Daily Kos

What REALLY happened in New Orleans: Denise Moore's story [UPDATED]

Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:14:36 PM PDT

I have never posted a diary before, almost never comment, but instead lurk and read...

But I was compelled to share this email forwarded to me: a gripping account of what REALLY happened.

"They all believed they were sent to the Convention Center to die !"

Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 10:13 AM
Subject: a survivor's story: Katrina in New Orleans

I heard from my aunt last night that my cousin Denise made it out of New Orleans; she's at her brother's in Baton Rouge. from what she told me:

Her mother, a licensed practical nurse, was called in to work on Sunday night at Memorial Hospital (historically known as Baptist Hospital to those of us from N.O.). Denise decided to stay with her mother, her niece and grandniece (who is 2 years old); she figured they'd be safe at the hospital. they went to Baptist, and had to wait hours to be assigned a room to sleep in; after they were finally assigned a room, two white nurses suddenly arrived after the cut-off time (time to be assigned a room), and Denise and her family were booted out; their room was given up to the new nurses. Denise was furious, and rather than stay at Baptist, decided to walk home (several blocks away) to ride out the storm at her mother's apartment. her mother stayed at the hospital.

she described it as the scariest time in her life. 3 of the rooms in the apartment (there are only 4) caved in. ceilings caved in, walls caved in. she huddled under a mattress in the hall. she thought she would die from either the storm or a heart attack. after the storm passed, she went back to Baptist to seek shelter (this was Monday). it was also scary at Baptist; the electricity was out, they were running on generators, there was no air conditioning. Tuesday the levees broke, and water began rising. they moved patients upstairs, saw boats pass by on what used to be streets. they were told that they would be evacuated, that buses were coming. then they were told they would have to walk to the nearest intersection, Napoleon and S. Claiborne, to await the buses. they waded out in hip-deep water, only to stand at the intersection, on the neutral ground (what y'all call the median) for 3 1/2 hours. the buses came and took them to the Ernest Memorial Convention Center. (yes, the convention center you've all seen on TV.)

Denise said she thought she was in hell. they were
there for 2 days, with no water, no food. no shelter. Denise, her mother (63 years old), her niece (21 years old), and 2-year-old grandniece. when they arrived, there were already thousands of people there. they were told that buses were coming. police drove by, windows rolled up, thumbs up signs. national guard trucks rolled by, completely empty, soldiers with guns cocked and aimed at them. nobody stopped to drop off water. a helicopter dropped a load of water, but all the bottles exploded on impact due to the height of
the helicopter.

the first day (Wednesday) 4 people died next to her. the second day (Thursday) 6 people died next to her. Denise told me the people around her all thought they had been sent there to die. again, nobody stopped. the only buses that came were full; they dropped off more and more people, but nobody was being picked up and taken away. they found out that those being dropped off had been rescued from rooftops and attics; they got off the buses delirious from lack of water and food. completely dehydrated. the crowd tried to keep them all in one area; Denise said the new arrivals had mostly lost their minds. they had gone crazy.

inside the convention center, the place was one huge bathroom. in order to shit, you had to stand in other people's shit. the floors were black and slick with shit. most people stayed outside because the smell was so bad. but outside wasn't much better: between the heat, the humidity, the lack of water, the old and very young dying from dehydration... and there was no place to lay down, not even room on the sidewalk. they slept outside Wednesday night, under an overpass.

Denise said yes, there were young men with guns there. but they organized the crowd. they went to Canal Street and "looted," and brought back food and water for the old people and the babies, because nobody had eaten in days. when the police rolled down windows and yelled out "the buses are coming," the young men with guns organized the crowd in order: old people in front, women and children next, men in the back. just so that when the buses came, there would be priorities of who got out first.

Denise said the fights she saw between the young men with guns were fist fights. she saw them put their guns down and fight rather than shoot up the crowd. but she said that there were a handful of people shot in the convention center; their bodies were left inside, along with other dead babies and old people.

Denise said the people thought there were being sent there to die. lots of people being dropped off, nobody being picked up. cops passing by, speeding off. national guard rolling by with guns aimed at them. and yes, a few men shot at the police, because at a certain point all the people thought the cops were coming to hurt them, to kill them all. she saw a young man who had stolen a car speed past, cops in pursuit; he crashed the car, got out and ran, and the cops shot him in the back. in front of the whole crowd. she saw many groups of people decide that they were going to walk across the bridge to the west bank, and those same groups would return, saying that they were met at the top of the bridge by armed police ordering them to turn around, that they weren't allowed to leave.

so they all believed they were sent there to die. Denise's niece found a pay phone, and kept trying to call her mother's boyfriend in Baton Rouge, and finally got through and told him where they were. the boyfriend, and Denise's brother, drove down from Baton Rouge and came and got them. they had to bribe a few cops, and talk a few into letting them into the city ("come on, man, my 2-year-old niece is at the Convention Center!"), then they took back roads to get to them.

after arriving at my other cousin's apartment in Baton Rouge, they saw the images on TV, and couldn't believe how the media was portraying the people of New Orleans. she kept repeating to me on the phone last night: make sure you tell everybody that they left us there to die. nobody came. those young men with guns were protecting us. if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have had the little water and food they had found.

that's Denise Moore's story.

Lisa C. Moore
Update [2005-9-6 22:51:57 by ch2]:: The accounts rang true to me, and I'm a professional skeptic (a scientist), but I respect anyone who wants to approach these stories carefully. I'm initiating an email trackdown of Lisa Moore. If I get a confirmation, I will urge the original author (Lisa Moore), or better yet the survivor herself (Denise Moore), to post at Daily Kos. peace, ch2.
Update [2005-9-6 23:25 by ch2]: Claude B in the comments found the same story in "Libération", a French newspaper. They have additional information about the Moore family. Here's my translation:

The Moore family is large and long established creole Catholic family in New Orleans, the Moores are musicians - Deacon John (Moore) is the most famous one of them - professors, nurses... Their houses are now submerged by flooding, and most of them have lost everything following Katrina's passage. Lisa Moore, editor (Redbone press), has collected the testimony of her 43 year-old cousin, Denise Moore, once an education counselor, now a refugee in Baton Rouge. Here is her tale of a dive into Hell.

Update [2005-9-6 23:39 by ch2]: Lisa Moore is indeed the editor of Redbone press. The url below is their webpage and they have a message board. Anyone interested in getting in touch with Lisa to suggest she share her story with the media ?
http://www.femmenoir.net/RedbonePress.htm

Tags: Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 188 comments

  •  thank you (4.00 / 8)

    for posting this.

