Daily Kos

I'm scared to link on a 723 post thread...

by Southern Hope

Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:02:52 AM PDT

....but I really do want to know if Daily Kos is Getting Stupid.

This is a thin diary but a fat request: Could we start a new discussion on what's in that diary? Could a person on a powerful machine with a T-1 line  sneak in there & bring back espionage to us on home computers?  Maybe a Readers' Digest, Big-Type edition?  If we are getting stupider, I need to know.  

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Permalink | 62 comments

  •  I mean.... (4.00 / 4)

    ....I don't want to go into a long weekend without knowing how we're doing.  If we're stupider, now that's something i need to know now.  I'm sure you guys share my self-esteem outlook on this.

    by Southern Hope on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:05:43 AM PDT

  •  I'd love to help (4.00 / 2)

    but I am an idiot.

    by Abbott on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:11:49 AM PDT

  •  Stupid we are not. n/t (none / 1)

    Fear will keep the local systems in line. -Grand Moff Tarkin -SLB-

    by boran2 on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:14:11 AM PDT

  •  yes (none / 1)

    this diary is proof.

    by memberofthejury on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:14:34 AM PDT

  •  Getting Stupid Digest (3.95 / 22)

    Prepared especially for you:

    1.  Fraudsters are stupid and make us look bad.
    2.  How dare you say that!  What about a, b, c and d?  Prove me wrong!
    3.  Aren't you concered that unvetted conspiracy mongering makes us look bad?
    4.  Why are such an intellectual elitist?  You're the problem with the Dem party.
    5.  No, you're the problem with the Dem party.  
    6.  Hey, why did you troll rate me for that?!
    7.  How dare you try to squelch free expression!
    8.  Stop troll-rating people for simply disagreeing!
    9.  Hey, eyes on the ball.  What about voter fraud/suppression?

    I couldn't read any further after that.  Even on a T1 line.

    by KB on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:14:39 AM PDT

    •  I was going to post a serious summary (none / 0)

      But yours is much better.  I didn't wade through all 600+ comments that were present when I looked at it, either.

      by 2pt5cats on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:18:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Many good points were made (none / 0)

        on both sides (I ended up 4'ing people who entirely disagreed with each other), but it got repetitive and degenerated into many personal side-arguments.

        So my summary was firmly tongue in cheek.  A seriously considered summary or highlight diary might be an excellent idea and very helpful.  

        If only to forestall another week of rehash diaries.

        by KB on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:22:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks. (none / 0)

      I fall into the #3, but I'm concerned about #7.  So call me conflicted.

      I did get angry at a few posts yesterday on clearly unfounded rumors about the Oklahoma City bombing, which I found offensive.

      But that's why we have a "reply" button, isn't it?

      Kos isn't getting stupid (er) but some recent events have brought the tin foil parade out.  It would stand to reason that the larger we get, the bigger parade we have.

      by suzq on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 01:04:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'd like to help too (4.00 / 5)

    but I think my computer is republican.  It just ran out of memory.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:15:03 AM PDT

  •  Methinks it's time for an STFU (n/t) (4.00 / 3)

    BUSH: Like a rock...but dumber.
    Stewart/Olberman 2008!

    by mugsimo on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:16:49 AM PDT

  •  Here's a highlight: (4.00 / 2)

    DHinMi (3.26 / 15)

    I find your diary very haughty and uppity.  Let me remind you, there is still free speech in America. Free thinking...free flow of ideas. Our constitution says it's our birthright
    Criticize yourself, not others...lift them up, help them...encourage them.

    Telling people that their "works" aren't good enough...for whom?  YOU?  Are you paying them , or are they just here for your amusement?  

    Maybe you could rethink whose feet we should hold to the fire?  The one who sent our kids off to war and is trying to trick us out of our money. NOT the person who is angry about it and struggling to figure out what is going on. Using his/her voice in here...may be the only place they CAN vent?

    Good and bad...are judgements...they are also relative...good/bad, right/wrong rightousness/evil.

    Maybe you could get off your horse and come walk with us Democrats.

    Do you think people start wars  because they feel they are "wrong"?

    by NeuroticBlonde on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 22:14:57 PDT

    and the response:

    Haughty, Huh?     (3.88 / 34)

    You take this as haughty, do you?  Well, try rising above a poor or working class background without trying to perform up to standards, of speech, of thought, of conduct.  Try succeeding in politics by being sloppy in your thinking and insulting those who disagree with your incorrect ideas instead of listening to the criticism and maybe learning something from it.  Try succeeding at much of anything when you're affilicted with the lethal combination of intellectual laziness and intellectual arrogance if you don't have wealth and connections and privilege backing you up.
    We're Democrats and progressives here, and for the most part we don't have wealth and connections and privilege backing us up in our political struggles.  So we have to be better than the other side.  We have to demand more of ourselves than they're going to put into the battle.  And we have to be a fuck of a lot smarter than them if we're going to succeed.

    You can say demanding a higher standard is "haughty."  I say not demanding a higher standard is either foolhardy and a recipe for impotent mediocrity.  

