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Joe Scarborough, conservative host and former congressman (class of 1994), sent me this email (which I got permission to print):

The conventional wisdom for tonight's Connecticut primary seems to be that a Joe Leiberman loss will yank the Democratic Party so far left as to make other Democratic candidates unelectable this fall. The logic is laughable and similar to what I heard from Republican leaders in 1994.

That was the election year when the most conservative wing of the GOP took over the party and swept into power in the US Congress. None would have predicted that outcome just two years earlier.

George Bush's loss to Bill Clinton in 1992 had put Republican operatives and strategists in a panic. They feared that Bush had been beaten like a drum because radical conservatives like Pat Buchanan, Phyllis Shaffley and Pat Robertson had hijacked the GOP Convention. So while Bill Clinton spent the next two years moving left, the Republican National Committee desperately sought moderate candidates that would talk, walk and vote like, say, Joe Lieberman. The goal was to blur all differences between Republicans and Democrats.

Because of that logic, I spent most of 1994 fighting Republican bureaucrats on the local, state and federal level who did everything in their power to elect my very moderate opponent in the GOP primary. A week before the primary, the Republican Congressional Committee campaign director let me know that I might as well give up. 1994 would be the year of the Moderate.

Yeah, right.

Within a few months of that conversation, scores of right-wing, knuckle-dragging, spear-carrying conservative barbarians like myself ran through our moderate Democratic opponents like Barry Bonds through a bottle of roids. It was ugly. Darting to the base was the ticket to victory for the Party of Reagan.

Fast forward twelve years and now we find many making the same misguided arguments, except this time they are giving their stupid advice to Democrats generally and Connecticut voters specifically.

Ned Lamont may be a pencil-necked geek, as Imus claims, but he is the type of candidate that will bring out the Democratic base in an off-year election. That is especially true this year because George W. Bush is even more unpopular than Clinton was when the GOP swept into power.

My advice to Democratic voters this year is "Go left, young man!"

There may be hell to pay in 2008, but for now the only thing that should matter to you is seizing control of Congress. Do that for the first time in a decade and then you can start worrying about swing voters in the suburbs.

While one may wonder why Scarborough is so intent on giving good advice to Democrats, it bears noting that 1) his advice contracits that of every other "well meaning" conservative eager to defend the Democratic Party's good graces, and 2) it does line up nicely with his own experiences in 1994.

If nothing else, food for thought. Though I don't disagree.

Well, partly. I think Dems need to play to their base, I just don't think that means "moving left". That means being more partisan, and it means being an "outsider" foil to the insiders screwing things up in DC.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:01 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  He's posted this (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aexia, OLinda, demkat620, tovan, Elise, sunbro

    on the Huffington Post as well.

    •  A Greek bearing gifts? Hmmmmm (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      demkat620, calderonn
    •  I find this to be a bit disturbing (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Elise, aaraujo, calderonn

      in a Bizarro world kind of way. I suppose he is less of a wingnut than other 'pub pundits, but...still. For so long I have been programmed to think 'dead intern! dead intern!' when I hear the name of Scarborough thats its hard to give him a proper listen.

      Me like Joe Scarborough! Him give good advice! Good Morning!

      •  Scarborough isn't as wingnutty (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lrhoke, Geotpf

        as he used to be. Joe hit the ideological bottom last year during "Schiavo Week." On about day four, after Christopher Hitchens (Must SEE!) and his wife told him he was acting like a lunatic, he seemed to have an awakening that pragmatic politics was more satisfying than pure partisanship.

        •  and.. (0+ / 0-)
          his advice contracits that of every other "well meaning" conservative

          you know when scarborough contracits someone, they stay contracitted.  

          in fact, scarborough himself is walking contracition, even if it seems contracitory to the cw (contracit wisdom).

          skippy the bush kangaroo - the "with" in "filled with hate!"

          by skippy on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:40:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  he's a wingnut bastard (0+ / 0-)

        but in this case, and in the past several months, he appears to be using his role of cassandra to ramp up his credibility after november. being able to say "i told you so" if the GOP craters offers him not only publicity (the coin of the real in talking head-ville) but also credibility to propose whatever the hell he feels like saying on how to fix it after the election.

        jeremiads tend to get attention after things go pear shaped. my sense is that joe is just thinking one step ahead and positioning himself as the politically pure class of '94 sage (never mind why he gave up the congressional job cough lori klausitus cough) who is ready to tell repulicans where they went wrong.

        a rare but profitable ecological niche.

        crimson gates reek with meat and wine/while on the streets, bones of the frozen dead -du fu (712-770)

        by wu ming on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 05:10:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Joe(Scarborough's) big turn around came (9+ / 0-)

      after Katrina...he was brutal on bush throughout that debacle.  He still hasn't forgiven bush for his major fuckups.

      By the way, slightly off topic here...did anyone catch Keith lambasting bush for going on vacation yesterday?  He was fantastic.

      Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

      by darthstar on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:02:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just want to let you all know... (30+ / 0-)

    I'm here in Meriden making last-minute GOTV phone calls. I still need to see if there's Internet access over in the hotel where the party will be.

    P.S. I've heard good news on the absentee ballots from certain places.

    Rock on, people!

    Deny My Freedom
    "Inconvenient truths do not go away just because they are not seen." -Al Gore

    by PsiFighter37 on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:55:13 PM PDT

  •  What do you think he means by 'moving left'? (8+ / 0-)

    What is so wrong with "moving left"?

    Americans agree we're on the WRONG TRACK. That begs the question of what the right track is.

    The right track might include national health insurance or some other such left-wing invention. Or signing on to Kyoto while we're all roasting in the hottest summer  in, well, ..., ever.

    Given a choice between a real Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, Americans will choose the real Republican every time - Harry Truman

    by tiggers thotful spot on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:55:21 PM PDT

    •  Ned Lamont isn't moving left (29+ / 0-)

      Ned Lamont is moving Sane.  He's moving Honest.  He's moving in the direction the people want government to go, to solve the problems of the day.

      He's moving toward his state, and away from the Washington Bubble.  That's the real dichotomy in American politics.  Not Right vs. Left, but Inside vs. Outside.  And it's high time those outside the Bubble got representation in our government.

      -4.50, -5.85 In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. --Orwell

      by Dallasdoc on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:59:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree Lamont is not a leftist (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, ActivistGuy

        I am just saying the ideas that haven't been tried for our country being "on the right track" are the ones that come from the left wing. Part of that bubble you speak of in Washington is their being detached from the reality of no health care for millions, job insecurity for millions, and islands of poverty that when they weren't drowning on televisionl last year are completely ignored, etc. And the policies that are "not left" are the policies that have only been making those very insecurities worse.

        Given a choice between a real Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, Americans will choose the real Republican every time - Harry Truman

        by tiggers thotful spot on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:15:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree with you, tigger (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tiggers thotful spot

          I think that before policies, we have to stand for our values: a more equal society, with rights respected and mutual responsibility honored.

          Policies we all can agree on follow the commitment to a fair chance for all:  Living wage.  Universal health care coverage. Fair trade.  Separation of church and state.  Constitutional rights.  Freedom from discrimination.  Honest government machinery.  Reducing the Federal debt.

          Those who comment that we need to stand for a vision of what America is about have it right.  We ought not be about a laundry list of policies.  We ought be about standing up for all Americans, not just the 1% of us who need the least help.

          -4.50, -5.85 In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. --Orwell

          by Dallasdoc on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:22:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's is a Populist Movement (0+ / 0-)

            Not the old-style left-right polarization. While old-style leftists might include my philosophy, the 'crashing-the-gates' phenomenon is all about populism. The millionaire TeeVee pundits and soggy-bottom print journalists don't understand modern-day populism, because they don't hang out with the unwashed masses.

    •  Need a philosophy (8+ / 0-)

      There is some debate about the role of the "Contract With America", but it is undeniable that those R's like Scarborough who won in 1994 were, for the most part, not just partisans, but had an ideology that voters seemed to identify with--against Washington and elitists, for the little guy, lower taxes, strong defense etc.  

      Kos keeps saying we are not ideological, just partisans.  But one has to be partisan about something.  "The Democratic Party" just isn't enough.  I think that candidates should run consistent with their beliefs, and voice their positions strongly.  Being a partisan isn't just being "not Republican."  We should encourage candidates to be as progressive as they can, consistent with their own beliefs and the territory where they are running.  We should not be afraid of being labelled ideological or progressive.  One can be a pragmatic progressive, after all.  That's what most of us here are.

      IMHO that is what Scarborough is saying.

      "False language, evil in itself, infects the soul with evil." ----Socrates

      by Mimikatz on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:05:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agree Completely (0+ / 0-)

        See post (much) below.

        "What's in the name of lord, that I should fear; To bring my grievance to the public ear?" - The Crisis, January 13, 1777

        by TPaine on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:23:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  just don't use the Move Left line... (0+ / 0-)

        and we could win the tv wars easy...

        Joe is right. To me it sounds like he says "Dems/Libs, get some muchos juevos grandes and don't be afraid to be who you are."

