Daily Kos

What an unsatisfying diary from Barack Obama

Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 11:05:32 AM PDT

I'm disappointed in Kossacks for the mass suck up to Senator Obama, who may talk pretty but represents the same old, same old DLC politics that have ripped the heart and soul out of the Democratic party and relegated it to the permanent minority status that a party that stands for nothing and stands up to no one fully deserves.
I am convinced that, our mutual frustrations and strongly-held beliefs notwithstanding, the strategy driving much of Democratic advocacy, and the tone of much of our rhetoric, is an impediment to creating a workable progressive majority in this country.

snip

From traveling throughout Illinois and more recently around the country, I can tell you that Americans are suspicious of labels and suspicious of jargon.  They don't think George Bush is mean-spirited or prejudiced, but have become aware that his administration is irresponsible and often incompetent.

If they don't think George Bush is who all -- ALL -- of his policies manifestly demonstrate him to be, it's because people like you, Senator, don't call him out. As for tone, something tells me you aren't complaining about people being too gentle towards the Republicans.

They don't think that corporations are inherently evil (a lot of them work in corporations), but they recognize that big business, unchecked, can fix the game to the detriment of working people and small entrepreneurs.  They don't think America is an imperialist brute, but are angry that the case to invade Iraq was exaggerated, are worried that we have unnecessarily alienated existing and potential allies around the world, and are ashamed by events like those at Abu Ghraib which violate our ideals as a country.

This is setting up straw men, Senator. I learned that trick in high school. Critics of the Democratic Party's flaccid response Republicans' policies on workplace safety, worker rights, minimum wage, Bermuda domiciles, no-bid contracts, air pollution, water pollution, logging in old growth forests, drilling in ANWR aren't saying business is inherently evil. Critics of the way the Democrats gave Bush the war authorization he wanted so that they could switch the attention to domestic issues before the 2002 elections, critics of the way the Democrats refuse to call Bush on his lies about Iraq, preferring to hide behind the skirts of the mother of a dead soldier, do not think America is n imperialist brute. They think that you and Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and the rest of the leadership are cowards.

Or to make the point differently: How can we ask Republican senators to resist pressure from their right wing and vote against flawed appointees like John Bolton, if we engage in similar rhetoric against Democrats who dissent from our own party line?  How can we expect Republican moderates who are concerned about the nation's fiscal meltdown to ignore Grover Norquist's threats if we make similar threats to those who buck our party orthodoxy?

How about just telling them the truth? John Bolton was manifestly unqualified, he lied under oath and he refused to release documents that probably would have showed he accessed wiretaps inappropriately if not illegally. The fiscal meltdown is not a matter of opinion or partisan horse-trading. "Asking" Republican senators who want to consent to the appointment of an unqualified perjurer or agree destroy the economy in a fiscal meltdown not to do so is just asking them to do their damn jobs honestly.

But to the degree that we brook no dissent within the Democratic Party, and demand fealty to the one, "true" progressive vision for the country, we risk the very thoughtfulness and openness to new ideas that are required to move this country forward.  When we lash out at those who share our fundamental values because they have not met the criteria of every single item on our progressive "checklist," then we are essentially preventing them from thinking in new ways about problems.  We are tying them up in a straightjacket and forcing them into a conversation only with the converted.

So we should be open to new ideas on pre-emtive war, new ideas on encroaching on privacy and the right of women to control their own bodies, new ideas on sending jobs to Mexico while sending corporate taxes to Bermuda, new ideas on cutting taxes for the wealthy, new ideas on how to end Social Security, new ideas about torture emanating from the future attorney general? No, Senator, I think not. Maybe you've been hanging out with a bunch of Ralf Nader supporters somewhere, but I haven't seen any Democrats anywhere demand every single item on some sort of checklist.

Beyond that, by applying such tests, we are hamstringing our ability to build a majority.  We won't be able to transform the country with such a polarized electorate.

Tell that to Karl Rove. Last time I checked, the Republicans were transforming the country pretty effectively.

Because the truth of the matter is this: Most of the issues this country faces are hard.  They require tough choices, and they require sacrifice.  The Bush Administration and the Republican Congress may have made the problems worse, but they won't go away after President Bush is gone.

You are probably too young to remember, but I remember a time when there were budget surpluses as far as the eye could see and a chance to really protect Social Security. No, Senator, the Republicans didn't make the problems "worse," they made them. Period.

And I firmly believe that whenever we exaggerate or demonize, or oversimplify or overstate our case, we lose.  Whenever we dumb down the political debate, we lose.  A polarized electorate that is turned off of politics, and easily dismisses both parties because of the nasty, dishonest tone of the debate, works perfectly well for those who seek to chip away at the very idea of government because, in the end, a cynical electorate is a selfish electorate.

Since when does a polarized electorate get turned off by politics? I just saw 3 million extra bible-thumping wackos turn out for George Bush and hand him the 2004 election. You know what turns people off of politics, Senator? It's people who want to turn the other cheek, who let people like Thom DeLay and Bill Frist pass as reasonable human beings, who say, like the junior senator from New York, that she is voting to authorize war in order to make war less likely. It's feckless leaders who don't simply stand up and tell the truth about the destructive, racist, theocratic, kleptocratic, cronyist policies of the Republicans. "I'll stand up to George Bush. Isn't it time somebody did?" The Democratic establishment universally ganged up on the one man who said those words, but they needed to be said then and they needed to be said now. And you aren't saying them. Hillary Clinton isn't saying them. Joe Biden isn't saying them.

But I do think that being bold involves more than just putting more money into existing programs and will instead require us to admit that some existing programs and policies don't work very well.

Yet another straw man. No one but no one is suggesting "just putting more money into existing programs" or refusing to admit that some programs don't work very well.

And further, it will require us to innovate and experiment with whatever ideas hold promise (including market- or faith-based ideas that originate from Republicans).

Faith-based ideas? The First Amendment may not mean as much to you as the 14th, but it does to me. I want to keep all of my civil rights.

Whenever they are wrong, inept, or dishonest, we should say so clearly and repeatedly; and whenever they gear up their attack machine, we should respond quickly and forcefully.