    The refrain 'they all believed they were sent there to die!' is haunting.

    nil admirari (Don't be surprised at anything)

    by lampwicke on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:20:55 PM PDT

    •  Trust but verify (4.00 / 7)

      Guys, we're in the midst of an incredible disinformation campaign and we have many, many, conflicting stories.  I ask everyone to verify and be willing to back up sources on any accounts posted here or elsewhere.

      If you watched any news tonight, note that the MSM has just been whipped back into submission and the WH is pushing all kind of disinformation very hard.  Trust, but verify.

      •  Not CBS (4.00 / 3)

        The 6:30 CBS broadcast was in full attack mode against Bush still.
        •  NBC, CNN, MSNBC... (none / 1)

          and you know Fox is back in line...
        •  ABC News Tonight - 100% Rove (none / 0)

          Republicans : Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor

          by ctsteve on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 09:34:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Wrong about CBS. (4.00 / 3)

          The 6:30 news may have been ok, but the follow-on special edition around 7:30 had a bunch of sickeningly adulatory moments toward the Prez, such as saying this:  CBS reporter said the Prez had to call the governor and push her very hard to call up the National Guard and push for evacuations.   So it was the president telling the governor to give the hurricane her full attention, uh-huh.

          And then, this: "the president flew back to Washington to underscore the seriousness of the situation."

          [not exact quotes, but this is how I remember it.]  I was shocked, I thought I was watching Fox.  I did not catch who the reporter was, I was flipping channels back and forth.  The moments I saw were entirely too sparing when the production reported on Bush on and his  (in)actions.

      •  yes (none / 1)

        And it's the Ernest Morial Convention Center, not the Ernest Memorial Convention Center.

        Maybe it's just a typo.  But one tipoff with spam and phishing (as in, "Your PayPal Account is Suspended, please confirm your credit card number") is the prevalence of typos.  For whatever reason.

        Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night

        by hrh on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 07:45:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Story published in Tuesday's issue of Libération (4.00 / 5)

        one of France's leading dailies.

        URL: http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=321618

        John McCain Defends Bush's Iraq Strategy.

        by ClaudeB on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 07:52:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Liberation gives more detail on the author (4.00 / 4)

        Thanks for the link (above).  Judging from the biographical note accompanying this story in Libération, Denise Moore should be fairly easy to track down:

        The Moores are an old creole family of New Orleans.  A large Catholic clan, they include musicians -- the most famous is "Deacon John" (Moore) -- as well as teachers and nurses.  Their homes submerged by the waters, most of the family have lost everything in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.  Lisa Moore, an editor (of "Redbonepress"), obtained this account of her cousin, Denise Moore, age 43, a educational counselor (advisor?), who has taken refuge in Baton Rouge.  Here is her account of a descent into hell.

        By the way, the French headline everyone is reading today ("On pensait qu'on nous avait envoyés dans ce Convention Center pour mourir")  translates as "we thought we were sent to the Convention Center to die."

        •  Should have used your translation instead of mine. (none / 1)

          Yours is more polished.

          I have found the publishing press website.  And Lisa is indeed the editor.

          •  very kind of you (none / 1)

            I actually preferred your translation!  (Go figure.)  

            I hope the mainstream media in the USA doesn't require the celebrity of Deacon John (who is a household name in N.O. and very well-known to musicians around the world) to relate a harrowing story told by one of his family members.  

            Thanks for posting this.  

      •  Not sure... (none / 0)

        It's the part about the pay phone. I think all the phone lines were out .. that doesn't ring true to me.
        •  payphones were working...top reporter used one.. (none / 0)

          can't recall which one, but one of the main faces made the comment that he was amazed the pay phone still worked.  I'm not.  I worked for AT&T and know how hardened the landline phone system is.

          Energize America: Demand Energy Security by 2020!

          by Doolittle Sothere on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 09:08:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, some payphones were working... (none / 0)

          Please don't tell me you feel sorry for Ben. Ben is a well cared for dalmatian and has not been harmed by my political views.

          by Bensdad on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 09:32:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  pay phones in the convention center were working (none / 0)

          cnn talked to more than one person inside the convention center from pay phones.  This is one of the reason that one of the phones in my house will always be a land line, not portable...I would recommend everyone have at least one land line in your house in case of power failure.

          There is no way to peace. Peace is the way. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by otis704 on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 06:15:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Conflicting? (none / 0)

        Agreed on the general sentiment of careful fact checking, but what have you seen that conflicts with this? Any sense of skepticism I have comes from a sense of déjà vu: this sounds so precisely familiar that it makes me wonder if it was constructed from other accounts I have read. The simpler explanation, of course, is that people are describing the same events.

        . . . solutions emerge from [our] judicious study of discernible reality.

        by realitybased on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 01:49:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Prevented from leaving the city (4.00 / 16)

    This is the SECOND diary taken from an insider account saying that people trying to leave across the bridge were stopped by armed law enforcement.

    That, to me, is a huge story. I want to know who those people were and who told them to prevent people from leaving. I don't understand how somebody could just drive in and get them from the convention center. Wasn't it all covered in water? How did reporters get in and out?

    "We don't have to put the word 'compassionate' in front of 'liberal' the way conservatives do to prove that we give a shit about people." -- George Clooney

    by amyindallas on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:21:57 PM PDT

    •  precisely (none / 0)

      i was expecting to see a long line of trucks and army transports with people hanging off of them, whatever possessions they had piled in the back along with the old and infirm and children, with the able-bodied walking alongside.

      i thought there would be a long column like this on the freeways leading out of the city.  i thought this would be happening tuesday at the latest.

      instead it's tuesday of the following week and they still haven't evacuated all the people who want out.  

      l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

      by zeke L on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:43:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nagin told story too (none / 0)

      On the "Nightline" special Sunday night, Mayor Nagin said people who went across the bridge that runs directly over the convention center were stopped at the Gretna boundary and met by police with machine guns and attack dogs.
      •  This was a Nagin blunder, IMO (none / 0)

        Shame on officials in the West Bank to repel people who needed help, but he should've picked up the damn phone and greased the wheels first.  In jittery circumstances, you don't unilaterally send loads of people into another community with no plan and no prior consent of the people who live there.  
        •  Fuck no (4.00 / 4)

          People have a right to go down any road in America, especially to escape an emergency. If Nagin could have spared the forces, he could have started a war on that spot. If he could have had the press lead the way, maybe they could have bluffed their way through, even.