        Just the like the poster prior to me said, the Repubs we're running as the outsiders, the populist politicos that was gonna stick to those elite DC Beltway Dems. And it worked...cept they turned out to really be the inside, Beltway politicians.

        But what so great with Lamont is he really is an outsider. He really is a caninidate that, through this great system of tubes (or as I say officially, the Intubernet), was able to raise money, organize a staff, put out ads, get national exposure etc.

        I will say honestly, I kinda don't like the wait and see feel when it comes to other issues...if someone could be point me to official statements on he thinks of free trade, health care, debt, labor laws, etc. i would appreciate it....

        Polls closed....cross your fingers

    •  Thank you. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tiggers thotful spot, Elise

      The country doesn't want to move left?

      Because this rightist ascendancy is working out so well?

      •  It's depressing to (0+ / 0-)

        see how the right wing message is internalized! People argue against universal health coverage even here not because it's a bad idea but because "it's too far left"... no wonder why this country has been stuck in a rut for so long (long before Bush, really, as some of the diarists who write about inequality have shown...)

        Given a choice between a real Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, Americans will choose the real Republican every time - Harry Truman

        by tiggers thotful spot on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 05:01:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Right on. (6+ / 0-)

    I agree with this completely, although what Joe calls "left", I call a Democrat.

    "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine Pay attention Georgie - 2590+ dead Americans. Jesus Christ, make it stop already.

    by Miss Blue on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:55:24 PM PDT

  •  Why Would Scarborough...? (10+ / 0-)

    He is a commentator.  One of his nonfinancial rewards is proving that he understands the world better than many other people, and therefore can give better advice, proving he is better than people who give worse advice.

  •  Rooting for us (22+ / 0-)

    I think alot of conservatives who are disgusted with the current government incarnation of their beloved ideology are secretly praying that Dems retake congress this year.  

    If you don't understand someone, consider that the problem may not lie with that person, but rather with your own understanding.

    by Aethern on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:55:38 PM PDT

    •  Exactly what I was thinking (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jamfan, demkat620, Elise, calderonn

      Scarborough has been rather vocal on the issue of NSA surveillance in particular.

    •  While Martin Peretz (9+ / 0-)

      (TNR) Wants us to lose.

      "False language, evil in itself, infects the soul with evil." ----Socrates

      by Mimikatz on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:06:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Then they can BLAME us in 2008 (0+ / 0-)

      Currently everything lies squarely in the lap of the Repubs. House, Senate, President.

      If it stays this way, 2008 will rest firmly on THEIR record...and they are skreeeewed for sure.

      Edward R. Murrow:We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it.

      by digital drano on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:14:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  respectfully, who cares? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aethern, elouise

        another two years of this pain is something we can't afford to let lie fallow.

        Hanging back and waiting for them to finish the country off is not an option in my book. Even if joebro is operating with a sly Repub agenda and may be ego-stroking his punditry, he is still correct.

        It says something (not sure what yet) that he's done this, too, when his fairly visible persona will take some hits from other conservatives and right-wing pundits for his posting on, of all places, the Huffington Post and now the Dailykos.

        How we spend our days, of course, is how we spend our lives. - Annie Dillard
        Visit me at exme arden

        by exmearden on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:22:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not a big fan (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          exmearden

          But Joebro has been willing to buck the right wing before.  Remember his tirade about how lousy Bush was during the debates?  It's probably him trying to show he's 'his own guy' or whatever egomanaical bullshit he has going on, but I still do appreciate that he doesn't parrot the GOP line all the time.

          If you don't understand someone, consider that the problem may not lie with that person, but rather with your own understanding.

          by Aethern on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 05:11:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Respect to Joe (7+ / 0-)

    I disagree with him on a lot of things, but you have to respect a man who is open and honest enough to give props to the other side.

  •  Scarborough does have moments of sanity (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hudson, greebs, Elise, CenterLeft

    and while I don't agree with going too far left (because of things like 2008) he's right - there is no need to Liebermanize every candidate.

    # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
    http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

    by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:56:03 PM PDT

    •  Scarborough's a real puzzle (6+ / 0-)

      Yeah, I've definitely noticed in the past that he is at times willing to stray far from party orthodoxy.

      But then, he goes and spoils it with some neanderthal position on an important issue.

      "Animals are my friends--and I don't eat my friends." (G.B. Shaw) Click to read my diaries

      by Hudson on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:57:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I disagree with him... (0+ / 0-)

      On almost every issue but I'll admit that he is a good politician and tactician.

    •  What's 'too far left?' (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tiggers thotful spot, McJulie

      Protecting Social Security? Securing ports? Stopping employers from hiring illegals without pretending we can put 11 million people in jail? Requiring that Paris Hilton pay taxes? Demanding that all American media not be owned by five men? Stopping the ocean level from rising twenty feet and drowning Florida?

      All these wails of "too far left" are fake--the dying cries of Republicans melting after Dorothy dumps water on her. The most progressive Democrats today stand for pretty much the same positions as FDR, the Founding Fathers, and that Lincoln guy, even though he wasn't a Dem.

      •  of course not (0+ / 0-)

        however specific policy positions such as, oh, say, single payer health care, or $12 minimum wage in 5 years or some sort of isolationist foreign policy probably would be.

        not being right wing doesn't mean "too far left"

        but you are wrong if you think there isn't such a thing as "too far left" because there is.

        # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
        http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

        by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:12:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  disagree, Agree with Smallbottle (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Geotpf, HillaryGuy

          On healthcare the U. S. spends 30% to several times more than any other country on health care and gets less for it than most industrialized countries.  On the radio I think I heard 70th in the world.  Single payer health care would save money and be better. My god poor Cuba has better health care and I am not sure they are considered an industrialized country. Their educational system is better and literacy is higher.  They even export doctors all over the world, 17000 in Venezuela alone.

          The only reason to go centrist is because stupid Clinton lost the labor vote with his Free Trade and NAFTA agreements.  Ross Perot got 20% of the vote on a national election and it consisted largely of the labor vote.  The Dems insist on going after the few percent in the middle instead of the large labor vote. They have no sense.

  •  I Agree (4+ / 0-)

    Scarborough seems to be one of the group of "honest conservatives" who aren't ashamed of being conservative that got elected in 1994.  Tom Coburn is probably the most notorious in that group, but there are a few others.  I'm not going to claim that they are always honest, but in general they seem less likely to play politics when assessing the situation, and more likely to just "call 'em as they see 'em".  Some Republicans might agree, but find it politically expedient to say the opposite.  Scarborough probably feels something along the lines that since he has the superior political philosophy, he can play fair in this case.

    •  Not so sure. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geotpf, steelman

      I think Joe is more of an opportunist. He may well hate the non-conservative things that the rethugs in power are doing. But remember, he got out of congress to be a stuffed shirt on TV, and he declined to run for Senate this year. I think it is part his conservatism, and part ego.

      •  Congress (0+ / 0-)

        He got out of Congress because news broke of his affair when his wife left him. Then the woman with whom he was supposed to be having the affair was found dead in his office.

        He had just been re-elected the previous year and Condit was getting the crap beat out of him for his supposed affair who had gone missing. Joe was saving his butt from the same treatment.

        MSNBC was willing to hire him with that baggage, but he didn't leave Congress for TV.

        And, I'm betting he's not running for Senate because he doesn't want the story of his affair and her death as an issue. From everything I've read, her family doesn't think it was an accident, and I bet they'd say so if he ran for Senate.

        •  wait a second (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          davidinmaine

          You're assuming facts not in evidence.

          There is no evidence that Joe was having an affair with the intern who died.  Furthermore, The Miami Herald recently interviewed the family and they accept the medical examiner's accidental death ruling.

          There are a lot of really evil in politics, I just don't think Joe Scarborough is one of them.

      •  Sure (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HillaryGuy

        One has to have a bit of an ego to be on TV (or to run for Congress, for that matter).  Doesn't mean he doesn't want a Dem House win, or that his points are incorrect, though.

    •  Such as (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elouise

      Peter Fitzgerald (R-IL), who was so disgusted that the Gingrich Congress was focused more on petty revenge against Democrats than on conservative ideas, that he retired after a single term.

      I'm not surprised at all that guys like Scarborough look at today's Republicans and wonder what the heck became of their revolution.

  •  Well (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boy asunder, demkat620

    The one issue that I take with Scarborough's argument is that their base is larger than the Democrats. There are more self-identified conservatives than liberals in this country. So they are less dependent on swing voters.

    •  very true (0+ / 0-)

      and thus being too far left would be dumb.  But he is also attacking the idea that liberal candidates will hurt moderate ones, which isn't really true anyway

      # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
      http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

      by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:57:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Their base is larger now, but in '94 it wasn't (0+ / 0-)

      that huge.  The GOP really pulled from our side in '94 because they were all over it and they were passionate.

    •  debatable (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annan, lofistew, Elise

      Look at the issues. Voters don't self-identify as liberal, but they really are on so many issues like health care and the minimum wage, just to name two that have come up recently.

