Daily Kos

Almost Official - The Trapped in NO Are Slowly Being Abandoned to Survive or Die

Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 11:34:39 AM PDT

I have just heard two things that have left me so angry that I am shaking as I type this.

The first is that FEMA has suspended all boat rescue operations, citing the dangerousness of the situation on the ground in New Orleans.  The same source hinted that all local and state based boat rescue operations are either imminently being ceased, or already have been,for the same reason.

The helicopers lifting out folks are almost certainly next, as there are reports of gunshots being fired upon the craft as they hover to lift folks out of the Superdome.

The second is that sheltered pasty faced SOB Scott McClellan lecturing folks stealing survival items that "help is coming "soon"....looting is not the way."

What the fuck are we watching????????  While we still can, that is - I assume everyone has noticed that the media is now turning to repeat footage, since the media is either fleeing or cannot get its footage out and on the air.  

When I read these two things together, looking at what is now 72 hours after the City of New Orleans began to flood on Monday night, here is what I see:

  1.  The faces of those who in their desperation are waving sheets, teeshirts, signs made out of cardboard and shingles, trapped at home, saying "Help Us."

  2.  Virtually the entire police force of New Orleans being diverted to "stop" looting - and Dubbya's zero tolerance looting policy so aptly re-articulated by his minion Scottie just a few moments ago.

  3.  The disintegration of what is left of people's humanity as days go by with no news, no information and increasingly no hope.  To the point where it is now kill or be killed, survive by whatever means necessary, or die, because the ongoing absence of help means that you are on your own.

  4.  My disabled next door neighbor, whose daughter, grandchildren and most of his immediate family are (were?) in his hometown of Gulfport, Mississippi, sitting on his back porch where he has been since Monday night, on the phone to everyone and everwhere, trying to find his family - occasionally putting his hands in his head in sheer fatigue - who he has not heard from yet, who nobody has heard from yet.

  5.  The dead or dying faces of thousands as the brutal sun finishes, one life candle at a time, what the rains started days ago.

  6.  And the slow federal boats from China (or DC, this case) loping majestically under our flag through the seas to "help" knowing full well that a ship that sails two days too late is a ship that arrives too late to really save anyone (even Frank Zappa's infamous drowning witch) who hadn't already done what it took to save themselves.

I raged in tears last night with the DAH, who is frankly in shock.  He asked how it is that folks can be raising prices for gas, for food, for everything? He asked how it is that there can be EMPTY hotel rooms that are not teeming with refugees because folks can't pay for them? How is it that Houston can TURN away refugees who made it there through hook and by crook merely because they didn't happen to have previously taken up residence in that hell otherwise known as the New Orleans Superdome? Why aren't we seeing every single private hotel/motel business, every single grocery chain, every single provider of clothes, NATIONWIDE, not fighting in line to be the first to give free, without charge, without profit motive, what is needed to help those still fleeing?  Why are we seeing images of private (white) citizens who are obviously -- unlike those teeming the flooded streets around them -- well fed and well drunk enough to now be able to stand guard over their property with their own guns, instead of the police hustling them out telling them that their sense of property ownership is fundamentally misplaced right now and it's not all about THEM and their material possessions? It's about the dead and dying at the Superdome, in the Convention Center, in the flooded cities.  From the heat, from shock, from hunger, from disease.  They are dying.

And yet FEMA is suspending the most efficient form of rescue operations.

The DAH swears that it is different where he comes from.  He swears that his country's citizens would never tolerate what we are seeing here in terms of the response of our so called benevolent business community and so called protective government.

He probably sees this through the lens of one who is loyal to country, but I honestly don't know - I'm not convinced that anything but the most base third-world government could be doing a worse job than we are seeing done right now.  The DAH demands to know why.  I have no answers for him, other than the trite ones:  our country cares nothing for the poor; our government cares only for the rich.

How can those answers possibly be enough? God help them all.  God help US.  What have we become???  Who are we?

Fuck politics.  I don't give a shit right now about the blame game if it detracts a nanosecond's energy from what this is supposed to be about:  Saving people.  Feeding, clothing and housing people.  We can raise holy hell later - and MUST raise it later or we have failed.  

And we all know what the press will be:  "THOSE PEOPLE" are at fault.  The ones shooting.  The ones stealing.  The ones who didn't get out.

Those BLACK PEOPLE. Those ANIMALS.

It will never be said.  But that's what I bet Middle America will be thinking even as it beats itself up with guilt for doing so.

Let me pass on something about many folk living in abject poverty, and about many Black people.  For the first group - the abject poor - life itself is defined in terms of SURVIVAL.  It is every day, day in, day out.  This is true even though it it is now being presented in far more stark terms than it ever has been before, even for the poorest of the poor.  When you've raised up tens or hundreds of thousands to view life only in terms of their own personal day-to-day survival, lecturing them about the rules of "civilized society" are meaningless. Telling them to wait is meaningless.  Telling them that help is coming "soon" is more than meaningless - in some places, it's a recipe for getting your head blown off for sheer ignorance.

So no wonder reporters are being told not to be seen eating, or drinking, in front of those whose faces we see on TV.  Not because it's "insensitive" as some claim, but because those folks would be risking their lives, at some point.  If it were you or I, and we were parched and hungry for days and saw no evidence that this condition would do anything but worsen, we would likely respond exactly the same way.  Because it's all about survival - everything else comes later.