That would mean responding quickly and forcefully every single day about every single policy. Because they lie every day and tey lie abuot every policy, whether it's calling more clear-cutting "Healthy Forests" or calling a plan to phase out Social Security a plan to save it. Never mind quick, I'm still waiting for a forceful response to the Swift Boat liars. Hell, I'm still waiting for a forceful response to George Bush saying Democrats don't care about national security during the deabate over creating the Department of Homeland Security.

I am suggesting that the tone we take matters, and that truth, as best we know it, be the hallmark of our response.

Yes, Senator, and the truth is, we have every right to be outraged at Republican policies and Republican lies. It's people like you, who seem to want to invite the Republicans over for tea after they've slandered Democrats who make Democrats look weak. And if people don't see the Democrats standing up to the Republicans, they aren't going to trust Democrats to stand up to Osama bin Laden. Let me say it again: In this political climate, how Democrats stand up to their political enemies tells people how they will stand up to the country's enemies. It's time to go see The Untouchables again. For God's sake, the Republicans' chief bagman now seems to be involve in a contract killing. You'd better believe that the tone you take matters. No disagreement there.

In fact, I would argue that the most powerful voices of change in the country, from Lincoln to King, have been those who can speak with the utmost conviction about the great issues of the day without ever belittling those who opposed them, and without denying the limits of their own perspectives.

No, Senator. The Republicans must be discredited. Before they can be defeated, they must be shown to be unfit, both as stewards of the nation and as human beings. Because that is the truth about the likes of Thom DeLay, Dennis Hastert, Bill Frist and George bush.

And I, in turn, will always try and show you the respect and candor one owes his friends and allies.

OK, how about this: How about you don't post a long diary chock full of straw men in a lame defense of a feckless Democratic Party leadership? How about you stand up and tell one plain, unvarnished truth after another about who the Republicans are, where they have taken the country and what their continued rule will mean?

Poll

What do you think of Barack Obama?

60%1160 votes
32%626 votes
6%132 votes

| 1918 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 673 comments

  •  I rec'd your diary (2.62 / 8)

    but I still think Barack's the savior of the democratic party. Like the Nutty Professor's Grandmother (played by Eddie Murphy in drag) might put it, "that Barack Obama, he make me moist."
    •  I don't know about savior... (3.55 / 60)

      ..but he's pretty good. I just had trouble with his diary for two reasons. First, I think his message to cool it is wrong, even though this style clearly works for him in a pretty blue state. Just like Kerry's style works well for him in Massachusetts and he's a pretty good senator. Terrible presidential candidate but a pretty good senator.

      Second, the use of straw men like that in this forum. I felt it was insulting. People here aren't the wild-eyed types demanding ideological purity that he describes.

      Actually, I think this is what happens when you don't tailor the standard speech enough for the forum. I can see these comments as being much less objectionable in some other context.

      "The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

      by expatjourno on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 11:48:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think he's a "savior" either (none / 0)

        I just used the terminology of your poll. But you make some good points.
        •  Thanks, glad you got the joke (none / 1)

          I was trying to do something fun with the poll.

          "The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

          by expatjourno on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 12:26:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  OMFG (2.76 / 17)

            This made it to the top of the heap????
            •  In my 8 months a Dkos (2.35 / 42)

              This is worst diary to make it to the top.

              There have been conspiracy therios that had more quality then this.

              •  Gotta say I agree (2.53 / 26)

                This is an embarassment - I sincerely hope the good Senator takes a pass on this sh*t.
                •  I hope the senator reads this (3.76 / 30)

                  and takes notes.

                  We don't want pretty worded speeches. We want the democrats to call the repubs on their shit and stop placing nice with them.

                  2012: at least the LAST president will be a Democrat.

                  by leftout on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 01:30:41 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Exactly (3.88 / 25)

                    I am astounded that anyone would decry the 'rhetoric' from liberal advocacy groups, while seemingly ignoring the virulent rhetoric from the Republicans which has been going on for years on end. Thinking that compromise, agreement, collegiality and outright surrender will work in the face of that has been tried before, many times, by the likes of Daschle, Gephardt & Co.

                    So-called 'liberal advocacy rhetoric' has grown up in a virtual void of Democratic Party silence. It comes essentially from the same void that Howard Dean's candidacy did.

                    On critical issue after critical issue there has been too much surrender and inappropriate collegiality - too little standing up and speaking out, taking a moral stand in the face of unjust war, torture, human rights violations, usurpations of constitutional freedoms, abandonment of anyone who isn't wealthy, and the list goes on.

                    •  Robert in Wisconsin (4.00 / 6)

                      Terrific and absolutely on target.  

                      It strikes me that people are hungry for the outspoken truth.  They internalize it, but no one speaks for them.  And do audiences react the few times someone has the nerve to speak frankly even if it's not overall popular right away.  We are at the point now in the Bush debacle when truth expressed will get you everywhere.  This is what you see with Howard Dean.  He speaks out as his own man.  He pays for it sometimes, but I think he's gaining.

                      Now, Obama is more and more becoming a big smell.  But a lot of people like to be associated with this smell.  It seems to be sweet because nothing 'radical' is said.  And Obama knows that.  He has been assured by some group of support for President, if he walks the walk.
                      Well, so was Ronald Reagan--that how he got to be President.
                      .  Well, so was Ronald Reagan.

                    •  Barack is too entrenched in being loved (4.00 / 2)

                      His was a lovely worded diary, but strangely coercive at the same time.  You see, what he's advocating would have been unimpeachable twelve years ago.  But our times demand tougher measures.

                      Until the average citizen fully understands the depth of the rot and evil of this government, until Obama or any of his colleagues are willing to hammer what's really going on into the American consciousness, the sweet tactics he advocates will be useless to everyone but himself and his personal advancement.

                      I'm more interested in a leader who fights for his country rather than how he's perceived.

                      Waiting for the Dems to win in 2006 will be wishful thinking if Obama and his ilk go soft on Republican vagaries.  But if they're ready to tell the tought truth right now, then they can rule with the diplomacy he seems to crave.

                    •  What Do We Want? (none / 0)

                      To be just as bad as they are?

                      "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -- Mark Twain

                      by JDRhoades on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 05:16:09 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Seriously? (2.64 / 17)

                    You want him to see the total inability of many here to see the disconnect between his initial diary and the drival posted above?

                    You want him to see that those who've recommended this thread obviously never read his diary?

