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High school students in the Twin Cities organized for months. Their goal was to lead the largest youth organized, anti-war protest since the Vietnam War. But as the date of the event approached, several factors worked against them. First, students passing out flyers on school grounds advertising the walkout, an event scheduled for a school day, were threatened with suspension or detention. Students who planned to attend the event were also warned that their absence was unexcused and would also face disciplinary action. Second, a peace concert planned for the event at Minneapolis Community and Technical College was shut down following pressure from police. College officials claimed that the anticipated size of the group, 2000 or more, was too large for their facility. Finally, on the day of the walkout, a moderate, steady rain fell. The rain was heavy enough to saturate clothing in 20-30 minutes.

Despite the obstacles, 500-600 or more students joined the walkout. Other media place the attendance at a smaller number (200), but one of my photos of the head of the march shows 40 people in first row. The dense crowd behind that group covered half a city block or more.

The event began with a gathering on Northrop Mall at the University of Minnesota. I began photographing the gathering as it was leaving the mall and marching toward a recruiting office on Washington Ave. Shortly after arriving at the recruiting office, someone threw a bucket of red paint on the window and door of the office, but most of the paint landed on the sidewalk.


After several minutes, a few participants began smearing the paint that was on the window and in the process they covered up signs, including one that said "The U.S. Army is now offering $40,000 enlistment cash bonus."



Within a few minutes, the police arrived and took some youth into custody. I saw one youth pushed hard against the wall of the building prior to being led through the crowd. Twin Cities Indy Media reports that Black bloc, a group of anarchists who participated in the rally, attempted to prevent the police from removing the persons alleged of committing civil disobedience.

As the bloc assembled and encouraged the crowd to resist the arrests, people rushed towards the unprotected officers dragging students away. A few horses were rushed into the crowd, and a few of the "official" organizers of the protest demanded that the protesters sit down.

While the main body of the protesters sat, the bloc was isolated and alone in their efforts to free the few who had been grabbed. Only one was rescued. The organizers demanded that the protesters remain seated while the police scoped out the isolated bloc. While the "official" organizers debated about what course of action to take, the arrested students were put in cars and removed from the event.


Not all students who had red paint on their hands participated in the vandalism. Many students had red faces and hands prior to the incident at the recruiting station. Indeed, red and its symbolism for blood was a theme of the protest. Persons found with red paint could not be accused of being caught "red handed."





The Star Tribune covered the story - their photographer is in one the images above in the doorway of the recruiting station. For their story, they quoted a high school freshman, Riva Garcia. She told the crowd comprised mostly of high school youth

that she believes the war is racist and that the military is using dirty tactics to get minorities to enlist. "We, as working class, minority and immigrant youth, deserve equal access to education," she said. "We don't deserve to die for our country just because someone told us to. We deserve to be heard, and to be recognized as the future of this country."


But the same story reported the statement of a college student who helped clean up the paint. He said "They disgraced our country and our military."

The same point was echoed by a local ABC affiliate that showed a clip of a middle-aged man questioning a youthful rally participant about the vandalism. The youth responded that she didn't do that (vandalize the recruiting office) but the man chided her anyway for being part of that group.

Shortly after the paint was thrown one of the spokesmen for the rally participants stated that the paint on the recruiting station that drew attention to their cause pales in comparison to the death in Iraq and the money being diverted from education and healthcare in the US. The students are also upset that recruiters are allowed in their schools. In a message left on one of my photo sites, a respondent said some rally participants

were resisting both the war and the complacency of the anti-war movement. The current movement has become a parody of resistance, with nothing more than mass gatherings and symbolic protest. While most the students gathered remained in a mode of repeat, a group of a few individuals had had enough. They replaced meaningless symbolic protest with real resistance.


UPDATE: All the protesters didn't agree with the paint thrown on the recruiting office window. Only one person committed that act. I may have not made that clear in my diary. Like many in the progressive community, people are divided about how to approach the problem of a government that disregards international law, the U.S. consitution and the will of its people. I have learned from a recent post to the Twin Cities Indy Media (link above) that of the 6 persons arrested, one is charged with a felony, avery serious crime.

I have a lot more photos from this event at the following this LINK

Originally posted to Kayakbiker on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 08:48 AM PDT.

Poll

What is your view of this protest?

