Daily Kos

Gay Teens Executed in Iran: Disturbing Pictures

Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 07:22:49 AM PDT

Two gay teenagers were executed three days ago in Iran on July 19. This diary yesterday presented some of the story and offered the pictures.  The present diary again provides those pictures for those who missed the diary yesterday, offers some information about these state sanctioned murders, and provides some suggestions about protesting to the Government of Iran and our own government.

I never have asked for a recommendation for a diary before.  I ask you to recommend this diary for those boys who were murdered by their government three days ago for the crime of being gay. These boys are crying to me from their graves.

Reporter Doug Ireland has the story on his blog:

Two gay Iranian teenagers -- one 18, the other believed to be 16 or 17, were executed this week for the "crime" of homosexuality, on July 19. The two youths -- identified only by their initials as M.A. and A.M., were hanged on July 19 in Edalat (Justice) Square in the city of Mashhad in north-eastern Iran, on the orders of Court No. 19. The hanging of the teens was also reported by the National Council of Resistance of Iran.

I am utterly aghast.  These boys are so young.  With the ropes around their necks, they still seem so nonchalant, but the second photograph makes apparent the depth of their grief.

The links at Ireland's site have stories that report that the executions were sufficiently horrifying even to people in Iran that the executioners had to hide their identities with masks.

This is a crime against humanity.  We cannot bring these boys back to life.  The injustice against them is complete, total, and irrevocable.  But in the memory of them, please take a moment to write a letter of protest, send an e-mail that communicates your disgust, launch a fax against the horror perpetrated by these murderers against such young people.

The Interest Section of the Islamic Republic of Iran in the United States has a web site.  They provide requests@daftar.org as an e-mail address.

You can write and fax:

Iranian Representative
Interest Section of the Islamic Republic of Iran
 2209 Wisconsin Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20007

Tel: (202) 965-4990
Fax: (202) 965-1073

You may write, telephone, or fax the Iranian ambassador in Canada:

Ambassador Seyed Mouhammad Ali Moosavi, Embassy of Iran, 245 Metcalfe St., Ottawa, Ontario .K2P 2K2 Canada Telephone (OO1-613- 235-4726, 233-4726; Fax, 233-5712

Maryscott O'Connor has some other suggestions for action over at her new blog.

[Update] slw0606 reports below in the thread, "One little known fact is these boys were 'accused' of raping a 13-year-old boy at knifepoint." I agree with slw06006 who writes, "However, I have my doubts about their actual crime. They may have been having consensual sex with this 13-year-old boy, if they did anything with him, and one can debate if that is a crime." Indeed, it seems odd that no one who has read the reports in Farsi has reported that detail of the story.

Let's imagine that the worst is true, something that may be impossible to know given conditions in Iran. Two boys 14 and 16 rape a 13-year-old at knifepoint. Even in the most blood thirsty states in our country, they would not get the death penalty. But this cover is way too easy. Consider these facts:

1. OutRage reports that Iran has killed more than 4,000 gay men and women since 1979.

2. Pictures finally leak out and horrify the world.

3. Guess what, out of the 4,000 they have killed, these two boys were malicious rapists.

The story is just too convenient. Indeed, as Doug Ireland suggests in the above linked blog, "The Iranian authorities are putting out a cover story that the two boys had participated in the rape of a 13-year-old, but OutRage affirms from its sources that this accusation is a smokescreen for inhuman conduct and is without foundation."

[Further Update] One more note, and another reason that this story is important. OutRage reports: Three other young gay Iranians are being hunted by the police, but they have gone into hiding and cannot be found. If caught, they will also face execution.

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Permalink | 201 comments

  •  I beg for the recommendation of this diary (4.00 / 43)

    I am so utterly aghast at this crime.  I really would be grateful were there a loud outcry that the Government of Iran hears.  The only way to make that happen is for people to know what they did.

    Guess what. Kossacks continue to be very rude. I am for Obama, but I'm not a Kossack.

    by DCDemocrat on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 07:19:15 AM PDT

    •  This is awful (4.00 / 2)

      Thank you for alerting me to it. I am ashamed of our media, which did not tell me about this, and I get a pretty healthy dose each day at the gym. Spread the outrage and the grief- they are really the same thing.

      "I guess this is what you get when you elect leaders ideologically committed to the notion that government isn't good for anything."- Tom Tomorrow

      by A Ball of Lint on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 09:53:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  These are tragic pictures. (4.00 / 3)

    And that cop with the hat in the last photo really looks like the prison captain in Midnight Express, does he not?
    You wonder how many of the killers in the pictures are themselves gay...
  •  where is the outrage from w and religeous nuts? (4.00 / 5)

    huh? oh, i guess they think that is the right thing to do? (snark question) but in all seriousness, the question is still in my mind and i see nothing in our lapdog media. they are too busy yapping about reality shows and that girl missing in aruba. oh, how far can this once great country slip?
    •  Snarky, maybe, but (4.00 / 4)

      in fact, the Dominionist wing would probably not see anything wrong with it (except that the Islamofascists are ahead of us in this respect).
      •  Absolutely correct (4.00 / 4)

        This is what we can look forward to if the Christo-Republican Party continues its march toward domination of our country.

        They are applauding this, I'm sure of it. And before you tar me for reactionary blindness for even suggesting that, just think about the signs reading 'God Hates Gays' that these people carry outside the funerals of boys like Matthew SHepard.