                    Did YOU even read Obama's diary?

                    Did even half of those recommending this thread read both?

                    I for one am embarrassed for this community.  The knee-jerk response to the circular firing squad - the lack of understanding - the inability to read and comprehend!

                    My god it's as if folks see a long line of people and have no clue as to what the line's for - and join in without any info or facts - without knowing if the wait is worth it or if they even need what's at the end of the line to begin with.

                    •  Yes I read his diary (4.00 / 19)

                      and my thought was, "oh what a nicely worded speech with the intent of telling us nothing is going to change and the reasons they will change nothing". I think their reasons is they think they can't fight the repubs and win, so they roll over to them.

                      I think this diary was an appropriate response. I am tired of pretty speeches and no action. I want action first and short to the point statements that speak out for democratic principles - not compromises.

                      You may disagree, that is one freedom will still have left.

                      2012: at least the LAST president will be a Democrat.

                      by leftout on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 02:19:03 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Did it ever occur to you (4.00 / 5)

                      that the people recommending this diary represent many others who hold similar points of view in this country?  Have you seen the polls lately on support for the war?  More importantly, have you seen the polls showing what Americans think of the Democrats in Congress?  

                      Why is it wrong to alienate Democrats who support Bush, but it's just fine to alienate yellow dog Democrats like me?  After Reagan was elected, I swore I'd always vote a straight Democratic ticket.  Now I'm seriously beginning to wonder if there is any point in my voting at all.

                      There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

                      by Boston Boomer on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 03:45:11 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Your comment. (4.00 / 2)

                        After Reagan was elected, I swore I'd always vote a straight Democratic ticket.  Now I'm seriously beginning to wonder if there is any point in my voting at all.

                        That's what Nader said in year 2000, when Bush ran against Gore.  Nader called the two main candidates, "Tweedledum and Tweedledee".

                        I don't think there is much doubt that this country would be in much better shape right now, in many different ways, if Gore had been the one to take the oath of office in year 2001 rather than Bush.

                        Still thinking of not casting a vote at all?
                        -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                        -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                        by sunbro on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 04:03:22 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  dude (4.00 / 3)

                  Why?  I feel a bit marginalized here by the cool kids..

                  Seriously.  Why is it so unproductive?  Barak was saying that Dems ned to not eat their own. Some agree with him and some say, "Okay but heres WHY we have been pretty vitriolic, and if you changed this we would stop attacking our own and follow.."  There have been the occassional morons who lash out but in what thread have they not made their presence known?

                  Then the avalanche.. Why is this disconnect within the party so lame or embarasssing?  

                  I seriously would like to know because I am feeling foolish and I trust your insight.  And if some agreement can be reached there maybe the intra-party disconnect can be stitched..

                  It clearly exists due to the outpouring

                  "The common man knows exactly what he wants...and deserves to get it good and hard." -H.L. Mencken

                  by mikey666 on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 01:34:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I think... (none / 1)

                  ...you and MikeCan above should make a more substantive critique about this diary before dismissing it as "sh*t."  

                  And my apologies if either of you have made substantive critiques somewhere downthreat.  The damn thing's so big, it's gonna take me a week to scroll it.

                  In Iraq, it's a dry heat. And the language that none of our troops or diplomats speak is Arabic rather than Vietnamese.--Daniel Ellsburg

                  by ankylosaurus on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 01:35:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  If he reads it his belief might be (none / 0)

                  It's not worth it to try to communicate here.  Can't say I would blame him.

                  We don't remember days only moments

                  by psyche777 on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 08:36:54 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Couldn't disagree more! (4.00 / 11)

                Somebody has to tell the truth!

                This country is (among other things) in the middle of a immoral war that we started. Democrats didn't do their job of demanding the President really justify the need for killing, and haven't made the President accountable for it since. It is a war crime to start a war against a country that was no threat. International law makes no exceptions for "bad intelligence".

                If that isn't the biggest reason for ringing alarm bells, it's gotta be on the short list.

        •  asdf (4.00 / 5)

          I refused to take your poll, but it does serve as a great example of the problem we face in political discourse these days, one that I believe Obama alluded to without discussing explicitly.  

          Regardless of how we got to this point, the fact is that in political debate the Republicans use a very simple tactic against us, which works virtually every time.  Accuse the other side of a certain point of view, and then watch as the other side ends up justifying that point of view (with which they may or may not even agree) rather than reframing the debate to their liking.  Or, a variation: make an extreme case that begs the opposite POV from the other side, as opposed to something well-thought-out and reasoned.  We argue in dichotomies, and we live in a black and white political landscape.  The only way out is to simply stop playing that game.  By attacking the other side forcefully and exposing them as cretins or criminals, all we're doing is playing one side against the other: that doesn't do anything to move us forward either, and don't think that voters don't know that.  

          Besides, didn't King--as Obama mentioned--manage to expose wrong doing and change perception and "hearts and minds" while still embodying the characteristics that Obama is trying to foster?  

          The poll is meaningless, because it falls into that same trap of black/white thinking.  And I won't play that game.  

          "Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed...something something."

          by Wojo on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 12:40:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  oops, slipped past me (none / 0)

            you said the poll was a joke after I posted.  I still stand by my thinking though, that it's a perfect example of the sort of false debate where there is no gray area that marks the political scape these days.  

            "Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed...something something."

            by Wojo on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 12:42:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  If by "King" you mean (4.00 / 6)

            Martin Luther King, he was never afraid to go against the grain, and he was reviled for it.  Maybe you are too young to remember when MLK started to speak out against the Vietnam War and when he began his poor people's crusade.  He was viciously attacked by the establishment and told to stay in his place.  No way is Obama following in MLK's footsteps.  So far, he seems to be a go along to get along guy.  I'm deeply disappointed in him.

            There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

            by Boston Boomer on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 03:50:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And for an Illinoisian (none / 1)

              the Senator needs to read up on Lincoln, too.

              Lincoln never belittled his opponents?   How does he think Lincoln won the Lincoln-Douglas debates?  Abe was BRILLIANT at belittling his opponents.

              Not that Lincoln didn't know when to be conciliatory  -- but that was not until the end of the war, Senator.

              In this war, you Dem leaders still haven't won a single battle.
               