Now, something about Black folks:  contrary to racist myth, we ain't stupid.  Black folks, even the poor and uneducated, know that the government and most of the citizenry of this country really don't see them and their needs as priority.  And that has left many in the ghettos, urban and suburban, living in a state of suppressed rage.  You can see it coming out now, the rage, in the interviews being done in front of the Convention Center.  They are getting louder, angrier, more "in your face."  You can see it even in the faces of the few who are still sitting on their roofs - who two days ago looked hopeful and optimistic, but now look increasingly frustrated as they still hold up signs that are increasingly brief, but stark, in their messages:

"HELP US"

"WE NEED HELP"

The anger, in many Black folks, is usually first expressed by the youth, most who do not have the maturity to know that suppression of Black rage is a necessary survival tactic in this country.  They will, left to their own devices, transpose that rage no matter what their parents and grandparents say to them - because they are young, and we all know the young are foolish.  It plays out by looting, by fighting, by territorialism.  By the AK-47 and the Glock, if available, by the machete and the switchbade, if not.  Because they are youth, who are not idealists, and who don't have a sense of future because they are too young to understand the past.  After all, for them, the images of racial harmony that we all reminisce about are history.  All they know is that they are the have nots in a sea of haves.

You take those two, very different, ways of seeing life and mix them together, and you have a pretty good idea of what is beginning to happen in New Orleans (and, I imagine, those parts of Mississippi that are being almost completely ignored by the media right now; they too are suffering and we mustn't forget them.)

Thus, I am willing to bet that the vast majority of folks still trapped know that they are likely to die if they don't save themselves - by any means necessary.  Nobody is telling them differently, are they?  Where are the folks whose job it is to keep them informed? To keep them hopeful? Since the most basic human instinct is survival, they will fight, more and more as time goes on.  Yes, even if it means using guns, killing for cars, for boats, for food.  Killing to survive.

And to a man and woman, I bet they would tell you this:  the hell with what they "look like" to those of us with the luxury not to be in their shoes.  Stand in their shoes first, and then tell them that what they are doing to survive is "wrong."

Will we judge them, safe in our worlds shielded by nice wallpaper, cars, computers, when they do?

If we do, instead of ourselves as a nation largely composed of the spoiled and privileged, God help us all.  

Tags: Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans, Recommended (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 420 comments

  •  Bush White House (3.94 / 19)

    The Bush Administration has turned its back on these people.  Unfortunately for them, every network has people on location in New Orleans and the three big cable news channels have the situation on 24/7 feed.  The difference between what we can see and what the Bush Administration is telling us is just too huge.

    "Truck Stop Women," a New Film By Phil Gramm and John McCain.

    by bink on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 11:34:43 AM PDT

    •  it would be funny if it weren't so sad! (4.00 / 18)

      they keep saying they've had it set up since before the disaster happened.  then they run down the list of ice, water etc that they are sending.  then they tell us how they are sending 1400  troops a day (starting today) to assist...  everything they are saying is complete bs!  we can SEE that the supplies they have supposedly set up are NOWHERE as everyone stranded has NOTHING!  then the guy has the nerve to say people need to be PATIENT!  after FOUR DAYS!  four days with no food and water!  four days of standing in wa ter... four days of sleeping in the streets!!  four days with crying children they cannot feed or care for!!  but be patiend.  oh, and i understand what it's like to sit on your roof....  must do it a lot huh!  these people need a good smack!  somebody needs to drop their asses in the middle of the disaster and let them think about it for a few days with no food and water!  then tell them to be patient and we'll get you out... after we take care of the looters!  oh and don't forget the prayers and hearts are with you.  i was thinking, they don't need your prayers and thoughts... they need FOOD AND WATER!  
      •  WE'RE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (4.00 / 10)

        We are the most powerful, most prosperous, can-do country in the world.

        Why do we not have a massive military and National Guard response to this disaster? Where are the giant military helicopters that we have spent billions on?  The longest breach is said to be 300 feet long.  Why can't we start dropping enormous freight boxes or huge blocks of stone or even junkyard SUVs to fill up the holes?

        There should be airdrops of food, water and supplies. There should be thousands of Coast Guard and Navy boats in the area. There should be massive water-pumping machines on their way to New Orleans right now.

        And if the Bush team is so ill-prepared for this, do you think they have any idea how they are going to REBUILD once the city is drained and evacuated? And what about refugee camps for the hundreds of thousands of displaced people?

        We are a great country, capable of anything. I can't believe this administration is failing us yet again -- but they are.

        Old Man McCain.com - the best anti-McCain blog on the web!

        by existenz on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 12:08:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  at least the media isn't sugar coating this.... (4.00 / 3)

          well, cnn isn't.  that's what i have been watching.  somebody better friggin hold bush and all the rest of them responsible for this!
          •  Don't Worry About That (4.00 / 3)

            Bush will finally be exposed, but it will not bring back the thousands who will have died.  

            President Bush, I have a question for you, most reverend, sir.  WHERE IS THE REST OF THE NATIONAL GUARD, YOU ARROGANT, LAZY, SELF-SERVING, DECEITFUL, WORTHLESS, HATE AND FEAR-SPREADING FUCKTARD?

            •  the FEMA guy keeps saying that they (none / 1)

              prepositioned all this crap...  then he goes on to make excuses.  we have all the troops....  blah blah blah.  food etc...  can't do this and that because blah blah blah....  interesting thing... i dont know this guy was an analyst or something.  he made a good point.. he said if reporters can get to these people at the superdome and convention center, then the rescue people should be able to get to them!  a

              lso reporter asked why it has taken so long to get people from hospital.  after he said they had PREPOSITIONED things... then he said it takes time to prepare the patients at the hospital... you have to have somewher to take them.... is that not a direct conflicting statement!  

              i was yelling at the tv.  send them friggin food and water asshole!  why can't you drop it from helicopters!  give them something until you can get to them god damnit!  quit fucking making excuses and DO SOMETHING!  but he knows because he was on the ground after the tsunami! yeah.  i think you need to go outside of your headquarters and walk down the streets...  or watch the video of people walking around in filthy water becasue they don't know where to go!  i think i am ngoing to cry!

              •  Prepositioned my ass.. (none / 1)

                If thats the case, why are USAR teams just being called from California right now?  Why are we having to wait days while Canadian USAR and DART teams get clearance to fly in? Why aren't there enough damned helicopters in impacted areas? Why are we NOW realizing we need to evacuate hospitals or get them fuel for their generators?  
              •  that FEMA guy is full of s**t (4.00 / 11)

                I heard him discount all the rumours that the people weren't getting food and water, weren't being rescued. Then, about two hours later, he had to admit that "help was on the way." That nothing had yet reached NO.

