Skip to main content

John Gorenfeld has posted a video clip of Sun Myung Moon appearing before the Judiciary Committee on June 26, 1984. In the clip, Moon acknowledges that by then he had already poured hundreds of millions of dollars into America from overseas.

Quoting Moon from Gorenfeld's clip:

Several hundred million dollars have been poured into America because this nation will decide the destiny of the world. These contributions are primarily coming from overseas.
That quote was from 1984. As of today the amount Moon has "poured" into America has reached well into the billions. Stay with me on the flop and I will interpret the Mooneeze in that quote and tell you where billions Moon used to bring the right to power in America originated...

First let me interpret the Mooneeze in that quote for you, this is what the conservative's Savior was saying:

"Though I am not citizen, I have brought bags and bags of cash from overseas into the USA to manipulate your political structure - I do this to bring about my world vision. You are too damn naive to see it or care; you will laugh at me or ignore me, so I will get away with it. I will push you to a right wing, theocratic, homophobic, authoritarian governance and I will do this right before your eyes and you will not see for you are blind to my efforts. In fact, the conservative movement in America, the Christian right, who as the Messiah I am here to raise up to control your government, will help me. You will all help me, either directly or by your silence."

This is the overseas money that created the empire which has funded the Washington Times, and people like Falwell, theocrat Lahaye, and to bail out and help keep in business conservative mail order guru Richard Viguerie. This is the money that paid for George Bush 41 to shill for Moon on three continents. This is the money which created front groups designed to gather the "Christian" right for political power like the American Freedom Coalition.

Moon has been wildly successful but the media will not talk about it.

Think about this as you read below. For a couple years now we have watched the right, O'Reilly, Rush, Coulter, Hannity and all the rest of the mind molders of the conservative movement, as they bitched and moaned that U.S. citizen George Soros was trying to "buy the Democratic Party" with his donations of roughly 25 million dollars to liberal causes during the 2004 election cycle. Do you ever hear them tell their followers that Sun Myung Moon has spent BILLIONS bringing them to power? If you ask a conservative who their "sugar daddy" is, they will likely mention Richard Mellon Scaife. The WP reported a few years ago that Scaife had spent some $300 million on conservative causes over 40 years. SUN MYUNG MOON has outspent Scaife 7 fold on the Washington Times alone in 20, yet most of the people in the country don't know Moon is still alive and certainly most conservatives don't know he is their prime "sugar daddy."

No, he didn't do it by himself, but let's look at the money Moon used to play a major role in bringing the right to power. Let's look at the money the Moon organization used to give right wing conservatism the boost it needed to put it in control of our closely divided government. Let's look at the money without which it is doubtful George Bush would would have been nominated, let alone allowed to become president.

From the WP Nov 1997

The long-standing explanation: It is Japan, not Korea, that provides the bulk of the church's wealth -- as much as 70 percent, church observers estimate. A former high-ranking Japanese church member told The Post in 1984 that $800 million had come from Japan into the United States in the previous nine years.

Japanese church members have long turned profits selling ginseng products and religious items such as miniature stone pagodas -- products imported from Moon companies in Korea. But tough sales tactics -- as well as disputed claims of spiritual power -- have led to class-action suits in Japan, and hundreds of claimants have won judgments and settlements in the last five years.

I STRONGLY URGE YOU to read part two here to get a good picture of how the swindles worked.

From the WP Sept 1984

Exhorted by pep talks to meet "the respected father's" needs, Japanese church members have worked in recent years under sales quotas requiring them to transfer to the United States roughly $2.5 million a month earmarked for The Times, Soejima said.

"The Washington Times was the top priority of the entire Unification Church worldwide," said Soejima, who was editor of Sekai Nippo (World Daily News), a church-controlled Tokyo newspaper, before being fired last October following a dispute with church officials over control of the paper. .....

Starting in 1975, they said, the church mobilized its Japanese members for a massive fund-raising effort that has used high-pressure sales techniques to take advantage of the religious superstitions of Japanese consumers.

Handwritten notes that Soejima made at some church finance meetings indicate that the Japanese church was taking in more than $100 million a year during 1981 and 1982, most of which was transferred to church headquarters in New York. ...

According to Soejima and others, the profits from sales of these items can be enormous. In an extreme case, he said, a vase that cost about $21 was sold for $8,300. A quantity of ginseng worth about $42 sold for eight times that amount. One salesman can raise about $4,000 per month, he said.

The salesmen's expenses are minimal. During his years in the church, Soejima said, he often visited church members at grimy group houses where they slept half a dozen to a room. The members receive no salary from the church and immediately hand over all their sales proceeds to the house "leader." Once a month, Soejima said, a church official comes to the house and "they collect it in cash and bring it to Tokyo."

The Unification Church, now called the Family Federation for World Peace and Unification, has been found responsible by the Japanese court system of swindling the citizens of Japan. This is how the Japanese Lawyers association described what followers of Moon have been put through in Japan.

All day long, they are forced to do fund-raising by committing illegal acts such as swindling through a fraudulent missionary work and spiritual sales.
As of today, UC appeals to the higher courts in Japan have failed. This is an older quote from one ruling where the Japanese courts found the UNIFICATION CHURCH responsible.
The Court recognized that the Unification Church as a religious corporate body did perpetrate unlawful acts against plaintiffs "A" and "B". In addition to corporate liability, the Court also holds the employees of the Unification Church liable for the actions of the church corporate body. The Court ruling has set a new, epoch-making legal precedent for future District Court decisions. [Judgment by the Fukuoka District Court on the Unification Church [English Translation] Court: Fukuoka District Case Number: 1990 #1082 Date of Judgment: 27 May 1994
According to the WP, the Unification Church had paid 150 million dollars settling many of the claims by 1996.

At last count a couple of years ago, there were 20,000 claims totaling $800 million dollars. The people fighting for the citizens of Japan against the UC say this about the figures "...most certainly this sum is only a fraction of all real damages incurred by people in Japan as a result of Unification Church activities."

That would put the amounts swindled from the Japanese into the billions.

How did they get the cash into the USA? Nansook Hong, Moon's ex-daughter-in-law, reported a good bit on the group's cash smuggling activities in her book, In the Shadows of the Moons.

Here is an excerpt from a Robert Parry article which discussed Hong's book:

According to Nansook Hong, much of the money went into family safes to be doled out later to fund Moon's American businesses, his political operations and his family's luxuries.

Nansook Hong described one incident in 1992 when she personally participated in smuggling cash past U.S. Customs at the instructions of Rev. Moon's wife, Hak Ja Han Moon. Hong recounted numerous other cases in which the Moons received cash from church members who brought money from overseas and delivered it in bags. ...

Millions more pour through Moon front groups with innocuous-sounding names, such as the Women's Federation for World Peace and the American Freedom Coalition, indirectly benefiting other leading conservatives, including the Rev. Jerry Falwell and Iran-contra figure Oliver L. North. ...

"The Unification Church was a cash operation," Nansook Hong wrote. "I watched Japanese church leaders arrive at regular intervals at East Garden [the Moon compound north of New York City] with paper bags full of money, which the Reverend Moon would either pocket or distribute to the heads of various church-owned business enterprises at his breakfast table.

" The Japanese had no trouble bringing the cash into the United States; they would tell customs agents that they were in America to gamble at Atlantic City. In addition, many businesses run by the church were cash operations, including several Japanese restaurants in New York City. I saw deliveries of cash from church headquarters that went directly into the wall safe in Mrs. Moon's closet."

Mrs. Moon pressed her daughter-in-law into one cash-smuggling incident after a trip to Japan in 1992. Mrs. Moon had received "stacks of money" and divvied it up among her entourage for the return trip through Seattle, Hong wrote.

"I was given $20,000 in two packs of crisp new bills," Hong remembered. "I hid them beneath the tray in my makeup case. ... I knew that smuggling was illegal, but I believed the followers of Sun Myung Moon answered to higher laws."...

In 1994, Rev. Moon sent Hyo Jin $1 million in cash, Hong wrote. Hyo Jin delivered $600,000 to the Manhattan Center in a Bloomingdale's shopping bag and "skimmed off" $400,000 for himself. Former Manhattan Center officials have confirmed independently that the $600,000 was laundered through other Moon business enterprises.

Nansook Hong wrote that Moon "demonstrated contempt for U.S. law every time he accepted a paper bag full of untraceable, undeclared cash collected from true believers." ["Moon's Dark Shadow" by Robert Parry Oct 1, 1998]

The Washington Post reported this in 1997:
Ron Paquette, who was president of Manhattan Center Studio, the church's New York recording facility, until he left the faith in 1994. Paquette, whose job gave him access to financial information about several church-related businesses, said he believes virtually none of Unification's U.S. operations is profitable. "A lot of the stuff they do is for prestige, so they can show President Bush our dance academy and our newspaper," Paquette said. "The idea is to bring Bush in, use his name and picture, buy Moon credibility."

The road to that credibility, critics say, is paved with cash.

"Rev. Moon sent bags of cash, big fat bags, stacks and stacks of hundreds, from Korea and Japan to Manhattan Center," the church's recording studio in New York City, Paquette said. "Whenever we asked where the money was coming from, the answer was it just came 'from Father.'"

From Robert Parry, "The Bush-Moon Money Conduit"
Maria Madelene Pretorious, a former Unification Church member who worked at Moon's Manhattan Center, a New York City music venue and recording studio, testified at a court hearing in Massachusetts that in December of 1993 or January of 1994, one of Moon's sons, Hyo Jin Moon, returned from a trip to Korea "with $600,000 in cash which he had received from his father. ... Myself along with three or four other members that worked at Manhattan Center saw the cash in bags, shopping bags."

In an interview with me in the mid-1990s, Pretorious said Asian church members would bring cash into the United States where it would be circulated through Moon's business empire as a way to launder it. At the center of this financial operation, Pretorious said, was One-Up Corp., a Delaware-registered holding company that owned many Moon enterprises including the Manhattan Center and New World Communications, the parent company of the Washington Times.

"Once that cash is at the Manhattan Center, it has to be accounted for," Pretorious said. "The way that's done is to launder the cash. Manhattan Center gives cash to a business called Happy World which owns restaurants. ... Happy World needs to pay illegal aliens. ... Happy World pays some back to the Manhattan Center for 'services rendered.' The rest goes to One-Up and then comes back to Manhattan Center as an investment."

Today Moon's organization is involved with or is attempting to insinuate itself into peace negotiations with North Korea, the Middle East and into the political structure of countries all over the world. He has now opened up the left flank of Christianity having gathered many African American ministers into his web of influence. No doubt Moon has used conservatism and right wing Christianity as his predominate agents to bring his vision to America. But democratic politicians, mostly on the local and state level, send his fronts greetings on their stops around the country and do nothing to discourage his plans for the planet.

Moon, as you know, claims he is the Messiah and that Jesus failed to complete his mission. They have gone so far as to perform a service in which Jesus was married to Korean woman to get Him into heaven. From Parry's discussion of Nansook Hong, Moon's x daughter in law's book:

Even as Moon poured hundreds of millions of dollars into the American Right and ingratiated himself with President Reagan, Moon's religious pronouncements grew increasingly bizarre. When one of his teenage sons, Heung Jin, died in a car crash in 1983, Moon declared the Heung Jin had supplanted Jesus as the King of Heaven.

In 1984, Moon arranged a strange ceremony in which he married his dead son's spirit to Hoon Sook Pak, the daughter of longtime Moon lieutenant Bo Hi Pak, then the publisher of The Washington Times. Moon's theology required the wedding because he believed only married individuals could enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Even Jesus needed Rev. Moon's help in this way. "In what must stand as his ultimate act of arrogance, Sun Myung Moon actually had matched Jesus to an elderly Korean woman," Nansook Hong wrote. "Jesus himself needed the intervention of the Reverend Moon to move through those gates" of heaven.

I am not a Biblical scholar but everything I do know about the Book is explicit that Christians should expose false teaching and then shun or ignore the person or group who teaches those falsehoods. It does not say you should honor them, work with them and it certainly doesn't say you should promote them.

From U.S News and World Report March 27, 1989 (transcribed not available on the net):

On New Year's Day, 1987, South Korean mystic Sun Myung Moon, who considers himself to be the son of God, told his Unification Church followers that he wanted to expand the church's political influence in the United States. His aim, Moon said, was "the natural subjugation of the American government and population." ...

[the Unification Church] has established a network of affiliated organizations and connections in almost every conservative organization in Washington, including the Heritage Foundation, the largest of the conservative think tanks and an important source of government personnel during the Reagan administration. Although Heritage officials deny it, the foundation has dramatically changed its policy toward the Unification Church. In the early 80's the foundation, wary of the church's aims, prohibited staff or fellows from being associated with Unification Church organizations or taking money from the church or church-financed institutions.

As the Washington Times has become the voice of capital conservatives, the Heritage Foundation has become far more tolerant of church ties. ...

The Unification Church's newfound influence has occasioned intense debate among conservatives. One group of worried young conservatives meets regularly in private to compare notes about the problem. But little of the debate has surfaced in public forums. "Most people are afraid to address the issue because they don't want to publicize the extent of the church's involvement," says Amy Moritz of the Conservative National Center for Public Policy Research.

