FOX says Red Cross turned away by State officials

A new conservative talking point has emerged.  Apparently, Major Garrett of FOX News reported that the Red Cross and Salvation Army were ready to deliver food and water to the victims in New Orleans but were turned away by officials with the State of Louisiana because they did not want "to create an atomosphere that would lead people to stay."

Hugh Hewitt is banging the drum on this one.

I thought I would send up this Diary in the hopes of seeing what the response to this talking point is or should be.  (If this Diary is repetitive, I will of course it--but I've looked at the last 100 Diaries.)
 

Here is an excerpt of Hewitt's interview of FOX News's Major Garrett from Hewitt's Radioblogger website:

Major Garrett updates us on the Red Cross AND the Salvation Army being blocked from helping by Louisiana state officials

HH: Making an encore appearance, and we're very grateful for it, Major Garrett of Fox News Channel. Major, you certainly made waves yesterday. Perhaps the most reported story in America was yours. You followed up on it tonight. What has your investigation into the Red Cross relationship with the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security revealed today?

MG: A couple of things. First of all, it established on tonight's Special Report, that it wasn't just the Red Cross. It was the Salvation Army. Both agencies, both organizations were ready, prepared, pre-positioned, eager, but were thwarted in their efforts to bring supplies, basic supplies...not everything these people needed, but core supplies to the Superdome, and then eventually, the convention center. Why? Because the New Orleans [Louisiana] Department of Homeland Security said look. Our plan is to evacuate these people. Marty Evans, the President and the CEO of the American Red Cross, said on camera...you don't have to believe me. Believe her. You can read her own eyes, saying look. We were told if we came in, we would create an atmosphere that would lead people to stay, and give them the feeling that they should stay. And the state did not want that.

Now, FOX of Swiftboat fame is not the most reliable of sources but what should our response be?  The first answer off the top of my head is even if the Red Cross and Salvation Army were not allowed in, it was FEMA's responsbility to get in--and to coordiante all rescue and humanitarian efforts.  But I throw this out to the Kossacks who may have a bettter response.

•  If it's true...

  the local officials stand to be indicted. No one gets a free pass for this disaster. Where was Blanco when the people were not getting the help they needed, and were dying of dehydration? Where was Landrieu? No one gets a free pass. No one.

  by scorpiorising on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:31:19 PM PDT

  •  I agree

    but can what FOX is reporting be possibly true.

    by MKS on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:33:56 PM PDT

  •  it seems to be true

    and I agree, they should not get a free pass at all. This was one of the biggest mistakes made in the entire fiasco. The LA Dept of Homeland Sec has blood on their hands. I also think the Sheriff's Dept of Gretna, LA deserves alot of blame for not allowing people to cross the Mississippi river to get away from the convention center. The buck ultimately stops with the Bush administration and FEMA deserves a lion share of the blame (it's their job to coordinate all relief efforts and agencies, something they obviously did not do competently), but some state and local officials made some really horrendous decisions and they should be held accountable as well.

    by colinb on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:38:24 PM PDT

  •  absolutely

    I'm an Equal Opportunity Blame Gamer...

    Every level of government should be held accountable for action/inaction that contributed to human suffering, no matter which party is holding the seat.  I have zero tolerance for even a scintilla of partisanship about this  

    Going on record here as agreeing with the CNN chick who asked Pelosi about the blame for cuts in funding to SELA.  When Congress ignores basic infrastructure needs, they put the lives of citizens at risk.  It's that simple.

    And while I have some sympathy for the mayor in terms of the difficulty in evacuating thousands of citizens in thousands of homes (some of whom freely decided to risk staying), I cannot fathom how individuals in the care of the state were left in the city.  The most vulnerable citizens, patients in hospitals and nursing homes, should have been taken out of there before that storm reached land.  No excuses.    

    by willowby on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:50:09 PM PDT

    •  Cuba is great at hurricanes

      I agree with you about the responsibility of the mayor and governor in getting people out before the storm. (I posted as much earlier.) But then I thought about it. If you tried to get so many people physically out of the city -- you might end up with thousands on the highway in the midst of the storm. That has actually happened in Florida. People from Tampa left to go to Orlando  (what they believed was a safer spot) and ended up in the path of Charley which changed course at the last minute.