          Hopefully the "law" enforcement at that city border will be tried for first degree murder and treason. But Nagin didn't have an army to send against them. Bush did; but he didn't do it.

        •  Too fucking bad for the people who live there. (none / 1)

          Their fucking wheels shouldn't have to be 'greased' to be DECENT people.  The dirty- whore-rat-bastards who thought they would be better off if they didn't help people, have every dying old person and dehydrated child on their consiences.  I hope their names are published and they live their rest of their baby-killing lives in horrible shame.  I hope god strikes them down.

          Those fuckers probably went to church on Sunday too.

          Republicans need people to be stupid

          by strengthof10kmen on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 07:38:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, if Gretna is Jefferson Parish... (none / 1)

            ... and Gretna's public safety people endorsed and played "sovereign border guard," America's gonna have a fucking embolism.

            And this guy...

            ...Jefferson Parish president Aaron Broussard, is gonna have a lot more than one death to cry about on Meet The Press.

            •  maybe you should check first? (none / 0)

              well, if Gretna is Jefferson Parish...

              it isn't, as a brief check with a map would confirm. Jefferson Parish is to the north. As you ought to be aware from the video you reference, it's underwater. Gretna is the other side of the river (hence "walking across a bridge") to get there.

              so what was your point again?

              •  oops... (none / 0)

                just checked again. Gretna is in Jefferson Parish. Jefferson parish is large and crosses both sides of the river. From what I can tell, though, the convention center is in Jefferson parish too...

                apologies for my original reply. Based on the goegraphy of the area, and the parish boundaries, it all seems rather bizarre...

                •  No prob, tough times, but yes, I dbl-checked and (none / 0)

                  Conv. Center is in Orleans Parish. Named after an old Mayor.

                  It seems many didn't get "my point" at first. If Aaron Broussard, a white man representing a predominantly white parish, is consigning brown people to steerage like the Captain of the Titanic, and that's a charitable analogy, we got a world of problems coming, especially if the kinds of numbers numbers DMORT may quietly be predicting come to pass.

        •  ad hominem attacks are odious, however (none / 0)

          Go fuck yourself. Please find yourself a job in the Bush administration. They need more people who don't have a clue what they are talking.

          Come see TV from the reality-based community at RealityBasedTV.com

          by MarkInSanFran on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 08:50:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Calls (4.00 / 4)

          How do you know he didn't? According to what he said on "Nightline," he called FEMA to ask for drops of supplies to the people walking across the bridge. This is my own transcript of a portion of the interview.

          JOHN DONOVAN, ABC NEWS: The last thing I want to ask you about is the race question.

          So, I'm out at the highway -- it was last Thursday -- huge number of people stuck in the middle of nowhere. Jesse Jackson comes in, looks at the scene, and says it looks like the scene of a, from a slave ship. And I said, "Reverand Jackson,, the imagery suggests you're saying this is about race." And he didn't answer directly, he said, "Take a look at it, what do you think it's about?"

          What's your response to that?

          RAY NAGIN, MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: (Sighs) You know, I haven't really thought much about the race issue. I will tell you this. I think it's, it could be, but it's a class issue for sure. Because I don't think this type of response would have happened if this was Orange County, California. This response definitely wouldn't have happened if it was Manhattan, New York. And I don't know if it's color or class.

          DONOVAN: In some way, you think that New Orleans got second-class treatment.

          NAGIN: I can't explain the response. And here's what else I can't explain: We are basically, almost surrounded by water. To the east, the bridge is out, you can't escape. Going west, you can't escape because the bridge is under water. We found one evacuation route, to walk across the Crescent City Connection, on the overpass, down Highway 90 to 310 to I10, to go get relief.

          People got restless and there was overcrowding at the convention center. They asked us, "Is there any other option?" We said, "Well, if you want to walk, across the Crescent City Connection, there's buses coming, you may be able to find some relief." They started marching. At the parish line, the county line of Gretna, they were met with attack dogs and police officers with machine guns saying "You have to turn back..."

          DONOVAN: Go back.

          NAGIN: "...because a looter got in a shopping center and set it afire and we want to protect the property in this area."

          DONOVAN: And what does that say to you?

          NAGIN: That says that's a bunch of bull. That says that people value their property, and were protecting property, over human life.

          And look, I was not suggesting, or suggesting to the people that they walk down into those neighborhoods. All I wanted them to do and I suggested: walk on the Interstate. And we called FEMA and we said "Drop them water and supplies as they march." They weren't gonna go into those doggone neighborhoods. They weren't going to impact those neighborhoods. Those people were looking to escape, and they cut off the last available exit route out of New Orleans.

          DONOVAN: And was that race? Was that class?

          NAGIN: I don't know. You're going to have to go ask them. But those questions need to be answered. And I'm pissed about it. And I don't know how many people died as a result of that.

    •  fox (none / 1)

      shep smith or whatever his name was said the same thing on that clip that was up on crooksandliars.
    •  Here's another one (none / 1)

      You're walking, and you don't always realize it, but you're always falling. --- Laurie Anderson

      by baggy on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:53:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, it was dry, and look to other cities' cops (none / 1)

      Sorry, but this is really going to piss you off.

      If you haven't yet, check out the google satellite map for New Orleans.  On the right (east) side of the crescent, see the big bridge?  That's US-90, the Crescent City Connection.  Now zoom in to the New Orleans side of the river (inside the crescent) and toggle back and forth between 'map' and 'Katrina' functions.  The map shows you exactly where the Ernest Morial convention center is: right at the base of the bridge.  You can also clearly see that the area is not flooded, so it would be fairly straightforward to walk or drive from the center over the bridge.  (Further into the center of the city, the darkened streets are the flooded areas.)

      The other side of the city is Gretna, LA, in Jefferson Parish, which wasn't flooded at all and weathered the storm fairly well.  It's an entirely different jurisdiction than New Orleans.  Mayor Nagin gave permission to leave the city by walking across the Crescent City Connection to "find what relief they can", but he had no any authority over Gretna's willingness to accept evacuees.  Gretna residents were scared silly about looters coming over to their side of the river; another post on this site described a Gretna man in full camo patrolling the streets with a shotgun, vigilante-style.

      I probably don't need to tell you the demographic differences between Gretna and New Orleans.  I have no idea if these were Gretna/Jeff Parish cops on the bridge, but if I were a betting man I would bet the farm on it.  