      •  maybe on health care (0+ / 0-)

        most people want universal health care, but not necessarily single payer healthcare, which is more of the liberal position.

        with minimum wage - well, i guess it depends how much you're talking.  liberals probably wouldn't mind if it were $12. i doubt most self-identified moderates would go for it being that high, going up from $5.15 unless it was over like, 8 to 10 years

        # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
        http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

        by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:07:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Connect the dots? (0+ / 0-)

        It's interesting that recent polls show the national breakdown in political self-identication goes something like: 20% Liberal, 40% Independent/Moderate, 40% Conservative.

        Yet, when you see polls about specific issues, the Lib/Dem positions are usually closer to what people want.

        So the question is: can the Democrats connect the dots well enough to make it cool to be a Liberal again? Is it possible to cut though all bullshit that the Repubs and the current political Establishment will inevitably sling around from here on out?

        I don't know. A Lamont victory tonight would sure give me some hope though.

    •  More Right Base Than Left (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annan, Elise

      Isn't this because the Left has allowed the Right to either Coop or Demonize the issues of the Democratic party?  If someone could truly articulate the Left's position on Labor, on Health Care, on Pre-emptive War -- on a myriad of subjects -- wouldn't we find that our base is larger than the MSM has propagandized?

    •  I think the self-identification is unreliable. (0+ / 0-)

      I self-id as a liberal, but I vote for moderate Dems all the time...

      •  but is the reverse true? (0+ / 0-)

        liberals may vote for moderates? but will a moderate vote for a liberal - especially if there is a moderate candidate running?

        # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
        http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

        by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:13:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I question that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cap and gown, McJulie

      Because the word liberal has been demonized so much, many people who are really liberal identify as "moderate".  And because it has been considered cool to be conservative, some who identify as "conservative" are really moderate or even liberal on some issues.

      But the Democratic base this year aren't liberals.  They are those who "strongly disapprove" of W, which is at least 40-45% in every poll in the last year.    

      The right-wing is doing a real dumb thing by calling those who disagree with W as liberals.  By doing so, they are in the process of making the word liberal respectable again.

      •  Heh (0+ / 0-)

        The right-wing is doing a real dumb thing by calling those who disagree with W as liberals.  By doing so, they are in the process of making the word liberal respectable again.

        You might be onto something there.

        The only reason the tighty righties ever succesfully demonized the word "liberal" in the first place was because prominent dems didn't fight back at all. They just rolled over and waved their little paws in the air and let Gingrich's Raiders and the Barking Mad Radio Pundits seize complete control of the political narrative.

  •  Hmmm (0+ / 0-)

    I smell jujitsu (or is that paranoia?).

    Or, at the very least, someone needs a spell checker. Do they have Scoop in Scarborough Country?

  •  Here's one *nobody's* thought of: (13+ / 0-)

    Voters will respect Democrats who have a Spine and stand up to the likes of the NeoCons, Big Oil, Big Pharma, and Hate Radio Whackos, to name a few!

    What a concept!

    Not that anybody here has considered or written on it . . .

    BenGoshi
    _________________________________________________

    We're working on many levels here. Ken Kesey

    by BenGoshi on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:56:52 PM PDT

    •  it's time we benefit (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Elise

      from the "i may not agree with everything they say, but at least I know where they stand."

      There are all kinds of intangible benefits to having a clear policy. If Lamont helps make that conventional wisdom in dem-land, maybe the wave isn't so far fetched.

      All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

      by SeanF on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:03:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  admf (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Elise

      Precisely.

      Sufficient spine to somehow turn back the smoke and mirrors that has reduced Liberal to token without meaning.  Or rather a token that means in the same fashion as "Bogey Man."

      That cannot be done while apologizing.

  •  Joe (5+ / 0-)
    Joe Scarborough seemed about the fairest of all the TV news pundits during the Democratic National Convention in 2004 which surprised the heck out of me at the time.

    We can but try. Sherlock Holmes.

    by Carnacki on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:57:06 PM PDT

  •  I like Joe Scarborough (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pandoras Box, CenterLeft

    I disagree with him on just about every issue, but I like a conservative that can make his point without demonizing you.

    He's got some skeletons though.

  •  Kos, Scarborough may be playing with you... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    demkat620, calderonn

    cause what nobody seems to get is that this is NOT about moving LEFT as in Socialist. This is about the fundamentals: privacy, honesty, and freedom. These are more libertarian (RIGHT?) than left. So perhaps the real advise is go RIGHT, but avoid the neo-con pits?

    •  i think in terms of this discussion (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Alexander, demkat620, Elise

      left has become a relative football term, just meaning left of where we're at. It's our job to show that it isn't really left at all, it's simply sane. Then we start redefining the game, and the wackos become radical again. That's exactly what republicans did.

      So I don't fault Scarborough for using the term "left." It's just a way to define strategic maneuvering.

      All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

      by SeanF on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:06:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Scarborough (10+ / 0-)

    I have this feeling in my gut that, for some reason, he wants to see his party lose Congress.

    You're one microscopic cog in his catastrophic plan designed and directed by his red right hand

    by RandyMI on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:58:01 PM PDT

    •  Scarborough is terrified (5+ / 0-)

      and angry with this administration. He admitted that what Clinton was accused of isn't even close to the sins of Bush. Scarborough also did a poll where 1/3 of Repubs want dems to take control of Congress.

      He's a puzzle. One minute he says something stupid the next minute he's giving honest praise to democrats.

      In many ways that's old school Repub.

    •  He told me as much a year and a half ago (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beowulf, Jake Nelson, Geotpf

      I met him in Charleston South Carolina at a conference at which he was one of the 3 key note speakers.  I went up to him afterwards and asked him about some of his comments, and he flat out told me he thinks its better for the country to have a divided government, when one party doesn't control everything.

      I liked him on a personal level very much, very personable guy.  Don't agree with him on everything, but he's one of those types of Republicans you could have an honest discussion with.  

  •  I respect his political analysis (14+ / 0-)

    I disagree with him on the issues.

    "To any sheriff or peace officer of the State of Texas; Greetings: You are hereby commanded to arrest: Thomas Dale Delay" -Warrant for Tom Delay

    by who threw da cat on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:58:23 PM PDT

  •  Scarborough may have skeletons and a (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    demkat620

    dead hot chick in his closet/office, but he does have the ability to speak rationally when he wants to...thanks for sharing.

    Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:58:25 PM PDT

    •  Katrina (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      calderonn, darthstar

      radicalized Joe in alot of ways.  He was completely disgusted with every level of government including Haley Barbour, Bush and Chertoff.

      this ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin' around!

      by demkat620 on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:01:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly...just said something to the same effect (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        demkat620

        above in another sub-post...that was a turning point for Joe Scarborough.

        Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

        by darthstar on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:03:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Katrina Did it for Many (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Alexander, McJulie, demkat620

        I work in a fairly "conservative" environment, and I can tell you that Katrina broke the back of more than just a few. They found it totally implausible that Shrub could be so incompetent.

        I (gently) reminded them that six years ago I said something like, "Look. Forget politics. The guy's record is one failure after another. His business competitors considered him a laughing stock. He has, what I call, the Midas touch: everything he touches turns to mufflers."

        Sigh. My wife and I are 60ish. We are afraid that this country may not recover from 8 years of this president. All I can hope for is that his last two years are under the thumb (and magnifying glass) of a Democratic Congress.

        •  I have been tempted (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pandoras Box

          to give up hope as well.

          I am 42 and have a 6 yo son.  I will FIGHT for this country, and FIGHT for this world.

          We WILL recover from Bush, just like we recovered from the robber barons at the turn of the 20th century and the depression they instigated/enabled.

          We shall overcome.

          -6.5, -7.59. If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

          by DrWolfy on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:23:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Look what you made me do! (0+ / 0-)

          the Midas touch: everything he touches turns to mufflers.

          I just snorted coffee all over my keyboard.

  •  Playing to Base (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alexander, Jake Nelson, demkat620

    What is truly compelling is having a point of view.  Standing for something defineable, distinguishable.  It is a SYMPTOM of having a radical point of view that it plays to the "base" -- that is, the hard core idealogues of both parties.

    What has been missing in the Democratic party is precisely the willingness to BE liberal, to espouse, loudly, liberal ideologies and policies.

    I think Kerry would have done better if he had been more proud of his liberal record, his anti-war rhetoric.  Instead he, like Gore before him, was afraid of alienating the middle.

    To hell with the middle.  It is defined by how far you push the edges.

    •  'willingness to BE liberal' (0+ / 0-)

      In the late '70s, liberalism really started to fade as liberals stopped trying to do and spent all their time preventing others from doing.

      Many became the original concern trolls, holding back Americans from any action to correct the serious problems of the time, but without proposing any new, practical solutions of their own. Liberalism became a skinny, balding man in a turtleneck, sitting on a talk-show couch and starting every sentence with "Ummm.."