      Here is a great article on how Cuba does it:

      http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/09/Worldandnation/Can_we_learn_from_Cub.shtml

       

      by zenbot on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:12:01 PM PDT

    •  How?

      The most vulnerable citizens, patients in hospitals and nursing homes, should have been taken out of there before that storm reached land.

      Do you realize how many people in hospitals and nursing homes will die if not transported by ambulance? So, where do they get enough ambulances to transport those people out of harms way?  How far do they need to go in order to find another hospital  or nursing home to deliver the people?  Does every ambulance and paramedic get taken off the street to transport people out of hospitals New Orleans?  How many people die before the Hurricane even hits because for 48 hours before the hurricane all ambulances and paramedics are busy moving people out of New Orleans?  Even if every ambulance was used in 48 hours could every patient even be moved?  They opened both directions of the highway to traffic headed out of New Orleans.  If they held open one lane for returning ambulances how many people do not make it out due to traffic?

      Hospital beds can often be in short supply where do you put the people in nursing homes and hospitals?

      Look at how many people are still in New Orleans after two weeks of trying to evacuate the entire city.  Even after the storm resources are finite, and some one will end up deciding whether to spend resources moving people out of the shelter of last resort (Superdome, Convention Center) or likely greater resources per person to evacuate a hospital.  What is wrong is the resources were clearly not available in a timely manner to do anything.  And, there was no one making decisions.

      by Donner on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:16:28 PM PDT

      •  well that's the point, isn't it?

        >> What is wrong is the resources were clearly not available in a timely manner to do anything.  And, there was no one making decisions.

        City and state officials knew that evacuating the city was not just a possibility, but a probability, for how many years?  I'm all for holding the feds accountable for FEMA's gross failures, and the President for putting a total hack at that agency's helm.  But...

        A state plan should have been in place to ensure the evacuation of anyone in its care who could not leave of their own volition.  And if in planning it became clear that getting every patient out of the city was not realistic, then they should have had planned for that contigency as well.  

        I certainly have no knowledge of patient care, and don't mean to imply any.  But the accounts I've read about what happened in Charity Hospital make me livid, and a few have been written by the staff there.  Maybe a contingency plan could have included one central location for the most critical patients, stocked with adequate back-up supplies...maybe generators for hospitals in New Orleans should have been placed somewhere other than the basements...maybe the Governor should not have claimed on August 31 that Charity Hospital had been evacuated when nothing of the sort had yet been accomplished, while the staff was fending off looters' bullets.

        Nobody gets a pass with this man-made tragedy; and it seems clear that thorough planning for a mass evacuation, and contingency plans for the most vulnerable citizens, just didn't happen.

        The governor (and mayor) should be held responsible for the failures that were within their control.  And surely there are at least a few.

        by willowby on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:15:20 PM PDT

        •  I am lease impressed by the argument

          that state and local are guilty of not evacuating everybody.  That's an impossible standard.

          The percentage of people evacuated could be improved in almost any situation.  100% evcuation is impossible.  So there will always be room for criticism on this point.

          The thing is, most of the time these hurricane warnings/watches and calls for evacuation turn out to be either totally false alarms or exaggerations of the situation.  

          Now, you and I might say, that's not important, human lives are important, better safe than sorry, bla bla bla.  But the people who live in the gulf areas know this.  When they are forced into a position of leaving their home or gambling on the odds, many will take their chances based on what they consider an educated gamble.  Thus, there are always going to be people who refuse to evacuate.

          And every false alarm, false evacuation, makes it that much harder to make people take the next one seriously.

          The problem of poor people who WANT to evacuate but can't for reasons of money and logistics: that's a different problem.  The New Orleans SOP was to evacuate these people to the local Superdome (why is this called an evacuation?)  The efficiency of that should be reviewed.