Because almost all conservative organizations in Washington have some ties to the church, conservatives also fear repercussions if they expose the church's role. That happened when one organization, the Capital Research Center, published a newsletter last November warning of the church's attempt to create a "centralized world theocracy." One of its board members, who was also on the board of the International Security Council, resigned in protest, and conservatives charging that the paper was creating discord on the right, besieged the center with angry calls. "We got a very, very strong reaction -- almost as if we were the enemy -- because we raised the issue," says CRC Chairman Willa Johnson, a former president of the Heritage Foundation.

From Mr. Parry's Dark Side of Rev. Moon: Buying the Right
By the mid-1980s, Moon's Unification Church had carved out a niche as an acceptable part of the American right. In one speech to his followers, Moon boasted that "without knowing it, even President Reagan is being guided by Father (Moon)." Yet, Moon also made clear that his longer-range goal was the destruction of the U.S. Constitution and America's democratic form of government. "History will make the position of Reverend Moon clear, and his enemies, the American population and government will bow down to him." Moon said, speaking of himself in the third person. "That is Father's tactic, the natural subjugation of the American government and population."
While we still haven't figured out what he did here, Moon has moved onto the planet and he will be successful there also because no one sees what he is doing and the media refuses to report on his efforts.

No one post nor any one individual can cover Moon and his efforts, the story is much to large and involved. The above is just a very small snapshot. Please look around on your own. If you would like more on his money, about how the Unification Church has funded its operation in the United States try reading the links in numbers 41-51 here.

For more on all aspects of the Moon organization visit John Gorenfeld's eye opening blog which is back in operation after a short hiatus. Also check out former members, Steve Hassan and Allen Tate Wood's sites.

ON EDIT: One of many things I forgot to mention with regard to the Moon organziation making all this money from Japan: You might think the leaders would feel guilty about these swindles but Moon simply made it part of the doctrine that Japan, as the "Eve" country, supply him with funds.

from the WP Aug 4, 1996

Oe [church official] said Unification Church doctrine requires Japan to bankroll church activities. He said South Korea is "Adam's country," Japan is "Eve's country" and the other countries where the church has followers are their offspring. "Japan is mother and wife," Oe said. "So Japan has the mission to support her husband and raise her children."

Originally posted to moonboots on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:05 AM PDT.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  HUGE Recommend (17+ / 0-)

    superb diary and the topic of influence peddling never gets the attention it should.

  •  Sun Myung Moon is the Antichrist (10+ / 0-)

      I don't mean that as a slur; just noting that here is a guy who actually, literally, claims to be the Messiah.  Of course, he isn't.

    •  Hey, he was crowned in a Senate office building (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave925, Panda

      So, like, it's official. You're not allowed to, like, scoff at officially coronated Messiahs.

      Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

      More lovely pix here.

      Why yes, a GOP senator granted access for the dazzling ceremony in the Dirksen building! How'd you guess?  But, hey, he said he was, like, duped.  And the glitterati attending?  Uh, they were there to honor those receiving peace awards from a Moon-financed group, not to, uh, worship the Messiah.

      The Illinois Democrat who, wearing white gloves, carried Moon's crown for the ceremony had a little more trouble 'splaining that he, like, didn't know what was happening til it was too late.  'Specially since he'd been on at least four Moon-funded junkets.  Said Rep. Danny K. Davis:

      "I'm not involved in any cult activities"...but "Moon's organization 'put together a little fundraiser one time and gave me a few thousand dollars."

      Let us pray!

      Our father :::cah-ching::: who art in heaven :::cah-ching:::
      Hallowed :::cah-ching::: be thy name :::cah-ching:::
      Thy fund-raising be done :::cah-ching:::
      Thy velvet curtains be hung :::cah-ching:::
      In the Dirksen :::cah-ching::: as they are in Heaven :::cah-ching:::  :::cah-ching:::  :::cah-ching:::  :::cah-ching:::

      "Injustice wears ever the same harsh face wherever it shows itself." - Ralph Ellison

      by KateCrashes on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:56:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  My Favorite Bio (5+ / 0-)

    "[T]hat I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake."

    by Heronymous Cowherd on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:00:56 AM PDT

  •  Vitally Important Diary (9+ / 0-)

    Enthusiastically recommended.

  •  Sushi connection (13+ / 0-)

    If you eat raw fish, you probably help support the Moonies and Moon's nefarious empire to some degree.

    Moon has bought up much of the infrastructure that distributes fish used in sushi and sashimi in this country.  The Chicago Tribune ran a great piece on it earlier this year.

    The guy's a freakin' James Bond villain.

    RULE OF LAW. That's all the reason you need to oppose Republicans.

    by nightsweat on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:04:43 AM PDT

  •  'Here they come, marching into American sunlight' (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    claude, Dave925, Panda, Elise, 4Freedom, J Royce

    Yup—he's been beavering away at this for some time now, and nary a challenge to him, really.

    if i make them very tiny, may i have more letters for my sig?

    by subtropolis on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:05:06 AM PDT

  •  Excellent (10+ / 0-)

    work.

    Moon has funded the rise of the right, and this needs to be hammered home.  On college campuses, Moon's group funds Campus Crusade for Christ, and they've got tentacles everywhere.  And they are a highly explotative cult, and the people who accept their support, and offer refuge to them should be outed.  Unfortunately this includes Democrats like Rep. Harold Ford, who took part in the deeply creepy crowning ceremony held for Moon in a Senate office building.

    •  I don't think most of these people attended (7+ / 0-)

      but several lent their names to the host list. Another trivia question solved, Danny Davis did not "crown" Moon. He actually carried Mrs. Moon's crown and Moon's third son and likley heir, Hyun Jin and his wife did the crowning.

      Still, you had Davis and Roscoe Bartlett(who carried Mrs. Moon's robe) bowing to Moon.

      Kind of gives new meaning to this line from the post:

      "History will make the position of Reverend Moon clear, and his enemies, the American population and government will bow down to him..."

      Moon is doing many of things he predicted years ago, he isn't doing them exactly as people would expect so he is invisivle to them.

      "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

      by moonboots on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 12:43:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How can we use this in the upcoming election? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Panda, bee

        I'm thinking of Ohio, where Blackwell has CLOSE ties to Rod Parsley and other mega churches.

        E.g. how can we get the details to write LTEs to local papers to tie Blackwell to Moonie-ism.

        Also, if we have friends who attend mega-churches, what's a good elevator speil? Maybe something along the lines of: "So. You're a Moonie and I bet you didn't even know it."

  •  Gimme Action Links, please n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda, Elise, 4Freedom
    •  Action links - these people are dangerous (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Panda, J Royce

      Moonies have been around too long doing things that are too wacky. Moon's goal is very dark, and his basis of support very powerful. If you know of good action links, please supply them.

      May you live in interesting times. Ancient Chinese curse

      by 4Freedom on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:26:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't know (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wader, Dave925, bee, Coherent Viewpoint

      I struggle with how to "tell" people about him all the time. I bring his name up and toss in a few facts at opportune times. I find most people don't know much about Moon. I didn't until a few years ago. (Thanks to Moonboots) All I knew then was the superficial cult and wedding stuff, I'd never followed the money. And I've still only scratched the surface. Moonboots knows more than anyone I know, he's been researching for ages and trying to pass on the information to people whose eyes mostly glaze over. A thankless task. Haha.

      To get folks interested in Moon, use the hooks,  his bizarre sex organ comments, bailing out Jerry Falwell to the tune of millions, infiltrating Christian churches, burying the crosses, his connections directly to people in Congress, Wa Times, and paying the Bush family for little speeches that "validate" Moon's influence worldwide. Poppy and Bar have raked in millions pimping Moon. THAT one gets interest. It's hard to get people to dig in, it's a huge topic. HUGE. He owns SO much here and his influence spans the globe.  From real estate to our politicians...he's got us by the short and curlies.  And he's under the radar.

      I think your comment was a good one. Action links. Anybody have any ideas? People like Joe Conason are aware of Moon's influence and of course MB's fellow experts referenced in his diary. But how often can Conason write about it? People lose interest. But if it could be condensed into something palatable for the masses it's worth doing. How to make Moon a sexy household name...if you think of the answer you're a genius!  You know how it is with "the public"...the attention span of a gnat is looking mighty long these days. ;)

      Moonboots, excellent as usual. {Giant applause sign}

  •  Remember that bizarre 'Coronation' (2004)? (11+ / 0-)

    On March 23, the Dirksen Senate Office Building was the scene of a coronation ceremony for Rev. Sun Myung Moon, owner of the conservative Washington Times newspaper and UPI wire service, who was given a bejeweled crown by Rep. Danny K. Davis, D-Ill. Afterward, Moon told his bipartisan audience of Washington power players he would save everyone on Earth as he had saved the souls of Hitler and Stalin -- the murderous dictators had been born again through him, he said. In a vision, Moon said the reformed Hitler and Stalin vouched for him, calling him "none other than humanity's Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent."

    http://dir.salon.com/...

    •  Wasn't this the ceremony (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave925, Panda, YetiMonk, Elise, Terrapin

      that Wacky Curt Weldon (R - PA-07) attended?  He then denied he was even there -- until photos of him at this thing surfaced. Then he said he didn't know that Moon was so strange.  Then photos of Weldon speaking at this ceremony showed up.  Well, we were just being nice was the gist of his explanation.

      Weldon is seriously entrenched and a true moonbat -- he's still looking for WMD in Iraq.  Don't know if the civil-war-that-cannot-be-acknowledged has registered with him yet.  Send $$$ to his opponent Joe Sestak (a netroots candidate!) to help get this moony-monied thug out of Congress.

  •  Good work, moonboots (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, Panda, Elise, the freak, 4Freedom, J Royce

    Well researched, informative and horrifying. Once again, the Church, a church, religion putting it's bloody hands on the American Body Politic.

    Meanwhile, all the real Christians snivel that we don't give religion enough attention.  It's not my job to save Christianity from blasphemers. It's your religion, Christians, and nutcases are speaking for it.  When do we hear from you?

    When does America hear from the real Christians, if they even exist at all anymore?  And no, I don't want to hear about it here at dKos. I want to hear it in the MSM, the big megaphone, how the real Christians are speaking up, finally, and drowning out the nutjobs who are speaking for you.

    -8.0, -7.03 don't always believe what you think...

    by claude on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:18:24 AM PDT

  •  Excellent diary, rec'd. (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, Panda, mattes, Elise, Gorette, 4Freedom

    Thankfully he's Korean and not caucasian. Otherwise, the fundies would probably all be worshipping him as the messiah.

    You cannot depend upon American institutions to function without pressure. --MLK Jr.

    by Opakapaka on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:25:04 AM PDT

  •  late 80's Washington (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, Panda, Elise, Gorette, 4Freedom

    I remember the moonies would come around selling 3D jesus cards, and the Washington Times was a place no one wanted to work for fear no "legit" publication would touch you after that. I left DC in the early 90's, and for the most part forgot about Moon and his weird mass-marriages and zombie trinket salesforce.

    On the one hand, it's amazing to me that the Times has become so accepted - but on the other, I'm not surprised that his influence has grown substantially because his money is green, after all, and what could possibly be more important than money?

  •  I'd forgotten too about all this. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, Panda, Elise

    He's under the radar these days and should not be. Why don't the Dem. pundits and news anchors on tv mention this when they talk of entities such as the W. Times to which his tentacles spread?

    Keep talking about this please!! Tnanks for this great diary!

    "....nobody would believe....that any group of leaders could be this incompetent, and catastrophically blind to reality." - Al Gore

    by Gorette on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:36:34 AM PDT

  •  'Real' Christians are speaking up. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, Panda, Elise

    But when even the Pope can't get media attention in this country, what can anyone else expect?

    Speak truth to power, it's a sin to tell a lie.

    by queen on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:44:05 AM PDT

  •  Great research (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, Panda, Elise

    Thanks for the diary!!

     

  •  Moon 'family values' as told by a former leader (8+ / 0-)

    Right now Moon's group will tell you they are not about converting. That is bacause they have hard time outright selling people on Moon and they know it. They have opted to work toward meshing all religions together.

    In the 70s he(Moon) was saying that democracy was evil, Americans were lazy, the Koreans are the master race. In fact he believes that when he takes over the world, which is his espoused goal, there’ll be a theocracy which will rule with himself and other leaders. All other religions will be abolished. The only language spoken will be Korean. I mean this man is a demagogue who doesn’t believe in pro family values, that’s just a hoax. What he believes is he is the True Parents of mankind and his group and the people who have been - quote “blessed” unquote - by him are now “the family.” Everyone else is in Satan’s world. Steve Hassan – Greater Boston – WGBH Boston – Dec. 1, 1997  

    "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

    by moonboots on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 12:54:50 PM PDT

  •  Excellent (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, Panda, Elise

    MB here is the undisputed expert on all things Moon. He's afr to modest but he has devoted much of the past several years to exposing this Fascist monster. A creation of blatant and unreconstructed Japanese yakuza/fascists who hung his hat on virulent "anti-communism". Coupled with THAT message and oodles of mis-gotten funds, authoritarian conservative types have flocked to him for under the radar support.

    Is it any wonder that the Shitboy clan, long time supporters of fascism who never met a buck they didn't like are closely allied to him?

    The thugs will howl "Tin-Foil" at you and Shitboy's twisted xtian followers will deny the hard facts in their faces but make no mistake, no Moon, no near fascist takeover of the US would ever have been remotely possible.