                Then I heard eyewitness testimony about what's going on at the Convention Center that made me wonder if I was hearing right. Police & NGs standing around outside, refusing to get involved with any of the victims. No food. No water. People are dying and being laid to rest in corners of the building. Others breaking into nearby stores for food, forced to eat candy bars and all the junk food you find in such places. then the man says men were roaming packs, raping young girls.

                Just exactly what are the police and the National Guard supposed to be doing there?

                What is going is going on there? I am so disgusted, I could scream. And then I learn that at least some of America is blaming the people stuck there because they didn't leave!!!

                It must be nice to live in a world where it's so easy to blame the victim. Makes it easier not to feel, I guess.

                But Wolf Blitzer, for once, was pointing out that it wasn't because they wanted to ride out the storm. They read letters from viewers outraged at the treatment the people, mostly blacd, were getting and were saying it was because they were black.

                One person wrote to say that if these were white upper class, Congress would've reconvened on Tuesday and they'd have removed by Tuesday night (or something along those lines).

                I confess I've been stunned at CNN's openess at telling the truth, even if some of their guests are spinning like crazy. It's one tiny silver lining in a huge, dark, ugly cloud.

                I learned that Nancy Pelosi insisted that Congress return early so they could vote on a $10 billion emergency fund for FEMA - as a starter - to clean up this mess. Go, Nancy!!! And also learned that the House Majority Leader thought it was a terrible idea and didn't want to do it. (There's no surprise. Guess he saw no political gain in this.) But she fought back and finally got at least some of them to return to DC. The vote is to be either tonight or tomorrow morning.

                The kicker is - all the Army Corp of Engineers needed to protect NO protected from a Cat 5 hurricane, to keep the levees from breaking was, I believe, less than $2 billion. Once again, an ounce of prevention....

                Mostly, I am even more stunned that the rescue of the people is taking so long, whatever the reasons or excuses. I know there's shooting but there's always the air drops. Hard to believe this is America. I  don't care what the excuses are; this is bad.

                We didn't lose our innocence on September 11, 2001. We lost it this week. For anyone who's been clinging to that vision of the good ol' USA that we were taught in public school and is now willing to watch with open eyes and listen with open ears, we've become adults. This is US: this is what we're really like, behind the smiles, behind the makeup, behind the television cameras: Bigoted. Heartless. Every person for him- or herself. The wicked witch complete with warts and green skin and flying monkeys for companions.

                Why were not only the Corp of Engineers protections put into place up and down the coast, but why weren't there evacuation plans? Why weren't there buses and even trains for those who couldn't afford to leave? Why weren't there emergency facilites waiting on the other end? Hurricanes are not exactly surprises.

                There will be hell to pay for this. Hell to pay.

                It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish. - Mother Teresa

                by paluxy1945 on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 04:52:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I mostly agree with you (none / 0)

                  We haven't lost our innocence yet.  The poor souls trapped in the Big Easy have, but I just drove to the supermarket and bought a watermelon.  There was plenty of traffic, plenty of plenty.

                  Give it about two months, then we'll start to lose our innocence.  

                  In every stage of these Oppressions...: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury." DoI, TJ

                  by ChuckLin on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 05:50:46 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah right (none / 0)

                They read what they SHOULD have done, maybe here, I don't know. And they said, "Oops." Then, "OK, we'll say we did that. That'll make everything OK."
                And in their world, it will. Publicly they will not be held to account (or so they think, I think differently) and they can keep their dear jobs, and for them it's all good.

                I want to see people doing jail time and pay huge fines. I want justice, but there is no justice for what these people are doing.

                War is not an adventure. It is a disease. It is like typhus. - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

                by Margot on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 05:15:42 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Add this question. (none / 0)

              Why are you making excuses to the dead?
              Bring it home to them, and to the country.

              The surge worked huh? Really? Are the American soldiers out of Iraq? Then the surge FAILED!

              by RElland on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 08:19:37 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  On Faux, however (4.00 / 7)

            they are taking every opportunity to say how "dangerous" things are on the ground.  "Yes, it's still really dangerous."  "Yesterday, it was very dangerous."  And then reporters spew out a litany of crimes that have occurred overnight - car jackings, armed gangs, rapes and shootings, etc.  

            I can see where they're going with this -- already spinning the governments failure:   "Oh, we were ready to go in and help.  We had troops and copters and food and water.  Only those people were shootin' each other up, shootin' at helicopters, carjackin', rapin' pillagin' and hell, we couldn't put our first responders in harm's way.  So the fact that survivors didn't get help for 5 days is their own darn fault.  If they can't control their violent tendencies, well, we can't do anything 'bout that."  (Jeez, I feel like I just channelled Pat Robertson or something.)  

            In truth, the only real difference between the violence that happened overnight in NO, and the violence that happens in any major metropolitan area, is that here there was an absolute failure of government to provide adequate law and order manpower, so things inevitably got out of control.  If you have a few hundred armed National Guardsmen descending into an area in chaos, most people put down their weapons real fast.  

            Reality addict - can't get enough of seeing it all clearly

            by writeout on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 01:33:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh My God (none / 1)

              That is EXACTLY what they are preparing to say.  The rest of the world is seeing how racist the greatest country in the world can act.
            •  whatever (none / 1)

              that's what the National Guard and the soldiers are for. God. Do we not remember Baghdad? every disaster? there is always looting. They are just admitting incompetence.

              fouls, excesses and immoderate behavior are scored ZERO at Over the Line, Smokey!

              by seesdifferent on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 03:15:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  New Orleans is the murder capital of the U.S. (none / 0)

                So it is no surprise that there are armed people out there taking advantage of the situation. Not everyone who lives in New Orleans is a good upstanding citizen, and situations like this sometimes bring out the worst in people.

