, but he'd likely do more harm than good.

        And on your other topic, I think Hillary is far more formidable than you do.  She's a terrific campaigner, and she's smarter than any of the guys the repugs can send up in 2008.  And most important, she's already been through 50 kinds of hell, so she isn't afraid of them, and is more than willing to fight.

        "The job of the newspaper is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable." Finley Peter Dunne

        by Jack109 on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 06:36:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But I Won't Vote for Hillary (4.00 / 3)

          until she decides to be a liberal. Which is, I suspect, never.

          I'm afraid I associate Hillary with Bill, which I associate with drifting to the right in order to win the Presidency. To me that's a losing strategy for the Democratic Party and how we got into the pickle that represents the green walls around us.

          OTOH, if she'd voted to decertify the Ohio vote or did something now that showed that she understood where the Democratic Party should be then I might reconsider. It would have to be a fairly radical change and one that showed a true change of heart. Otherwise, she's just another centrist to me.

    •  Say... (none / 0)

      When you were elected, us on the left, who have been the most loyal base and supported the Democratic Party and YOUR campaign financially and with alot of time, expected now we would have a party that truly would battle Bush. Rather, we have seen little if any media change, and it seems "the same ol' DNC". Why is this? We need a change now.! Tell him that
    •  Print out this thread (none / 0)

      put it in an envelope, and give it to him.

      Tarheel born, tarheel bred! And when I die, I'll be tarheel dead.

      by NCYellowDog on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 06:34:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not Sure (none / 0)

    I'm not 100% sure about all of this, but I definitely think that fighting spirit and enthusiasm need to be high up there on the list of priorities for the party.  I don't think the DNC website is so terrible, but -- the left is packed full of highly-motivated electronic activists, many of whom are whizzes at this kind of thing.  How about getting some volunteers on board to really wire the party and bring the whole thing online?

    "Truck Stop Women," a New Film By Phil Gramm and John McCain.

    by bink on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 12:23:58 PM PDT

    •  Firefox & The DNC (none / 0)

      The DNC website displays incorrectly under my copy of Firefox 1.0.2, as well as with Firefox 1.0.0, 1.0.1.  
      •  And since I (none / 0)

        wrote a diary specifically on that topic, let me restate its "results."

        80% of people who answered had no problems viewing the DNC site with Firefox.  15% had very minor cosmetic problems.  I have huge problems that make the site completely unusable from Firefox on all major operating systems, and no solution.

        I think the layout is ok, and clearly it works for most everyone.

        Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

        by ubikkibu on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:48:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Heres the thing (4.00 / 5)

      we do have the smartest young people, that's why they're liberals. What they have is money. A young conservative interested in politics has a job doing politics. The talking heads you see on TV? The dems are volunteers, the Repubs are getting paid. We've got to quit giving all the money to high paid consultants and start hiring field organizers and geeks. So maybe that's what I'd ask him, who you gonna hire?

      "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

      by johnmorris on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:51:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And That's All True Because (none / 0)

        they own the United States of America.

        They own the economy, they own the information spaces, they own the culture, they represent religion, and they own the military.

        That gives them a considerable talent pool to craft message, a sizeable bankroll to pay spokespeople, and almost every square foot and pixel of the United States into which to deploy them.

        A nation isn't a collection of voters, it's the collection of power blocks, only some of which are voters. We have 1/3 of the voters and almost none of everything else.

        So we're not going to match their presence regardless of message, charisma or enthusiasm.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 08:59:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Fairness in the workplace (4.00 / 2)

      applies especially to the DNC.  Screw the volunteer crap.  Hire someone who's qualified, who's already volunteered, and pay them the going rate.  Understand there's a few million left in the kitty.  They need to put their money where their mouth is.
  •  Actually the Illinois website (4.00 / 2)

    sucks ass. absolutely terrible design. too much stuff on the front page, and no real layout.
    •  And actually out of the three (none / 0)

      The best base design i liked best was the colorado site. it needs more color and more pizzaz, but as far as the layout goes, its probably the best. Florida one isn't terrible, but it looks cheap.
      •  I should have just posted all of this at once (none / 0)

        Now, if you want to see a really nice page, go to Tennessee's democratic party page: http://www.tndp.org/
        •  Now that's nice (4.00 / 7)

          Professional, with a link to the SS calculator.

          Compare with the CA site, which has a couple  links to Bush's Bushisms.

          /sigh.

          (besides that, I think the CA is better than most)

          •  Yep, I like this one (none / 0)

            So far, I like California's the best. And I ended up reading a few Bushisms. The site was just snazzier. If that is a word.

            I'm voting for the Democrat! End of story!

            by BarnBabe on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:02:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  while you were there... (none / 0)

            did you check out the Bill Press link?  on his website, you would have found a column about the real Democratic problem.

            http://www.billpress.com/columns.html

            The DNC can only do so much and as has been stated in an earlier post, the chair does not set policy, a fact Polosi and Reid were only too quick to point out to Dean.  What the chair can do, and I have seen signs that Dean is doing, is help states develop infrastructure while he simultanously develops it at DNC.  He can't, although I'm certain he wants to, instill a backbone in the Congress... just as Barbara Boxer and the CBC can not carry the ball for everyone.

        •  That's good (none / 0)

          I like that they have a nice big banner link to the social security calculator on the front page.
        •  i do not know what county you come from (none / 0)

          but my county in TN does absolutly nada on things.

          I signed up to work with them and I am always on call and mostly working at my job, but would do anything I could do to help them out( and I am independent to boot).

          All that was done was asign me to go out to talk to ppl in my neighborhood to get out the vote.

          I do not have the time to do that with my job discription and I am not making excuses, I just couldnt get any help to help me out, when I could do it.

          I found these ppl to be mostly lazy.  

          This is a red county to boot and I was told not to piss any republicans for that we worked with them on things here.  At this point I decided to go on about my life and not worry about them.

          Such a shame too.

          I never got asked why I quit, but I have to be fair, I never told them either.