      Now, finally, for the first time in a long time, liberals and progressives are increasingly free of the concern trolls (with occassional rearguard actions by the sillier of the PC police), and willing to stand up and become men and women of action again. That's what people have been waiting for.

    •  Great point Falstaff (0+ / 0-)

      I remember talking to a Green Party guy and telling him about Kerry's landmark takedown of BCCI.

      The guy looked at me and said "why doesn't he talk about that?" I wish I knew.

      In a lot of ways, Kerry ran from himself.  

  •  Hmm (7+ / 0-)

    when did Joe become hypmotized by our overlord Kos?  Is the power of the metaleft expanding?

    Every time conservatives try to warn us what not to do, don't listen.  Scarborough is exactly right.  Stop listening to the Washington air heads and run from the heart.  You'll win.

    this ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin' around!

    by demkat620 on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:59:02 PM PDT

  •  Joe's been dissing (5+ / 0-)

    the current ins a lot lately.

    Not that he has changed his spots, but more like he was a product of a very motivated, very sincere movement in 1994, and some of the idealism stills sticks to him now and again.

    They were wrong, and most of them sold out in a big hurry, but they were the young Turks for a brief moment there, and that must seem like pretty heady times viewed theough the fog of distant memory.

    30 yrs, and you haven't learned the 1st thing about politics.Sad.--RonK Seattle http://www.mehart.blogspot.com/ So, Okay, I Write

    by IsraelHand on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:59:25 PM PDT

  •  'Even more unpopular'? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Smallbottle, Elise, calderonn, donnas, elouise

    I can't believe we still have to read/listen to this crap.

    Wasn't Clinton's approval rating in the 70s or something DURING the impeachment hearings?

    Wasn't he re-elected in a landslide? (With no Ohio and no rigging?)

    Even this remarkably cogent and reality-based Republican seems to be living in a fantasy land in which Clinton was unpopular. Clinton CONSISTENTLY TOPS lists of most popular presidents (While Bush II CONSISTENTLY TOPS lists of most reviled presidents).

    It's like Scarborough's saying "The Bay City Rollers were even more unpopular than The Beatles."

    "Our long national nightmare is over. Our constitution works. Our great republic is a government of laws and not of men." --Gerald Ford, August 9, 1974

    by JohnReed on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 03:59:27 PM PDT

  •  Weird (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise

     It is against my religion to take advice from a Republican about what's best for the Democratic Party, and that applies even if he tells me what I happen to believe myself.

     Still, it's interesting at least. Wonder what's HIS dog in this hunt.

    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:00:05 PM PDT

  •  opposing Iraq-War is not 'Left' (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alexander, Elise

    It's called having a brain.

  •  So the sky isn't falling Chicken Little (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise

    The shrill commentary of the pundits and beltway experts will need to be swept aside for a reasoned discussion of what is really transpiring.

    That was a good start.

  •  Scarborough (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jake Nelson, Diggla, BlueGoo, Elise, elouise

    the Lieberman of the Right! He's a Daily Kos Republican to Joe's Fox News Democrat!

    Something's happening here today -- a show of strength with your boys' brigade. Paul Weller

    by jamfan on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:01:25 PM PDT

    •  That is about right on the mark..... (0+ / 0-)

      ...only thing is though, Joe Scarborough does have some common sense...sometimes he is even right on. But just about the time you are about to be like "Eh you know...I really dont mind the guy...he is conservative but one I would probaly get along with" he says some really stupid shit that sets off your ire, then you change the channel and dont give him a chance again for awhile. He is certianly not the worst pundant out there.

      What does the billboard say? "Come and play, come and play....forget about the movement"

      by Diggla on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:07:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tell them to define the CENTER (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise

    CENTER--what the majority of Americans believe

    ergo, Netroots are the center

    Stop Corporate Influence; buy DEMOCRACY BONDS!!! http://www.democrats.org/democracybonds.html

    by timber on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:02:11 PM PDT

  •  our base is not the same (0+ / 0-)

    just because Karl Rove's strategy of energizing the republican base has worked, and first saw its potential in 94 when the Republcans swept into power, does NOT mean that it will work for democrats in 2006.  Im sorry, but the Republican base of Christian Conservative God-Gays-Guns voters is larger than the liberal base.  

    •  Its annoying though... (0+ / 0-)

      ...because economicaly they should be on our side....but the conservatives have played on EVERY SINGLE ONE of their shallow fears, and have locked them in. Those people by and large have no business voting for R's

      What does the billboard say? "Come and play, come and play....forget about the movement"

      by Diggla on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:09:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hard, cold reality for 2008 --- McCain unbeatable (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Smallbottle

    A poll of New York voters out today showed the following: both McCain and Giuliani beat Hillary and Gore head-to-head in Blue New York.

    Those are sick numbers.

    So win now. Win Connecticut. Win in November. Do everything you can to blunt the McCain (or Rudy) administration at every turn.

    Losing in New York?!

    And if you saw Leno last night -- McCain the hero -- crowd cheering, Leno sucking up calling him "The next President of the United States" and some schmuck white-boy actor telling McCain "Please run -- I'll vote for you."

    2008 will be a nightmare. Win now and win big where we can. If after all that Republicans have done they're top 2 can beat Hillary and Gore in NEW YORK STATE --- we're more f***ed than I thought.

    •  well yeah....2 years ahead (0+ / 0-)

      polls in, like, 1998 I think also had Bush well ahead of Gore (and Gore won the popular vote).

      However, I'd like to see either McCain or Guiliani getting through the republican primaries. good luck with that.

      # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
      http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

      by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:03:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  who's going to stop them? Allen? Romney? Come on. (0+ / 0-)

        It is 2 years out but those are terrifying numbers.

        New York.

        Was Bush ahead of Kerry in Massachusetts at any point?

        Bush ahead of Gore in NEW YORK???? Really?

        •  Allen definitely could (0+ / 0-)

          if he wins his senate seat.

          I mean, the republican base hates McCain - despises him. it'd be like Hilleary running to be president of Daily Kos.

          And Guiliani is pro-gay rights and pro-choice.  and he's gonna get nominated by the religious right?  yeah right.  they'll go for brownback before him.

          # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
          http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

          by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:09:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wishful...the GOP has been pragmatic in the past. (0+ / 0-)

            They've nominate Doles and Bush Sr.'s McCain and Rudy would be their strongest candidates and they're all about power.

            I can't see either/both losing out.

            We're in for an uphill slog. The media is in love with those two. And they hate Gore and don't take Edwards seriously and are sick of the Clintons.

            •  not unless they change soon (0+ / 0-)

              they certainly haven't been acting pragmatic recently.  they're clearly been sucking up to the religious right to the maximum extent, and if they really do control the party now, and believe, as they certainly seem to at the moment, that they are in control, no, they wont be pragmatic in 2008.

              Part of it is that, Bush Sr. was Vice President, so the nomination was his.  with Dole it was "his time"

              but the religious right supported non-wingnut candidates because they had to to win.  they knew that a wingnut wouldn't win in 88 or 92 or 96.  But do they believe that now?

              # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
              http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

              by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:17:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I wouldn't go too far to say.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            joemcginnissjr

            the right-wing base hates McCain. That is an overplayed statement. He's not completely beloved by the base, but he does have ALOT of supporters that are right-wing.

            Whoever started the "McCain won't be able to win the primary", thing is working for some candidate that probably won't win the GOP primary.

            •  exactly -- they're not going to piss it away (0+ / 0-)

              they've had their run with rightwing nuts and now -- to win a general -- especially if they lose congress in November -- you can be damn sure they're going to fall in line.

              McCain the pol will cut a deal with (Jeb or Condi or some other wingnut) and roll -- keeping the Bushies in the game and capitalizing on his image as a "maverick".

              •  well put... (0+ / 0-)

                Although I don't see McCain bringing Jeb or Condi into the picture. '08 is going to be completely fresh blood (compared to the Bush 43 and the old gang from Bush 41, etc). But you are right, don't be surprised to see a George Allen or other "right-winger" that can't really be too tied to Bush picked as the veep candidate.

                •  right on...and that's f**ing scary... (0+ / 0-)

                  Hoping that McCain loses his swagger -- looks old -- looks less special and more political.

                  And if he's up against a young, sunny optimist, a real generational contrast, there's a shot.

                  But I just can't get over those NEW YORK numbers.

                  As bad as things are in this country -- as much as the GOP has f***ed this world up -- and NEW YORK supports more of the same?!

                  •  Wait, what #s? (0+ / 0-)

                    I haven't seen the NY #s?

                    •  Read and weep or freak (0+ / 0-)

                      Poll: Giuliani Tops Sen. Clinton for '08

                      By MARC HUMBERT
                      The Associated Press
                      Monday, August 7, 2006; 10:14 PM

                      ALBANY, N.Y. -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is maintaining big leads over potential Republican re-election opponents but would not fare as well among New York voters if she were to face former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani in a 2008 presidential race, pollsters reported Monday.