  •  Cannonfire blog often talks of Moon (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, Panda, Elise

    This recent article has just a mention toward the end.

    One nation, under surveillance, no liberty, nor justice for us

    by SisTwo on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:41:02 PM PDT

  •  'Flop,' huh? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda

    I like it.

  •  In the '90s, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda

    I went to work for two guys whom I later found out were members of the Unification Church.  It was really wierd, because they were so damned normal.  It was a tiny business - totally in keeping with their whole "one world" theme.  And it was a great company!  We sold flags and T-shirts and pins, etc., with the flags of all the countries of the world.  We had T-shirts with Croation flags and Tibetan keychains. Very cool stuff!  And people absolutely loved our shop.  It was the feel good shop in town.  I know that none of the money went to the UC because there was no money.  I kept the books (for the most part) and there was no income beyond what we needed to function.  No profit at all.  If I'd thought that i was aiding and abetting, I'm not sure what I would have done.

    I had a bit of a glimpse into the whole UC thing.  Very minimal.  But it was enough.

    I just can't stress enough, though, that these were completely normal people.  There was just that thing about the picture of The Rev. Moon on their wall...  (Yeah, I had occasion to got to their houses from time to time.)

    Pray for the separation of church and state. (-6.75, -6.24)

    by CJB on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:03:39 PM PDT

  •  Scientology is to Hollywood, as ___ is to D.C. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda

    The answer is Moonies. More people need to be aware of this.

  •  From selling useless shit in airports to... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda

    ruling the world. You gotta give him props as a capitolist. Even though he is bat-shit crazy.

    FREE TRADE ISN'T FREE!

    by Intercaust on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 11:09:40 PM PDT

    •  Actually he is anti-capitalism (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Panda, YucatanMan

      Several people say that most of his “businesses” have lost money over the years. This diary is about just one aspect of his money. There are still “mysterious” sources out there but no doubt he made huge sums swindling people. That may be something some capitalists do but it is not a main function or goal of the vast majority of them.

      Conservatives fell for Moon’s claim to being an anti-communist but they neglected to notice that he is also anti-capitalism/democracy. (he is actually an opportunist and funded North Korea when he decided it was in his best interests) Moon promotes what he calls “Godism” which, without going into a lot detail, is a form of theocratic government where people who believe in God rule the world as God would want. That would sound Ok to many but... it just so happens that Moon believes he knows God’s will better than anyone in history and thus should be the one tell us what to do. In fact he has said that when he and God are kicking back checking out what Moon has done that God will tell him he is better than "Heavenly Father"(God). Moon believes his job is to stop God from having to suffer when He looks at what a mess the world He created is. I think it was Gorenfeld who put it best when he said Moon is kind of like God's relief pitcher. After Moon dies he claims he will run his organization via the spiritworld so his followers will get to make the rules after he dies.

      Here’s a quote from the 1970s congressional investigation into Korean influence on our country, know as the Fraser Report:

      Moon's strategy is designed to influence a wide range of institutions. “We must approach from every angle of life; otherwise, we cannot absorb the whole population of the world. We must besiege them.”

      In the economic sphere, Moon foresees the emergence of a system which would respond to centralized control: “This system should eventually prevail so overwhelmingly, that even in Japan and Germany, the people will not buy products from their own country, but will buy according to centralized instructions. What kind of system of thought or economy can function to give these centralized instructions?

      Religion is the only system that can do that. So in the future, this system of thought or system of economy will have a close relationship with religious organizations. Our master is going to prepare for this system of economy.”

      But if you believe that capitalism does have at least the intent of being based on the free market which I most certainly do, that isn’t Moon. What he has done to manipulate our political system has nothing to do with either the free market of ideas or any democratic process. Working your members 16 hours a day and paying them 100 bucks a month to swindle money is not capitalism.

      Here is a quote from an article by Louise Bardach, which was intended for publication in Vanity Fair in 1992 but wasn’t published till it made into the 2004 book, Killed, Great Journalism Too Hot to Print by David Wallis. A lot of things get “killed” - Wallis’ compilation also includes a piece by George Orwell.

      Anyway, here’s a quote from Bardach’s article intended for 1992(transcribed not on the net):

      The reverend, who described himself as the Messiah, addressed some 200 staffers, wearing a beige suit and a snug-fitting silk shirt. According to one guest, Moon spoke in a "rapid fire, high pitched peals of oratorical Korean alternating with incomprehensible English," with both languages requiring the translation services of Moon's close ally, Times executive, Bo Hi Pak. Bristling with emotion while thumping the podium, he told a stunned audience that he had already poured a staggering $830 million into the Times. Moreover, he said that he personally raises the $7 million dollars each month needed to keep the paper afloat.

      If Moon's figures are correct, they are a record-shattering sum for the newspaper business, surprising previous estimates of $35 million to $50 million annual losses for the paper. Time Life pulled the plug on the Washington Star when its losses hit $30 million while the Dallas Herald owners closed their doors after less than $20 million seeped into the red. ....snip....

      Charlotte Hayes, who wrote a hilarious and snarky memoir in The New Republic entitled "I was Moonie Gossip Columnist," still laments the loss of the generous expense account she had at the paper. "This is on the Rev.," Hayes, a thoroughbred conservative, would tell sources as she lunged for meal checks. "The Times," she added drolly, "is a place for free market conservatives to escape the free market."

      "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

      by moonboots on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 12:39:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Great diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda

    It's something to see when there's actual evidence about the hypocrisy of organized religion. I knew Moon was still alive, he has a whole floor of some building in NY as a baby factory dosen't he?

    I figure that the only reason that his efforts aren't reported are racism. If Moon was a white American exploiting Korea and Japan for american politics like he was, he'd have 150+ schools named after him. But no, he's Korean, so they gotta keep it hush hush, don't get krazy Korean guy in the paper!!! Spot on original assesment;

    "Though I am not citizen, I have brought bags and bags of cash from overseas into the USA to manipulate your political structure - I do this to bring about my world vision. You are too damn naive to see it or care; you will laugh at me or ignore me, so I will get away with it. I will push you to a right wing, theocratic, homophobic, authoritarian governance and I will do this right before your eyes and you will not see for you are blind to my efforts. In fact, the conservative movement in America, the Christian right, who as the Messiah I am here to raise up to control your government, will help me. You will all help me, either directly or by your silence."

    He's getting away with it, and everyone and their dog who can't see farther than their own life is buying it, stealing the playbook, and running with it.

    /And ya, I don't need religion to see farther than my own life.
    //Anger real, snark self medication

  •  Informative post --- recommended. (3+ / 0-)

    At least one Japanese film director has satirized something that seems a lot like the Unification Church. He was Juzo Itami, and his detective comedy  A Taxing Woman Returns has his heroine, a tax inspector, trying to unravel a skein of corruption involving a religious cult whose members are forced into various dubious undertakings, a construction company whose ventures are used to launder the cash, yakuza, …

    I never thought it was all that fictional.

  •  A timely warning that includes the netroots too (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Coherent Viewpoint, moonboots

    We mustn't let our guard down here either. Web communities and media projects are just as susceptible to this kind of manipulation.

    Consider the editing of the Sun Myung Moon article on Wikipedia. The article's content has been heavily influenced, if not controlled outright, by a self-appointed gatekeeper known by the userid "Ed Poor" (comments are signed using an alias "Uncle Ed"). According to his own declaration, "Uncle Ed" has been a follower of the Unification Church since 1977.

    •  Does look like they control the UC wiki pages (0+ / 0-)

      Excellent observation lotlizard.

      I am not very familiar with how Wiki works but the last time I read the UC page it was pure UC propaganda. Even when they acknowledged something Moon did wrong it was spun like the Moon organization wrote it. "Moon was put in jail, but, but, but..."

      I noticed from your link this little jewel from Ed Poor.

      1. Rev. Moon never said Jesus "failed" but that John the Baptist failed.

      Sheesh! Where do people GET this stuff? --Uncle Ed.

      You can find many references to Moon saying Jesus failed. In fact, they don't just say Jesus failed, requiring Moon's effort to accomplish what He failed to do, they teach it via youth games.

      From UC News April 2005

      Children's Workshop and Youth Workshop in Winston Salem, NC

      By Rev. Mike Lamson

      From March 18-20, 2005 a children's workshop was organized in Winston Salem, North Carolina. The workshop focused on helping children from 6- 11 years old learn the "Family Pledge"...

      Over the three days we all learned a lot about Fathe'rs(sic) vision for us to become engrafted into his family....

      After lunch we went outside for an "activity pertaining to the messiah's course". This activity involved groups of two people washing and getting their feet washed. The idea was to humble yourself before someone else by washing their feet. It seemed those getting their feet washed were more embarrassed than those washing.

      The next activity was "the Crucifixion." We all got crucified! One person at a time would pick up a wooden cross and run around a storage shed once and then meet on the hill where everyone would ridicule and throw things. We all felt some heartistic pain. After that we had a human wheelbarrow contest by team. The next activity had us laying firewood logs on top of each other to reach a certain height, which represented the foundation for the messiah to come. At our first success Takamitsu just pushed them over and informed us that Jesus failed and we have to start all over again. Later we went to a large field where the staff had hidden small scraps of paper with our names on them, representing how hard it was for True Parents to find the principle. Some kids found their paper and some did not.

      Night fell, and we went inside where we had dinner and watched a musical about Father's life. Then we started a 500-piece jigsaw puzzle just for fun, which we were unable to finish that night even though we stayed up till 1:00 am trying.

      The Moon organization wrote the book on spin.

      Poor doesn't appear to be working that discussion page now. However, he is listed on the staff list for Moon's own Wiki, the "Encyclopedia Project" which is part of Moon's Universal Peace Federation.

      from

      http://www.upfencyclopedia.org/...

      IT Consultant and Wikipedia liaison: Ed Poor

      "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

      by moonboots on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 07:19:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, I heard Jesus failed his mission... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        moonboots

        directly from the horse’s mouth.  Well, as translated by Col. Pak or David Kim.  It was during a small dinner (20 or so) at Belvedere.  Really, Moon doesn’t have too high of an opinion of Jesus.  Plus, he said once I was blessed and had children, I would be “higher” than Jesus.  

  •  Confessions of a former mooniebat... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laurak, moonboots

    Actually, Moon’s aggressive move into U.S. political affairs started well before the mid-80s.  I know first-hand; I was part of it.

    Note: I wrote this out in Word I guess as a trip down memory lane.  Sorry, it became extremely long.  Moonboots might read it through due to apparent interest in the Unification Church.  To the possible one or two others who might see this, you could substitute any other religious group or cult.  And some wonder why there should be a strict separation of church and state.)  

    I joined the UC in the early 70s when in my state it was known as The Unified Family.  Very catchy name just after the 60s.  Typically, I was recruited while in college.  We all lived communally then in what were called centers.  A bizarre few years in my life.

    Along with some others who didn’t have the 1000-mile-stare or mentality and were at least somewhat competent, I rose through the ranks.  Argued for and helped make the transition from mall parking lot type fundraising to businesses.  Then came politics.

    1974 was a hell of a year for me, and for the country.  Nixon was sinking fast due to Watergate.  I wasn’t too sad as I cast my first presidential vote for McGovern.  But now I was in the Unification Church and Father loved Nixon.  I found myself fasting on the capitol steps with hundreds of other Moonies brought in from around the country to show support for Nixon.  We were to chant “God needs Nixon” over and over.  Fortunately, the koolaid never completely took me over.  I changed my chant to “Nixon needs God” and the few near me who could hear that probably just assumed the fasting was scrambling my brain.  I was so disgusted being there.

    But more was to come.  As I was reasonably competent, I was given a political assignment.  I was told to get a Republican congressman elected to the U.S. Senate.  The congressman still supported Nixon, and more importantly, Father wanted friends in Congress who would support Heavenly Father’s plan.  Uh huh.  This was to be a test case to find out if in sparsely populated states, the UC could roll in (of course under other names) with manpower and money to strongly affect congressional elections.  

    I was too stunned to even be disgusted.  Don’t ask why, but I accepted the assignment.  Not because turning down leadership of a directive from Father would have been a career dampener.

    I think I took it to prove to myself just how corrupt and dangerous the UC had become.  Also in the internal politics of the church (which also disgusted me), I wasn’t judged very favorably by some.  I wasn’t on message.  So since few thought there was a snowball’s chance in hell of a non-incumbent Republican (very dirty word in 1974) winning a  Senate seat that year, a big failure on my church resume would be welcomed by a few.  So another part of the reason I took the assignment was so I could at least think (if not say) F***U if somehow I proved them wrong.  Okay, I was young and not thinking straight.  I was allowed to pick my own team, given full autonomy, and money was no problem.

    I rolled into New Hampshire in spring of 1974 along with nearly 200 (as I recall) of God’s soldiers in Dodge maxivans (Father’s fav at the time for the troops) and suitcases of cash.  I approached the congressman’s campaign staff in an effort to coordinate with them, but was essentially told to stay out of the way; this was work for the grownups.  Fine with me.  

    We worked 18/7 but had things happening around the clock.  In a matter of days, my troops had virtually the entire state bumper stickered.  When they would roll into parking lots, they sorta forgot to ask permission from car owners if they weren’t around.  I thought I had paid extra for bumper stickers that could be easily peeled off, but later found the supplier apparently had a different definition of “easy.”  Oops.  

