Fly Flags at Half Staff on July 4, start with tomorrow

So much said about Bush speech last night, and my thoughts wouldn't be saying anything that hasn't been said.  Like many, wondering what I could possibly do today that hasn't already been done in one form or another.

Military family here, with 2 young Iraq veterans facing second deployments.  I stopped putting out the flag in the first year when it seemd that flag waving came to represent something other than what I felt as an American and a military family with loved ones deployed in combat in Iraq.

As the President encouraged us to fly our flags on July 4th, I wondered what would happen if people flew their flags at half staff across the country on July 4th?  A visual representation in support of the soldiers who have died, have suffered utter maiming and the soldiers who will die each day before July 4 arrives.  Wondering then, why wait till July 4th, start now and perhaps the idea will grow enough that by July 4th flags across the country will fly at half staff. [editor's note, by dyingwarriors] changed use of words half mast to half staff

 

•  Excellent idea!!

  by parker02 on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:26:58 PM PDT

  •  Good idea...

    I think people should be doing more, though.  We have a smoking gun!!!  The president of the U.S. lied to congress about going to war and we have proof!!!

    The Downing Street Memos (minutes) should be front and center and in full display.  

    DOWNING STREET
    DOWNING STREET
    DOWNING STREET
    DOWNING STREET

    Get that message across to defeat the Bush propaganda.  This is his achilles heal.

    Bringing the truth to the ignorant is the best thing you can do to help the troops in Iraq.

    by STOP George on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:06:09 PM PDT

    •  I'm on board with Downing Street Minutes; that and

      more; pressure on every front.  As I read the responses, I'm thinking hard about how the imagery associated with our proud flag is a viable front.  More so in light of the recent non-burning of the US Flag which I wouldn't have ever been inclined to do in the first place.

      It could be a 'sensitive' issue; the flag, but then the lives of our soldiers is a very sensitive issue to us, their families.  

      by dyingwarriors on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:11:22 PM PDT

      •  I think the flag idea is a good idea too.

        The half-mast thing (as commented on here) may be a controversial thing, though.

        My idea on using the flag to combat the President's use of the flag is to simple attach a message to it.

        There's nothing to stop you from doing that.

        My message would be:

        DOWNING STREET.

        See image here.

        by STOP George on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:17:29 PM PDT

•  Damned right

  ...I'd been doing this everyday until my flag started to fall apart.  With the House vote on flag desecration, I'm putting out the old flag until it falls to pieces.

  Don't piss 'em off, SHAME them.

  by Randomfactor on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:27:43 PM PDT

•  Cool! but I have a question....

  What a great idea! A way to be respectful and show support of what our flag is supposed to represent, while also being clear that some of us are in "mourning".

  I am wondering, though, if flying a flag at half-mast without some sort of "official" indication to do so violates protocol?

  Can any savvy flag-wavers out there help me out?

  by Boston to Salem on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:31:31 PM PDT

  •  Protocol for flags; I am also wondering, and

    put this out there as a tenative idea, hoping for some discussion.  I'm not certain of the protocols, but these are historic times, as I've heard over and over again, so maybe doing this would be a symbol of the historic times, if it hasn't been done before.

    by dyingwarriors on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:36:25 PM PDT

  •  I've never found a prohibition

    There are all kinds of regulations as to who "shall" be honored by this, but obviously they aren't all-inclusive...besides, as a free speech issue, they can't touch you.

    by Randomfactor on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:02:06 PM PDT

•  Thinking about the 700 soldiers last nite; and the

  required show of politeness.  The visual of them in dress uniform staged for President to deliver his speech.  Thinking about the inauguration and how Bush used the troops and flags in grandstand that was outright embarressing.  

  Thinking it would be a visual representation in the symbol that is significant to our troops, to fly the flag we all respect at half mast as a show of respect to the troops.  

  by dyingwarriors on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:33:49 PM PDT

•  Half Mast

  Your flag should be flown at half-mast upon reliable information that a past or present President or Vice-President has died. It should also be flown at half-staff upon Presidential proclamation.

  Only the president of the US or your state governor can order the flag lowered to half-staff.

  by JasonRoth on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:41:03 PM PDT

  •  TY Jason, so I will call our Governor; if everyone

    then called their state Governors and requested this be ordered, that in itself might make a statement even if the Governors don't order it so...

       It is about respecting our deployed loved ones..how can honoring them be refused?

    by dyingwarriors on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:44:05 PM PDT

    •  Half Mast

      This is a very touchy subject.  You're not only asking for permission to fly a flag at half staff, but it seems like you want an executive order stating that others should do the same.

      I think this is going to be more difficult that you realize, but good luck with it anyway.

      by JasonRoth on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:48:17 PM PDT

      •  Executive Order....hmmmm,

        hadn't thought it out that far, was looking for feedback and getting it which actually helps generate more ideas.  What would be the downside to asking the state Governors to act in courage and do an executive order?    Another no response or non response?  Likely so, but then the act of asking is itself an act of courage.  I'm liking the idea better and better.

        And if I obtain only permission for myself, in respect for my own and their comrades, that would be a good outcome too.

