Daily Kos

Reid: Nuclear Option Process Starts Tomorrow

by JoelK in AZ

Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:04:23 PM PDT

Reid says Frist has informed him that he (Frist) will bring 2 of the controversial judges nominations to the floor of the senate tomorrow. This begins the debate process that is expected to culminate in the exercise of the nuclear option sometime next week. Does Frist have the votes? Would he initiate this process risking embarrassment?

Reid's email below.

Dear Friend,

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist has informed me that tomorrow he will bring the nominations of Priscilla Owen and Janice Rogers Brown to the floor of the United States Senate. The Senate has already rejected both of these judges and now Bill Frist is threatening to impose the "Nuclear Option", effectively ending free speech in the Senate, breaking the rules to end Democrats right to filibuster, in order to pass these extreme nominees.

Next week I need all of you on the Democrats.gov email list to stand with us. I want to use your voice as part of this debate. Tell me and in fact the American people why this debate is important to you and I will use some of your statements on the floor.

http://democrats.senate.gov/filibuster-form.cfm

George Bush has gotten more than 95% of his judicial nominations confirmed - but it isn't enough. The "Nuclear Option" is just another example of Republicans striving for absolute power in Washington, DC. They don't have the votes to pass these nominees so they abuse power and break the rules to get their way. If they win, it spells the end of the checks and balances the founding fathers envisioned in our constitution.

http://democrats.senate.gov/filibuster-form.cfm

And if that wasn't enough, the judges George Bush has chosen to serve on the federal courts are simply unacceptable because of their actions and judicial temperaments. Janice Rogers Brown has called Social Security a form of "cannibalism" and has consistently used her position to advocate for an extreme ideological agenda. In one opinion she argued that racial slurs are protected by the first amendment, even when they rise to the level of illegal race discrimination.

Priscilla Owen is no better. Former Texas Supreme Court Justice Alberto Gonzales - who is now Attorney General- served with Owen and has called her opinions "an unconscionable act of judicial activism." She has even sought to twist the meaning of an important state civil rights law making it much harder for employees to prove that their rights were violated.

This is the most important fight of my political life but working together we can defeat the forces that wish abuse power to destroy freedom of speech in the United States Senate

Lend your voice and stand with me on the floor this week. There has never been a more important time.

http://democrats.senate.gov/filibuster-form.cfm

Thank you,

Senator Harry Reid

I assume this means Frist has the votes.  This stinks. I'm of the camp that this isn't about appeals court judges but really about supreme court nominees. This might just guarantee Scalia as the next chief justice.

Update: So has Hunter et al point out, it looks as though the process begins tomorrow as debate over the judges in question will begin, but the actual nuclear bomb, so to speak, will not occur until sometime next week. Thanks for the clarification.

Tags: (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 137 comments

  •  Not clear Frist has the votes (4.00 / 2)

    First of all, CNN is claiming the nukes are off until next week.

    In any case, though, this is just the timing Frist promised: to launch the nukes after the highway bill passes.

    This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

    by emptywheel on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:04:44 PM PDT

    •  yeah it seems like its always "tomorrow" (4.00 / 2)

      Not sure what to think.

      It's a neighborly day in this beautywood. Relentless!

      by ablington on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:21:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nuclear option does not start tomorrow (4.00 / 3)

        Debate on the judicial nominees starts tomorrow.

        There is no way Frist will pull the nuclear option tomorrow, because it will look like he didn't give the Dems a day's worth of debate (while usually, the get a couple dozen hours of debate).

        So yes, debate begins tomorrow, but as CNN reported (see below) the nuclear option won't be launched until next week, when Frist can say "all debate has been exhausted, we've debated for four days."

        by georgia10 on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:46:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Frist, the Musical (4.00 / 14)

        The nukes'll come out
        Tomorrow
        Bet your bottom dollar
        That tomorrow
        There'll be nukes!

        Just thinkin' about
        Tomorrow
        Clears away the cobwebs,
        And the sorrow
        'Til there's nukes!

        When I'm short a few votes
        My quotes
        Are foolish,
        I just stick out my chin
        And grin,
        And say,
        Oh!

        The nukes'll come out
        Tomorrow
        So ya gotta hang on
        'Til tomorrow
        Come what may
        Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
        We'll vote on Tomorrow!
        It's always
        A day
        A way!

        This nicely summarizes what's wrong with American political life today. (Source)

        by GreenSooner on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:47:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A 4 For You (none / 0)

          As someone who's done Annie (the musical, get yer mind out of the gutter) too many times, you get a 4 for that!  Did I just reveal my identity?