                THAT'S why we need the National Guard out there. To restore order, make it easy to help the victims and restore the levees and save the devastated areas. You can't let looters take control (and no, I'm not talking about the people who steal food and medicine).  

                It looks like chaos down there, and yet the people in charge are pretending that everything is A-OK and any problems are the fault of a few criminals.

                Old Man McCain.com - the best anti-McCain blog on the web!

                by existenz on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 04:39:43 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  It Is Very Dangerous (none / 0)

              With regards to this from the diary post: "[T]he media is either fleeing or cannot get its footage out and on the air."

              Brian Williams and his crew did tonight's special hour-long show from Metrarie because, as he candidly admitted, they were concerned about their safety.  The footage they showed was extraorindary in showing just how awful things are in New Orleans, Dante's Inferno come to life.  I'm no fan of NBC news with it's Meet-The-Tim Russert's and Blueballs Matthews fouling up the public discourse, but this telecast tonight pulled no punches in showing the horror that has descended on the Crescent City.  Brilliant work.

              "L'enfer, c'est les autres." - Jean Paul Sartre, Huis Clos

              "L'enfer, c'est le GOP!" - JJB, from an idea by oratorio

              by JJB on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 05:15:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It makes sense (none / 0)

                for reporters to get out of harm's way.  It's their job to gather news, not to provide services.

                But when it comes to providing safety, security, and law and order the government and its forces and agencies are all that there is.  If they aren't going to go in because it's dangerous - and let's remind ourselves, the danger was a DEVELOPING situation, it did not instantly spring into being immediately following the hurricane - then as citizens we should all beg Canada to annex us and take over running things now!  Fromn what I hear, those Mounties aren't afraid of squat.

                Reality addict - can't get enough of seeing it all clearly

                by writeout on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 07:56:12 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Neither Is NBC (none / 1)

            As I mentioned below, they did an hour-long telecast tonight, and Brian Williams said that they'd decamped to Metrarie because they were concerned for their safety in NO.  They then showed footage that looked like something out of Dante, and made clear that people were desperate, rapidly losing hope, and in many cases dying.  They showed a 100 year-old woman who looked as if she was about to pass away at any moment, and one young woman (maybe 25-30) with a baby who was incredibly redfaced, apparently from dehydration.  Her baby was getting seriously dehydrated as well.  I started to cry at that point.

            "L'enfer, c'est les autres." - Jean Paul Sartre, Huis Clos

            "L'enfer, c'est le GOP!" - JJB, from an idea by oratorio

            by JJB on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 05:27:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Looting... (4.00 / 4)

              The POLICE should take all food and potable liquids  from all the stores and start handing them out to the stranded.

              THEN they should start a march out of the city. Open the close roads and walk everyone who is capable of walking to dry land. Get them out of the city to someplace safe.

              Don't wait for hardware that won't be sent, just start.

              Call people (safety personell, state legislators, mayors, etc.) in the nearest safe areas and have them set up waystations with food and water along the route. If it can be done for a stupid marathon, why can't it be done for an evacuation?

              They need to stop with the buck-passing and just get people safe.

        •  Massive military response????? (none / 0)

          The US military is in fucking IRAQ slowly being picked off by "insurgents" while here in our own country US citizens in need CAN'T GET HELP.
        •  That Stuff Is Not For Us (none / 0)

          That is for the interests of the elite, not the people.
        •  Sort of a nit-pick, but... (3.00 / 2)

          Why can't we start dropping enormous freight boxes or huge blocks of stone or even junkyard SUVs to fill up the holes?

          No, now, that's just a bad idea. First off, it wouldn't help; if you do the calculations of the amount of force that amount of water would be putting against these kinds of makeshift barriers, plus the tidal forces that cause levee breaches in the first place (and which would certainly be operating on your makeshift levee as well) you'll understand why. And second off, the more junk we pile up there, the harder it is to implement any kind of a permanent solution.

          Fixing the levee is going to take a lot of very careful, very well-planned engineering. Jumping in with giant concrete blocks and smashed-up SUVs would make said engineering impossible, instead of just immensely difficult.

          As for pumps and such, I would have to say that we'd be better off waiting until we had the infrastructure to actually handle them.

          Write off New Orleans, we can't keep it from getting worse before it gets better. But, as you say, don't write off the people of New Orleans. Those we can do something about. Or could, if we cared enough to.

          -fred

          •  wrong, do it again (4.00 / 5)

            let me guess, you've never seen a breeched levee being repaired, right ???

            No, now, that's just a bad idea. First off, it wouldn't help; if you do the calculations of the amount of force that amount of water would be putting against these kinds of makeshift barriers, plus the tidal forces that cause levee breaches in the first place (and which would certainly be operating on your makeshift levee as well) you'll understand why. And second off, the more junk we pile up there, the harder it is to implement any kind of a permanent solution.

            the poster you responded to was exactly right. That is how levee breeches are closed, by dumping large rocks and cement blocks into the breech (they don't use SUVs though) The tidal forces and flow rates that you worry so much about are a known quantity, and the filler will be placed in such a way as to work with those forces

            you miss the point by claiming that a temporary barrier would complicate the permenent solution. Until a temporary barrier is constructed, no permenent solution can be tried

            I live in an area where this type of levee breech is quite common, and the solution is always the same; dump filler into the breech until the water stops flowing thru it

            if you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat ???

            •  humvees for the levee? (4.00 / 2)

              I love the idea of using SUV's to stop the levee break. I believe my governor (I'm in California) has multiple humvees. Perhaps he could donate one.

