Daily Kos

On Kerry: We risk our own defeat.

by HadIt

Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:08:02 PM PDT

(An experimental riff on a quote by Laura Roslin.
On the battle-filled diaries of Friday and Monday, and also Americablog Friday and Monday.  And elsewhere, I'm sure.)
-------

This has now stopped being a matter of freedom of expression.  
It isn't political, it's personal.  For all of us.

In the matter of Senator John Forbes Kerry, neither the side that likes him nor the side that dislikes him can let go of arguing so vehemently about him.  

This is mostly because he is our last link to an election which almost overturned the evil now remaining in power.

We've lost perspective.

Under normal circumstances it would just be sad that our separate sides can not leave behind that he was a candidate for president and simply accept him as a flawed person, just like the rest of us.  

But in this situation, after expressing our views, our repeated recriminations have exposed us to resentment from within, as well as to derision from the Right.  

While we battle each other over small differences in opinion, our enemies move relentlessly forward with the sole purpose of crushing us all under their wheels.

How much energy have we spent arguing this issue, energy that should have been spent on more worthwhile foes?  Have we spent enough time repeatedly battering each other (over 1200 comments in at least two diaries this weekend.  Thousands more since January)?

This is becoming unacceptable.

We all know the adversary we face. We are all perfectly aware that this infighting puts both our confederation of thousands and the future of our Nation at risk, just to satisfy our own personal points of view.

Now, if we can live with that, our unity and America don't stand a chance.

We have stated our points of view on this issue.  Everything else is repetition.

Clear your heads.

Tags: (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 56 comments

  •  OTOH, I could be a Cylon. (none / 1)

    I liked Roslin's directness.  So I tried a version here.

    by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:02:46 PM PDT

  •  Horseshit (none / 1)

    I don't want to become them in order to defeat them.

    http://dumpjoe.com/

    by ctkeith on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:08:32 PM PDT

    •  Okay (none / 0)

      I agree with that.
      I didn't realize I said anything like "we must become like them".  In this conversation, I don't give a crap what they are like.  

      But, sure, it is as you say.

      by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:13:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  either way you become them (4.00 / 2)

      1.   by supporting the dem who, in your mind, is too moderate and makes too many concessions.

      or....

      2.  by trashing the dem in question.  just like the republicans.

      I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

      by BiminiCat on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:05:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent, but too late. (none / 0)

    So much vitriol has been spilled over this, I'd say Rove's had some work done for free.

    It'll take some time for the wounds to heal. And not just those of the people who are mad at Kerry.

    by MH in PA on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:12:21 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, I know... (none / 1)

      better late than... never mind.

      It'll take some time for the wounds to heal. And not just those of the people who are mad at Kerry.

      Yeah.

      by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:15:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Do you know what Rove REALLY wants? (none / 1)

      He would love to have Kerry blindly supported by all Democrats, love to have Kerry get the nomination again in 2008 and probably once again run a mediocre campaign and lose.

      Rove doesn't give two shits what anyone on here argues about. I think this is a cheap shot to try to silence gays and lesbians who are tired of Democrats selling them out.

      I don't know how long you've been at Daily Kos but these arguments are a hymnal compared to some of the past blowouts. Nothing that was said in these diaries should have horrified anyone this much. If gays and lesbians daring to speak out about Kerry's intolerance upsets you this much, or anyone else this much, then it's a good thing he didn't win. Every time President Kerry pandered to bigots, the way Clinton did, some homosexual may have been upset. And then time would stop and we'd all be sent to an eternity of hellfire and Pat Boone concerts.

      by JamesB3 on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:13:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No one is talking about blindly supporting anyone (none / 0)

        The two extremes are blind support and blind bashing. It would be nice to get either support or criticism from folks who have their eyes open, is all.

        "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

        by Kerrycrat on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:28:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So people who oppose (none / 0)

          pandering to bigots (and misrepresenting the position of Democrats in Massachusetts) are "blind bashing"?

          What do we owe Kerry, exactly? I voted for him, even though I had my fair share of reservations. What else does he need? Why should he get our support?