          Stop rewarding bad behavior.

          by FLDemJax on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:57:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Sing along with them! (none / 1)

          http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050517/capt.wcap10405172005.filibuster_fight_wcap104. jpg

          Visit RemoveRepublicans.com and follow every 2006 Senate race.

          by AnthonySF on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:30:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Frist jumps on the senate poduim (none / 0)

          and invokes the nuclear doomsday option to the background of:

          We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when,
          but I know we'll meet again some sunny day!
          Keep smiling through, just like you always do,
          'till the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away!
          So, will you please say hello to the folks that I know?
          Tell them I won't be long!
          They'll be happy to know that as you saw me go,
          I was singin' this song:
          We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when,
          but I know we'll meet again some sunny day!
          So, will you please say hello to the folks that I know?
          Tell them I won't be long!
          They'll be happy to know that as you saw me go . . .
          I was singin' this song:
          We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when,
          but I know we'll meet again some sunny day!
          We'll meet again, we'll meet again . . .

          "...what Washington means by bipartisanship is mainly that everyone should come together to give conservatives what they want." --- Paul Krugman

          by puppet10 on Tue May 17, 2005 at 04:42:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Frist may have to go forward *without* the votes (none / 0)

      'Cause a) this whole thing is mess is gut-punching the GOP in the polls, and b) it looks like it will get worse and worse for the GOP the longer this continues, and c) if Frist backs off the nominees entirely, the only group that's solidly supporting him, the right-wing Christian fundies, will have his liver. With a plate of favre beans and a glass of dry white wine.

      At this point, Frist may not have much choice but lose, and say he went down swingin'. That way, the tool can retain his fantasies of being a viable 2008 Presidential candidate...

      "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

      by jbeach on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:31:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Frist HAS to do it (4.00 / 4)

    Maybe he's afraid his vote count will go down if he waits any longer. You can't assume that this announcement means Frist will win.

    by BoringDem on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:07:44 PM PDT

    •  Maybe he's afraid of the compromise (4.00 / 3)

      The word all day has been that they were getting closer, or had a compromise in hand.

      If Frist's presidential hopes ride on the nuclear option, maybe a compromise is worse than failure.

      I'm not afraid of terrorists anymore. I'm afraid of my government.

      by supergreen on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:15:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i thought (none / 0)

        i thought yesterday Reid announced that he had stopped any further negotiation?  (of course it could just be public posturing ... again reminding people he was trying but those pesky republicans won't come to the table)

        by JoelK in AZ on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:17:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Stuff like this has been running all day (none / 1)

          http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/17/filibuster.fight/index.html

          I'm not afraid of terrorists anymore. I'm afraid of my government.

          by supergreen on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:21:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The "compromise" worries me (4.00 / 6)

            It's like making treaties in the game Risk--you know you're just postponing the time they'll stab you in the back.

            Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

            by ubikkibu on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:36:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree. (4.00 / 3)

              I said in another post that we'll give them their five appointees, and then the first time we filibuster someone, the nuclear option will be back on the table.  You can't trust Republicans.

              I'm not afraid of terrorists anymore. I'm afraid of my government.

              by supergreen on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:38:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I've thought more about this (none / 0)

                and although I distrust the compromise they're mumbling about, I'd rather see it happen than a showdown.  Even if the theocrats just break their promise later, which of course they will.

                Why?  Because making the compromise happen shows that Democrats can work productively with their opponents, even when the GOP "leadership" has malfunctioned completely.  And because when the GOP does break their word on the compromise, they offend those on their own side of the aisle who understood why the "nuclear option" is wrong and were willing to work toward a solution, half-assed as it might be.  And the "he said, she said" stories that will ensue when the GOP does violate the agreement probably will hurt them--the polls already indicate that those who are aware of this consider Democrats' position on the filibuster the correct one.

                Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

                by ubikkibu on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:14:15 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  I agree (none / 1)

              What in the world would give a Democrat the idea that he could actually trust what these people say or do?

              The Republican leadership is not trustworthhy. They have proven that again and again. They don't respect The Constitution what makes these guys think they believe in truth, Mom, and apple pie???

              Full Disclosure: I am Chair of the Darius Shahinfar for Congress Campaign Committee in NY-21.

              by Andrew C White on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:17:44 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I agree too. (4.00 / 2)

                But I will say, that Reid has played this masterfully. He has offered compromises that I don't think Frist can accept - because the compromises formally preserve Democratic power, which is what this whole push is really after.

                So the Dems can honestly say, with the record to back them, "We tried all the way make things work. They picked a fight, and they got one."

                "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

                by jbeach on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:34:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Exactly so. (none / 1)

                  I don't know where the votes stand, whether Frist has them or not, but this is a classic example of brinksmanship and Reid has played his hand well.