        Where is the outrage?

        Not to be found in this White House.

        •  To be fair (none / 0)

          Fred Phelps' bunch is a different type of cockroach from the Christo-Republicans. I checked out the Fred Phelps entry on Wikipedia and was horrified. He is more than just another misguided zealot. I couldn't find one redeeming quality about him in that entry. He was too crazy for Bob Jones University, if you can imagine that.
          Not that the Falwelloids don't agree with him, if only to a lesser extent....

          Fritzburgh An'at--Politics, Culture, and Whimsy from a Chipped Chopped Mind

          by Bob Quixote on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 12:42:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes... (4.00 / 3)

            Phelps is a "let's simply burn them alive" kinda gay hater, whereas Falwell et. al. are more of the "humane, lethal injection" sort of folks.  

            Sponge Bob, Mandrake, Cartoons. That's how your hard-core islamahomocommienazis work.

            by Benito on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:29:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  give me a break (3.00 / 2)

          Show me Christians that are wanting to execute gays.  These muslims are actually doing it.Get a fucking clue and condemn this tragedy, dont spin it for your own personal satisfaction.
          •  Show you? (4.00 / 5)

            OK.

            If you've forgotten about him, his name is Reverend Fred Phelps of the Westboro Bapist Church. Indeed... this guy is fringe, but his views are rapidly becoming more mainstream with  many gay-hating christian wingnuts out there. And it doesn't help to have a president and one of our major political parties demonizing gays every chance they get.

            Just remember, Hitler was a fringe wingnut as well... just like Phelps. And I don't have to tell you what happened with him. Or do I?

            View his site (if you can stomach it) here.

            •  Just don't blame Christ (none / 1)

              This is 100% contrary to all his teachings (the four Gospels).

              Love your neighbour. Don't judge. Forgive. Turn the other cheek. Care for the poor and the outcasts. Blessed the meek. Etc etc

              Conservatism = greed, hate, fear and ignorance

              by Joe B on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 05:38:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Donsn't make sense (none / 1)

                I hae never seen some many "straight" men fixated on what I do with my gentials.  Seriously people, why are straight men thinking about what gay people do?  I can never figure that one out and why they are so concerned.
                •  Self hatred (none / 0)

                  Latent homosexuality exists in every man and woman.

                  They hate the part of themselves that might have once awakened in a tent next to their best friend and found they were aroused by the nearness of a warm body. This, when coupled with the societal hatred attached to being gay (society needs its villains), causes men to act out and terrorize those who are in fact comfortable with their sexuality.

                  And to the poster above who accuses me of turning the Iranian hanging into "my" cause... I can only shake my head at your ignorance. Do you think this is the first time an Islamic nation has executed gay men? That I have just suddenly become aware of homophobia thanks to the AP finally printing this story?

                  What kind of proof do you need to see that this is EXACTLY what this administration would do if unfettered? How many times do you think Bush has winked or looked the other way or made fag jokes with leaders of oil-rich nations whose moral codes define homosexual activity as worthy of death?

                  Rove/Cheney would do it in a heartbeat merely to gain political support from their fucking base.

                   

              •  Then where are (4.00 / 2)

                the other Churches condeming this hatred?

                Aside from groups like the UCC...they seem pretty few and far between.

                Sponge Bob, Mandrake, Cartoons. That's how your hard-core islamahomocommienazis work.

                by Benito on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:32:12 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I don't (none / 0)

                However, many of his followers seem woefully ignorant about his actual teachings.
    •  why would they be outraged (4.00 / 7)

      The Hannity/Limbaugh/Coulter/FreeRepublic crowd are only a few steps away from this kind of thing.

      They know it's "not publicly acceptable" in today's America to advocate for the public hanging of gays, but you know as well as I that more than a few of their followers would vote 'YES' for it, without a moment's hesitation, in an anonymous voting booth.

      •  I love how (none / 1)

        the FR/Hannity/Coulter/Limbaugh crowd gets wood over atrocities like this, then turns around and says that the perpetrators are evil, not because they murder children for nebulous reasons, but because they aren't Christians. Just who do those twits like?

        Fritzburgh An'at--Politics, Culture, and Whimsy from a Chipped Chopped Mind

        by Bob Quixote on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 12:36:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Brutal dictator, must invade, takeover oil...n/t (none / 0)

      Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers

      by groggy on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:42:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  in this case (4.00 / 3)

        I'm sure the pat robertson / Focus on the "family" / 700 club / dominionist / ashcroft / coulter / limbaugh wing of the GOP would actually praise this behavior and claim Iran was on the right track.

        THEN invade for the oil.

  •  Recommended (4.00 / 4)

    Thank you for covering. God help us.
    •  It is so mind numbing (4.00 / 2)

      I have been e-mail the link to the Ireland article to people that I know since last evening.

      Guess what. Kossacks continue to be very rude. I am for Obama, but I'm not a Kossack.

      by DCDemocrat on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 07:52:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks! (4.00 / 2)

        Thanks DC for your call to action on this and great ideas and links.

        I had the same reaction you had when I posted my diary on the subject.

        It is beyond disturbing!

        •  I am going to take a guess here (none / 0)

          and say that the 13 yr. old that they are (were) accused of raping was the son of some official - was NOT raped, but consenting - and rather than the prominent family face the 'humiliation' of a gay son, the two boys above were executed.