      •  No way. (none / 0)

        The Colorado site has ok navigability but looks pretty amateurish to me.

        And just try to get an RSS feed from it.  Really, try!  I'll wait...  I've emailed them several times, but no one in Denver seems to understand what I'm talking about, even the webmaster.  [sigh]

        Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

        by ubikkibu on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:43:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed. I actually thought Florida's was great (none / 0)

      Illinois does nothing for me but repel me.  Perhaps the poster got them reversed or something?

      Stephanie Dray
      of Jousting for Justice, a lefty blog with a Maryland tilt.

      by stephdray on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 01:11:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  FL's is still a bit amateurish (none / 0)

        but it's a vast improvement over even a few months ago. They've made an effort to make it more attractive and easier to navigate.

        They've also added a blog, but they don't keep up with it, unfortunately.

    •  sorry guys (none / 0)

      I think all of those sites are pretty much butt-ugly.  Too text-heavy, use of serif-fonts, wacky layout, ugly-ass photoshop blends, pixellated images...
    •  I'm in complete agreement. (3.85 / 20)

      What's more, this screed is just a bunch of counter-productive loudmouthed snark. Why is it that  every time a familiar poster raises their voice in print at DKos these days, the chorus of 'recommends' appears regardless of substance.

      "Fuck the DNC" because georgia10's subjective design meter says its site is ugly?

      For me the DNC site is quicker loading and much cleaner than the Illinois site. The Illinois site is filled with an ant colony of little black links that are about as inviting as a frathouse party mix assembled in an ashtray.

      And then this:

      Dean is out grassrootin' in conservative areas, like he's still on the 2004 campaign trail.  Wake up, Howard, wake up.  You're a national leader now, and need to take on a national role.

      What's not 'national' about traveling through the nation, talking to Americans about Democratic principles?

      What the fuck?

      'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

      by Maxwell on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 01:39:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In opposition: (4.00 / 4)

        I agree with georgia10's comments about getting more volunteers involved. We have plenty of people who would absolutely love to square off against those talking heads we see all over the pundit shows. If only the DNC would start tapping them to go out and become our spokespeople. If only. I still feel like we're the piggy-banks of the party and that's all. I don't feel involved or invited. I'm sure a lot of people share my sentiment.

        Let Howard Dean grassroots all he wants. If Dean doesn't want to be the spokesman for our party by putting himself all over the airwaves (which is exactly where he should be), let's get someone with some fire under their ass to start taking down these right-wing morons.

        For you to focus on her comments about the various Democratic websites (which, in my graphic design opinion, are lacking in the visual areas) shows that you have little to offer in the ways she describes that we could be fighting back. Go ahead and pick out the littlest parts of her argument. You will keep missing the forest for the trees. Indeed, what the fuck?

        PS.  Just in case your forgot, she forewarned you that it was going to be snarky right at the beginning. You could have chosen to stop reading then.

        •  Whatever. (3.85 / 20)

          Georgia10 has done great work on this site in the way of research into electoral fraud and fakes news production, but today she is standing in a virtual corner and screaming. This is a diary chock-full of cliches of the most puerile sort: "You're playing with big boys" "wake up" "get real" "crickets chirping" etc

          She dismisses Air America (only liberals listen to it), though it's grown from 8 stations to 53 in a year's time. What's her solution? Let's replace our loudmouthed libs (like the ones she omits: Rhodes, Franken, Schultz, Jon Stewart, Garafalo, etc) with new loudmouthed libs? Huh?

          She complains about liberals talking to liberals in liberal venues...and where does she do it? In a fucking liberal forum!

          And then she complains that Dean is disappearing into grassroots red territory...places where we can't see him. Yikes!!! Could he be doing the real groundwork that we're avoiding here in gaseous libland?

          I get daily emails from six separate grassroots groups in my area. Dean recently visited and spoke to our regional gressroots group, and Wes Clark is comimg to speak next week. I'm contacted at least four times a week by the DNC, more than ever before. They seem fairly on the ball to me.

          Georgia10 seems to be freaking out that she isn't seeing liberal Dems on CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, and Meet the Press. You know what the collective audience for those networks and shows are? Less than 2% of the American public.

          The reach of Air America alone trumps that by millions.

          Liberals talking to liberals is agood thing, when the left audience is growing by the day.

          Take a breath. Have patience. And let's get back to work.

          'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

          by Maxwell on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 02:19:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Voice (4.00 / 2)

            Regardless of how many people watch MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News, it's always important to have sane, compitent opposition to those viewpoints that are being espoused. When was the last time you could turn on CNN and not be disgusted by the absolute inanity that is spouted? The DNC and the Democrats need to have a voice. Someone that we can turn to and have them back us up. I understand how busy Dean is, getting the groundwork set up for the Democrats. Let's get him to find someone to speak for us on the television. Let's get him to find someone to speak for us in the newspapers.

            I get emails daily from various progressive/liberal groups, including the DNC. The main subject of those emails is to give money.

            georgia10 wasn't recommending replacing anyone, so I'm not sure where you got that idea. What she wants is someone putting up a fight for us, where we can see it. She wants to feel hopeful (as do a great many of us). Tangible evidence that someone is willing to stick his/her neck out for their liberal/progressive viewpoints.

            Liberal talking to liberals is great, but what about liberals talking to all those undecideds or people questioning the Republicans/neocons? Al Franken is doing great things with Air America, but we need to get a face on television, too. The Daily Show, IMO, is too short to be an effective liberal/progressive output (which is not its intended purpose anyway).

            Stop being hyper-critical of her writing style as she forewarned you what this diary was going to be. Her diary was aimed as a rant at us fellow liberals and she definitely has gotten her intended reaction. Where do you want her to post it, on Little Green Snotballs?

            •  Maybe you should read the diary again. (3.00 / 3)

              georgia10 wasn't recommending replacing anyone, so I'm not sure where you got that idea.

              cf "Speaking of image, my next bone of contention with the awol DNC.  You know, for once, I would love to turn on the TV and see gasp a Democrat on air."