                  It is about ultimate unchecked power (and the Supreme Court) and is not about these particular judges as far as the Republicans are concerned.

                  The proposed compromise would be bad news for us because we'd get horrible, unqualified, radical fringe judges out of the deal but it would be a complete failure for Frist and his Totalitarian Elephant Party because it would not eliminate the constitutional checks on their power that they so desparetly want gone so that they can achieve their goal of absolute power in a one party state.

                  Should Frist have the vote any Judges appointed through this anti-consitutional manuever will be illegally seated on the bench and therefore perfectly legally removable by The People of the United States of America.

                  Full Disclosure: I am Chair of the Darius Shahinfar for Congress Campaign Committee in NY-21.

                  by Andrew C White on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:43:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  It's not the GOP leadership we're talking about. (none / 0)

                It's six freelancing Republicans, going on record in this proposed deal as being willing to oppose Frist in a nuclear option vote.

                I'm not particularly in love with the idea of trusting Republicans on this, but remember that for the most part, these are the ones we were counting on to break off and go our way on the nuclear option if it came to a vote. And I find it ironic that if it comes to that instead, and they do help us block the nuclear option, they'll be "heroes," but today, in trying to compromise and avoid the whole thing, they're scumbags we can't trust.

                But that's politics for you.

                by Kagro X on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:42:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  But the fact of the matter is... (none / 0)

                  ... we can't trust them. I mean, I hear what you are saying but until they prove they are trustworthy and true patriots they are still members of Frist, DeLay, and Bush's Totalitarian Party and they are still succeptable to the kind of pressure that DeLay used to illegally pass the Medicare legislation.

                  I don't believe for one minute that these folks are all (particularly the six or seven I can think of that we hope are on our side) but I don't trust the Rethuglican leadership to recognize, respect, or tolerate any agreement made that goes against their ultimate goal of a one party state.

                  Full Disclosure: I am Chair of the Darius Shahinfar for Congress Campaign Committee in NY-21.

                  by Andrew C White on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:47:20 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ummm... (none / 0)

                    that should say "are all bad people" in the middle there.

                    Full Disclosure: I am Chair of the Darius Shahinfar for Congress Campaign Committee in NY-21.

                    by Andrew C White on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:49:30 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  They don't have to respect it. (none / 0)

                    It is what it is.

                    If six Republicans join the Democrats, it doesn't matter what Frist says about the nuclear option. Six Republican Senators make it nothing but a pipe dream, whether Frist chooses to "respect" their position or not.

                    I dislike having to trust, too. But that's the nature of the Senate. If you don't like it, don't run. These folks may not know it all, but they know their colleagues. Nobody would make a deal like this with Santorum, for instance, or Coburn. But they know who they can trust when there's no other alternative but to pick someone.

                    That's not to say that the whole thing wouldn't blow up one day over differing interpretations of the terms, but it's less likely to be a bad faith break with these six than with the current Republican leadership and their ilk.

                    by Kagro X on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:53:54 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I think you are right... (none / 0)

                      about that and I think the likely six are the honorable sort that the Senate used to filled with. However, you make an important point about different interpretations because the quote I've seen from McCain has read no fillibuster "except in extreme cases" and all 10 currently blocked qualify as extreme cases as far as most of us are concerned... so now the Rethugs can claim we are the ones acting in bad faith rather then the other way around and Frist can try again. I also worry about pressure from Frist and the Republican machine on their wayward members. Club for Growth can be expected to take action against any Republicans that break ranks so a compromise is likely to be little more than a stop gap measure in my estimation.

                      I guess part of the bottom line for me is that I'm not so sure the Senate works in the "time-honored" way that it used to. We talk about Senate colleagues and deal making and in the past that really meant something but in todays poisoned environment.... boy, I just don't know anymore. It sure isn't as bad as the House but I don't think they are that far behind. Civility is hanging on by its threads.

                      Full Disclosure: I am Chair of the Darius Shahinfar for Congress Campaign Committee in NY-21.

                      by Andrew C White on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:37:42 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Yeah but it's a question of duration (none / 0)

                  If there's a compromise, then it'll only take one Republican breaking that compromise for it to all fall through (and it will deprive us of getting votes in line as Reid has been doing). The Dems will be dependent on those Republicans from this point forward to maintain their end of the bargain (which is why it was so troubling that Lott was pushing the compromise; he's not spitting distance trustworthy).

                  But if there's actually a VOTE, then the Senators will be on record. While I realize Norquist is threatening to keep bringing this up until it passes (funny how he gets to decide these things), I think once a person votes against the nuclear option, they will continue to vote that way. It's the initial vote which is difficult, but maintaining a principled position, I think, is not so difficult.

