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This is a rare "down" day for me, no book tour events, no media to do, and I got to sleep in my own bed (and sleep I did, I was down at 8 p.m. last night).

This morning I've scanned some of the going ons of the last few days (I'm completely out of touch when on the road), and I noticed the dustup over long front page posts. Here's my "official" response: tough shit. If 400 words is too much for you to handle, then you've got a coupe of options: 1) Read the funnies. Not a lot of words there; 2) learn to scroll down a page; 3) get an RSS reader and set it to read just headlines. No extraneous words in headlines; or 4) find a site that better suits your style.

The irregulars are under orders from me NOT to use the extended copy box. So if you've got a problem with that, your problem is with me, not them. And I won't change my policy on that. My god, what would some of you complainers have done back in the Billmon era? Now there were some epic FP posts!  

  • TAP profiles Ned Lamont.

  • This sucks. Arrested Development is officially dead. Its creator decided he was done, even though both ABC and Showtime were interested in picking it up.

  • Jane's got Ramesh Ponnuru's back, even though he's already furiously trying to deny the book is about what its cover says it is.

  • Fuck this!

  • Remember the end of the quarter is fast approaching. If you're going to contribute to your favorite candidate, now's the time to do it. Here's the netroots endorsed list, but there are lots more like them that need to show a strong end-of-quarter performance.

  • MoveOn is doing virtual phonebanking for Francine Busby in the CA-50 special election. The 250 volunteers who contact the most voters will get a free copy of Crashing the Gate.

  • Funny how everything is bloggable these days, and our tour is no different. Adam Conner, who did the planning for our great GW event on Monday, has pictures up at his Flicker site. PoliticsTV has video. Raising Kane blogged it, as did diarist RenaRF. Meanwhile, Salon has a cover story/review of the book, pairing it with Glenn Reynold's An Army of Davids.

  • The Salon reviewer doesn't like An Army of Davids. I'm almost done with it, and while it has its moments of silliness, I'm actually enjoying it. Of course, I am enamored by the notion of people-powered anything, and at the root, that's the point of Reynold's book. Its forays into politics can grate, but outside of the political sphere, there's much there to like. I'll have more to say once I finish the book.

  • Doctors remove two fetuses from infant. It was triplets, with two of them growing inside the other. That sound you hear is the heads of anti-abortion fanatics exploding.

  • Phoenix didn't lose Air America for too long. It's back.

  • Scott McClellan doesn't know who the Prime Minister of Canada is, even though PM Stephen Harper is a Bushbot.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 01:57 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  And Gilliard (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ed in Montana

    I started reading DKos at the time when Steve often limited his posts at Daily Kos to no more that 2,700 words.  

    The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

    by Dana Houle on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 01:53:53 PM PST

  •  Daily Kos (7+ / 0-)

    The USA Today of the blog world...

    C'mon, Kos!  What's wrong with extended entries?

  •  Goodbye. (5+ / 0-)

    2% of your most loyal readers registered approval of long posts. If that's your attitude to them, so long.

    •  don't let the door hit you on the way out! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      terminal3, kraant

      Oh wait, there's no door here.

      "To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears."
      -Octavia Butler, 1947-2006

      by Leggy Starlitz on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:08:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't sweat it (20+ / 0-)

      There's going to be a bit more kerfluffle.  Watch for the next spat of angry diaries.  People will get troll rated, tempers will flare, sides will be taken,  Markos will eventually apologize for the tenor though not the intent of his message shortly after someone here goes and starts their own blog.  Then people will look back and laugh about the "500 word fight" and newbies will say, "What was that?"

      A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.

      by Webster on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:09:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What the hell kind of attitude is that? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DaveV, bartman, kraant

        This is the sort of apathy that has given us Iraq, NSA spying, endemic corruption and discrimination against women and gays. You are enabling Bush's America. Stand up for what you believe in, dammit! I, for one, will not sit idly by while you and people like you try to hijack this site for whichever side of the issue you are on. I believe in this community, and I will resist your efforts to cheapen it and subject it to your crypto-fascism, whatever it takes, no matter if I have to type mean-spirited comments until my fingerprints are smooth as polished ivory.

        What's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq? Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

        by strandedlad on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:39:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •   already (0+ / 0-)

        I'm already trying to figure out what the big deal is now?

        Do I always agree with Kos? No. Do I recognize that the site is his baby and think he has the right to run it the way he sees fit? Yep.

        That said, I think kos could be a bit more diplomatic (cough cough). He's probably tired though and not feeling very diplomatic. He probably won't feel very diplomatic until after his whirlwind schedule winds down and he settles into his new house ;).

    •  Keep in mind (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      msstaley, Dazy, mrblifil, JPete

      The dynamics of the front page and the diaries is totally different.

      Jerome wrote a diary talking about this[1]. A lot of people don't even look at diaries or even the reccomended list. For their sake it makes a lot of sense to have the entire article posted on the front page instead of under an extended copy, even though for us dkos junkies it makes more sense to have front page articles with an extended copy so more articles can be fit on the front page.

      [1]Anyone got a link to it hotlisted or the search-fu to find it?

      Don't be a fuckhead! HTH k thnx

      by kraant on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:12:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wow (9+ / 0-)

      All the evils in the world and you are most offended by post length!?!

      Priorities, man!

      Accountability. It's what's for dinner.

      by By The Root on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:20:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not cool KOS (42+ / 0-)

      I'm not planning to say Goodbye over this but KOS that just ain't cool.

      I have a lot of respect for you, but your response is seriously out of line.  Yeah it's your site, that's great, and you can do what you want, but your response shows a basic lack of respect for the millionish readers you get every day.  Do you have to do what people ask?  Of course not, but don't be a dick about it.

      If you've made an editorial decision, that none of us knew about, to have full posts like that, fine.  But don't fly off the handle at people since we didn't know that was a concious decision.  People expressed their opinions on the subject, and rather than considering that we might all have a point, your response is "tough shit".  

      --- If trickle down economics worked, Marie Antoinette wouldn't have lost her head

      by sterno on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:56:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (30+ / 0-)

        For a fucking youngster who just wrote a book about how the Democrats need to become more responsive the the "common people," he sure does seem to need to pull his head out of his ass right now.

        If you can't take the heat Kos, then get out of the fucking kitchen. Someone made a polite, good-faith comment on their opinion of what could make the site better. Most people (companies/politicians/whatever) consider that kind of constructive criticism to be valuable feedback. Companies spend hundreds of millions on marketing research to get that kind of feedback.

        And all you can say is "tough shit."

        Well done.

        congratulations on your foreskin -- osteriser

        by bartman on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:10:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Rove would be proud, though. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SarahLee, DaveV, Moli, Easterling

        Kos must have been reading too much of the stuff that comes out the White House: his response has an almost Rovian flavor to it!

      •  Try walking in his shoes perhaps? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        By The Root, kraant

        All up and down this thread people are so outraged about this decision and the way Markos put it.  To that I say get over it.

        Can you imagine for just a minute all the email he probably gets on a daily basis, some of it worth a damn but a lot of it probably babbling bullshit?  Not to mention the fact that he has been on a nonstop book tour for a while?

        Cut him a break.  It is his site and his decision anyway.

        Take your country back one dollar at a time at
        -5.88 -6.87

        by Raven Brooks on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:53:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  not his site anymore (0+ / 0-)

          This site doesn't belong to kos anymore, really, and the last thing the progressive community needs is a celebrity.  Sorry, but we've got more important things to do than think about kos' tribulations these days.  Let's think about people without health care, or the demonstrators who marched against the immigration proposals, or the soldiers in Iraq, or anybody else who's faceless and voiceless.  

          All kudos to kos for starting this up, but I come here to read the diaries posted by ordinary people.  And I don't care what the book tour is like.  (I've been on one, and I sympathize.)  

          kos' tone is intemperate, and that doesn't wear well in the long run.  I contrast that to Christy Hardin (Reddhead)'s superb performance on C-Span the other day.  Calm, articulate, warm, and totally winning.  Her blog (and Jane Hamsher's) - firedoglake -reflects those qualities as well. We need to build a community, and we won't do that by elevating individuals, much less kowtowing to them.

          •  Sorry, but that's funny (0+ / 0-)

            Christy Hardin (Reddhead)'s superb performance on C-Span the other day.  Calm, articulate, warm, and totally winning.  Her blog (and Jane Hamsher's) - firedoglake -reflects those qualities as well. We need to build a community, and we won't do that by elevating individuals

          •  Good Lord, man (0+ / 0-)

            That's not what he said.  He said that there would be extended posts on the front page.  For them what don't know how to diary, that's the way to grow the community.  For them what do, what's the problem?  

            I's don' get it...

            PS:  Redd and Jane are may main squeeze!

            Liberal Engineer

            by HinTN on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:43:26 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Fine... (0+ / 0-)

            Let's think about people without health care, or the demonstrators who marched against the immigration proposals, or the soldiers in Iraq, or anybody else who's faceless and voiceless.  

            Fine, so why are people complaining about the length of front page posts then?  Perhaps Markos agrees with you but is less tolerant of bullshit?

            Take your country back one dollar at a time at
            -5.88 -6.87

            by Raven Brooks on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 06:08:11 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  More Importantly (7+ / 0-)

        I am about to lose TU status, because I have nothing to say, and I know it.  I'm just waiting for the axe to fall.  Do you think I can come up with pithy goodness or righteous rage just like that?   Oh, here, how about this: "How dare you call my Prime Minister a Bushbot!?!?  Damn you Kos.  Damn you all to Hell!!!"  That OK?  No, I know; it's weak.    

        Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving: it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.--Thomas Paine

        by peterborocanuck on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:03:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Absolutely agree (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maryb2004, Moli, HK, bartman

        Kos's attitude sucks. Shows a lack of respect for lots of his readers.

        I never voiced my opinion, but I prefer the extended copy version of Kos. You could fit more on the front page and I could read just enough of the post to see if I wanted to read more. Usually I did, but sometimes I didn't think the article warranted my time.

        I have a limited amount of time to read each day. The old version of the front page was easier to deal with.

        But whatever.

        The world is weary of statesmen whom democracy has degraded into politicians.

        by JenD on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:32:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  A decision no one knew about? (0+ / 0-)

        Hmmmm, that doesn't sound right.

        But what is the reality?

        EVERYTIME that a Front Pager has been challenged over the length of their posts, they have clearly stated that it was Markos's rule that they were following - I have seen that said REPEATEDLY!

        ...but not your own facts.

        by slouise217 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 06:20:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  cut him slack (0+ / 0-)

        He's probably really really tired. I know I'm not at my happy smiley best when I haven't been acquainted with my bed for a bit ;)

    •  ONLY 2%?? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DaveV, By The Root

      Only that many approve of long posts? What is this - America at its best living by the length of the 15 second commercial?

      Why do I have this nagging feeling that John Kerry would have done much better in the last election had he skipped the long oral essays and simplified (better even than GWB) things into short, understandable sound bites: Me Good, Bring Change - Bush Bad, Economy Screwed, Iraq "Cheneyed"?

    •  It wasn't that we wanted shorter posts... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SarahLee, DaveV, kraant

      I simply would like to see a bit more in the extended box so I could click to read the rest...

      some days those fp posts just FLY down the page and I don't know what I'm missing...

      •  Actually there are always precisely 12 (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peeder, Elise, kraant

        stories on the front page regardless of how long and "above the Fold" they are.

        •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          The LENGTH of the FP diaries and stories do not affect ANYTHING at all except that one must turn the scroll wheel or hit the mouse button a couple more times.

          It's a non-issue.

          So, it appears that MOST are upset that Markos still runs this site according to HIS desires.

          And, as he said, tough shit.

          ...but not your own facts.

          by slouise217 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 06:23:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Actually... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ROGNM, Elise
          the default is 12, you can change the number of front page stories showing by changing it in your preferences.  Just go to your page, click the my profile tab, click the Display Prefs and change away.  I know it will go up to at least 25, I don't think i've actually tried to have more listed at once than that.

          Oh yes, and as a general response to this mid-afternoon stomp down of a "kossack", Kos is an ass and I hope any other poor member of the site who has a "gentle request" to any of the front pagers doesn't get the same sort of treatment.  

          I can't decide if it was more like a five year old's response or a neo-con site response.  