              No more public scatology!

              by sgere on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 02:55:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  better than contaminated soil (none / 0)

                a city in california sold contaminated soil to a company repairing a levee breech in the san joaquin delta

                now we have a levee that leaches toxic waste into the river, a real fucking brilliant solution, huh ???

                so do we remove the contaminated soil, and lock up the criminal bastard that sold the soil illegally, of course not, silly me to even suspect that to happen

                •  Clean Water Action (none / 1)

                  Is this a fairly recent event?  Did anyone in the town ever contact Clean Water Action?  They know how to win that kind of issue.
                  •  there are local enviro groups all over it (none / 0)

                    happened in the past two years

                    but you gotta understand, the Sheriff and a county superviser pled guilty to federal extortion charges, a judge has been removed from the Superior Court for being criminally stupid TWICE, and the DA has been on disability for 5 years, So a little thing like illegally selling contaminated soil in the middle of a disaster isn't at the top of the government follies around here

              •  I admit that Humvees are useless in battle (4.00 / 2)

                but they also wouldn't work here. They need dense things like rocks, concrete piers, sand bags, presidential heads, etc.

                fouls, excesses and immoderate behavior are scored ZERO at Over the Line, Smokey!

                by seesdifferent on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 03:18:08 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Of course Humvees woudl work; (none / 1)

                  After you run them through a scrapyard metal compacter.....nice square dense pieces of now useful metal....very dense.....good potential filler.

                  Of course rock, concrete blocks, etc. are generally cheaper and more stable.

                  I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat. Will Rogers US humorist & showman (1879 - 1935)

                  by mdgluon on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 04:32:56 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Heavy-ass SUVs would work (none / 1)

                    I intended it as a joke, but the point is that modern SUVs often weigh 5,000 pounds or more.  The Army Corps of Engineers is dropping sandbags that weight 3,000 pounds.  So a typical SUV would work just as well if it was crushed up into a block.

                    My point is that the United States of American can stop up a 300 foot levee breach.  We sent people to the moon, I'm sure we could do this.

                    Old Man McCain.com - the best anti-McCain blog on the web!

                    by existenz on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 04:45:21 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  depends on the river (none / 0)

                      My point is that the United States of American can stop up a 300 foot levee breach.  We sent people to the moon, I'm sure we could do this.

                      this one looks pretty closable, eventually

                      the whole frickin place is a flood plain, so everybody upstream who is pumping flood water out is helping to fill the river

                      New Orleans might have to wait a few days, but filling breeches isnt that difficult

        •  Yeah, man... (4.00 / 2)

          ...what if this was one of those terrorist attacks that they want us to be so constantly afeared of?

          Is this the same response we'd get if it was radiation, or anthrax, or whatever instead of water?

        •  As an Engineer (none / 0)

          I'll tell you that I knew for sure that once the water started flowing, there was no fixing anything until the water on both sides of the breech were at equilibrium.  There is incredible power there.  Even "piling" something up there that will hold up to pumping out one side now is going to be extremely difficult.

          Liberals and conservatives are two gangs who have intimidated rational, normal thinking beings into not having a voice on television or in the culture.

          by Dave B on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 06:47:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I was explaining this to friend in India (none / 0)

          He couldn't get it.

          "But this is America where this is happening!  We have floods here in India where thousands die, it is very sad, but you are in America!  How can such a thing be happening?  I do not understand this thing!"

          I told him we don't understand either.  (Or maybe we understand all too well.)  That's why we're angry as hell.

          "'Normal' is a dryer setting. " -- Elizabeth Moon

          by revsue on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 07:05:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  This will change us forever (4.00 / 4)

          Never again will a politician be able to wrap himself in a flag at a convention and talk about our "can-do" spirit. What people will remember is thousands of people in New Orleans who died because the government those politicians want to run decided that taxing people for the services they need was just too damned inconvenient to their political futures. So, we have levees that fail and an emergency management agency being run by one of Bush's cronies. Welcome to the Banana Republic.
      •  People can live without food (none / 0)

        for a few days. They can't live without water. The stranded folks are surrounded by water -- none of it safe to drink, but at some point thirst will drive them to drink it.

        Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is.

        by Canadian Reader on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 12:44:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  CALL THE WHITE HOUSE NOW (4.00 / 5)

      IT'S TIME CALL THE WHITE HOUSE NOW -
      be civil, but firm and 'kindly demanding' -
      tell the President it's time for a food/water airdrop NOW

      Telephone 202-456-1111
      Alternate phone # 202-456-1414

      FAX 202-456-2461
      E-Mail comments@whitehouse.gov

      CALL CALL CALL
      NOW NOW NOW

      •  Write to ALL the media. (none / 0)

        The White House will put on its earmuffs and sing so they can't hear you.

        WE MUST MAKE A HUGE STINK now!

        (I'm sorry for yelling. This is just driving me crazy like it is everyone else here.)

      •  It only took a couple of minutes to get through... (3.90 / 10)

        ...and this is what I tried to say:

        Operator: Thank you for calling the president's comment line. What state are you calling from, please?

        Me: I'm calling from what the president has derisively called the Liberal State of Massachusetts.

        Op: And what message would you like me to give to the president?

        Me: Please tell the president, or whoever is running things there, that the current lack of a meaningful response to the desperate situation in New Orleans and along the Gulf Coast is appaling. I ask that every available effort be made, immediately, to help the people there.

        Op: Thank you. I'll convey your message to the president.

        Me: Thank you operator. Have a nice day.

        Op: Thanks. You, too.

      •  I called my senators & representative (none / 0)

        I left a message with Sen. Patty Murray's office and spoke with a very nice staffer at Sen. Maria Cantwell's office.  Rep. Jim McDermott's staffer seemed a bit complacent and didn't want to "go down the road" of my noticing that so many of those outside of the Convention Center (without food & water, still) were people of color.   My baby daughter was starting to fuss which always scatters my attention so I'm not sure I came across as an entirely informed constituent.  The White House line was busy, busy, busy...
    •  Am I the only one... (4.00 / 2)

      ...that thinks the best way to stop the looting is to EMPTY THE CITY??

      Get the people out and there wont' be anyone to loot.  

      What is wrong with these people?  It's like they're askingthe people of NO "Do me a favor and die a little quieter would you?"