                  This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

                  by emptywheel on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:53:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Maybe. (none / 0)

                    Cloture votes tend to shift, though, as filibusters drag on.

                    I agree that Lott isn't necessarily among my first choices for partnership in this deal, and the parties to the bargain might be wise to increase their membership to 8+ on either side. But surely from the other perspective, there is worry that it takes only one Democrat to decide that a nominee is an "extreme case."

                    by Kagro X on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:58:44 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  yeah (none / 0)

              i gave you a 4 cause i loved the risk reference.

              But, in my opinion, any agreement that preserves the filibuster for SCOTUS appointments is a significant victory for us.  

              Can we trust republicans to honor that hypothetical agreement?  I'd guess so .. because as said we are dealing with republicans that are already under tremendous pressure to walk in lock-step with the party as it is ... the WH & Frist will use all possible influence to coerce them into supporting the nuclear option ... and if that didn't work (by evidence of a compromise agreement) then what other options are the republican leaders left with?

              by JoelK in AZ on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:04:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Well, I've nevr been a great composer, but this (none / 0)

            was my statement. Perhaps abit much, but it is what I feel:

            I've always viewed all Americans as Patriots, regardless of whether or not we agreed with each

            other. However, as I now understand it, Republicans don't believe this to be the case; At least

            not anymore. According to this Neo-Republicanism, if you don't agree with them, you are

            un-American. The right to decent, in their eyes, should no longer be a right, unless it is

            meaningless. During the swearing in oath, all Senators swear an oath to uphold and protect the

            U.S. Constitution. Within it, it explicitly states, "that I take this obligation freely, without

            any mental reservation or purpose of evasion." I no longer believe the Republican Party actually

            holds to this oath. Their behavior over the past couple of decades has shown them to be

            subverting the purpose of our government. If they are so willing to break the Senate rules,

            because they believe they are above them, or an impediment to what they want, as opposed to

            what's best for the nation as decided as set forth by the existing rules of our great democracy,

            then what rules shall they be bound by? With this procedure, the Republicans reveal themselves to

            believe in a country ruled by men, not by law, in my humble opinion. They are demonstrating that

            they cannot be entrusted with the reigns of the nations power. If they are so willing to cast

            aside rules they do not like, out of simple opposition to their poor recommendations and ideas,

            what is to stop them from doing whatever they want, such as banning all current Senate rules? The

            answer is, there isn't anything to bind their power. With the removal of the filibuster rule, the

            United States of America will pass from the history books as a representative democracy, to one

            that is ruled by the tyranny of a single political party. History may regard them more kindly

            than I, however, I sincerely doubt any honest piece written of this time will regard them with

            anything short of contempt. The historians will know for whom the bell tolled.

            The sleep of reason produces monsters.

            by Alumbrados on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:25:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  And this... (none / 1)

          http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/17/134821/846

          I'm not afraid of terrorists anymore. I'm afraid of my government.

          by supergreen on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:22:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Nelson of Nebraska (none / 1)

          and McCain were suppossedly working the negotiating table... whether on their own or with tacit approval from Reid and Frist is unknown to me.

          Full Disclosure: I am Chair of the Darius Shahinfar for Congress Campaign Committee in NY-21.

          by Andrew C White on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:18:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  apparently all that (none / 1)

        negotiatin' is over. good.

        it's on.

        "after the Rapture, we get all their shit"

        It's time: the albany project.

        by lipris on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:17:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  And in other news... (4.00 / 19)

    ....Ep III premieres tommorrow at Midnight, wherein we see the dissolution of the Galactic Senate and the naked power grab of Palpatine.

    What a remarkable coincidence.

    People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

    by viget on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:07:49 PM PDT

  •  CNN (4.00 / 2)

    Was the CNN report subsequent to whatever transpired to have Reid distribute this email?  

    Just curious because I don't watch TV news and perhaps I haven't placed this email in the proper context.  

    I mean Reid flat out says it will start (if not finish) tomorrow.  I assume he is speaking the truth.

    by JoelK in AZ on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:09:31 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for this (4.00 / 2)

    Lets see how things go.

    Anyone want to start a diary chain now:)

    www.DowningStreetMemo.com

    by Mikecan1978 on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:11:41 PM PDT

  •  Confused (4.00 / 2)

    Why does he say "Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist has informed me that tomorrow he will bring the nominations of Priscilla Owen and Janice Rogers Brown to the floor of the United States Senate."  And then follow with "Next week I need all of you on the Democrats.gov email list to stand with us. I want to use your voice as part of this debate. Tell me and in fact the American people why this debate is important to you and I will use some of your statements on the floor."

