Daily Kos

Sen. Frist still on rampage, MSNBC attributes "nuclear option" to his foes

by Christopher Bair

Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:49:29 PM PDT

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7967386/

Frist declares that since he was not party to the agreement, he will still use the "Constitutional option" to kill filibusters and force through any judicial nominees. MSNBC.com and Tom Curry, the author of the article, attribute the term "nuclear option" to Frist's "foes".

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  •  MSNBC (4.00 / 3)

    is still doing the devil's work.  No surprise there.

    I'd like to see Frist do exactly what he threatens.  Let's watch the bible-thumpers fight the old school in-it-for-the-money conservatives.  I'll buy popcorn.

    Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

    by ubikkibu on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:47:04 PM PDT

    •  i'll bring the drinks (4.00 / 2)

      b/c this is one fight i'd like to see.  

      like Darth Maal vs. Darth Vader....what do ya think??  :-)

      Frist is SO done.  It's enjoyable but DAMN i really wanted him to be their nominee -- he would've bored his base to sleep & they would've slept thru election day.

      McCain may be a problem.

      Texas Kaos Take Back Texas

      Bush, What Price Did You Pay?

      by krazypuppy on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:51:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  McCain (none / 1)

        and all the other 13 senators on that committee have lost all or most of the support they had from the RW fundies. At least that's what it's sounding like on the "right side of the dial" today.

        People of every color, marching side to side, marching 'cross these fields where a million fascists dies - Woody Guthrie

        by JoMo DemKim on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:58:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yup, Rush got his marching orders from Rove, and (4.00 / 2)

          they are all over the 'moderate' GOP Senators. They are also trying to spin the heck out of the meaning of 'extraordinary circumstances'.

          This isn't over until the meaning of 'extraordinary circumstances' is defined in our favor.

          Don't be so afraid of dying that you forget to live.

          by LionelEHutz on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:03:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the fundies hate McCain (none / 1)

            for this but he's pretty conservative & looked like a big winner to the mainstream.

            he'll get enough old-skool conservatives & moderates to be formidable.

            i don't think he's lost the primaries b/c of this.  in fact i think he took out a key opponent.

            Texas Kaos Take Back Texas

            Bush, What Price Did You Pay?

            by krazypuppy on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:24:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  McCain presidential aspirations++ (none / 1)

              Exactly.  I couldn't help but think to myself watching the Today show that McCain pretty much gave his image a huge boost all over the country.  If (and a big if) he can make it through the primaries, this will be gravy come election time.  Unless all of the moderates and old school suddenly stay home, McCain has an excellent shot at winning the primaries.

              by RedStapler on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:36:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  BTW, Frist is done (none / 0)

          this thing about Dobson-Frist raising the Filibuster is crap now.

          Dobson-Frist is nuts enough to launch it again but these "moderates" are on record as being the "centrists who saved the Senate" blah blah.

          They're not going to flip-flop on their own deal -- we saw how bad that worked for Kerry.

          The Dems won't block good judges -- only nutcases. And the 4/5 Amercians support this.  That & this deal will give these Repubs enough cover to buck the extremists.

          The big losers today were Dobson & Frist -- & they're acting like sore losers to prove it.

          Whatever you think of the deal (& it didn't wow me), we did not lose.  We may not have won enough in your opinion but IMHO i think we won a political victory.

          Hopefully not at the cost of a moral one but history will tell us that.

          Texas Kaos Take Back Texas

          Bush, What Price Did You Pay?

          by krazypuppy on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:52:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  To be honest... (none / 0)

        ... I think McCain is too old for the job.  He is going to be 72 when the 2008 Election begins.

        Besides, the guys is VERY conservative; not right-wing-nut-job convservative, but more conservative than most people in the US.  

        by carlton858 on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:52:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Could Rove just set Frist up? (none / 0)

        No way Rove thinks Frist could win and Allen is a much tougher foe as he's as likeable as Bush and possibly even more ignorant (See also - regular guy) on the most vital issues facing our country.

