Daily Kos

I get 300mpg. A review of my electric vehicle experience. (w/poll)

Thu May 26, 2005 at 06:12:03 PM PDT

So, I recently bought a shiny new electric scooter, a silver EVT-4000e, and so far, I'm loving it.  This is my second electric moped.

Most people, when you say the word "scooter," think of the Razor scooters that the neighborhood kids are into, or maybe the things that disabled/elderly people ride around in.  Well, here I'm talking about a 2-wheeled vehicle with a seat (and hopefully a suspension) that is capable of going at around 30mph.  In CA, if it's electric,  these can ride in the bike lanes.  

If it sounds like pretty much the ideal high efficiency commuting vehicle, that's because it is.  Especially in an area like mine, that gets 300 days of sun a year.  There are many different makes and models and I hereby declare myself a resource if anyone wants to ask questions because it's a lot of research to figure this out.

More info/review of electric scooters and thoughts about our energy consumption in general after the fold.

Past

My first e-scooter was the eGO Cycle 2, whose big asset is its price.  It generally costs $500-$1000 less than the other big brands.  It's wicked fun to ride - and has cool retro styling - but if you're using it for more than infrequent errands or weekend gallivanting (i.e. if you're commuting), expect it to break, and break often.  

I owned an eGO for a year and a half before the neighborhood hooligans did me a favor and stole it.  In that time, I went through 1.5 sets of batteries and through practice can now completely dismantle and reassemble the thing in about 2 hours.  It also only got a little more than half the advertised range with me, a 170lb rider.  Probably about 2-3 months of my time was spent with it in inoperable condition and the tech service (4000 miles away in RI) was... limited.  I was lucky though - I got insurance money; my SigFig also owned one that eventually just completely broke, irreparably.  His bitterness drove him to a Piaggio (the parent company of Vespa) Typhoon, a gas scooter that has repair shops nearby to everywhere.   I, however, decided to try my hand at another electric scooter.  

Present

Deciding early on in my search that I'd have to suck it up and spend more money if I didn't want to repeat my earlier electric scooter mechanic days, I started looking around at the bigger, more substantive models.  I wanted to buy the eMax, a German-engineered model that promised 40 mile range and new, more environmentally friendly battery technology (lead-acid is still industry standard).  However,  it's very new - there's only one company in the U.S. that sells it, and they promised me they'd have some in stock to fill my preorder every month for 4 months before I gave up.  Add to that the unsettling complete and utter lack of reviews (despite, according to them, the eMax being on the market for a year already in Germany) in German or otherwise, and I think I made the right decision.

My 2nd choice, and I've never been so happy to settle, is the EVT-4000e.

It has a lot of things going for it: 20-30 mile reliable range, 4 years or so on the market and lots of great press, and I bought it from a dealer in Oakland (~25 miles away from me, and having a sale on these for $2150 currently) who has expertise with all kinds of electric bikes and can do tech support and service.  Also, it's an extremely smooth ride, with a way more comfy seat than the bike seat that comes with the eGO - and the hub motor makes it almost noiseless.  The turning signal is the loudest thing on the bike.  Which means that I have to be extra conscious of sneaking up on other traffic and pedestrians, but also means I won't go deaf from riding the thing.  And unlike a gas scooter,  there are zero emissions.  

If you've ever been within 8 feet of a gas scooter, you'll understand why this is awesome - even apart from environmental concerns.  Nothin' says un-sexy like having your hair and clothes smell like exhaust.

Which brings me to the main point of this whole story - In trying to compare my 4000e (which desperately needs a nickname, any ideas?) to the gas-guzzling Typhoon (okay, it gets about 60mpg, but doesn't have a large tank, so you'll still be at the gas station about once/week, unless you have a gas can, which is usually not ideal) I wanted to show exactly how much more energy efficient it is.  Which is not easy...   My back of the envelope calculation used the following numbers:


  • Estimated 8 miles/day with charging each evening
  • Estimated (I haven't tested) range = 25 miles
  • Battery capacity = 2400 watt-hours
  • PG&E fossil fuel usage for my county = 33% of total
  • Price of PG&E electricity = 12.87 cents/kilowatt-hour
  • Estimated loss of energy from electricity generation/transmission = 75-90%
  • Energy in 1 gallon of gasoline = 125,000 Btu
    Energy in 1 kWh (kilowatt-hour) electricity  = 3,412 Btu

It's hard, because electricity isn't generated by burning gasoline, but by burning a combination of coal, natural gas, fuel oil, mainly --- 60% of electricity from PG&E was generated this way in 2002.  So I converted the amount of electricity from fossil fuels I think my bike uses into energy units, and figured out how much gasoline would be needed to produce the same amount of energy.  

I estimate I'm getting somewhere between 100-300mpg, and, assuming the various energy sources (fossil fuels, nuclear, solar/wind) are roughly equivalent in cost, I'm paying about $1.20/gallon (plus $2.50 for other sources of energy).  At my current usage level,  I anticipate 38 days/gallon, assuming one charge a day.  