    Is this going to be a week long debate?  I thought it would take a day at the most, what's up?

    by SleepyG on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:12:57 PM PDT

    •  I gather Cheney's on the Hill (4.00 / 2)

      on Tuesdays. Would that explain it?

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:16:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think it's a Mistake (none / 1)

      Somebody e-mail them becasue he says later.

      "Lend your voice and stand with me on the floor this week. There has never been a more important time."

      Good catch

      www.DowningStreetMemo.com

      by Mikecan1978 on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:16:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think (none / 1)

      Frist has said that he plans a lengthy debate on the judges and the filibuster option, so I suspect that the actual nuclear vote will be next week.

      Resistance is NOT futile.

      by Dperl99 on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:18:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, it will likely be a week or so. (4.00 / 4)

      Frist will bring the nominations to the floor, at which point the Senate will start debating them. That will likely take some time.

      At some point, probably next week, Frist will then attempt to end the debate via the "nuclear option", e.g. by claiming that having further debate in accordance with the past 200 years of Senate history is, I shit you not, unconstitutional, and asking the Senate to vote on this interpretation. That's when the fireworks will start.

      So we'll be debating Owen and Brown (presumably) for a number of days, on their merits, before it actually gets to the "nuclear" part.

      by Hunter on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:32:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Long debate on the question (none / 0)

      Many reports have said that there will be a long debate on changing the rules, and that at least some Senators' votes may be swayed by the debate.  Several days, perhaps.  See The Next Hurrah, esp RonK's piece a couple of days ago.

      John McCain--he's not who you think he is.

      by Mimikatz on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:50:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Frist can't put this off too much longer (4.00 / 9)

    Dobson will really start to get his knickers in a twist.

    veritas vos liberabit

    by WWGray on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:14:12 PM PDT

  •  bring it on, (4.00 / 11)

    fucker. sounds like reid's ready. i'm ready. you?

    "after the Rapture, we get all their shit"

    It's time: the albany project.

    by lipris on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:15:23 PM PDT

  •  Why do you think Frist has the votes? (4.00 / 2)

    There is no evidence, as of yet, that he does.

    Hand me down my walking cane, hand me down my hat...

    by Cheez Whiz on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:15:52 PM PDT

    •  well (none / 0)

      i assume that Frist would not risk the public embarrassment of losing a vote that he initiated.

      i suppose were he to lose the vote that he could whine about those evil democrats thwarting god's will....typical republican whining.  

      so i see your point...but i guess i'm not that optimisitic by nature.

      by JoelK in AZ on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:18:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Evil Democrats like (none / 1)

        Nebraska Republicans? Hmmm, I don't know how well that would work.

        "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

        by jfern on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:22:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Fristie risks public embarrassment everyday (4.00 / 4)

        I mean, he gets up and leaves the house, doesn't he? If you're Bill Frist, leaving the house runs a pretty big risk of embarrassment.

        This is the way democracy ends Not with a bomb But with a gavel -Max Baucus

        by emptywheel on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:24:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Does Frist Have The Votes? (none / 1)

        Whether Frist has the votes or not, he is going forward. Frist is personally committed, he is committed to the White House and he is committed to the Christian Fascists.  He cannot delay or compromise.  So the fact that he is going forward does not mean he has the votes.

        He doesn't need to win this to bind the loyalty of the Christian Fascists, he only needs to show that he will put his career on the line for them.  Beltway Democrats don't understand this, which is one reason they are regarded as unprincipled, politically calculating losers in most of the country.  You don't have to win all your fights, but you do have to fight all of them.

        by James Earl on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:21:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Let's rock!!!!!! (4.00 / 9)

    BRING IT BITCH!

    by johnnyNYC on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:16:05 PM PDT

    •  Galloway said it best today! (none / 1)

      When it comes to these idiots I don't stealing his best words! 'It wasn't the beginning of the end, it was the end of the beginning!!'  The fall of the Fillibuster = the fall of Baghdad, and these shitheads just keep losing and losing to people who really have something to lose to their ego driven imperial notions.

      "People die. Strategies fail. Blame is laid. And we, as a nation, are made to look like assholes." - Brandon Friedman

      by Militarytracy on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:00:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It looks like it will go off tomorrow (4.00 / 2)

    I just got this from moveon"

    Dear MoveOn member,
    Today the final countdown begins. Before the day is over, Bill Frist has promised to move the four most controversial of Bush's rejected judicial nominees to floor of the Senate. From this moment forward Frist's finger will be on the "nuclear" trigger - at any moment he could rise to break the rules of the Senate, shut down the debate and force these extremists onto the bench. With the final showdown likely to begin in a matter of hours, our senators need to hear from us right now.