      •  Further proof (4.00 / 4)

        That the tired old saw that "local" authorities are to blame is a crock of smeared feces. That's what the feds are for, for god's sake, to ensure that the bigger picture prevails. A robust military presence, as opposed to a police presence would have made all the difference, while still providing the same protection against gunplay in the streets.
        •  Local Jurisdiction (none / 0)

          Are you advocating that Federal troops should roll over local civilian authority in a time of civil emergency?

          It is unconstitutional.

          The President of Jefferson Parish put those cops there to stop folks from coming into his jurisdiction. He cries telling his story of one drowning mother while at the same time condeming many others...

          •  Posse Comitatus (none / 0)

            It is not unconstitutional to use Federal Troops as law enforcement, but there are a bunch of laws regulating their use.  The main one is Posse Comitatus

            I researched it briefly before writing this comment, and I was actually shocked at how many exceptions there are to the Posse Comitatus law though.....

            Especially disturbing is the Civil Disturbance Statutes: 10 U.S.C., sections 331-334 mentioned in the link above.  I didn't realize until just now that the US Army was used in LA during the Rodney King riots.

            congratulations on your foreskin -- osteriser

            by bartman on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 01:24:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Free country? (none / 0)

            What right do these cops have to stop people crossing that line?
          •  Who said roll over? (none / 0)

            Why can't they work in tandem. Lots of guns to keep the peace would have turned the situation at the bridge from a police action to a humanitarian mission. Vehicles could have been brought in to take displaced persons BEYOND the Jefferson Parish lines.

            I'm advocating using some fucking imagination when confronted with desperate suffering people, as opposed to perpetuating a "not my yob" mentality.

            •  This was NOLA not Utopia n/m (none / 0)

              •  You are the utopian (none / 0)

                Insisting on a world lived by the book and according to preordained laws and constitutions. Sometimes life just ain't that tidy. You are tiptoeing the line of defending scared racists with guns who took it upon themselves to almost certainly condemn some to death. What happened to their respect for your highly vaunted laws and civilized practices?
                •  Didn't really mean utopia. (none / 0)

                  I was addressing your comment/hope that people would go beyond the "not my job" mentality.

                  I think NOLA is one of the last places where you could expect that to happen.

                  Also, I don't think I am defending the Jefferson parish cops. I am trying to point out that it is unreasonable to expect that Federal troops would override local police without express orders from the Governor or President.

                  This is all academic since there weren't any troops there anyhow...

                  In any event, sending folks to walk to the next parish without coordinating with that parish is not good leadership.

          •  State Jurisdiction... (none / 0)

            technically, as a U.S. Route the bridge exists in right-of-way (ROW) that is administered by the State and is really the law enforcement responsibility of the state highway patrol/state troopers.  The Gretna police could very easily have let refugees pass through the town within the state ROW;  however, the parish/county has no jurisdiction over a municipal police force.  National Guard/U.S. Military troops could have been provided to force the issue.

            That being said, I lived in Los Angeles during the riots, so I can understand how suppressed racial/class fear and prejudice can become expressed during a time of civil unrest.  I remember how "white-bread" communities 20-miles from downtown Los Angeles issued 6pm curfews, which didn't matter because all the businesses had already closed out of fear.  I remember rushing through downtown Los Angeles to go stay with my girlfriend (a grad-student at UCLA) after watching the looting of a "big-box store" 5-blocks from her apartment on the television.  I remember attending the wedding of a good friend in the Hollywood Hills that Saturday, and passing the large group of National Guard troops and CHP by the Beverly Center as I passed by after curfew on my way back to my girlfriends because she was too afraid to leave her apartment.  I also lived in Los Angeles during the Northridge 'Quake, and I remember how everyone appeared to put race/class aside to deal with the disaster.

            Los Angeles isn't New Orleans, and the situations aren't really analogous because Los Angeles didn't have to deal with the double-whammy of natural disaster and civil unrest (actually a triple-whammy of natural disaster, civil unrest, and a FEMA response suffering from "cranium-anal retention" aka head-up-the-ass).

            Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. - T. Roosevelt

            by ranger31 on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 10:29:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Convention Center (4.00 / 10)

      The Convention Center remained high and dry on a natural levy on the banks of the river.  Just above the convention center is a pair of huge bridges to the city of Gretna on the west bank.  Check out this interactive image from the AP.

      convention center

      The convention center, on the left side of the river, just above the bridge is not flooded.  The bridge approaches do not appear to be flooded.  Gretna, to the right, was not affected by the floods at all.

      The only impediment to relief coming in or people getting out was a check point on that bridge.  This is what got Shepard Smith and Geraldo so worked up.

      The flood water was not a barrier to the Convention Center.  Gonvernment officials with guns were the sole barrier.

    •  Yes. Big, big BIG fucking deal. (4.00 / 3)

      This woman personally witnesses 10 people die, holed up in a convention center. They can keep shipping in more people, but not more food and water.

      The cops and soldiers are good enough to point guns at them, but not good enough to grab some buckets and clean the fuckin' bathroom, and make it a safe place to stay.

      And the people aren't allowed to leave.

      Unbelievable.

      "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

      by jbeach on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 07:33:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  cops cleaning the bathrooms? (none / 0)

        Personally, I'd rather see cops trying to keep order, so that people could be protected from being raped or murdered.  But that's just me.

        Anyway, if it had been a simple thing to clean the bathrooms, I'm sure someone would have figured it out and done it.  

        Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night

        by hrh on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 07:53:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Since they have discovered e coli (none / 0)

          in the water, there may well have been a disease-related reason the bathrooms got so filthy so fast...

          "There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." - Gandhi

          by hopesprings on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 09:58:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Cops cleaning bathrooms (none / 0)

          IS one way of "keeping order".  The dangers weren't all (or even, mostly) from violence among the survivors. That's the thing about disasters, even the smallest normal activities cn be part of keeping order.  

          Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

          by a gilas girl on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 10:36:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  open road (4.00 / 3)

      This is what some people don't understand.

      THERE WAS A DRY ROAD from the convention center to the Crescent City Connection. Anyone could just drive up to it, or walk across it.

      If they were preventing people from walking out, that's just incomprehensible and awful.

      •  Yes (4.00 / 2)

        And it completely tears apart the claim that the feds couldn't get to people because of the flood (a lie they continue to push).

        I think most Americans don't realize that there was a DRY road to the survivors.

        The open road was reported on FOX by Shep Smith and Geraldo - both of whom were on the verge of losing it.

        •  my God (none / 0)

          I live in Europe so had only seen CNNI and then CNN when they went to the US feed, or seen photos and video on the internet.  I was also out of town from Friday to late Monday and only saw German news on this (which has been good).