                      The poll, by Siena College's Research Institute, found the Republican Giuliani leading the former first lady 48 percent to 42 percent among registered voters asked about a hypothetical 2008 presidential matchup. The poll has a sampling error margin of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

                      In this Wednesday, Jan. 25, 2006 file photo, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., addresses the The United States Conference of Mayors in Washington. (AP Photo/Haraz N. Ghanbar, filei) (Haraz N. Ghanbari - AP)

                         

                      Pipes stretch across an area that was affected by a 270,000-gallon oil leak in March. The leak occurred on Alaska's North Slope, near Prudhoe Bay. (Al Grillo -- AP)

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                      In another possible 2008 matchup, Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona was favored by 46 percent of New York voters, compared to 42 percent for Democrat Clinton.

                      Other recent New York polls have found similar results.

                      The relatively strong showing by Giuliani and McCain against Clinton "will certainly put pressure on New York's junior senator to try and run up a big victory in her re-election battle this fall," said Steven Greenberg, a spokesman for Siena's polling operation.

                      The poll found 57 percent of New York voters saying they would vote in November to re-elect Clinton to the Senate and 38 percent saying they would prefer someone else, unchanged from a June poll by the Albany-area research institute.

                      Also unchanged from earlier Siena polls were Clinton's large leads over potential GOP opponents: 58 to 32 percent against former Yonkers Mayor John Spencer and 58 to 28 percent ahead of Reagan-era Pentagon official Kathleen Troia "KT" McFarland.

                      Recent polls have shown Spencer with a slight edge over McFarland for the state's Sept. 12 primary.

                      Siena's telephone poll of 623 registered voters was conducted July 31 to Thursday.

                      •  sorry for the mess...Gore was also in there and (0+ / 0-)

                        fared slightly better but lost to both Rudy and McCain among NY voters

                        •  That's horrible (0+ / 0-)

                          However, I don't think Guilliani can win the south in the primaries, although I have him as the most likely pick for VP.

                          McCain will be tough to beat nationwide.

                        •  WOW (0+ / 0-)

                          didn't know that. It is still a long way away, though and to be honest, I don't see Hilary winning the Dems primary. She will have the advantage with money and name recognition, but I the dems will wise up and realize that she probably wouldn't win a national election. What state could she carry that John Kerry didn't carry in '04? Granted - it will be 4 years time in between, but the Dems could be alot better off going with someone like Mark Warner or some other lesser known who picks up momemtum on the national stage in like a year or so - probably someone most folks haven't heard of.

                          •  It's all about McCain and Rudy having the Hero (0+ / 0-)

                            Image ... and the fact that it works in a blue state like NY is alarming.

                            It is far out and each will dip and take hits and look bad here and there...and maybe even tank or not run at all.

                            But damn -- if ever there was a case to be made for nominating the strongest genereal election option it is these numbers.

                            Sorry Feingold. This is not the time.

        •  Huckabee (0+ / 0-)

          Is the candidate that scares the hell out of me.  The rabid base loves him and he's got that smooth charm made popular by the other famous politician from Hope.

          •  good call... but beatable... in New York and else (0+ / 0-)

            where.... the fact is McCain is a celebrity first -- hero second --- leader third. Rudy has the same Mainstream Media reputation.

            That's what matters in a general election.

            Be afraid, people. Those New York numbers are scary.

            •  who gives a crap (0+ / 0-)

              what their reputation is in the general if they can't even get through their own primary.

              # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
              http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

              by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:20:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  McCain won NH in 2000 ... don't get caught up in (0+ / 0-)

                primary logic -- they're awful but they win elections and it takes nominating candidates who can win to do that so despite their sickening loathsome reputations -- they do end up winning.

                •  and then lost pretty much all the others (0+ / 0-)

                  # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
                  http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

                  by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:30:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  But they nominated a winner (0+ / 0-)
                    •  here (0+ / 0-)

                      If the election were held today, Candidate X would score 18 points higher in a head-to-head race, 57-39 percent.

                      oh the horror! Candidate X is going to win in a landslide! we're doomed.

                      until you see this is a Bush vs. Gore poll from October 1998 where Bush is the one ahead by 18 points. Obviously that 18 point lead didn't hold

                      # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
                      http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

                      by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:33:47 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I was alarmed at the fact that it was NEW YORK... (0+ / 0-)

                        that's like ... unthinkable. A Dem losing New York?

                        And so much for Hillary having homestate advantage.

                        Really -- could you imagine McCain trailing anyone in Arizona?

                        That's what seems relevant about those numbers.

                        Of course it's a long way out -- but why would McCain be more popular in NEW YORK than two "leading" Dems?

                        Not good.

                        •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

                          but why would McCain be more popular in NEW YORK than two "leading" Dems?

                          because its still two years away and people haven't seen how much of a douche mccain has become since 2000? and people aren't particularly fond of Hillary?

                          # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
                          http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

                          by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:37:55 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  He beats Gore too --- in New York...a very blue (0+ / 0-)

                            state -- come on -- admit it -- it's scary.

                          •  if its January 2008 (0+ / 0-)

                            and the poll says the same thing, then i'll agree is scary. a poll on a possible presidential matchup with people who may not win their primary or even run - to say nothing about it being 2 years off - is enough for me to ignore it.

                            # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
                            http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

                            by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:42:55 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Like JoeMentum ignored those pesky Lamont numbers (0+ / 0-)
                          •  Lieberman is losing (0+ / 0-)

                            because he lost touch and didn't know what people in Connecticut wanted anymore, not because he "didn't pay attention."

                            the numbers also had mccain and guilani up by about 3 to 4 points - probably well within the margin of error.

                            and neither were over 50, and both Clinton and Gore were over 40.  and, as I said, this is two years out.

                            # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
                            http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

                            by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:48:18 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  or not because (0+ / 0-)

                            he didn't pay attention to Lamont.

                            also, i'm not sure what you want dems to do about it other than run around in circles screaming that it's hopeless.  there isn't much one can do about a poll for an election more than 2 years away

                            # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
                            http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

                            by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:49:58 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Agreed -- but it's NEW YORK...that's like Bush (0+ / 0-)

                            winning Hollywood or Dean winning Mississippi.

                            I just don't like the sleepiness some have when it comes to the McCain/Rudy threat.

                            It's real and it ain't going away.

    •  Leno had me gagging. (0+ / 0-)

      Every time you think it's safe to come out... you get it between the eyes.

      Are Leno and McCain on the same meds?

    •  McCain won't win a primary. (0+ / 0-)

      He's polling quite low on favorability.

      Giuliani is polling well...but I don't believe he'll EVER win a Repug primary being pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. AND...if he flips on those positions, we brand him a flip-flopping jackass and he becomes beatable because he's dishonest.

      Hillary will NOT win a Dem primary. Ever.

    •  But, I don't believe Hillary or Gore (0+ / 0-)

      will get the nod.

      The Democrats (I hope) are smarter than that.

      Hillary and Gore have too many "rich targets" for the right.  

      Edwards, Clark, Warner, etc.  These are the ones to carry the ball for us.

      Plus, Hillary is a Goldwater conservative.  IF we are bitching about RepubLite getting us into trouble, she is a horrid choice.

      -6.5, -7.59. If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

      by DrWolfy on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:18:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  But see (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Elise

      everything changes if our nominee isn't Hillary or Gore. Rudy might beat Warner in New York too but Republicans running a Northeastern social-liberal opens up a ton of fucking states to us.

      It took them 30 years- don't give up hope after 3

      by js noble on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:20:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Disagree...a 'moderate' repub isn't going to help (0+ / 0-)

        Dems in the south or midwest.

        Those turned off by Rudy's "moderation" will either stay home or vote but not work for him.

        But that's not likely to compensate for the indy's and conserv. Dems who may say "He's tough and not as offensive as Bush/Cheney".

        We have to hope and work to offset the McCain/Rudy Hero-Worship effect if we're to have any hope.

        Who can do that?

        Edwards/Clark? Maybe.

        Gore/Obama? Possibly.

        Obama/Clark ..... Hell, yeah.

    •  Hillary will not run (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geotpf

      Just my opinion.  One scenario is Lamont victory helps her move left.  A lot easier to move from left to right.

      "We forfeit three-fourths of ourselves in order to be like other people." Arthur Schopenhauer

      by givemhellHarryR on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:26:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Absolutely dead on (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joemcginnissjr

      Democrats need to be gunning for McCain now. In Congress, make him vote on things the Right will hate. And make sure the rest of America knows who's ass he's been kissing. The time to do this is now, or maybe right after November. Not in primary season. Raise his unfavorability sky high.

      You wouldn't believe how popular McCain is among liberals in Massachusetts. I told one very liberal woman to look at his voting record. She said she'd never heard he wasn't a moderate.

    •  That's because the public doesn't know McCain (0+ / 0-)

      yet

      They will know more by the time 2007 rolls around including all his dirt.

      As my Senator, I will make sure to have a hand in his demise. That piece of crap has dug this state into a shithole. He and Kyl.

  •  He's right (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Geotpf

    And he's right about going left.