              And then she goes on to admit that she has seen DNC reps on the air, but, oh, those guys sucked. So let's get new ones:

              I've mentioned this before, but the DNC needs a core group of blazing-heart liberals to launch an assault on the media.

              Then she admits, oh, MediaMatters is doing that, but only b/c the DNC isn't. Ad absurdio...

              Most statements of Dem incompetence or invisibility are followed up by a statement of qualification...oh, that's right, these folks are doing that, but...anyhow...they're insufficient, incompetent, broke, etc...

              I just don't see the value in this sort of iterative complaint.

              I get emails daily from various progressive/liberal groups, including the DNC. The main subject of those emails is to give money.

              I just looked at my email folders for the last three days. Of sixteen emails I received from progressive groups, six told me about upcoming meetings and events and nine wanted me to sign a petition or voice my opinion in some way. While five gave me the option of donating, only two were sent for the express purpose of solicting donations.

              I think the "treating Dems like an ATM" thing is itself a meme that has a grain of truth to it but isn't wholly accurate, but nevertheless it gets trotted out when convenient....like when folks are feeling frustrated, impatient and neglected.

              'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

              by Maxwell on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:17:21 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed... (3.60 / 10)

            Georgia is off the rails on this one.

            Dean helped by making a video appearance at our County Party fundraiser dinner this year, which with DNC and state party moneys are building an infrastructure for the 06 mid-terms. Deaniacs like Jenny Greenleaf have been newly elected to he DNC from our county party and have met with the chair on more than one occasion and is working with the state party (DPO), the county party (Multnomah Dems and other Portland area county parties, even across the state-line into Clark County WA) as well as the DNC... in concert to build the systems and infrastructure to plug grassroots activism into the local parties and be a permanent place where the rubber meets the road on a precinct level, connect PCPs to the county, state and national.

            We are working every day to build a fully integrated online infrastructure throughout the state of Oregon, which dove-tail with national, and work all the way to the ground in individual precincts.

            This is an off-the-rails rant with tired cliches that are not borne out by the facts. I respect georgia's efforts on many things here at dKos, I can only hope that this misguided rant is simply venting.

            •  Your Tone (4.00 / 3)

              The tone of your comments are infuriating. You guys speak down to her as if she was a child. She may be young, but she has a hell of a grasp on what needs to happen for our party and what is going on around the country.

              It's a rant, pure and simple, which may not be so off-the-rails because I, along with others, agree with it.

              Your dismissive tone is exactly what breaks the party. Instead of trying to be inclusive and help everyone know what is going on, you dismiss those people who want to see results.

              It's frustrating and not very constructive.

              Seeing as how georgia10 stated that this diary was going to be rant-like right off the bat, you should have known this.

              •  I wasn't speaking 'down' to her at all (4.00 / 2)

                I have no idea about her age, nor do I care. I know many old fools and young brilliant people.

                My 'tone' is simply stating that she is railing against things not borne out by the facts

                You can try and divine something about  'tone' all you want, but it too would be a misguided rant.

                Furthermore, I am not sure how praising and stating the respect I have had for georgia's efforts and contributions here on dKos is talking down to her at all.

              •  "You guys" (3.00 / 2)

                The tone of your comments are infuriating. You guys speak down to her as if she was a child. She may be young, but she has a hell of a grasp on what needs to happen for our party and what is going on around the country.

                Since you address 'us' in the plural, I assume you are addressing anyone criticizing this diary.

                I have no idea what Georgia10's age is, nor did I know her gender until recently. You're the one personalizing your defense of this poster. That seems a little patronizing of her, no? She seems more than capable of defending her own diary.

                Your dismissive tone is exactly what breaks the party. Instead of trying to be inclusive and help everyone know what is going on, you dismiss those people who want to see results.

                You have got to be kidding me. Georgia10's whole post is about how our party leaders are ineffective, incompetent, and not up to the task (can't play with the "big boys"). It's the most dismissive diary I've read here by a respected DKos diarist in weeks.

                Now, when a few of us disagree, embracing the efforts of our party leaders and leftist orgs, and suggesting they're making decent strides...now, we are the ones "breaking the party"? You're joking, right?

                Instead of trying to be inclusive and help everyone know what is going on...

                We are being inclusive precisely by taking Georgia10's comments seriously....regardless of age or gender or whatever else you seem to be suggesting here.  Many of the posters criticizing this diary have championed her posts elsewhere.

                'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

                by Maxwell on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:31:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Dismissive? (4.00 / 2)

                  "You have got to be kidding me. Georgia10's whole post is about how our party leaders are ineffective, incompetent, and not up to the task (can't play with the "big boys"). It's the most dismissive diary I've read here by a respected DKos diarist in weeks."

                  I think she was just trying to light a fire under their big league asses.  They need it, along with the fresh air that I hope Dean brings.  We can't be "just as good" as the Republicans in organizing, we've got to be better than that.  We're playing 20-year catch-up.

                  I hope to die laughing.

                  by altoid on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 05:45:41 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Don't have a clue about her age. (4.00 / 2)

                My gripe is the criticism of Howard Dean.  If anyone had listened to a single word he said in speeches and interviews leading up the chairmanship, they would know what he is doing.

                It is petty to think he could change what has been happening for years in just two months.

                I am very critical of certain elements of the party, and I do not apologize for that.  We fought hard to get someone in help make the party more people-friendly.  Seeing him attacked like that after less than two months is just too much.  

                He lives away from home most of the week, he travels constantly, he meets not only in rallies and dinners with the states but with state party leaders.  Most of April is filled with trips to Arkansas, Seattle, Vancouver, and several others yet unannounced.  Someone got mad at him at the DU site because he did not come to their county.  

                I still don't know her age.  No one ever worries about hurting the feelings of me, a grandmother, a senior citizen.  

                "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

                by floridagal on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 05:29:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  I appreciate your comments (4.00 / 5)

              But again, let me reiterate a couple things.