          My eyes are wide open. Kerry lost, and he'll lose again if he runs for President. He's lucky to even be in the Senate.

          by JamesB3 on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:40:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  wha? (none / 0)

        If gays and lesbians daring to speak out about Kerry's intolerance upsets you this much, or anyone else this much, then it's a good thing he didn't win.

        The Kerry rant has been going on since January - long before last Friday. there have been thousands of comments about what a bastard he is, any time he did ANYTHING, usually something good.

        In this case, I care very much about his views on gay marriage. But much of the ranting seemed to be from the same people who criticized him for promoting healthcare for kids, being against drilling in Alaska, and any other time he dared to open his mouth.

        It just rankles me how much someone with who consistently rates a 100% voting record with the HRC should be pissed and shat on so completely.

        If he had a record of bigotry, fine.  But an off-the-cuff remark to a reporter IDENTICAL to his comments during the election?  Jesus.

        But see, there I go again, trying to make my case.  sigh.

        by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:49:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't see why people should (none / 0)

          give him a free pass over these extremely disengenous, misleading, and unnecessary comments just because of some "100%" voting record. If you are so knowledgable of these matters you should know that a voting record never tells the whole story. I would criticize anyone, even the only major Democrat I have 100% admiration and respect for, Russ Feingold, if he said those things in public.

          No one is picking on Kerry. I don't know if you think this is some big, bad personal vendetta, but it isn't. I would have been happy to forget John Kerry ever existed. He chose to make these stupid and dangerous remarks. He chose to embolden anti-gay people in MA by giving them ammunition to claim that MA Democrats oppose gay marriage. We are criticizing him because of these self-serving statements, not because he's John Kerry. You are slapping a label on anyone who dares to criticize Kerry, assuming this is part of a big anti-Kerry conspiracy. I haven't said a word about Kerry's views on ANWR, childcare, or whatever else. I said something about this because I was so sick and so tired of a)major Democrats making anti-gay statements and b) so many people at this website justifying those statements and trying to guilt trip anyone who opposes them.

          And he never said anything about his state platform during the election. Nor did he say that most MA Democrats oppose gay marriage. If you're going to get so upset, at least keep track of his real statements.

          by JamesB3 on Mon May 09, 2005 at 07:29:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ok (none / 0)

            No one is picking on Kerry.

            Of Dems in office, only Lieberman gets attacked more.  And he actually DESERVES it.

            You are slapping a label on anyone who dares to criticize Kerry, assuming this is part of a big anti-Kerry conspiracy.

            No sir. You assume too much.

            In fact in the diary, my request was to let  the bludgeoning stop.  From both sides.  Maybe I'm just easily upset by infighting, I don't know.  

            But, oh well.  Never mind that.

            Sure, I have a point of view on this guy and I've trotted it out many times here.  This vitriol started before ANY GAY comments.  If you didn't make such comments before, good for you.  

            Read all those comments.  Since January.  See if alot of people don't have a personal axe to grind.  Many of these comments, though, were from the same people who slammed him over and over since January.  To me it seems like more of the same. Except for all the new people that are rightfully pissed off this time.

            And he never said anything about his state platform during the election. Nor did he say that most MA Democrats oppose gay marriage. If you're going to get so upset, at least keep track of his real statements.

            He said EXACTLY his personal views on gay marriage.  Isn't that what we're upset about.  He said he didn't personally like it and wanted civil unions with equal rights.  I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now, but it's nothing new.  A Boston Globe reporter asked him a question about the platform and he (stupidly) answered it.

            by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 07:45:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Kerry *sure* knows about defeat ... (none / 0)

    as he proved, last November.  The point about his being flawed and human is well taken; however, it implies---mistakenly---that we should "forgive all," simply because he's a fellow Dem, when in fact, it was his strained attempt to present himself as Republican Lite which cost him the election.

    by Spindizzy on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:12:41 PM PDT

    •  forgiving... (none / 0)

      The point about his being flawed and human...implies---mistakenly---that we should "forgive all,"

      Not my meaning, but I see how it can be read that way.  I said nothing about "forgiving" and didn't mean to imply it.  