              "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

              by Cream City on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 10:12:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I don't know How (3.53 / 15)

        This diary made it up top.....in my opinion, you attack straw men with straw men of your own, you do a poor job of looking at both sides of the issue.   Finally you don't give any comments on his strongest arguements.

        Overall this a poor analysis.  

        Personally I would have also have to place more  trust in a US Senator's opinion then yours regarding the inner workings of the Senate.

        I have a feeling that you have a agenda, and it wasn't represented by the Senator and you decided to attack.  

        •  I can sum up his agenda in 2 words (4.00 / 9)

          Self Importance.

          The black and white, with us or against us attitude prevailing on this board is exactly the kind of crap those of us who are truly concerned about the country are fighting against.  I've seen tons of people on this board get called fascists because they disagreed with the group mentality on one issue.

          I'm a local pol who won a campaign this spring while supporting a tax increase on the ballot.  The tax increase went down in flames 3 to 1, and I was elected 3 to 2.  Why?  Because I explained my views clearly on that issue (i didn't want to cut cops/teachers) and people thought I could do a good job with the fiscal problems our town faced.  If the voters in my town thought like the members of this community, they would have excoriated me on that one issue, and after rolling around on the ground and stuffing grass into their mouths, uniformly voted against me.

          --average people do not think like that--

          You can disagree on a few issues with people and they will still vote for you if they agree with you a fair amount and have faith in your character.

          However, if on every issue you brand everyone who disagrees with you as 'the enemy' and call them fascists, republican-lite, whatever... well you're gonna lose a few people on each issue.  Where's that take you ultimately?

          •  Bingo (4.00 / 3)

            Expat gives no credence to Barak's opinion and only attacks what may be the weakest points out of context....Because he wants a stronger tougher rougher Democrat on that will drag Bush in the mud for the things he's done.

            But that isn't reality....and he goes into why he believe you have to be more middle of the road.......MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE US DON"T VIEW THINGS THE WAY WE DO.

            They don't see Bush as evil, they don't think Republicans are corrupt (yet) etc etc ect.....to not mention anything about that is creating a straw man.

            •  come on (4.00 / 8)

              "MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE US DON"T VIEW THINGS THE WAY WE DO."

              That's because most people aren't living in reality. Did you know 25% of Americans, when polled, think the sun revolves aorund the earth? How many people STILL think the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqis? Should we then say, well, most people are fucktards so let's adjust policy to reflect their utter and embarrassing thickheadedness? No. We fight for REALITY and let them come around.

              Dems are polling just as bad as Repugs in congress right now, and the number one reason cited is that they aren't fighting the republicans.

              While I respect Obama immensely, he is essentially defending our leadership's cowardice. After five excruciating years of defeat, harsh policy and world embarassment shoved down our throats, I can hardly take any more bullshit excuses and pillow-biting from our leadership.

              •  Nonetheless (none / 0)

                You have to deal with the reality that lots of people in this country don't live in reality.

                I think that was the Senator's point when he said "MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE US DON"T VIEW THINGS THE WAY WE DO."

                Bitch about it all you want, but in the end, how do you propose to deal with all the people that believe the sun revolves around the earth? Just insult them?

                I can't believe dailykos is so full of an unwelcoming and uncompromising group of people. You expect for the Democratic Leadership to reach out to you, and when they do, you attack. I'm not saying there doesn't need to be change in the leadership, but making it easier instead of harder for them to reach out to you would be a good step in getting the Democratic Party headed in the right direction.

                •  Insult them? No, lead them. (none / 1)

                  And educate them.  Speak the unvarnished truth.  Yes, politely, yes without the rhetoric that turns them off, but do it loudly.  

                  The reason the republicans are in power right now is not because of people who think the sun revolves around the Earth.  It's because of people like my sister, my co-workers, my barber, who would prefer not to believe the scary crap that this administration is up to, because nobody makes them sit down and listen to the evidence.

                  Kerry had the opportunity to educate the average intelligent citizen about the danger of this administration and he just didn't press it hard enough.  It takes time, persistence, guts and determination --and yes, the right tone-- to convince people that the chummy guy they elected knowningly lied to the whole country to send us into a war of occupation, and that there is no hope of victory in that debacle.  That he has intentionally appointed corporate lobbyists to destroy the ability of our government agencies to watch out for the public interest.  That he has illegally used taxpayer money to pay for favorable news coverage.  That he conspired to reveal the identity of a WMD intelligence officer, the very sort of person required to actually win the war on terror, in a partisan smear campaign to cover up his own lies and failures. (Please, Patrick, go for broke with those indictments!)  

                  These facts are on our side.  Make people listen to the evidence.  We need the Democratic leadership to gather at steps of the Capitol, to denounce these assaults on our democracy and bring the government to a halt, if need be, until everyone knows what the problem is, and until the appropriate legal redress is made.  Where the evidence is still hidden, we need our democratic leaders again to gather at the steps of the capitol and throw the Freedom of Information Act at them, shame the media into investigating, whatever it takes, to make our government open and accountable again.  Glasnost for our country this time.  It's not excusable for this administration to withhold documents that the people are entitled to for partisan convenience, and we need Democratic leaders who will stand up for that principle and make the country cheer for them when they don't back down.

            •  That isn't reality? (none / 0)

              Isn't that what the Republicans have done--and so successfully that they are now a majority party in control of all branches of government?  Look at how they are defending Bill Bennett right now.  

              And the Democrats just sit back and let them get away with it.  Unfortunately, Democrats in Congress have lost touch with the people of this country.  They are making themselves into objects of contempt.

              There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

              by Boston Boomer on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 03:54:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Isn't it the opposite (none / 0)

            of fascist to go against the group mentality? What happened to the 'dissent is patriotic' crowd? Or is that only when you dissent against other people?

            Questioning another's patriotism is the refuge of the truly unpatriotic.

            by surfbird007 on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 01:25:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Please list these "one-issue" votes here (4.00 / 11)

            Really. Please type out a nice, bulleted (or numbered, your choice) list of all the single votes that have made any significant number of Kossacks say, "Enough! I'm through with you!"

            Bankruptcy? Roberts? What else?

            Iraq war? That would leave almost nobody in Congress.

            What?