    Teams would roll into a city or town in late night or early morning hours (less people around to say No) to staple or tape flyers everywhere.  Local news began reporting about the odd blizzard of bumper stickers and flyers seemingly appearing all around the entire state simultaneously.  The buzz wasn’t entirely favorable, but anyone will tell you almost any buzz is good buzz.  

    To keep the chatter going, we went lower key buying radio ads and other advertising.  Created events, mailings, etc.  All of it under a large number of sham names used by the Unification Church like the Freedom Leadership Foundation, etc.  Anything other than Unification Church.  Which was okay since we were doing God’s work for the messiah.  We sort of saw ourselves as God’s special ops forces conducting missions behind enemy lines.  LOL  

    When the congressman’s campaign people found we were behind this stuff, they called us asking “Who are you guys?”  Since I didn’t want to talk to them again, I designated a liaison who essentially told them we were college groups of young Republicans.  We gave them vague answers as to our identity and funding, and they didn’t push too hard for answers. The congressman’s poll numbers were rising.    

    We were rocking.  Then Moon called for demonstrations again in Washington to support Nixon as the impeachment proceedings were getting ugly.  I decided to take the team to Washington for a break.  Yeah, driving to D.C. to fast for three days was a break.  

    The congressman learned we were there.  When it was time to break our fast, he arranged for a private dining room in the Capitol Building.  He wanted to meet me and rally the troops.  Now we mattered.  Great.  When we got to the dining room, the clueless doofus had a huge buffet of all the foods you would/should not break a fast with and just about nothing else other than water.  Super fatty prime rib, piles of fried chicken, heavy desserts, etc.  

    I told the congressman we would have to leave so the group could get something they could eat and drink, but maybe we could meet another day.  But he wanted to talk now.  He ordered a couple of his staff to immediately get soups, juices, and anything else we might like ASAP, and also get a doctor to the dining room for any feeling a little ill after the fast.  It was kinda cool seeing a congressman jump through hoops to brown nose  a young 20-something...me.

    Once that was done, the congressman invited me and my liaison to join him in a private room.  Rich wood paneling, deep leather chairs, dark lighting, etc.  All that was missing was cigar smoke.  But he did offer me a drink, and even though as good Moonies we didn’t drink, I couldn’t pass up the image of a 20-something in a cheap suit with a Scotch in his hand telling the congressman what he would and wouldn’t do for him.  LOL.

    Turned out he had known for a while we were really Moonies, but he was okay with that.  No need to rock the boat.  He was gushing about how effective we were; what a bright future I and the Moonie sitting next to me had in politics; blah, blah, blah.  His most recent poll numbers showed not only was he continuing to rise, but he had a solid shot at getting the Senate seat in this hellish of all possible years for a Republican.  He was pleasantly surprised and calling us great friends.  

    Then he dropped a bombshell.  To us anyway.  In a day or two he was going to announce he was no longer supporting Nixon and would also call for his impeachment.  Political expediency.  Take an issue away from his opponent.  

    When he told me that, I smiled while thinking “Great, now we’ll dump your ass.”  After the meeting I reported his intentions.  After three days of chanting “God needs Nixon,” I expected to hear something along the lines of close down the campaign operation.  I mean, the troops were being told Satan was attacking trying to force Nixon’s impeachment or resignation.  We wouldn’t keep trying to help someone who had now crossed over to Satan’s side.  Would we?

    Yeah, color me stupid.  I was that naïve once. After a couple of hours I was told to take the team back to New Hampshire.  Father wanted friends in Congress HE could count on.  That was what mattered.  I heard loud and clear.  

    Anyway, to wrap up this novella, I returned to New Hampshire.  After a little while there, I drove to an airport leaving the UC and the campaign behind.  The congressman?  Later that year he won the race, before he lost it in a recount.  The mess resulted in it being called the closest Senate race in U.S. history at the time.  Later I heard the spin in the church was that Satan invaded me causing the loss of the race.  But that privately they were really excited and wanted to try that again.  Don’t know if they ever did; I closed that chapter in my life.  We all do stupid things sometimes.  

    Conclusions?  If someday I read there is proof Moon had bought and paid for a congressman or senator or two in low population states, I would not be surprised. That was the plan thirty years ago.  Hopefully, though, the guy is just a very, very insignificant player continuing with his huge delusions of grandeur.  Is Moon behind or partly the reason by some politicians toward religious extremism?  I don’t know about that, but Moon sure wouldn’t mind seeing the planet Rapture ready.  God vs Satan and all that.  

    On what could be a good or bad note, in the summer of ’74 I saw that it isn’t just a possibility, but a reality that a relatively small group of dedicated people can affect elections.  Actually, that’s how this country has been getting screwed over for the last six years.  But you can change it back.

    Oh yeah, just like Nixon, I hate Bush.  Moon isn’t on my Xmas card list either.

  •  moonsucks, thanks for the travel back in time (0+ / 0-)

    Please correct or add to anything I say here, these statements are just what I have observed and believe to be the case but you were there and I am most interested in your take on any of this...there are a couple sites still linking to this post but I am afraid the way Kos is structured we may not get many who would certainly find your memories of great interest. They have been and gone and thus may not see this. I will email a few I know and let them know about your posting though.

    Very interesting experiences for you and thanks so much for taking the time to share them. You were there when Moon was sharpening his political grappling hook. I liken him to one of those toy cars that hits a wall, turns and then keeps going, never stopping and of course, always with his own plan in mind.

    I didn’t mean to make it sound like Moon began his political side in the 80s though I do think his efforts in that regard took off in the 80s when he was openly accepted by the conservative movement. Rooted in those years of mainstreaming by the right, he is now working on the Black caucus through his ALCL front. He is all over the planet today thanks to our nation helping him gain face. I believe Moon would have withered on the political vine had the right not embraced him, his money and his propaganda paper in the 80s. I have seen video of Bo Hi Pak saying he and Josette Shiner met Reagan in Toledo during the 80 campaign and Reagan told Pak that he “needed Rev. Moon’s prayers” and “support.” I think that is when our nation took a very wrong turn, not because of Reagan as much as the right’s acceptance of Moon’s influence. Moon was invited to the Reagan Bush inaugural in 1981 and that was like telling the “new” right which has blossomed into today’s horror that it was OK to do business with Moon. His propaganda paper was quickly accepted in 1982. I agree with Steve Hassan’s statement here:

    http://www.fair.org/...

    "Conservative politics is glad to have a voice through the Times, but ultimately it has nothing to do with conservatism. It has to do with fascism."

    I know Moon has sent out his troops working for particular candidates but I think he has spent his money, promoted individuals, and created the fronts to mold the big picture. That is what the Washington Times supplied - the backbone to the hard right in the print media and has helped his larger vision along. Rarely hear Rush and talk radio quote the National Review in past years but the WT is a staple.

    The WT will bellow “editorial independence” but even though that has not been the case over the years, it is a huge head fake. The reason Moon created the paper imo was to turn the nation right, create an environment for the theocrats to flourish. Also, to gain he and his organization influence here and on a world wide basis. The WT really tilled the field for the theocrats in the USA. Point is, Moon doesn’t have to tell Pruden or Blankley what to write, they are on auto pilot and all he has to do is fund their opinions being foisted onto the body politic. Today their opinions are basically everyday conservatism, not the case 25 years ago. Many things are not as they were 25 years ago before Moon became a partner to the right. Politics today skews grossly towards Moon’s vision of a right wing, theocratic, homophobic, authoritarian America. Goldwater Republicans are gone or of ZERO influence.

    The American Freedom Coalition worked state to state but again it was working toward the big picture by gathering the Christian right for political power. This is something I find most don’t understand. The press is conditioned to look for the cancelled check and then the corresponding bill or law which passed as part of some quid pro quo when trying to see “influence.” I don’t see Moon’s efforts in that manner. I think, again though he is not opposed to working with an individual candidate who might help him drive us further right and theocratic, he doesn’t need any one politician. He has been a big backer of the Bush family but I think he would spit them out in a flash if it suited his purpose.

    The same can be said of his “anti-communism” BS. When the time came, he funded North Korea, for in the long run he wants a united Korea to be his “sovereign” nation and he sees the potential of being on the ground floor economically in Nk if and when NK opens up. It is always about him and his organization leading the direction of world events.

    I do know Moon started before the 80s, laying groundwork and also, too many liberals also have looked the other way or helped him either directly or by their silence. The Fraser committee, though they did not have the power to indict, they did lay it out and made the recommendation that just about every branch of government should unite in investigating his organization because Moon’s fronts were coming at every area of our society. The Carter administration didn’t pick up that ball and when Reagan got in office, he not only didn’t investigate or try to make the Moon organization fall under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, which it obviously should have, but they openly worked with Moon and his fronts.

    I also didn’t mean this post to be an endorsement of Soros. I think any billionaire pumping cash into our political system should be scrutinized but I find the right’s treatment of U.S citizen Soros amazing, given the fact that conservatives would NOT control our government without Moon’s...SUN MYUNG MOON’S BILLIONS from overseas which shows conservatives to be grossly uninformed or massive hypocrites and frauds... or all three.

    From my reading - it appears Moon tried to select the best to gather into his web. If it is any consolation, I guess you should take that as a big compliment that they chose you to use. As one poster pointed out above, and I am sure, most members are nice well meaning people, just mislead. It must take quite a dose of Heavenly Deception for the leaders to rationalize conning the folks in Japan, targeting widows.

    I don’t have any respect for the leaders of the group or heads of his fronts. Pruden was asked by Brian Lamb on C-span about the funding of the paper and Pruden just shuffled by the question with a reply that he didn’t get involved in that. Imo that shows what kind of principles he has. Given Moon’s history and the fact that anyone can google and find out about the money swindled from the Japanese...well, it says a lot about the  Prudenizer.

    Also, note that the money from Japan and these swindles isn’t the only source of mysterious Moon money but the taking advantage of widows in Japan by the Unification Church is not that hard for anyone to find out about, including Pruden and Blankley.

    This may sound odd to bring up but...I always wanted to ask, did any central figures or his leaders ever attempt to recruit the disabled? I am sure there are some members who are disabled now, but I mean in the early days here, did they ever try to recruit the disabled? I understand some in the mobile fundraising teams (MFT) would fake it in wheelchairs to help bring in the cash but I never saw any references to anyone say, blind or actually in wheelchairs from the beginning.

    Maybe they did, but if not, I find that as revealing as the fact that Moon preaches “exchange marriage” where he matches people of different nationalities in his never ending effort to mold the world into a hodge podge under his influence, yet he has NEVER matched any of his own children to anyone but other Koreans.

    Check out the next to the bottom quote box in this dairy. Sound like how Moon operates?
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    moonsucks: Father wanted friends in Congress who would support Heavenly Father’s plan.  Uh huh.  This was to be a test case to find out if in sparsely populated states, the UC could roll in (of course under other names) with manpower and money to strongly affect congressional elections.

    A lot of people give Pat Robertson credit for figuring out you don’t need to be a majority to rule America. Moon was on that years before Pat. Is this how the old devil put it?

    If we can turn three states of the United States around, or if we can turn seven states of the United States to our side, then the whole United States will turn. Let’s say there are five hundred sons and daughters like you in each state. Then we could control the government. You could determine who became Senators and who the Congressman would be.

    I understand he had the math figured and that if we had more states it would be easier for him. Keep in mind folks, this is an organization claiming tax exempt status as church. I agree with Allen Tate Wood who said during the congressional investigation that it is not a church but a political organization.

    moonsucks:  

    The mess resulted in it being called the closest Senate race in U.S. history at the time.

    Ten votes? I’d say so.

    The scotch part was nice; did the congressman ever get you a cigar?

    "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

    by moonboots on Fri Aug 11, 2006 at 04:06:25 PM PDT

    •  No, never got a cigar. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Halcyon, moonboots

      I only met with the congressman once which was during that meeting in the Capitol Building.  I had invitations to socialize with him, but didn't care to.  He did offer me a job on his staff, though.  Of course it was predicated on his winning the Senate race.  Guess he was trying to motivate me.  Real smooth.  

      You asked a few questions.  It’s been thirty-two years since I was in the UC.  I can only answer for what I was involved in or saw first-hand up to mid 1974.  Some in the church kept in contact with me after I left the group, and some contacted me after they left.  I’ll tell ya, some of it was really weird crap.  Sometimes titillating stuff like the rituals after being matched and how a blessed marriage is consummated.  Thank God I missed that.  Sometimes telling me about the strange things they personally heard Moon say or what his kids had done.  Perfect children; yeah, right.  

      I’ve had and have a nice life since I left the group so I have no Unification Church demons to chase.  Haven’t looked to see what they’ve been doing in years.  Actually, I had some very positive experiences in the church.  You can see what you’re capable of accomplishing when you put full, sustained effort into the goal.  I met some amazing people.  Most of them women, very smart and strong willed.  Unfortunately, the church attracted a number of men who were real jerkoffs.  Probably due to the environment.  Moon didn’t have a high opinion of women.  Since Eve was responsible for the Fall, they were to serve men.  Indemnity and all that.

      If you’re male and get off on power and control, the UC would be pure bliss if you’re a leader.  At least the way it was structured while I was there.  Your orders or even suggestions are carried out without question.  You’re their center.  God is speaking through you.  