        Obama-Warner cabinet - SECSTATE Holbrook, SECDEF Clark, SECENERGY Gore, SECTREAS Yellen, SECLABOR Reich, USAG Fitzgerald, EPA Kennedy, Jr.

        by alexm on Tue May 24, 2005 at 03:03:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Not bad (4.00 / 2)

    Assuming the R's who made the deal hold up their end of the bargain, Frist will come off as both extreme AND impotent, and probably more than a little dishonest, too.

    Of course, the critical question will be: will the R's keep their word, or will they turn into oathbreakers?

    by Jonathan on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:47:23 PM PDT

  •  Email the author (none / 0)

    Tomcurry@feedback.msnbc.com

    Let him know that the nuclear option wording came from the GOP originally.

    Finding God in a Dog

    by maxomai on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:47:51 PM PDT

    •  He is accurate (none / 1)

      The term did indeed come from Frist's "foes:" notably, Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS).

      He's missing the story by not observing that  Frist has more and more foes on the GOP side of the aisle, of course.

      by Elwood Dowd on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:57:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think this is a correction.... (none / 1)

        I wrote to him previously commenting on how he needed to stop referring to Lott as "Democrats"  (I believe their he said "which Democrats have labeled the nuclear option."

        Apparenlty he has corrected himself.

        Didn't think the infighting would get to the level of Lott and Frist being considered "foes" the first day out.

        "If we outlaw everything some people find offensive, there wouldn't even be a Texas in the first place." - Cindy Campos, Lifeguard

        by jandrewmorrison on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:08:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  My reply from Tom Curry (none / 0)

      My email:
      You are correct that the term "nuclear option" was coined by a Frist
      "foe." But you owe your readers some clarity on this point. It was a
      REPUBLICAN foe of Frist, Trent Lott, who coined the phrase.
      Please be more specific when resorting to name-calling in the future.
      Clarity is the handmaiden of truth.
      Thank you, ...

      Tom Curry's Reply
      In my story, I did not discuss who coined the term & what the heck
      difference does it make?

      Frist does not use it -- his adversaries do. That's a fact.

      LOL - 'What difference does it make?'

      Okay, my turn.

      Opponents of President Bush's rush to war have warned the President of the problems the US armed forces would face in Iraq. Those adversaries have called it the "Pottery Barn Rule" - you break it, you fix it.

      See what difference it makes, Mr. Curry?

      Inquiry that does not achieve coordination of behaviour is not inquiry but simply wordplay - Richard Rorty

      by BuckMulligan on Wed May 25, 2005 at 12:16:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good for him (none / 1)

    It will show people what an absolute puppet he is.  Dobson is continuing to pull the strings and the Frist dance could be fun to watch.

    "Do Iraqi children scream when the bombs fall if no one is in the White House to hear them?" Bernard Chazelle

    by dmac on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:48:11 PM PDT

  •  Oy! (none / 1)

    The MSM wonders why we don't take them seriously when they can't even come to terms with the fact that TRENT LOTT coined the phrase "Nuclear Option."

    It's the Republican's phrase MSNBC assholes.

    Fucking pathetic...

    by GregNYC on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:50:44 PM PDT

  •  I love it (4.00 / 2)

    Every temper tantrum helps.

    by Mike S on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:53:15 PM PDT

  •  By forcing a vote, he can keep the ,,, (4.00 / 2)

    promise to the Dobson's, etc...
    Even if he loses he wins then becuase he gots those votes on the record for "Education Pamphlets" to be distributed to their flocks about the voting records of the disloyal republicans.

    Then Frist's hands are clean, he did what was promised, just did not deliver.

    Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

    by dvogel001 on Tue May 24, 2005 at 01:59:41 PM PDT

  •  Oh for crying out loud (4.00 / 2)

    Someone shove the passifier back in his yap.

    Dang, can't the man ever just STFU?

    "Revolutionary change does not come as one cataclysmic moment...but as an endless succession of surprises, moving zigzag toward a more decent society."

    by saint on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:10:08 PM PDT

  •  Frist will be "Flipping the Bird" (none / 0)

    at six of his fellow Republican Senators if he does that. Doesn't he need them for other things?

    by wdrath on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:11:12 PM PDT

  •  difference between Dem moderates and GOP moderates (none / 1)

    My position for 2 weeks has been that anything that deprives Frist of the nuclear option is a win for us. They're in the majority and control all the levers of power; our only strategy is a defensive fight that seeks to cede ground slowly and force them to overcommit to divide against themselves. In that logic, its a win for us.