            For the most part, these aren't even remotely related to single-issue interest groups. These are about branding the party as something different (not just less than) the Republicans. Time and again, elected Democrats just refuse to see that, and vote against the core of what we stand for.

            Bankruptcy? What was the benefit of that bill to the Dems, other than Biden, the credit industry's home-town boy? How will that help the party--over the next winter, as more Americans discover they are broke, unable to pay doubled credit card minimums and often, doubled heating bills?

            Roberts? You mean it really means nothing to appoint a stealth candidate as Chief Justice of the United States--in the face of smug White House dismissals of requests for information? I would've been happy if Dems had simply taken a block vote of abstention--just as Roberts "abstained" from providing answers. But no, we have to get along here.

            These leftists with checklists on every issue, demanding ideology purity without one deviation: They don't exist. They were made up--to provide cover for people without the guts to stand up for their beliefs.

            Your story proves the opposite of what you think it does. You stood up to the "middle" in the name of progressive values--paying the cops and teachers--and the middle respected you for it.

            That's what I'm talking about.

            •  Well, CAFTA for one (4.00 / 2)

              I think it's exceptionally stupid to get pissed about CAFTA.  

              Bankruptcy I'm with you on, everyone should have voted against that.  

              Roberts... you're suggesting -abstaining- so that we don't look like less?  Abstaining -is- less, that'd be the weakest move ever.  Gee, I'm not sure about this guy but I don't want my base to yell at me so I'll just abstain.

              And my story about the election -- the real point is that I appealed to the middle, not stood up to them.  I didn't stand up and say HEY!  All you people voting against this prop 2 1/2 override are fucking stupid and hate education and love crime!

              I said, Well I'm voting for this and here's why, and then followed it up with a lot of bread and butter issues that appeal to everyone.  Cleaner, more efficient govt.  Financial reform.  Etc.  That's what the democratic message should be.  Not BUSH HUETLAR JFIEJIEFIJEIJFEIJEJIFEJIFEJI.  You can stand firm on principles without being an asshole.

              And as far as the leftists with checklists demanding ideological purity, check out my last diary about CAFTA.  I had some good reasonable debating responses and a lot of "you're a fascist!".

              •  Kerry Lost (4.00 / 6)

                in a large part because people bought the whole "He voted for it-before-he-voted-against it" bullshit.

                He was labeled a flip-flopper and people en masse believed every word of it.

                And now some here would have me belive that most people are reasonable folks who won't hold a single vote against a politician???

                Campaigning is about branding. Nothing more. Enough people say that Democrats are weak, people will believe it. If you run a Willie Horton ad, people will think Dukakkis personally held Hortons dick while he raped. Never mind the grey areas and the rational explanation for what really happened.

                Democrats need to change the public perception of Republicans, the one that goes:Strong Defense, Fiscally Conservative, less Government.

                The only way to do that is to do as the Republicans have done: State loudly and unequivically that Republicans are corrupt, irresposnisble, blood-thirsty, uncaring and heartless.

                Too some degree that is a stereotype and not entirely accurate ( though it's very close), but so is the Tax and Spend Liberal label that has been pinned on the Democrats ever since I can remember.

                Democrats lose because they have no courage to stand up for their convictions. They engage in wishy-washy subtleties and think that the majority will be able to read between the lines.

                Republicans, for all that they do, do put it on the line. They don't ask anyone to read between them because they know most people won't or can't.

                They tell it not like it is, but like they'd like you to belive that it is.

                And it works.

                The advantage we have is that most of our rhetoric about Republicans is absolutely true.

                It's ironic, becuase the truth is starting to seem ike the hardest thing to get people to believe.

            •  Absolutely. (none / 0)

              And polls show the mass of Americans would be willing to pay more taxes in order to get the services we all need.  That's why you won the election.  You told the truth, you explained why, and people trusted you because of it.  Just don't sell them down the river now that you've got the job.

              There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

              by Boston Boomer on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 03:57:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  How can you sit there and play arbiter (4.00 / 12)

          when the Senator's diary was full of generalities and short on specifics?

          I'm sure if we had a beer together and talked this over, we would soon come to the conclusion that we have no idea what the Senator is talking about. I'm scratching my head.

          Specifically, what should we do about Delay? Rove? FEMA disorganization? Health Care? etc.

          I read Obama's diary as an appeal to Middle america, the people who like George Bush, which by definition means we should appeal to the apathy and the people who aren't paying attention as the country is burning.

          I really can't say if the diarist is knocking down straw with straw because I saw no men or meat in Obama's diary to begin with. So how can you quibble with the diarist? Even if he is off his game, he's only a blogger. Whereas Obama is a Senator. At least Congresswoman Slaughter and Congressman Conyers come onto the blog with specific tasks in mind.

          Look at these people! They suck each other! They eat each other's saliva and dirt! -- Tsonga people of southern Africa on Europeans kissing.

          by upstate NY on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 01:34:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Obama coming to the Defense (4.00 / 12)

        of Feingold and Durbin didn't offend me one bit but the tone suggested we should also lay off Lieberman,Biden and others who deserve every bit of Vitrol they get here and who should be getting that same message from Senators like himself.

        http://dumpjoe.com/

        by ctkeith on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 12:54:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Are you sure? (4.00 / 6)

        Second, the use of straw men like that in this forum. I felt it was insulting. People here aren't the wild-eyed types demanding ideological purity that he describes.

        They aren't?  It's gotten pretty bad lately.  Reading the comments on slashdot bad.  Dissent is one thing, and I think we all agree that it is just fine, and I am sure the senator does to.  Ripping the head off of someone everytime someone does something slightly unorthydox is something very different, and something that has been happening here quite a lot.

        We went to see the fall of Rome - I thought it would please us To watch how the mighty go in a blaze of hubris

        by Aurostion on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 12:57:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  HEy expat (3.00 / 1)

        check this out..

        A more productive take on your diary without the bullshit vitriol

        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/30/155652/965

        "The common man knows exactly what he wants...and deserves to get it good and hard." -H.L. Mencken

        by mikey666 on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 01:13:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  great diary, and JUST what I was thinking (none / 0)

        When I read the Senator's diary, I immediately wanted to post a request: "Obama, GOOD JOB! Put out a tip jar!!" Just to see how many would take the hint and give him a '3'...
      •  I'm not so sure (none / 0)

        that Kerry's style is working for him in MA. People here held their noses and either voted for him or worked for him only because the alternative was Satan.