          Home is where the cat is

          by HK on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 06:40:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Kos' Dean Scream (14+ / 0-)

      Well Kos what are you going to do now?

      I listened to you on Al Franken yesterday and you were very poised. You did a good job of discussing what was wrong with the Democratic Party establishement and what we need to do to take back our party. I agreed with what you said and found it very inspiring.

      You obviously have political ambitions. If not as a candidate yourself, then as a reformer of the process. What you have accomplished with this blog has be terrific.

      But you have a problem on your hands.

      Whether you meant "tough shit" and "find a site that better suits your needs," you have said something that really rubs people, your people, your constituency, the wrong way.

      So, what are you going to do about it?

      I remember the Dean Scream. Was it fair? Was it unfair? Was he tired? Did they take it out of context? Use a shotgun mic? It didn't matter. What was important was that he didn't respond immediately. He thought he could let it blow over.

      One of the big lessons in life and certainly in politics is that if you make a mistake, you have to confront it. It is called damage control.

      So what are you going to do now?

      •  In my book - find a site that suits you better (12+ / 0-)

        means I really don't give a damn what any of you think, this is my site and I'll run it any fucking way I choose. And, that in my book is no way to run a democracy. I have started to click on the recommended list on the right side to see if there is a site I like better, so far Firedoglake suits me fine. She's a woman too and may have a little more couth and diplomacy. Not nice Mr. Kos.  I am old enough when told to just leave, to do just that. I am truly offended by that response. Next time sleep before you post. I thought you said the ass wasn't really kicked? that so! harad to believe.

        •  Bye (0+ / 0-)

          Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

          If you want to be able to vote for someone that believes everything that YOU do, run for office yourself.

          If you want dinner made a certain way, do it yourself instead of going to a restaurant.

          If you want a political website to follow YOUR dictates and guidelines, create your own.

          If you are NOT willing to "Do It Yourself", then you must live with the best fit you can find.

          And if DailyKos is NOT that fit, then feel free to move on.

          ...but not your own facts.

          by slouise217 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 09:29:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And if you don't like America (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Leave.  Isn't that what comes next?

            God, you sound.  Rrrr...  Reeeppp.... Reeepppubbb.... Can't say it.

            •  Get a clue, please (0+ / 0-)

              Using common sense to argue against a foolish statement is NOT a Republican trait.

              We DON'T get to vote for someone who agrees with ALL of our positions, do we?

              Almost NONE of us even find a spouse with whom we agree about everything - you think you're gonna find a candidate that does?

              You think that the fact that DailyKos is NOT everything that EVERY PERSON wants is a Republican concept?

              Please get a clue. Really.

              THAT person that I was replying to had SAID they were leaving. I did NOT tell them to go.

              If you DON'T like America, and are NOT happy with everything here, and CANNOT accept that it is NOT everything that you want, and YOU say that YOU are going to look for another more hospitable place, I will say the SAME FUCKIN' thing - don't let the door hit your ass on your way out of the country.

              So, get a clue, or some reading comprehension lessons, or something!

              ...but not your own facts.

              by slouise217 on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 05:14:11 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Why so hostile? (0+ / 1-)
                Recommended by:
                Hidden by:

                Another Republican trait.  You know, there's this place called RedState that might be more your style.  Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

                •  Why so hostile? (0+ / 0-)

                  Because YOU baselessly suggested that what I said sounded Republican when in fact it sounded anything BUT Republican.

                  And since when is hostility a Republican trait?

                  And since I was NOT hostile anyway, your accusation is 100% invalid.

                  Your assertion was that leaving America would the next logical step, and you ridiculed that idea. But in fact that IS the next step, and I was quite willing to extend the common sense to THAT point also.

                  Some people can argue the facts, and debate the issues.

                  Other people can only throw insults.

                  People who cannot debate the facts make personal attacks. Thanks for telling all of us which side of the fact fence YOU come down on.

                  ...but not your own facts.

                  by slouise217 on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 03:52:36 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Is it ever proper to make a suggestion (0+ / 0-)
                    to make DKos better?  Yes or no.
                    •  Is it proper to express YOUR opinion? (0+ / 0-)

                      Of course it is.

                      The question is NOT 'making a suggestion that will make DailyKos better.'

                      It's YOUR judgment that THIS change will make DailyKos better.

                      It's the opinion of the OWNER of the site that it will NOT. It's the opinion of the OWNER of this site that he is NOT interested in making that change - maybe he even thinks it COULD improve the site, but HE doesn't want to improve it in that way - I don't know.

                      But it's HIS decision.

                      And plenty of Front Pagers had ALREADY told you that it was PER Markos' instructions that they were NOT putting stuff below the fold.

                      I have NO problem with ANYONE saying that to take care of BOTH the people who read ALL of a FP'ers entry AND for those people that only want to read the condensed version, it would be a good idea to write like you were producing a paper for a school teacher, and include your main points in the first paragraph or two. And I doubt that THIS kind of constructive criticism would be rejected by any FP'er.

                      What YOU did was different than that, and YOU know it!

                      And you did NOT just stop at making a suggestion. You THEN asserted that by "ignoring" the groundswell opinions that everyone wanted some different set-up on the Front Page, Markos was doing something wrong.

                      It is NEVER wrong to state YOUR opinion.

                      It IS wrong to assume that a change that in YOUR opinion WILL improve a site will, in fact, improve the site.

                      It IS wrong to assume that this is a Democratically-run site, and votes by ANY portion of the community in a non-scientific poll, with obviously biased poll answer choices, should influence the owner of this site! Those poll votes MIGHT influence the owner, BUT it is the LEAP in LOGIC from making an intial suggestion and then going on to do what YOU did.

                      ...but not your own facts.

                      by slouise217 on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 08:18:01 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Do you think that DKos (0+ / 0-)

                        is part of a grassroots movement?

                        •  Nope (0+ / 0-)

                          The PEOPLE here are.

                          DailyKos is a site run by Markos.

                          Sorry you apparently are too dense to see the difference.

                          ...but not your own facts.

                          by slouise217 on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 10:55:09 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  That's like saying... (0+ / 0-)

                            The PEOPLE are here.  America is country owned and run by corporations and the property-holding class.  So, little peon -- don't you dare ever dissent.  Just keep working for the Lord of the Manor like a good little serf.  And if you don't like it, "tough shit!"

                            If you don't see the parallel, it is you who are dense.

                            Wake up!  This is a movement.  DKos ain't the only horse in the race, but it's out in front by a good margin.  If Kos doesn't learn to treat us with respect (he certainly doesn't have to agree, but respect is not optional), then it looks like DKos might fade in the finish.

                            Over and out.

                          •  Boy, you really ARE an A #1 troll, aren't you? (0+ / 0-)

                            There IS a grass roots movement.

                            It is made up by PEOPLE.

                            Some of those people hang out here at DailyKos.

                            That's different than saying that DailyKos is the grass roots movement - NO Website is a grass roots movement - the movement is ALWAYS the people in ANY organization.

                            I never said that there was not a movement.

                            Gosh, you are even denser than I thought!

                            And Markos doesn't need to give us ANY respect.

                            If we don't like his attitude or his site or the way he manages his site, we can leave.

                            Respect from him for OUR desires IS optional.

                            And that was the WHOLE freakin' point of HIM saying "tough shit"! HE chooses to NOT give us ANY rights to control his behavior about how he runs the site.

                            Sorry that his VERY clear message went right over your head - repeatedly.

                            But I gotta say, tough shit. If YOU cannot understand this, then YOU need to try harder.

                            ...but not your own facts.

                            by slouise217 on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 07:39:36 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  see my rant in the diaries (0+ / 1-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Hidden by:

                            it's silently dedicated to you.

                          •  Thanks for the troll rating. (0+ / 0-)

                            To be hated by someone like you is a sign that I'm doing the right thing.

          •  I do not see why you need to be so offensive? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Kos said in no uncertain terms that if one did not like the decisions he made one was free to leave, frankly the manner in which he said that was offensive to many, including me. He has further compounded that by saying he was surprised people were offended by being told to leave if they didn't like his tone. That hardly adds to the debate in my opinion. That is the kind of dialogue one hears in the playground. I cannot quite see how that translates into leaving the country? that is a long leap even for for an angry person. Actually, I should add that Kos in fact did me a huge favour. I had got very lazy and was using DailyKos as a bit of a security blanket, because I found the comments amusing and they often brightened my day, I rarely even read the diaries, it was the reactions I found enlightening. Sort of why I listen to CSPAN's Washington JOurnal - pulse of the people. However, again, I am not one to stick around when I am told in no uncertain terms to love it or leave it.  I have been surfing around the Kos list and have found several other sites that I have bookmarked, currently browsing through Billmon, he's good!  and although certainly I shall continue to visit kos, I can no longer feel welcome, therefore the natural thing to do is to seek other places where I can feel welcome.  I am really sorry, because I thought the energy behind this site was positive, but recently it has just become another place for people to vent. There is more than enough anger to go around. witness this immigration brouha - it is sickening me. The hatred that is bubbling is toxic. Maybe I should leave the country.  Mexico is wonderful and the people are kind and gentle and generous hardworking folk.

            •  It was your SUPPORTER who said leave the country (0+ / 0-)

              Gosh, reading comprehension is in SUCH SHORT SUPPLY at times!

              Kos' statements are NOT intended to further the debate.

              They were CLEARLY intended to END the debate, by saying that THERE WILL BE NO DEBATE on that subject!

              His comment was very easy to understand.

              Yet you STILL don't get it! Amazing.

              If you do NOT LIKE that he has dictatorial powers, go elsewhere, to another site, where you are not oppressed by his dictatorial powers. Feel free!

              You were NEVER told to 'love it or leave it'. You WERE told "live with it or leave it".

              And you TOLD US that you were leaving, because you could not live with it.

              So don't. Go elsewhere. Be happier at another site.

              But DON'T expect THIS site to suit your needs in this way. Markos explicitly told you, and others, that very thing.

              And as I said, if YOU want to find a site that is EXACTLY what YOU want, then YOU had best create it yourself. We ALL have to find the best fits for ourselves, and that almost ALWAYS involves some compromises. If this is a deal-breaker for you, then feel free to leave.

              And if you re-read my first reply post to you, you will see that THIS is exactly what I said there.

              ...but not your own facts.

              by slouise217 on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 04:00:27 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Ah, sweet irony (0+ / 0-)

              Billmon is the former front-pager here who used to post 3,000-word posts ... without using the extended text box.

              •  I like Glenn Greenwald too (0+ / 0-)

                however not being a member of the `inner sanctum' or founding members at DKos I have no way of knowing whether that is ironical too. Net society begins to resemble boarding school! except as I recall (it was soooo long ago) we had better manners.

      •  This Place Cracks Me Up (9+ / 0-)

        Less than 10% of the people who visit Daily Kos even open up a single diary, and a small percentage of those who do have decided that it's horrible--I mean, just HORRIBLE--that they have to sroll down the page to read the posts.  By showing his exasperation for people complaining that they have to sroll down the page to read the posts, he's now Karl Rove, he's uttered the Dean Iowa scream, he's sabotaged his non-existent political aspirations, etc, just because he wants to make sure that the 90% of DKos readers who never open another page will be more likely to read posts in their entirety.  

        Never mind the bizarreness of some of the people complaining about the length of the posts, as if they want DKos to become more like USA Today.  

        The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

        by Dana Houle on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:48:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think it is that he showed exasperation (0+ / 0-)

          If it were exasperation that would be one thing. The issue doesn't matter at all. It is the public perception of the personal behavior that matters.

          Take the Dean example, who could have blamed Dean? In fact, as we know, a shotgun mic was used to completely mischaracterize the event. It didn't matter. People were shocked and surprised and reacted negatively. It took on a life of its own.
          If that's Kos' intent then he should stick by his guns. All I'm saying that some damage control might be in order.

          •  Damage control for what? (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ablington, peeder, Dick Woodcock, kraant

            I think you are vastly overestimating the damage from that comment.  I'm sure people demand (and have demanded) that Markos do certain things on the site since the beginning.  As long as I've been around this is the response things get that are stupid, annoying, petty, unimportant, choose your advjective.  Yet somehow he has managed to become the largest blog on the internet.

            That would lead one to believe that it doesn't really matter and he is going to run things the way he sees fit and when he wants feedback on how something works he'll ask.

            He's made it through making unpopular comments for a number of groups and special interests and saying "tough shit" about length of front page posts is going to bring it all down?