      Here’s an example.  Before my campaign team left NH for DC, I told them we would shut down at 5pm around the state, get together in one location for a really good group dinner then rest and relax some before taking off for DC later.  A huge treat.  Taking care of some business, I was a little late getting to the hall.  Everyone had their plates full, but no one had started eating because I wasn’t there.  I felt so bad.  Though everyone was sitting on the floor, I was directed to a soft armchair.  Immediately one of the women brought me a plate.  Because I wasn’t into it, I had someone else say prayer.  Then while I’m eating, I’m looking out over 100 people sitting pointed in my direction.  A few had the 1000-mile-stare but most were just looking at me calmly smiling.  Freaked me out.  I tried to get some chatter going, but one young woman asked me to talk to them as they hadn’t gotten copies of Master Speaks in a while.  They all went quiet.  My God, they thought God was going to speak through me.  Don’t get me wrong, there were plenty of members still on planet Earth, but sometimes...

      That was intoxicating to some.  I heard of some real abuses.  The only things I actually saw were fairly minor.  Moon got off on it sometimes.  Once I saw him toss a coin into a pool then Pak pointed to a small group of “leaders” saying “Who will first get the coin for Father?”  In full suits, they all immediately jumped in.  He liked to do those kinds of things.  Moon’s children were real assholes taking advantage of members.

      Sorry for the rambling.  Where was I?  Oh yeah, you ask if the church actively recruited handicapped members.  Well, during my time in the church I went though centers in CA, throughout New England and headquarters in DC and NY.  Talked with center directors, state and regional leaders and higher.  Never heard any saying handicapped people should be recruited, nor do I recall seeing any members with anything other than minor disabilities.  There may have been some, but no organized effort to increase their number.

      If anything the opposite was true.  Money spent on members was kept to a minimum.  Most only saw a dentist if in real pain.  If medical attention was needed, often they went on Medicaid or something like that.  That ticked me off.  Was one of the reasons that led to my leaving.  I knew one woman who had been one of their first 100 members in this country.  She developed a form of leukemia and some complications.  It was put to her that it would be best if she returned home to her family.  They didn’t want to pay any of her medical expenses plus she wouldn’t be productive.  When I complained, I was told it was best for the church and that she would get some spiritual dispensation.  Bullshit.  

      MFT teams using wheelchairs or people that were blind or, most likely, simply appeared to be?  Oh yeah.  The MFTs were bizarre, especially the Japanese teams brought in to roam the country constantly fundraising.  They would lie, cheat, and I wouldn’t be surprised even steal to get the maximum number of dollars for Father.  But handicapped?  Not likely.  It wouldn’t fit with their way of working.  Very fast, very long hours, and non-stop aggressive.

      I had heard rumors stories about the Japanese MFTs but thought they were exaggerated.  Until I was directed to meet up with one  while I was running my campaign operation.  At one point, Washington didn’t want to send more suitcases of cash so they contacted a MFT operating in Boston telling them I would pick up their money.  The Japanese leader of that team spoke passable English.  He gave me two big duffle bags of cash (the bulk in  $1s and $5s, but still) then curious I asked if I could watch one of his teams in action.  He was proud to do so.  

      We took off in one of the product resupply vans to where they were operating.  They were in the Combat Zone at night.  Boston zones all adult/porn businesses into an area locally called the Combat Zone, or at least they did in the 70s.  The Japanese guy said it was a very good place to fundraise.

      The Japanese girls would go into adult toy or bookstores, sleazy pickup bars, and even  theaters to sell to men who were quite embarrassed to see “church” girls asking for donations.  I saw my first porn while on duty for the UC.  The girls were amazingly aggressive conveniently not understanding any English if it involved “No.”  A lot of the customers in these places had cash in their pockets and would quickly give them a $5 or $10 just to get rid of them.  He introduced me to his best producer.  She averaged over $400 a day.  In ‘70s dollars.  Seven days a week.  

      Bad thing was I saw some of the girls would sometimes use a brochure for reluctant buyers.  I looked at one of them.  Everything in it was a lie.  It said the money was going to needy children’s programs.  I hated that kind of thing and was one of the reasons I was arguing for the move into businesses.  I was naïve thinking they could clean up their act.

      One of the rationales used that it was acceptable to lie (Heavenly Deception) while fundraising was that if a person gave money, they would be rewarded in Spirit World.  You were doing them a favor lying to them.  Damn, now that I think about it, Bush uses that logic.

      So yeah, like Bush today, the Moonies of the ‘70s would lie and cheat.  I never saw steal, but it wouldn’t surprise me given the mental gymnastics were in place to justify that too.

      You directed me to a quote in another diary asking if that sounded correct.  Is Moon hands on?  Oh yeah.  Or those very close to him he trusts like Pak and David Kim while I was there would check on things and report to him.  He only trusts the Koreans, and I had the sense he would verify even them sometimes using others.  

      Geez, this is the most I’ve thought of the UC combined over the past ten years.  BTW, when I heard Bush was going to move some social services spending to faith based organizations, the UC was the first thing I thought off.  No doubt Moon would want some of those millions.  Probably under multiple names.  Same with AIDS spending in Africa.  Moon has really, really gotta love this administration.  And no doubt they love him too.          
                                     
      This got way too long again.  Got things to do.

      •  One last thing before I'm done. A warning... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        moonboots

        to Democrats.  Geez, maybe I’m seeking absolution.  LOL  

        Now that I’ve been thinking of the political landscape back in 1974, it seems like déjà vu all over again now in 2006.  There are an amazing number of parallels.  You ignore the past at your peril.  Don’t get smug.

        Take my little campaign experience I’ve now written about.  At one point I brought my staff together for a strategy meeting.  I pointed out that now there was a Republican president (Nixon) the majority hated and wanted impeached.  They thought he was a crook.  People were still very tired of an unpopular war (Vietnam) that had recently ended a lot were now associating with Nixon and Republicans.  Republicans were running for cover.  Given all that, I asked, how do we get this Republican dog elected who still supports Nixon?

        The first thing I decided to do was get the congressman far greater name recognition in NH.  Even if it meant pissing off some people who found they had an unwanted bumper sticker on their car.  Then we had to associate something good to the name.

        I can’t take total credit, or discredit, but a woman on my staff came up with the idea I ran with.  She thought we needed to keep it simple.  Leaving out all the UC doctrine (Adam, Eve, male, female, yin/yang, etc.), she said women’s greatest concern is for the future of their children.  Men want to think of themselves as the strong protector to achieve that future, even if they’re not.  

        The Cold War (think GWOT now) was still in full bloom, so we went with a general but strong anti-communism theme.  That was for the guys and somewhat for the women.  More for them we had plenty of pictures of the congressman smiling with family outdoors.  Just the kind of blissful family they imagined for themselves, and that he wasn’t a whackjob seeking to blow up the planet.  I know, cheesy.  No nuancing how the congressman was different than Nixon.  Played down Republican and no mention of Nixon at all.  And we kept repeating and repeating that in radio and print.  The congressman’s campaign people did whatever television they did.

        Damn, I was Rove before Rove.  That is a REALLY disgusting thought.  At least mine weren’t full-on attack ads against the opponent.  Politics were a little more civil back then.  But that shit still works.  

        Moon probably really loves the current polarized political landscape.  It fits with him, his Divine Principles, and the whole mentality of the church seeing things as solely good vs. evil, everything black/white, etc.  Like Bush, Moon is a real asshole.  

        •  Moonsucks, I really appreciate you taking the tim (0+ / 0-)

          (I tried to tack this to your previous comment but have had some trouble, hope this post doesn't show up like 50 times. haha)

          Glad to hear you haven’t had any residual affects from the experience. I have read members berate former members who are critical of the organization as not being able to “get over it” as a way to demean their criticisms. A year or so ago one member was working to set up a CARP (Moon’s youth gathering unit) chapter at Binghamton University. There was an article in the school newspaper and the current member replied in a letter about how CARP wasn’t a recruiting front. This is absurd, there were articles in CARP News quoting Moon saying in essence, “you gig the kids and they will bring the parents” and stories of Hyun Jin(Moon third son and likely heir) who ran CARP asking the members what’s the best way to use the group to recruit.

          One former member wrote a letter to the paper saying, among other things, that when he was in the group they were very deceptive. The current member who was trying to start the chapter replied that he was sorry this former member hadn’t gotten over it. I mean, the man took a few minutes to write a letter to help keep the school from falling for the deception, so they try to paint him as unbalanced. Anyone who has been affected by this group has every right to still be troubled by it, imo. They, in essence, inject themselves into people’s lives. I know one man whose wife was snagged by the group and though he did become a member it certainly affected his whole family life and he has every right to feel bitter.

          I find that today’s conservatism is VERY much like a cult. There are many similarities and I don’t say that with any joy or humor. This “us vs. them” mentality is straight out of the Moon/cult handbook. I think the way the right has demonized all information sources which are not approved of – to the point where their die hard followers discard anything from these sources which is negative about anything conservatives do, has created a form of information control which is HUGE in controlling minds. No media outlet is perfect and I to could go on about them today, but millions on the right have been conditioned not to trust anything which might be negative about their movement that appears on NBC, CBS, ABC, BBC, MSNBC, or in the NYT, the WP, the LATimes ...the list goes on and on leaving them with Rush Limbaugh and Moon’s Washington Times to tell them what to think, at least until recently. Now they have more outlets so they have developed almost a an alternate universe, a universe in which WMD were found and Bush is “doing the right thing.”  The right in America is fed a steady diet of propaganda. I don’t mean “biased” information, I mean propaganda. Now they feed off it. One quotes the other and after that happens a few times it becomes “fact.”

          And you are so right, heavenly deception plays a MAJOR role in the way right operates today. They have been conditioned to believe they and they alone are doing the work of God (sound familiar) and that they and they alone are patriotic. You will hear their propagandists pass on some lie and then say “You won’t hear this in the MSM.” Well, I won’t go into how poor I think the media is in general today and they do many times pick up on the propaganda, but the media also at times does not fall for the lies.  So when they don’t print the latest lie from the right, then the Rush and FOX followers are lead to believe they are being persecuted by what they have been trained to see as the MSM. Toss in that you are the patriotic ones, the ones who God has chosen and from there it is short jump for them to believe that it is OK (heavenly deception) to outright lie and deceive for they are just getting “even” and doing what God would want.

          That is a subject which would require pages and pages, but suffice to say, yes, Bush and conservatism in general operates very Moon/cult like. Moon said that the Korean government learned from his ways, I think that today’s conservatism is very much molded by Moon’s influence and has also “learned from his ways.” Terry Dolan fought Rove for control of the college Republicans. Later he was funded by Moon. Dolan is considered a pioneer in the use of the attack ad. These are the types of people Moon helped infuse their opinions and styles into our politics.

          When Moon ran his NY paper he ordered the staff to dig up dirt on Congressman Fraser.

          Falwell might say that A.L. Williams gave him 15 million and he didn’t have to have Moon’s millions but from what I understand Moon’s money came a very critical time for Falwell. How would it have looked on his resume had he gone bankrupt considering most Christians believe the “Lord will provide.”

          Bo HI Pak.

          For the readers who may not know, Pak was Moon’s number one aid and interpreter for years. Pak, imo, made Moon, carried him on his back. Well, Pak is now in prison for fraud and Moon personally hasn’t lifted a finger to help him though he most certainly could. I have not re-read this whole site in a while but in it they say Pak was caught up in a scam which he was introduced to by church members. I have seen it suggested this was a way to get him out of the way.

          You can read about here(check out the photo gallery):
          http://www.savebohipak.org/...

          Faith Biased Initiative or the Faith Based Vote Buying Scheme?

          The Bush administration and the Republican Party have worked with the Moon organization to tear down the wall between church and state. Think about that. They have worked with the grand theocratic and their political messiah to make us a more theocratic nation. Moon went on what they call the “50 State” or “We will Stand” tour. A better way of describing it would be the “Gold Watch Tour” as that is what Moon handed out and raffled off along the way. During this tour of mostly black churches, Moon told people he was the messiah and his people promoted the Faith Based Vote Buying Scheme. This helped Moon gain credibility with black ministers and has helped him draw many of them into his web. The WT also beamed video of a Faith Based Summit around the country for the Bush/Republican administration.

          You can read about that in this very important article:
          http://www.au.org/...

          I don’t think Moon cares about a little money from the Faith Based thing but being able to promote and gain credibility for his he and his movement, to allow him to recruit with credentials and to help push theocratic was a huge plus for him. It is just ANOTHER way conservative leaders have helped Moon.

          Again, though I don’t think he gives a hoot about small money check this out...John Gorenfeld uncovered a deal in which at one time the CDC had awarded a Moon front the contract to teach AIDS prevention in Africa. In a really strange set of happenings, after JG inquired about it and was told that it was CDC understanding that ONLY this Moon front could handle it, all of sudden they rescinded and said they had found others and all references to Moon’s front kind of fell away. My guess is he is still involved, as you say, under different names.

          Why is that important? Well, at one time the Bush administration said they were going to pump $15 billion into dealing with the AIDS problem in Africa and it is my understanding that they wanted 1/3 of the 15 billion to go to prevention. That would mean there would be a 5 billion dollars slice of pie for Moon if his front were the only group they knew of at the time who could do “prevention.” Also, this money and the US government connection would give Moon a HUGE amount of influence and credibility in Africa, a continent he has already said he would use to get to Europe. Moon really doesn’t need much more of a boost in Africa, the Nigerian president recently asked Moon to use great “influence” to help the continent.