          But all this crap about 100% evacuation is crap.  I probably wouldn't have left, either.  I worked too hard on my house.  Rather go down with the ship.

          by Dumbo on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:35:25 PM PDT

          •  well sure...

            but the point of my comment was the state's failure to evacuate the most vulnerable citizens in their care--patients in hospitals and nursing homes.

            >> why is this called an evacuation?

            Personally I blame the federal government most for the human suffering their indifference/incompetence/malice caused tens of thousands at the SuperDome (and Convention Center).

            But as far as I know, nobody drowned at the Superdome.  

            by willowby on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:44:43 PM PDT

      •  Evacuation risky for nursing home/intensive care

        Unfortunately, there are no easy answers to nursing homes and critically ill patients in hospitals.

        Transporting nursing home bound is no simple proposition. It can take many people to move one patient and they may need life support. In many cases, evacuation could pose a greater risk to those seriously ill than the hurricane. Of the 23 patients evacuated out of new orleans from one nursing home in a school bus, 3 died. That is close to 15%. For the average hurricane, it may be riskier to evacuate than stay put. Patients may die being evacuated for a storm that ultimately misses the facility. Or they may be evacuated into the path of the storm. It might be better to insure that nursing homes and hospitals are better able to weather the storm. In flood prone areas, they should be on high ground. Buildings should be hurricane resistant. They should have generators, fuel, staff, and emergency communication.

        Hundreds of patients who were evacuated to field hospitals that didn't have the staff or the equipment to care for them were basically triaged into the expectant category, given morphine, and left to die.

        Even without life support equipment, patients can be hard to move. A few hours after I had my abdomnial surgery , I could probably have physically evacuated myself as far as a bus out front if I had to (even though I stayed in the hospital another five days). Of course, without power for the IV pump and replacement IV bags (including antibiotics), I would have been at risk (but with appropriate supplies scavanged from the stockroom, I could have made do using gravity feed and even stitch myself back together if necessary). Fortunately, my appendix removal surgery was done laparoscopically. But many patients are much harder to move, physically. Two or three trained people might be able to physically move 110 pound grandma without too much trama but moving someone who weighs over 400lbs is no fun. Loading an invalid in a vehicle other than an ambulance or handicap van can get really tricky.

        The choice as to whether to evacuate should consider both the severity of the storm and the probability of it hitting and there should be plans for both evacuation and staying put.

        Now Katrina was worse than other storms in the area. So the normal plan might not apply.

        The state may have required nursing homes to have evacuation plans - unfortunately, even when they do, the nursing homes may not be properly prepared. Until recently, the top ranked google match for nursing home evacuation was: Nursing home evacuation plans - myth or reality. .

        Hospitals in flood zones that can't be on high enough ground should not put anything critical on the bottom couple floors. Not the emergency room, not the operating rooms, not intensive care, not hospital rooms for critical patients. You may want to install a long ramp to bring ambulances up to the third floor so you aren't relying on elevators, either.

        If you don't evacuate, there is also the question of whether people with half their lives ahead of them should put their lives at risk staying behind to care for people who are often basically waiting to die. Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't choice.

        In this case, I think I might have had national guard medical teams come in on a minor road that still had inbound traffic and evacuate the serious but moveable cases before the storm to hospitals or other homes further inland. In some cases, they might have ended up loading the entire bed and all equipment in the room on the back of a truck with a generator (don't have extreme cold to deal with, fortunately). But that is the kind of physical public service labor the national guard is for.

        by whitis on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 06:02:59 PM PDT

•  Facts

  We need the facts on this then we will know what to do. From what I can remember it was reported that it was F.E.M.A. From all the other stories it seems like it would be true given F.E.M.A 's way of handling things. Wasn't there a diary on this? A person called The Red Cross and she said F.E.M.A stopped them?

  Either way I agree that anyone who was lax should share the blame. It shouldn't matter who they are.

  by dynamicstand on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:45:15 PM PDT

  •  Nope, the Louisiana State officials

    have been accused of stoping the Red Cross and the Salvation Army.