      Forgiveness is ultimately up to each of us to decide.

      I am more interested in forgiving each other, here.

      by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:18:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Kerry brings this on himself (none / 1)

        Instead of being in fucking louisiana spewing stupidity about gay marriage in order to pretend he's still a national figure he should have been in Mass. doing something worthwhile like telling a cardinal to go Cheney himself.

        http://dumpjoe.com/

        by ctkeith on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:27:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He was in Louisiana speaking about healthcare (4.00 / 2)

          not gay marriage.  He answered to a question from the Boston Globe (local MA newspaper) on the issue of the MA platform.

          He would have been better inspired not to answer, but at least quote the facts straight.

          by votekerry on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:07:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Did I write that? (none / 0)

          Out of my own mouth, you speak.  Fuck him and his Louisiana junket.  What an unnecessary, divisive statement.  Of course, he was "working" the South because somebody told him that's the frontier necessary for a win.  What a pile of shit, because he wrongly assumes the fallacy: Southern=Slow.  He's too much of a politician to win a national election, and my support is long gone not to return.  

          What a shame for such a smart man to lose his speaking voice merely in the name of a vote.

          by busternjake on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:22:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't agree (4.00 / 3)

            He was on his "Louisiana junket" to drum up support for his health care bill. That was worthwhile. And there are those who say we shouldn't concede the South to the Republicans. I do appreciate both Kerry and Dean making appearances there.

            But then, if Dean goes South, we shout "Huzzah", and if Kerry goes South, we shout "Fuck him!" But can have the exact same stance on both the war and gay marriage, and what bounces off of Dean will stick to Kerry like teflon and velcro.

            It's 2005. Too early for anyone to assume that everything someone says is designed to get votes. God knows the public at large will hardly remember.

            "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

            by Kerrycrat on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:33:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You can disagree (none / 1)

              until the cows come home -- as we say...

              I was born in the South and am now past 50.  I spent most of my adult life in SF and am now back in the South in Atlanta.  I know the South, as my family's been here more than 200 years. Southerners are people of conviction and honesty.  

              By virtue of some quirk, suddenly things changed in 2000 & 2002 in virtually all of the Southern states because of something.  

              What caused it?  Propaganda.  Very smart, well crafted, rightwing propaganda.  Nothing more. Southern people are passionate about doing what's right and the thugs capitalized on that trait and manipulated it into something hateful and negative. Georgia had been Democratic since the Civil War until 2002 when the touchscreen voting machines came in, funded by Diebold, and which trumped exit polls which showed the ultimate losing team "winning" by double digits.  

              And we're going to take it back, because good ultimately wins.  I have to believe that.  

              As for Kerry.  My bumpersticker is still on my car as I said the other night.  But my support of him is over.  Done.  IN MY OPINION, he's a career politician more concerned with votes than with speaking from his heart.  My money will go elsewhere next time.

              And Louisiana?  Please.  He can talk all he wants about his health care program and I'll support it. But Kerry is a national figure who knows very well that every time he opens his mouth, his words will reverberate across the nation and the world.  It doesn't matter where geographically he was standing when he said it, nor to whom he said it.  He said it.  And he's a sellout chump for thinking that the palmetto fronds of Louisiana would protect him from repercussions.  

              And on another issue, it is definitely not too early for anybody to assume that what a politician says isn't meant for something bigger down the road.  That's politics.  That's what they do.

              Obviously he's not on my "A" list these days.  He has a valuable voice we all need to hear, but he's wasting it on political positioning instead of using his power to speak his mind and make a difference for all of us at a time when we desperately need to hear a leader like him speak for us.

              by busternjake on Mon May 09, 2005 at 07:23:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I'd forgive all (none / 0)

      if he would just get the hell off the stage already.  He bailed out at the crucial moment to protect his own political future, and now seems a little mystified (as do some of his fans) about why he's no longer admired.  