69%111 votes
24%39 votes
5%9 votes

| 159 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Since the bushies don't care (7+ / 0-)

    I'd rather see these kids NOT end up in jail.  The Berrigans were adults when they threw blood on the draft records. I wonder how many kids realized they could go to jail?

    I'd rather see them do passive protests outside rather than vandalizing any place.

    And as the wife of a Navy retired vet, I can tell you the poor schmucks stuck with the awful job of recruiter don't need the hassle. Theya re under pressure to meet a quota--and I highly disapprove of many of the methods used, including not making full disclosure that you can be stoploosed or recalled to duty, but I DOunderstnad why some resort to it. My husband turned down several sets of orers to do recruiting--he'd rather have sea duty.,

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 08:49:28 AM PDT

    •  Sympathize with your comment, (5+ / 0-)

      but these kids are looking at the future planned for them and they don't want it. Even now, with the truth widely acknowledged, who is stopping the madness? Do you blame them for reseorting to propaganda by deed? Notice the old familiar splits even in this group; only a few endorse this "vandalism". This will be called violence - right.

      •  It's BECAUSE it will (5+ / 0-)

        be called violence--and destroying property is a form of violence.

        I'd rather see a silent sit-in.

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:07:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course it will. (3+ / 0-)

          They'll be called all sorts of things. They need support.

          Proportionality. This isn't violence against people or even property damage of any consequence. Do we just wait until there is 100% consensus on the proper course of action and belittle everything else? The situation is extreme - past time for handwringing about perfect etiquette.

          •  'temporary vandalism' (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Kayakbiker

            Would this be different had the students used a water-soluble paint or paint substitute, one that could be washed away easily after the protest?

            I can't condone vandalism... not yet, at least. At some point it may be necessary to yes, throw ourselves on the gears of the machine. Are we there yet? I can see how a lot of people think, yes. Me, I'm not so sure.

            I do think that protesters can stage theatrical demonstrations that drive home powerful points without causing permanent damaga to structures or businesses. In fact, that's one of the benefits of a merry prank.

            Back in high school, some people snuck onto school grounds in the middle of the night and painted the school statue (a Trojan warrior cast in iron) a bright flourescent orange. The next morning the principal was apoplectic. Police were brought in. Suspected students were brought to the administrative offices. The school buzzed.

            That afternoon, as predicted by weather forecasters, a downpour occurred. The paint washed right off, and all the "evidence" swirled down gutters and into drains.

            But the impact had already been made.

            "Act as if what you do makes a difference. It does." -- William James

            by BobzCat on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 12:49:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I see vandalizing a recruiting office (10+ / 0-)

        as blaming the miltiry--same crap that happened in the 60s when Nam vets wereregarded as pondscum, babykillers and drug addicts.

        The military isn't to blame. It is actually starting to protest the policies and speak oput as much as members can while active duty (a lot of retirees are though).

        The policymakers are.

        If you're gonna vandalize something, go after Republican HQ. THEY are the bastards to blame.  Burn Bush in effigy in Lafayette Park. Get a BIG rally down town and center it round the office of a Bush-loving Republican.

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:11:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But the recruiters are in their schools (5+ / 0-)

          and some of them lie to meet their  quotas. I was lied to when I enlisted during the Vietnam war.  I will write a diary on the topic someday and include a bunch of references I've saved from recent incidents.  

          Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann

          by Kayakbiker on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:14:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kayakbiker, Mason6883, buhdydharma

          No matter what the economic pressures, the presure of the job, etc. a lie is a lie and the tactics they have been using are outrageous. A limit to excuses.

          •  NOT justifying the recruiting lies (0+ / 0-)

            I HATE them.  Because I know what they involve in terms of stop loss and  indefinite extension (they tried to use that on my husband). But vandalizing a recruiting office doesn't just say "Recruiters lie. Stop it"--it says the troops are the bad guys as well--ESPECIALLY in light of Nam and the way vets were treated.

            Unless the signs target recruiters specifically, it comes across as dissing ALL of the military--including the many on our side.  

            We need to say we REALLY support the troops--by working to get better VA hospitals, better bennies for those maimed--but deplore the lies,whether told by recruiters or the prez.

            BIG difference in approach.