      It's disgusting!

      •  But but but... (4.00 / 3)

        ...the best way to stop the looting is to EMPTY THE CITY?? Get the people out and there won't be anyone to loot.

        But then we can't decide who deserves to be saved and leave all the rest to die in the water! I mean, what good does this disaster do for the Republican Party if they can't use it to kill off a bunch of lazy, good-for-nothing poor folks who probably just vote Democratic anyway?

        (Harsh? Sure. I just call 'em as I see 'em. I have heard more than one Republican wishing out loud that the great quake comes soon and demolishes San Francisco and kills everyone inside 'and we can just start over'... I don't assume that their feelings are much different about New Orleans.)

        -fred

        •  Bring them to Ohio (none / 1)

          and register them to vote for the next election round.  How about Cincinatti?

          No seriously, we need a New Orleans North.

          Just don't come to DC or we lose a net vote.

          Joke is, someone's congressional district just got on a bus for Texas or Tennessee.

          Not that funny, really, but geopolitically it could be interesting.

          You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

          by murrayewv on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 04:39:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Naw, they won't let them register (none / 1)

            All their papers are under water in all the government buildings in New Orleans.

            "What!  No original birth certificate?  No proof of age?  I don't care if there was a flood, you won't be able to vote.  You could be a....felon!  Or a ....DEMOCRAT!"

            "'Normal' is a dryer setting. " -- Elizabeth Moon

            by revsue on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 06:42:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  so let's hear your plans on that (none / 0)

        Am I the only one that thinks the best way to stop the looting is to EMPTY THE CITY??

        how do you plan to do that ???

        the roads are flooded, the water is filled with navagational hazards, and the some of the evacuees are firing bullets at the would be rescuers

        I'd be glad to hear how you prepose to evacuate these people without transportation, and in the face of hostility

        I'm not trying to pick on you, but saying it is easy. doing it is another story

      •  What property is there NOW??? (none / 1)


        -- why is everyone focused on protecting property instead of helping the people with water and food?

        Stop Looking For Leaders - WE are the Leaders!!!

        by SwimmertoFreedom04 on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 03:31:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Bush isn't shooting at helicopters (4.00 / 6)

      Sorry, but the witless fuckwads who are looting guns and shooting at the police and the rescue helicopters bear ALOT of blame.  No, I'm not there, I don't know what it's like, but nothing, NOTHING, NOTHING excuses shooting at helicopters, tipping ambulances, car-jacking a nursing home bus.  Abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING.  I don't give a damn if your poor, black, whatever.  THERE IS NO EXCUSE for shooting at a helicopter, for setting fires in the dome.  I don't blame the rescue personel for being afraid.  Downed power cables, alligators, snakes, toxic floodwaters AND being shot at by the people you're supposed to be rescuing?  Fuck that.  And fuck all the apologists who try to excuse it.

      Yeah, bush bears 90% of the blame for an incompetent response.  The national guard shouldn't have been in Iraq, they should have been primed and ready to deploy within hours of the hurricanes passing.

      And, as usual, it's the poor people in the middle who suffer - the vast majority not shooting at helicopters whose faith in the government has been so brutally abused.

      •  No - you're right (none / 0)

        there is no excuse for shooting at helicopters - but its also true that slow response has allowed the situation to become so deteriorated, a state af anarchy, that things like are even possible.

        And it doesn't change the fact that thousands of people are in severe jeapordy today.  It is after all the responsibility of government to establish and maintain a state of civil order.  

        -4.63,-3.54 If the people will lead the leaders will follow

        by calebfaux on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 02:05:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's come out...some were NOT shooting at 'copters (4.00 / 5)

        They were shooting off guns to get 'copters attention for a rescue.

        An untypical Negro...since 1954.

        by blksista on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 02:30:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  i believe there are some serious questions (none / 0)

        about that story of shooting at helicopters. didn't you notice it isn't getting much play. it might be an excuse for not doing enough. i do believe there are armed dangerous people there.
      •  No - Bush ain't shooting, but (none / 0)

        he might as well have. These same people lived, with the same authorities, the same police and the same property owners, for years without anyone going around looting and shooting.

        When there's no law, no food, no water, nothing left of civilization and very little of humanity - what you get is a mob mentality, with the dregs of New Orleans in charge. It doesn't listen to reason. There's a blind urge to lash out and burn everything you see.

        It needs to be quelled and it will be - by Monday. But I'm afraid the damage to New Orleans and it's people is going to be permanent. Maybe now the American people will realize what Bush has unleashed in Iraq. It's a tragic way to learn a lesson, but it's the truth. Take away the water and one could be forgiven for mistaking it for Fallujah after we put a seige and 'went' thru the town last year.

        I prefer DKos News to Google News

        by inetresearch on Fri Sep 02, 2005 at 03:54:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  "But New Orleans is... (none / 0)

      ...a dirty, dirty city, filled with gluttony, drunkenness, and fornication. For all that, we'd still make an effort to save the people, but they vote overwhelmingly Democratic, and the people left behind at this point are poor, so they're better off dead."

      -- what I imagine to be going through the minds of BushCo officials

  •  I am terrified you are right Shanikka (4.00 / 14)

    Recommended.

    It's not just about race, not even just about poverty. Fundamentally it's about a deficiency of caring about people outside one's own family or identity group. Thus, when it comes down to brass tacks, other people are expendable.

    I share your terror and horror that rescue and relief operations are succombing to overwhelm, despair, poor and dangerous conditions, and lack of will. It's not just the city that's drowning, it's our humanity.

    We must SCREAM.

    •  Love thy neighbor ... (4.00 / 2)

      and you don't get to pick your neighbors.

      The first commandment of Howard Dean.

    •  Monkeysphere (4.00 / 3)

      You are talking about the "monkeysphere."  This is a popularization of very serious research that shows that all primates have a limitation on the number of people whom they identify with as truly part of their "community" or "monkeysphere."  The anecdotal figure I hear quoted all the time is that in humans this is, on average, about 150.  After 150 people, we view any additional people in the abstract.