          That's how things work there.

          They've executed women there who have been raped - executing them for infidelity, and allowing the man to live.

          Blogging locally, acting globally 4&20 blackbirds

          by jhwygirl on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:56:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  A harsh reminder (4.00 / 4)

    of what hatred and prejudice lead to.
  •  Kinda makes you wonder (none / 1)

    whether that's what the USA will look like in a few years.

    Maybe not; I suspect the debate will be whether to go high-tech or to follow Leviticus faithfully and execute by stoning.

    •  There are four ways (none / 0)

      in which this execution could have taken place. Hanging by far was the most humane thing for this most inhumane act. Compared to the other options, death came quickly for these two. Not that this is any consolation.

      Those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither. (Paraphrasing B. Franklin)

      by p a roberson on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 07:50:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hanging is not always a quick death (none / 1)

        Or a painless one.  If the drop isn't far enough, or the rope tied right, a long, slow strangling death results.

        It's better than stoning, but not by much.  A public lynching also involves a lot of different, psychological pain as well, for more than just these two victims.

      •  This doesn't look like a long drop hanging (none / 0)

        This is just so sad.

        Notice the final position of the knot at the back of the neck on the guy on the left.  If the executioner was doing a proper long drop hanging, one that breaks the spinal cord, it would be positioned to the side.  What they are doing is a short drop which strangles the person.  

        And if the person is slight of build or young like these guys, short drop hanging can take from 6 minutes to 30 minutes to a botch.  As an example, according to reports I've read, Ken Saro Wira, the Nigerian activist, was hanged with a slow drop and they botched it 4 TIMES.  He suffered for close to 30 minutes it to hang him.

        Where is the Scarlet Pimpernel when we need him?

      •  there is no silver lining or solace (4.00 / 4)

        or anything not horrible about this. i'm not trying to pick on you- i believe it is in all of ours nature to try to find such.
      •  I agree with all of you. (none / 0)

        Compared with being split in two by a sword (Not beheading), stoning, or being dropped off a cliff, I truly hope that these two kids didn't suffer much.

        The fact that these two kids were executed pains me deeply and it just reinforces my thoughts about so called civilized religious societies where things like this happen. The sad thing about this particular case is that it isn't unique. What is unique about this is that we know about it. Usually families will conduct the honor killings in private and will not be spoken of outside of the family. I believe that these two kids were tortured and were willing to confess to anything, and as a result they were hanged for it.

        Those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither. (Paraphrasing B. Franklin)

        by p a roberson on Mon Jul 25, 2005 at 03:17:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Amazing it was not long ago when it did (none / 0)

      It is amazing that lynchings were common in the USA as recently as the 60's and our government refuesed to act, even though it was public knowledge.
    •  my mind flashed right to _the handmaid's tale_ (none / 1)

      by margaret atwood. highly recommended reading for these times...

      "i am outside of history. i wish i had some peanuts; it looks hungry there in its cage. i am inside of history. its hungrier than i thot." -- Ishmael Reed

      by buffalobreath on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:38:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  En route to the hotel in Teheran (4.00 / 3)

      when I was nine, 1964, the Embassy guide who welcomed us at the airport piloted our driver through a zigzig detour of dusty, narrow, busy streets. Snickering and exclaiming, he explained to us that Pahlavi Boulevard was impassable, as some big hangings had commenced that day, and might still be in riot.

      Words to this effect: They don't do it here snap, like they do stateside. They drag the guy up slowly like on a pulley. Sometimes they'll hand the rope to the crowd. They don't let the bastard pass out right away; the mob yells to drop him back to ground if he seems to be going too easy. Even afterward, there is a lot of partying and it's better to avoid the area.

      Followed by rationalizations, intoned concurrence that only severe measures work here. Then other warnings. Especially the water. I hadn't even seen a faucet yet, and already I was sick.

  •  Fucking Barbarians (4.00 / 4)

    asdf
  •  We ought to several all relations with Iran, (none / 0)

    get a UN resolution passed condemning them for human rights violations, and impose the harshest possible sanctions on them.
    •  we don't have any formal diplomatic relations (none / 0)

      And furthermore, eliminating all communication with a nation is rarely the best way to solve a problem as heinous as this one.
      •  What do we do,then? (none / 0)

        Another invasion?

        I'm not sure any kind of constructive engagement is going to work with a society that utterly backwards.

        •  An invasion will only make things worse (4.00 / 2)

          Sure, some women are no longer wearing burkas in Afghanistan, but that's only in Kabul and only in a very limited capacity.  If a society is not interested in reforming itself, reform will never take place.  If Americans march into Tehran and start dictating laws to the Irani populace, things will only be worse in the long haul.  If a population doesn't see that lynching young men is not in its interest, it's hard to imagine how the American stonewalling or invasion would have any positive effect on this mindset.
          •  But Iran is ready for reform (4.00 / 3)

            The sad thing is that Iran is ready for reform.  If there was a properly free election in Iran tomorrow the current ruling clique would be out on their arses quicker than you could say boo.  Iran had 50 years of parliamentary democracy until your country and mine overthrew Mossadeq in '53.  Ever since then things have been awful there.

            Going in tough on Iran is not going to work.  Iran has just about the most longest consistent record of independence as a nation in the world.  The current nuclear crisis has been a PR coup for hardliners there.