            Take your country back one dollar at a time at
            -5.88 -6.87

            by Raven Brooks on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:10:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  OK (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DaveV, kraant

              That's fine then.

            •  lol (5+ / 0-)

              thanks for providing perspective. The offended always have a much bigger sense of self-importance than is ever the case.

              I've taken on much tougher groups than the "we can't scroll down the page" crowd.

              For four years, there have always been those who think they could do things better. But they don't.

              For four years there are those who are offended by my "tone". And to them, as always, I shrug my shoulders. You don't like it, it's a big internet. Go where they posts are short and no one offends anyone.

              What surprises me is that people still are shocked and get offended when I push back.

              •  Look, I'm a reasonable guy (5+ / 0-)

                I'm just a dude who checks this site each evening when I get home from work, to see if there are any interesting news stories that I missed during the day.  And when I noticed the other day that the subject of long front-page posts was being discussed, I thought to myself, "Yeah, that's something I've noticed too.  It seems like the posts are really getting long."

                Now I'm sure there are a lot of people who made this point in a rude or forceful manner.  And I assume those are the people who were on your mind when you wrote "tough shit."  But I hope you can see how that would rub some of us the wrong way.  I'm not some moron who can only handle the funnies; 400 words is not too much for me to handle.  I just happened to agree with those who suggested that using the extended copy box would improve the site.

                A lot of us simply wanted to help better this site.  I think had you responded with that in mind, you probably would have come off a bit more civil.

              •  push back? (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                maryb2004, DaveV, bartman

                Nobody was "pushing" in the first place.  That's the point.  Hell, you can take whatever tone you like, here or anyplace else.  Who cares?  It was a community discussion, as far as I could tell.  It never had anything to do with you.

                Hot Flash Hell - One Woman's View of Politics, Culture and Hormonal Imbalance

                by PHeggerUT on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 07:42:16 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  But He Undercut His Own Point (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jibsail, ppr, HellofaSandwich

          Markos says here, "If 400 words is too much for you to handle," go someplace else.  But many of the front page posts lately aren't even remotely close to being in the 400-word range.  A fair percentage clock in at well over 600 words, and a not insignificant number tally well over 900 words, so it seems that he's making something of a straw-man argument.  I will chalk this up to his being a bit tired and thus cranky from all his recent travel, and being kept away from his family.

          And I think most folks -- including Markos -- would concede that 900-1000 words is indeed a rather large amount.  A typical NYT or WaPo op-ed column only runs to about 750.

          •  I Don't Concede That At All (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            And by mentioning Billmon, I think it's clear that Markos doesn't either.

            Really, I don't write for people who can't handle more than 750 words.  If that's too much to handle, you're not my audience.  

            The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

            by Dana Houle on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:20:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Some of us (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              maryb2004, DaveV, bartman

              work. Me, lots of hours every day.  Between patients, I log on and hit the news and some blogs. Time is important to me and profitable, so I like tight concise, current pieces.

              That's it. Not about 'attention span', 'can't handle' or 'read the funnies'.

              I go to other sites too and on those, as here, the writing is excellent, if I have the time to read.

              "Every generation needs a new revolution."Thomas Jefferson

              by Maddie05 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:49:30 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Jesus, can folks READ or what? (4+ / 0-)

                The point wasn't long posts.

                The point was to have a bit more of it below the fold so it's easier to read, etc.

                Furthermore, I imagine that the front pagers, what with the pace of the news and the cite, may be a bit overwhelmed by how MUCH and how OFTEN they need to post now.

                The fact is that they may have posted that much before, but now, I bet they feel under some pressure, at the very least.

                It's going to take some time for THEM to adjust, and Georgia10 did a GREAT job of managing the critique and truly listening and responding to the comments.  She is to be truly commended.

                Sadly, Kos doesn't support his FP foks, by telling people tough shit, for something that they didn't really complain about in the first place.

                I think the issue here, and I am willing to BET that the FP folks don't feel that they have as much time to review, edit and tighten their pieces as they have been accustomed to doing in the past.

                The problem isn't one of long posts, or writing.  The problem is that the posts could use a bit of judicious editing.  The lede can get buried, and that's the point.

                But a little patience on all fronts could be helpful.  The FP folks are still adjusting to the pace.  Kos is adjusting to the book pace and trying to support his writers (but THAT doesn't need to happen at the expense of the readers).

                It takes some time.

                •  I Read Very Well (0+ / 0-)

                  And many people did complain about the length of the posts, period.  Yes, some said the lenghts were fine, but split them up with the extended view.  But many others complained that posts are too long, and are doing the same thing on this thread.

                  So, can you read, and see that not everyone was making the same exact argument?

                  The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

                  by Dana Houle on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:14:35 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  But That's Not the Point (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DaveV, HK, tzt, bartman

              The original gentle request wasn't about the length of front-page stories per se, but about the amount that appears on the front page rather than after a break.  Considering that we diarists are limited to under 1150 characters (approx. 200 words) before being forced into "extended copy", all that was asked for was a recognition that sometimes, you can have too much of a good thing.  As the New Diaries page recognizes, "If your diary entry is longer than three paragraphs, use the extended entry box. Be considerate and don't clutter up the Diaries home page with epic entries."

              Additionally, from a design standpoint, really long front page entries can be a turnoff for new readers.  Using a broadsheet newspaper as an example, practically no one would suggest that most major stories run in their entirety on the front page; most will present six to eight short paragraphs before being continued inside for further reading.

              Finally, it's (perhaps) notable that virtually every lengthy post at The Next Hurrah has a "Continue reading" feature.

              I fully realize that this is Markos' site to do with as he pleases, but when I met him last week, he seemed to agree that the site's greatest strength lies in the entire community.  Appearing to be summarily dismissive of concerns that have been raised, without providing much in the way of explanation, can make a lot of members of that community feel as though their contributions have little to no value.  And when that happens, the site itself is the loser.

              •  Not a Single Point Being Made (0+ / 0-)

                Maybe your point is only about the jump, but even that ignores the copious research that shows that in newspapers people don't follow jumps, and at sites like DKos the vast majority of readers never follow a link to another page, and never open up a diary.  But despite what single point you may be trying to make, plenty of people are complaining about the length, extended copy or no extended copy.

                The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

                by Dana Houle on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:36:44 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  So, Yes, We're Talking About Two Different Things (0+ / 0-)

                  True enough, many newspaper readers don't follow the jumps, but I was merely trying to establish that most people probably like having the option so that they can view more of the stories on the front page without an excessive amount of scrolling.  I know of several colleagues and friends who look at the site fairly regularly but say that they usually don't scroll down much beyond the point where the blogroll drops off.  Yes, they're basically just glossing over the site, but they tell me that when something of interest catches their eye, they'll generally click through to see if there is more, and to skim through the comments.

                  And since all I'm trying to address is the extended copy issue (I agree that those who are complaining about the length generally should probably spend more time with a blog aggregator of some sort), I'll just mention again that the overall length of the entire front page can itself be an impediment for anyone trying to view the site on a mobile device.  My BlackBerry's web browser, for example, will occasionally crash because there's simply too much data.  Unlike most other features of the site, there is no way for an individual user to adjust this through personal preferences.

              •  Oh, And As Far... (0+ / 0-)

       The Next Hurrah, as I explained yesterday, our readership is very atypical.  We know, for example, that our page views per visit plummets whenver we get inbound traffic from one of the sites with a lot of traffic, like Atrios or Huffington Post.  Most of those folks don't even open up the pages.  And the same thing is true of DKos.  But unlike Kos, those casual readers are a very small amount of our inboud traffic, so our context if very different.

                The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

                by Dana Houle on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:39:00 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  Horrible? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HK, bartman

          I missed where people thought it was HORRIBLE to scroll down to read the posts.  I believe it was more like, "gee, if you could keep the front page a little shorter, that'd be nice."

          Personally, I don't care one way or the other.  I guess since I don't care, I officially haven't been asked to "find a site that suits me better" or to have an extremely firm bowel movement.  I can only imagine what the rest of you are going through.

    •  Geez (0+ / 0-)

      Geez Kos, what a freakin' moody hothead.  I feel sorry for your wife.

  •  Immigration bill (0+ / 0-)

    I have a question for anyone who has been following the immigration debate closely.

    I am looking for a non-partisan source (or as non-partisan as possible) for information on the bill.

    Kind of a summary of the House Resolution, and where the Senate now stands. I'm getting myself confused, because there's so much info to be googled, and I'm wondering if even news that's dated on Monday may not be current to today.

    Has anyone been following this closely and have a good source for basic info on this issue?

    Thanks to anyone who can help.

    Oh well, I wasn't using that civil liberty anyway.

    by think2004 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 01:55:25 PM PST

  •  tv alerts, cartoons, entries (14+ / 0-)

    TV alerts
    Future (mostly political, media) guests (subject to change):

    • The Daily Show: Queen Latifah on 3/29; Sharon Stone on 3/30; Ricky Gervais on 4/3; Studs Terkel (author of book on WWII music) on 4/4; Gen. Anthony Zinni on 4/5; Josh Hartnett on 4/6
    • The Colbert Report: Bruce Bartlett on 3/29; Robert Greenwald (presumably promoting his anti-DeLay film) on 3/30; right-wing radio show host Michael Smerconish on 4/3; Rev. Jesse Jackson on 4/4; Harvey Mansfield (author on manliness) on 4/5; Markos Moulitsas on 4/6
    • Today Show 3/30: Matt Lauer interviews Sago Mine Tragedy survivor Randall McCloy

    Selected Entries

    Visit my blog Penndit. Media, politics, campaigns, and political communications.

    by Newsie8200 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 01:55:41 PM PST

  •  The complaint the reader registered (54+ / 0-)

    about the length of front pagers FIRST page was submitted in very humble and reasonable terms.  IIRC it was worded "a gentle request".  Why so harsh, Kos?

    If we're dumb. Then God is dumb. And maybe a little ugly on the side.

    by Ghost of Frank Zappa on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 01:55:53 PM PST

  •  Any reaction to the dust-up about troll rating? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Moli, kraant

    I think a number of people are concerned about what's going on.  On both sides of the issue.  It's not a good thing when everyone starts to look bad.


    -5.75; -7.44

    by JPete on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 01:56:04 PM PST

  •  I Never Was Much Into Discipline (20+ / 0-)

    But that was kind of hot, Kos. :)

    We're all Helens now. :)

    by cskendrick on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 01:56:22 PM PST

  •  grammar (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Maven

    Isn't the plural of fetus, "feti"?

    Question for all:  When any of y'all have "autorefresh" clicked on, especially in a diary with a lot of comments, does your computer freeze up constantly?  I cannot figure out if it's my POS Dell or the concept of continual updating that's freezing it.  Thanks

    We were promised a democracy, sold an oligarchy, and ended up with a kakistocracy...

    by topicalstorm on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 01:56:51 PM PST

    •  It's fetuses (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cos, rhubarb, Elise, JPete

      English words borrowed from Latin get pluralized as english words.

      In latin it would be fetus - it's a 4th declension noun. It refers not to the offspring so much as bearing the offspring - so plural really doesn't make sense. Virus is the same thing - it's not the object in latin but means something more like pestilence which doesn't do a plural. So the plural of virus in english is viruses. And the plural of octopus is octopuses in English.

      And yes, autorefresh can bind up my Mac as you descrive. I think they need a longer refresh interval on for when you hit large diaries. I had to turn it off altogether for the roll call thread.

      "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins." - Mencken

      by johnsonwax on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:06:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Gah! (0+ / 0-)

        If viruses is the plural of virus, then the plural of sheep is sheeps. ;)

        Pet hate. Sorry! Don't mind me. ;)

        Don't be a fuckhead! HTH k thnx

        by kraant on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:27:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Except (0+ / 0-)

        As you state, fetus is a 4th declension noun, and thus the plural form would still be fetus.  But virus is a 2nd declension noun, plural viri (which means poisons or venoms more than it does pestilence).  And as for octopus, well, that doesn't really derive from Latin directly, but rather from the ancient Greek oktopous; the Latin would be octopedes.

        •  I think we're both wrong. (0+ / 0-)

          2nd declension neuter noun with no plural form. Viri would be the plural of vir - men. I think if we asked around we could find a few that would agree that 'men'='venoms', but not really what we were after.