              (1) Is it shitty writing? Cliches? Yep. I never professed to be a Hemmingway here.

              (2) Why are so many taking this as an attack on Dean and the whole idea of grassroots?  That is not what I said.  Again, I said that the DNC has been working , it has made great strides.  But how many times have we patted ourselves on the back and then found that we come up short?

              The progress you cite in Oregon is fantastic. But that is sooo not the point of the diary.  My point is that the DNC is, in my opinion, floundering when it comes to marketing itself on a national scale.

              Again, I appreciate your comments.

              •  Well... any gander at my writing will quickly (none / 1)

                inform you or anyone else that my prose is not exactly destined for the library of congress or the book of the month club.

                I was commenting about the cliches of the DNC just taking the money and run, not the quality of the writing, which, even on your worst day is often better than mine at my best...

                I think that much of the problem and frustration you might be feeling is that we are trying to build our basic megaphone to our own base and establishment of our own 'alternate media' that hits on all levels.

                We already know that most of 'our' message is simply not going to be put out and trumpeted in the 'MSM' by and large at this stage, because that is bought and paid for by our opponents and their finical backers.

                Many of the models and systems we are working furiously to build will be that missing component that will allow bidirectional communication from the grassroots to the top, and vice-versa. Allowing the message crafting to be touched and framed at a lower state/county/district/precinct level.

                Think of it as a print-on-demand model with editable fields and custom (localized) text blocks.

                That is what we are trying to get in place in order to being pushing crafted message, that are not simply edicts and pronouncements form on high, but relevant, useful CUSTOMIZABLE communication pieces to key communicators (i.e. the grassroots volunteers and activists) to transition form mouse-pad to shoe-leather (which is where the Dean campaign failed somewhat, because it was an ad hoc on the fly effort built in less than 6 months, whereas a party can and should be positioned and be the permeant structure to build that missing conduit).

                In short (I know.. too late), I guess I am saying that we need to keep at it, and not let the lack of readily obvious 'immediate' progress be the yardstick by which you judge the DNC, the state, or local parties.

                I never knew until getting personally involved to just what extent the party(s) had atrophied. Hell in the 'Democratic stronghold' of the Multnomah County, we didn't even had training materials on what and how to canvas, be a precinct person, etc. leading into the 04 campaign cycle.

                We had to make it up and organize ourselves from scratch. We learned a lot this past election. What needs to happen, what needs to happen to connect with state and national, and we have moved many of the grassroots people up into the DNC less than 3 months ago.

                It will take time to successfully build that bridge and conduit between national and the state parties,, and between state and county parties down to the precinct people and the volunteers and a grass-roots activists.

                I know you are not railing against grassroots, but I would plea for some patience as we are in fact working very hard to bridge those canyons that have developed over years of neglect between national and state, and establish systems that allow coordinated message delivery and localized customization of messaging.

              •  Twice (none / 1)

                We have patted ourselves on the back and come up short twice.  Change the outcome of either 2000 or 2004 and virtually all of the anger would be nonexistent in this forum.  Change the outcome in one of those two years and most of the people frequenting this forum would be doing something else.  We are here because of those two outcomes - and because we don't want them to happen again.

                So, as someone said above quite eloquently, "Take a breath. Have patience. And let's get back to work."

                Focus your anger on the opposition.  Focus your efforts on making us stronger.  At least that's what this amateur thinks.

          •  Put me in the Air America ROCKS column. (none / 0)

            We need Air America cable television, imo.
            •  we sure need SOMETHING on cable TV (none / 0)

              We have GOT to have an unabashed liberal channel on TV.  Unabashed and unapologetic.

              I'm hoping some enterprising bloggers with a little technical know-how, some video equipment and a wicked sense of humor will provide Al Gore's new cable channel with a new generation of lefty commentators.

              Betcha anything those commentators will eventually get a higher percentage of viewers than Hannity, Limbaugh, et al.

              Some of the Kossacks here would be formidable commentators on the air IMO.  Funny and fiery.  

              ...Just planting a few seeds....

              •  Questions for georgia10 and Kos people: (none / 0)

                Hi all:

                1. Who here knows about GTV network?  If you do, why is that. If you don't, why do you think that is?

                2. Who here has contributed to or used DemSpeak.com? Do you know that it is phase 1 of a portal site for values inventory, message identification, message development, media-choreographed deployment strategies, and -----

                MEDIA TRAINING of Capitol Hill Legislators and liberal pundits ?

                If not, why don't you know that?

                3) Has anyone here read reports I have written and posted to DailyKos re meetings held in DC last month with DNC (and with DFA?)  If so, what are the issues and concerns I have blatantly stated after having met with Dean's right-hand man Tom McMahon, Exec Director of DNC?

                If you don't know, why not?

                4) Who here has heard of the development of a Citizen Thinktank, which will be funded with paid staff -- called ProgressiveStrategies ?

                If you haven't, why not?

                .
                .
                .
                Did you know that this thinktank works with initiatives like epluribus media?

                .
                .

                Here is my point: I don't expect that you HAVE heard of any of these. And that in itself is a real problem, and one we all better address.

                5) Did you know MoveOn and DFA won't work together?

                If not, why don't you know that?
                If so, what do you think about that fact?

                .
                .

                I actually agree with many of georgia10's criticisms and concerns expressed with what I think of as 100% VALID PISSED-OFFNESS. At the same time I challenge her and everyone else here:

                Stop being so insular.  The answers don't all converge at DailyKos. This is, in my opinion, the strongest, best, most inventive online progressive community, period. 2nd place is distant.  However, until there is more alignment, coalition-building, collaboration, and much better cross-channel communications betweenst and amongst hundreds of grassroots orgs re who's doing what, then we're all driving with the brakes on.

                rh+

                •  Great Points; Great Questions; (none / 0)

                  Now, please help move us forward with some constructive suugestions.

                  Put them in a diary and let's get it up on the recommended list ... or better yet front-paged.

                  dKos is a wonderful community, with many strengths, and an excellent platform for activism.
                  But it is a big world and there are many efforts  being made. The more cohesive and united we progrssive liberals can be, and the less fragmented, the greater the impact and the gretaer the potential for truly making a difference.