    I remember when the MSM all poo-poohed Ronald Reagan as being too far right.  And that Newt Gingrich and co would have to moderate their positions when in power.  When Reagan and Gingrich didn't, and still held on to power, the MSM shut up.  Or move the goal posts so far right that they fell off the edge of the political spectrum.

    The lesson is ignore the MSM and beltway insiders.  Stick to your guns and fight for your principles.  That's the way to win, and the way to shut up the MSM naysayers.

    The Republicans. The party of fear and smear.

    by Paleo on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:02:47 PM PDT

  •  Scarborough is getting hammered from the right (5+ / 0-)

    crooks and liars

    He's looking for some buddies.

  •  at least ONE Joe has seen the light (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise

    and the logic of whats happening in CT

    to bad for JOE Lieberman its JOE Scarborough who got the point of us progressives and Ned's excellent Primary Adventure.

    "if all the world's a stage, who is sitting in the audience?"

    by KnotIookin on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:03:02 PM PDT

  •  it's not left, it's accountability (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    demkat620, Elise, dewey of the desert

    There is an idea floatng around here (Occam's diary) and others that what is really happening here is accountability.

    I think this is a great frame.  Look at our infrastructure.  The Boston tunnel closed at the cost of millions of dollars, due to coziness between the builders and the regulators.  The BP pipeline shut down due to lack of maintence in Alaska.  

    Blackouts in Queens that last for a week, and possible blackouts in California, and again-- no accountability.  

    All the time we have a government just begging to give money to the corrupt pals via earmarks, to the shady world of private contractors doing the job the army used to do.

    And to top it all, Iraq and more than 2600 fine Americans dead, and untold numbers of Iraqi's.

    It is not left.  It is simply accountability.  If you can't govern for the common good, you're fired!!!

    "Ah, what an age it is when to speak of trees is almost a crime for it is a kind of silence about injustice" (Brecht)

    by tsackton on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:04:08 PM PDT

  •  Kids, remember, that the GOP in 1993 was BONED (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shockwave, Geotpf, demkat620

    In 1993 the GOP was totally boned. They had been out of power in Congress for over 50 years, Clinton was elected, and they were SCREWED, BONED and overall dead in the water..

    They took over in 1994 and a lot of good Demcorats were wiped out. Remember Speaker Foley? Oh and that was the year a jerkoff named Santorum got elected.

    I hate to say it but Mr. S. has a real point . Once the D's are in some sort of power THEN its' time to think bigger. But for now this playing the DLC game hasn't won a frakkiin' thing.

    G

  •  The Insanity Of Moving Right (5+ / 0-)

    Want to know what this Republican-lite, centrist, offend-no-voter bullshit has gotten our party?

    After the election of 1992, Democrats had the White House. We no longer do.

    After the election of 1992, Democrats had 258 members in the House of Representatives. We now have 201.

    After the election of 1992, Democrats had 57 members in the Senate. We now have 44.

    Enough of this crap. Move left. Energize our base. Fight for what we believe in and never say we're sorry. Highlight the GOP's record of corruption and incompetence. And convince the 45 percent of voting-age Americans who didn't vote in 2004 that they should be on our team -- and that together we'll fix this mess.

    In short, stop listening to Bob Shrum. And start listening to the people.

    The Republican Party: Keeping America Fact-Free Since 2001

    by IndyScott on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:04:17 PM PDT

  •  I like the part where he calls himself a (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SeanF, Jake Nelson, demkat620, calderonn

    "right-wing, knuckle-dragging, spear-carrying conservative barbarian..."

    I've been keeping an eye on Scarborough...and I can't decide if he's attempting to play to the left in order to boost his ratings? Or whether he really believes that the Right has just gone to far so he's moved out of the "knuckle-dragging" part of the party and into the center himself?

    I dunno. It's strange.

  •  Why can't he even (0+ / 0-)

    spell the name of a fellow-traveller fellow misguided creep properly?  It's Schlafly.

  •  Hmmm Scarborough ??!! (0+ / 0-)

    The problem with the Dem party is that it has not been especially creative in either its policy or political approach.  The party needs to start talking to people about the problems and concerns they face today not list off a bunch of interest group policy positions.  

    This party needs to think out of the box and not keep re-running the same old tired campaign on the same old tired issues.  I'll scream if we run another campaign on Social Security and Medicare!!!  

    I think we are starting to see it with some of the new candidates like Tester and Lamont but we still have a ways to go.

  •  I think rather than (0+ / 0-)

    "Go Left", I think it is more a matter of energizing the base,not so much much with ideoligy,but with relevance. Bringing people back in into the party has never had a more opportune situation,at least in recent memory. There is now,more than in a long time,fertile ground to encourage participatory democracy. This,more than anything,will answer Scarboroughs question about '08. the republicans can face a strong,committed party in '08,not one beholden to the ideoligical constraints that some owuld like to see.

    it tastes like burning...

    by eastvan on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:05:33 PM PDT

  •  Scarborough strikes me as an honest commentator (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Detlef

    I disagree with him but he is not in the same league as Hannity, O'Reilly or even Tucker Carlson.

    The funny thing is that he thinks Lamont is "left".
    If anything, Lieberman is to the left of Lamont in many issues.  Being against the war is not "left" in my book.  How do you explain a Chuck Hagel or a Pat Buchanan?

    Lamont is a Democrat who is smart enough to oppose the disastrous Bush foreign policies.

    Left?

    What passes for left in the minds of right wing commentators nowadays would have been considered center just a decade ago.

    The neo-cons, theo-cons and plain vanilla fascists that populate the Republican party have moved it so far to the right that a Lamont is practically a "commie pinko" in their little minds.

    By the way, today I proudly accept being called a liberal or a leftist by these fools.  History will prove we were the ones with common sense, not them.

    Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth. -1.75 -7.23

    by Shockwave on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:05:37 PM PDT

    •  He Seems to Have Changed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shockwave, Geotpf

      I saw his program the other day and could actually agree with some of his points. And I didn't feel the need to go take a shower after listening to him. He is not a liberal, but he is not a neo-con that drinks the kool-aid.

      Democrats want better government, government that serves real people and not just those with power and influence. Nevada Appeal, Carson City NV

      by Tuba Les on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:19:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Left = Peace? (0+ / 0-)

    Left = concern for a country that is on a downhill slide? If that's left, start turning the wheel!

    Hot enough for ya?

    by kitebro on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:05:44 PM PDT

  •  I really respect Scarborough for his reporting in (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Geotpf, demkat620

    the aftermath of Katrina. He was one of the early ones to SAY something and DO something with regard to the inept, negligent response of the federal government to the hmanitarian crisis along the Gulf.

    I may disagree with his politics, but I applaud his humanity in the hours when he and his wife personally brought in supplies to Mississipians had no food and water.

    SCARBOROUGH: Now I’ve spent the past six months kicking the President squarely in the pants for his terrible reaction to Katrina. I suggest to my peers in the press breathe into a paper bag and take notes from one who was in the hurricane zone the day it hit and who sat through too many FEMA briefings the day before hurricanes who were about to slam into my hometown. And as one who’s been there and done that, two things are painfully clear from these tapes. First — Homeland Security Director Chertoff was out to lunch, literally. And two, former FEMA director and current goat Michael Brown was deadly accurate in his predictions. So these Bush tapes won’t hurt Bush so much as they will prove that Brown did a heckuva job, at least in predicting the aftermath of Katrina. So, my question tonight, why wasn’t Washington listening to Brownie? And why are we just now hearing tapes they told us no longer existed?

    Edward R. Murrow:We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it.

    by digital drano on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:06:31 PM PDT

  •  he may be a republican (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tiggers thotful spot

    but he speaks truth here.

    Move this party to the left!

    Andre Araujo for Cranston School Committee, Andre For Schools

    by aaraujo on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:06:46 PM PDT

  •  Please, not more partisan, (0+ / 0-)

    but going after the-screw-ups-perps is a good thing!

    Then, what are you going to do when you have control of Congress!  Huh, huh, huh?

    "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul. One brave deed is worth a thousand books." Edward Abbey

    by Maty on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:07:09 PM PDT

    •  If you have to ask what we'd do (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Distaste for Dissent

      with control of Congress...it's clear you haven't been reading this blog.

      Gee...I don't know WHAT we'd do?!

      Investigate Bush's illegal crap.
      Stop right wing judges from being nominated and voted through.
      Get EVERY American Health Care.
      Protect Social Security and Net Neutrality.
      Increase the Minimum wage.
      Bring our troops home from Iraq. Help actually stabilize Afghanistan.
      Cap CO2 emissions...
      Research alternative energy so we can DO something about global warming and high gas prices!
      etc.

      I could go on...but you could read the blog on a daily basis and find out for yourself.

      •  No, I haven't been reading your blog. (0+ / 0-)

        Maybe you could organize it a bit better, so people who care can get to the real issues facing this country as you so articulately listed.

        It's amazing to me how sarcasm gets a reaction from you kids, when nothing else does.

        Right now I read this blog for the humor!