          "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins." - Mencken

          by johnsonwax on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:21:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Getting Really Picky Here (0+ / 0-)

            But, hey, if you can't get picky about Latin grammar . . .

            You're definitely correct in noting that virus is 2nd declension neuter, but it does appear to exist as an ordinary plural form noun, according to the internet version of William Whitaker's WORDS dictionary program.  The dictionary identifies the nominative, vocative and accusative plurals as being vira, the "poisonous secretion of snakes/creatures/plants; acrid element".

            We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

            •  So we're done being geeks? (0+ / 0-)

              Ok. I'll go see if there's any Star Trek plot inconsistencies that need to be sorted out.

              "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins." - Mencken

              by johnsonwax on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:48:03 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  That Should Keep You Busy for Quite a While (0+ / 0-)

                I will have to admit to having been a full-fledged math and science geek for much of my teen years, and every now and then, those tendencies come bursting through again.  I also spent a day or two in high school translating Mark Antony's funeral oration from Julius Caesar "back" into the Latin in which it was never written.

                "Amici, Romani, populares: commodate vestros aures
                Venio humem Caesarem, non laudem."

                And so forth.  Or something like that.  Whaddya want -- it's been well over 20 years.

      •  My antennae are burning. (0+ / 0-)
  •  Whoa (36+ / 0-)

    Dad's home and I don't think he's too happy with what we did with the house while he was away...


    "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins." - Mencken

    by johnsonwax on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 01:59:00 PM PST

  •  nobody in DC is doing anything investigate (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Easterling, NearlyNormal

    Cheney or Rumsfeld, meke them answer why they used chemical weapons on soldiers in 1975?  they need to come clean with the families after 31 years, test ended in 1975, why can't we get compensated, embrassment?

  •  Hey, isn't Scott McClellan the intellectual in (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    the WH?

    He makes Baghdad Bob look more profound every day.

    we're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression

    by Lepanto on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:00:50 PM PST

  •  i just registered for yearlykos (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rachel in Vista

    better late than never.

    got a whole slew of userid's i'd like to put a face to.....

    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson

    by sedrunsic on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:00:58 PM PST

  •  You'd better give that openthread dude... (11+ / 0-)

    a stern lecture. That guy uses the extended copy  box ALL THE TIME.

  •  Post Length (5+ / 0-)

    I'm with you, Kos, about the length of posts; are our attention spans so short that we can't take the time to rully understand an issue, not matter the length?

    •  Extended copy, lengthy words (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ed in Montana, smduballstar, kraant

      A pox on using extended copy with a link to "there's more" or what have you. Nothing irritates me more than going to a blog and having to click links to read the posts (DailyKos diaries is a special case). I abandoned all RSS readers because some sites only put partial articles in their RSS entries. I'm irked that Fire Dog Lake has adopted the "read the rest" link; it really detracts from the good writing there.

      On the subject of writing, I think a lot of times the "length" of a post is due to how it is written. I don't want anyone to take this as specific criticism, but the better-organized the structure of the post the quicker the read—regardless of the actual word count. Billmon is a great example of someone who writes very long, complicated posts that are a breeze to read through. Unfortunately very few of us could ever aspire to his brilliance with words. On the other end of the spectrum, the great book The Innovator's Dilemma has unbelievable ideas but is a horrifying read because of the author's writing style.

      I don't know, maybe it's me. I read for the pleasure of reading, not just information. But if the lead isn't buried and the information is clear I don't care how many words there are. Put them all in front of me.

      GOP: Party before Country

      by puppethead on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:15:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually not 'attention spans' ... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      glow dog, Dazy, bartman, kraant

      But, sort of like the scrolling of the 50 diaries, there does not seem to be a fixed number of front-page diaries and they sometimes are posted relatively fast. I -- along with many others -- rarely go back through all the front page posts that might have been posted in the past 4 ... 12 ... 24 hours ....

      This is not about 'attention span' for me, but an ability to track somewhat what the front-pagers might consider of value / call attention to.  I focus mainly on 'diaries' but value the front pagers and like to see what they are putting up in terms of intellectual content.

      But, certainly not meriting a GBCW post ... this whole discussion was sparked by a rather softly stated question to Georgia10 ... and had quite a few people jumping in with comments ... Kos 'owns' DailyKos ... evidently this is something he feels strongly about ... as, perhaps, do you ...

      9/11/05, Day 1469, A count worth keeping? Or, Osama Bin Forgotten?

      by besieged by bush on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:50:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You and Kos are knocking over straw men here (7+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SarahLee, jibsail, DaveV, SamSinister, Sirocco, HK, tzt

      The original comment from DaveV was NOT that the posts are "too long to read" but that they take up shitloads of space on the FP and make the FP tough to read; the recommended solution was to either keep them to 500 words (or some such) OR (you and Kos seem conveniently to ignore the 'or') put the 'money' up front and do the rest in extended (like Armando used to do with great frequency.)

      I originally agreed with this (I know, who really cares what I agree with), but on reflection it seemed to me that the FP DOES need to be complete stories both for passers through and for those who don't have cable modem or DSL.  Not all readers of Dkos are fanatics like us regulars, and some either don't have the attention span to read a "there's more" or they don't have the patience to read a "there's more".

      OK.  I see the reasoning and agree.  But don't argue against an argument that (at least to my recollection) wasn't advanced in the way Kos portrayed it above.  The person WASN'T complaining about long FP articles, per se.  He wasn't whining about lengthy reading; he was suggesting, in effect, different formatting.

      -7.88, -6.72. I AM paying attention, and I am so fucking outraged I can't see straight. TORTURE and ILLEGAL SPYING ON AMERICANS are not family values!

      by caseynm on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:26:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Meanwhile... (19+ / 0-)

    ...after the constructive discussion about front page post lengths, georgia10's writing has became even sharper. Looks like a success from where I'm sitting.

  •  And speaking of those netroots candidates... (0+ / 0-)

    For any Kossacks in the Greater Boston area:

    Join us tomorrow night at 7:00 PM in Boston at a benefit for Eric Massa Democrat for Congress (NY-29) with special guest Sen. Max Cleland.

    WHERE: Old South Church Meeting Hall, 645 Boylston St.
    WHEN: Thursday March 30th, 7:00 PM

    We're a hyper-motivated group of local veterans, activists and NY State transplants who are co-hosting this event for Eric as the first in a series for Democratic congressional candidates.

    Between now and November, we hope to bring at least 4 more Fighting Dem's to Boston so we can give them some support. A lot of folks have been asking how they can do more to influence Conbgress since we have an all-Democratic delegation here. Well, come to tomorrow night's event, and you can meet Eric and Sen. Cleland and join-up with a group who will be relentless on the grassroots level between now and election day.

    All are welcome -- See you there!

  •  No wonder.... (5+ / 0-)

    No wonder the repukes can get away with saying the Dems never have a plan.  I just went and checked the four major news outlet's web sites (ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN)... both their front page and their politics page... and the only mention of this is under the fold on (on the politics page).

    Sheesh....  liberal media my ass!

  •  Geeze (16+ / 0-)

    Maybe not enough sleep?

    Sounds like what my parents used to say:

    Tough Shit = Because I said so.

    That little phrase always bugged me, 'cause there was no reason given, even after I thought I'd made my case pretty well.

    No one, least of all me, is saying you need to give a reason for no extended FP diaries, but it sure woulda been nice.

  •  Yearly Kos Drinking Song (6+ / 0-)

    Blogthumping with apologies to ChumbaWamba

    We'll be blogging
    When we're winning we'll be blogging

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    Blogging our lives away
    Blogging our lives away

    He posts a diary post
    He posts a snarky post
    He posts a linky post
    He posts a troll-rate post

    He blogs the posts that remind him
    Of the good times
    He blogs the posts that remind him
    Of the better times

    On Daily Kos

    Daily Kos
    Daily Kos

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    Blogging the night away
    Blogging the night away

    He posts a diary post
    He posts a snarky post
    He posts a linky post
    He posts a troll-rate post

    He blogs the posts that remind him
    Of the good times
    He blogs the posts that remind him
    Of the better times

    Don't troll-rate me
    Freeper lurker

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again (we'll be blogging)
    You're never going to keep us down (when we're winning)

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again (we'll be blogging)
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again (we'll be bloging)
    You're never going to keep us down (when we're winning)

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again (we'll be blogging)
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But we get up again (blogging our lives away)
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But I get up again (blogging our lives away)
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But I get up again (blogging our lives away)
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But I get up again (blogging our lives away)
    You're never going to keep us down

    We get knocked down
    But I get up again (blogging our lives away)
    You're never going to keep us down

    "It's not selling out if you don't get paid, okay? We're not whores. When you do it for free, that's just slutty." -Wonkette -6.38/ -4.21

    by wonkydonkey on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:05:30 PM PST

  •  Town Hall with Tweety (4+ / 0-)

    An ad in the WaPo Express today lists a Town Hall Meeting with "Washington Power Couple" Chris and Kathleen Matthews.

    Chris Matthews is the host of MSNBC's Hardball and The Chris Matthews Show.
    Kathleen Matthews is the co-anchor of ABC-7 NEws and of Capital Sunday.

    Thursday, April 6
    7:30 pm

    To RSVP for this free event


    The event's address:
    Sixth & I Historic Synagogue
    600 I Street NW
    Washington, DC
    Metro: Gallery Place-Chinatown

    I don't know if I'll be able to make it to the event or not, but I figured some local DKos readers might want to go and ask Tweety the tough questions and see what his answers are when he's not on camera.

    "People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

    by rioduran on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:06:43 PM PST

  •  finally, an open thread (19+ / 0-)

    didn't want to waste a diary; if you have time check out the show Freddie, ABC teen daughter plays the Guest Star Emma...nice notch in her young actor's belt....

    I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain

    by route66 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:07:23 PM PST

  •  Arrested Development (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, Elise, kraant, Easterling, nonnie9999

    I saw that remark, and I immediately thought "Didn't that band break up years ago?"

    Do you have any idea how little television I watch?

    "To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears."
    -Octavia Butler, 1947-2006

    by Leggy Starlitz on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:08:04 PM PST

  •  R.I.P. Arrested Development.... (7+ / 0-)

    You were the funniest show since Seinfeld - possibly since before that even.

    You be missed.


    •  Funnier than Seinfeld (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jordan LFW, land of the free

      I'm a huge fan of Seinfeld (own all the DVD boxsets so far, and I've seen every episode at 2-3 times on TV), but Arrested Development was in a class of its own. I'm never going to be able to view sitcoms in the same light after it. The good die young, I suppose.

      •  Absolutely Correct. Arrested Development was (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        was a unique, smart, snarky comedy. I'm not much of a sitcom watcher, but this show became an addiction for me.

        My favorite escape from reality is no more. (cue Schroeder at the piano, and I'll continue to hang my head in despair).

        At least I have the DVDs. Season 3 is of course on order, who knows when they'll release it.

        I remember a time when our President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."

        by land of the free on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:48:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Best. Sitcom. Ever. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kraant, land of the free

      and here's the poll to prove it!

      RIP, Bluth family.

      We mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor -The Declaration of Independence

      by occams hatchet on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:43:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow. I could never be confident in saying that... (0+ / 0-)

        All in the family, mash, lucy, taxi, huxtables, cheers, seinfeld, simpsons, sooo many that compete for that crown... And of course Arrested Development is up there - I could just never pick any over the others.

    •  Good riddance (0+ / 0-)

      Now don't get me wrong, I loved the show. But it had its run. Occams hatchet's poll, linked below missed off my two favourite Sit'Com's ever: Fawlty Towers and The Office (British version). Yes, they're British, but that reflects my upbringing. The key is that they quit at a time when every episode they had put out was gold. So many possible contenders flagged by having periods of dross: the Simpsons, Friends, Frasier, and (sorry to return to the Brits) the Young Ones.

      Quitting now, Arrested Development plonks itself up there with the best Sit'Com's ever, those that left its fans pleading for more. It seems that was a creative choice (since Showtime were willing to pick it up), and for that I applaud the creators. I look forward to what they will do next.

  •  Editorial Cartoon (8+ / 0-)

    I drew this cartoon a few weeks ago, and now I am trying to get it published.  Several newspapers have already passed it up, but I feel that it is a really good design so I am going to keep trying.