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 11:52:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  is there room for both? (0+ / 0-)

              reality...is the result of war between two rival groups of Programmers

              by buhdydharma on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 12:09:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't think so. (0+ / 0-)

                Because what comes off is an attack Ont he military, the troops themselves--and it gets people thinking the way some of the younger folks here are already thinking that military =killers/evil/monsters (not many, but enough to be depressing).

                My husband suggested a BETTTER way to handle the recruiters: and out FACT SHEETS to anyone going in. It means having people there in shifts--but it'll do more good and be more responsible than being vandals IF the reason is to attack lying recruiters. I fit's to attack the military itself--then I don't and won't approve because we are attacking our own.  Go after the policy makers. AMarch to Congressional offices when the jerk is home. March to the Senators' offices.  Make THEM know that they will lose a LOT of votes if they continue supporting Bush.  Blame the people who gave us the war--the pols.

                The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                by irishwitch on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 06:14:56 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  consider this, please (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Kayakbiker
              vandalizing a recruiting office -- or any other facility that operationalizes public policy with which one disagrees (passionately) -- actually does disrupt that facility's current and/or onging processes (e.g. recruitment and enlistment, public education, worship). normally, vandalism is not a personal affront; it is at once a symbolic and political attack. property damage or defacement is literally and figuratively  "collateral" damage to the processing and means you eloquently describe.

              disruption of systematic organization is the purpose of all civil disobedience.

              what vandalism "says", when an act (e.g. graffitti, red paint, burning autos) fails or is expected to fail to disrupt the system which it rejects, is that "i am defeated. i am powerless." so is it so surprising some students also volunteered to clean up the red paint?

              these acts are indeed literary devices, fiction, subject to interpretation or interrogation. is it so surprising then that graffitti "artists" managed to achieve a fashionable status in art markets?

              but why did some students "volunteered" to escalate violence in their protest? arrests are an incremental measure of systemic dysfunction. so many small, personal sacrifices at home in fact bolster the number of casualties and dead returning from abroad who are, who remain, dependents of a moral corrupt political government. would ribbons suffice?

              now, imagine a circle -- as in systems notation -- a closed circle without breaks or environmental information (injunctive feeds to/from independent circles). this circle represents international war. one of the missing circles is the VA's economies; its dependents swell while funding shrinks, because its administration is NOT systematically responsive to war creation. now, the other circles are external influences on shrub llp decision agenda -- and are excluded.

              in fact, the predicament in which we find ourselves is not a war of words. it is the calumny of death, as you indicate. so targeting one point in the circle of war, the source, if i may say so, of manufactured soldiers and vets, its collateral, is both proper and fitting to the purpose of civil disobedience.

              ask yourself once again, is this tactic more or less instrumental to disrupting war OR fomenting war? is this tactic more or less instrumental to supporting the enlisted nation's military?

              Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

              by MarketTrustee on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 11:10:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Imagine the protest when they start the draft (5+ / 0-)
  •  I agree (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irate, melvin, buhdydharma

    I was thinking about having something in the title of this diary about "1966 or 2006" -- the idea was suggested by my sister when she saw the photos. It reminds us of the Vietnam protests, but as you mention, back then there was a draft.  

    Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann

    by Kayakbiker on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 08:53:57 AM PDT

  •  Can't wait to see the poll results. (5+ / 0-)

    Every possible action short of Oprah releasing a white dove seems to be viewed as an embarassment. Who gets the right to sit in judgement on these kids? They know what they are doing.

  •  Counter productive (11+ / 0-)

    Protest, yes. Vandalism, no. It just gives ammo to the wingnuts. The kids would've done better to get recruiting lit from the army and distributed it to young Rethugs and other Chickenhawk Bushies.

    Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

    by drewfromct on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 08:59:52 AM PDT

    •  There is always a group (3+ / 0-)

      acting on its own.

      Judge the GOP by Duke Cunningham then.

      •  I do (3+ / 0-)

        judge the GOoPers by their worst bad apples. Just as the wingnuts judge us by the worst actions of Bill Clinton getting a bj in the oval office--or a bunch of rowdie hippy kids throwing paint on a recruiting office. I don't disagree one tiny bit with these kids' motives, but I wish they'd had the foresight to realize how their actions will be seen and judged by those whom they are trying to convince. What's next, stopping traffic? You can't win people over to your point of view by making them late for work.

