Kerry 68, Bush 25

The Repugnicans are up in arms about this University of Connecticut survey showing that journalists went for John Kerry 68-25 over Bush last November.

Joe Scarborough and the rest of the Kool-Aid Brigade need to know that there's a fairly reasonable explanation for this. . .

Journalists are, for the most part, educated professionals for whom facts actually matter and who call the reality-based world home.

Educated people know that Saddam Hussein didn't attack this country on 9/11. Educated people know that this President lied the nation into war. Educated people know that we haven't found WMD in Iraq. Educated people believe in Evolution and are pretty sure dinosaurs once roamed the Earth. Educated people know the world isn't flat. And educated people know we didn't fake the Apollo moon landings.

Sadly, I don't think Bush Republicans share many of these views. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Here are the 10 least-educated states in America (2003), according to the United States Census Bureau (% of people 25 years and over who have completed a Bachelor's Degree):

1. West Virginia (17.0)
   
2. Kentucky (18.6)
   
3. Mississippi (18.7)
   
4. Arkansas (19.0)
   
5. Nevada (19.5)
   
6. Indiana (21.0)
   
7. Alabama (21.2)
   
8. Louisiana (21.3)
   
9. Tennessee (21.5)
   
10. Oklahoma (21.9)

Take a wild guess which Presidential candidate won all 10.

For those who think I'm making up this data, you can find it on one of GWB's Internets at http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Products/Ranking/2003/R02T040.htm

The truth may be really uncomfortable for some, but it's still the truth.

•  Obviously

  You don't need a UConn study to tell you that the majority of the highly educated Americans are going to be more liberal-leaning, it's just common sense.  If newspapers hired more conservative journalists, the newspapers probably wouldn't be as good.

  by KevinL75 on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:00:51 PM PDT

  •  I used to have this same argument

    with my very conservative Dad all the time.

    He'd complain that the intellectual elite, all the grad school professors, plus most of the big newspapers and network news people were all liberal.

    I'd say "gee, Dad, are you suggesting that people whose job it is to learn and discover and investigate, people who earn their living by knowing more than everybody else in the room, they all agree that you're wrong? Maybe that's a clue."

    He'd snort at me and tell me to respect my elders. I took that as a win.

    by wendynyc on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:16:32 PM PDT

•  WTF: kansas?

  KS ranks 15th on that list with 28.7%. Where are they keeping all the educated people?

  by internik on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:03:03 PM PDT

  •  In pods

    awaiting the arrival of their mother ship to get them the fuck out of there.

    by decembersue on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:07:35 PM PDT

    •  No they are all in Lawrence no? n/t

      by slick riddles on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:10:26 PM PDT

  •  That surprised me, too

    My college roommate lives around Kansas City and works in biochem. From what I understand, KC and the surrounding areas are very high-tech and full of educated people.

    I joked with him on the phone the other day about the Evolution "trial" in Topeka. He knows I'm living in Indiana and even we're making fun of Kansas these days.

    I guess I shouldn't joke, since half of my own state thinks gangs of homosexual bandits are coming to steal their children and turn them into Nathan Lane.

    by IndyScott on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:08:29 PM PDT

    •  Off topic, but what do you think...

      ...of the daylight savings time battle in Indiana?  I moved away over ten years ago, and I absolutely HATE changing the clock twice a year.  I have never gotten used to it.  Even though I no longer live there, I kind of wish they had resisted doing this.  I cannot even explain it, but I guess it is that silly pride of doing something differently.

      by Mote Dai on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:20:02 PM PDT

    •  They all stay on the Missouri side

      Which is why KC MO is 4 times bigger than KC KS...:-)

      by Revel on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:35:31 PM PDT

    •  We are...