    And I don't have the facts and am hoping someone else does.

    by MKS on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:48:12 PM PDT

  •  on the Red Cross site

    They had a note up a few days ago saying FEMA would not let them in.  FEMA.  Federal...

    by MN camera on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:48:26 PM PDT

    •  If you look closer at the site it said

      "state FEMA" whatever that means...

      by capelza on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:52:21 PM PDT

      •  "State Homeland Security Department"

        is what's on the Red Cross Web site.  And Fox reporting is now saying "Louisiana Department of Homeland Security".  However, the Louisiana agency is the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.

        Last week a Red Cross spokesperson told a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reporter that the orders had come from "The Homeland Security Department," which the reporter took, naturally enough, to mean the feds.

        I suspect the Red Cross came under pressure to blame the state authorities.  Since state and federal homeland security were probably working together, it was possible to do this.  So "The Homeland Security Department" was explained to mean the "state [Louisiana] Homeland Security department."

        by lysias on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:07:35 PM PDT

        •  Thanks

          I was going from Memory..which is apparantly a bit faulty.

          by capelza on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 11:55:34 AM PDT

    •  replying to myself as well

      OK - from the Red Cross FAQ:

      Access to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

      The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

      So, I apparently either misread or misremembered it - and apparently took the "National Guard" reference too seriously as well.

      Sorry 'bout that.

      by MN camera on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:20:22 PM PDT

      •  The key issue is when did this happen?

        Last week is one thing....Today would be another.

        by MKS on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:24:04 PM PDT

•  Does anybody know

   if there is a MSM source, or any source even close to mainstream, that has been reporting the story of
  the Sheriff's Dept of Gretna, LA  not allowing people to cross the Mississippi river to get away from the convention center?

  I forwarded the first hand account posted on dkos to my dad, and he called BS on it.  

  by Matilda on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:49:07 PM PDT

  •  I saw Shep Smith on FOX

    report live that it happened.  It was the only time I turned the blasted channel to that awful station.

    by MKS on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:51:56 PM PDT

    •  That must be why I missed it.

      Do you know if there is a print source, even if it just says that "Shep Smith of Fox news reported..."?

      I need something I could forward.  I supose there is zero chance Fox still has something up about it?
      

      by Matilda on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:57:44 PM PDT

      •  I can tell you

        that Smith's report was on the night of September 2, 2005.  Maybe a search at Fox would reveal a transcript.

        Here is my post at the Fairyblogmother's site of my reaction at the time. That may give a ballpark of the time of the report.  Since it was Sean Hannity who was the anchor at the time, I would look for transcripts of the Hannity (aka lack of sanity) & Colmes show from that night.

        by MKS on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:05:46 PM PDT

  •  Glenn Reynolds (bleh)

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3395977/

    by WA Engineer on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:59:40 PM PDT

    •  Thank you both!

      MKS and WA Engineer

      by Matilda on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:04:30 PM PDT

    •  That isn't an independant source.

      Glenn Reynolds at MSNBC cites the Political Teen who advertises blatantly right wing props. The Political Teen cites Faux News. That is a standard Rethuglican circular citation.

      by Tomtech on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:21:04 PM PDT

•  Did someone screen cap that?

  I thought it said FEMA too but now it says:

  "Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

  The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city. "

  Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

  by rigger on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:51:20 PM PDT

•  Accountability is not a Game

  should be our only "talking point" as you put it, this weekend.

  We are working to find out what went wrong to make it better.  The people playing politics are the people hiding under then claim of politics being played.

  If La. homeland security did this (as I believe the Red Cross website's have indicated that they did) then all responsible from that department should be held accountable, also.

  In the long run, I think that this much is clear:

  The Mayor can ONLY be held accountable for anything that happened up to the hurricane strike.  Was he remiss in not getting more people out/to the Superdome? We'll know the answer later, but don't let them start lumping these multiple parishes of victims under his blame.  Then, as soon as the first storm surge hit, it's the Governor and the Feds who are held responsible.  That's why there are two disasters here.  The natural disaster of unprecedent proportion that took the lives of thousands, and the failure of FEMA, La.EMA, Blanco, and Bush to respond quickly enough to the needs on the ground to comfort and aid the survivors, which led to the preventable loss of the lives of hundreds.