        Vandalism might be fun, but it does'nt win arguements. And anybody getting arrested for it will have a much tougher time explaining away their "youthful indescretions" than hypocritical rich winger coke fiend.

        Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

        by drewfromct on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:17:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah I actually misread the sentiment here (4+ / 0-)

      I'm actually really surprised that folks here are condoning the vandalism.  That's not what civil disobediance is about (not the kind that my parents taught me, which is what their parents taught to them, who were taught by Gandhi during the Indian independence movement).  It's about bringing about change by forcing your opponent to become your ally through compassion and understanding - by forcing your opponent to be the human being he or she really is, by forcing your opponent to embrace a sense of common humanity.  Granted it's a long, slow process, but the point is not quickness, it's doing good in an honourable, compassionate fashion.

      Give me liberty, or give me death!

      by salsa0000 on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:15:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What about the Boston Tea Party? (6+ / 0-)

        Maybe they should have just carried signs and written the government letters delineating their complaints.

        Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann

        by Kayakbiker on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:36:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Dude (0+ / 0-)

          Don't tell me that you're comparing the U.S. military to British imperialists.  You should retract that now.

          Give me liberty, or give me death!

          by salsa0000 on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:16:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i think not. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            melvin, buhdydharma
            this is an accurate reference in the context of colonial rebellion.

            whereas yours begs the question of iraqi violence against deployed US troops in iraq.

            in the domestic US, national guard and reserve typically have been employed to quash domestic unrest, uh, civil disobedience or enforce compliance. and yes sometimes enlisted troops have been deployed.

            you also want to reconsider how many of indians were commissioned by the british, how many of gandhi's followers died in that war of independence.

            Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

            by MarketTrustee on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:42:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Pressed post a little too quickly (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cecrops Tangaroa, Kayakbiker

          Those were different times, too.  We shouldn't forget that.  Now that we know that there's another way of doing things we should realise that and update accordingly.  

          Actually doesn't what you just wrote give you even more appreciation for the genius of Gandhi?  Just imagine - he freed a whole country without doing even a Boston Tea Party!

          Give me liberty, or give me death!

          by salsa0000 on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:18:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe if the kids had been taught Gandhi's ... (0+ / 0-)

            methods in school they would have pursued them rather than the ones they were taught that is the model for our country.  

            Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann

            by Kayakbiker on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:20:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Gandhi didnt do a Boston Tea Party? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eternal Hope, melvin, buhdydharma
            •  If I'm not mistaken.. (0+ / 0-)

              ..this is a picture from the salt gathering, is that correct?  How is that in any way like the Tea Party?

              Give me liberty, or give me death!

              by salsa0000 on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:40:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well Gandhi sprinkled (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Kayakbiker, melvin, buhdydharma

                some salt into his tea during negotiations after the march and remarked "it was a little salt for my tea, to remind us of the Boston tea party."

                I think the protests are strikingly similar, and I'm somewhat used to the 2 events being referred to simultaneously.

                You could listen to this NPR story for more:

                http://www.npr.org/...

                I could make a bulleted list if you prefer.

                •  Ok maybe I was being unclear (0+ / 0-)

                  Sorry about that.  Really what I mean is that the salt march is nothing like the tea party in the sense of using vandalism as a means to an end.  

                  The diarist made the sarcastic point (it's a valid criticism of this whole approach, in my opinion, just one that I weigh the pros and cons of and decide to ignore), in response to my criticism of using vandalism against the military recruiting station, that maybe the Tea Party folks should've just written letters, etc.  I then made the point that Gandhi managed to free India without even that much vandalism.  So in that context I don't see how the salt march is at all germane to this discussion - but that's a hell of a picture and I'm going to steal it :-)

                  The other thing I wanted to say and accidentally left out is that if you must choose physical destruction as a means, there's a difference between enacting destruction against a foreign aggressor (a la Boston Tea Party) and your fellow citizens (military recruiting stations).  That is important to remember.

                  Give me liberty, or give me death!

                  by salsa0000 on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:58:15 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The British (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MarketTrustee

                    certainly considered both to be acts of vandalism.

                    The Boston Tea Party and the Salt March were both non-violent acts of vandalism against foreign powers forming a monopoly to the detriment of local citizens.

                    I agree that mounting a protest against recruiting stations is probably not so comparable anyway because of the lack of foreign element.