            To those of us lucky enough to live liberated gay lives, this is a hammerblow reminder of the price with which our freedom was bought.  Public persecution - and it was this bad in the West at one time - eventually turned too many stomachs.  I hope that in Mashhad and Tehran, some more stomachs have been turned by these disgusting pictures.

        •  I was waiting for that (none / 0)

          This is exactly how the right will spin this.  We need to invade to free the gays from those barbaric ragheads, yadda yadda... Oh yeah and they're building nukes too.

          Seriously, there are lots of countries that do shit like this.  How about that woman who was going to be stoned for adultery in, where was it Sudan?  Send in the troops?  Chinese atrocities in Tibet? Start bombing Beijing?

          Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."

          by Event Horizon on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:51:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hmm . . . (none / 0)

            I doubt that "They're executing minors!" and "They're executing homosexuals!" will inspire Middle America to go to war against Iran.  

            Jeff Gannon already has the right-wing spin: Hypocritical liberals love Iran so much, they won't complain when the Axis of Evil executes "one of their own."

            •  Gannon (none / 0)

              Jeff Gannon already has the right-wing spin: Hypocritical liberals love Iran so much, they won't complain when the Axis of Evil executes "one of their own."

              That's actually what I meant and is why I put the "oh and they're making nukes too" thing in.  They will segue from this back into their real reasons (well their real made-up phony bullshit reasons) for wanting an attack on Iran. Whenever a liberal says we should not attack Iran now the winger will come back with how hypocritical the liberal is since the evil Mullahs execute gays.  Having Gannon as the mouthpiece for this is perfect.

              Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."

              by Event Horizon on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:17:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Support Iranian dissidents (4.00 / 3)

          An invasion is neither wanted nor feasible at this point.

          The "constructive engagement" is a moot point as the US indulges in similar relationships with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, both of which equal if not surpass Iran on the human rights abuse scoreboard. These abuses haven't stopped the EU from milking Iran for all its worth in trade since the Khatami era.

          The only real option is to voice (and actually provide) support for the majority of the Iranian population that opposes the Islamic Republic. Anything short of that is useless chatter.

          Correct me if I'm wrong, but a major Iranian dissident and human rights activist has been on a hunger strike for a complete month, and it fails to make any sort of headline here. Major clashes are also happening in Iranian Kurdistan these days. There's a lot more going on in Iran than these hangings, which if anything, have become quite banal over the course of the past 26 years if you'd care to look back.

    •  Kinda disagree (4.00 / 25)

      Look, I'm afraid that the same thing will happen here sooner or later, because I'm gay and I hear hate speech coming at me all the time from the assholes in charge of this country. I can't even imagine what it would be like.

      I am NOT defending the shitty government of Iran, but I WILL defend their people. My gut tells me that isolating Iran would trigger a deepening of the slide into sharia that these people are being subjected to. Persia is far older and smarter than the ridiculous pathetic mean-spirited, bigoted and chauvinistic so-called "islamist" movement. We need to get the place wired up so they can start talking again to the outside world. There is a huge progressive movement in Iran, and a TON of really brilliant people writing books and making movies, and I just KNOW that they are even more horrified by this than we are. These people need our support, not isolation.  

      McCain is a Chode.

      by dnamj on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:31:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ditto that (4.00 / 2)

        This is my opinion too.  The only way we're going to change anyone in the backwards parts of the world is to get them on the net and get them talking.  When they see that people they meet and talk to are normal human beings,  they will have that shift in their thinking.

        Don't drop a bomb,  drop a laptop.

        Republicans are men of narrow vision, who are afraid of the future. - Jimmy Carter

        by kidfury on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:34:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Damn, (none / 0)

        you took every last word out of my mouth.  Have a 4.
      •  Too True (4.00 / 2)

        One little known fact: the hardliners are in power only because of Bush Saber rattling. The only thing they have to promote their ideology is that "We are being attacked on all sides by the Americans." That will always win them votes (as in the 80's when it was literally true) and stifle the beleagered reform movement.
        •  Clerics (none / 0)

          The conservative clerics eliminated great numbers of reform candidates. While the public was becoming somewhat disgruntled with the reform politicians due to their inability to reform much, this is not fundamentally Bush's fault - it's the clerics within Iran who have done everything they can to stifle reform and castrate the reformers, culminating in the outright elimination from the ballots of any candidates who oppose their power.
          •  Respectfully, that's a Myth... (none / 1)

            perpetuated by the Neocons. The fact is that of all the candidates eliminated none was polling even 1% and indeed no one demanded their reinstatement. The reformists were rallyed behind their candidate (Who was allowed to run) and they still lost. Two of the three reformist candidates who were running were the most popular reformists in the entire country, and they didn't make it to the run-off. This is not the crux of the problem. No country can conduct fair elections with over 1000 candidates running. In the US there's a money primary that eliminates them, but in Iran there's no primary and constitutionally the guardian council is created for this process.

            You have a point that the country was becoming disgruntled with the reformists, but I don't agree that it's not Bush's fault. I'm not saying it's only his fault either, but his posture toward Iran is key to Iranian politics.

            If you take a look at the late Clinton years, that's  when the reform movement had it's greatest success and popularity. This was because the conservative and many moderate elements of the Iranian public were not in mortal fear of their country's existence. It was only after the Axis of Evil speech that the reformists started "failing" and this is because the Mullahs were saying "We can't liberalize while America is preparing to attack us." And that seriously resonated with most Iranians who as a result stopped supporting the reformists and frustrated their supporters.