          Anyway, I have just seen this video and am in tears and nearly incapable of writing.

          Thanks to everyone here compiling info, sourcing links.  This is what makes dailykos great.

          "Our time has come, our movement is real, and change is coming to America."

          by lizah on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 03:19:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  They are still not (none / 0)

      being let go. MSNBC interviewed some guys who got shipped to DC. They hadn't been told they were going there, and they have to check in and out.
    •  On Sat. or Sun. morning (none / 0)

      I saw on MSNBC, someone saying the same thing:  They were told to stay on the median and when they went down to end of the overpass, they were turned back and told buses were coming.  They guy interviewed was in tears talking about how they were scared of the armed guards down at the end of the bridge and someone said they (the guards) were shooting at the survivors.  He was then cut off and an another woman, on the same median pretty much gave the same story.

      Outta here, I don't deal well with sites that condone racism.

      by fabooj on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 10:27:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  These are two HUGE questions: (4.00 / 6)

      1. Who stopped people from getting out (literally locking them into the city, the convention center or the superdome) and WHO ORDERED THIS POLICY - state or FEMA?

      2. Who stopped supplies from getting in, and who on earth ordered that??  I've heard countless stories of truckloads of water, medicine, food and volunteers being turned back on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.  

      The answers to these questions will help to explain how and why this tragedy unfolded.  (That and why the administration and FEMA were MIA for 5 full days).  
    •  At some point on Thursday or Friday (none / 0)

      CNN began reporting that Nagin was sending a "Desperate SOS" to get help to the convention center.  

      He said something I couldn't figure out then that makes sense now.  "I'm going to allow them to march."  So they were not supposed to allow people to leave and he said he was going to do so.

      The levels of fuckupedness in all of this is still blowing my mind.

      -7.25, -6.87 You must work - we must all work to make the world worthy of its children. - Pablo Casals

      by peacemom on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 09:35:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Recommended (none / 0)

    These stories need to get out there.  

    Thanks for posting this.

  •  consistent (none / 0)

    with other accounts -- hopefully the truth will get to the american people.

    tikkun olam -- heal the world

    by bjeanh1 on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:23:55 PM PDT

  •  I've been wondering lately (4.00 / 10)

    what I would have done, had I been hustled into the Superdome or the Convention Center under similar circumstances, and forced to endure for four days.

    I don't think it would be pretty - probably curled up in a corner somewhere, babbling and screaming.

    This is America, and that means asking of any other American you see, 'what would I do if I were that person?'

    It struck me that I probably would have looted some tv's from a store, if there were one nearby - and I don't watch tv.  Why?  To barter it for food and water.  

    nil admirari (Don't be surprised at anything)

    by lampwicke on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:28:58 PM PDT

    •  I was talking to this woman today who (4.00 / 13)

      began ranting about all the looting and violence and how could those people, I mean, what d'you want with a TV?

      I couldn't believe it. I said, NONE of us--no one can say what frame of mind we would be in after 1,2,3,4, days without food, water, clothing, bedding and standing in our own fucking SHIT. NO ONE.

      I would hate to see what would happen if you locked 30,000 Barbara Bush's in a shopping mall under those conditions.

      Knowing me, I'd be in there looting a TV just so I had something to THROW at someone, anyone.

      I shamed the hell out of this person: I said, you are standing here getting upset about a fucking TV set and a couple of kids who got shot (she was referring to that fairly recent incident after the worst was over): 60 000 American citizens were just held hostage at gunpoint under the most deplorable conditions imaginable, no food, no water, nothing, and standing in their own shit, with people--uh, family--dying around them!

      She was a German: I reminded her--the last time I recall ever hearing about conditions even remotely similar prevailing for citizens of a Western, industrialized country was in Buchenwald, Dachau, Auschwitz--and your excuse to me personally as Germans has often been, "oh. you can't blame us. you never know how you will respond in a situation like that. " [by like that, she meant under Nazi rule].

      Yeah, you never know do you?

      And the saddest part of my day (this is the first day since before the long weekend that I have been outside the Black community) was to see that THIS is how a lot of the Wonderbread Heads are responding. Outraged? Sure. About the "looting" and "violence". And of course the gas prices.

      This is another reason it is so ungodly important that these stories get national press--actually INTERNATIONAL.

      I can't imagine that Oprah won't stay on this, and others will follow.

      Someone needs to set up a "Survivor story" site. Moore? Olbermann?

      Ok that's it, I'm sending this to Michael Moore.

      •  don't send it to Moore (4.00 / 3)

        send it to Steven Spielberg (of Schindler's List) Any oral historian worth his or her salt is racing to the various shelters that have been set up across this country to take down stories from the survivors.

        nil admirari (Don't be surprised at anything)

        by lampwicke on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 09:01:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Good response! (4.00 / 4)

        When I hear people bad mouthing the looters, I get worked up pretty quickly and this is why:

        The folks who looted were either poor or desparate:  most likely, both.  And this was before Katrina!  Up until last Monday, the system had failed them.  However, most probably had some dignity and respected law and order.   But after Katrina hit:  the system not only failed them,  it bent them over and raped them!  If they were able to loot some food, water, or medicine, then god bless them!  But if they looted some jeans, jewelry, or whatever else:  good for them because I hope they are/were able to get something for it:  food, water, or plain hard cash.  They finally got something out of the system that didn't give a damn about their survival!

      •  Tragedy happens to "somebody else" (4.00 / 4)

        Here's the deal that I've seen ALL my life.  Something tragic happens to someone else.  People observe and some or maybe even most feel empathy, real pain at seeing another human suffering.  A lot of people are so disturbed that they don't want to look at it at all.  

        Many go into some sort of survival or denial mode.  They get so scared at the thought that the same thing could happen to them that they start looking for ways to prevent it AND they look to see if the people who are suffering did something wrong.  Presto, I won't do that and I'll be safe.  We ALL live in a perpetual illusion of safety.  I'm sitting here in my little house, with my doors secure but some crazed guy with a gun could kick in the door, rape me, slit my throat right in front of my family, etc.  I'm not safe; it's not a safe world.  So I do certain things to minimize the risks and "talk myself into believing everything's going to be alright."  (My husband is having an angiogram tomorrow and probably two stints and I'm calming myself that this is a simple procedure and everything will be alright.)