        Comforting the Afflicted and Afflicting the Comfortable Whenever Possible

        by RevDeb on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 02:00:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've had it with Kerry (none / 0)

          and I won't be voting for him again.  I'd like to see some new blood in there.  I'd really like to see someone who will stand up for what he/she believes and tell me what that is.  I don't need to agree with all of it; I just need to have some respect for the person I'm voting for.  

          There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

          by Boston Boomer on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 04:18:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Excuse me (none / 1)

        "People here aren't the wild-eyed types demanding ideological purity that he describes."

        I think there are a few who would fit that description posting from time to time...

        "That's hard to explain without using the phrase 'you gullible toad.'" Dilbert

        by gbussey on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 02:08:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wild-eyed, yes... (none / 1)

          ...demanders of ideological purity, no. Well, maybe. But I think I've only encountered the latter from people talking about abortion, which is an issue that lends itself to that. Even there, though, the consensus is on the side of pragmatism.

          "The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

          by expatjourno on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 03:09:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Serious with no snark intended ... (none / 0)

            I never got involved in the "gender war" or whatever it was that created such a tumult, so I really don't know the answer to this question - but do you think one side or the other of that kossack vs kossack battle was focused on some form of ideological purity?

            "That's hard to explain without using the phrase 'you gullible toad.'" Dilbert

            by gbussey on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 05:04:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Tough for some to compromise on abortion (none / 0)

              Some people think it's basically murder, some people think it is an absolutely fundamental issue when it comes to their identity as autonomous human beings. A lot of commenters in other discussions on Kos are in the latter category and therefore feel that the pro-choice position is so fundamental to what the Democratic Party is all about that it must not be abandonded by any Democrat. Period.

              But I really haven't seen that kind of one-issue politics on anything else. And I think that people who wouldn't be one-issue voters on anything else are one-issue voters on this one. I disagree with them, but I have learned to respect them.

              "The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

              by expatjourno on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 12:09:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  not for the dems in this blue state, (none / 1)

        I'm from chicago and am very unhappy with him.  I think his personal ambitions outweigh his ideals, similar to a certain young senator in new york.

        haven't read through the comments yet, but I'm sure there are many fighting you.

        I say thank you, thank you.  you cut to the heart of many matters.  keep fighting this fight, and keep up the good work.

        •  I'm not qualified to say that about Obama (none / 0)

          My sense has been that he's pretty good but there are several things that might make him not my cup of tea. So I need to withhold overall judgement while giving him the benefit of the doubt until I know more.

          Thank you for your kind words. I've been a little overwhelmed by the response. Even the negative comments have mostly been well done. I've only written two other diaries (one of which is a bit of an embarassment), both of which were read by maybe a dozen people.

          I would probably phrase a few things differently if I had to do it over again and I'm sorry that I offended some people unnecessarily. On the other hand, there's an honesty about a first draft.

          "The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

          by expatjourno on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 12:26:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  NO (none / 0)

        I'm FUCKING tired of these dems pulling this shit. Fuck 'em. They continue to think running to the center will help them-they're full of shit. Please someone show me one fucking turd that is running to the center. Just fucking one. Fact is they are getting harder and harder right.
    •  When will a Dem represent the 100% (4.00 / 25)

      of the American public that was lied into war with Iraq?

      We were all lied to, yet the government that is supposed to represent the citizens, including elected democrats, doesn't represent the American people, or democrats.

      If Barak Obama wants to represent his constituents, I suggest he tell Bush straight to his face that:

      We the People of the United States have figured it out for ourselves that the Bush admin lied us into war, using bad intelligence that the administration knew was bad, but told us it was solid intelligence.

      Investigate War Lies --> Evidence for Senate Conviction --> End the War. Got it?

      by bejammin075 on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 11:57:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, this would be one way... (3.91 / 23)

        ...to start telling the truth. Which the Republicans will think is hell.

        You know, FDR once said, "When they stop telling lies about us, we'll stop telling the truth about them."

        Truman said, "I tell the truth and they think it's hell."

        What is so wild-eyed about that? What is so harsh, so angry, so negative?

        I mean, you don't have to lie about Bush, just say he's a draft-dodging, ex-cokehead, untreated alcoholic who drove two companies into the ground because he couldn't find oil in Texas.

        Or he lied about WMD.

        Or he lied about trying to save social security.

        It's the same with all Republicans: Just tell the plain, unvarnished truth about them and their policies and stop pussyfooting around.

        "The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

        by expatjourno on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 12:34:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It was actually (4.00 / 2)

          Adlai Stevenson, governor of and senator from Illinois, who came up with the line about "telling the truth about Republicans."  It's one of my favorite quotes--I don't normally know this stuff.  :-)

          Both Stevenson and FDR could sure turn a phrase--I wouldn't want to engage either in debate or a game of Scrabble, for that matter.

          All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. -Thomas Jefferson

          by Chicago Jason on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 12:57:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  In the current situation, it's like this: (4.00 / 13)

            Elected Republicans: Not Afraid To Lie.
            Elected Democrats: Afraid To Tell The Truth.

            Investigate War Lies --> Evidence for Senate Conviction --> End the War. Got it?

            by bejammin075 on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 01:00:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks for the correction (none / 0)

            As a native of Chicago, I should have known that. I loved Stevenson's answer when someone said he had the votes of every thinking person: "That's not enough. I need a majority."

            "The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

            by expatjourno on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 03:19:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  God, if only (none / 0)

            we could have some real leaders again.

            There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

            by Boston Boomer on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 04:20:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I don't see how (4.00 / 6)

          it could be "political suicide" or a "mistake" to speak out about these glaringly obvious lies, which the majority of Americans presumably now accept as lies. WMD. Social Security "reform" (which most Americans were against no matter how Bush spun it). Rumsfeld lying about shit going on in Iraq. 60%+ Americans now think Iraq is not a good idea. And any of the domestic policy cuts the Republicans want can be tied into the Grover Norquist B.S. about the bathtub, which would make it a  "conservative" issue, not just a "Bush" issue.

          People like Boxer? Who just got reelected  practically in a landslide? Why isn't she out in front on any of this, like every week speaking out, making talk shows, radio programs, giving speeches to the press? What could Boxer possibly have to lose by speaking out?