            •  Universal myth? (4.00 / 2)

                So Iranians share with Americans (and probably most other societies) the illusion that a "hardline" government is better at "protecting" them, when the truth is just the opposite.

                Lakoff is right. A strict-father worldview, on the whole, is toxic to humanity.
                 

              "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

              by Buzzer on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:07:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Exactly.. (none / 0)

                And Noam Chomsky predicted the same thing: "Violence always benefits extremists on both sides."

                But the myth I was referring to was that "Iranians wanted a more moderate government but the Mullahs disqualified the moderate candidates."

                As if to say, the outcome would've been different had there not been disqualifications. There's no evidence to suggest that.

      •  Not a slide into Shariah (none / 0)

        Iran has had Shariah since '79.  If anything, until about 2 years ago, Iran was sliding out of Sharia before the recent hardline backlash.  The Mullahs hold on power is far from secure, although foreign threats and chaos next door in Iraq and Afghanistan helps them with the Middle Iran anything-is-better-than-anarchy vote.
    •  there's only one thing we can do (none / 1)

      I think the consensus around here that an invasion by the Bushmen is a cure worse than the problem, and I rather suspect that even the average gay Iranian would agree.

      As has been pointed out elsewhere, this is business as usual (anybody know of exceptions?) in ALL the Middle East oil-producing nations.

      All we can do to these governments is stop buying oil from them, and the only way we can do this and survive the experience as a nation is to replace fossil fuel oil, and because global warming is for real, the replacement also has to be eco-friendly. (any biofuel qualifies... for the people who've fallen for the hydrogen hype, hydrogen is a greenhouse gas, too)

      However, that should be enough. It takes LOTS of money to pay for political repression.

      Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

      by alizard on Sat Jul 23, 2005 at 02:27:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I Agree (none / 1)

    As a gay man fighting religious extremism, and who also put this pointing on my blog Daily Speech I was viserally affected by this story and the pictures.

    One little known fact is these boys were "accused" of raping a 13 year old boy at knifepoint. If that is true, they should be punished, but NOT by the death penalty.

    However, I have my doubts about their actual crime. They may have been having consentual sex with this 13 year old boy, if they did anything with him, and one can debate if that is a crime.

    The posting on my site, gotten from Andrew Sullivan's site also talks about several gay leaders in the UK who have been targeted for death by Muslim fanatics.

    Steve Wild

    •  Yesterday's post (none / 0)

      indicated that they would've been only 14-16 when the crime supposedly occurred, and that the molestation charges weren't part of the original inquiry; they were added much later after a tortuous confession extraction -- so who knows if it was true.

      Visit RemoveRepublicans.com and follow every 2006 Senate race.

      by AnthonySF on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:06:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I had not heard that story (none / 0)

      and rape is a monstrous crime.  This story says they were lashed 228 times. A prison sentence would have been sufficient were rape proven.  

      Guess what. Kossacks continue to be very rude. I am for Obama, but I'm not a Kossack.

      by DCDemocrat on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:18:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  DDemocrat (none / 0)

        As i mentioned in another comment, it does bug me that you didn't include that in your story. Trust me, i sympathize with the heart in your throat disgust and outrage of this story, but we have something like a duty to put the whole story out there. That whole story may be that the sexual assault charges are a smokescreen...I don't know. Hopefully thhose reporting it can get some more solid info.

        Strength and grace to you, I say feeling a bit too New Age, but fuck it. Strength and grace we need.

        Today's Special: Chickenhawk, slow-baked in its mother's basement.

        by Earl on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:59:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That has stood out (none / 0)

      to me. When i first saw this story on TalkLeft, and repeated here, there is no mention of the molestation charge. In putting out an outrage story about this while ignoring that is just bad reporting and seems almost misleadinng. assaulting a 13-year-old should be punished, not like this, says I, but it should.

      One of the stories has said that 'sources" have found the sexual assault charge a "smokescreen," but why would I believe that source, other than because I want to?

      That being said, the sick feeling I have for these boys is no less, and the laws that are listed here no less revolting.

      One other thing that strikes me: Is the outrage cultural? Heinous punishments for simple crimes have been the standard in many parts of the world, the Muslim world the most prominent in my mind, for ages. Steal--whack off a hand; deal drugs in Bali--get executed...on and on.

      Is the outrage cultural outrage?

      Anyway, I'm sick to my fucking stomach over these pictures.

      Today's Special: Chickenhawk, slow-baked in its mother's basement.

      by Earl on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:19:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  BTW (4.00 / 2)

    You know this is probably the far right's wet dream.  Maybe we should ship all those fuckers to Iran and let the Iranians deal with the infidels as they will.
  •  I'd like to hear more about this (none / 1)

    According to the story I read, they were convicted of sexually assaulting a 13 year old boy.  It's one thing to punish someone for being gay, another entirely to punish them for rape.  Not that I necessarily think that the punishment was appropriate in either case, but the reasons for being offended are different.  If they were actually hung simply for homosexual activity, then that is absolutely abhorrent.  If they were hung for rape, then it becomes a matter of judging the use of capital punishment in different societies.  