                  •  is property more important than freedom? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    MarketTrustee

                    reality...is the result of war between two rival groups of Programmers

                    by buhdydharma on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 11:27:29 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Not helpful (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      buhdydharma

                      This kind of reductio ad absurdum is not helpful in analysing what's going on, I think.  Obviously when push comes to shove, property is not more important than freedom.  But you're offering a false dilemma that simply never really comes up.  The important thing isn't to sit back and debate whether property is more important than freedom - it's to be effective in securing freedom.  And it's very rare that only destruction of property (or life) is the only way to achieve that end - in fact among the only instances I can think of at all that perhaps required property destruction was something like the French Revolution and even that took the violence to excess.  

                      Gandhi's genius was not just in morality - he was a savvy politicial genius as well.  He realised that it would be impossible for India to throw off the yoke of British imperialism by force so he did it by peace, without destruction, instead.  Martin Luther King's savvy political genius came to the same conclusion because he realised that his people needed to actually live side-by-side with the people he was protesting against after the revolution ended, and he realised that violence would surely leave emotions raw for a long time and make peaceful coexistence hard to achieve.

                      What I'm saying is that we need to appreciate the political wisdom of Gandhi and King.  Vandalising a military recruiting office may seem like a fair thing to do, but it's not an effective thing to do - it just allows our opponents to paint us in a negative light and we've gone down that road too many times now.  It also belies the fact that our fight isn't with the little guys at the bottom - it's with the big guys at the top and so vandalising a little doesn't actually achieve our end at all.

                      Give me liberty, or give me death!

                      by salsa0000 on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 12:14:06 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  and again i ask (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Kayakbiker, melvin, MarketTrustee

                        Where is a ghandi, where is a King.

                        The fact that we are discussing it so thoroughly, means implicitly that it is effective, if not morally pure.

                        or opponents always paint us in the worst possible light, evidence or not. you know this. Is the PR value to them more valuable or is having somone standing up and saying NO, even if it is NOT done perfectly, more valuable? what about the young activists who, now they are involved cam mature and become more effective? What are they worth.

                        I'm sorry but if you constantly measure your actions and THOUGHTS by what the RW will say you have already lost. Read sun tzu, the republicans have.

                        And finally I'm sure if the 16 yr old kids could have thrown paint on rumsfeld they would have...what other target for their anger at having their future transformed into an endless War on Terror?

                        reality...is the result of war between two rival groups of Programmers

                        by buhdydharma on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 12:23:43 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  the link below (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                melvin, buhdydharma

                the picture also has more info on the salt march.

          •  I you find a new ghandi to unify behind (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Kayakbiker, melvin, MarketTrustee
            let me know.

            I'm afraid I'm not going to sit around and wait

            reality...is the result of war between two rival groups of Programmers

            by buhdydharma on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 11:22:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Barack? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              buhdydharma

              He might be our guy someday.  But you're right, we really have a dearth of truly visionary leaders right now and that's really distressing.  I actually cannot think of a time since the Great Depression that we've had such mediocre people in power.  All I'm asking, though, is that we focus on antagonising the Big Fish and not worry so much about little things.  We're doing really well on this right now and we could wreck everything by engaging in the latter.

              Give me liberty, or give me death!

              by salsa0000 on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 12:19:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  absolutely right - vandalism is WRONG (6+ / 0-)

      Some students vandalized the ROTC building at the University of North Carolina a few days ago. They did something similar with red paint, and even spray-painted some messages on the exterior.

      It was an absolute disgrace. I'm ashamed that anyone would do that trying to make a political statement - and I'm even more ashamed that they had to disgrace what also happens to be MY political opinion (against the war in Iraq) with their stupidity and vandalism.

      This kind of stuff is just plain WRONG. Kayakbiker, you should be ashamed of yourself for promoting their vandalism as if it's something to be proud of, and even worse you should be ashamed for pretending that the kids who got arrested for it are somehow "victims."

      •  I'm not glorifying their vandalism (6+ / 0-)

        The vandelism was done by one person who threw the bucket of paint.  Several high school students then began to draw peace signs in it on the window, and a few were arrested.

        What I am happy to report is that youth are concerned about the direction of their government and taking action about it. The anti-war movement in the Twin Cities is not just baby boomers -- it's alive and well.  

        Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann

        by Kayakbiker on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:24:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  and you are a fine reporter (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kayakbiker, melvin
          the presentation of this news is balanced -- insofar as i personally don't give a crap how many pro-war demonstrators were in the mix. OTOH, if there were any, there would be real blood in the story.

          the drama critics on this thread might do well to consider that alternative.

          peaceful protest in this country, historically, is most "effective" when peaceful demonstrators are maimed, jailed, or killed.

          Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

          by MarketTrustee on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:26:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm sorry. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          melvin, buhdydharma
          I just can't get upset about a bucket of fucking paint.

          VANDALISM!!!

          Oh, whatever will we tell the children! Give me a break. In general I prefer nonviolence--but I think red paint is fair game.

          I believe in supporting our service personnel, and I'm sorry the recruiters are placed in the position of lying. But as long as we're on this big "personal responsibility" kick with vandalism and all, let's call it for what it is. These recruiters are lying with impunity. I know there is tremendous pressure being applied, but they are still morally responsible (and reprehensible).

          I am 100% against all the things being done to our active-duty personnel and especially our veterans by this band of crooks. But unfortunately they volunteered and a majority of them voted republican. Our military today skews conservative AND southern. Let's not forget that the only two states with dedicated state military academies are Virginia (VMI) and South Carolina (Citadel).

          I think what the students did was measured and appropriate and I hope more people do the same. Go right up to the line of what is acceptable and maybe push the envelope a little. If recruiters get hassled a little like Santa Cruz and some other campuses, fine. No physical threats or intimidation, but get in their faces.

          We need to take our country back through every legal means, and that means getting uppity and acting up sometimes.  Personally I think it's long past time.

      •  Anti-abortion protestors (5+ / 0-)

        Non-violent anti-abortion protestors know how to make themselves a huge pain to abortion clinics without committing vandalism or worse.  Perhaps their methods should be studied.  

        •  That's a great idea.... (3+ / 0-)

          The hard part is getting ALL of the participants to agree.  Many have the same goal, but because of different levels of thoughtfulness, frustration, immaturity, and anger, they elect to pursue different options.  

          Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann

          by Kayakbiker on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:19:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  True (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Kayakbiker

            and it's important for those who don't agree with the paint throwers to not let themselves get "lumped in" by the wingnuts who will say, "Well, you were in the same protest with them, therefore you're a painthrower, too, etc..."

            The reason I maintain firmly that the "hippier" styles of protest are ineffective and even counter-productive is because I talk to a lot of moderates who tell me that is how these things are viewed by a lot of mainstream citizens.I, for one, can see where they're coming from.

            I know that getting ALL protesters to agree on any one kind of strategy is impossible--the ultimate in cat-herding. But I do hope that some smart folk can take a good, hard look at what is and is not effective, and then use that knowledge to good influence.

            Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

            by drewfromct on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 11:28:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  I love this diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kayakbiker, melvin, buhdydharma
    and am spreading the love!!!
  •  God bless these young courageous Patriots! (4+ / 0-)

    It's time to be a Democrat!

    by annefrank on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:06:48 AM PDT

  •  If 10,000 protesters show up (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    melvin, buhdydharma

    The local media claim it was 300 --- and they interview one pro-Bush supporter and one anti-war protester without showing the crowd.  

    Protests to date have been ineffective.  I'm not advocating vandalism, but I can see how people are becomming frustrated in not being represented by their government.

    I believe too that the paint was more symbolic than destructive.  

    Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann

    by Kayakbiker on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:07:02 AM PDT

  •  stupid but not embarassment (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    buhdydharma

    stupid:

    (1) Vandalism is a stupid form of protest.

    (2) The object of protest I believe is misplaced in this case. While I think people can raise concerns about recruitment techniques, I believe that is a separate issue from the Iraq War.

    not embarassment

    (1) These are kids.

    (2) There is no hierarchal structure of protests whereby various people who disagree with various aspect of various government policies get together and approve or dissapprove of various protest techniques.

  •  THIS FILLS ME WITH SO MUCH EXCITEMENT AND HOPE (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kayakbiker, melvin, buhdydharma

    Thank you for posting this diary too.