      That argument goes that while you would never steal from or lie for personal to someone within your monkeysphere, you wouldn't think twice about doing it to someone outside of it.

      In the gross outline, this "feels true" to me (I haven't read any of the real anthropological research that gives rise to this concept).  But I do think it is overly simple.  I think our monkeysphere varies by the harm contemplated and by the magnitude of our personal need.  In other words, I wouldn't fire a gun at anyone in my present circumstances, but I might shoot my next door neighbor if I were under enough survival pressure.

      I don't judge anyone in New Orleans.  I've given money to the Red Cross.  I'm plenty angry at the Bush administration.  I'd get in my car and drive down there if I had any freakin' clue what to do to help!

      I think, too, that people's monkeyspheres are influenced by information.  If you've only heard on the radio or read on the internet about what is going on, if you haven't seen the footage of people wading through corpse-ridden waters, you might not, from Fridley Minnesota, have much sympathy for looters or the violent.  You might not have made your donation yet.

      Here's the awful truth:  Human beings have the capacity to completely ignore the suffering of others.  And sometimes this is necessary for the survival of a community.

      Here's the hopeful truth:  Most people have deep sympathy for their fellows, regardless of race, creed, or income.  Someone who would spout the most callous racist comments might very well wade into a raging river to save a black child (in fact, these things happen).

      It is certainly true that we all have wrongheaded assumptions.  That we have fears and prejudices.  The measure of our compassion lies in our ability to rise above these.

      I will do what I can to help.  Alas, it is limited right now to opening my wallet.  I hope everyone does what they can.

      I do think there is a larger political issue here.  Our ongoing indifference to poverty and want, to the huge income divide between rich and poor, between black and white America.  I think this President is far and away the worst of my lifetime (I go back to Johnson), and possibly the worst ever.

      I have become more and more active in politics as I have watched my fellow white suburbanites withdraw farther and farther into their insular communities without care for their less fortunate fellows.

      The best thing we can do is tell the truth.  Show the pictures.  Tell true stories.  Make the suffering real and human.  Wake the conscience that most of us have.

    •  Yes (none / 1)

      It's not just about race, not even just about poverty. Fundamentally it's about a deficiency of caring about people outside one's own family or identity group. Thus, when it comes down to brass tacks, other people are expendable.

      This mindset is the predecessor to genocide.  Does anyone doubt that this current bunch of thugs running this country would be capable of that, given the proper conditions?  I have no illusions.

      •  It is the (none / 0)

        predecessor to genocide. That is the problem with so called "Civilization" and why such abominations happen. We lived in groups of about 25 until roughly 6,000 years ago, and we apparently don't make very good ants. The "mindset" you refer to is a matter of biology, and it takes alot of work to overcome even minimally. The folks at this blog knew about the mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq and Gitmo long before the pictures came out, but words don't connect with our gut. The pictures did.
  •  Heaven help not just them, but us (4.00 / 4)

    ... for letting this happen. I feel such a complete and total blind --- something, it isn't even rage anymore.

    How could this be happening????

    James Inhofe (R - Exxon): The greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the people of Oklahoma. - Eiron

    by cookiebear on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 11:36:23 AM PDT

    •  in some ways.. (none / 0)

      It's what's been happening, for a long while, but now it's speeded up and in really clear focus and all over the news and Middle America has to look at it..

      Go read Bob Herbert in the New York Times today.  No, not about the hurricane - about Tennessee governer Phil Bredesen (D) dealing with budget issues in his state:

      The word in Tennessee is that Gov. Phil Bredesen, a Democrat, has presidential aspirations. I find that interesting. Perhaps he can run on the success he's had throwing sick people off of Medicaid.

      Thanks to Mr. Bredesen's leadership, Tennessee is dumping nearly 200,000 residents, some of them desperately ill, from TennCare, the state's Medicaid program. Cindy Mann, a research professor and executive director of the Center for Children and Families at Georgetown University's Health Policy Institute, concisely characterized the governor's efforts:

      "What he's decided to do is save health care costs simply by not giving people health care."

      How's that for a solution to a tough public policy issue?

      What is happening in Tennessee is profoundly cruel. The people being removed from the rolls - some of them disabled, some suffering from such serious illnesses as cancer and heart disease - are mostly working-poor individuals who cannot afford private insurance. They are being left with no coverage and in many instances are in a state of absolute panic.

      "People are going to die because of this," said Carolyn Cagle, a widow from Paris, Tenn., whose 34-year-old son, Lloyd, is a diabetic who has already lost part of his right foot. He is being dropped from the program.
      [...]
      TennCare reduced the number of uninsured residents in the state by one-third and indisputably saved many lives. But the program ran into problems. Parts of it were mismanaged by state officials and by managed care organizations that performed so poorly they either had to be taken over by the state or their contracts were terminated. More insidious is the fact that residents of Tennessee (which limits its state income tax to dividends and interest income) are even less willing than their counterparts in most other states to pay for crucial public services.

      So rather than do the heavy lifting necessary to shore up an important and admirable program, Governor Bredesen resorted to the draconian, life-threatening expedient of severing the health coverage of people who have nowhere else to turn.

      People being abandoned to survive or die, maybe?

    •  Rage mixed with pain mixed with (none / 0)

      compassion mixed with helplessness mixed with disbelief?

      It weighs heavily, it hurts from head to toe.

  •  If only (4.00 / 16)

    a few shots being fired was enough to get us out of Iraq.

    If our government lets masses of people die in New Orleans -- not directly from the hurricane, but from failing to rescue them, it's time for massive civic disorder.

    Oh-- and CNN, and Fox, get your choppers back there, and start picking people off rooftops. Do this, and I'll consider getting cable again.