    For more information, please visit The Social Security Blog - A Picture's Worth...

  •  NY Times Front Page Correction (0+ / 0-)

    Wednesday's headline "Bush Opposes Iraq's Premier, Shiites Report" should be corrected to read "Bush Opposes Iraq Sovereignty, Unpleasant Facts"

  •  A cure for Republican bedwetters? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    We can only hope.

    Could a simple hormone "cure" debilitating phobias?  Swiss researchers have found that giving people the stress hormone cortisol shortly before they entered an anxiety-provoking situation actually reduced fear and anxiety.

    Maybe if we initiated IV’s of cortisol to them we could have a sane debate....or maybe not.

    Yeah, I'm trying out this blogging thing, too.

    by MLDB on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:13:47 PM PST

  •  Relax folks... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gram E, kraant, testvet6778

    We...won a good one today, Abahamoff got 5 YEARS AND 10 MONTHS!

  •  The Netroots Thread: Add Claire McCaskill (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, peraspera

    She has an excellent chance to defeat the Republican incumbent, Jim no-Talent, in Missouri.

  •  You know... (0+ / 0-)

    despite what the song says, if all that Charlie Brown really does when he's being a clown is to call the English teacher, "Daddy-O," I don't think he IS going to get caught no matter how long I wait.

    I'm guessing everyone is always picking on him because he thinks it's funny to call the English teacher Daddy-O.

  •  Rude (25+ / 0-)

    Kos asks for recommendations and thoughts on how things are going all the time and the diarist writes a very tame diary on one such issue, which many agreed, and we get a big "Fuck you" from Kos?

    Kos could have stated why he likes the diaries written without extended copy and left it at that. Instead he talks down to us and tell us to fuck off????

    Being nasty to loyal posters over a mere miniscule suggestion is fucking idiotic.

    Kos I suggest you get more sleep...

    "I got a letter from the Republican Party the other day. I wrote back, 'Go fuck yourself.'" - Bette Midler (Rolling Stone, 9/18/2005)

    by GregNYC on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:20:23 PM PST

  •  Wow. (29+ / 0-)

    Here's my "official" response: tough shit. If 400 words is too much for you to handle, then you've got a coupe of options: 1) Read the funnies. Not a lot of words there; 2) learn to scroll down a page; 3) get an RSS reader and set it to read just headlines. No extraneous words in headlines; or 4) find a site that better suits your style.

    I'm not one of those who had a problem with the length of the FP posts - I don't particularly care one way or the other.  But that ^ is a pretty freaking rude "my-way-or-the-highway" response to what was a very civil request from someone who took the time to explain why he was requesting it.

    •  Can someone explain to me... (10+ / 0-)

      ...why so many people took these debates (post length, bios), so personally?

      To me it seemed like an innocent enough suggestion (and I didn't see anyone demanding anything). There are probably pros and cons for all sides. In the end, Markos makes the decision, and that's as it should be. But I don't think that asking the question constitutes a slur or attack, and I hope none of the FPs think that was my intention when I agreed with some of the posts on extended diaries and bios.

      For the record, I think this is the best bunch of FPs since I came here two years ago. (Shit...Now I've probably offended previous FPs).

      •  Well... (7+ / 0-)

        As one of the (mostly) former guest bloggers, I'm not offended.  

        But as someone who thinks of himself as providing something that you seldom get in the mainstream media--namely, some more informed and nuanced prose and analysis--it's dispiriting when so many people say "no, we don't want that much prose and analysis, we want it shorter, and simpler, and able to process is less than a minute or two, because the three or four minutes it might take us to read a 1,000 word post is just too much."  

        I realize that not everyone was implying that, but plenty were.  Some of us take our writing fairly seriously, and see as our kindred spirits among bloggers people like Billmon, or Digby, or Jeanne d'Arc, who are beautiful writers.  But the tone of many of those comments was "keep is really rudimentary, because it's asking too much of us to read a post longer than 400 words."

        And the basic assumption of many of those comments is patently false.  Like Markos said, Billmon almost always posted long pieces.  Same with Gilliard.  And Susan, DS and Georgia aren't posting pieces longer than the average pieces written by Page or Kid Oakland (who couldn't post anything under 1,500 words), or Meteor Blades and myself, and we go back to 2003.  So the idea that all of a sudden the posts got longer is silly.  

        You know, if we got paid for doing this, it might be different.  And don't get me wrong, it's a tremendous privledge to get this forum, to write for a blog that regularly gets over half a million visits per day.  And nobody can do this without having a bit of a thick skin.  But I think the reason some of us got so damn irritated with all this carping about length and the formating is that the heart of the complaints were essentially "I don't want to scroll down a page, so don't be special, just be like the mainstream media and give us some factoids or talking points to take away from Daily Kos."  That's mostly antithetical to the goals most of us pursue, which isn't to tell people what to think, but to help them (and us) think things through together, and come up with better politics as a result.

        George Orwell wrote that "to think clearly is the first step toward political regeneration."  I think some of us are just dismayed that so many people at DKos, given the choice between scrolling a little further down a page or dealing with more shallow posts, will opt for the more shallow posts, thus forgoing those times when thinking clearly probably requires more than 400 words.

        The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

        by Dana Houle on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:05:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Jeez, did your response have to be sooo long? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DaveV, HK, kraant

          Thanks for your answer. I guess I didn't see the debate as a choice between scrolling or being shallow. The last thing I would want is to dilute the impact of your message by shortening it. In fact, the only suggestion I made was for Georgia10 to quote the relevant parts of linked articles rather than screenfuls of them. She responded, graciously, that she thought it was a good point.

          But elsewhere in the thread it was just insane. Armando was cussing people out with a fury I never saw him use on ScAlito. He laid into me for saying that I would like it if FPs posted bios. I didn't insist on it. I didn't even criticize them if they didn't. I just said I'd like it. That was apparently too much for Armando. (Note: My ID is public on my blog, News Corpse).

          Either way, I didn't think the argument was worth all the venom on either side. To me, it was a stylistic debate, and I don't come to dKos for the style - I come for the content, with which I am usually more than satisfied.

        •  AMEN (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          'nuff said

          er, I grew up reading for my entertainment and writing for my bread.  I love words and ideas and argument.

          No more dummin' down!

          Ya hear?

          Liberal Engineer

          by HinTN on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:52:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Tough Shit, Big Time (9+ / 0-)

      Sounds an awful lot like what Bush would say to one of his underlings who politely made a suggestion to him.

      I don't even care about the issue of FP posts, but if this is an indication how much Kos values people's opinions, it's extremely disheartening.

  •  Did everyone miss this? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rita in DC, Elise, JohnB47

    I don't see any diaries or comments on this, but this is from ABC News' The Note, reporting on this piece in the NY Times:

    The New York Times Rick Berke reports "Republican sources close to the White House say Mr. Card's replacement by Mr. Bolten is just the beginning. In the coming days, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld will be fired, and replaced by former Colorado Senator Gary Hart, a Democrat. In addition, Mr. Bush will further reach out to the opposition by replacing his Secretary of Health and Human Services Michael O. Leavitt with California Congressman Henry A. Waxman, a long-time critic."

    If this actually happens, it's pretty stunning. So un-Bush like. Two Dems? Unbelievable. If this were coming from Raw Story, I'd be dubious. But the NY Times?

    "It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!"

    by Kestrel on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:22:24 PM PST

  •  Right On Kos (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    By The Root, Easterling

    You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cant please 'em all, all of the time.

    Hope you're having some fun on the road.

  •  Hey (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FaithAndReason, Easterling

    Kos has to be a jerk every once in a while.

    That, apparently, is part of being Kos.

    Soldiers are required to do their jobs when politicians fail to do theirs

    by leftvet on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:23:25 PM PST

  •  John Bolton (0+ / 0-)

    here he is after the vote where the 5 permanent members of security council decide to forbid Iran from enriching uranium:

    One could almost caption this photo with:
    "Bolton Ecstatic over Pending war with Iran"

  •  Count me in (5+ / 0-)

    with the crowd that is concerned that some of the changes are not good.  I'm a regular reader (couple of hours daily) who is not happy about reading any post over 500-600 words is written properly.  Anyone who paid attention in their writing class learned that you make your case in the first 500 words.

    Read any good news story.  Copy that style.  If you are going to be a journalist, learn journalism.  If you are going to be a writer, you need to consider your audience.  In this market a writer must present information in a concise way.  

  •  A couple interesting things I just found. (11+ / 0-)

    Thing 1 - Apparently more Americans now identify as Democrats than Republicans, according to Gallup:

    NEW YORK In a (perhaps) historic shift, more Americans now consider themselves Democrats than Republicans, the Gallup organization revealed today.


    Independents now make up 34% of the population. When asked if they lean in a certain direction, their answers pushed the Democrat numbers to 49% with Republicans at 42%. One year ago, the parties were dead even at 46% each.

    Thing 2 - Oh boy, yee-hah!  The Saudis are apparently developing a nuclear capability:

    BERLIN (AFX) - Saudi Arabia is working secretly on a nuclear program, with help from Pakistani experts, the German magazine Cicero reported in its latest edition, citing Western security sources.

    It says that during the Haj pilgrimages to Mecca in 2003 through 2005, Pakistani scientists posed as pilgrims to come to Saudi Arabia.


    Cicero, which will appear on newstands tomorrow, also quoted a US military analyst, John Pike, as saying that Saudi bar codes can be found on half of Pakistan's nuclear weapons 'because it is Saudi Arabia which ultimately co-financed the Pakistani atomic nuclear program.'

    The magazine also said satellite images indicate that Saudi Arabia has set up a program in Al-Sulaiyil, south of Riyadh, a secret underground city and dozens of underground silos for missiles.

    Think Bush might be upset with the Saudis if we let him know they were developing a "nucular" program?

    •  wow (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I think it'll be just find with bushie that the saudis get the bomb. After all, Abu Abdullah is part of the family, isn't he? I'd feel so much safer if the wahabi sect gets the bomb instead of the shiite mullahs in Iran...

      "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness." Mark Twain

      by dougymi on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:12:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Historic shift? (0+ / 0-)

      IIRC, Democrats were ahead for like most of the 20th century.  Ever since FDR, Dems lead in identification polls.  Since they've been shrinking, so it is interesting that it's actually growing.  But it's not historic.

      Maybe if they win a couple of elections it might be...

      "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

      by AUBoy2007 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:07:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  in the article (0+ / 0-)

        Republicans had gained the upper hand in recent years, but 33% of Americans, in the latest Gallup poll, now call themselves Democrats, with those favoring the GOP one point behind.

        Second graf.  Not a lot of context there, to be sure.

        Here is a link to the Gallup page referenced.  The graph tracks back to 1988, showing some fluctuations.  Perhaps it's the pendulum swinging back?  And if you take it from purely recent totals, factoring in the independently inclined, as Gallup did, things look pretty good.  Time for a bit of boost to that pendulum about now, I think.

        •  Thanks for pointing that out... (0+ / 0-)

          I still have a problem with the use of the word historic, but it's still good news.

          Like I said though, unless we win some elections, this won't mean much.  I go back and forth on whether or not I'm optimistic about 06.  This news helps.

          "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

          by AUBoy2007 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:43:05 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Re: strong end-of-quarter performance (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, acquittal

    The campaign I'm working/volunteering on would be most greatful for a little (or a lot) of $upport. We have the endorsement of our local DFA Chapter (and are pursuing an endorsement from the national organization). It is very much a grassroots campaign.

    Carol Shea-Porter for Congress (NH-01)

    After Hurricane Katrina Carol went down and volunteered for about 20 days helping people get food and shelter in New Orleans. Quite a contrast with our President I think you will agree.

    For her first hand account you can listen to a local radio interview she did about the trip at the links below. I think it is a very compelling story and while she doesn't get into politics or even policy issues at all, she most definately makes me want to send her to DC.

    part 1
    part 2
    part 3

  •  Markos--typo in author's name (0+ / 0-)

    Meanwhile, Salon has a cover story/review of the book, pairing it with Glenn Reynold's An Army of Davids.

    That should be Reynolds's--or, if you insist, Reynolds'.

  •  I just... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...put up (another) Howard Kaloogian diary that talks about his trip to Iraq...this time from the point of view of one of his fellow-travelers.  

    Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

    by Barbara Morrill on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:27:02 PM PST

  •  It's not the long post that are the problem... (0+ / 0-)'s the rants that really do not add to the solution. Being "ashamed to be an American" and all. If you want to lead a country, that's a helluva lead in. The audience is not who is already convinced. It's who needs to be on our side, but is sitting on the sidelines wondering who will lead.

  •  Ned looking for 3000 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Nearing 2500 as of 5:30 EST.

    We have something to prove. On Friday at midnight our campaign faces its first quarterly fundraising deadline. More than 2,355 of you have already stepped up and contributed online - help us hit 3,000 by our deadline.

    This campaign has gone farther in one month than I ever imagined. Just this week, 16 of the 22 delegates elected to the State Party convention from Greenwich have pledged their support to my campaign. Not a single delegate endorsed Joe Lieberman.

    Don't let anyone fool you - Joe Lieberman is worried. His campaign is continually making the ludicrous claim that this is a single-issue campaign. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Of course I oppose Joe Lieberman's stand on the War in Iraq, as do 60% of Americans. I also believe that the $ 250 million a day we spend in Iraq would be better spent ensuring that everyone have quality, affordable health care, and that the war is distracting us from developing real solutions for our future energy and education needs. I would have lead the fight against Samuel Alito' lifelong appointment to the Supreme Court and will hold the Bush administration accountable for any illegal wiretapping.

    This quarterly deadline is important for so many reasons. Right now our campaign needs to show Connecticut we are for real. We need to show real broad base of support to show how our grassroots campaign can win against the Washington DC lobbyist money on August 8th. With a strong first quarter report, we can show them we are here to stay.

    Help us reach 3,000 contributors:

    Thank you,

    Ned Lamont

  •  An age of profanity? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise, enough, Easterling

    What do they expect when George Bush has absolutely fucked our country in more ways than Pat Robertson fucks underage male prostitute?  Profanity is just a way of expressing extreme emoitions and people are FUCKING PISSED.  An age of profanity makes perfect fucking sense right about now!

    "F*CK BUSH!" -- Mahatma Gandhi (sourced anonymously through the NY Times)

    by Magicmike888 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:29:55 PM PST

    •  profanity & Dick (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FaithAndReason, Elise, viral

      From the article:

      "And it’s not just at the bar. Or on TV. (Or on the Senate floor, for that matter, where Vice President Dick Cheney used the F-word in a heated argument two years ago.)

      Excuse me, "heated argument"?  Pat Leahy walked up to a group of Senators on the Senate floor, which included Dick Cheney.  When Cheney saw him, he looked at Leahy and said -- unprovoked -- "go fuck yourself."  

      The AP getting the fucking facts wrong again.

    •  and profanity rhymes with... (0+ / 0-)

      sean hannity. coincidence? i think not.

      I didn't get Jack from Abramoff...I'm not a Republican!

      by nonnie9999 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 08:54:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Jack Davis officially announces candidacy: NY-26 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise, schlouse

    Jack Davis will be announcing his candidacy at a series of press conferences tomorrow.  I diaried about this earlier today but just wanted to give everyone a heads up that Tom Reynolds is being challenged.  He is the chairman of the NRCC and is really highly ranked in the republican party.  I think it is very possible to take him out if the issues are framed the right way.  Probably not quite as good as Tom Delay but this is second best.  Imagine if we got Tom Delay and Tom Reynolds?  That would be friggin awesome.  I know we can do it!

    Fight global warming. Be a pirate.

    by Orangebeard on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:30:28 PM PST

    •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

      Jack fared well against Reynolds in 2004 too.

      And with CAFTA, it's more fuel for Jack's fire.

      "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

      by RBH on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:05:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  44% in 2004 (0+ / 0-)

        pretty impressive against an incumbent with all the connections Tom Reynolds has.  He is in the pocket of the corporations big time and is a top fundraiser.  He raises money for other republicans.  Taking this guy out would damage the republicans in a big way I think.  Of course all that fundraising gives Reynolds a lot of money to fight to keep his seat.  But republicans are hurting bad right now with corruption and campaign finance scandals.  Reynolds avoided answering how he stood on the social security plan of President Bush but it looks like he stepped in the doo doo that is Medicare D and has that stink on him.  I've talked to many seniors up here and they hate Medicare D.  That and the horrible western NY economy I think makes NY-26 a definate pickup.

        Fight global warming. Be a pirate.

        by Orangebeard on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:36:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  AD is Dead, Love Live AD (0+ / 0-)

    Funniest show ever.

  •  I love Al Sharpton (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    He is ripping Tony Perkins a new one on Hardball. Go Reverand.

    "Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar." Edward R. Murrow

    by justrock on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:35:43 PM PST

  •  Help. I'm having problems with the DKOS site. (0+ / 0-)

    The front page comes in fine with the masthead and all the other stuff but when I click on a diary discuss whatchamacallit I get a weird blue and black page (unformatted?) Is it just me or is everyone experiencing this?

  •  NYT sticks Abramoff close to DeLay (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, FaithAndReason, aimeeinkc

    Today's report in the NYT about the Abramoff sentencing concludes with a jibe at DeLay's claim of non-friendship:

    One of his closest friends was Representative Tom DeLay of Texas, the former Republican majority leader, who used to take lavish overseas trips overseas that were arranged by Mr. Abramoff. Mr. DeLay stepped down after being indicted on unrelated campaign-finance charges in Texas.

  •  CityBeat interviews Paul Hackett (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, Easterling

    Hackett's Happy - Still fighting politics as usual, he says he's not an angry guy
    By Margo Pierce for Cincinnati CityBeat

    "The Republican Party has been hijacked by religious fanatics," he says. "I'm talking about the people who want to tell you how to worship your god. I'm talking about Pat Robertson, who wants to say that the Twin Towers were brought down to punish New York City. ... If you believe that, that's fine, live your private life, worship your god in your way. Don't tell me how to live my private life. Don't tell me or my neighbors how to worship our gods. Furthermore, stop taking your lens of religion and placing it over the Constitution of the United States and trying to argue that we have to believe it your way, the religious nut way. Let the rest of us Americans worship our god and live our lives in private.

    "Democrats are very afraid to say that, and they're very apologetic about that. I just hope they find the courage to get away from that because, if they don't stand up against what I view as a very totalitarian approach that is overwhelming our country and administration, we're going to be worse off than we are now."


    Hackett's Battle - Targeting lies about the war
    By Margo Pierce for Cincinnati CityBeat
    During a nearly two-hour interview, Paul Hackett spoke about the war in Iraq, terrorism, Iran and President Bush. This is a transcript of part of that conversation.

    "For Dick Cheney, George Bush or Donald Rumsfeld to lie to the American people and belittle the skill and the will to fight that those folks has doesn't serve anybody well. I am just paranoid enough to believe that, in part, the reason they belittle the insurgency -- mark my word on this: When history begins to write about this conflict, the spin from the Rumsfelds and Cheneys and Wolfolwitzes and George Bush will be that it was a military failure. They're gonna spin it that the military failed the American people, but not the planning of Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, George Bush and Paul Wolfowitz. That's exactly what happened post-Vietnam; it will happen again. I think that's a shame because the military was not listened to by this administration. The average American doesn't quite understand that. They're not really paying close attention to what's going on over there. The civilian leadership has failed the American people by ignoring and disregarding the advice and professionalism of the professional war-fighting class."

  •  Anyone watching Tweety? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FaithAndReason, annefrank, Easterling

    It is simply amazing how snarky he is being today. Yucking it up with the worst wingnuts in the country. Baiting the Democrat on illegal immigration. Sucking up to the fundies. He's in full attack mode today.

    Someone must have told him his speaking fees would dry up if he didn't get cracking...

    HARDBUCKS! Chris Matthews Bought?

  •  Am I the only one (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FaithAndReason, Easterling

    that thinks this entire "immigration problem" that is now causing so much angst in Washington (and plenty more for those unfortunates here illegally that are doing the grunt work), am I the only one that thinks that this is a good excuse to close our borders to those that want to leave the USA?

  •  I guess it's tough being a media star (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  After reading about the Pakistani baby (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    who underwent surgery to have two sibblings that had developed in fetu and died at four months, my first thoughts were for the health of the baby and my second went to the anti-abortion, woman-hating crowd. Would they have advocated, had the parasitic twins been found "alive," that they must be carried to term unless endangering the infant's life? If this situation happened in the US, would they have set up baricades around the hospital and knelt praying that the two fetuses be "protected?" Would they have terrorized the family with their chants, "life" painted duct tape over their mouths, and pictures of stillborns on large posters draped across wood crosses? Would they have called the infant whose body at the fetal stage had absorbed the other sibblings, "mommy"?

    Those thoughts lasted only a few seconds. Then I pulled my mind out of the sewage of idiocy that has become the mantra of the woman-hating crowd and wished the infant a long, healthy, and peaceful life.

  •  Bush's 'speedo' joke (0+ / 0-)

    Caught this on Huffington Post and it makes no sense.
    I don't have television - could anyone explain the context of the remarks Bush made at a press conference in Mexico (with the Mex. prez I think) about not wearing a "speedo".

  •  Dear Kos (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Gryffin, aspTrader, Easterling, mhw

    Please include more entries about what you're doing all day.  Hey, what did you watch on TV?  Did you shave this morning?  How about what you had for breakfast?

    /I kid because I love
    //But seriously, STFU with this crap, I don't come here to read you talk about your jammies

  •  delicious irony (16+ / 0-)

    I don't have a horse in this race--I don't much care if the front-pagers use an "extended" button or not. [Though I have to say I really dislike a recent change towards the use of that feature @]

    Nonetheless, I do find it deliciously ironic that shortly after the results of a user-feedback poll (one that I remember as being overwhelmingly in favor of shorter front-page posts) was responded to with:

    This morning I've scanned some of the going ons of the last few days (I'm completely out of touch when on the road), and I noticed the dustup over long front page posts. Here's my "official" response: tough shit.

    we also read from Kos that:

    Of course, I am enamored by the notion of people-powered anything

    Anyway, putting that paradox aside, it's your name on the site Kos. You can organize it however you want. Right or wrong on the details, I've always thought this place was so successful because of your firm vision, not in spite of it.

    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- The Dalai Lama

    by SLJ on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 02:49:32 PM PST

  •  Isn't the testosterone-fueled (8+ / 0-)

    endorphin surge that accompanies utterance of the phrase "tough shit" intoxicating?

  •  Cynthia McKinney-related news (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise, nonnie9999

    While Cynthia is in the news for punching a cop, this is more of a concern.


    U.S Rep. Cynthia McKinney’s father angrily chastised gay activists seeking her support for a bill to repeal "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell" at a recent meeting, accusing gay Atlantans of contributing to her 2002 loss to political newcomer Denise Majette.

    Held at McKinney’s district headquarters in Decatur, the March 18 meeting attracted 21 local activists who specifically sought McKinney’s support of HR 1059, the Military Readiness Enhancement Act. The measure would repeal "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell" and allow gay men and lesbians to serve openly in the military.


    But after an hour of listening to gay, lesbian and transgender activists, McKinney’s father, Billy McKinney, jumped in. He said he was "taking over the meeting" and demanded to know why his daughter should support gay rights bills after gay voters "abandoned" her in 2002.


    Typically situations where Billy McKinney gets involved in Cynthia's job tend to go poorly. I'm not sure which example is the best. But, either the one with the anti-semitic remarks in 1996 or the one where he blamed her loss on "the Jews". Probably the first one.

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:04:15 PM PST

  •  (im)migration (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, Elise

    I was listening to Democracy Now! and was thinking abot the immigratoin thing. I have never been to Central or South America. I have ZERO personal experiance with what dail life is like there. I know that there are many kosians that can instruct people like me.

    I ask myself: my life, as hard as it seems to be, is it something that I would abandon, to uproot my family, to force them to endure a long journey with a goal that is fuzzy - is this something that I owuld do?

    And yet, many, MANY, men, women, children, families - many people are doing just his thing, right now.

    These human beings would not even think about this arduous journey unless it was necessary - would you? And that brings me to my point:

    Instead of our Congress debating a bill about how to limit (im)migration, would it be better for all involved to debate a bill that would enable these people to be able to sustain themselves right where they are?

    I am lazy, and I am not well schooled in the minutae of systems, but I am willing to wager that it would be less expensive for the US government to promote sustainability in Central and South America than it will cost to erect a fence along aour border with Mexico.