      Keep them distracted a bit longer, ok?

      by Revel on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:37:26 PM PDT

    •  My wife's theory

      She grew up in Kansas against her will (she even attended K State for a year) and she was thinking that a lot of those degrees are agriculture and husbandry related. Students aren't really challenged to expand their mind because they've been working in those fields all their lives.

      by internik on Tue May 17, 2005 at 05:30:54 AM PDT

•  The irony

  Ironically, Kerry carried the high school drop-out vote. They split the HS diploma only vote. Bush carried those with associates and bachelors degrees and Kerry ran away with the votes of those with graduate degrees.

  by pHunbalanced on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:04:10 PM PDT

  •  Right

    It's a U-shaped curve.

    by davybaby on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:41:17 PM PDT

    •  Oh Confucious

      I think Confucious passes on a true gem of wisdom to explain this effect: imperfect knowledge is worse than no knowledge at all.  All these wannabe elites with bachelor's degrees who think that they can have expert opinions on all matters are overwhelmingly Republican.  The rest of us know full well when our understanding of a matter is probably not as comprehensive as someone else's.  But these godawful Republicans have this arrogance about them that denigrates the notion of expertise.  Just look to the Schiavo affair - Congressmen and women were making medical decisions on the floor of the House!

      Totally ridiculous - that broad swath of mediocrity and mendacity is ruining our country.  

      by salsa0000 on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:04:40 PM PDT

  •  hmmmmm

    I droped out and I read Kos, daily.
    Not all dropouts are uneducated. There is a lot to be said for ones motivation.  

    by evaguitar on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:15:20 PM PDT

•  If you filter out generalized business degrees

  I wonder how the BA vote splits out...

  by decembersue on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:08:47 PM PDT

  •  "Generalized"

    that's a polite way of saying what Paul Fussell put more bluntly in his classic "Bad, or the Dumbing of America," in 1991:

    A new subject of study was devised, and it was called "business."

    snip

    The goal was to widen access to "educational opportunity," and in pursuit of this end, verbal inflation was called on to promote to university status numerous normal schools and teachers colleges, business academies, secretarial institutes, provincial theological seminaries and trade schools.

    Thes are the places that now award "college degrees" to the majority of young Americans, but the degrees measure not the development of intellect, but the rude command of techniques likely to fit the recipients uncritically into ready-made niches of American middle-class society.

    snip

    And even if you've "majored" in business, chances are you'll be too illiterate to be very good even at that.

    Fussell is not just any old elitist misanthrope -- he's a combat infantry veteran, author of the widely acclaimed war/literary study "The Great War and Modern Memory," and a longtime English professor at the University of Pennsylvania.

    He's such a keen bullshit detector, I wonder where he's been for the last four years.

    by devtob on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:52:52 PM PDT

    •  Fussell

      I saw him at UPenn at the English department end-of-year party this year.  I don't know him, but I have friends who do.  I think he's enjoying a well-earned retirement.

      by FlipYrWhig on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:58:30 PM PDT

    •  "teachers colleges"?

      Many great schools are former "teachers colleges". That does seem elitest to me.

      The fact is, that many schools with mindless business degrees also have great liberal arts and science depts. And sometimes even the economics dept isn't bad. But I'll be honest, I've not seen a lot of good come out of business depts.

      by decembersue on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:38:18 PM PDT

•  From the recent Pew Study

  

  Enterprisers are the ideological polar opposites of Liberals in this study. Income is similar.

  by Coldblue Steele on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:13:59 PM PDT

  •  "Enterprisers"...?

    What fictional 'ideological' divide is that?

    Mitch Gore

    Wanna win in '08...?

    Put your money where your mouth is.

    by Lestatdelc on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:52:35 PM PDT

    •  This is what Pew says

      BASIC DESCRIPTION: As in 1994 and 1999, this extremely partisan Republican group's politics are driven by a belief in the free enterprise system and social values that reflect a conservative agenda. Enterprisers are also the strongest backers of an assertive foreign policy, which includes nearly unanimous support for the war in Iraq and strong support for such anti-terrorism efforts as the Patriot Act.

      DEFINING VALUES: Assertive on foreign policy and patriotic; anti-regulation and pro-business; very little support for government help to the poor; strong belief that individuals are responsible for their own well being. Conservative on social issues such as gay marriage, but not much more religious than the nation as a whole. Very satisfied with personal financial situation.

      by Coldblue Steele on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:59:17 PM PDT

      •  Can we call them Spoiled Pricks instead?