    With national polls showing the American people solidly opposed to Frist's plan, congressional Republicans are growing increasingly nervous. Even those who have pledged to support the "nuclear option" are hoping they won't have to cast a final vote for such a radical move. We need to show every Republican senator that their constituents are counting on them to stand up against this dangerous abuse of power - and encourage them to back away from the brink.

    Please call today:

    "Science is a differential equation. Religion is a boundary condition." -- Alan Turing

    by Hibernian on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:19:35 PM PDT

  •  Are you sure this isnt from last week?? (none / 1)

    Just cuz it is says, "Next week, I need all of you..." I say it just because CNN apparently reported just a few hours aothat Frist has pushed any showdown until next week, on Tuesday or Wednesday. Of course, I'm more inclined to believe Senator Reid than CNN. Anyway, let's do it, I guess, Reid sounds ready.

    Vote for Michelle Obama!

    by jj32 on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:19:39 PM PDT

    •  Frist said it's tomorrow (none / 1)

      Frist himself said this morning on the floor of the Senate and in a mini press conference he gave after he left the floor that debate on one of the filibustered judges would begin tomorrow. He hadn't decided which one he would send down (he was meeting with the judges later in the day, according to C-SPAN).  But this being Frist, it wouldn't suprise me if he pushed it back another week.  "Next week" seems to be Frist's theme. I hope that means he doesn't have the votes.

      by Terps Fan on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:32:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Lay on MacDuff! (4.00 / 5)

    And damned be the first to cry, "Hold! Enough!"

    Dudehisattva...

    "Generosity, Ethics, Patience, Effort, Concentration, and Wisdom"

    by Dood Abides on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:19:54 PM PDT

  •  here's what i think (3.50 / 2)

    1. Frist doesn't have the votes. I mean even he can read. There's 7 GOP senators who sound very iffy and another 2 who simply won't say. If he had the votes, he'd vote. Simple as that.

    2. This compromise deal will get worked out. Again read the link above. This becomes a power play between Frist/WH vs. the Legislative branch/moderates. McCain and Hagel play a key role here, voting "no" on the nuke option is actually good for their positioning going into '08.

    So, Frist loses either way, but he's giving them time to work out the compromise so he can take save some face here.

    by thirdparty on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:21:41 PM PDT

    •  The ones who "sound iffy" publicly... (4.00 / 4)

      ...may well be more firmly decided privately, but what to make a show of being swayed by some aspect of the drama leading up to the vote, rather than going in closeminded. Politics is, after all, largely theater.

      by cdicely on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:23:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  filibuster and base closings? (none / 0)

    Do you think that the base closings are being used to shove over the weak-kneed republicans? Looking at the list it looks as though they may have put the squeeze on them. You know, vote with us on the filibuster and maybe the pentagon might find that it doesn't need to close your base.

    Everything is politics with this administration.

    by ewokninja on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:26:31 PM PDT

    •  sure, that'll work because (none / 0)

      we know how the Republicans keep their word, even to each other

      It's far better to uphold the Constitution and burn the flag than it is to hold up the flag and burn the Constitution.

      by beemer on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:38:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The base closings will work. (4.00 / 2)

        I bet it will work with Collins and Snowe.  It might even work with Warner as northern Virginia got hit pretty hard.  I don't know where else they are going to put the people from Arlington VA though.  They are just in buildings that don't meet Homeland Security standards and they could be retrofitted to be up to par.  

        With Connecticut on the block, he might even get Joementum to vote his way.  Can't you just see Joe justifying his vote against the filibuster saying he is doing it to save jobs in CT?  Joe was in front of the cameras this morning trying to get a compromise at all costs.

        by Mcguffin on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:02:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  So the big question is (none / 0)

    When it does go down, how much play will this whole show get in the MSM?  Enough to reach the ones who "aren't paying attention" or just "ho hum, more boring inner workings of the senate, yawn..."

    Well one big question anyway.

    by WisVoter on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:28:30 PM PDT

  •  Reid: Nuclear option date and time (none / 1)

    JoelK, cheer up. It doesn't necessarily mean that Frist  "has the votes." It may mean that Frist  thinks he has the votes, or it may mean that he suspects he doesn't but knows that he can't change anybody's mind at this point.

    The DNC has set up a telephone briefing call with Reid tomorrow Wednesday May 18, 11:45 Eastern time, so presumably the party will begin after noon.

    by JEANMADDY on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:28:50 PM PDT

  •  Oh yay it's Durbin (none / 0)

    His benign countenance pleases me. And he always raises the bar on clarity and good sense.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:30:01 PM PDT

  •  Great Idea Senator Reid! (4.00 / 4)

    It makes me wonder where I have seen someone accepting comments from supporters to be read during a filibuster before.