        •  And why do you think the corporate media (4.00 / 4)

          would ever  give the DNC Deaniacs beneficial media exposure, when what Dean is trying to do they view as being against their (Bushco-neocon) interests?

          Out of the goodness of corporate media's hearts??

          •  Yes, that is the crucial point that so many miss. (4.00 / 3)


            Which is puzzling to me... do folks really think it is just a 'coincidence' that the Sunday morning talk shows are so dominated by right-wing voices?  do folks really think that Democrats other than Joe Leiberman don't WANT to be on these shows?  Look at mediamatters.org  -- can you seriously say after looking at all that evidence that the bias is not intentional? that it is because Democrats aren't 'aggressive enough' about making their points or trying to make their voices heard?

            WHY does General Electric own NBC and co-own MSNBC?  To inform the public? To provide balance in the political discourse? Or to increase the profits of the parent corporation?

        •  "Piggy banks of the party" (4.00 / 2)

          Oh yeah...ain't that the truth. They just keep asking for money but what the f are they doing with it? A representative of the DNC(telemarketer reading a script) called the other night and asked for my financial support. I said sorry, I am no longer willing to dig into my pockets until the party reps start showing up. She said, " I can understand that ", then continues reading the script. I said "You tell Dr, Dean and company that they need to get to work and until they can prove they prove they are worthy of my check writing skills don't bother calling, emailing or writing me anymore."

          That may sound harsh to most of you but I am tired of paying someone to do a job that they are not doing. I'm with you on this one georgia10 especially when it comes to the need for great communicators on tv. Joe and Joe show is pathetic. Those two do not represent my veiws but a mere 2% of the time.

          Frodo failed....Bush has got the ring!

          by Alohaleezy on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 02:30:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Odd (4.00 / 5)

            So many folks said that they wouldn't give the DNC one cent unless Howard Dean was elected chair.

            Now some folks won't give the DNC a cent until Howard does more work.  Sounds like moving the goal posts to me.

            Who will stop this war of lies? Keith Olbermann May 23rd, 2007

            by Ed in Montana on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 02:41:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I've donated (4.00 / 2)

              and I'll keep donating to the DNC, despite my frustration.  And you know why?  Because I know the organization is necessary and that it can do so much for this nation.

              God, judging by the responses on this thread, you'd think people thought I wrote the DNC off entirely.  Hardly.  If I did, I certainly would not have taken the time to express my thoughts about how to improve it.

              •  You have a right to be frustrated (4.00 / 2)

                And a right to rant. It just seems a little premature when a reform democrat took over the DNC. It's like ranting against ourselves since we haven't made enough progress in a short period of time.

                Who will stop this war of lies? Keith Olbermann May 23rd, 2007

                by Ed in Montana on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:34:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I understand your frustration (none / 0)

                But in response to your criticism of Dean, I'm thinking of a survey done in the heat of the 2004 race that revealed that good old fashioned face time was significantly more effective than advertising. That's what Dean's doing: Going out on a tireless mission to talk to people. It can seem frustrating, just because it's not the kind of campaign that will get regular national exposure—especially not from the corporate media—but that doesn't mean it's ineffective. If the survey was right, it's the most effective thing he could be doing, especially in those areas where the Democrats are weak.

                As for the corporate media, I can't help noting that Fox is the only channel that knows how to do propaganda. Murdoch's a past master, and Ailes is an excellent lieutenant. But the more Fox-like CNN becomes, the more eyeballs they lose. Given this, I'm perfectly content to actually pull those remaining liberal voices out and leave the networks to scream their way into obvious irrelevance. They can get a clue, or they can wither and die. Even Clear Channel is getting wise to liberal programming. Actually, I think Fox clued into this early on: The Salon.com liberals, and many others, have given Fox props for years for their entertainment programming (e.g., the Simpsons). That's the sweetener that makes the "news" go down easier.

                No laws but Liberty. No king but Conscience.

                by oldjohnbrown on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 11:12:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Not so Odd (none / 0)

              Evidence isn't necessarily a moving goal post. It may be shortsighted of us, but sometimes we like to know that we're fighting back.

              Dean as DNC chair was paramount. No one else would do. Now, tell us what he's doing and what we can do for him (besides give more money).

            •  Some folks may have (4.00 / 2)

              said that, I am sure you are right. I just happen to NOT be one of the. Look, I live pretty much pay check to paycheck but since pre election times, I have been giving as much as possible every time I am asked whether it is/was Kerry, DNC, NOW, Boxer's pac, I do what I can. I am more than happy to contibute not just menetarily but GOTV canvassing, making phone calls etc.

              I will continue to contribute when my budget allows and the people asking (ie Boxer) are working to get the job done and stand up to the republicans at every turn.

              Frodo failed....Bush has got the ring!

              by Alohaleezy on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 03:32:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  That's too bad you said that. (none / 0)

            You see, to say Howard Dean is not working is just not true.  

            "I'm willing to say things that are not popular but ordinary people know are right." Howard Dean

            by floridagal on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 05:07:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Didn't the Deputy Chair (now Vice Chair) drop by? (none / 0)

            I do recall Susie Turnbull the now Vice Chair of the DNC dropping by a couple of times before asking for ideas from us.  (Also note that she didnt ask kossacks to do anything in particular to support her candidacy for vice chair or ask for money, just asked for ideas).  I spoke with her the other day when she came down to my school to speak and she said she would try to get back sometime soon.
      •  A few points (4.00 / 4)

        (1) The diary is not solely about site design; and it is admittedly subjective, but the point was that even its web design, the DNC is lacking unity or a unifying theme.  I'm from IL so I'm more familiar with it.  If you or someone else thinks the DNC site is beautifully designed like a Jimmy Choo shoe, then  that's your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it.  But to distort the diary so to make it solely about website design, when in reality it touches on much broader marketing principles, is unfair.