        'cause I think that's more descriptive.

        Market research is fascinating. And creepy. I did a short internship with an advertiser in Portland, OR, and he showed me a market research survey they'd bought, describing the specific kind of overweight beer-drinking pro-military-but-never-served consumer they hoped to market to in a specific neighborhood of Tacoma.

        Honestly, maybe Dems ought to pay for some of that market research and then make it publicly available, so everyone can know about the sex-deprived car-obsessed overpaid guys who can never hold their liquor who live neighborhood X in Red State Y.

        by decembersue on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:45:36 PM PDT

    •  Grover Norquist groupies, basically

      They combine "free market" economics with an aggressive, interventionist foreign policy:

      Profiles of the Typology Groups

      I put "free market" in quotes because most of them wouldn't recognize a truly free market if it walked up to them and bit them on the ass.  (Free hint:  In a truly free market, it's actually necessary to have some environmental regulations, even at the cost of jobs, because free markets are supposed to be voluntary.  Not many people voluntarily choose to breathe smoggy air or drink filthy water...)

      The funniest thing, though, is they are not more wealthy than people who test as "Liberal" in this typology.  41% of "Enterprisers" had household income of $75K or more; 41% of "Liberals" had household incomes of $75K or more.  

      by ColoRambler on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:16:12 PM PDT

      •  Oh, one other thing

        Do take the typology with a couple hunks of salt. Their format is to take 2 "opposed" propositions and ask which one you agree with most strongly.   The trouble is, a lot of the propositions aren't strict opposites, making it possible to agree (or disagree) at least weakly with both at the same time. The approach at Political Compass seems a little more intelligent overall:  there you're asked if you agree or disagree with single, specific propositions.

        by ColoRambler on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:28:43 PM PDT

•  Disappointed Hoosier...#6?!?

  I grew up in Indiana and was educated by the public school system (also went to a small state unversity), and I thought I got an amazing education.  Of course, I saw education as the way out of my slowly deteriorating hometown.  It is a different world--over 25% of my graduating class of 150 went into the military.  

  I love the state, but I was forced to leave the state because of my poor basketball skills...

  by Mote Dai on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:16:31 PM PDT

  •  Maybe it's more rural-urban. . .

    . . . rather than red-blue. I grew up in a small town in southern Illinois that truly embodied the "What's The Matter With Kansas" model. I was lucky enough to get a great college education in Indiana. You're right that the military is a very popular option in these small communities.

    Having lived in a metro area ever since college, I feel lucky to have experienced both perspectives.

    When I think back to my rural high school, it's amazing how infrequently I was engaged intellectually. I was blessed to have wonderful parents (both teachers) who convinced me from an early age that the world had much to offer.

    Indiana currently has a GOP Governor (Mitch Daniels) with GOP control of the House and Senate. Tough sledding for a liberal in this state.

    by IndyScott on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:27:35 PM PDT

    •  Lt. Gov. Becky Skillman

      Becky is an old friend of my family, and I'm actually distantly related to her - she attends the church where I grew up and where my brother preaches. I may get grief for this, but some things transcend politics - had I lived in Indiana during last year's election, I would have left the gubernatorial line blank. Much as I loathe My (And By My I Mean Karl Rove's) Man Mitch, Becky has always been more than supportive of my own political career, knowing full well I disagreed with her on every issue.

      Indiana is not unlike Kansas - those Republicans who have been in state government since dirt (like Becky and State Sen. Robert Garton) seem to be old-line GOPers, while those who came in within the past 10 years are overwhelmingly bomb-throwers.

      WF

      by Wes F on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:12:20 PM PDT

  •  You're funny, Mote Dai!

    -5.88, -6.82

    by Debby on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:28:51 PM PDT

    •  Funny, eh?

      I guess that makes three of us that share that opinion:  you, my mom, and me!

      by Mote Dai on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:57:25 PM PDT

  •  Ha.