    This makes me feel good.  But back to the battle.  People for the American Way are sending out text messages the moment happens.  Sign up.

    Tim

    I am proud to work for Chris Dodd's Presidential campaign

    by ttagaris on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:33:10 PM PDT

  •  'Your Voice' as part of the debate (none / 0)

    Does that means he plans to fillibuster the fillibuster debate? That would be sneaky if they just launched into the fillibuster during the debate on nominees. Or was that the plan all along?

    Intelligent Designer Laments Lapse in Intelligence

    by mrblifil on Tue May 17, 2005 at 01:59:02 PM PDT

  •  You know what's sad... (4.00 / 8)

    As much as we don't like to admit it, we like our government to get things done, instead of squabbling over some moronic judicial nominees. Yet it seems that any attempts by Reid and the Dems (and even moderate GOP Senators) to bring about a compromise have failed. Why? Because the GOP is not interested in a compromise. They are not looking to work jointly with the minority to tackle the country's problems. They want a complete power-grab, and if this is not an indication, I don't know what is. It's just sad that this will contribute to further polarization of the country.

    Mikhail Khaimov San Francisco, CA

    by Tsarrio on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:12:22 PM PDT

    •  Right on (4.00 / 2)

      You are right.  The nuclear option is not a means to an end.  Rather, the judicial nominees are the means and the nuclear option is the end.

      Life is like love in autumn

      by kenjib on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:32:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ad Infinitum (none / 0)

        ...SCOTUS is the end.  That's what it's all about.

        Rubus Eradicandus Est.

        by Randomfactor on Tue May 17, 2005 at 04:33:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Beyond that. (none / 0)

          I don't think that's entirely the end either. This is about everything. The whole bag of chips. This is about being able to ram through whatever they want, whenever they want, without any checks against this ability.

          It's either a really short-sighted power grab, or they have some kind of undisclosed mechanism in place by which they do not expect to ever be voted out of power.

          Life is like love in autumn

          by kenjib on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:20:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Polarization (none / 0)

      It's just sad that this will contribute to further polarization of the country.

      Maybe this is petty of me, or wishful thinking, but I don't mind polarization -- if my pole wins.  (Yes, I said "my pole."  :P)

      by FlipYrWhig on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:59:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I hope Reid filibusters... (none / 0)

    ... the nominees with our comments when the debate opens up.  

    This whole ordeal is so depressing.  Its like watching the death of democracy and the average American doesnt care because all they get to hear about is Micheal Jackson.

    This should be a bigger deal than pretty much anything else happening in America right now.  Why do you think the wingnuts are making such a big deal about Newsweek right now?  Can you say Smokescreen?

    "Plenty of rich folks want to fight. Give them the guns." -Woody Guthrie

    by The Party Plague on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:18:29 PM PDT

  •  Based on recent history (none / 0)

    like, say, the past 5 years, it seems to me the score is something like

    GOP: 267
    DEM:   0

    (and a whole lot of GOP wins had Dems batting for their opponents)

    The GOP has no give. They have a platform and they stick together.

    They have the votes.

    Time for we liberals to get Plan B ready--strangle the entire legislation's ability to function.

    -6.63 -5.64

    I am I and you are you, and we are both each other too -- Clair Huffaker

    by xysrl on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:20:26 PM PDT

  •  Fuck 'em! (none / 0)

    Let them use it.
    If they have the votes, let them use it.
    They will pay fot it.

    And if Reid and his soldiers can't turn this in the dems favor now, then perhaps when so much damage has been finally done to our party will we elect stronger soldiers to not give an inch.

    MY prayers are with Reid.
    Get it done.

    by Sam Loomis on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:33:45 PM PDT

  •  Fingers crossed (none / 0)

    I'm feeling wary but optimistic. All the polls show, the more the public hears about this, the more they hate the GOP.

    I believe this will be a stinging defeat for the GOP, no matter how it's spun.
     

    "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

    by jbeach on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:39:01 PM PDT

  •  My letter... (none / 0)

    ... to Congresswoman Nancy Johson

    Dear Congresswoman Johnson,
    I urge you to vote NO to ending the filibuster rule on Judiciary nominees.

    President Bush has had more than 95% of his judicial nominations confirmed. But apparently that isn't enough for him or for your republican colleagues. If the "Nuclear Option" is invoked tomorrow, it is another example of an overreaching attempt by Republicans for absolute power in Washington. Republicans don't have the votes to pass these nominees so they will their abuse power and break the rules to get their way. In fact it's even worse, because they need to break the rules to break the rule. If the "Nuclear Option" comes to be it is tantamount to the end of the checks and balances that our founding fathers envisioned in our constitution. Please, Congresswoman Johnson, do not vote to end the filibuster. If the sides were reversed you would feel the same way.