      It is a total waste of our energies and time to argue about Kerry.  He's well on his way to becoming a divisive figure within the party.  If he gave a damn about the people he shafted on election night, he'd get the hell out of the national spotlight, and stay out.

      Babe, you're just a wave, you're not the water. --Jimmie Dale Gilmore

      by rocketito on Mon May 09, 2005 at 07:32:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not a member of an organized political party (none / 0)

    I'm a Democrat.

    We can mix it up all we want until the primary is over.  Then we must pull together and win.

    I don't give a shit about what the Right thinks.  It's our tradition.

    And there is not such thing as RepublicanLite.  There is only RepublicanHardRight, or haven't you noticed.

    It's not backbiting that hurts us. It isn't ideology that kills us.  What does the damage is disloyalty and pandering.

    -6.00/-7.18

    by TarheelDem on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:21:09 PM PDT

    •  mmm... (none / 0)

      There is only RepublicanHardRight, or haven't you noticed.

      No, I haven't noticed.  What do you mean?

      It's not backbiting that hurts us. It isn't ideology that kills us.  What does the damage is disloyalty and pandering.

      All of them hurt us, I think.

      by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:27:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The public (none / 0)

        The public can tolerate ideological diversity, contrary to Republican assertions.  It's when politicians pretend to be what they are not that the public tunes out.

        Backbiting is a reality of politics, even public squabbles are not that harmful.  What is devastating is when the party says that this issue is important to Democratic values and a party member breaks ranks.

        -6.00/-7.18

        by TarheelDem on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:41:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  RepublicanHardRight (none / 0)

        If a Democrat starts down the path of trying to be moderate with Republicans, they go straight to Zell. They are moved farther and farther rightward in order to appear to be moderate.  There is no position that one can hold in between.  The center, if there ever was one, has disappeared.

        -6.00/-7.18

        by TarheelDem on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:48:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  If you want to win (none / 1)

      You might want to consider pulling together for the next 3 years, and wait til the primaries are a little closer to start fighting amongst ourselves.  Who knows - you might actually accomplish something along the way that actually helps people. And the general public might then realize they ought to support Democrats, because Democrats have gotten something done for them.

      But then, what the hell would I know?

      by MH in PA on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:28:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you? (none / 0)

        You might want to consider pulling together for the next 3 years

        WE ALL might want to consider, maybe?

        Or, you're right, maybe not.  ;)

        by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:31:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nah (none / 0)

          He said it thw way he meant it. This is akin to when everyone wanted the Dean supporters to effectively sign loyalty oaths, then when their guys started losing declared they wouldn't support a party of the "lefties".

          Pulling together = STFU in their book.

          by ElitistJohn on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:55:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I was speaking to the poster directly. (none / 0)

            I consider myself to be "pulling together" with other Democrats now.

            If that sounds "elitist" to you or whatever, sorry. I'm tired and not writing particularly well at the moment.

            But I DEFY you to find anything I have EVER posted that has trashed ANY Democrat* the way people are trashing Kerry here (although not specifically the psot I was replying to), or many of our other Dems at other times.

            Do I expect you to sign some "loyalty oath" and never criticize? Hell no! That's no more productive than the vindictive trashing. But there's a helpful way to criticize, that shares information and builds understanding, and then there are vicious attacks.

            My point is if we ("we", are you happy now) are attacking each other NOW, we're not going to get things done that give voters a reason to vote for us at election time.

            -------
            * possibly excluding Zell, and he isn't a Democrat - don't know why is allowed to call himself one

            by MH in PA on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:21:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Lovely broad brush (none / 0)

            Where did you get it?

            Unity to me means supporting Kerry.

            And supporting Dean.

            And supporting Clark, and Reid, and Hillary et al.

            And having my facts straight before I criticize someone, which means not bashing these people.

            I've had people question my motives in shouting unity, saying that I'm calling for blind support instead, or STFU for my candidate.

            But no. I call for unity because the Bush agenda is 10 times worse than anything our fellow Dems can dream up, and because circular firing squads don't leave anyone standing.