        (2) To you and everyone else on this site:  if you think my writing or my diary is shitty, don't recommended it!  In fact, I'd appreciate the honesty.  I could give a flying fuck about recommends (I appreciate them, but I'm not begging or whining for them, nor do I post tip jars for diaries like these).  

        (3) Dean is a national chair.  Yes, it is reaching out to the nation by going to small communities.  But notice my diary is asking about effectiveness.  What is more effective, travelling and getting a snippet of coverage in a local paper or at the very least combining that with a national presence?  

        Here's the deal.  Democrats now have no one to take a hint from.  No single leader.  Reid?  Yeah, he's doing well, but as recent critical votes show, it's hard for him to keep all his ducks in a row.  Pelosi? Please. She tries, but falls woefully short.  Kerry? Kerry and Reid can't agree on where to attack, let alone how. And at a time when the DNC should be projecting a single, coherent message, we get nothing.

        Counter-productive loudmouthed snark? Or an average Democrat, venting some frustration over the defening silence?

        •  Noise (3.60 / 10)

          But to distort the diary so to make it solely about website design, when in reality it touches on much broader marketing principles, is unfair.

          I'm in internet marketing and I don't see the broader marketing principles you're referring to. Had you presented a detailed critique of the first two months (it has only been two months since Dean's election after all) of the DNC's organizational strategy in action, and not merely ranted on and on about the Dem's ineffectiveness and facelessness, pehaps I'd take this diary more seriously.

          And isn't it distorting my post a bit to suggest it only mentions your design comment, when half of it mentions your criticism of Dean's presence in red states?

          But notice my diary is asking about effectiveness.  What is more effective, travelling and getting a snippet of coverage in a local paper or at the very least combining that with a national presence?

          Give me a break. Have you done any fundraising for a large institution? I mean seriously...a museum or a university or a large organization like the DNC?

          This is a four year campaign, and Dean is two months into it. You try to do more to develop a coordinated marketing strategy involving radio, tv, online and print...plus coordinate a fifty-state grasssroots network...plus schedule media interviews and appearances...plus organize fundraising...plus coordinate with state and federal party leaders...

          ...and do more in two month's time. Why don't you help rather than snort and spit at your allies?

          Democrats now have no one to take a hint from.  No single leader. Reid?  Yeah, he's doing well, but as recent critical votes show, it's hard for him to keep all his ducks in a row.  Pelosi? Please. She tries, but falls woefully short.

          You concede the strengths of those you cite as examples, but dismiss them anyway b/c they're currently in a minority position and can't change things at the moment. Um, yeah. So wait a minute, you're criticizing them for something they can't control? That's like telling someone who's fighting against cancer (and doing so with aplomb): "What? You still sick? Weak!"

          And at a time when the DNC should be projecting a single, coherent message, we get nothing.

          Nonsense. The unified Democratic opposition to "Social Security reform" and the "nuclear option" are two single, coherent positions that get trumpeted in the press daily.

          You want cliches? Choose effective ones. Like:

          Choose your battles.
          Say it, don't spray it.

          Counter-productive loudmouthed snark? Or an average Democrat, venting some frustration over the defening silence?

          Not both? I haven't heard any "deafening silence" in a long time. The noise is too persistent and it's very, very loud.

          How about clear, patient and succinct instead? Don't respond to a shout with a shout. Soon no one's listening at all.

          'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

          by Maxwell on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 02:47:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not sure... (none / 0)

            why you feel the need to make your points with rude insults and an air of superiority.

            The tenor of your comments renders any validity in them moot. Unproductive.

            •  Unbelievable. It's the tone police. (none / 0)

              I believe that you're the last person who should be talking about "rude insults", disturbing "tenor" or subjective perceptions of 'superior' tone.

              You embrace the "Rude Pundit". You've frequently attack posters dead on with whom you disagree, using strong language liberally, and have defended the practice. Some would, and have, said your tone is often supercilious. Moreover, you write an extensive harangue about abuse of troll ratings.

              But someone speaks his mind to one of your pals, and you drop the troll-bombs with ease?

              I responded directly to a diarist using strong language to criticize Dean, the DNC and others with equally direct and strong language. And you penalize my dissent in the most hypocritical fashion possible, given your previous comments on 'trolling'.

              In fact, you've given me my first "one" rating (three of them, no less) in a year and a half. Cheers. I can take it.

              Though I'm no troll, Maryscott. I've been a respectful member of this community since Kos launched the site in summer of 2002, when Tacitus, Billmon, Soto and others roamed the pre-Scoop plains. I comment selectively, but regularly.

              If you're gonna preach, at least keep the book open. Let me direct you to a couple of your passages:

              But I, for one, embrace the fact that you can write the diary or make the comment and I can read it and we can hash it out. Sure, we get emotional and start yelling and swearing -- but that speaks of our passion and our deep desire to see clearly and solve problems. I welcome this, and it often stuns me back to the Stone Age when I witness the flinging of troll ratings on people who are not trolls....

              I troll rate trolls. Period.

              Wow. Lakers-like reversal. Okay. Here's the score:

              Score one for the cult of personality, Maryscott. Score another for selective decorum.

              Score zero for dissent and candor.

              It's dittoheads and hall monitors all over again.

              'Fie upon the Congress' - Sen Bob Byrd

              by Maxwell on Wed Apr 06, 2005 at 01:11:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Amen (4.00 / 6)

        I usually agree whole-heartedly with georgia10 but on this one I can't see eye-to-eye (am I mixing metaphors?).  

        If the DNC were doing a full-on top-down mission, lots of national message, big honchos on TV, we'd all be bitching about how Dean paid lip service to the grassroots and then sold us out.  Now he's out doing what he said he would and investing in local parties (who he trusts to design their local websites to appeal to their local constituents -- do you think the same site will fly in Montana that works in Mississippi?) and letting Harry Reid et al. handle the national spokesperson job.  

        Are we saying that grassroots building was never a good idea in the first place?  Or just now that they're doing it, we don't like it any more and want national unity rather than local control?