    A democracy is rule by the majority with the rights of the minority protected. The checks and balances were designed into our system of government in order to protect the rights of the minority from an overzealous majority rule. The filibuster rule is one of those very checks and balances.

    I trust, Congresswoman Johnson, that you know in your heart the right thing to do is to preserve the structure of checks and balances which preserve the rights of the minority. I trust that you know the right thing to do is to vote NO to ending the filibuster rule. Please vote to protect minority rights.

    Visit My Blog

    by younggoodmanB on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:45:19 PM PDT

  •  I stand with Senator Reid and the Democrats (none / 1)

    Which one of you slackers has yet to sign your support for the Democrats' opposition to this bloody-minded slice of evil?

    Get thee to the WEBSITE and sign the form!

    Here's what I wrote.  I hope it gets read into the record.

    The forces of corporatism and Dominionism have worked overtime to elect Republicans in recent years, and now it's payback time.

    Who holds your leash, Senator Frist?  To whom are you so beholden that you must abandon all sense of justice in order to confirm judicial nominees that leave members of your own party queasy?

    Some day, some day soon, the Republicans will once again be the minority party in the Senate.  I welcome this overreaching by the Republicans because it will only hasten the arrival of that fine day.

    When the Republicans are in the minority, Senator Frist, will you still support the idea that the majority is always right?

    -AG

    "Watching George Bush trying to govern is like
    watching a monkey trying to f**k a football."
    I'm a libertarian, pro-2A capitalist Democrat.

    by AlphaGeek on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:55:38 PM PDT

  •  My message to Senator Reid (4.00 / 2)

    Senator Reid,

    That these judges were nominated in the first place demonstrates the low regard in which George Bush holds the rights and freedoms of the American people. That he resubmitted the nominations after they were blocked by the Democrats is truly arrogant. But the efforts by Senator Frist, with tacit support from the White House, to do away with the filibuster in violation of the Senate's rules is way beyond the pale. It is ironic that we must wage this battle to protect minority rights when the Democratic senators (along with Senator Jeffords) represent a majority of Americans.

    I applaud your efforts at compromise, and your refusal to accept an unfair bargain. I fully support you and the Democratic senators in your struggle to hold the line against a complete takeover of the government by the radical right.
    Probably won't be read on the Senate floor, huh?

    by chezgle on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:08:54 PM PDT

    •  This was mine (none / 0)

      "The filibuster is one of the last checks and balances keeping us from one party rule in America, a country that is supposed to encourage a wide specturm of views and beliefs.  Eliminating it is murdering a part of the American dream that people from any part of the political spectrum can come together and diplomatically  disagree and work towards comprimise which benefits everyone as Americans, regardless of political party.  Once we destroy these checks and balances, the very checks and balances our founding fathers wanted to keep America from being conquored by theocracies, totalitarianism and ruling class from within our own borders, we lay to bed the very ideas that has lived on in Americans since our Founding Fathers gave birth to them over two hundred years ago.

      Any senator that tries to destroy the filibuster has no respect for the founding fathers and has no reverence for the American Dream  of a country where every citizen is fairly represented."

      a bit over dramatic, but fuck it.  I stand by it.

      "Plenty of rich folks want to fight. Give them the guns." -Woody Guthrie

      by The Party Plague on Tue May 17, 2005 at 04:02:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Unlikely to happen today (none / 0)

    Sen. McConnell just got up and gave a preview of the agenda for tomorrow (standard procedure).

    He said they will start with Priscilla Owen's nomination in the morning, that the day will basically be spend debating, that they want to give every Senator a chance to be heard on this nomination.  It will be hard for them to rush her towards a quick vote at this point; they have to let the filibuster play out a bit first.

    by Steve M on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:19:44 PM PDT

  •  Timeline (none / 0)

    What are the chances of Frist pulling the trigger after 100 hours of debate as that was on the table at one time and it gives way too many people the time to be bored and slip away to follow the Jackson trial?

    In God we trust, All others we monitor -AFTAC (-2.75, -2.67)

    by lcs on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:32:31 PM PDT

  •  Why going Nuclear is GOOD news (none / 0)

    I look at it this way. RatPubs go Nuclear. Then the Dems shut down the Govt. That means that the RatPubs can't push thru their Nazi legislation at the current break neck speed. If Dems don't impede the Rats, we'll all be broke and destitute by the time the Orangutan leaves office to count his loot.

    I'd trade a few religious extremist judges for that any day.

    Anyone for a quick game of Chess.

    by CitizenOfEarth on Tue May 17, 2005 at 04:18:08 PM PDT

Permalink | 137 comments