          Read some of that here:
          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          Many of the links are dead now but here is JG post on the abstinence in Africa deal

          http://www.iapprovethismessiah.com/...

          I have to go now, might I suggest you contact Gorenfeld through his site if you have some time, I know he would like to talk to you. The Chicago Tribune recently had an excellent article on Moon controlling the distribution of Sushi in the country - find that here:
          http://www.chicagotribune.com/...

          And the East Bay Express had another excellent article on a Moon preacher being indicted for poaching thousands of protected baby leopard sharks, but other than that, Gorenfeld, on a freelance basis has been it for staying actively on the Moon story which pretty amazing and shows how inept and blind our media actually is.

          Here’s the East Bay story. In it they allude to the likelihood that Moon was aware of the baby shark harvesting operation. There is no doubt about that.

          http://www.eastbayexpress.com/...

          btw, your posts are not too long. Moon is not a soundbite and that is partly why people don't know or understand him, imo. Most people just know about the crowning or they think they have done their part in exposing him by calling it the "Moonie Times" ... there so, so much more.

          I just wish more people would be viewing and learning from your posts. Do touch base with Gorenfeld if you the time. He is reading your posts. Moon said in about 1999 that he had all the groundwork laid and now it was just a matter of organizing it. I believe him and that is what he is doing now. Anyone who can shed light NOW is very important, imo.

          Oh and based on an inflation calculator

          What cost $400 in 1975 would cost $1498.24 in 2005.

          Folks that 1500 bucks a day from ONE person - tax free. geez.

          "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

          by moonboots on Sat Aug 12, 2006 at 02:20:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Correction. (0+ / 0-)

            I messed it up about the man whose wife was recruited. I wrote 'although he "did" become a member', I meant to say "he did NOT become a member"

            "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

            by moonboots on Sat Aug 12, 2006 at 02:51:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Can I talk to you? (0+ / 0-)

          Dear Moonsux,

          I could really use your help researching this stuff for a book. Can you email me at john@gorenfeld.net?

  •  Oh, thank heaven! (0+ / 0-)

    I was always wondering what was wrong in American politics, and finally the light has been revealed. It's Rev. Moon! But that's not the half of it, as you have shown us, he is a creation of the cooperation between the Korean CIA and the Japanese Yakuza/Fascists, so in reality, I have come to know now that all of American politics for the last 40 or 50 years was masterminded by the intelligence organization of a war-devastated third world nation and a man that ran the gambling concession for boat races.

    "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

    I am so thankful to you for finally letting us see reality.

    You know I heard he runs some little angels school or something so he's probably behind that Bohemian Grove thing too.

    •  Spoken like a 'True' Moon follower, ER. (0+ / 0-)

      Bring in the clouds.

      Kind of feel the need to cloud over the main point of my post, ER? I imagine that in the numerous links included in my overly documented post, one can find some information about a couple of the subjects you have attempted to inject, sans maybe the Bohemian Grove(kind of stretch even for you), but what about the main subject of the post?

      You seem to have missed the point of it. The main point - that the Moon organization has been found guilty by the Japanese court system of swindling vast sums of money from the citizens of Japan. That the Moon organization itself admits to bringing much of the money it uses to fund its manipulation of our political system from Japan. That's Moon's x daughter in law attests that bags of cash are smuggled into the country to run the Moon operation here. That the paper Moon brags about using to “influence” America, the paper which has nothing to do with the free market of ideas, has lost billions?

      Why didn’t you call one of my sources, Robert Parry, a "liberal" – did you not think your usual bad mouthing of liberals would fly here?

      I know the Unification Church makes money other ways also, like poaching protected baby leopard sharks, but what about the main subject, swindling money from widows in Japan?

      "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

      by moonboots on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 04:58:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Main Point? (0+ / 0-)

        There's a main point to that long-winded diatribe?

        I figured that the main point was your conspiracy theory that Rev. Moon controls America's politics; adjuncts of that theory are that the money comes from Japanese yakuza and that Rev. Moon is really just a creation of the KCIA; one of the people you cite in your replies as being someone of great respect from you, has already started floating the Bohemian Grove theories. Where the money comes from is just a sideshow for you.

        But let's deal with the 'issues' that you finally managed to state succinctly.

        1. The Japanese court ruling is political in nature and its overall effect is pretty minimal after the decade or more since it was made.
        1. The widow case you cited is one situation in 50 years of activity in Japan, involving tens of thousands of individuals acting as fundraisers, in which a couple of individuals acted overzealously. Pretending that it is a reflection of all our activity is acting like Jim and Tammy Bakker are reflective of all the history of Christianity.

        However, the related issue is still relevant: should people who make religious donations be allowed decades later to decide that their religious beliefs way back when were wrong and ask for their money back?

        1. That missionaries send money to fund church activities, including the start-up of businesses to fund and promote church goals should not be surprisiong. The only surprise perhaps is that instead of American believers funding church activities in foreign nations, it is foreigners funding church activities in the US.
        1. Nan Sook's ghost writer alleges bags of cash, but the only real life testimony of Nan Sook is that she carried the legal amount of cash into the US that was allowed for her and her children. Astonishing revelation.
        1. The basis for your conclusion that WT is losing billions, is an early 90's quote of Rev. Moon that he had spent that much in starting up the WT. Considering the start-up costs covered a decade of labor and distribution costs, and included building a major modern HQ office building and new printing presses in the expensive real estate market of the US capital, it seems like a pretty small investment.

        Answering the sideshows of your circus event:

        Robert Parry isn't a liberal he is a socialist, probably a Marxist, and those of us who are liberal resent you and your ilk perverting the language by co-opting the term.

        The poaching leopard shark thing was one individual's business. He started selling sharks for aquarium owners decades ago when the sharks weren't protected (whether or not there is a need to protect these sharks is another question; there is very little evidence that leopard sharks are in anyway endangered). The regulations changed under him, and he should have gone into something else. That was his bad business decision. It was definitely not a church business.

        •  Nice batch of deceptions for my collection, ER. (0+ / 0-)

          diatribe

          If you don’t like it, leave. It takes some time to expose deceit. The less deceit, the shorter the posts. ha

          When I wrote this diary, I emailed the link to some people and told them to expect you to show up. I told them that was a good news bad news thing. The bad news was that you would come in and sully up the place with straw men, Moon propaganda and statements from the gymnastics center in your head. The good news was that the kind folks here at Kos could see what a real classic Moon rationalizer/deception peddler was like. As a plus they could see the similarities of how today’s conservatives relate to the world like Moon followers - how conservatisms has “learned” from Moon’s ways. To use a Moon term, how “moonized” the right has become.

          I am happy to report that you have come through with flying colors.

          I know debating you is a waste of time for you are conditioned to never accept the reality of the Moon organization’s past and present. For the readers who may still be around, I guess I better expose some of your deceptions at least for a while. Not fun, like poking a stick at a toothless dog.

          Sadly you will never see how ridiculous and transparent things like your claim to being a “liberal” are for the reality based community. The line about today’s liberal, who aren’t much left of Barry Goldwater, shows how far today’s right has gone in redefining our nation. But that is what groups like Moon’s and now today’s moonized conservatism do, it’s called language control. If you think your claim of being a liberal elicited anything more than laughter from all but a few trolls here, you are wildly off the mark. Nobody but conservatives still buy that bs. Your movement will not be happy until we become an extreme right authoritarian, homophobic, theocratic planet. Saying Robert Parry is “probably a Marxist” shows you to be a good little Moon followers, sort of a cross between Joseph McCarthy and Revilo P. Oliver.

          ER, I know I am a different sort for you, someone who acknowledges Moon has been successful in manipulating our nation and also that he is still the head of a deceptive movement that is pushing the nation off its moorings. Kind of puts you in a bind because you are used to people saying he is of no count and then you talk about how great the group is. Or someone who says you are manipulating our nation’s politics, then you go into the “how could a poor little old Korean man do that” routine. But don’t just make stuff up as if I said something in your feeble attempt to paint me as a ‘conspiracy theorist” or something I am not just so you can rationalize away what I say. Anyone who reads the links in my post knows what I am saying is backed by historical fact.

          I think I have read about two paragraphs about the Bohemian Grove in my life and have never associated Moon with it. He may be, but I haven’t said so. I know you desperately need to turn this into a discussion about subjects like Moon’s ties to the KCIA, because you have all those stock deceptions ready to throw out and cloud the story. I consider the KCIA charge a distraction like the crowning. When it comes to Moon and his organization’s ties to the KCIA over the years, I do agree with two people. Moon, who says he isn’t so small as to simply be KCIA, he’s after the world. Also, Michael Hershman, who was a lead investigator for the Fraser committee, and who summed it up nicely in a 2000 BBC documentary “The Emperor of the Universe”:

          Narator: So there was no doubt to you that the KCIA and Moon were hand in hand?

          Hershman: There was no doubt.

          I do believe congressional investigators before I believe the Moon organization which is famous for deceit. Watch some people discuss a little of that here.

          You “figure” that I am saying Moon “controls” the government. You “figure” wrong. That’s not how he operates and you know it. He does his thing through his fronts, promoting individuals and funding people who will move our nation right and theocratic, which are always his goals. He creates fronts to gather the religious right for political power; he funds the theocrats like Falwell and others. He created and funded the Washington Times because it drives the country right and makes fertile the political climate for theocrats.

          As a long time follower of Moon’s put it:

          The creation of that newspaper and the following it has gained through talk-radio and conservatives nationwide has contributed to fundamental change in the United States.

          That’s true.

          I said he has had more to do with political direction of our nation than anyone. I stand by that statement and if anyone reads the links they will come to the same conclusion. Through his fronts and billions of swindled dollars, he has influenced the direction of our country more than any individual. As I said in the post, he outspent the recognized sugar daddy of the right, Scaife, many times over. But you keep telling folks I said something else, keep that straw flying.

          The Washington Times - a billion in “start up costs”? haha You are conditioned to rationalize anything aren’t you? How long do “start up costs” go on, 25 years?

          You’re not trying to act like the paper is now or ever will make a dime are you? Moon admitted he had to bring in $7 million a month for his propaganda unit. Joseph Farah who worked for the paper estimated the amount non-citizen Moon has spent on the WT at $4 billion. I think most people not conditioned to distort reality to cover for the group would agree with current and former member’s estimates.

          From 2002 WP:

          As of this year, Moon and his businesses have plowed about $1.7 billion into subsidizing the Times, say current and former employees.

          Never been anything like it in history and you know it. The Christian Science Monitor loses money but nothing like Moon’s propaganda unit. And most of, if not all, the money for the CSM comes from the USA. The Mormons, Dessert News doesn’t lose 50 million a year decade after decade and is more like a church bulletin for Utah compared to Moon’s paper. There is nothing like it, never has been. Any paper which was part of the free market of ideas would have closed long ago. I find it rather funny, yet sad, when I hear followers of Moon and people who help him by working at the WT talk about how “successful” the paper is. From a propaganda standpoint it has been, he could sell it tomorrow for it has done its job of pushing America hard right or is that pushed the “second Israel” hard right? From a capitalist or free market standpoint it has been a dismal failure.

          This is not a good sign tossing the WT into the streets.

          As Charlotte Hayes, who worked for the WT also known as the “journalistic farm system” for the right, said in the article, “I was a Moonie Gossip Columnist” about her Moon expense account:

          "The Times," she added drolly, "is a place for free market conservatives to escape the free market."

           
          Has the WT ever done an article thanking the widows in Japan? For that matter, has the North Korean’s News Service thanked them for the all the cash Moon has dumped there to help NK stay afloat?


          So, these were just some rouge elements running the cons in Japan? Blaming rogue elements is a common way of hiding from the truth in the Moon organization, isn’t it? Never “Father’s” fault. Like he had no idea what was being done to rake in billions from the Japanese? That is why the Unification Church had already paid $150 million in settlements by 1996? Moon had no idea why? Read the post again, you might learn some things. So just a “couple of individuals” did this? That is why the courts found the “UNIFICATION CHURCH” responsible? You are either lying to yourself on grand scale or you are conditioned, ER. The only other excuse for you writing these things is that you are simply a liar, and I wouldn’t want to think that about you.

          Spend some time here, see if it is just one old case? Haha

          Missionaries? In Japan? Only people who follow Moon call them that. They are actually people who are sent out to swindle money and are pressured by the brass to raise more and more. The lawyer’s reports go so far as to say the members who pull the cons are as big of victims as those they swindle. No not missionaries, “Victims” I agree would be a better term.

          Since you didn’t read this in my post, let’s take a longer excerpt from the report:

          Among the Japanese followers of the Unification Church (estimated at 20,000 people), over half have quit their jobs, left their families, and are living in a cooperative with followers. All day long, they are forced to do fund-raising by committing illegal acts such as swindling through a fraudulent missionary work and spiritual sales. They are taught to "Believe and die, and live for Sun Myung Moon", and they believe that by deceiving people to come to the church, intimidating people and making them pay money, will save the people and themselves in the spiritual world.

          The problem with the missionary activities of the Unification Church is that they first invite people by hiding their identity as the Unification Church and a religion, and then to do mind control by cleverly threatening.

          Many followers have given up their youth for years by living on a little allowance every month by threatening based on their teachings, and are overworked. While being actors of crimes of spiritual sales, they themselves have become victims of the faith.