          And I'm with Ms. Sheehan on the Iraq stuff. Not one more soldier. Not one more needs to die. Get out of there now.

      •  Damn straight (4.00 / 1)

        I am so incredibly sick of this middling, kowtowing bullshit.  When will we get rid of slimey politicians and find leaders who tell it like it is?

        In every stage of these Oppressions...: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury." DoI, TJ

        by ChuckLin on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 04:10:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Just Curious (2.88 / 9)

      Did you even READ the Senator's diary?  

      Or did you just take the above diary at face value?

      Serious question here.  Because I see a total disconnect between the two - we're talking apples & oranges here people.  Before you hit the recommend go look at Obama's diary and then look at his voting record.  Get the facts.

      Then and only then should anyone embrace the views in this diary.

      •  I read both and the diarist quotes him at length (4.00 / 13)

        so I'm not sure why you feel there's a disconnect. Selective quoting is one thing, but the diarist has a large body of Obama's diary italicized here. In my view, he is not taking obama out of context at all. He is respondng forcefully to the points Obama is making.

        We need to hit the Republicans on specifics right now. I have no interest in fighting amongst ourselves over generalities, and really I think the Senator's diary is off the mark for this reason. At this point and time, we should not be talking about niceties. All Dem bloggers and especially our party politicans should be swinging 42 ounce bats. Politeness? Save that for another day, Senator.

        If 9/11, Iraq debacle, KatrinaFEMA, aren't enough to get our congressmen and women frothing, then they should be replaced. i know where my money is going in the next elections, to the people who step up to the plate right now. Any backbencher's can go looking for money among the Americans who think George Bush is a well-meaning fellow. I'm sure those voters (who haven't been paying attention at all) will be willing to offer you a nickel for your campaign.

        Look at these people! They suck each other! They eat each other's saliva and dirt! -- Tsonga people of southern Africa on Europeans kissing.

        by upstate NY on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 01:27:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Barack's diary was awful (3.78 / 19)

      and was an example of why Dems have been losing.

      Expatjourno hit the nail on the head.
      Dems have been making some huge mistakes for the past 25 years;

      1. They try to find out what "voters" think they "want" and then tailor their message to that, instead of coming up with a forceful, confident message that voters will respond to, and voicing it assertively like Hackett. ("Bush is a liar" went over very well in a red area-see what I mean?)
      Voters (most Americans) don't really know exactly what policies they should vote for - policy making is complicated - so they vote for candidates they think show confidence, common sense, and leadership to solve issues. That's why Bush won. And Hackett almost did.
      It's not the policy issues, it's being assertive and confident about your beliefs that voters respond to.
      2. They misunderstand the Rightward Shift. Americans have moved right not because they suddenly decided in 1980 that they like GOP policies - it's because the GOP has been good at projecting an image of self-confidence, even if they ultimately had to compromise with Dems in Congress.

      The Dems have indeed confused "campaigning" with "governing" (or rather they treat them the same. I know I've been saying this for years.
       

      •  I agree with you. I was put off (4.00 / 8)

        by it. There is just a fundamental difference between what I think the Republicans are doing and what he thinks they are doing, apparently. I think they are staging an administrative coup. I think if we allow them to keep doing what they are doing (undermining checks and balances, and stealing from us at the same time, currently and in the future), elections will be completely meaningless (and we can barely trust the results now).

        Apparently, Senator Obama thinks the Bush administration and the Republican machine is acting within a "normal" range of behavior, whereas I think that in reality, they have no respect for this country or its institutions. Oh sure, they talk a good game, and they want to use those institutions for their own interests, but they don't mean it.

        So because the vast majority of people out there in the so-called heartland (I am so sick of the heartland, like the rest of us are chopped liver) don't perceive what this particular strain of Republicans is doing, our elected leaders are just supposed to keep letting them do it?

        I find his synthesis pretty unsatisfactory.

        Corporate Media: Republicans are their base.

        by lecsmith on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 01:46:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  One line stuck out this is perfect (none / 0)

        "They confuse campaigning with governing. Along with an avoidance of risk this also sums it up perfectly.
      •  Exactly! (4.00 / 2)

        What the American people are dying for is leadership--not wimpy representatives who just try not to offend anyone.  Apparently some Americans thought George Bush was a "strong leader" because he told them he was.  Now the curtain has been ripped away and they see him for what he is.  This is a time when new leadership could step in to fill the void.  But the Democrats are just going along with the neocon agenda, with a few weak protestations from time to time.

        There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

        by Boston Boomer on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 04:33:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  yes yes yes (4.00 / 2)

        assertive and confident is right

        the thing that put me off most of all from the senator's diary was the statement:

        I can tell you that Americans are suspicious of labels and suspicious of jargon.  They don't think George Bush is mean-spirited or prejudiced, but have become aware that his administration is irresponsible and often incompetent.

        Well gee, Senator, that's just swell ... now what do you think.

        I mean, most of those people the senator is sussing out don't know half of what's going on because their information sources won't tell them.

        Dems have been chasing after what the average voter thinks for almost 30 years now, and the national debate has swerved to the right. I wish they would knock it off and actually offer some leadership.

        An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

        by mightymouse on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 06:07:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Obama's strategy will work... (none / 0)

      ...when dealing with the uninformed.  It's a powerful message for those who are not intimatly familiar with the tactics and modus operandi of the current (emphasis on 'current') republican leadership.  and that, my friends, is the LARGE majority of the american electorate.  style can be judged quickly, but evaluating substance takes some effort and some knowledge.  

      to us, it's just so much tripe because we are informed and have been on the bad end of a 5 year with-us-or-against-us, our-way-or-the-highway republican beat down....  sometimes it's time to fight and sometimes it's best to compromise.  now is the time to fight....

       

    •  Well he voted against Roberts (none / 0)

      Apparently such an act takes a great set of balls in today's democratic party.  Or maybe it's a question of whether one has fully descended testicles or not.  

      I'd hardly call a Dem who had the moral fiber to stand up to Bush's right wing nutjob SC chief justice a "DLC man."  