    It's kind of funny, but what offends me the most about this (besides the idea that they may have been killed because they were gay) is the fact that they were flogged first.  What kind of sadistic society does something like that?  Torture, then kill, a minor.  Actually, there is a lot to be offended at even if they were hung for rape instead of simply for being gay.  But it does take it over the top if they were hung for being gay.  

    •  The Assault Story (4.00 / 2)

      has only surfaced after the executions because the Iranian authorities were pissed at the reporting of the story. Despite Murdoch picking up the story it is not believed by other news sources.

      Canada - where a pack of smokes is ten bucks and a heart transplant is free.

      by dpc on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:09:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The assault story (4.00 / 3)

      was no where to be found when the story emerged yesterday.  It is convenient that it has arisen today.  I have read that Iran has murdered 4,000 gay people.  It seems to me convenient that they should find an assault at the root of the story that had pictures which emerged on the world stage.

      For what is is worth, Andrew Sullivan also covers the story.

      Guess what. Kossacks continue to be very rude. I am for Obama, but I'm not a Kossack.

      by DCDemocrat on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:22:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  They're hanging (4.00 / 2)

      16-year old girls, too. I don't think their bar is very high for executing people.
    •  I heard mixed reports (none / 1)

      Some arab sites reported that the boys were tried and convicted of abducting and raping the 13-year old at knifepoint.

      But some gay American sites only said the boys were hanged for being gay.

      Near-impossible to know what the truth is, given Iran's repressive criminal justice system and lack of accurate journalistic reporting.

      •  p.s. meant to add both could be true (none / 1)

        Both could be true in that they were hanged for same-sex activity AND accused of rape.

        Imagine a small group of teenage boys were caught "in the act" of sexual antics... the youngest one tries to save his own neck by insisting the older ones forced or coerced him.  And maybe that is true, or false, or half-true... who knows.

        The Arab report I saw, indicated that the boys being hanged confessed and expressed remorse, but it didn't sound (to me) like they were confessing to out-and-out rape.  

        They were all age 13-16 at the time of the alleged crime(s).

  •  Lovely (4.00 / 4)

    just fucking lovely.....This is where it must lead to, the blind, crazed devotion to somebody's take on a book. This is true whether the book is the Koran or the Bible - and it's true everywhere they still sanction state murder whether that be Saudi Arabia, Iran, China or the USA.

    Do you really think Dobson and his followers wouldn't like a few good hangin's? Of course they would. And they call themselves people of God.....

    Canada - where a pack of smokes is ten bucks and a heart transplant is free.

    by dpc on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:06:23 AM PDT

    •  I wonder if (none / 0)

      the fundie wing of the GOP knows what it is doing?  As in do they realize the kind of backlash that would result from them acting on the worst nightmares of us all?

      Do they realize that there would not be a church left standing in this country afterward?

      Or are they thinking that once they have control they will never lose it?

      •  That's what they're thinking, (none / 0)

        and I fear they are right.
        •  well to be honest? (none / 0)

          I think that is what they are thinking as well.

          I just don't think that they will remain in power more then 8-12 years most probably and worst case they may hold on for 20.  And they will end up being tossed out.  

          They can't win, they can hold on for a time is all.  History has shown time and time again that reactionary movements don't succeed for very long.

          And at the end they get driven out of power and far to often they also get driven into the sea.

          So if they want to dance this dance they are fools.

          •  Not necessarily. (none / 0)

            It all depends on how many guns they have, and how well they coordinate their power.

            The bottom line is lethal force.  When you have a limitless ability to put holes in your opponents so that they stop moving and start rotting, you can stay in power for a good long time.

            •  already factored (none / 0)

              in.  Sure they can get bloody if they choose to, and given their psychology they will.  But that will actually accelerate their downfall.  That kind of blood bath tends to repulse and sicken people, especially the low level and mid level appartchiks tasked with actually getting covered with the stuff.

              But it best to be prudent and prepare for the kind of violence that might ensue.  

              It will be nasty, it will be evil, and it will be painful.  But we will win in the end, it is inevitable.  And they know that as well, so this is just a temper tantrum from scared and violent children.

  •  all capital punishment is a crime against humanity (4.00 / 11)

    whether done by rope, stones, needle, wet metal chair, bullet or gas.

    Blue Jersey: All the news that slips from print.

    by jmelli on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:13:32 AM PDT

  •  And also there's this from the report (4.00 / 6)

    And Outrage, in its release about the gay teens' execution, noted that, "according to Iranian human rights campaigners, over 4000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Ayatollahs seized power in 1979. Last August, a 16-year-old girl , [Atefeh Rajabi] was hanged [in the Caspian port of Neka] for 'acts incompatible with chastity,' [i.e., sex before marriage]."

    With hardliners in charge, how the hell are we ever going to effect change?

    I really worry that we'll see similar things in Iraq.

    •  We should be equally worried (4.00 / 3)

      about seeing similar actions here. After all, we have our own Ayatollahs (and presidents) who spread the same kind of hatred. And it matters not what these people officially sanction, (love the sinner, hate the sin), but the kind of intolerant atmosphere they and their ilk create with their ongoing anti-gay rhetoric.

      Matthew Shepard is a prime example of the consequences of such rhetoric.

      •  Except in this country (none / 0)

        The extreme right is promoting pseudo-science to try to eliminate homosexuality -- lots of examples of that from the sudden popularity of de-programmers to the recent phony science of Judith Reisman (look her up, she's a nut case who has the ear of the right wing).

