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AP has reported that the evidence obtained on the 24 Iraqi deaths in Haditha indicates that the Marines deliberately shot the unarmed civilians, to include women and children.  The commander of the accused Marines' unit bears the responsibility of deciding whether to press criminal charges.  The current commander is, conveniently, being reassigned to the Pentagon.  Taking his place is Lt. Gen. James Mattis.

Mattis is the general who said in 2005:


"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot.  It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling.  You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

I look forward to General Mattis' decision regarding these four accused Marines.  Since the Marines' actions lacked any manhood whatsoever, I'm expecting this General's decision to be just short of a firing squad, in the name of fairness and consistency.

Originally posted to lebkuchen on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 11:38 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Well, that's just lovely, isn't it (6+ / 0-)

    Such humane sentiments. I'm glad to know the decision is in the hands of such a temperate, wise man.

    Pardon me while I barf.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 11:36:33 AM PDT

  •  your diary coincides with my pondering (10+ / 0-)

    this morning about this:

    exactly when did we go to war with islam?

    this isn't about saddam, it isn't about "iran" and nukes - this is about the new and improved bogyman - ISLAM!  

    think replacing "communism" with "islamic" and we're there - the new and improved cold war without end!

    after all, how many muslims are there?  "we won't stop until every terrorist is eliminated!" etc...

    so much for peace, religious tolerance, etc.  look for a planet exploding somewhere under you in the near future!

    [god save us from the idiots who profess to speak for "god"! - can'tcha just smite 'em or something?  please!!!]

    •  A great time to invest, once again, in defense (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, corvo, Lashe

      That's why Bush Sr. is an advisor to the Carlyle Group, and one of the richest people on the planet.  I anticipate Tony Blair to join The Group shortly--his reward for pulling off his impression of a poodle and pony show, UK style.

      Re:  Mattis, you may appreciate this Stars and Stripes letter, published Feb. 9, 2005:

      Mattis' comments no surprise

      Well, Lt. Gen. James Mattis certainly caused a stir recently in patriotic circles. As an experienced Marine commander who led troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, his comments about the joys and fun of killing human beings were rather vulgar and gruesome. His assertion that is fun to shoot guys that “ain’t got no manhood” makes one wonder if there are other military geniuses in high or low position of like disposition.

      Of course, we do have the evidence of similar thinking and behavior from the perpetrators of the Abu Ghraib incidents of prison abuse. Maybe the lust for killing and abusing combatants and innocents alike that manifested itself with people like Lt. William Calley at My Lai in Vietnam is still much in evidence in our military.

      Of course, do not mention this idea to the Texas Swift boaters who denied such a possibility in the recent presidential campaign. Perhaps Sen. John Kerry was right about American military behavior in Vietnam.

      All pro-lifers who focus on the single issue of abortion might rightly examine pro-life issues in regard to American military behavior past and present. (By the way, that challenge is for George Bush and all church leaders who have remained silent on the moral issues concerning the pre-emptive war in Iraq based on false assumptions.)

      That would be a real values discussion for people who relish dropping smart bombs from the safety of 30,000 feet or picking off people with automatic weapons as if they were at a carnival turkey shoot.

      Terrence Lauerman
      De Pere, Wis.

      "Whether ours shall be a government of laws and not of men is now for Congress and ultimately the American people."--Watergate Prosecutor Archibald Cox

      by lebkuchen on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 11:59:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i keep on thinking this when i read of pro-'life' (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ckntfld, corvo, Capn Guts, lebkuchen

        maybe the reason they want all those "poor" babies born is that they need replacements for the decimated military... maybe they need people to "torture" - without the "undesirables", who, then, would be their victims?  

        who, then, could be exploited and forced to be a permanent underclass?

        who, then, could be the fodder for their wars?

        who, then, would be the "target" for all the "failures" of society?

        one more note:  if you aren't watching, then catch the replay of the senate armed forces hearings defining how to treat "detainees".

        abugonzales at his "finest" - even mccain is looking downright ill... maybe he is realizing what HE would have been subjected to under the hands of an "enemy" bush regime!

        lindsay graham is even having difficulty swallowing abu-g's swill!

        a disturbing "must-watch", folks!

        •  That's why there was no increase in minimum wage (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo

          An increase would have meant fewer HS graduates/dropouts looking to the military for employment.

          Is the "detainee" hearing on C-Span?  I will have a look.  Thanks for the tip.  I'm overseas, so don't get it on the tube.

          "Whether ours shall be a government of laws and not of men is now for Congress and ultimately the American people."--Watergate Prosecutor Archibald Cox

          by lebkuchen on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:41:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the hearing is on cspan - probably will have to (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lebkuchen

            catch a replay since it was live... more tomorrow.

            rumsfeld has refused to meet in an open hearing - has met with republican senators behind closed doors (probably getting talking points straight) and tomorrow are other reps - but no rummy.

            hilary took warner to task for allowing rummy to skip out on accountability moment and has asked for him to be scheduled to answer to the voters!  

            the hearing today had gonzales and several others from defense - i missed most of it - was working, but will watch later when it is rebroadcast.

            thank god for c-span - the answer to bimbo broadcast network!

            the downside?  being "informed" is very depressing!

            ok - back to work - and good viewing to you!

            •  CBC and BBC are such a contrast to US news (0+ / 0-)

              I spoke with some Canadians about that recently, and they told me they watch US news and find it biased.  You don't say.