      It is true that Obama doesn't breath fire, but we have greats like Dean and Clark to do so.  Obama is a more refined, but still powerful, candidate, more suited for the presidency than a fire-breather.  When Obama speaks there is magic, he is truly a uniter and he inspires like nobody since forever.  It is rare that a fire-breather inspires all Americans to unite, more often, they end up pissing the wrong people off (see, RFK, MLK).  

      What I'm saying is that our party needs both kinds of democrats; both the fire-breathing battle commanders, and the refined statesmen who bring the country together.  A DLC whore is neither, they are not even democrats and should be treated accordingly - as the fire-breathers will.  

      "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

      by Subterranean on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 08:22:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  yowza! (none / 0)

      must've touched a nerve. Anyway, it was a funny scene there, in the Nutty Professor. The grandma was talking about Mike Douglas, I believe...
  •  Great post! (none / 1)

    Unfortunately,

    "Yours fall upon the silence of lambs!"

    This is why we Dems have this 'image problem' no one wants to be associated with week/meek/silly-willy-nilly!

    'tis not our rhetoric that is at fault, it is the perception that we are week-need unpatriotic doddering irrelevant fools!

    Just ask any Republican!

    Actually, from what I have seen, these new-found conservatives, (o-reilly et-al), staunchly and vehemently call themselves independants!

    My bets are, these fools are Democrats, but using the gooper platform in a very cynical ploy to further their own selfish interests!

    yep...chicken-shit liberals espousing the neo-con cause!

    No more gooper LITE!

    by krwada on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 11:10:38 AM PDT

    •  Yes, see how Hackett's candidacy went (3.34 / 29)

      nowhere, because he wasn't mild mannered and milquetoast enough.

      Oh, wait.

      I now think Obama is just another self-serving hack looking for personal advancement at the expense of the base of the Democratic party.

      May I ask, WHAT FUCKING ABUSIVE RHETORIC HAS MIDDLE-AMERICA HEARD FROM DEMOCRATS? There hasn't been any. Period. In fact, that "big sucking sound" no longer represents job loss to Mexico, it's the noise made by hundreds of Democratic elected officials giving George Bush a blow job for four years.

      •  Overboard (4.00 / 11)

        I now think Obama is just another self-serving hack looking for personal advancement at the expense of the base of the Democratic party.

        Too far.

        I don't disagree with most of the diarists points, but Obama is a good dude.  If there are flaws in his character (and do forgive him for being human), they are born of naivete, not avarice.  He's a freshman.  I'm not saying he should get any slack, but he should get the benefit of the doubt.

        •  I mean Hackett.. (none / 0)

          "The common man knows exactly what he wants...and deserves to get it good and hard." -H.L. Mencken

          by mikey666 on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 11:57:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Unfortunately, more time on Capitol Hill (4.00 / 2)

          isn't likely to help as much as hinder.  He might spend one hour of every day hearing from progressives like those on dkos for every twelve hours he spends with the same-old-crap-that-got-us-nowhere-crowd on the Hill.

          www.climatechangers.org... it's a matter of degrees.

          by princemyshkin on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 12:54:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Overboard? Not so sure... (4.00 / 4)

          Obama may indeed be a good dude, I don't know.  I can agree that he is eloquent and well presented.  I think he is smart.  I loved his inspiring speech at the convention.  But since then I've watched his votes and listened to his comments on CSPAN and frankly I'm no longer convinced he's anything but just another well meaning politician more destined to talk than walk.  He's as close to a male Hillary as we've got (and I like Hillary, don't get me wrong, I just think she's driven by ambition instead of a love of the people).

          I don't quite agree with the he's-a-freshman-benefit-of-the-doubt argument.  He may be a freshman Senator, but he certainly is not a freshman American citizen.  

          He knows very well what these issues are about and he's taking a stance synonymous with the establishment Democrat party -- not the citizens of the USA.  

          This newly elected US Senator needs to listen to the people and not the other politicians who are "showing him the way".  

          Therein lies his problem.

           

      •  Exactly (4.00 / 10)

        Hacklett nearly won running on "Bush is an SOB"!

        Dems need to realize that governing is different from campiagning

        "The common man knows exactly what he wants...and deserves to get it good and hard." -H.L. Mencken

        by mikey666 on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 11:57:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We all want to hang the same (none / 0)

          picture on the wall. We are just arguing how to frame it. Hackett did well using the Bush is an SOB because he was running an abbreviated campaign against a seriously flawed candidate.

          Obama has won an election, have you? If what we want is to win then let's truly listen to what this proven winner is saying.

          •  hehe (4.00 / 4)

            come on - I could have won against alan keyes - jeez so could my lunch and that was a turkey sandwich.
            •  Keyes is a professional loser (4.00 / 3)

              He already lost two elections here in Maryland.  Where do you live Alan Keyes?  Oh, I forgot that rules don't apply to Bushite scum like Keyes.

              Call out the Bushite lying scum for what they are, Obama.

              Why do many Americans think that Bush is not evil and a miserable liar?  Could it be that they have not heard the truth from the spineless dems?

              Impeach Bush
              Impeach Cheney

              End the Republican Culture of Corruption and Crony Capitalism

              •  The only way (none / 1)

                to end the Republican Culture of Corruption and Crony Capitalism is to win. Obama is trying to frame our positions in a winning fashion.

                Folks Kerry beat the shit out of Dean kicked his ass! Ask yourself why? Tone Tone tone tone tone tone tone tone.

                •  winning fashion (none / 1)

                  Yes, the D.C. Dems have been very successful at defeating other Dems.  They're great at kicking Dean's ass every time he dares to open his mouth.

                  How are they doing against the Republicans?

                •  So I guess the fact (4.00 / 3)

                  that all the other Democrats slung mud at Dean had nothing to do with it?  This is a chicken/egg problem I guess.  You think winning comes first and then the message.  I think you have to have a message and real beliefs and values to fight for--then you can win.

                  There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious...that you've got to put your bodies on the gears...and make it stop. -- Mario Savio

                  by Boston Boomer on Fri Sep 30, 2005 at 04:38:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  This myth about Hackett is hilarious (none / 1)

            It's so funny how everyone has decided that Hackett ran as a progressive. His ads were Washington is bad bad bad. Playing into the worst stereotypes of government and specifically spouting "limited government"- he was clearly trying to be "A different kind of Democrat" the same old "DLC" st