        In the case of the tragedy of people being left to die in New Orleans, seeing them yell Help Help Help, seeing dead bodies and trash and hearing about feces everywhere, many people will think "Well, that wouldn't happen to me because I'd ....."   And they truly might be able to handle the situation better and then again maybe not because they don't have all the facts.    But there ARE some out there that look at these people and immediately say that they are in this horrible situation because they are all on welfare, having been "taken care of" all their life, they don't know how to take care of themselves.

        As proof, read this if you want to start screaming and want to find this guy and punch his lights out.  Wouldn't help him though.

        http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026

        I received this in an email from someone who I DEARLY HOPE was sending it to show how disgusting it was.  If they believed what he said, they probably didn't appreciate my reply, excerpt included here.  Please, please understand that my use of the N word was on purpose in this instance.  To me, the N word is like SOB to an African-American, it's a curse word when used by whites.  Anyway, my response was a rant and here's part:

        "Welfare recipients is code for niggers. And as always it's all their fault.  Despite the overwhelming evidence that it was just a few that were looting and committing violent crimes, this person is convinced that it's all the welfare niggers!   I bet this asshole is also a "right-to-lifer" who's more concerned about sperm than he is the human beings that suffered in this tragedy .....

        I've looked and thought and cried with many people this last week ..... babies, brown babies .... just niggers to this person!  Old people who died in their nursing homes ..... also probably just niggers.  

        Also I bet this person goes to church and sings the praises of Gawd Amighty!  I bet he didn't think that Jesus might say to some one day, "I was poor and flooded out of my home, and you took me in."

        I've heard that this is God's judgment ... for me personally, I think it's because you build a city where the damn hurricanes come.  You build a city that's sinking every day, along with levees sinking every day.

        I guess Bush is God's hand in His judgment, and Bush is sorrier than any "nigger" on the street.  Sorry piece of shit isn't satisfied to take a TV, or some shoes , or shoot a few people ..... no he wants to take Every thing he can get his sorry Repubican money-grabbing, heartless hands on, and kill thousands upon thousands .... in Gawd's name and in the name of democracy and freedom.  IF this were God's judgment, it might be on "Bring 'em on" Bush, Jerry Falwell, that Dobson asshole, and all the other "evangelical" money-grubbing disgusting whatevers.  Remember, judgment begins at the Lord's house ....."  

        And no I haven't received a reply and IF they were offended by my attitude, words, and disagreement, just as well they don't reply.

        •  So true (none / 0)

          about people's psychological defense mechanism -- what wouldn't I have done that would have made me safer than those people so I wouldn't have suffered their plight. Which (though natural) leads to blaming the victims.

          I think to feel empathy you have to feel pain. People watching don't want to feel pain. So they build up (often meaningless and false) distinctions to separate themselves from the victims.

          Reality - Humanity - Sustainability

          by Em on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 06:15:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  My wife's stepbrother (4.00 / 22)

    is in the National Guard. I am trying to get ahold of him. He has apparently been there since tuesday without a change of clothes. Family reports him saying that he was orderd to NO and told not to pack. hen he got there there were no clothes for him. He has been wading around in the water for a week and we have reports from him saying that his feet have open sores.

    This kid is gonna get sick and die unless he gets a change of clothes.

    THE NATIONAL GUARD ARE BEING LEFT TO ROT TOO.

    Seriously folks, if ever there was a time to rise up...

    Say No to Spineless Democrats!

    by roboton on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:29:03 PM PDT

    •  and don't forget (none / 0)

      That more than a third of the LA National Guard is in Iraq, a fact the MSM has stopped emphasizing.  

      We'll never know how much better the response would have been if these men and women were home, but I'm sure their presence wouldn't have made things worse, would it?

  •  Recommended (none / 0)

    This needs to be added to the collection of firsthand Katrina stories. Does anyone know the link?
  •  what will it take?? (none / 0)

    what will it take for these stories to come out on the msm????

    The radical invents views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them. - Mark Twain

    by FemiNazi on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:31:52 PM PDT

  •  The nagging thought pops up more and (4.00 / 3)

    more: was this intentional? Are they THIS incompetent or are they this evil?

    Corporate Media: Republicans are their base.

    by lecsmith on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:38:14 PM PDT

    •  I thought the word "genocide" (4.00 / 4)

      was too strong.

      There's Anderson Cooper angry again that the media is saying "bodies are going to be picked up" but they are not being picked up. FEMA's help is always in the future. This is NOW.

      I keep hearing there are not enough rescuers, that there are more cops in pickup trucks than there are rescuers. That is today, Tues. 6 Sept. and the aftermath of Katrina began Mon. 29 Aug.

      This above all: to thine own self be true...-WS

      by Agathena on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 07:17:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Genocide is all too often misunderstood (none / 0)

        Most historians and legal scholars agree that the term was first defined by Raphael Lemkin who was a major force behind the creation of the UN Convention on Genocide, to which the United States is party (Reagan signed in 86, I believe).

        Now more than ever, I think it imperative that people take a careful look at that international agreement to which the United States IS party and consider whether the current administration, not only in this instance, but in many more, is not guilty of participating in the crime of genocide against its own people, genocide as outlined by the UN CONVENTION (not the dictionary)! Below, the relevant definitions.

        http://www.preventgenocide.org/law/convention/text.htm#II

        Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

        (a) Killing members of the group;
        (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
        (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
        (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
        (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. 
        Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:

        (a) Genocide;
        (b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
        (c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
        (d) Attempt to commit genocide;
        (e) Complicity in genocide. 

    •  This post at Perrspectives may answer (none / 1)

      your question:

      FEMA: Florida Election Management Agency

      Also see my comment from yesterday.

    •  They are (none / 1)

      this evil. This was deliberate. I've read too many other stories. The one about the USS Bataan following the hurricane to come in right behind to begin rescue ops and then pfffft. It went off the media radar and no one's heard about it since. There is just way too much shit to think it is anything less than evil.

      Making judgements without intellectual justification is prejudice. We do not act rightly because have virture, we have virtue because we act rightly.

      by NeoLotus on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 09:32:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This has been my mantra for the past couple a days (none / 0)

      Are they Stupid, Incompetent or just plain Evil???

      This is a serious question....

    •  Ditto (none / 0)

      Anybody hearing or ever expect to hear what the "two options" were that Bush gave Blanco.  
      Whatever they were, Bush was mightily unpleased with her response, which included the hiring of James Lee Witt within that magic 24 hours.

      Blanco needs to have a sit down with Nagin and 'splain things to him, if there is as I suspect a genuine reason she needed 24 hours to get back with him.