    And this didn't come about because some people aren't as smart as I want them to be.  This is inspired by people who aren't half as smart as they think they are, telling the rest of us that we're a bunch of fucking morons because we won't believe their bullshit.  

    I'm tired of it.  And based on the reaction of this diary, apparently lots of other people are as well.

    by DHinMI on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 22:32:28 PDT

    Gosh is it a long read, but I am working throught it!

    by NYFM on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:17:58 AM PDT

    •  'nother good one: (none / 0)

      Intellectual laziness (3.72 / 11)

      I am also really tired of seeing it rewarded, yet here you are with a whole slew of 4s and recommends. What's to explain it all?
      Well, for one, the "reality-based folks" can be just as intellectually lazy as the, er, other "reality-based folks" (put the "other" inside the quotes if it makes you feel better).

      Fact is, there are a whole lot of folks out there who share one paradigm: that rational, effective argument must never contain appeals to unproven facts or to egregious behaviour, and certainly never to the combination of the two. I regard all you "reality-based" folk who think this way as simply unable to learn.

      What do you really believe you have to lose by exploring credible, logical theorizing where no concrete, credible evidence exists to counter it? Credibility and coverage in the MSM?

      GET OVER IT. When Hugh Hewitt is the man to help CNN viewers understand what the blogs are saying, it's already all over. I'd love DKos to be cited in a hard-hitting piece on the destruction of trust in American institutions. I won't wait up to see it happen.

      Which, as it happens, has nothing to do WHATSOEVER with the quality of pieces on DKos, but everything to do with the current state of education, media and public discourse in the US.

      For this I give you a "1" because I truly do not believe these diaries to be productive in any way than to make you feel "right". And here I thought non-conformity was a hallmark of the enlightened.

      "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

      by thingamabob on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 22:12:03 PDT

      by NYFM on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:22:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That was one of my favorites (none / 0)

        I gave TMB a 4 for that one.

        Unseen Gore Video

        by TeresaInPa on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:43:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  another I really liked: (none / 0)

          please practice what you preach (4.00 / 22)

          and try not to paint with such a broad brush.
          The phrase "conspiracy theory" is a junk term that does little but cast aspirisions on any kind of revisionist view: no matter how slight or how over-the-top.

          Unfortunately most people fall into two camps:
          a) overly paranoid: never met a conspiracy they did not like
          b) overly skeptical: reject all conspiracies out of hand

          The truth is much, much trickier, and what is needed are discriminating, analytic minds that are willing to take the time that's often necessary to evaluate multiple possible sides of an interpretation of an event or events.

          Are the Downing Street Minutes a conspiracy? The answer is yes: they are clear proof that intelligence was secretly cooked/spun/fabricated/misused in the runup to the war. It was systematic and deliberate.

          What about the Homeland Security alerts? Ridge all but admitted in USA Today he was pressured by the WH to up the warnings for political reasons. That's a kind of psyops on the American public, and it speaks volumes about the attitude of this WH: it lies and decives and tricks as a matter of course.

          Naturally in such a climate paranoia is rife, but we know (a la Deep Throat) that conspiracies DO happen, and that there are lots of secrets in Washington: some small and benign, others big and incriminating, and all, well, secret.

          I too sometimes cringe when certain obvious falsehoods and innuendos are spread, but I also think the conspiracy/anti-conspiracy dichtomy is far, far too reductive: the truth is somewhere inbetween.

          I also think the Bush administration's hyper-secrecy, power politics and clear desire to revive the worst facets of the Cold War's dirty operations are signs that a lot of mainstream historians are often stuck with the surface noise of certain inner sanctums: COINTELPRO actually happened, as we now know. I mean, after all, the Gov classifies more than it declassifies.

          This is a tricky, complex, large topic, but I often feel frustrated by BOTH the tinfoilers AND the anti-tinfoilers: the former for their over-reaches, and the latter for their under-reaches.

          by gnat on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 20:37:17 PDT

          by NYFM on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 11:37:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  yup, another fine post (none / 0)

            gnat is right IMO.

            Unseen Gore Video

            by TeresaInPa on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 02:47:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  'course there are other good ones, too (none / 0)

              Things I've learned today. (4.00 / 4)

              First of all, a heartfelt thank you to everyone that took the time to read and comment on my diary. And yes, I am even talking about DH, Armando, kudos, and all the other posters dedicating themselves to holding fraudsters' feet to the fire.

              At the end of my diary I mention something about how if you don't like this topic then you should ignore it and move on. I would like to retract that statement and instead to invite you, no to beg you, to continue to come and post on all diaries dealing with this topic.

              It's your right and responsibility to push us to think and write more clearly, to bring us back to earth when the dreamers and artists among us seem to be spinning awfully close to the stratosphere of reason. It is a good thing that you make fraudsters angry and passionate, for this is the place where action is born.

              I don't have to always agree with you, it is enough that you help keep my brain limber and open. I come to this site because I am a political junkie with an addiction to thinking.