  •  We are in a desperate situation! (4.00 / 7)

    That's what Mayor Nagin just said.  America simply has to respond to this appalling disaster.  The situation literally screams for leadership.  People are dying, children are suffering even as we type.  (Meanwhile Secretary Rice is buying expensive shoes in NY after having enjoyed a Broadway show last night and preparing to play tennis later today).

    The response we have seen so far is inadequate and seems utterly incompetent.  Legendary musicians are missing and presumed dead; diabetics are dying for lack of medicine; children are wanting for basics like milk and water; the entire City of New Orleans is under water; all of its residents are victims; the entire cities of Biloxi and Gulfport have been utterly destroyed.

    Thanks for your diary!

    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

    by Viceroy on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 11:39:49 AM PDT

  •  This (4.00 / 6)

    is one of the most level-headed and yet crushing diaries I've seen regarding the many layers of this TRAGEDY.

    (Cross-posted in my pants)

    by Calishfornia on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 11:40:59 AM PDT

    •  Yes, indeed ... (4.00 / 11)

      And to a man and woman, I bet they would tell you this:  the hell with what they "look like" to those of us with the luxury not to be in their shoes.  Stand in their shoes first, and then tell them that what they are doing to survive is "wrong."

      I watched Nancy Grace last night - against my wife's wishes - in part because I watched several channels to get their take. No matter what aspect of the aftermath of Katrina was being reported, Grace had always to throw in a line about "looting." By the time it was over, and she had switched back to Aruba, I was ready to throw my television into the street.

      Thanks for this dead-on Diary, Shannikka.

      I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

      by Meteor Blades on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 12:03:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Xavier University needs help... (4.00 / 4)

        Tulane was evacuated, but Xavier still has 400 young men and women trapped inside dorms with no food and water.

        Xavier University is a historically-black college founded by Mother Katherine Drexel and run by the Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament, whose goal is to minister and teach to blacks and Native Americans.

        Someone needs to get to these people as well.  Soon.

        An untypical Negro...since 1954.

        by blksista on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 01:03:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Posted this in the OT, but bears repeating here (4.00 / 13)

    Female anchor on WWL said her husband is one of the NAtional Guard soldiers in the Superdome right now.  She said she was able to get in phone contact with him briefly this morning, and she asked him about what FEMA was doing in the Superdome.

    Her husband's response:  "FEMA bugged out."

    Bush/Cheney - in your guts, you know they're nuts.

    by Lufah on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 11:41:17 AM PDT

    •  This Also Bears Mentioning (4.00 / 4)

      The current head of FEMA, Michael D. Brown, has no experience in disaster preparedness and emergency response.  This Bush appointee is an estate planning attorney.

      FEMA/the Feds/the White House haven't got a clue. They don't know what they're doing and, yet again, thousands of people have died and will die because of their incompetence.

      •  In defense of this poor guy (none / 1)

        ...people at that level are political appointees.  They are there to make POLITICAL decisions, provide leadership and talk to Congress.  They are not expected to understand the technical ins-and-outs of the department - that is for the civil servants and the career management to do.
        •  That was not the policy under Clinton (4.00 / 4)

          His appointee, DeWitt, was an expert.

          Stephanie Dray
          of Jousting for Justice, a lefty blog with a Maryland tilt.

          by stephdray on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 12:49:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Excuse me, but bullshit - (4.00 / 2)

          The head a FEMA is not the ambassador to the vatican. The head of FEMA is there to set and and implement policy. What has been lost to this administration is that in governing, politics, is part of, but is not policy.

          I am giving you a 4 for the nice set.

        •  BS (4.00 / 2)

          They are appointed to lead the department.  That means lead, not make political decisions.  It was criminal, and I mean morally criminal, to appoint and approve someone without disaster experience.  It was criminal of Brown to accept the position knowing the mission of FEMA and knowing his entire lack of experience.  An estate planning lawyer, give me a fucking break.  There is no defense for the incompetence.  FIRE BROWN'S ASS RIGHT NOW!!  Replace him with someone even marginally competent.
        •  Hold you fire people (none / 0)

          ...I'm on your side.  Is this guy an idiot?  Is he incompetent?  Yes, to both.  I am just saying let's put the blame where it belongs - up to the top.  It will be very easy for the Bush toadies to scaepgoat this guy for all the horrors that will unfold for the next couple of days.  The real people at blame are the elected officals - Bush and the Congressional leadership.  

          This guy could just simply be out of his element - I would iamgine it takes a spectacular ammount of courage to respond to a situation like this.  The man is only human and each of us responds to overwealming tragedy differently - for the fist couple of days the governor of LA looked like she was going to lose it on TV.  He probably never thought a disaster could ever get so bad.  

        •  Huh? (none / 0)

          That's what you say in defense of this guy?

          If he took the job of Emergency Czar only because he wanted to be a political tool, he is the filthiest form of human scum.  

          In every stage of these Oppressions...: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury." DoI, TJ

          by ChuckLin on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 07:13:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  he is responsible. period. there is no (none / 0)

          excuse. people without skills have stepped up to the plate in history and done well. repeat, there is not excuse.
      •  Estate planning attorney? (none / 0)

        He may be too late. The estates are all under water.
  •  They know they can't handle the situation (4.00 / 13)

    so they're calling the rescue efforts off and blaming the victims.  That way they don't get blamed when thousands more die.
  •  Recommended (4.00 / 2)

    I'm just at a loss for words.

    "It is time to move forward. The country we carry in our hearts is waiting." --Bruce Springsteen

    by bunny on Thu Sep 01, 2005 at 11:43:05 AM PDT

  •  The looting is a rationalization for (4.00 / 19)

    abandoning the people.  Like they want to do anyway.  As if Bush's Billionaires haven't been looting the entire fucking country to the tune of a half a trilliion dollars a year for the last 5 years and many before that.  Don't forget it's not just the 'deficit', it's the total imbalance.  And pretty soon they are going to start shooting people.  That is the whole point of martial law.  Shoot first, ask questions later.

    And please don't forget that politicising things is a way we apply pressure to get  a better