            "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

            by Kerrycrat on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:38:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I was speaking to the poster directly. (none / 0)

          See my reply to ElitistJohn.

          But evidently "we" would have been better, because my use of "you" was misunderstood.

          Sorry, I'm tired.

          by MH in PA on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:23:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry, I didn't mean it as a slam... (none / 0)

            I was keeping with the theme of my post.

            I'm tired too.  

            by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:34:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No prob... (none / 0)

              ... and I really appreciate this diary! (don't recall if I said that yet).

              But EJ's post definitely seemed like a slam...and his point could be fair from a certain reading of my comment.  Your comment helped keep his in perspective for me, actually.

              by MH in PA on Mon May 09, 2005 at 06:38:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It's the Libra in me, I think (none / 1)

                When I see people marching into the extreme-o-sphere, I have this innate desire to coax them back to some kind of balance or understanding.  I think I only do this when things get becomes personal, though.

                Balance doesn't always mean compromise.

                What the Right is now is so extreme that the only solution, IMO, is to pull back hard with all our might - no compromise.  In this view, Kerry's comment is a misstep.  But is he a bigot?  I need more proof than that.

                by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 07:06:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Actually (none / 0)

    It has little to do with being a "last link". JFK the lesser has not been well liked by many around here since the primaries. It was just buried during the shotgun wedding period.

    by ElitistJohn on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:21:12 PM PDT

  •  No you are wrong (none / 0)

    I know that some are focused on personalities - I am only interested in policy.

    My only interest has been to persuade Kerry to change his position - it he did so I would welcome him back with open arms.

    The longer he goes stubbornly trying to 'position' himself, the more he shows he deosn't have what it takes to be President.

    Look at Microsoft - it only took them a week.

    We are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy unless it obstructs interstate commerce. - J. Edgar Hoover

    by tiponeill on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:31:07 PM PDT

    •  Great! (none / 1)

      My only interest has been to persuade Kerry to change his position - it he did so I would welcome him back with open arms.

      That is the most encouraging thing I've heard in a while!  Seriously.  

      I am willing to chuck him if I think he goes too far.  Others are willing to accept him again if he refines or reforms his positions.

      Not everyone has dug their trenches and mounted their rifles in the mud.

      by HadIt on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:36:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well... (none / 0)

    In all truthfulness, I think this site has progressed past the Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean knock-down-drag-out-steel-cage-deathmatch-bloodfests of last year.

    Recovering Intellectual. 12 days stupid.

    by scionkirk on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:32:32 PM PDT

  •  I just hope all the fighting will resolve (none / 1)

    into a group that knows where it is headed. My take would be that Dems need to pick a direction, and let those who don't like that direction go ahead and fall by the wayside. I'm wondering if they wouldn't be stronger in the long run. But I don't suppose politics works that way.

    I think there is some truth to what you say. I still look at him and think about the last election. In some ways, by supporting what he is doing now, I'm continuing in that vein. But I'm sure it probably has something to do with losing the last election.

    He would have been so much better than Bush.

    "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

    by Kerrycrat on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:37:11 PM PDT

  •  asdf (4.00 / 2)

    To a degree, I agree with this diary.  We all know Kerry is a bigot, and he has a lot of blood on his hands for his early championing of this war.  But continuing to pulversize this Ivy League elitist is like kicking a guy in a wheelchair.

    The bottom line is, his political career is over.  He ran a campaign that would have embarassed Dukakis and Dole, and delivered 4 more years to Bush.  The country is suffering because of his incompetence, and the party will not forget.  Just because this melon-head is showing signs of delusion and thinks he might have a chance of being President one day doesn't change the fact that he is nothing more than a lame-duck Senator.

    Forget about the guy.  He's a loser, and there is no use beating a man when he is down.  Ignore him, and let him fade into the sunset.

    by Rally Burger on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:38:00 PM PDT

  •  The uniform right to legal monogamy. (none / 0)

    I agree, my primary interest is in policies rather than personalities.

    What's needed even more though, is to shift the terms of debate.