              Thanks for the info.  I will check out C-SPAN's website.

              "Whether ours shall be a government of laws and not of men is now for Congress and ultimately the American people."--Watergate Prosecutor Archibald Cox

              by lebkuchen on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 03:23:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  i can't get cbc - but periodically can get part (0+ / 0-)

                ob bbc and deutsche welle - there is SUCH a contrast!

                this is the reason i go to foreign news sources for what is really going on in the world!

                i keep the yahoo newspaper list bookmarked for all countries and then when i meet someone from another country, i ask for english translated web/news sites.

                i cannot ABIDE the bimbo and bobblehead ken networks - the stories are all about THEM!  WHEN they finally shut their mouths and let the guest speak, the segment is out of time!

                i absolutely loathe what the american media has become!  

  •  With those sentiments (0+ / 0-)

    I don't think he'll go lightly on any Marine who broke any rules.  Sounds like a hardass. The prosecution better have it's ducks in a row, though.  

    I had a captain like that in the Navy.  You didn't want to hear him talk about women or Democrats or dirty hippies, but the SOB was not easy on miscreants defiling his ship.  Real hardass.

    "Facts are stupid things"-- Ronald Reagan 1988

    by dougymi on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 11:51:49 AM PDT

    •  The brigade's commander gave orders (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, corvo, esquimaux, dougymi, Lashe

      to "kill all of them," meaning insurgents--however one interprets "insurgents."  Do you think such orders, and comments made by three star generals (see original post), influence the type of deranged psychopathic behavior seen in some of our troops?  

      When Mattis made his comments, in 2005, he was berated by a Muslim organization, which demanded that Mattis be disciplined.  There was no formal reprimand, Mattis did not apologize, he did not agree to be interviewed, and the Marines quickly closed the case, an encouragement to subordinates, however unintended, to run amok?  I ask because, let's face it, many of them have.

      "Whether ours shall be a government of laws and not of men is now for Congress and ultimately the American people."--Watergate Prosecutor Archibald Cox

      by lebkuchen on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 12:40:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yah, comments like that certainly can (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lebkuchen

        but again, it's not surprising that he would say this kind of thing.  I'm not justifying it and I hope you don't take it that way, but it is the attitude of a lot of commanders in the military and something the military has been dealing with throughout it's history.  Patton and Lemay were noted for their rhetoric in the same way in WW2, but they were fiercely protective of their commands and would respond harshly to miscreants.

        I can't justify the comments and I won't even try since I think they were wrong and inflammatory, but I think that it's likely that the men involved in Haditha will face harsh judgement from Mattis. I'd like to see justice go up the chain of command as much as you would, I just think it's unlikely in the Pentagon of donald rumsfeld.  To go higher in the chain of command would mean that rummy would have to admit to a mistake in appointing mattis to begin with, and he's not likely to admit any mistake.

        "Facts are stupid things"-- Ronald Reagan 1988

        by dougymi on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:03:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A friend and I met a couple of National Guard (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, dougymi

          in a Minn. mall.  

          My friend, a vet, spoke to them.  They were from IA, TDY for training and about to be deployed for a third time, 2nd deployment to Iraq.  The older one said that many of his friends had been killed or wounded in past deployments, and that several of the Guard were returning for revenge.

          There is a strong undercurrent of anti-Islamic sentiment in US military.  Our troops have not been trained, to the degree of militaries of the European Union, to understand the culture of the country they are supposed to be helping.  Comments made by our generals and WH politicians indicate that understanding others' cultures is no more what they're about than Tommy Franks is about counting bodies.  Their lack of cultural training, and even basic appreciation of differences, has worked to the great detriment of our presence in the Middle East.

          Mattis will now reap what I believe he has contributed to sowing. I look forward to (as Bush often says) Mattis' decision on the 4 marines.  He has the choice not to press criminal charges.  We shall see if you're correct, that he not only will prosecute, but will do so harshly.

          "Whether ours shall be a government of laws and not of men is now for Congress and ultimately the American people."--Watergate Prosecutor Archibald Cox

          by lebkuchen on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:36:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're so right (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lebkuchen

            look at boykins and his anti-islamic comments prior to the war. They were disgusting.   We need a complete change in the military structure and I hope the next  POTUS or VPOTUS or secdef makes it a priority.  Someone like Wes Clark would be a natural to make that kind of reform.  There are other good people in the pentagon who know full well how our anti-islamic attitude has hurt us in this conflict.  None of them are trusted by the current administration.

            "Facts are stupid things"-- Ronald Reagan 1988

            by dougymi on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:50:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Now we have target-list competitions (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dougymi

              and orders from Lt. Commanders on up and down the chain of command to "kill all military-age males."  And they expect attacks against Americans, whether stateside or abroad, to diminish after perpetuating this barbarism?  Give me an effing break.

              Bush has turned the planet into a living hell.

              "Whether ours shall be a government of laws and not of men is now for Congress and ultimately the American people."--Watergate Prosecutor Archibald Cox

              by lebkuchen on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 03:31:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Given that... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, corvo, Lashe

    one of the accused is talking about suing Murtha for defamation and libel, the truth may come out anyway.

  •  Shooting women and kids probably gets him hard (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, esquimaux

    Tell me this fuck was NOT hand picked by Rumsfeld and Cheney to decide this case.

    Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 12:27:53 PM PDT

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