              Today was like a wet dream come true for me.

              by joliberal on Fri Jun 3rd, 2005 at 19:23:32 EST

              and

              I suspect I may be a fraudster (none / 1)

              but I am rating your comment a "4" because it is EXCELLENT.  I am convinced after spending an insane amount of time on this thread that the way to go is to drop the term "fraud" in favor of "gross mismanagement" and, when indicated, "gross mismanagement, possibly criminal in nature." It's just appalling when you read about the details in Ohio how naively trusting some well-intentioned election officials were. That's one reason why I am a fraudster of sorts: I want those people to be alerted to the possibilities and to their responsibilities.

              "The American people now understand we have a problem." George W. Bush, Galveston, Texas, April 26, 2005
              by BornOn911 on Fri Jun 3rd, 2005 at 16:53:03 EST

              take the ones above and these and you get the gist...

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by DemFromCT on Sat Jun 04, 2005 at 09:15:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  I'm finding (4.00 / 3)

    stupidity very relaxing. I better go cut some brush lest I comepletely veg out.

    Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

    by Miss Devore on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:24:52 AM PDT

  •  Here's the Cliff's Notes: (4.00 / 9)

    "Could we please stop accepting rampant speculation as fact?"

    "No, you're a jerk.  Troll.  Go suck Rove's cock, we'll save the country.  Now let me take everything you said and twist it until logic begs for a quick death to escape the torture."

    That's about it.

    "Raybin is not a lying maniac. I've found this person to be an extremely clever and devious lying conartist, but never a maniac."--RElland on Daily Kos

    by Raybin on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 10:41:40 AM PDT

  •  D HinMi-- (none / 0)

    Why do you hate America? <snark>

    ...the White House will be adorned by a downright moron...H.L. Mencken

    by bibble on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 11:03:34 AM PDT

  •  Well I was stupid this morn (none / 1)

    I even got Friedman and Krugman mixed up. Then in trying to apologize to everyone on the thread I was soo embarrassed I became incoherent.
    Do I win the Kos award for stupid comment of the day,month or year?
    Everyone forgive me Please.

    "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality." --Dante

    by arkdem on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 11:13:54 AM PDT

    •  If You Thought You Were Stupid... (none / 1)

      ...than you're out of running for any award for most stupid comment.  Those can't go to anyone who acknowledges stupidity, either real or immagined.  

      The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

      by DHinMI on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 11:17:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'll forgive you when you give me back (none / 0)

      my wallet!!!

      </end poor humor>

      If America can look the other way when Bush bankrupts America's future fiscally, economically, and spirtually...well, we can overlook your small problems.

      What would Jesus Do? He would impeach Bush.

      (-6.75, -3.85)

      by mapKY on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 11:17:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Funny (none / 0)

        you should say that. Yesterday I did find money on the floor of a dept store. $350 in a money order and $70.00 in cash all rolled up. The store mgr. I gave turned it in to said she'd be able to track the owner through the name on money order. Was that You?
         I am going to hide out at C&J for the rest of the day now.

        "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality." --Dante

        by arkdem on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 11:26:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, I don't carry cash anymore (none / 0)

          My wife bought me this neat little wallet that only holds credit cards.  It says yourACM.com on the back.  Cash is so yesterday.  Now that I think about it keeping cash on hand might be a good thing because if Bush succeeds in destroying America you'll need quick access to cash when there is a run on the banks.

          What would Jesus Do? He would impeach Bush.

          (-6.75, -3.85)

          by mapKY on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 11:31:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You're not the only one (none / 0)

      by suzq on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 01:07:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There is someone dancing in my parking lot right (none / 0)

    now.  

    There's no conspiracy in that.  I have proof (pic on me cell phone) but I shouldn't have to always prove myself to you demanding Kossacks (DHinMI).  

    Wow, honest to God Backstreet (could be any boy band I guess) moves going on in my parking lot.  

    I don't think everything works upstairs but she really knows the moves.

    Also, that makes two trucks now that have honked since typing this.

    What would Jesus Do? He would impeach Bush.

    (-6.75, -3.85)

    by mapKY on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 11:26:24 AM PDT

  •  Then there was this informative......... (none / 1)

    string where one of the people I think of as a syncophant went around giving someone zeros on all their posts

    Oh yeah, here's a zero

    for that have a zero

    blah blah blah ....ZERO

    etc....

    It was fucking performance art man!

    Unseen Gore Video

    by TeresaInPa on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 11:40:23 AM PDT

  •  dKos is getting (none / 0)

    as stupid as the economy is going gangbusters.

    just depends on where you look.

    Now, back to listening to Hot Tuna

    The time for action is past. Now is the time for senseless bickering -- My T-Shirt

    by Frankenoid on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 12:11:16 PM PDT

  •  Talk Soup (none / 0)

    Thanks for the entertaining and somewhat informative summaries, guys.

    Just as a note, if you hide the ratings completely, your computer might have an easier time with the huge threads. At home I have a slow connection/computer and so as soon as a thread hits a certain amount of posts I only enter it with the ratings switched off (slip into a small diary to do the switch -- it's like Superman and the phone booth).

    I could probably handle it at work but I just couldn't be bothered. I'm glad to be all caught up on the stupidity -- er, well, you know what I mean.

    by Helen in MD on Fri Jun 03, 2005 at 12:38:50 PM PDT

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