Future

So, no, it's not free for the environment, and I'll still have 4 lead-acid batteries to dispose of properly in a few years.  But it's way better than the car I used to own to drive me 4 miles to work and back.  Someone out there made their 4000e solar-powered, which is quite fantastic.  Also, if I one day achieve my dream of having a house that generates more energy than it uses by solar and wind, then my e-bike becomes cleaner still.  (A "4" to the first person that responds to this thread and reminds me what the site was to sign up for all-green energy to your home.)

Anyway, e-scooters are all the rage in Europe - maybe gas prices going up will have the beautiful side effect of Americans becoming invested in efficient, practical electric transportaion too.   What do you think about that?

Hm, maybe my next diary will focus on other feel-good, and thoroughly practical things everyone can do to make life easier and decrease energy consumption/waste creation at the same time.

Thanks for reading this far - I am nothing if not a person who uses way too many words to make their point.  :-)  And Happy Thursday!

Poll

Would you buy an e-scooter?

4%3 votes
19%13 votes
4%3 votes
45%30 votes
15%10 votes
0%0 votes
10%7 votes

| 66 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 27 comments

  •  Anyone remember that green energy (4.00 / 3)

    for your house link?  Bueller?

    War is NOT a preventative measure.

    by demandcaring on Thu May 26, 2005 at 06:07:39 PM PDT

  •  Oh man (none / 0)

    I saw one of these today!  This couple parked in front of my house.   I had wanted to get an eGO, but my scaredy-cat husband said I couldn't get one because it's dangerous...like driving in LA isn't.  Anyway, they were really excited about it and loved it so much, that they actually have 2 of them.

    I currently drive a MINI, though we had looked at buying a TH!NK.  I thought it would be cool to have an electric scooter when I don't need all the car.  Like jaunts to the Dr. or liquor store.  

    Thanks for the review!

    Outta here, I don't deal well with sites that condone racism.

    by fabooj on Thu May 26, 2005 at 06:13:04 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, the Th!nk was cool (none / 0)

      But they don't make them anymore...  Investigated that briefly, myself.

      That's awesome that you saw/noticed/considered buying one - e-scooters seem to fill a very real niche.  I'm amazed that the H2 has caught on, but these haven't.

      Yeah, the eGO is fine -and fun- for what you're describing - just not for heavy use.

      O/T: Driving in LA is rather frightening.

      War is NOT a preventative measure.

      by demandcaring on Thu May 26, 2005 at 06:34:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  TH!NK (none / 0)

        Ford was super stupid about that car.  Down here they were asking for $1200 down and it was going to be like $245/mo to lease the car.  The guy at the dealership said we were the only people to inquire on the car in 3 months and they turned us down.  Why?  Bad credit and our neighborhood was "too" alternative.  I was like, WTF???  When they decided to ditch the program due to "lack of interest", we tried to buy one.  They told us we had to contact HQ and they wanted us to pay close to $15K on the car.    Meanwhile, a friend of our got her car for almost $6K.  

        A lot more people in my neighborhood have gotten electric scooters or are using regular bicycles to get around.  It's like people are finally realizing that gas is really hurting us.  No more just hopping in the car to Trader Joe's...now we ask our neighbors if they're going to go first.  

        Outta here, I don't deal well with sites that condone racism.

        by fabooj on Thu May 26, 2005 at 06:43:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  been thinking (none / 0)

    about buying sometihng like this for a fun run aruond. I live too far away from work for it to be much use for communting (60 miles round trip).

    Also been thinking abuot one of those segways, but they are a bit expensive for what they are.

    We did buy the kids a couple of those electric scooters that are a coulpe of hundred bucks (made in china) a lot of fun, but the battery idnt give very much range at all, a couple of miles at most, so not too much playing on them before each charge.

    I just traded in my F-150 supercrew, because of gas prices and got myself a new Ford Mustang, much better gas mileage and is awesome to drive. Not quite a green machine (actually its yella) but better than the big truck !

  •  I think you're missing... (none / 0)

    The inefficiency in chargeing your batteries, variable depending on how quickly you charge them.

    Energy cost of manufacturing the scooter, getting it to you, and making replacement batteries.

    And, you should count the % representing nuke power as if it were generated by fossil fuel.

    Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
    Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

    by ben masel on Thu May 26, 2005 at 06:18:17 PM PDT

    •  Yeah (none / 0)

      There are a LOT of variables missing, frankly.  But most of those things are really difficult to estimate, and it's not like they're factored into the estimates for gas-powered things like cars, which I'm comparing this to.  

      It's a messy back-of-the-envelope calculation.  As far as nuclear goes - I see your point, but my main concern with the fossil fuels is carbon release into the atmosphere, and as such, I opted not to include nuclear.

      War is NOT a preventative measure.

      by demandcaring on Thu May 26, 2005 at 06:27:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Presuming roughly equal (none / 0)

        manufacturing cost, it drops your average mpg by a lot more than for the petroleum unit.

        Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
        Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

        by ben masel on Thu May 26, 2005 at 07:29:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  One other item to factor in (none / 0)

      is the replacement & disposal costs of replacing batteries ammortized over their life.  But overall, system still is pretty darn good.  A lot of advantages.