  •  The 'F-word'??? How fucking old are we?! (5+ / 0-)

    And who the fuck are these people who use it so fucking sparingly? It's fucking every other fucking word out of my fucking mouth...I mean, FUCK!


    Seriously...I don't get the uptightness with swearing. I love swearing...and I'm not shocked or offended by it.

    Fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck!


    yes...I am a totally obnoxious 28 year old...and if you don't like can fuck yourself:)

  •  I am heading out (0+ / 0-)

    to a meeting of former Cegelis volunteers and other progressives in IL-6, in what is increasingly looking like a futile attempt to resolve this crap.

    I'd rather be having root canals.  I wish I could drink.  This situation is getting seriously crazy.

  •  ;( (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:


    Kos you ruined my life!


  •  Breaking up is hard to do (0+ / 0-)

    It still cracks me up when I read Krauthammer's nervous breakdown. The right is imploding along with its Iraq policy.

    So, here's my second installment that I posted last night:
    Charles Krauthammer’s Neo-Conservative Moment - Or Francis Fukuyama As The Oracle

  •  Lamont (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I read the TAP article on Lamont.  I just don't get the arguments made by the Lieberman camp.  They claim if they have to fight of the challange of Ned Lamont in a primary, they will have less money to spend on other elections.  If Joe really cared about defeating Rep's like Chris Shay's he'd make a jump to the left.  As his endorsement of Lieberman would indicate Shay's has been trying to run from Bush and cozy up with Joe.  Right now it makes perfect sense for Lieberman to step away from Shay's, McCain and every other Republican looking to boost their bipartisan bonafides.  

    This is seriously becoming laughable.  Everytime a Republican wants to appear bipartisan they throw out the name Lieberman.  Six years ago I would have considered Lieberman a solid liberal who was somewhat conservative on defense issues.  However that was before 9/11.  Now that defense is the most important issue to the American people the affection Joe shows to the Republican rank and file undermines the party's entire message to the American people.  

    His behavior during the ethics reform spat between McCain and Obama showed that he's drinking more of the GOP Kool-Aid than we had originally thought.
    Is he as bad as Henry Cuellar? Absolutly not.  But his presence of capitol hill helps the Republican's far more than it hurts the Democrats.  Especially now that McCain is moving further towards the President.  He's taking Lieberman right along with him.

  •  There's a new edition (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Defending bad taste and liberalism since 2005.

    by jurassicpork on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:26:07 PM PST

  •  Thank you for using profanity (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rabel, Easterling

    I'm so tired of people who wet their pants when a forceful statement is made.  I always taught my daughter that, while it is wrong to use words that diminish other people (e.g., n***er, wop, kike, and red-neck), 4-letter words are just words with four letters.  They are frequently powerful.  While strong language should be used with discretion, it can be used when it is justified and effective.

  •  My suggestion for the site (0+ / 0-)

    Ban all the WATB.


  •  Helen Thomas is set to receive 100 dozen roses (6+ / 0-)

    tomorrow courtesy of the folks over at Democratic Underground  

    Helen's roses are a "thank you" from DU for being the first reporter to bring up PNAC in a press conference and for her continued work to hold this administration accountable for it's ciminal behavior.

    •  Helen Thomas well deserves 100 doz roses (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gram E, Boorad, Easterling

      But what is anyone going to do with 100 dozen roses.  Send a dozen a week for 100 weeks and she can grace her desk every day. Love should be sweet but practical.  

      •  This was widely discussed and I believe the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        the plan is to deliver them to the VA hospital after Helen's office, much like Barbara Boxer did last year.  I have no idea which thread to find that discussion, but I recall asking about it specifically.

        Apparently once they started the fundraising effort for the roses, they felt it would be shady to then change the reason they were collecting money.  Several people, myself included, suggested they send her a few dozen roses and take the rest of the money and donate to Katrina causes/victims in her name.  But, it sounds like they may have been in some type of legal (or at least ethical) trouble if they switched streams midway thru the fundraiser.

        So, I hope that they are at least distributed to area hospitals after Helen's surprise.  Hopefully there will be a disclaimer the next time around so that the money will go to a worthy charity in the person's name.

        At least the roses came from an organic farmer!

        •  send the throns to Bush Jr. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I think sending send her a few dozen roses and donating the rest of the money in her name to Katrina victims is a wonderful idea. If the terms of the request for funding is not flexible, buy fewer and pay to have the florist remove the throns.  Send Helen the roses and send the throns to Junior.

        •  I hope they don't do a press release (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ragnark, Scout Finch

          i had some of the same concerns you did, Scout Finch.

          The roses are a nice gesture, and I hope they'll be distributed at Walter Reed (which I believe was discussed).

          I'd also raised a concern about how this could look. Personally, I think Helen Thomas is great, and I appreciate her efforts as a journalist, but I don't think she should be showered with roses for doing her job well... [i]especially [/i]not by a partisan group. If DU members send out a press release to every major news outlet, this might backfire, and put Ms. Thomas in an awkward position.

          That said, I think the intent of the gift was genuine. I hope the roses are well-received, the gesture is appreicated, and the flowers are quietly distributed to local hospitals.

          I remember a time when our President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."

          by land of the free on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:23:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            land of the free

            I want the focus to be on the specific reason that she is getting the flowers.  And that is because she asked about the Project for the New American Century (PNAC).  The first reporter I know of who asked the White House directly about his relationship with them and their plan to invade Iraq long before 9/11 ever happened.  That needs to be driven home.

        •  One problem with the plan (0+ / 0-)

          and I was following it for a while.  It was Boxer's decision to donate the roses to the VA hospital.  

          Helen might have other plans for roses gifted to her.  Once you give the gift(s), you don't get to determine what the giftee does with it/them.

    •  Gentlemen, please note (0+ / 0-)

      Roses are not always a great surprise.  Let me tell you about an occasion that left me half ready to kill my husband.  I was the podium building very effectively to my key point when a florist arrived to “surprise” me with Valentines Day roses.  My timing was destroyed, people applauded but my point was lost.  I felt like a blushing girl and never recovered my dignity.  When I stammered my way to the end of this awful hour and gathered my laptop and projector, I also had to figure out how to carry these damned roses home.  I never figured out what to say to him and he is probably still wondering why he didn’t get laid.

  •  The Kos Diary, Wednesday edition (8+ / 0-)
    1. Get some sleep. Try to remember what wife/kid look like
    1. Take a peek at site, find out about denial of service attack, roll eyes
    1. Walk down hall, enjoy rare "home toilet advantage"
    1. Go back to site, piss off all sorts of people by going apeshit for no apparent reason, lose about 500 book sales
    1. Eat a Hot Pocket. Mmmm. Pepperoni and processed cheese-like substance.
    1. Check itinerary. Curse loudly. Blame Joe Lieberman. Fucker.
    1. Go back to bed.

    Spare the poor people of Crawford, Texas. Send Bush a one-way ticket to the moon instead.

    by JacksonBlogs on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:39:53 PM PST

  •  Where's Vito's Opponent! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nonnie9999, NearlyNormal

    As a resident of New York City I find it troublesome that one of the most conservative representatives in the entire country represents our city.  Vito Fossella isn't a "Mike Bloomberg Republican", he isn't even a "Rudy Giuliani Republican".  He's one of Tom DeLay's best friends on the hill.  Vito has taken $10k worth of contributions from DeLay's PAC, and voted with DeLay 91% of the time.  

    Staten Island and Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, the two areas he represents have a history of being white, working class and socialy conservative.  However, Democrats still out number Republicans in terms of registration numbers.  The district is also heavily unionized.  Fossella has a reputation for being anti-workers rights.  

    Vito's opponent is Steve Harrison, a lawyer from Brooklyn.  This race has recieved little attention from the progressive blogging community, so it seems as though nobody thinks Fossella can be defeated.  I find this somewhat suprising.  

  •  I think it's N*A*P T*I*M*E n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, FaithAndReason, DaveV

    Happy little moron, lucky little man. I wish I was a moron, my God, perhaps I am! -- Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:51:55 PM PST

  •  'Brand W' and the Midterm Elections (0+ / 0-)

    Facing dismal poll ratings and the potential loss of both the House and Senate, the Republican National Committee appears set with its 2006 mid-term election strategy. The key? The Congressional GOP must stand firm behind a president who enjoys rock-solid support among conservative voters.

    For the details, see:
    "Brand W."

  •  Calm down. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lush, SarahLee, FaithAndReason, DaveV, HK

    I'm new to this site, and thought it was great!  I Still do!  But jeez... give someone a big mic and a sense of power and you get things coming out of thier mouths like "tough shit."

    What about, ya know, all the things WRONG with this NATION?!  Is this really the best use for your engergy, "kos"?  Seems like an awful waste to me...

    Yours sincerely, Matthew Meiners

    by minimei on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:52:46 PM PST

  •  FReepers make 'Confused Dog Face'...I giggle. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    enough, viral

    as they mark tomorrow's 25th anniversary of the Reagan shooting, I mentioned:

    "I've always found it curious that the father of John Hinckley was a large contributor to George Bush '80, and that John's brother Scott was scheduled to be a dinner guest of Neil Bush on March 31, 1981.

    What a small world! "

    Take your protein pills and put your helmet on

    by SFOrange on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 03:53:18 PM PST

  •  New Defense Plan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BenGoshi, Easterling, nonnie9999

    Cudos to Harry Reid for calling the GOP on their slanderous bullshit.  The most impressive part of for me was the outlining of how the administration has left veterans shown no appreciation for the sacrifice our vertans have made in combat.  What the administration has done to the health care benefits of our veterans is scandalous.  Throw that on top of blocking bonuses for those serving overseas today as well as outfitting them with inadequate body armor and it's clear which party fails to support our troops.

  •  400 words - no problem (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But MS Word counts 517 for this diary, excluding headers, footers, etc.  And this is relatively short for a FP post.  I prefer the diary list because there's so much more meat there and I can scan through far more stuff since it's only headlines.  Yes, some people can set up RSS readers - but many can't.  Is it politically desirable to exclude less computer literate people from the leading Dem blog?  

    •  Scrolling (0+ / 0-)
      down a page can be so very, very difficult.  And challenging too!  I hope everyone has their computer manuals at the ready!
      •  Succinctness (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        One of the things that attracted me to this particular site was the succinct way that issues were put forward and then wrapped up.  

        I'm well able to scroll, and I can follow long articles, such as those that appear in the New Yorker or Atlantic.  However, at this site lately brevity has given over to wordiness, and it's just not fun to read  those overlong, wordy screeds.

        But I can deal with that, too.  I just don't read them past the first sentence or two -- especially when I see that they're taking a long time to say not very much.  If it gets too much worse, I'll just stop coming here altogether.  There are plenty of other bloggers out there who are better writers than some of the current bunch that are posting here.

        Shrug.  That's my opinion.  (If Kos wants to take off the kid gloves and insult me, well nuts to him. I can certainly insult right back.)  I'm sure he won't miss me coming here.  And hey, if the current bunch of bloggers here want to keep on writing wordy posts, have at it.  This person however has tuned them out.

  •  Voting news (0+ / 0-)

    As usual, the Bradblog has excellent coverage of the latest in voting fraud news.

    The top story is about how the Florida Attorney General Subpoenas E-voting Companies and the next is about how the new E-voting Database Dumps Registrations of California Voters.

    One nation, under surveillance, no liberty, nor justice for us

    by SisTwo on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:05:24 PM PST

  •  Arrested Development is officially dead. (0+ / 0-)

    I guess I'll go read the funnies. Hyaw hyaw!

    We are all insurgents now.

    by The Gryffin on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:18:18 PM PST

  •  Latest Domenich news ... (0+ / 0-)

    via Jane and Wonkette:

    Domenich was fired from Regnery Press even before Oregon Guy checked his PJ O'Rourke copy; it seems that, among other accusations of lack of performing editorial work, he omitted part of Michelle Malkin's manuscript.

    Guess there will be no book ...

    Cthulhu for president: you know he's the lesser evil!

    by Jon Meltzer on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:20:06 PM PST

  •  Dobson Says: (4+ / 0-)

    That infant should have carried the other two to term. The infant should be arrested along with the doctor that performed the abortion.