        "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul. One brave deed is worth a thousand books." Edward Abbey

        by Maty on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:26:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, it actually IS organized (0+ / 0-)

          You can pick a topic by using a tag and then you can read up on it.

          So, for instance, you can click on thealternative energy tag...and you'll be able to find a diary, third one down the page, titled "Richardson: "We are Democrats and we stand for diplomacy..."".

          Take your condescending "kids" crap somewhere else. You're the one that doesn't fucking know what you're talking about...and last I checked, "kids" were the one that were taken to school to learn...so why not try taking a trip to learn something...or a flying leap...

          •  I think I'll take a flying leap! Thanks (0+ / 0-)

            I'm working very hard at my blog to do just what you suggest.

            Reading Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader
            The Persian Puzzle
            The Rise of the Vulcans

            for starters.

            You would have been of better service to your blog if you stopped at the explanation of the tags.

            Consider me gone and I'm sure you will say good riddance!

            "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul. One brave deed is worth a thousand books." Edward Abbey

            by Maty on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 11:33:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I looked at the tag for North Korea. (0+ / 0-)

            Sorry, I'm afraid it's not what I'm looking for.  I'll carry on by myself.

            I hope you'll feel better soon.  I definitely did not make your day.

            I'm gone!

            "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul. One brave deed is worth a thousand books." Edward Abbey

            by Maty on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 11:54:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  chuck todd agreeing with me on hardball (5+ / 0-)

    lieberman stopped being a CT senator and thought of himself as a US senator.

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:07:25 PM PDT

  •  Cross posted from an earlier thread.. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Christin, lrhoke, demkat620

    I didn't trust or believe Joe at first..

    but I am now lumping him in with Sen. Chuck Hagel and Jack Cafferty...

    wrong on most social issues, tolerable on fiscal issues, but at least honest and not anchored to talking points and this criminal administration...they seem to know right from wrong...

    yes, he promotes Republicans...which you expect..but he knows the line between politics and integrity...

    I can yell at the scream at him...but at least he is honest with himself...

    See Katrina and Schiavo examples of Scarborough to call a spade a spade...

    I wonder what is in the MSNBC kool aid these days...Tucker Carlson just went off on Lanny Davis...maybe Keith is waking everyone up...

    you have to start somewhere..

    and if Dan Abrams is somehow trying to turn MSNBC slightly left...well, he may just get a few more viewers...

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you...then you win -- Mahatma Gandhi

    by justmy2 on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:07:30 PM PDT

  •  I agree, but would put it differently... (0+ / 0-)

    I think the point is to get behind candidates who are able to express the heartfelt opinions of the base: anger at the Shrub's assault on the constitution here in the US, his idiotic war in Iraq, his screwup in Afghanistan, his screwups in Palestine and North Korea, his forthcoming screwup in Iran, his screwup of the American economy, budget, Medicare,....

    This is not a radical, far-left agenda.  It is quite mainstream, and candidates who can articulate this well are what we need.  Of course, the repugs will try to paint this as weak on security.  Let's take a page out of Rove's book, and hammer them on how they've weakened America's security.  Rattle off their errors in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Point out how it could've been done better, esp. by listening to common sense.  Hammer home their chickenhawk natures.

    We do have the candidates who can do this--our Fighting Dems for Congress.  And in 2008, we can also have presidential candidates who can credibly say this as well--Clark, for one.  But there are others as well.  (Gore, for instance!)

    But yes, I do wonder why Joe Scarborough is saying this, and to you!

  •  It never really was about Right and Left (0+ / 0-)

    It always has been about power...either for or against the people. Namely, corporate control of our government, officials, etc. versus populist control as it should be in a democracy.

    The right/left agrument has been a successful distraction for those who don't want power for the people...they have been using it for decades. Both sides have. They pad their pocketbooks and perpetuate their power plays.

    Say that 10 times fast. ;)

  •  I haven't been moving left (0+ / 0-)

    I'm at the same spot I've been at this entire freakin' century so far.  I've become more challenging to Democrats, though, but that is the loss of ambivalence or apathy, not an ideological movement.

  •  The message of Connecticut (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    demkat620

    Democratic voters will hold politicians accountable.

    Republican voters will NOT.

  •  He knows we love KO... (5+ / 0-)

    so he is trying to pick us up to increase his viewership.

    "There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos." - Jim Hightower

    by Hanna for Change on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:09:10 PM PDT

  •  Believe me, I WISH Lamont's ... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mike S, seaprog, demkat620, Elise

    ...victory - if he does win - means the Democrats are moving left. But it doesn't. And if Lamont and Jim Webb and Jon Tester and (obviously) Bob Casey win in November, it still won't mean the party is moving left.

    I wish it were so. So why do I want Lamont to win so much? Because, as a Popular Front Democrat, a leftist who sometimes gets so furious at the incumbent Democrats and the party leadership that I think I'll go blind, I know that Democratic victories in Congress and the White House are essential to starting down the road to the kind of America I want to see even if I find some of the views of those individual Democrats difficult to take.

  •  i hope he is being honest (0+ / 0-)

    because i agree.  i think the Democrats need to go left because this country is in need of some serious course correction.  move that frame over to the left!

    -Hype

    Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating. --Brazil (1985)

    by hypersphere01 on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:10:22 PM PDT

  •  Disagree about 2008 however (0+ / 0-)
    and unless the Thugs nominate Rudy, isn't their guy going to be way far to the right? So I doubt playing to our base will hurt us at all in 2008. Anyway I welcome the change to bring it on rather than triangulating.

    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again, but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    by Lefty the playwright on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:10:33 PM PDT

  •  I don't think I have moved left (4+ / 0-)

    Rather, the Republicans and Republican Lites have moved to the right, making me seem MORE EXTREME.

    We need the country back.  

    -6.5, -7.59. If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

    by DrWolfy on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:10:45 PM PDT

  •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

    Not everything is political.  Alot of people are interested in politics in the same way alot of people are into baseball.  I think Karl Rove has the moral compass of a garden slug, but I respect his ability as a political strategist.  That's all he's really doing, looking at it from a strategic perspective.

  •  It means making you PROUD to be a Dem. (0+ / 0-)
    That is all.
  •  But if we do that ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elouise

    then Cokie Roberts won't like us!

    ROFL!

  •  Bill Finch Probably Set Lieberman up with the Web (0+ / 0-)

    List of clients shows Bill Finch, close friend to Lieberman.

    Above and Beyond: Virtual Office Staff
    ADD Centre
    ALLSTATE Commercial Driver Training
    Best of Connecticut Basketball School
    Senator Bill Finch
    Body Transformers, Inc.
    Burst Apparel
    Capitol Region Education Council (CREC)
    Connecticut Association for the Gifted
    Connecticut Basketball School (CBS)
    Connecticut Restoration Specialists, LLC
    CT Audubon Society
    CT Carpenters Apprentice & Training
    CT National Organization for Women
    Cusson's Windows and Doors
    Diane Farrell for Congress
    Essexct.gov
    European Motorcars
    Future Fitness, Sport Specific Training
    Goals Achieved
    Greater Hartford Classical School
    HBH Marketing Communications
    Hawley Society
    Helping Hands for Project Playground
    Hollis Gardens
    Howard Rosenfield, Stockbroker Problems
    Iranian Human Rights Documentation Council
    Jim Arden Foundation
    Komen Connecticut
    The Middlesex County Substance Abuse Action Council (MCSAAC)
    New England Conference for the Talented and Gifted
    Norwalk Democrats
    Pathways to Technology Magnet School
    Stratford Historical Society
    UNITE! Disability Service Council
    Vincent Roman Associates
    West Side Athletic Club
    Whirly Ball
    Wooster Street Travel

  •  Proof we live in an absurd world.. (0+ / 0-)

    The decrepit Imus, who could easily be mistaken for an extra in Night of The Living Dead, is referred to by Scarborough as an authority on the appearance of candidates...

    -6.25, -5.18

    "If you treat people right they will treat you right - ninety percent of the time" - FDR

    by assyrian64 on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:12:02 PM PDT

  •  Last breath of a dying CT Senatorial candidate (0+ / 0-)

    Lieberman blames Rove-like tactics for Web site disruption

    Rovian-tactics. Nice. A Dem (by title) accusing Dems of Rovian tactics. And he wonders why he's sloughed support like blood from a flea-infested cat.

    Phillybits - A Showcase Of Political News And Thought

    by Stand Strong on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:12:36 PM PDT

  •  I've seen Scarborough (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Christin, lrhoke, Geotpf, exmearden

    as turning.  He is a conservative, but not a Republican anymore.  Which is a nice change.  

    Most people are idiots... But don't tell them. It'll spoil all the fun for those of us who aren't.

    by d3n4l1 on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:14:30 PM PDT

  •  Well Scarborough did say that (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lrhoke, Geotpf, exmearden

    RFK was one of his top heroes because of his courage, even though he would have disagreed with him on most issues.  This doesn't particularly surprise me.