    The D A stands for Dumb Ass.

    by DABush on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:18:58 AM PDT

  •  NO BLOOD FOR OIL (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kayakbiker, melvin, buhdydharma
    Even conservatives are saying:

    NO BODIES FOR BARRELS

    http://www.truthout.org/...

  •  Civil Disobedience (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kayakbiker, buhdydharma
    This is a prime example.

    Here is the background:

    http://www.cs.indiana.edu/...

    Henry David Thoreau

  •  Oh hell, you can clean up red paint (5+ / 0-)

    They didn't break any windows or otherwise damage any property.

    I'm a lot older than these kids (was in college during Viet Nam war) but would have been right there with them. Sometimes you have to make a strong statement and not worry about who you have offended or whether the press is going to misread your intentions.

    ***Every pig has his Saturday***

    by TampaProgressive on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:25:05 AM PDT

    •  but who's going to clean it up? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      drewfromct
      It'll probably come out of our tax dollars.
      I've been in countless protests and yet, I can't help but get negative vibes from events like this.

      To me, this goes back to the basic question of what the point of a protest is in the first place.  To me, it has always been about influencing public opinion and thus, influencing the government.  Unfortunately, for too many naive protestors, it is simply about expressing their rage.

      Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that they actually care about what's going on (unlike most of their peers), but I just think there are way more productive actions for them to undertake and don't like the idea of encouraging this kind of counterproductive action.

  •  I'm a practical guy (5+ / 0-)

    I ask what are my goals, and will my actions help this goal.

    I'm human, I dont always get it right, but I dont think these kid's actions are really going to help their goal.

    1. All they've done is present the recruiters (and by extension the Army) in a sympathetic light. If their goal was to do the opposite, they failed IMO.
    1. Doing something merely to say you did something is about the most meaningless thing you can do. Wouldnt their time have been better spent, oh I dont know, protesting when the recruiters show up to recruit their local high school? Perhaps standing silently with tshirts and signs when the recruiters come into the school to recruit? Point is, there were a lot better ways to accomplish their goal.

    And vandalism is just wrong. Civil disobediance is a sit-in, or a refusal to move, or using your voice. It aint vandalism.

  •  Of course it's good (7+ / 0-)

    Any time high school students are willing to organize and protest the war ... in any way ... they help further the cause of ending the war.

    Good for them. I hope they continue to educate their fellow students, and continue to march. 2,000 students planning to go is incredible.

    PS
    If you don't think demonstrations change anything, look at what was accomplished in France recently (changed a law!), or in the US in terms of the debate on "immigration reform".

    It's the "anti-fear-propaganda" solution: positive news: HeroicStories, free

    by AllisonInSeattle on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:02:25 AM PDT

  •  Great diary, great pics (4+ / 0-)

    Thank you.

    It's the "anti-fear-propaganda" solution: positive news: HeroicStories, free

    by AllisonInSeattle on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:04:03 AM PDT

  •  Radical begets radical (4+ / 0-)

    a group of a few individuals had had enough. They replaced meaningless symbolic protest with real resistance.

    It's not surprising that protests are turning more confrontational; polite marches down the street excite the immediate crowd but do not get even cursory media coverage. When you are repeatedly ignored, you tend to get louder and radical.

    I was radicalized 6 years ago.

    Al Gore had the goods on global warming in 1992. Read "Earth in the Balance".

    by Civil Defiance on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:23:43 AM PDT

  •  Well that was fun!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kayakbiker, melvin

    thanks KB!Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

    reality...is the result of war between two rival groups of Programmers

    by buhdydharma on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 12:08:17 PM PDT

  •  Our kids are pawns- (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kayakbiker, melvin

    I do NOT condone the paint spilling episode, but I understand the helplessness that caused it.

    Our leaders are failing us.  

    We should not be in a position where we are driven to the ends of sanity to preserve our way of life.

    It is those who risk all that force our leaders to correct injustice.

    Three dead in Mississippi for registering black voters, who had the RIGHT to vote.  Why?  Because of the complacency of leadership.

    Four dead in Ohio-(and 69,000 in Vietnam) because of a complacent leadership.  

    History tells us, that nothing will change until the worst happens.

  •  Excellent that black bloc rescued at least one. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kayakbiker

    I think the resistance is necessary!!!

    LetsFight. re handle: Fight the radical right is the sentiment!

    by letsfight on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 04:17:42 PM PDT

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