          I guess you are figuring that no one is reading the links in the post and you can pass that bs off. Everyone who isn’t paid by or isn’t a follower of Moon’s who has looked at what has gone on in Japan says it is swindling vast sums and only Moon’s followers can rationalize that the higher ups aren’t fully aware of what they are doing to con these people, including conning widows out of their husband’s insurance policies. The figure given in the example, which was a model example of many like cases caused throughout Japan, was over $200,000 US just from the widows’ husband’s insurance policy. This isn’t just some small “donations” which created grumbling from a few members who are filing these suits and you know that as well as the court system in Japan does.

          We are talking about a nation, Japan, where people lose face when they have to go to court and admit they have been taken in like this. Yet by 2001, there were 20,000 claims totaling over $800 million USD and as my post showed the Japanese think that represents only a fraction of the amount swindled. I would like to see some more up to date information on these cons, but you trying to make it sound like these were just a “couple of individuals” or that it has even stopped, is ridiculous.  Fact is the claims continue to pile up.

          In Feb. of 2004 an additional 1044 cases were reported totaling 3.7 billion yen. That’s some 33 million USD in additional claims.

          The Lawyers in Japan are putting a crimp in the Moon organization’s free money cash cow so I expect you to slam “lawyers” next.

          I do understand that the Moon organization is changing its swindling tactics somewhat. Japanese TV this year had an hour long news report about how the organization is now taking Japanese members to Korea so they can flash that new temple at the members to impress them and set up more high pressure fundraising

          The Temple, (read “the hook”) you know, the temple Moon’s medium says is a replica of God’s Temple in heaven in which Moon, with God at his side, will commune back and forth between heaven and earth via as they rule the earth? The one where Moon is going to house his planet manipulation machine, his own United Nations, the Universal Peace Federation? According to the Japanese TV news report the organization cons the Japanese by the busloads into thinking Moon and his organization control the spiritworld and if they don’t want to cause problems for their ancestors they had better buy some trinkets at exorbitant prices or their relatives will suffer. Catholics will take 5 bucks to offset the cost of candles and say a mass for your loved one’s who have passed on, but what the Moon organization does is just revolting. The lineage clean up business is quite the moneymaker.

          Quite a scam the Moon organization has, preying on the cultural vulnerabilities of the Japanese and it continues.

          Youtube had the Japanese TV news video up for while. Sorry you didn’t get to see it. I read a rough transcript of it and it wasn’t pretty. One lady was pushed into buying things like books of Moon’s speeches for over $35,000 and she ended up being taken for over a quarter of million according to the news report.

          Here’s a post by someone who translated a short bit of it. This was when one of those “couple of individuals” was badgering the members to fork over what they owned.

          http://www.occidentalism.org/...

          I found this video on Youtube of a Unification Church preacher sent to Japan from Korea demanding ALL the cash and possessions of the people foolish enough to join the Church. The video is in Japanese, and I have translated the demands for cash below.


          Unification Church preacher: Now, at this time, on this promisory note, WRITE IT ALL! Write your husbands name, your wife’s name, your phone number, your address. Then write the details of all you own.


          This means things in your name, from cars, houses, buildings, rice paddies, fields, WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING YOU OWN!
          DO YOU UNDERSTAND?


          Japanese followers: Hai! (yes)

          Yes, it’s still going on...makes George and Barbara Bush shilling for Moon in Japan during the 90s, helping the Moon organization at ground zero, even more disgusting.

          ”Nan Sook's ghost writer alleges bags of cash” -

          Oh come on ER, read the post, there are two other church members who attested to that and you know darn good and well it is true. But you had to take a stab at Moon’s x-daughter in law anyway you could, didn’t you? Like she didn’t mean a word she said in the book, it was just stuff made up by her “ghost writer.” Is that what you are trying to say? How disgusting. I guess it is kind of hard when you know Nansook was right at the center of the organization for years, having had what? 4 or 5 of Moon’s “sinless son’s” children? Must be awfully hard to keep the rationalizations going that the group is anything more than a deceitful criminal enterprise when you read her book. I can see why you feel the need to attack her credibility – must defend the organization at all costs – reality be damned. She strikes me as extremely credible, very, very honest.

          the only real life testimony of Nan Sook is that she carried the legal amount of cash into the US that was allowed for her and her children.

          So, the rationalization for this one is that she had her little kids with her? So, if you count her kids, if they were with her at the time, then she was allowed up to like $50,000 without reporting it? Haha Come on ER, laugh with me here. Nan Sook sure knew she was breaking the law.

          Also, too bad the limit, even today, is $10,000 and the law reads each PERSON who PHYSICALLY transports” is required to fill out the proper forms. And yes, there was more than just Nansook who saw the bags of cash and YES, anyone who RECEIVES cash exceeding $10,000 from outside of the country is also required to fill out the forms. I am sure the folks at the Manhattan Center who received hundreds of thousands in the shopping bags filled out all the proper forms...or is that since there were a few thousand members at the time, they could have received like $50 million in the shopping bags and not have to report it?

          Gee, you should sell tickets to see x-rays of your head ER, there’s a circus going on in there.

          Here’s a quote from Nansook Hong in the BBC documentary “Emperors of the Universe” that I am sure set the lion tamers in your head cracking their whips. She said before Moon was taken to jail for tax evasion that they would meet at the rock and pray and pray but then she added, “ ...we all knew that it was tax evasion."

          Of course we all know how the Moon organization views its law breaking when it comes to money in particular. As former member Ron Paquette said in the BBC documentary:

          Not paying your taxes, withholding payroll taxes, paying people under the table cash so you didn’t have to pay the government money, that saved Father money, so therefore it was OK. It was doing God’s will because anything that supported Moon or supported the agenda was doing God’s will.

          Thanks for re-confirming that your leader and his organization has brought the cash to fund the group’s political activities in the USA in from overseas.

          Now we come to a real sad bunch of rationalizing. The Moon pastor who has been indicted for poaching protected baby leopard sharks by the thousands.
          The one who took kids out on the boat to show them what life was all about and how it relates to the “Divine Principles.”

          there is very little evidence that leopard sharks are in anyway endangered

          Where did you dig that up? Gosh, does your head hurt? They were PROTECTED by law not because they were necessarily “endangered” but because they didn’t want them to become so. They have limits on how many ducks, deer and many animals that you can take during hunting season, not because they are endangered. Geez, Why don’t you just slide some BS statement in there and try to make excuses for lawbreaking.

          I haven’t studied this much so correct me if I am wrong here, but I understand at least one boat they used was half owned by the “church.” Not just the pastor, Kevin Thompson, was indicted but a member was indicted also. The poaching went on for over decade when it was illegal. They went do far as to label the air shipments as “tropical fish.” In one case, a hundred of the baby sharks died while in transit. They stored the baby sharks and their gear at True World, a main Moon operation. But you are saying that this was a “bad business decision”? Breaking the law for over a decade was a “bad business decision”. Damn, were you up kind of late when you posted that?

          Let’s look at this one: It was definitely not a church business.

          You and I both know that this quote from the East Bay Express article is spot on:

          "You don't do anything in that organization without the okay from your superiors. You don't fart without permission."

          That really sums up how the whole Moon operation works doesn’t it, ER? You know Moon had to be aware of the shark harvesting since it went on that long using UC boats and True World to store the gear and sharks. You know if that was the case, then money from the operation was used to finance church activities. Admit it. The only question left would be about what I did see in one report, that they tore the baby sharks from the mother’s uterus. I imagine you get your spin from the home office on occasion, could you check into that and see if that was true?

          I know that Fraser didn’t have the authority to charge anyone. Instead they proposed that many government agencies band together and investigate the Moon organization. Fraser rightfully wanted the Moon group to register as a foreign agent, which they so obviously are. FARA would have made them report what money they spent and to what purpose. As soon as Reagan/Bush came into office the last thing they wanted to do was to make waves for their sugar daddy. So our nation has never properly dealt with the Moon organization. Sadly, we haven't stood up for our citizens like the Japanese courts - which are trying to deal with the group, as best they can. My hats off to them.

          I have to go. I do want to thank you for your posts, ER. They provide excellent examples of how Moon’s organization rationalizes and twists reality. I have people ask me how they get away with it and your post will serve as a great example to show them how it works, how a follower will make excuses for anything the group does because he believe he is doing God’s will for Moon told him so.

          Now let’s see, how are you going to try and marginalize what I said here? I am somehow unbalanced? That’s always a fave...the lawyers in Japan are liberals or just “lawyers,” the money from the poaching didn’t go for church activities? I am sure you will come up with something. You can’t stop can you? Pretty sad.

          "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

          by moonboots on Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 05:36:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, and one more BIG thanks, ER. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Panda

          I forgot to thank you also for the excellent examples of why the world should be horrified at the prospects of the Moon organization injecting itself into the political structures of countries all over the world. Your posts show that the “fruits’ of Moon’s efforts, the “fruits” of his “Divine Principles” have been to nurture an ideology which allows its followers to rationalize law breaking with ease. Any organization whose ideology conditions its followers to rationalize law breaking as just a “bad business decision” isn’t an organization which should be taken lightly or supported in any manner. A group whose followers toss off swindling hundreds of millions of dollars targeting widows as an act perpetrated by a “couple of individuals” and that the “overall effect” is minimal, shows just how dangerous it is to ignore. No, Jim and Tammy Faye are not reflective of all of Christianity or its history, but they are reflective of Jim and Tammy Faye the same way Moon and his organization are reflective of Moon and the Moon organization.

          Your posts really confirm the worst fears the Moon organization’s critics have expressed for decades. Your critics and many former members say you are taught what is called “Heavenly Deception” which, as I understand it, means you are taught an ideology which says it is OK to lie to the “outside” world because you are somehow trying to save it for God. The Moon organization vigorously denies it teaches this. No matter what you call it, your posts show me that your critics are right and that the denials by the Moon organization themselves are an example of “Heavenly Deception.”

          The prospect of having the Moon organization continue down the road of influencing nation after nation, that it is advising our State Department in any manner, is truly frightening as your posts confirm the deceptive and untrustworthy mindset which is behind the organization. The remotest claim that the Moon organization is somehow creating “God’s Kingdom” or supports “family values” with this mindset should set off alarm bells the world over.

          Quoting the Fraser Report:

          Moon's strategy is designed to influence a wide range of institutions. “We must approach from every angle of life; otherwise, we cannot absorb the whole population of the world. We must besiege them.”

          In the economic sphere, Moon foresees the emergence of a system which would respond to centralized control: “This system should eventually prevail so overwhelmingly, that even in Japan and Germany, the people will not buy products from their own country, but will buy according to centralized instructions. What kind of system of thought or economy can function to give these centralized instructions?

          Religion is the only system that can do that. So in the future, this system of thought or system of economy will have a close relationship with religious organizations. Our master is going to prepare for this system of economy.”

          The world needs to wake up.

          ER, thanks again for those fine examples of Moon's ideology in action.

          "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

          by moonboots on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 08:38:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Moonboots, you are the one twisting the truth (0+ / 0-)

            Much like the purported tax evasion case, in which multiple man-decades of investigative labor and millions and millions of dollars were used to drum up a case for taxes not paid on $7000, you obfuscate with length of diatribe, but not much substance. Like the government's case, finally you have to count on others not really understanding what you are talking about and therefore mistaking your fog for smoke, concluding that since there is so much smoke (fog) there must be a fire somewhere under it. The government used truckloads of documents and charts and wasn't it about six weeks of testimonies to convict Rev. Moon for that piddling few thousand dollars.

            When I wrote this diary, I emailed the link to some people and told them to expect you to show up.

            Total BS.

            I know debating you is a waste of time for you are conditioned to never accept the reality of the Moon organization’s past and present.

            Typical ad hominem attack to attempt to discredit my reply.

            The line about today’s liberal, who aren’t much left of Barry Goldwater, shows how far today’s right has gone in redefining our nation.

            That's pretty funny, but you really shouldn't malign the dead.

            Barry Goldwater was a conservative not a liberal, but he was a lot closer to one than Robert Parry will ever be, even if he is buried next to Goldwater.

            ER, I know I am a different sort for you,

            You're pretty fool of yourself aren't you?

            You are saying that Rev. Moon controls the government, you just don't want to admit it, because it would make you look crazy.

            You brought up the KCIA and the Japanese fascist/yakuza, now you say that it's not important to you.

            I never said you mentioned the Bohemian Grove, I put it up because it is as freakin' crazy as the other stuff you write. I fully expect that you will run with it.

            What I said that I 'figure' was that your sig line is the main point of your rants. Nice try to pretend that it isn't by setting up a straw man about what I figure, but it's pretty meaningless considering that's not what I said.

            As for the $1 billion in WT start up costs, it was claimed by Rev. Moon to be over a billion back around 1990. You have so many claims how much total since the WT was founded that it's difficult to keep track, but let's go with the two consistent claims of about
            $7 million/month for about $1.7 billion total. since that counts over a billion before 1990 and about $700 million since, then that's over about 15 years... hmmm, seems like things are getting better.

            But in reality, you don't know, and you don't know how much of that money is actually to cover other things like start-up and production costs on several magazines and maintaining a website and of course there is the WT foundation.