    Ironically, for a fat kid with no other athletic talent, there were times I had a sweet three-point shot. But since it wasn't consistent, I ended up in band. I also left Indiana at the first available opportunity.

    Now I'm moving to Massachusetts. Life just keeps getting better.

    WF

    by Wes F on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:29:32 PM PDT

    •  Twin brothers?

      I was just like you!  Somewhat heavy with a mean three point shot...well, heavy and I was aware of the three point shot...

      I just couldn't hit a lay-up to save my life.  I just could never time it right.  Just like every other Hoosier, I do have a decent free-throw percentage.

      I escaped to Massachusetts as well.  Where are you moving to?  I have lived in Boston for ten years (Brookline actually) and I love it.  I will probably moving to Washington DC this fall, and to be honest, I think I will miss Boston.

      by Mote Dai on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:40:01 PM PDT

      •  North Adams

        Just took a job as Assistant Professor of Music at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts.

        So I'll be out in the Berkshires.

        WF

        by Wes F on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:47:08 PM PDT

        •  Beautiful place

          
          Joke comment first:
          Teaching at some Liberal school, eh?  Only in Taxachusetts would they purposely put the word "liberal" in the names of schools.

          It is beautiful out there, so I hope you get the chance to enjoy it.

          by Mote Dai on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:54:53 PM PDT

          •  Funny comment

            When I posted the news about the gig on my blog, someone commented:

            Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts - add "anti-" in front of each of those words and you have half the Republican platform.

            I can't help but agree.

            WF

            by Wes F on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:08:14 PM PDT

        •  Heh.

          I'm also a music professor, at Bates College in Maine.  Welcome to our neck of the woods.

          What will you be teaching in your new position?

          by Dale on Mon May 16, 2005 at 11:39:19 PM PDT

          •  Not sure of exact classes yet.

            I suspect I'll do theory (my Ph.D., done in about one year, is in theory), a couple of interdisciplinary courses (it's a small school with a BA degree), and maybe an ensemble or two.

            WF

            by Wes F on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:08:40 AM PDT

•  Of course, it's coastal-liberal-Jewish elitist

  to bring up the fact that most smart voters supported Kerry and most stupid voters supported Bush.

  But how do the wingnut media whores make this out to be a good thing for Bush?

  by devtob on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:26:51 PM PDT

•  I gotta bust your chops on one thing

  While you don't outright say it, you equate a four-year degree with having the smarts to recognize the Bush bullshit.  I personally have only a two-year degree, but I have met many people in my life (some with far less education than I have) who are quite well endowed with the common sense and the smarts needed to recognize lies.  I don't think we ever do ourselves a favor by pointing out how we are different from they based on geography or formal education.

  The older I get, the more I believe that a doctor or lawyer or college professor isn't really any smarter that a carpenter or bus driver or stay-at-home parent.  There are smart and stupid examples in all of these groups.  

  by CalbraithRodgers on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:30:02 PM PDT

  •  You Are Correct

    This is not a perfect metric by any means. Bill Gates didn't graduate from college. And I've known college graduates who can't even type (I'm not kidding!). There are obviously exceptions on both ends of the spectrum, so I certainly acknowledge that this analysis isn't flawless.

    But in terms of measuring intelligence by state, this was the only thing that really jumped out at me in terms of available data.

    You have been heard, loud and clear.

    by IndyScott on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:36:09 PM PDT

    •  Thanks for considering my thoughts

      During the Great Election Fraud Debates here there was alot of blue state red state comparing that really got people worked up.  It definitely sensitized me to the fact that similarities are more useful than differences.

      It's too bad the census folks can't track common sense somehow.  :-)

      by CalbraithRodgers on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:13:08 PM PDT

      •  Arrgghhh

        I just realized my last sentence can be misconstrued.  My comment about census folks and common sense is related to your saying you could only find the census data on higher education to use as a metric -- it was not a comment on your common sense.

        by CalbraithRodgers on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:30:25 PM PDT

•  In the 1956 election

  a supporter of Adlai Stevenson told the candidate:

  "Govenor, you have the support of every thinking American."