        But I also think it's pictures like these that shame asshole homophobes, so maybe public hanging isn't going to get a lot of following in the U.S. (except with Fred Phelps).

        But deprogramming, drugs, brainwashing, shock therapy -- now that's so much more palatable to the rational western mind.

  •  Backed into a corner (4.00 / 7)

    Iran was making a lot of political strides to free itself from religious extremism until our own country started belligerently labeling it the axis of evil. Then, in a show of nationalism, the damned hard-liners were elected.

    Kinda reminds me of HERE. this is EXACTLY why I feel like our government is on the same side as the fucking terrorists, they BOTH use violence, torture, fear all in the name of religion. It's the religious extremeists on BOTH sides that are to blame for this. Let's not make the mistake of using this to start hating the people of Iran. Most of them hate their government far more than we hate ours, I'm sure, and are far more powerless to do anything about it.

    Furthermore, I would bet you a kidney that Dobson et al. would LOVE to see the "crime" of homosexuality (and that IS what they call it) punished by death in the US.

    McCain is a Chode.

    by dnamj on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:23:20 AM PDT

  •  "closeted" asshole Jeff Gannon (none / 0)

    http://www.jeffgannon.com/

    Gays don't need Gays like this....

    ObamaNation 2009!..... Rebecca > www.Kaplan4Oakland.org (4 coveted City-At-Large Council Seat)..... Gavin Newsom Governor California 2010......

    by AustinSF on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:38:51 AM PDT

  •  When can we expect a 'condemnation" (none / 0)

    from the Islamic community for THIS ?

    Never.

    Everyone detected with AIDS should be tattooed in the upper forearm, to protect common-needle users, and on the buttocks... -- William F. Buckley, Jr

    by tiponeill on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:50:58 AM PDT

    •  Come again? (none / 0)

      Why would you expect such a condemnation when they're being technically hanged for rape, not for homosexuality?

      Furthermore, what Islamic community? Iran's Mullahs? The Sheikhs at Cairo's El-Azhar University? There is nobody that can claim to represent such a thing on a global scale because it simply doesn't exist. There is no single community but thousands of them, separated by nationality, ethnicity, branch of Islam, language and level of devotion.

      •  Funny - whenever they are afraid of (none / 0)

        a "backlash" because of terror bombings or reporter beheadings they always seem to manage to issue "condemnations".

        As I said - not expecting one, this is in the best tradition of the Koran.

        Everyone detected with AIDS should be tattooed in the upper forearm, to protect common-needle users, and on the buttocks... -- William F. Buckley, Jr

        by tiponeill on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:17:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The rape charge sounds very fishy. (4.00 / 4)

    I would suggest that we put very little weight on the rape charge.  Look at Ireland's report update: He indicates that the original report from the Iranian student news agency was very detailed, but contained no mention of any rape charge at all.  This allegation came up only after international publicity.  Of course, we can't know for sure without more information (and of course, this is part of the problem: It's not an open legal process; there is no tranparency).  But it sure smells like a smokescreen.

    Ireland also details the law on homosexuality and makes it plain that gay acts per se are punishable by death -- even being caught naked together under a sheet.  There's apparently lots of precedent for this kind of execution in Iran, as well.

    The rape story should not be cause to ignore this outrage.

    Kingman, Barstow, San Bernardino!

    by jem6x on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:53:34 AM PDT

    •  I agree with you (4.00 / 3)

      Let's imagine that the worst is true, something that I don't believe.  Two boys 14-16 rape a 13-year-old at knifepoint.  Even in the most blood thirsty states in our country, they would not get the death penalty.  But the whole thing is too convenient.  

      1.  They kill more than 4,000 gay men and women.

      2.  Pictures finally leak out and horrify the world.

      3.  Guess what, out of the 4,000 they have killed, these two boys were malicious rapists.

      Hmmmmm.  

      Guess what. Kossacks continue to be very rude. I am for Obama, but I'm not a Kossack.

      by DCDemocrat on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:58:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes (none / 1)

        but this can' be compared to our "most bloodthirsty states." They also execute for drug dealing, which we don't do either.

        I've got no sense to make of this, I guess.

        Today's Special: Chickenhawk, slow-baked in its mother's basement.

        by Earl on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 09:09:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Fundamentally, (4.00 / 2)

          it is a profoundly different cultural framework.  But the fact is, men and women who for whatever reasons of biology and environment find themselves sexually and emotionally drawn to persons of the same sex, day in and day out, face the possibility that they will die for their basic instinct.  If the world notices, perhaps they shall be a little bit safer.

          Guess what. Kossacks continue to be very rude. I am for Obama, but I'm not a Kossack.

          by DCDemocrat on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 09:15:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Just Trying To Get on BushCo's Good Side (none / 0)

    This ought to merit favored nation trading status by rightwing hatemonger math.
  •  This is what a permanent repub majority looks like (none / 0)

  •  Coming soon to Iraq! (none / 0)

    I guess the [American] right can pat themselves on the back for the Iraq war, so they can get rid of gays in other countries now at least.
  •  No Dialogue Possible with These MOFOs (none / 0)

    Any thoughts that the theocratic animals in Iran are   not lumps of shit? Now attacking Iran - that's one war I could get behind.
  •  This move seems to be (none / 1)

    a provocation of some kind. I find it hard to accept that powerful figures in Iran, of the sort that arranged these lynchings, would allow these pictures to be seen had they not wanted them to be seen.