    The semantic division between the terms "marriage" and "civil union" has become a red herring, an entry-point for a wedge of divide and conquer.  Use this phrase instead:

    The uniform right to legal monogamy.

    I guarantee you that phrase will cross lines and change minds and win.  It will also win with moderate conservatives who believe in a lawful and orderly society of equal rights and responsibilities.  

    Specifically:  

    We are talking about a uniform right, not a "special" right.  "Equal" can be spun into a loaded word, "uniform" cannot.  Think of the word-associations here and you'll start to see what I'm getting at.  

    We are talking about monogamy, a virtue that no one would deny.  This will force the antis to take the position that "gays are incapable of monogamy," which is precisely analogous to the position during slavery when it was illegal to teach black people to read, that "Negroes are incapable of literacy."    

    And we are talking about making the monogamy legal.   What value is any contract if it has no legal validity?  Here the antis would have to claim that extralegal commitments are somehow ethically viable, which in effect is an endorsement of all forms of "cohabitation" or "shacking up."  

    We can win on this one.  All we have to do is shift the terms of debate to the underlying mechanism behind the issue.  

    by G2geek on Mon May 09, 2005 at 05:44:41 PM PDT

  •  FLAWED? (4.00 / 2)

    Nah.   2004 was much too important to write off and accept as the result of a "flawed human being."

    The meme BEFORE the election was that it was the most important election of our lifetime. It was true. A Bush win meant changing life as we know it, and slowly but surely it's being changed.  Who knows just how much of FDR's legacy will be destroyed by the time they get done.

    To this extent we needed a fighter in 2004. Someone who understood the stakes, and was not prepared to lose. Someone who understood the ruthlessness of the opposition and was prepared to fight fire with fire. A man who understood himself, his limitations and knew he had what it took to win, not because he felt it was his turn at bat. Kerry promised us he was that man.

    I never believed that he had the guile or the strength to beat Bush/Rove, but I listened when he said and I quote: "If Bush got nasty, then EVERYTHING was on the table."  And to us, he said, that he was "prepared to take the fight to Bush when the Republicans tried to do to him what they did to John McCain."

    To this day he has not laid one bony finger on Bush. Why? Because he was too worried about pissing off swing voters.

    Ok all that's now behing us, but swing voters still in mind, he's now beating up on gays. Unbelievable.

    We Democrats should really be concerned about the people we nominate to lead us. Who are we, really? What exactly do we stand for?  Joe Lieberman was OUR VP Candidate; John Kerry, who is now denying equality to gays, was our Presidential candidate.  Who's next?  James Dobson?

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.

    by Lords on Mon May 09, 2005 at 07:08:00 PM PDT

  •  Why is everything Kerry does or doesn't (none / 0)

    say so freakin important?  Noone in the real nonblog world is paying any attention except for maybe a few talking heads and no one pays much attention to them, but we all have our panties in a wad over it.

    So what if he is positioning himself for the future.  If he runs, vote for him or don't. If he was so horrible, he is not going to win.  

    I personally don't think he was that horrible, but that is neither here nor there right now.  The election is over folks.  OVER.

    And there is no possibility that there is ever going to be a candidate that we are not all divided over.  I can't even imagine someone who holds all of the same beliefs that we do,because we  don't even hold all the same issues we do. Nothing is both right and wrong at the same time. We are never going to agree.  

    When I vote, I vote for the party that leans in the right direction, that is the closest to the direction the majority of my views lean.  You lean when you vote, because non of the promises ever come true, but the overall atmosphere of the country shifts to the general leanings of the candidate. Happily, that has always been the Democratic party for me.  And I can't imagine ever leaning toward the conservative viewpoint.

    WHY THE HECK DO WE CARE?  He moved from Presidential candidate back to an everyday politician, and we are still talking about him as though there is an election happening tomarrow and he's the candidate.

    Let's not diss anyone who comes close to our leanings ie.. any of our democratic leaders or candidates, because I just don't want to give the other side the satisfaction of watching us do it.  Okay?

    by hopscotch1997 on Mon May 09, 2005 at 07:24:55 PM PDT

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