      I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

      by beemerr90s on Thu May 26, 2005 at 06:30:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Does it come with a sidecar? (4.00 / 3)

    I'd need a spot to put the kids.

    Well, we're doing our part.  We signed the contract last week to install a solar system on our roof.  On average it should supply about 80% of our energy over the course of the year.

    I'll do a diary on it when it finally gets installed this summer.

    •  Christine (none / 0)

       what does the cost run to get that into an average home? I have been wanting one for years. I have about a 1500 sq. ft. home. Also any links would be a great help. It's 1 am here so I will check back in the morn.
      Thanks!

      "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality." --Dante

      by arkdem on Thu May 26, 2005 at 10:54:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry for the late reply. (none / 1)

        Busy day with the kids today.

        There's a couple factors.  The biggest is, What direction does your roof face?  We're lucky, our roof faces S-SW which is nearly perfect.  Plus, it's not shaded.  Our needs are average so it works out that the system being put it will cover most of what we use.  I said 80% on average but in truth from Sept-May it will be close to a wash.  It's only in June-August when the AC goes on that we're not going to be generating enough.

        My cousin wanted to do it for her house but between all the shade the get, and the fact that her house faces west, it wasn't worth it.

        The total system, with parts, labor and permits is going to cost about $45,000.  Fortunately NJ covers 70% of the cost.  So it's only going to cost us about $13750 or so out of pocket.  I actually confirmed the loan today.

        That's the one thing that's making me a bit twitchy.   Given all of the bad news economic diaries, the last thing I wanted to do is increase our debt load.  But between the reduced electric bill and the income from the green tags we should have the loan paid off in about six years.

        When I got interested in doing this (one night after reading an eviromental diary here on dKos) I just googled NJ, solar power, home or something to that affect.

        Here's the guy we're using Sea Bright Solar

        My email is in my profile, let me know if you have any questions.

        •  Thanks Christine (none / 0)

           Don't worry about a delay in answering I too am usually late replying to some post. My roof is an A frame and the whole back side gets all the morning sun and the front get all the evening sun I only have one Oak tree that shades about 1/5th of the roof but I can fix that ;)
           I am not sure if Ar has any rebate program. I will check the link you gave me. Also I was going to email you but my hotmail has been down for 2 days now so has my daughters' so I thought you might be having problems to.
          Thanks Again for the help!

          "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality." --Dante

          by arkdem on Fri May 27, 2005 at 08:33:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Green energy For California? (none / 0)

    They had fangs...they were drinking blood....They had this look in their eyes, totally animal. I think they were young Republicans. (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

    by wrights on Thu May 26, 2005 at 06:46:58 PM PDT

  •  What's the issue with lead acid? (none / 0)

    I thought those batteries usually get recycled and the lead reclamation process is very efficient.

    Hawkish on impeachment.

    by clyde on Thu May 26, 2005 at 07:01:36 PM PDT

    •  You make a good point, actually. (none / 0)

      From what I can tell, the batteries have a bad rep environmentally because of spills, and the toxic and caustic materials involved.  However, the deep-cycle batteries used in these things have a limited spill risk, because they're "sealed." And if/when recycled, the process is pretty efficient, I guess. (This is what a quick search tells me.  But now it's 7:30, so I'm leaving work. :-) )

      War is NOT a preventative measure.

      by demandcaring on Thu May 26, 2005 at 07:26:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Midwest Renewable Energy Fair (none / 1)

    June 17-19, near Stevens Point, WI

    http://www.the-mrea.org/energy_fair.php

    (ask for me at the Hemp booth)

    Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
    Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

    by ben masel on Thu May 26, 2005 at 07:32:51 PM PDT

  •  Great diary, thanks (none / 0)

    I've begun reading about these, and your links will supply much info. The eGo was recently in a catalog I received, listed at $1,099, and it had as additions front and rear baskets for parcels, as well as a cargo trailer. So probably a cost of $1200 or so with all the doo-dads plus shipping.

    Did you use any of those baskets? Were they good for carrying things? Do you have to wear a helmet?

    The degree to which you resist injustice is the degree to which you are free. -- Utah Phillips

    by Mnemosyne on Thu May 26, 2005 at 07:55:56 PM PDT

    •  Better late than never (none / 0)

      Hey - yeah, the rear cargo baskets are pretty much essential if you want to carry anything ever (and it's very handy to carry what I called an "eGO bag" with allen wrenches and a spare set of gloves, and maybe a bungee cord in it) The front basket and the trailer are both overkill --- I've used the front basket once and the trailer never.

      Sorry about the late reply - I've been at a conference for the last week or so.

      War is NOT a preventative measure.

      by demandcaring on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 10:32:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Nickname (none / 0)

    How about "Gray Ghost? Quiet, slips past you before you realize it's there, no longer haunts gas stations . . .

    The degree to which you resist injustice is the degree to which you are free. -- Utah Phillips

    by Mnemosyne on Thu May 26, 2005 at 08:23:46 PM PDT

Permalink | 27 comments