  •  Go extreme (0+ / 0-)

    Veering wildly left makes perfect sense for democrats specifically because there is no such thing as a republican moderate anymore. By going hard left democrats get the energy of their base and they force the mushy middle to make a clear choice:

    the party of all war all the time, endless tax cuts for the wealthy, corporate raping of everything, and domination over everyone's private lives, or

    the party of the working and middle class, of diplomacy and international cooperation, of education for our children, of protecting the environment, and protecting everyone's right to privacy: to the religious practices of their choosing, reproductive rights, living with the partner of their choosing.

    the difference is so stark that possibly, maybe even the dullard uninterested American middle could see it enough to actually vote their self interest instead of that of the plutocracy, possibly even inspite of the best efforts of corporate media to mask the true nature of the cult of republicanism.

    •  the 'mushy center' will make a clear choice: (0+ / 0-)

      staying home and not voting because both sides suck.

      the party of the working and middle class, of diplomacy and international cooperation, of education for our children, of protecting the environment, and protecting everyone's right to privacy: to the religious practices of their choosing, reproductive rights, living with the partner of their choosing.

      and i'd hardly call those "extreme left" or left at all - depending on the specific policy positions, of course.

      # Members: 99,366 (as of 2:00pm 8/8). Projected Date of 100,000th member registration: August 12, 2006
      http://www.bloggingintheblue.com

      by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:19:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

        "and i'd hardly call those "extreme left" or left at all - depending on the specific policy positions, of course."

        I don't call it extreme either, but US corporate media shilling for the cult of republicanism surely sells it as such.

  •  Work to Formulate a Comprehensive Agenda (0+ / 0-)

    Most of what the people deal with on a daily basis is not even part of the Republican agenda - The Republicans just want to tax labor and stop taxing capital, period. They want to use the military like a servant to ensure cheap oil. They mistreat women, minorities, and anyone else they don't care to like while pandering to the retrograde urges of the far-right. They don't tolerate dissent. They trade away public resources for private gains. They use criminal financial and electoral schemes to subvert democratic processes. They favor closed door sessions to sunshine laws meant to open up goverment to the public.

    From the Democrats, I would settle for a few basic progressive agenda items like access to healthcare, imporved education, and better international relations for starters, feel free to add more; but let's drive home the point that this is the Democratic agenda. That this agenda lines up with what people need and want from their government; not the foreign adventures the Bush Republicans have brought us at the cost of our collective security, wasted public investment, and lives lost. Democrats have all the cards, and need to play them each time they get to a microphone. They already have the answers, they just need to communicate them as Lamont has done here - the Iraq War is a real problem; but it's just the start of what's been wrong with Congress and Bush. Good luck Ned Lamont, we need you.

    "What's in the name of lord, that I should fear; To bring my grievance to the public ear?" - The Crisis, January 13, 1777

    by TPaine on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:17:23 PM PDT

  •  1 + 2 = 3 (0+ / 0-)

    In the present situation of a right-wing dominated Washington, for the Dems to "play to their base" and campaign as "outsiders" will have to be "moving left."  I don't see how else you can create the necessary separation between Bush era policies and the reforming challenge.  Calling for whatever the Dems can summon up the courage to call for on Iraq, "phased withdrawal" or "redeployment" or however they want to present a "reasonable" exit strategy, is "moving left" compared to "stay the course".  Reducing the power of Big Oil in dealing with the twin global crises of peak oil and global warming, means "moving left" from the economics of deregulated oligarchy.  Any proposal  that is meaningful on any issue across the board will be "moving left" compared to what exists.   What's the alternative?  How can the Dems create the separation from the Republicans to energize the base and appeal as outsiers without "moving left" against what's going on now?

  •  I do find this a bit bizarro... (0+ / 0-)

    but I can't say that I'm displeased by his analysis.  In the current situaion in this country, I think we certainly need a drastic shift to the left overall, and swinging the Dems to the left could ultimately pull the Rethugs back into the realm of sanity.

    I really hope that's the case.

    "I worry a great deal about the future of democracy in America"
    - President of St. Lawrence University Daniel Sullivan at Commencement 2004

    by Team Slacker on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:19:26 PM PDT

  •  Love this... (0+ / 0-)

    CNN is offering a video; you can find it on this page--over on the right side, natch--

    here

    It's titled "Lieberman's Last Stand".

    Prepare to be scalped, Joe.

    "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

    by ogre on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:20:54 PM PDT

  •  I agree with this Joe (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lrhoke, exmearden

    People want opposition.  You can be as conservative as they come, but if you're willing to put the GOP through the ringer every time they try to pull something, that's opposition.

    That's what the Democrats haven't been doing.  That's what we're demanding.

    This isn't about moving right left or center.  It's not ideological.  I mean, Chuck Hagel is saying more against the war than the vast majority of other senators.

    When are the Marshall Wittmans of the world going to read enough history to see that moderation only works temporarily.  Eisenhower, Clinton.  Neither of them realigned politics.  FDR and Goldwater did.

  •  Simple logic.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    exmearden

    ..Get elected and do what you said you were going to do in your campaign. People will be better-off overall and then you don't have to worry about left, right or center. Geez!

  •  Scarborough is not a dumbass... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lrhoke, Geotpf

    He can be very critical of his conservative pals at times.

  •  So on this slow newsday ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tiggers thotful spot, elouise

    what up with Natalee Holloway?

  •  Kos on Countdown with Keith!!! (0+ / 0-)

    If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve.

    by jhecht on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:34:13 PM PDT

  •  'Go left' (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise

    I had a Republican friend who told me in 1992 that he thought it was a good thing Bush lost, because every once in awhile it was good to lose one, purge, come out stronger and win.  And that's just what they did in 1994.

    Joe is telling dems to "go left" and win in 2006, because he feels that a Democratically-controlled congress will make it easier for Republicans to win in 2008.  And I'm sure he also believes that there are too many republicans in congress right now who are hurting the party rather than helping them.  He may believe that a good old-fashioned bloodletting is just what the doctor ordered.

    Joe is just saying what George Will has often said recently and what my friend said so many years ago.  It's time for republicans to lose, sit out a year, rethink things.

    And I'm sure it doesn't cost him anything with the republican base to say this.

    But I do agree with Kos.  Republicans are hoping they can run against a pinko commie radical democratic party in 2008.  And I think this is what they don't get.  That's not necessarily where Dems are right now (not that it's a bad thing).  It's certainly not Lamont's m.o.  

  •  All I can think of (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elise

    is that Scarborough's proximity to the liberal Olbermann is wearing off. In other words, I doubt this is some kind of phony concern for our side. I think he means what he says. And it makes a lot of sense.

  •  I'm not sure (0+ / 0-)

    that this isn't some kind of corporate move as well.
    MSNBC has been staking out a claim in the cable wars against FoxNooz with Olberman for nearly 2 years.

    Scarborough's recent attack against Laura(I leave the balcony and you don't)Ingraham, concerning her defense of Mel Gibson's racist behavior, sounded like a canned move towards the more liberal audience that they have somehow just identified as being under-represented on TV.

    While I welcome the the move, it's hard for me to believe that this particular leopard has changed his spots at all.

    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." -voltaire

    by joeyess on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:44:53 PM PDT

  •  Oh for goodness sake (0+ / 0-)

    Here is a word the informed really don’t need, but anyway...

    The American political center has shifted so far left than by now in 2006 it is just slightly left of the 1920's Italian Fascists. The political shift mentioned above while indeed leftward is naught but back to a little more middle of the road moderation of the sort mail line Democrats once embraced. These moronic crybaby apologists for corporate greed and corruption would run in tears to their mothers and hide under her skirts if they encountered an actual leftist in full flower. These so called conservatives have played chorus for Newt like leads in the rights vast echo machine for so long now they have lost all touch with reality. They spend most of their time scaring themselfs with specters of their own making while stupidly voting away their rights and opportunities.

    Is that saying these sheeple are foundering on an ideological opiate? Of course it is. Lord I detest trying to haul ideological addicts out of political quicksand who insist on trying to drag me down with them. It’s almost enough to make one back the principal of democratic centralism, the bedrock of real leftists...but not quite!
     

    Integrity is the doing what is right in the absence of witnesses and with no other gain in mind.

    by Bobjack23 on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 04:51:06 PM PDT

  •  Joe, (0+ / 0-)

    For all the harmful disinformation and marginalizing narratives you have forced on your viewers regarding Democrats and the Democratic party, you'll have to do a lot more than send a white-flag capitulatory email to our host Kos to hide the fact that you are not a journalist.

    When your twisted ideology loses power in November, I expect the only way you will be taken seriously is through apology and a sincere attempt at honest journalism.  Otherwise, get ready for marginal relevance.

    "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

    by Five of Diamonds on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 05:19:22 PM PDT

  •  'Pencil-necked geek.' (0+ / 0-)

    Why are Scarborough and Imus stealing catch phrases from "Classy" Freddie Blassie?

    Glenn Danzig shops for groceries and more! The Fluorescent Hendersons are the mad jam.

    by Tony Saint on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 08:37:40 PM PDT

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