    What frustrating is how easily the media lets it become an "extremes" vs. "moderate center" story line, as if "both sides" were on equal footing and equally responsible for disagreement. HEre, too, though we can come out ahead, since clearly Frist's reaction yesterday and this AM was one of frustration -- he wanted to separate himself
    from the compromise to prove his reactionary, hard-line Taliban credentials to Dobson et al. Reid, on the other hand, smoothly pivoted from being against any further negotiations and preparing for tactical retaliation (a loser's game in any event, though his only option in that case) into claiming credit and alligning himself with the compromise.

    If it works, the story line could become, Frist loses; Reid's proposal, though not accepted by reason, became the basis for the moderate compromise. That is, Frist is an extremist; Reid is a moderate.

    But the real story it seems to involves the very different reasons between Democratic "moderates" and Republican "moderates" for what they did
    -- in short, they have very different relationships to their leadership and their parties.

    On the GOP side, folks like Warner, McCain Specter and even Graham really don't like Frist, think he's pandering way too much to the social hard-liners and wanted to send a message to Rove that he cannot make the entire GOP into an extension of its interests groups (and more specifically, its most politically obtuse interest groups -- the Dobson Taliban).

    On our side, the compromise caucus had the support, if tacit, of the leadership precisely because a compromise would demonstrate
    a break with our most politically obtuse single-issue interest groups (read, abortion rights groups). For the past few years, those
    folks have been the ones to determine how the Democratic caucus votes on judicial nominees -- and those folks were the ones who were the most active in supporting Kerry (and which prevented him from finessing hot-button social issues at all) and forced out Langevin in RI and instead endorsed Chafee (which is a race we need to win to take back the Senate in 08.)

    Reid knows, everyone knows (even those of us who are uncompromisingly pro-choice liberals), that we need to break the strangle-hold of single-issue interest groups on the Party AND that we need to do so without causing a lot of bad press about left-right rifts in the Party.

    So in that sense, Reid and the Democrats are big, big winners here -- although
    confirming Owen and Brown is terrible, this is an important step towards a longer-term gain -- greater flexibility in our message AND greater credibility for the leadership that it can maintain unity while not straight-jacketing Dems on wedge issues.

    by desmoulins on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:11:44 PM PDT

  •  i may be mistaken... (none / 0)

    but wouldnt the attempt to do away with the filibuster be dead in the water, because of the mods who signed the agreement?  or would these republican senators still vote against the filibuster, despite the agreement they signed.

    by ZAust on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:12:46 PM PDT

  •  Frist is posturing. He is a poser. (none / 0)

    He wants to run for President in 2008 so he needed to come up with this transparently phony notion that he wasn't party to the compromise in order to keep the extreme right in his corner.  The idea that an all-powerful Senate Majority Leader with the full backing of Karl Rove -- the puppet master of the Emperor (in fact he may be the Emperor and Bush the Sith apprentice) didn't know or couldn't prevent such a compromise is simply not credible. The fact is that all of the Republicans became very queasy at the thought of tying up the entire business of the country on an arcane procedural dispute, and the Dems were winning the issue in the polls, so it began to look like Schiavo II.  They bailed out, and Reid prevented Bush from creating lasting damage to the Senate and the separation of powers doctrine.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:17:09 PM PDT

  •  Okay, it's tacky, (4.00 / 2)

    but hey.

    Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us

    The lone and level sands stretch far away. -Shelley

    by justme on Tue May 24, 2005 at 02:18:12 PM PDT

  •  Why are we laughing? (none / 0)

    This is SOP for Bush/Frist/& Co. They will totally ignore what happened and make us fight every single nomination just as if there was no compromise. They will put even more pressure on their own moderates. They will act as if yesterday never happened. The same fight will have to be fought again and again and again because THEY NEVER QUIT.

    by Kansas on Tue May 24, 2005 at 03:16:17 PM PDT

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