  Let's spread the message of accountability and let them know that they cannot hide behind the Blame Game Game.

  by sydopus on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:52:52 PM PDT

•  Coworker said she heard the same thing

  Sad that folks are using this point to give FEMA a pass on all this.

  by Alegre on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:57:19 PM PDT

•  It was clear from the reporting at the time

  and you will find several diaries contemporanious with the events (forgive lousy spelling) in Daily Kos archives.  A couple of people called the Red Cross directly and asked, is it true you are not in New Orleans?  True, true was the answer with a variety of attendent rationalizations.

  I was screaming at the TV set at the time.  The reportage was so good you could actually understand the events on the ground not that you wanted too.

  by Last Lemming on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:03:19 PM PDT

•  this is *at least* the third diary on this

  I've seen in the last 2 days.  I think it's a high priority that we find out what the facts are.  If the Governor-D is responsible, then that needs to get out.  HOWEVER (and this is a terrible indictment for what passes as news on FOX and others, and the lack of trust I have in it), the facts need to be vetted somehow.

  by billlaurelMD on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:05:25 PM PDT

  •  Oops!

    but I did make the effort to see if this had been Diaried before.  And I ran a couple of searches on this subject but they timed out on me....We are apparently as without answers as we were before....not that we can always have instant answers.

    I would delete this but there is a link above in response to a request for information that should probably remain.

    by MKS on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:16:22 PM PDT

•  Look, it's clear that mistakes were made

  That go far beyond the federal level.

  Katrina was called a perfect storm... in how it was able to reach Cat 5 at one point and also how it struck at just the right angle for the storm surge to cause maximum devastation.

  But there appears to have been a SECOND perfect storm and that is how so many officials managed to fuck up all at once up and down every level of government.

  History books will show that this was one of the lowest moments for America.

  by diplomatic on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:16:49 PM PDT

  •  "Look, it's clear that

    "Look, it's clear that mistakes were made."

    We better have a better answer than that!

    I don't want us to start using the same passive language that the Bushies do when they fuck up.

    That sheriff in Gretna needs to be fired.  The Red Cross thing... I don't know what to think yet.

    by Dumbo on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:50:43 PM PDT

    •  Me neither

      but anyway my complete statement was

      "Look, it's clear that mistakes were made that go far beyond the federal level"

      I don't want us giving anyone a pass for incompetence, that's all.

      by diplomatic on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:00:15 PM PDT

•  When the levee broke

  All hell broke loose. The red cross are volunteers not first responders. It was the responsibility of the feds to drop supplies and secure the area before allowing volunteers in. If Blanco ordered the red cross to stand fast--  it was protocol.

  by illuminaupolis on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:24:10 PM PDT

•  Diaried yesterday with corrections n/t

  by DrKate on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:40:31 PM PDT

  •  Thanks

    Do you have a link?--trying to find old Diaries is very hard right now with so many Diaries right now.

    by MKS on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:42:05 PM PDT

•  Put up or shut up

  We need to get them to name names.  Who exactly in the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security.  It's a tiny office, so there are not very many people to pick from.  "Officials" is such bullcrap.  We are willing to name names but all the Bush apologists do is engage in disingenuous obfuscatory puffery.

  by Subversive on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:41:00 PM PDT

•  Am I the first

  to point out that Homeland Security, "state" office or not, is still federal? I only skimmed the comments, I'm sorry.

  The fault is still federal, but if Fox is trying to suggest otherwise, then fuck them!

  by alextmw on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:41:34 PM PDT

  •  Notice the capitalization!

    On the original source they do not capitalize state. The State Homeland Security Office would be a state agency.

    The state Homeland Security Officer is a Federal position which works in the state.

    by Tomtech on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:27:51 PM PDT

•  Media Matters has a partial answer

  See this article.

  by MKS on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 10:09:20 AM PDT