    The world is weary of statesmen whom democracy has degraded into politicians.

    by JenD on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:24:22 PM PST

  •  A shameless plug for (0+ / 0-)
    a stay at home mom blog.
  •  Kos - your harshness is unncessary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, DaveV

    It's time to be a Democrat!

    by annefrank on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:41:04 PM PST

  •  Perkins on Hardball... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...whining that Delay is being targeted because he's a Christian (as opposed to corrupt), Perkins has the audacity to declare evangelical Christians just want the freedom to practice their religion...of course, he omitted the "and force our religion on everyone else" part.

    His debating partner was Rev. Al Sharpton who actually handled Perkin's idiocy quite handily.

    The schizophrenic Matthews played wiffleball again.

  •  Three of Eight Recommended Diaries (0+ / 0-)
    Are about Kaloogian's little screwup?  Jesus.

    "The face of evil is the face of total need." - Wm. Burroughs

    by oblomov on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:47:26 PM PST

    •  correcto mundo (0+ / 0-)

      Isn't diary duplication against the rules?

      This signature line confers blanket acknowledgment and correction of any tpyo's that may or may not exist in the above text.

      by oregon blue on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:54:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Little screwup? (0+ / 0-)

      It's more than that.  It's much, much more than that.  It's symbolic of a Republican Party that views Iraq in rose-tinted glasses, and even when that fucking tint doesn't work anymore, they fabricate evidence to bolster their disproven, dishonest arguments.

      •  It's much, much more than that. (0+ / 0-)
        Well, yes, but three out of eight?  

        BTW, I wonder how he's going to claim that he innocently got some photos he took confused, considering that as a big-time, high-profile  Armenian revanchist and agitator for putting the Turks' genocide against the Armenians on a par with the Holocaust, he is unlikely to have visited Istanbul as a tourist, and even more unlikely to admit having done so.

        "The face of evil is the face of total need." - Wm. Burroughs

        by oblomov on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 08:52:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Link to story on Real Security (0+ / 0-)

    I know its late in the day, but voting on the story can keep it in play.

    Feingold/Slaughter '08. Hey, I can dream.

    by bosdcla14 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 04:48:16 PM PST

  •  watching the senate on cspan... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    My little sisters made me turn it off!

    Dick Durbin was speaking about immigration. They asked me to turn it off becasue they can't concentrate on their homework.

    They asked me:
    "Who is that guy? He isn't boring like the last one! (Jeff Sessions) He's too good at making sense!"

    -Jordan Wells
    -6.38, -4.77
    High School Deaniac

    by Jordan LFW on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:03:43 PM PST

  •  Wow... excellent comment by John Dean (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sherri in TX, kraant

    John Dean is appearing just now on Olberman. It was a great interview.

    He just said some thing like:

    The Bush White House and the Republican are really worried about the type of sentence that Abramoff got. Namely that he can get his sentence reduced a lot for doing a good job aiding the prosecution.

  •  Four diaries (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sherri in TX

    on the Kaloogian photo phuck-up on the rec list?  Are we not obsessing a bit much, especially since it was also front paged?  I'm not really disputing the need for numerous diaries on a single subject -- hell more than one person writes about things all the time, and fresh takes give depth and perspective -- but this is arather simple story of an asshole who's running 35 points behind Francine Busby for a seat he'll never fill and who got caught with his pants down.  Do we really need 4 diaries to be recommended on it?  

    I mean, really; it's not like this is as big as the Ohio fraud shit.  Is it?

    Why is that some Democrats seem to think losing will make them look tougher than will winning? ~Atrios

    by GOTV on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:17:56 PM PST

    •  Come on (0+ / 0-)

      35 points behind, but if you add up all the other Repubs' numbers the runoff looks kinda interesting... possibly. If you add up all the evidence that Ohio fraud screwed Kerry, you've got jack shit.

      Now that I think about it, that "Ohio fraud" was snark, right? If so, ya got me. But I'll still post this cos I imagine plenty here would say that for real.

  •  You GO, Markos (0+ / 0-)

    I'm late to this thread but I remember with great affection Billmon's loooooooong front page posts.  Still check to see what is new there, too!

  •  Kos ... (0+ / 0-)

       If I wear my Aluminum Foil Armband with  DailyKos inscribed on it will you love me?


  •  Keith Olbermann's 'Worst People in the World' (0+ / 0-)


    #3: Howard Kaloogian (and you know why!)

    #2 Democratic Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney of Georgia, who decked a police officer after she went around some metal detectors at the capital. Apparently, the Capital police officer didn't recognize her (and congressmen & women don't have to go through the metal detectors, apparently).

    #1: Rush Limbaugh: for his comments about Michelle Wie at
    Apparently they just love Rush at that site.

    I remember a time when our President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."

    by land of the free on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:50:12 PM PST

  •  ps didn't mention that Kos is *not* on KO's list (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    at least not today's list.

    Perhaps Markos will be on the "Worst" list tomorrow. After all, he's been so damn offensive this afternoon!


    I remember a time when our President was the leader of the free world. ****** Repeat after me: "Neoconservatism has failed America."

    by land of the free on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:52:34 PM PST

  •  Abramoff (0+ / 0-)

    Poetic Justice-Don't burn the flag! Wash it!

    by prime63 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 05:57:35 PM PST

  •  if you can 'tough shit' here, say it on CNN too (6+ / 0-)

    KOs, I really appreciated your honest, forthright, and extremely articulate interview on CNN the other day.  Then what do you do, in two words completely obliterate a nice discussion that actually was working itself out quite nicely without you!!!

    Case in point, Georgia10 agreed that her posts were too long and  one of the comments was that she would have more punch if she could say it more concisely.  I think her posts improved greatly.

    Nevertheless, the discussion was ongoing.  What was gained by "tough shit".  Was that necessary?  Was that fun to be able to say that?  Exactly what was the purpose?  Is there something you are trying to prove? I just gave a huge recommendation to Dawn who posted about the importance of civility in discussions.  That sir, was not civil.  Of course, "tough shit" to us again, because it is your site.  Ultimately, you did not need to say "tough shit".

    But as i said in my postto Dawn, people can get away with that kind of language because we are all strangers and there is no consequence.  

    I'd like to hear you say "tough shit" on CNN, if its good enough to say to us, to our community, its good enough to say on CNN!

  •  where can I get the transcript from the SJC (0+ / 0-)

    hearing yesterday?


    but I don't have a subscription there...

    I thought usually has these things up the next day, but I can't find it..(maybe it takes two or threee days...

    Haven't been able to find transcripts at WaPo, either (they had the Gonzales hearing transcript).

    Powerline (don't ask) is pointing out that the New York Times and Washington Times are running contradictory reports on the hearings.

    I'd like to read them.

  •  Respect? (6+ / 0-)

    It is ironic that Kos is writing:

    Here's my "official" response: tough shit. If 400 words is too much for you to handle, then you've got a coupe of options: 1) Read the funnies. Not a lot of words there; 2) learn to scroll down a page; 3) get an RSS reader and set it to read just headlines. No extraneous words in headlines; or 4) find a site that better suits your style.

    on the same day that a lengthy post hits the recommended list on respecting dissent -- particularly respectful dissent. (Mary Mary Quite Contrary:  Defending Dissent on Daily Kos.)

    This is an unwarranted harsh response to a diary that is entitled "A Gentle Reminder" and carries that tone throughout.

    Kos -- you are certainly entitled to disagree with the results of the poll.  But try phrasing it like this:  "I've read the suggestion, and I disagree, I prefer that the front page carry the full diary."  You might even go so far as to say why you prefer the long version.  

    We need respect for arguments and dissent at every level of DailyKos.  You do not have to agree with someone to show them respect.  But civility and respect are the prerequisites to real discussions -- on all issues.

  •  A bit late coming to the party... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, Ladlergo

    I, too, have noted the growing length of the posts seen on the FP. I started reading kos' midday open thread on it and was glad to see the issue being brought up (maybe in part 'cause it vertified what I'd been noticing, and wasn't just going crazy)...however, then as I began reading kos' comments reacting to it... WHOA...completely dismissive IMHO.  But, mostly ironic considering the inconsistent comments throw out by kos on occassion with the "I'm just a man with a blog" vs. "tough shit/drop dead/find a new blog" vs. "it's not about me, the dKos community is bigger than one person" or whichever suits his argument at the time.

    But, I also do want to note that kos' choice of how to handle and respond to the issue is strikingly - and sadly - different than the mature, and respectful, way that georgia10 responded.  Kudos to her.

    And, perhaps it is time to start looking for another blog as kos suggests.  I read here often, don't post much, but bought advance copy of CTG -- but it sounds like another blog might appreciate my eyes-only participation and support of their site.

  •  Buncha fuckin crap (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:
    Plutonium Page

    Bullfuckingshit.  I can't fucking believe that the fuckwads in charge of publishing mainstream crap don't have the balls to call a fucking spade a spade.  Say the fucking words, for christ's fucking sake.  Jesus Fucking Christ.  What a bunch of pussies.  Who give's a rat's ass if words offend?  Honestly?  And what kind of nation are we if we are unable to see, hear, and think all the fucking words out there?

    See, it's indicative of the crap sandwich we have all been served that our nuts get twisted and chopped when it comes to thought and speech. I mean, for the love of fucking god, how fucking obscene is it that we can go to war, kill motherfuckers, lose motherfuckers to the war, and then never show their dead bodies on the front fucking page?  I mean, they fucking died, we fucking wrote about it, it fucking happened, and yet the shit never gets seen.

    And then we get a big fucking article about how our delicate little pussy flower minds are tainted by the overall fucking prevalence of fucking words?  Big fucking deal.  I mean, what the fuck?


    •  Please don't confuse (0+ / 0-)

      this poster with me.  

      Too close for comfort.

      (-6.75, -6.24) George W. Bush deserves a fair trial.

      by CJB on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 08:43:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  your attitude sounds strangely familiar (0+ / 0-)

      to the people who led us into war, isn't that what they called the democrats if they didn't vote to go to war: pussys.  No, there has to be a different language than bravado and power, and more an attitude that what i say matters, in terms of how it feels to another.  Flowers are lovely aren't they?  Don't hurt them.

      You also misunderstand obscene language from verbal combat.  You can say a thousand fucks and it doesn't mean anything, say Fuck you to somebody's face and see what happens.  I challenge you to the next time you have a disagreement with a stranger, IN THEIR PRESENCE, not in the anonymous, secure place in cyber and say, and say to that person to their face, FUCK YOU.  First would you be brave enough to do it as you seem to be here in your little secret,unknown face and secondly what would be their response?  What purpose would it have served?

      Common sense, man, common sense.

      •  That's prescient, but not necessarily apt (0+ / 0-)

        Maybe the sarcasm didn't translate.  The two things that didn't come across were such:

        Firstly, the startling disconnect between a profusion of perceived verbal profanity and the profanity of war.  Personally, I think the poll is massively incorrect, because profanity is as common as breathing, and it's a misconception that it remains shocking.  Maybe they polled only Mormon nurses in rural Kansas.

        Secondly, I make no misunderstanding between profanity and verbal combat.  In fact, I never even made the connection between the two.  

        Also, it's a mistake, I believe, to assume that there is a tangible difference between Democrats and Republicans as political agents in a legislative body that voted for the war.  In theory, yes.  In practice, no.

  •  Dick Ceneny (0+ / 0-)

    There's a real good video about Cheney at this site. It tells how when he was in charge of Haliberton, Cheney used to trade with Iraq while it was against U.S. law. Nobody ever says anything about what he did, but in the meantime, the FBI lured a Middle Eastern guy into this country from Canada with the promise of a fake business deal, then arrested him for "trading with Iran" even though it's not illegal in Canada where he did it from. The guy spent five years in jail for it, too. It also shows how Cheney told lies about Saddam in order to start the first Gulf War in 1991. He said Saddam had "tanks and half a million men massed on the Saudi border getting ready to invade". The truth was there was no one there. He lied to start war before (by claiming Saddam was going to attack Saudi Arabia) and he lied to start war again, (by claiming Saddam was going to attack us, using WMDs).

    All you have to do is to tell the people they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

    by William Domingo on Wed Mar 29, 2006 at 07:45:12 PM PST

  •  I propose to introduce the Closed Thread (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    speaking of real tough shit.

    A country is not only what it does - it is also what it puts up with, what it tolerates. - Kurt Tucholsky

    by mimi on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 09:13:36 AM PST

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