    Arab views toward gays are a huge problem. Since gender confusion is a big contributor to teen suicide rates, it's not farfetched to consider how at least some young Arab boys who decide to become suicide attackers find their way to that predicament.

  •  Iran murders people for being gay.... (none / 0)

    and the best you can come up with is writing angry  letters? You think that will make any difference at all? Look on the bright side though, at least the Iranians weren't murdering other nations citizens this time.
    •  if you can propose something else (4.00 / 2)

      that a large number of people can do while sitting at their desks on a Friday afternoon, I will be happy to write it into my diary.  I share your outrage.

      Guess what. Kossacks continue to be very rude. I am for Obama, but I'm not a Kossack.

      by DCDemocrat on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:18:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My solution involves... (2.00 / 4)

        precision guided missiles, boots on the ground, and special ops. Needless to say, I don't think too many people at this site would be keen on the idea.  
        •  And fairly impractical (none / 0)

          at most people's work stations (unless your president of the United States.  Don't hold your breath on that one.)

          Guess what. Kossacks continue to be very rude. I am for Obama, but I'm not a Kossack.

          by DCDemocrat on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:28:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  This is neither... (none / 1)

          here nor there. But does everyone remember when Seymour Hersh kept saying that an invasion of Iran was imminent in the month of June? Now that that idea didn't pan out, it's the White House rigged the Iraq elections. That guy is as full of shit as Robert Novak.
        •  Perhaps you could get the boots... (none / 0)

          But where are you going to get the soldiers to fill those boots?  The military is already stretched thin enough as it is.  Even if we had the troops to spare, you're "solution" is quite unlikely to produce the desired results.

          It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.

          by A Citizen on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:55:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  you know, i'm gay, this story haunts me... (4.00 / 4)

          but I'm not willing to support the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children this 'solution' would entail to save hundred of gay men and women.

          Kill 100 innocents to save 1? Doesn't seem like a solution.

          Daddy, Papa & Me: Two dads, a daughter & the politics of it all.

          by wclathe on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 11:36:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  If that is your solution then (none / 1)

          you must also support many other countries using guided missiles, boots on the ground and special ops against the United States?

          We don't execute for this reason and recently quit putting minors to death...but we execute many, even citizens of other countries. Very few western nations have the death penalty, should they stop our outrages by force?

          Plus we have weapons of mass destruction and ill intent towards many countries. All the more reason you would support us being invaded by those with higher standards?

  •  seems awful (4.00 / 2)

    like the pictures of Jim Crow hangings.

    Why is it always backwards, whackjob fundies doing these type of things? Did they at least see if they floated in water like a duck beforehand to see if they were witches?

    Sponge Bob, Mandrake, Cartoons. That's how your hard-core islamahomocommienazis work.

    by Benito on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:17:14 AM PDT

  •  Goddamn this world! (none / 1)

    Goddamn it to fucking hell!
    •  Monsters. (4.00 / 4)

      I've got a son, he's only 5, but these two Iranian kids remind me so much of him. All three of them so young, so beautiful, so innocent. And these sick FUCKS can somehow execute these two kids. What kind of monsters can they possible be to be able to do this? Someone fucking explain this to me!
  •  As heartbreaking as this is... (4.00 / 5)

    Can we fix America before we try to fix yet another Asian country? We have no right to judge Iran.

    1. Per capita, the USA has more prisoners than any other nation
    2. We are in the top ten list for number of executions with other exemplary democracies such as China, Belarus and Saudi Arabia.
    3. The US has legally executed approximately 13,000 of its citizens since becoming a nation. That does not include vigilante justice, lynchings, or other mob-based activity.

    Write your letters full of indignation to your congress person, the president, the Supreme Court. And once we put our own house in order, we can start working on those of our neighbors.
  •  Prayer (none / 0)

    God help us.

    All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting. - George Orwell

    by Five of Diamonds on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 10:44:12 AM PDT

  •  They're all murderers (4.00 / 2)

    There's little difference between the assholes who "punish" others by taking away their life, liberty or happiness and use religion as an excuse.  Monsters with deficiencies in their life or character choose the religion of their land as a way to make hatred, power and death holy and admirable traits. The only variable is the religion of the land.

    The notion that an omnipotent being who created the universe with mere thought needs his wishes for humanity to be carried about by uneducated humans who interpret a writing of a retelling of a dream some nitwit had 2,500 years ago is so clearly asinine.

    They're all murderers pretending to defend omnipotence.

  •  Link this! (none / 0)

    We need to link this horrible crime with the current Iraqi government.  Represents of the newly elected Iraqi government have been making all nicey-nice with the Iranians.

    Those oh-so-brave purple finger waving Iraqis, we hardly knew ye.

    Let the American people know what we're creating in the Middle East.

    The sad thing is, a good portion of Red America is probably licking their chops at being able to pull this HERE.

  •  American Taliban's wet dream right there. (none / 0)

    Although burning at the stake does has a more Christian flavor to it.
    •  The Dominionists (none / 0)

      interpret Old Testament punishments in the light of modern execution techniques.  They theorize it would be permissable (and godly) to electrocute and kill by lethal injection.

      Guess what. Kossacks continue to be very rude. I am for Obama, but I'm not a Kossack.<