        Please take this as a respectful disagreement with georgia10, who I do respect -- I had to double-check this wasn't written by an impostor (say, "goergia10 or "george10") that automatically hit the recommended list when people thought they saw that familiar handle.

        •  Thanks for the words (4.00 / 3)

          and the disagreement.  I must say, it's refreshing to get into a debate on dkos (no, not a dig that it's an echo chamber, just that I personally haven't had one in a while).

          Let me make this clear.  I am not saying to abandon grassroots.  Not at all!  But why does it have to be JUST Dean going around the nation?  I feel like he thinks it has to be, and I'm not so sure about that.  

          You can have both grassroots and a national presence at the same time.  Which, in fact, is what the RNC had leading up to the 2004 election. They had their men on the ground, AND they had a national presence reinforcing that message.

          •  it's what he does (4.00 / 3)

            What can I tell you -- we wanted Dean, we got Dean, we have to live with Dean!  What he did in his primary campaign, what he did with DFA, what he's doing with the DNC is to leave decision-making local.  

            How much can be done with local groups, BPOEs, Rotary Clubs, local pols on the local news -- if we spend a couple years organizing like that, can we get around the "inverted pyramid" problem Bradley pointed out?  Can we have a broad nationwide local base that will support interchangeable talking heads on the big national media?  

            I understand your anxiety - he seems to have the DNC focused SOLELY on local organizing at the cost of national speechifying.  Is that wise?

            My feeling is the DNC has (as you pointed out) pretty much sucked at handling national media for some years now, despite the best efforts by some really smart people.  It would be the summit of hubris for Dean to think he could come in and by virtue of sheer charisma turn that around.  So I like to think of this as a humble approach -- not trying to out-do what so many have failed at before, but rather trying a totally new (even revolutionary!) tack.

            But, yes, you may want to take some Dramamine to get through the next few years.  It is a risky strategy, and it may be a bumpy ride.

            •  I would have little problem (none / 1)

              with the current DNC strategy if the other national dems would step up!  But given that there is no unified Democratic theme coming from Congress (except on Social Security, thank god) my expectation was that the DNC, which represents Democrats nationally, would step in and fill the void.  Sadly, in my opinion, it has not.
              •  Check the front page (none / 0)

                Reid's been doing a good job keeping our message in the news. The DCCC and DSCC have both been good at making sure they get a word in on stories that relate to their mission.

                I think we could do a better job getting on the Sunday shows, but I'm not sure if that's our fualt or not.

                In short, we're getting a national message out. But it'll take time to get it to where we want it to be. Expecting everything to happen now ignores the fact this is an uphill battle, and always has been, and well be for the foreseeable future.

                •  Really?? What IS our message? (none / 0)

                  Reid's been doing a good job keeping our message in the news.

                  Hunh?

                  Did you know that the method the DNC is using to DEFINE "our message"is antithetical to the wise findings of the Right Reverend George Lakoff (little joke there)? That is it say: Lakoff couldn't have made a clearer case re the Democratic party method of defining "message" and what actually works.

                  And yet -- having done that now -- with hundreds of thousands of progressives now having been exposed to his different paradigm where message definition follows a very deep values inventory (and so on... ), do you know how the DNC is developing "the new Democratic party message?"

                  • Add one part Pelosi and Reid and the usual supsects called "Congressional Democratic Leaders" (never mind that most know next to nothing about the Lakoff paradigm other than two buzzwords: "values" and "framing")

                  • Stir in the 50 heads of the State Democratic party orgs

                  • Heat for 20 minutes then sprinkle in the opinions of the new 50-state Grassroots Liasons Dean & DNC are hiring

                  • Throw in reconstituted Labor "issues" (remember, their issues must be part of the message because that's the way it's been done for 50 years +)

                  • Be careful to keep all ingredients contained behind closed doors.

                  • Take care to avoid holding town hall meetings where CITIZENS can express their values and concerns

                  • When done, open the door and tell everybody the new & improved message.

                  .
                  .
                  Gimme a break. Reid, compared to most, is a god. But message? What's his message exactly. I'm going to challenge you to state it here.

                  Sorry, but i just find comments like that very underinformed... even though well meaning.

          •  I would say (none / 0)

            there is a lot more going on than you know

            and THAT is the problem!

            How do you judge the DNC?  What you hear the DNC is doing in the media or on the internet right?

            what if its being done and no one knows about it?

            Maybe that is a problem to hone in on?

            Googling Monkeys-R-US -2.75,-3.54 http://www.politicalcompass.org/

            by Dour on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 05:26:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's EXACTLY the problem (none / 1)

              I'm a known Democrat, and my name and address are in the hands of many Democratic institutions, including the DNC. But I have NO idea what the DNC's up to. The messages are not getting out to the public. If you live in one of the cities Dean has been to, and are high enough on the totem pole to be invited to a meeting, great. But that doesn't do anything for the MASSES, the people who actually have to vote in 2006/2008. Hell, not only has the DNC not put out any messages that I'm aware of, but they haven't even asked me for money. If you can't rally your BASE, dedicated "1s" who WILL vote for you, and will help your cause, how can you expect to welcome new Dems to the fold? Where is the activism? All the momentum we had going into November seems to have completely dried up.

              And I think that's what Georgia's ranting about... no one really gives that much of a damn about website design.

              Is it just me, or is it delusional in here? --Rob Wilco

              by PerfectStormer on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 08:46:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Momentum was wasted (none / 1)

                after the election.  Two nights afterwards on, November 4th, I met with a group of other Dems who were shocked, dismayed, but damn ready to fight.  
                MoveOn had a hell of a base built in the swing states and the framework used to build that could have been used in the other states.  It was all put away in the cupboard.
                I personally sent a proposal to several organizations, MoveOn included, within days after 11/2.  It addressed the "bubble" georgia refers to.    As I have commented many times here WE DO NOT realize how many people out there do not have the time or the access to the internet and independent, unfiltered news.
                We have got to get the real deal out here to everyone at the grassroots level and as wonderful as computers are, it isn't enough.  It is going to take a LOT of us to get off our asses and get the message out.
      •  National (4.00 / 2)

        What's not 'national' about traveling through the nation, talking to Americans about Democratic principles?