        And if I get a total no or non answer, then it has gone on record with the Governor that this military family has asked.  

        by dyingwarriors on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:52:41 PM PDT

        •  US Flag Code - The Full Section

          FYI - here's the section of the flag code regarding half staff.  It's pretty specific as to the events which would ordinarily necessitate lowering the flag.  Thus, I think a "special executive order" from a governor or President Bush, which could theoretically give only you the permission to fly the flag at half staff, would be needed.

          The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day.

          by JasonRoth on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 02:58:31 PM PDT

          •  Sorry, but

            ...we don't need no stinking Presidential order to honor the war dead.  Period.

            by Randomfactor on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:04:55 PM PDT

          •  TY Jason, the reference is useful...mulling on it.

               At this point, thinking then I will ask the Governor to seek permission of the President to order half staff flags on behalf of the fallen soldiers in the absence of the ability to honor them in the returned caskets being unviewed.  

               I'm quite sure the Governor will not consider such a request, yet I think I will ask...

            by dyingwarriors on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:06:08 PM PDT

  •  I don't believe you're correct.

    ...or, at least, those aren't the ONLY reasons.  In any event, they can't stop us.  Period.

    by Randomfactor on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:04:18 PM PDT

•  No, not half-mast, UPSIDE DOWN!

  Yes, upside down is, according to flag code, a sign of extreme distress. And while it may have originally have been intended for ships, it seems our "ship of state" is in such utterly desperate distress that it is the only statement that really drives the point home.
  In addition, I urge every person to read the Declaration of Independence, out loud, with your friends and/or loved ones on the 4th. We do it every year. (And you'll get chills when you get to the King George stuff!). Makes you think that the more times change, the more they stay the same.
  

  by MA Liberal on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:04:33 PM PDT

  •  I respectfully disagree

    Don't piss 'em off, SHAME them.

    by Randomfactor on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:07:31 PM PDT

•  Who's got a mast?

  by PhillyGal on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:08:02 PM PDT

•  Grammar Nazi says ...

  The correct term is "half-staff." "Half-mast" refers to flags on ships; "half-staff" is for flagpoles on land.

  by Pompatus on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:12:08 PM PDT

  •  Tx for the correction; half staff then, my mistake

      Want to use proper terminology.  I'm an old military brat and heard it referred to that way yesteryear.  Half staff it is then...

    by dyingwarriors on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:23:23 PM PDT

•  Half-mast is as bad as upside-down.

  This is my first commment about any flag, even since the flag burning.

  But this is a disrespect to the flag. Believe me, I would be one of the first to burn my flag if ever an amendment was passed. And mine was flown over the white house in 1991 and presented to me on my Eagle Badge ceremony.

  Of course, I see disrespect to the flag everyday. Its on a bumper sticker, a lapel pin, a t-shirt. Those all dishonor the flag.

  The flag is supposed to only be hoisted on a flag-pole or hung. It should be swiftly raised to show its strength and brought down slowly as a sign of melancholy. To display it half-mast, it should be raised completely then lowered to half and only by presidential decree.

  If you truly want to display a flag but not on a pole or hoisted. Then bunting is what should be used.

  </rant>

  by House on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:27:15 PM PDT

  •  By this standard...

    Bush abuses it's use practically everyday.

    by STOP George on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:33:16 PM PDT

    •  He does.

      And let me clarify.

      I would also want to join in the dissent this july 4th by either half-masting or upside down flying. But the gesture would be hollow because I dont not fly mine everyday.

      Now, if I flew mine everyday properly. And by properly, I mean. Respectfully raised in the morning each morning. Respectfully lowered each night (remember no flying at night unless lit). Then the meaning of half-masting or upside flying would have true meaning in this form of dissent.

      But most people hoist it and forget it. Let it become tattered and faded. They already show disrepect for the flag, if they were to display it upside down or half-masted, I would view it as no different from the way they normally treat it.

      by House on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:40:52 PM PDT

  •  House, TY for your thoughts; and I realize it's a

    touchy and sensitive matter for many, especially for many veterans.  I do Not want to disrespect the flag nor exploit it and I didn't make the suggestion lightly.  I'm a military brat, was young wife to young husband in Army in Vietnam.  I'm now family to 2 young Iraq veterans.  I respect the symbology of the flag and have no wish to abuse it.  In fact I respect it so much that it sickens me to see the President and Commander in Chief so abuse it.  

      I'm not suggesting disrespect, I'm thinking aloud here in this forum about a means to show the deepest respect to the symbol that symbolizes the greatness of our nation and trying to find a way to restore some semblance of respect for what the US flag represents.

     (an aside; folks please, no discussion about whether America is or is not great and the abuses this country has dished out over the years... I know, I know, I know already)

    by dyingwarriors on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 04:02:51 PM PDT

•  Question...

  This real estate guy plunks a plastic flag into our front yard and then leaves a flyer advertising his business on our door. Being patriotic but not liking to be flagified by outside, this action tends to piss my family off. And the flag disappears into the backroom. We have a small stack of them.

  So here's my question:

  Would it be disrespectful to pull the flag from its normal mooring and staple it to the middle of a taller dowl?

  That way it does its half-staff thing without scraping the ground...

  by kredwyn on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 03:58:17 PM PDT

•  Just called Governor's Office. No penalty or

  restriction to fly my flag at half staff on July 4, in fact he welcomed me to do so....

   

  by dyingwarriors on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 04:30:07 PM PDT