  Stevenson replied:

  "That's not enough, I need a majority."

  It has always been so and some might call this elitist thinking. We are supposed to be the representatives of the lower classes. Why is it that they so despise us??

  by daisycolorado on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:32:28 PM PDT

  •  because you don't measure the lower class

    I get pretty upset at diaries like this that promote the great backlash view of the world.  The fact is that people who make less than 50k a year voted for Kerry by something like 55-41.  People who make more than 100k a year voted for Bush by an even larger margin.

    If we want to talk economic issues, then let's talk about the country in terms of economic class, not how much education people have had.  The point raised is probably true - that smarter people voted for Kerry.  But we should be more emphatic in pointing out that the working people who make up the backbone of our country also voted for Kerry.

    by hotshotxi on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:46:08 PM PDT

  •  The lower classes...

    "It has always been so and some might call this elitist thinking. We are supposed to be the representatives of the lower classes. Why is it that they so despise us??"
    ____

    Because they feel looked down upon by the elites, and they don't appreciate it.  

    A lot of "the lower classes" don't have the same opportunities as the elites.  If we pat ourselves on the back for being "elite", we will also continue to cry when we lose.
    

    by v2aggie2 on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:10:35 PM PDT

•  Reminds me of...

  a complaint in my local Republican rag about "too many letters to the editor from liberals." Gee, ya think the reason that there are a disproportionate number of letters from liberals is because they are the ones who are more literate? Despite this paper's pro-Bush slant, the ones actually READING the newspaper have different political views.

  by Cat Nerd on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:33:52 PM PDT

•  flawed diary - why estimate with states?

  According to this page:
  http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

  You can see the ACTUAL voter breakdown:
  No College Degree: 53-47 Bush
  College Degree: 49-49 Even

  To suggest that college grads favored Bush over Kerry in 2004 would be incorrect.
  

  by Ray in TX on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:40:58 PM PDT

  •  one more comment...

    Let's not get too smug about our supposed education levels.

    Both political extremes believe that the other extreme is irrational and less intelligent. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that way or you will ALWAYS underestimate your political rivals.

    by Ray in TX on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:42:51 PM PDT

  •  Those numbers are cooked

    Would those be the same exit polls that didn't correctly predict the winner of the contest?

    I don't buy any of those demographics.

    by txredd on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:48:37 PM PDT

    •  No, these are the 'fixed' exit polls

      that CNN changed

      by Michiganliberal on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:57:08 PM PDT

    •  No, these are the 'fixed' exit polls

      that CNN changed

      by Michiganliberal on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:57:29 PM PDT

      •  Fixed like repaired?

        Or fixed like "the fix is in"?

        I want the raw data and the methodology or it's just a bunch of make-believe information.

        by txredd on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:02:36 PM PDT

    •  LOL

      "I don't like the data so it must be faked."

      Are you are creationist?

      by Ray in TX on Tue May 17, 2005 at 06:37:35 AM PDT

  •  Yeah.

    The low college degrees in those states are most likely because they're the poorest states not because their populations are inherently dumb.

    by tlaura on Mon May 16, 2005 at 11:06:29 PM PDT

•  Remember Also that Gandhiji Said

  "A thing I fear greatly is the hardness of heart of the educated."

  (Er, ol' Tinfoil Hat has a B.A., a J.D., plus one year of graduate study in French literature at NYU).

  by proudtinfoilhat on Mon May 16, 2005 at 08:45:44 PM PDT

•  And the people who OWN the media

  who did they vote for?  Let me guess.

  And who runs things where you work, the peons or the owners? And why should we assume journalists completely decide content and owners don't?  

  RWCM twit pundits like Scarborough suck.

  by DemDachshund on Mon May 16, 2005 at 09:40:08 PM PDT

•  Reminds me of the first debate

  There was a breakdown by state about how long people watched, who they thought won, etc. In a big bunch of red states, they thought Bush won, but they also watched for the shortest amount of time.

  Tell me again what those states do to fuel our economy?

  by DrReason on Mon May 16, 2005 at 10:52:49 PM PDT