      As for incompetence, that's their stock and trade.  Witness the choosing of that New York official Bernie Kerik as Director of Homeland Security ..... turned out their "vetting" of this guy was nothing short of a fiasco.  

      As I've written in posts and a diary, I smell more than incompetence ... what did Bush want from Blanco?  was he using promises of help as a bargaining chip?  But also, I may be in need of a tin foil hat these days.

      What I have seen with my own eyes in my living room is so incredibly unbelievable .... and I wasn't even there to endure this.  God bless those people and their families and a big God bless to ALL those who worked and still are working to help.

      •  Bush Blanco? (none / 0)

        <tinfoil on>
        I think that Bush wanted Blanco to roll over and become an administration puppet and cheerleader.  Bush was the good cop.  Blanco had already seen the bad cops - Chertoff/Brown/FEMA. <tinfoil off>

        Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

        by Fabian on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 05:43:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Why the FUCK wasn't there food and water up... (4.00 / 5)

    ..to their ears in ALL the potential shelters, superdome and convention center specifically, and that question goes to the state and local officials too.  THAT is where the conspiracy unfolds.
    •  they thought it would be temporary (4.00 / 13)

      Despite the fact that the hurricane was going to be Cat4 to Cat5, those in charge believed that the worst would be over in a day or so.  The Superdome and Convention Centre were places for people to get out of the wind, and to hold there for maybe 36 hours before going back home to pick up the pieces.  You can fault this, and you should, because the hurricane's predicted force implied a broken levee, but the policy is not idiotic.

      What is idiotic is the aftermath.  Not doing everything to get supplies into those people as of Tuesday, when it was obvious that everything there was FUBAR.  That is what mayor Nagin was so incensed about.  And the people there -- if there were any Jews, they were thinking of Auschwitz.

      •  well said.. (none / 1)

        ..i am just trying to find out who did this and plenty of Dems have been complicit with Republicans and Bushco fascists in the past:  they're called the DLC.  I don't know Louisiana officials at all but my sense is that they did everything they could AND SOME.  

        That said, Clinton has always had roots in many groups including liberals and did you hear that he has called for an independent investigation!!!!  He's redeemed in my book since his apologist attitude for Bushco a couple days ago...

        I can't get these images out of my head.  In the words of Apocalypse Now... the horror...the horror... and anger... building anger.

        •  Read this Wikipedia entry about (none / 1)

          Ray Nagin:

          Days before filing for the New Orleans Mayoral race in February 2002, Nagin switched his party registration to the Democratic Party, presumably in order to improve his chances of winning the race in heavily Democratic New Orleans.

          It raises questions. There were three diaries posted by Greuben over the past three days that explain the reasons behind the failure to evacuate those unable to evacuate themselves.

          But I am still baffled by the indifference to human suffering. I would really like to know what went on behind the scenes between Blanco, Nagin and the Feds. I'm not yet convinced that mere incompetence explains what went down.

          •  Nagin became a marked man (none / 0)

            as soon as he publically layed into Bush on Wed or Thursday of last week.

            The Bush-Rove Smear machine was activated.

            •  So you, too, feel that FEMA's delay (none / 0)

              was an intentional political act?

              Today I've been googling about the relocations and have found stories where communities that send buses to Houston or other 'holding facilities' are being sent home empty. Other stories where 100's or 1,000's are being relocated to military installations in Utah, Colorado and Rhode Island, where they can be kept behind barbed wire. Particularly galling: a community in Virginia was told that Virginia was not a 'designated relocation state because it is too far away', as the excuse to send the buses back empty. Yet RI is farther away. WTF? Is this a dry run for the coming crack down on dissenters?

    •  My thoughts also. (none / 1)

      I wondered why they couldn't have put those sani-johns or whatever in there by the hundreds atleast. My first thought after the stupidity of putting the people in the convention center in the first place was - toilets!

      I'm afraid this points to the state officials.

      Of course B* still has plenty to answer for. I'm not shifting the blame just wondering why they allowed policemen to do what they did. I'm truly sickened.

      "conservatives are the worshipers of dead radicals".

      by gandalf on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 07:11:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly, (none / 0)

        After the levees broke, the catastrophe that unfolded is 90% the fault of the Feds, primarily Bush and his cronies. (The other 10% is the notoriously racist NO cops, check flashpoints.net for some horrifying stories.)

        And of course the fact that the levees were not strengthened long before the hurricane lays almost exclusively at the door of the White House.

        But before the levees broke, I lay the blame equally on the Feds, the State, and the City. For fuck's sake, you know that huge proportions of the city has no ability to evacuate (you know this from Hurricane Ivan)and all you do is suggest the Superdome, and you provide zero in the way of medical personnel, security personnel, emergency supplies, any other supplies???

        A pox on all their houses if you ask me. Even if the Bush administration's response, after the level of catastrophe became clear, does deserve an even greater punishment and its own special level of hell.

        Make love not war because love is lovely and war is very ugly, ya know?-U Roy

        by Rojo on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 08:00:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Superdome and toilets (none / 0)

        I remember laughing out loud before the hurricane hit because I read an account of some official saying that one of the reasons the Superdome was a good shelter was because it had 120 bathrooms.  Yea, I thought, until the electricity goes out, the city floods and the sewer pumps stop!  I couldn't believe they didn't stop to think the bathrooms would be  worthless after the hurricane.
  •  some of those "kids with guns" (4.00 / 11)

    showed more leadership than the entire federal government.

    In a crisis, some people start making decisions and giving orders.  And some put all their focus on covering their own ass.  The American people are seeing the tragic effects of electing the latter to run the country.

    •  the sad thing is (4.00 / 2)

      those "kids with guns" are the distorted mirror image of traditional Anglo-American gun nuts.

      They've wary to the point of paranoia of the government;

      and they see the gun as the last guarantee of their personal safety and survival.

      Imagine a similar situation with a hodgepodge mix of mainly Anglo-Americans.  There too you'd have guys saying, 'we gotta get us some guns', and once armed, going on plundering operations, to look out for the community of survivors, such as it is.

      nil admirari (Don't be surprised at anything)

      by lampwicke on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 06:57:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Go rent 'Red Dawn' (none / 0)

        No need to imagine; the movie's already been made.

        I guess there was technically no plundering, but you get the idea.

      •  Maybe people are people regardless of race? (4.00 / 2)

        My own personal experience of men and women, black and white, armed and unarmed (I've recounted a little of my experience with armed young men before) has been that the behavior that the young men Ms. Moore describes is much more the way that women behave in a crisis than the way young men do.

