Daily Kos

poor use less gov't than wealthy?

Sat Sep 17, 2005 at 11:05:45 AM PDT

I need help with a little research project.  I've heard that the amount of government services a person uses is proportional to their wealth.  The wealthier the person the more services they consume.  

Also, I've read 'most' of the litigation in our courts is corporate litigation.  How much does this actually cost?

Both of these statements are repeated frequently but where is the credible research to support it?

It seems intuitively correct to me, but many people refuse to accept it.  I need some facts.

Any suggestions to begin my search?

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  •  A place to start (4.00 / 2)

    Here are subsidies paid to farmers. Although a few are small farms, many are corporate farms. Their owners receive the subsidies but live elsewhere. Look at the rice in Arkansas.

    http://www.ewg.org/farm/

    Perhaps there is a similar database for corporations.

  •  Just shorten the URL (4.00 / 2)

    I haven't examined this one in detail, but it appears to be what you are looking for.

    http://www.ewg.org/

  •  roads (none / 1)

    A huge amount of taxes go to our road system (much paid for by gas tax-- but it's a tax too).  Roads are obviously used more by people with cars, and those who drive out of their area a lot, and that's much more likely to be the affluent. (Many really poor people seldom travel outside their home and work neighborhoods, and of course many use public transit and don't own a car.)  

    The most damage done to highways is done by the big semis, which are almost always shipping goods.  The more you spend, the more you increase shipping, and thus increase the expensive damage to the roads.

    That's just one aspect, of course. But when rich people complain they never get anything back for the taxes they pay, I look pointedly at their Mercedes and their Cadillac SUV and that ugly Hummer of theirs.

  •  How to research (none / 1)

    1. Contact a reference librarian. Public library in person, by phone, or e-mail.

    2. Contact a university professor.

    3. Related material, "Freakonomics" (the book)

    Demographics rule!

    Please report back to us. I was pondering what would happen if, say, Libertarians were allowed NOT to pay taxes but instead were billed for the services they receive.

    Of course, this might mean prohibiting them from using services for which they did not pay.

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Sat Sep 17, 2005 at 11:45:07 AM PDT

  •  You could make a list (none / 1)

    Consular services overseas
    Subsidies for airports that also serve corporate jets
    Coast Guard support for private boaters
    Search and rescue for hikers and skiers in national forests and parks
    National parks generally. How many poor people have visited even one?
    Military responses to protect corporate interests overseas

    To be fair a lot of this covers the middle class as well, but even there the rich do a lot more traveling and skiing than the middle class do.

    •  Military (none / 0)

      My guess is that stationing our military in over a hundred different nations costs more than anything else.  These military are in most cases emplaced to secure corporate interests, most having to do with energy and key raw materials.

      On top of that, you have many billions that the Dept. of Defense is unable to account for.  This money certainly doesn't wander over to the poor side of town.  It lines the pockets of people who are already very very well off.  Proving this is another story, of course.  Good luck nonetheless.

      "You can't negotiate with reality" - James Kunstler

      by Bob Love on Sat Sep 17, 2005 at 01:30:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Air Travel (none / 0)

    Another place is the cost of support given to the airline industry, used more by wealthy than lower income people (business people attending meetings, etc.)  I've never taken the time to fully research this, but, it's an area where research would be interesting.

    The subsidies I'm curious about are the cost of the air traffic control system, TSA and airports.  Does the government charge this cost back to airlines?  I believe airlines need to pay for terminal space, but, does this actually cover the cost of operating an airport?  

    I'm interested in the results of your research.

  •  Defense spending is terrible for the economy (none / 1)

    It creats only one new job per $100,000 per year spent.

    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

    by jfern on Sat Sep 17, 2005 at 12:14:39 PM PDT

  •  Some thoughts by (none / 0)

    Thom Hartmann.  Maybe he has other writing that could help you (and us!) as well.

    Corporations are taxed because they use public services, and are therefore expected to help pay for them - the same as citizens.

    Corporations make use of a work force educated in public schools paid for with tax dollars. They use roads and highways paid for with tax dollars. They use water, sewer, and power and communications rights-of-way paid for with taxes. They demand the same protection from fire and police departments as everybody else, and enjoy the benefits of national sovereignty and the stability provided by the military and institutions like NATO and the United Nations, the same as all residents of democratic nations.

    In fact, corporations are heavier users of taxpayer-provided services and institutions than are average citizens. Taxes pay for our court systems, which are most heavily used by corporations to enforce contracts. Taxes pay for our Treasury Department and other governmental institutions which maintain a stable currency essential to corporate activity. Taxes pay for our regulation of corporate activity, from assuring safety in the workplace to a pure food and drug supply to limiting toxic emissions.

    Under George W. Bush, the burden of cleaning up toxic wastes produced by corporate activity has largely shifted from polluter-funded Superfund and other programs to taxpayer-funded cleanups (as he did in Texas as governor there before becoming President).

    Every year, millions of cases of cancer, emphysema, neurological disorders, and other conditions caused by corporate pollution are paid for in whole or in part by government funded programs from Medicare to Medicaid to government subsidies of hospitals, universities, and research institutions funded by tax dollars through the NIH and NIMH.

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. - 9th Amendment

    by TracieLynn on Sat Sep 17, 2005 at 12:56:52 PM PDT

  •  Looters come in all shapes. (none / 0)

    What about the looters who were screwing with the CA power system?  You know, the guys who were laughing about Grandma Millie and how it was so funny that she was going to freeze this winter.  It costs a lot to even think about reigning those guys in.   What about the currency market.  Ps.  buy gold and silver.

    "Yes dear. Conspiracy theories really do come true." (tuck, tuck)

    by tribalecho on Sat Sep 17, 2005 at 07:09:39 PM PDT

  •  3 Books (none / 0)

    I happened to go to the library today and asked the librarian your question. She didn't have an easy answer. She handed me three books. I didn't have my reading glasses with me, but I did copy down the titles and authors for you:

    --CQs State Fact Finder by Hovey

    --A Statistical Portrait of the United States, edited by Becker

    --Statistical Abstract of the United States, (U.S. Dept. of Commerce)

    I'd like to add one leftist economist to your list of resources. He's on WBAI Pacifica Radio in NYC and his name is Doug Henwood. Google him.

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Sat Sep 17, 2005 at 08:48:40 PM PDT

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