        This is a very good and interesting question and raises complex questions of national identity and the media.

        I'll take a stab at it.  I think this sort of grassroots contact isn't really national because it's not on television.  Is it authentic?  Yes.  Is it valuable?  Yes.  Is it a good long-term strategy?  Yes.  

        But is it national?  Not so much.  It's too piecemeal to be considered national.  The national effort that I think Georgia10 has in mind is a media game.  

        The two aren't mutually exclusive, of course, which I think is Georgia10's point.  While Dean talks to people head by head by head across this great land of ours, someone else (several someone elses) needs to be on the television, keeping it all together.  That way, when Dean arrives at the next town, the people will have been primed for his coming and his message so it won't seem so foreign.  

        Does this make sense?

        ...But Achilles, weeping, sat down at a distance far from his companions, beside the whitening waves, his eyes fixed upon the boundless sea.

        by weeping for brunnhilde on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 05:26:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Indeed, it does such much ass. (none / 1)

      I assumed the "professional" praise was a joke.  The site is useless.  The Florida and Colorado sites are positively brilliant in comparison, and the DNC still better.

      Really, if you don't go to the Illinois website to look up your local representative - by fucking district number, mind you - then what good is it?  At least the Florida and Colorado sites offer relatively recent news.  Colorado even has a few "read me and do this" messages.

      If the criticism was based on looks, well, that's pretty shallow.  If anyone really doesn't like the DNC website, send them a new stylesheet.  (That such a simple fix might change the entire look of the site is praiseworthy in itself.)

  •  Oh yeah, for the 1 millionth time (4.00 / 4)

    Dean said, i think correctly, that the DNC was not going to be involved in policy. that he was going to leave that up to congressional eaders.
    •  If the DNC doesn't get involved in policy (none / 1)

      than what are the national policies of the party?

      I'm still waiting to see that list.

      It clearly wasn't protecting Americans from phony "tort reform", or phony "bankruptcy reform."

      I think it's a mistake not to have more national unity in the Congressional delegation. The GOP has absolute discipline on certain votes. Anyone who opposes their core positions, they run a candidate against them in the GOP primary.

      Where is the discipline in the Democratic Party? Even the idea of social security privatization that we are so gleefully celebrating an apparent victory on was floated by Democrats in 1998.

      I'm pissed at the DNC because I think the party's statement of values has to be made clear and the party has to find a way to get some teamwork and discipline; some unity around core principles like protecting the poor and the middle class. There should have been unanimous Democratic votes in opposition to bankruptcy reform.

    •  .. and you actually believe that? (none / 0)

      Oh yeah, for the 1 millionth time (4.00 / 4)

      Dean said, i think correctly, that the DNC was not going to be involved in policy. that he was going to leave that up to congressional eaders.

      You underestimate Howard Dean when you actually seem to think you are adding clarity here.  Howard is learing the gamesmanship of politics... If he has any chance of opening up the windows and clearing out the DLC cobwebs and glue gumming up all the works, do you think he can achieve that by -- upfront, out the gate -- fighting with Pelosi (worthless: someone explain why we were all so exited when this alleged "SF Liberal" was given Gep's role?) and Reid when they tell him: "young man, you stick to infrastructure and leave the message to the experienced pros".

      Don't be fooled at all by that. Howard is WAY smarter than that. He just needs to go along to get along for the time being -- but you can bet your ass he's going to start influencing the Democratic Party message... It may be a year from now, but for the 1000th time, don't believe everything you hear or read...

  •  Ummm... (4.00 / 20)

    they ARE getting their shit together.

    In the short time since Dean took over I have stopped receiving constant requests for money and instead have been asked to write letters to the editor, been given info on DeLay's scandals, been informed about a rally supporting Social Security, and several other information or activism based emails.

    In my book they have come a LOOOOONG way since the time, less than half a year ago, when all they did was ask for money incessantly and ignore the grassroots.

    Man, I am sorry, but I completely disagree. I had given up on the DNC before (and still have on the DCCC and DSCC) but they have done what it takes to get me back. I have some cirticisms still (the Social Security rally in NYC was poorly organized and I am wondering where they are in the OH-2 special election) but having cirticisms is different than condemning them. They have initiated letter writing campaigns to the media more than once and they have focused on DeLay. It is a fucking good start. If they don't continue improving, well, then maybe I will have issue with them. But it is a BIG change in a short period of time.

    By all means send them your criticism, but if you want to be heard, maybe you can frame it more constructively and maybe you need to recognize the very real reform that has already happened.

    Now, of course, it will take some elections to show how effective their changes are, but for now, good for them!

    •  They've been working (3.55 / 9)

      As I mentioned.  And you cite some positive examples.  I am more disappointed in the media/outreach aspect so far.  They're working their asses off, yeah, but effectively?  I don't know.  
      •  The fights right now are legislative (4.00 / 5)

        especially in the Senate.

        Dean's out there laying groundwork for the "50 state" strategy, which is IMHO the single most vital issue for the survival and growth of the Democratic Party.

        Bush's approval is dropping. He's losing on Social Security. The noose is tightening (at least politically) around DeLay. Frist is getting heat, not just from the Reid and the unified Democratic Senate, but also from corporate America, who fear the nuclear winter the Dems have promised if Frist pursues the nuclear option.

        The whole Schiavo thing -- Dems didn;t impede it, but they didn't grandstand on it either, which made it a GOP pogrom and it's blowing up in the GOP's collective faces.

        There are some fights I wish the Dems had fought that they ducked, but they appear to be winning the battles they've chosen since the 2004 elections.

        God bless America. God bless our troops.
        God damn George Bush to the fires of eternal damnation.

        by Bill Rehm on Tue Apr 05, 2005 at 12:48:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  50 state strategy