        But I don't know. This story is entirely plausible but it's third hand. It rings entirely true to me. Except for the behavior of young men with guns.

        There. I've said it. Flame away.

        -9.0, -8.3. History is more or less bunk.--Henry Ford
        Henry Ford is more or less bunk.--history

        by SensibleShoes on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 07:28:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, no... (4.00 / 2)

          I think it makes sense.

          But you have to take the racial, economic, and cultural context into account.

          Think about it: why do the "gangstas" worship guns? They've been fucked with (or fear being fucked with, more likely) and don't feel they can rely on the government so they get guns and go around acting super-macho.

          The only part that doesn't fit, and that's only a maybe, is that once things started looking really bad they organized rationally along lines commonly respected more by "mainstream" society. But on the other hand: watching people around you die from lack of something like drinkable water has a way of suddenly providing a previously lacking perspective.

          The Shapeshifter's Blog -- Politics, Philosophy, and Madness!

          by Shapeshifter on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 08:27:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The rational organizing is actually (none / 1)

            100% in line with the cultural values of the African American community, despite the distorted depictions of us.  Remember the story of the 18 year-old who stole a bus and carted 100 people out of NO?  In that story, the young men on that trip pooled their money together and purchased two items: gas for the bus and formula for the babies.

            Placing old people first, and women and children next in the line to receive aid is not only believable, but is predictable of young African American men.  I'm not surprised at all.

            Wonder if "mainstream" society, which doesn't seem to prioritize the needs of the elderly to me, would have done the same.

        •  Well I remember hearing (none / 1)

          Last week some time that the young men at the convention center had organized the people so that the old and the young were out in front.

          In that report it was said that they hoped to attract attention to the gravity of their situation.

          It's bloody ironic that they even resorted to PR in order to make thier case.  Too bad they didn't have Rove.  They'd all have movie deals by now.

          The Next Agenda "For Progressive Canadian Politics"

          by Bionic on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 10:33:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Shot dead by the police (4.00 / 3)

    There was a photo in one of the NYC papers with an amazing caption, but no further explanation.

    Fiive or six adult men and women, all black, sitting amidst trash on a sidewalk - in front of the convention center maybe or at the underpass.  All exhausted and GLARING at the photographer.  

    In front of them in the street lay a body covered in a sheet.

    The caption explained that under the sheet lay a dead man, shot by the police, and the people on the sidewalk were his relatives.

    What happened there and why was he shot ?????

    •  Seems he crossed the street (4.00 / 6)

      when he wasn't permitted to do so. (If it is the same young man in this Reuters' article)

      "They killed a man here last night," Steve Banka, 28, told Reuters. "A young lady was being raped and stabbed. And the sounds of her screaming got to this man and so he ran out into the street to get help from troops, to try to flag down a passing truck of them, and he jumped up on the truck's windshield and they shot him dead."

      Wade Batiste, 48, recounted another tale of horror.

      "Last night at 8 p.m. they shot a kid of just 16. He was just crossing the street. They ran him over, the New Orleans police did, and then they got out of the car and shot him in the head," Batiste said.

      The young man's body lay in the street by the Convention Center's entrance on Saturday morning, covered in a black blanket, a stream of congealed blood staining the street around him. Nearby his family sat in shock.

      Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshall

      by bronte17 on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 07:03:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This sounds like (4.00 / 15)

        the man who was lying on the ground in a pool of congealed blood...on the Oprah show...the doctor uncovered him briefly and covered him back up. Didn't mention his story or anything about the cops. But he was shot and covered with a black blanket. Looked like velvet.

        Good God, I have heard and seen the worst of the worst today. From the 40,000 body count to the Oprah show showing stacks of bodies piled up on each other in a helicopter, placing dying people in a morgue to die in peace, my people being verbally abused and shot by police in the middle of a national disaster...

        Makes you want to hate white people until you see, also on Oprah, a tall white Texan gladly offering up his home to a black evacuated family...and then hugging them and sobbing with them.

        I've seen the best of America. Americans are good people, mostly, I believe, or want to believe. Those in our government are not.

        Kanye West was right. George Bush doesn't care about black people. George Bush doesn't care about people period unless they have many 0s in their bank accounts, a big ole ranch or two, an evil glimmer in their eye and a fabulous summer home.

        Good God...on Saturday I briefly bought into the media hype, because I needed to. After crying all week, I wanted to believe that we really had turned a corner and that those images of the military coming in really meant things would only get better.

        That is my weakness, wanting to hope for the best. Instead, I have seen and heard about the ugliest in America...the ugliest people, the ugliest actions, the ugliest rhetoric and the ugliest tactics, both political and physical. This week is worse than last and I think it will only get worse as long as the tyrant is in office.

        I used to feel using the word tyrant was an exaggeration...now I know I was right all along.

        This is a national trauma. I am at my breaking point...seething with anger, sadness and rage. The computer can only absorb so much of that and I can't wait until Sept. 24. Writing and calling and faxing my representatives is only doing so much. What to do, what to do, what to do, but cry, write and pray?

        i think they're attacking me cause i'm awesome. how's that??

        by missreporter on Tue Sep 06, 2005 at 08:06:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I feel the same way you do. Exactly. (4.00 / 2)

          Even though I'm white, and have lots of 0's. I've cried and felt on the verge of madness many times this week. I can't stand it if this is the kind of world they want for us. It's too grizzly to wrap my mind around, because I'm absolutely positive they intentionally withheld assistance as one of their political, spoiled frat boy pranks, to disgrace 'those Democrat New Orleanians', just to try to get them to vote Republican next time. They murdered thousands of people in political gamesmanship.

          Read this: FEMA: Federal Election Management Agency

        •  sdfas (none / 0)

          my only beef with kanye west is that he didnt go far enough. i have no problem with him telling the truth/"playing the race card". he just didnt tell the whole truth - bush doesnt care for anyone, black, hispanic or white.

          that is all, carry on :)

          every judgment teeters on the brink of error; claiming absolute knowledge is monstrous.

          by cafihapa on Wed Sep 07, 2005 at 04:08:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  This is what happens (none / 1)

    when pathological nutcases are in charge.

    This is disgusting. I'm emailing this to everyone I know.

  •  I just found evidence of this same (4.00 / 8)

    fear in a story on the BBC website, quite co-incidentially: Grim Journey. It is a very sad story. Some BBC reporters took their own boat and went in search of survivors. This is just part of the article, but it is worth reading:

    "'Maroon