            You keep going on about widows but its one widow who was fundraised by two individuals. I notice you ignored the question of how if someone donates to a cause they think is worthwhile and years later changes their mind, should the money be given back?

            Why stop there? What if your grandfather donated to the RCC and you don't believe in it? Shouldn't that money have been part of your inheritance?

            You pretend to know I am going to attack lawyers, but why? I believe in profit motive. What's new or unusual about lawyers going after deep pockets that they think are easy marks because of pre-existing prejudice?

            But the real motivation is political... just like it is with you and with Robert Parry and Donald Fraser.

            As for your writings about how the missionaries of Japan are living, your opinions aren't new. It's what people thought of Jesus and his disciples, what St. Francis father thought of his joining the RCC. They are crazy to give up their youth to work for free supporting what they believe in.

            Of course you don't think St. Pancake was crazy, do you?

            You find NanSook credible, and so do I, but not her ghostwriter, and I don't think that the one-sided story of a divorcee and apostate should ever be considered as the gospel truth about their ex-spouse or their ex-religion. Apparently you desparately need to because it confirms your beliefs. I understand that.

            Leopard sharks aren't endangered but they might be (even though there is no evidence that they ever have been)... well, gee, every species on Earth falls in that category. That's so ridiculous an argument its not worth countering.

            Finally, I know Kevin, know when he started the business, how he started the business, and have a fair idea what he did with the money. Your claim to know that it is not his personal business is pretty much all supposition, but again, I understand your desparate need to believe that no one farts in our church without permission, but I do in your general direction... and no one gave me permission to do so.

            •  Nansook? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Panda

              An apostate? From what? I haven't heard of her renouncing Christanity- just "True Father". Is that her Apostasy? And if that is so as you clearly state above, then it is true that Moon and his followers do consider him divine and a religion unto himself.

              Deny it. Go ahead. You follow a guy who claims to be better than Jesus and who God speaks through. And you call Moonboots nutty?

              Jeebus.

              •  Don't recall... (0+ / 0-)

                Don't recall ever calling Moonboots 'nutty.' I said what he wrote and his conspiracy theories are crazy... oh, I won't quibble. If you think he is nutty then I will have to agree.

                Seems you don't know the meaning of apostate, suggest you read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                Our faith believes that it is the logical fulfillment of Christianity and New Testament prophecy, in the same way that Christianity sees itself as the logical fulfillment of Judaism and Old Testament prophecy.

                We consider all people to be children of God and in that sense to have potential divinity, but consider no man to be God, including Jesus. However, Jesus is Christ, and fulfilled that potential for truly being the Son of God, and then called us all to be the same.

                So thanks for your self-righteous and intolerant attempt to define my beliefs, but you are quite wrong. Suggest you study up on that as well:

                http://www.unification.net/...

                It is not a substitute for the Bible but an exegesis.

            •  lbyron/ER, you are a deception peddler (0+ / 0-)

              So, your goal is to just keep posting misinformation, distortions, and strawmen in the hope that no one reads the rest of the comments which easily show you to be a deception peddling troll? Is that the plan?

              I have a little time, let’s go through a few of them...

              Lbyron/ER/troll said: The government used truckloads of documents and charts and wasn't it about six weeks of testimonies to convict Rev. Moon for that piddling few thousand dollars.

              There you go again, rationalizing lawbreaking. The case also involved the cover up, as these things often do. This type of case is not easily proven and the fact that he was found guilty and appeals failed, confirms his guilt to the laws of the US. I know the Moon organization, which you follow, doesn’t feel bound by those laws but that is the way it is. No court case is perfect, but those truckloads of documents included Moon’s accounting which was dated from before the manufacturing date of the paper it was written upon. It wasn’t a persecution as Moon likes to get his followers to use as a rationalization point. He could have been sentenced to 14 years, giving him 13 months was showing leniency.

              I am surprised you didn’t tout the book “Inquisition” which your organization has used to rationalize his lawbreaking for years. You know, “Inquisition” the book by Carlton Sherwood which the Moon organization vetted and that the Moon organization has been “persuading” people with:

              From Frontline:

              Narrator: One week after talking to Regnery, FRONTLINE obtained a copy of a letter addressed to Sun Myung Moon. The letter was written by James Gavin, a Moon aide. Gavin tells Moon he reviewed the "overall tone and factual contents" of Inquisition before publication and suggested revisions. Gavin adds that the author "Mr. Sherwood has assured me that all this will be done when the manuscript is sent to the publisher." Gavin concludes by telling Moon, "When all of our suggestions have been incorporated, the book will be complete and in my opinion will make a significant impact.... In addition to silencing our critics now, the book should be invaluable in persuading others of our legitimacy for many years to come."

              You say Nansook Hong, Moon’s x daughter in law, is credible. Well, this is what she said in the recent BBC documentary “The Emperor of the Universe” regarding the tax case which you chose to ignore.

              Nansook Hong: We prayed on the Holy Rock every morning... ...a lot of us were there all night praying for Moon. ... But, we all knew that it was tax evasion."

              Since you choose to repeat misinformation, we’ll repeat the truth which you have been conditioned to ignore. In this case it is that Moon doesn’t believe he has to follow any laws but those he creates in his megalomaniacal mind.


              Former member Ron Paquette said in the 2000 BBC documentary Emperor of the Universe:

              Not paying your taxes, withholding payroll taxes, paying people under the table cash so you didn't have to pay the government money, that saved Father money, so therefore it was OK. It was doing God's will because anything that supported Moon or supported the agenda was doing God's will.

              Heavenly deception, indeed.

              ER/lbyon/Moon following troll said Barry Goldwater was a conservative not a liberal,

              You’re right! He was a conservative, before they became moonized. Before they became authoritarian homophobic theocrats they are today.

              Quoting From the Arizona Republic May 31, 1998

              Goldwater had won support of abortion opponents in his 1980 U.S. Senate re-election campaign, but in his final term, he voted consistently to uphold the 1973 Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion. Later in life, he was honored by Planned Parenthood.

              • In 1981, Goldwater assailed the founder of the Moral Majority, the Rev. Jerry Falwell. Responding to Falwell's statement that all good Christians should be concerned about the Supreme Court nomination of Arizonan Sandra Day O'Connor, he said, ''I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass.''

              • In 1987, Goldwater, who had described then Gov. Evan Mecham as ''hardheaded,'' called on the Republican maverick to resign.

              • In 1989, Goldwater said the Republican Party had been taken over by a ''bunch of kooks,'' a reference to forces supporting TV evangelist Pat Robertson and Mecham.

              • In 1992, he endorsed Democrat Karan English for Congress over Republican Doug Wead.

              • In June 1993, Goldwater declared that the military should lift its ban on gays in the military. He also railed against discrimination against gays and lesbians in the workplace....

              ''It's typical of those people [the new moonized right],'' Kolbe said. ''If you're not with them 100 percent, you're not with them. Therefore you're persona non grata. But that never kept Barry Goldwater from speaking his mind.''

              Kolbe, who began his political career as a page for Goldwater in the U.S. Senate, said, ''Both the party and the whole world around him changed . . . but I'm not sure he changed all that much.''

              Goldwater may have put it best in 1992, when he revealed his contempt for a new conservative movement focused on fellow Republican Jesse Helms of North Carolina.

              ''I don't like being called the New Right; I'm an old, old son-of-a-bitch. I'm a conservative,'' he said.

              The readers will note that Goldwater was very much against the forces Moon propped up which form today’s right. Classic line from Sen. Goldwater about kicking one of Moon’s favorites shills, Jerry Falwell, in the ass. He opposed Doug Wead who helped put together the luncheon where Moon received an award for his “family values” –  “family values”? haha What a bunch of BS. Goldwater was 100% right when he said the Republican Party was taken over by a “bunch of kooks.”

              Goldwater saw what was coming on the right and he detested it. In particular, he detested the very thing the moonized right has become, theocratic:

              "However, on religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.


              I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.' " – [Barry Goldwater – U.S. Senate – congressional record September 16, 1981]

              ER/lbyon/Moon troll said: You are saying that Rev. Moon controls the government

              If you would take off your Moon colored glasses long enough to read you would know that is a lie. I have didn't said that and don’t believe it. You and I BOTH know that isn’t how he works but you have to paint it that way so people will shy from seeing what Moon does, understand his approach. Moon will never sit on a throne and bark out orders, other than to his direct followers, like you. He enables people and creates front groups which push his agenda. He calls it, "natural subjugation." In the case of the United States, he has funded the hard right wing and the theocrats. He spent billions; much of it as shown in my original post was swindled from the Japanese, to manipulate our political system. I have watched the Moon organization use this caricature for years to paint their opponents as nuts so people won’t hear the truth. You are just carrying on the deceptive tradition.

              ER/lbyon/troll said: You brought up the KCIA and the Japanese fascist/yakuza, now you say that it's not important to you.

              ER, I am not saying Moon's deceit filled organization isn’t tied to them. However, I commented on that AFTER you brought it up while I was pointing out what a deceptive person you are by doing just that, bringing it up. Show me where I introduced the subject.


              ER/lbyron/troll said: What I said that I 'figure' was that your sig line is the main point of your rants.


              No, what you said was: I figured that the main point was your conspiracy theory that Rev. Moon controls America's politics


              And then you deceptively brought up the KCIA and boat gambling. My sig line does NOT say Moon “controls” the government or politics. In English, it says he has more to do with our nation’s “political climate than anyone.” That’s a huge difference from controlling it. He has influenced it, played a role in molding it. He outspent anyone on the right pushing the nation right and theocratic. He created front groups to manipulate/influence our political climate. This has all been well documented. I stand by what my sig actually says. Moon plainly, using cash much of which was swindled from the Japanese, has influenced our nation was the point of the post.

              ER/lbyron/troll said: You keep going on about widows but its one widow who was fundraised by two individuals.


              Do you know how foolish and conditioned to rationalize wrongdoing you look when you keep saying this was just a couple of individuals and one widow?

              Let’s recap what has been documented several times above and in the links I have provided. The UNIFICATION CHURCH has been found responsible for these cons. The UNIFICATION CHURCH had already paid $150 million by 1996 to settle some of these claims. By 2001 there were 20,000 claims totally $800 million. This has not stopped as there were an additional 1044 claims filed in 2004 to the tune of $33 million. There is a team of 300 lawyers fighting for the rights’ of the Japanese citizens. They wouldn’t need 300 lawyers for one victim with a con perpetrated by a “couple of individuals.” This has gone on since the 70s and still takes place according to the recent Japanese TV news reports. The lawyers state that in the early 90s half the Japanese members were involved which is obviously why the courts ruled the UNIFICATION CHURCH was responsible.

              Quoting the report AGAIN:

              Among the Japanese followers of the Unification Church (estimated at 20,000 people), over half have quit their jobs, left their families, and are living in a cooperative with followers. All day long, they are forced to do fund-raising by committing illegal acts such as swindling through a fraudulent missionary work and spiritual sales.

              The case which you are deceptively trying to pass off as only involving a couple of Moon followers and one victim was AN EXAMPLE, or more specifically, as the lawyer’s report states in part 2 of the 1999 report:

              The case decided by the Court was a model example of many like cases caused throughout Japan. The elements and merits of the case resemble those of most cases taken on by attorney's member to the National Network of Lawyers Against the Spiritual Sales.

              Now, since you are conditioned to rationalize away reality and lawbreaking, or in your role as a Moon troll you just won’t admit the truth, I will leave it up to the reader as to whether all that sounds like just a “couple of individuals” and one victim.

              Quit being an obstinate troll and read through this site where there are several more examples.

              As for the bullshit strawman about comparing these swindles to donating money to the RCC and someone wanting their money back – and for that matter let’s add your bullshit about St. Francis’ father not wanting him to follow his faith... Two things, if the RCC ran elaborate cons swindling widows out of their husband’s life insurance policies then, especially if there were tens of thousands of people scammed out of hundreds of millions, estimated into the BILLIONS of dollars, yes, they should return the money. As previously stated and ignored by ER the Troll, the RCC will take a small donation to offset costs of candles and prayer cards when they say masses for people’s loved ones who have died. They do not threaten people that their loved ones with "suffering in hell" if they don’t fork over 5 grand for $20 vase or their husband’s life insurance policies.


              As for St. Francis, I know the Moon organization tries to liken itself to other groups, to steal other’s credibility, to hide who they really are, but that only works on the uniformed and in your conditioned reality. My favorite is Moon claiming to be like MLK, what a crock. Anyway, .Jesus went out and spent all his time caring for people and His followers did the same from my reading. Your organization lurches for power and fuels its efforts through deception and swindling. You may be conditioned not see the difference but the readers of this blog aren’t.

              On to the next deception:  Nansook, you find her credible – BUT you have to find a way to rationalize away what she says so you cast aspersions on her ghostwriter and say Nansook can’t be trusted because she was going through a divorce and believes that Moon is a fraud.

              Folks, take a good look at that. Look at what ER/lbyron/troll is doing. What he is doing is rationalizing and detracting from Nansook’s statements by, in essence, saying she has become a “Moon hater” and therefore Moon followers can ignore her. This is the same tactic the new right has learned to use when they say people on the left are “Bush haters” - so they don’t have to deal with the reality of what they say. It is a mind control trick.

              ER, I am not using what Nansook stated so honestly, clearly, and credibly out of desperation to confirm my beliefs. You see, the Moon organization is such a rotten apple one can toss out what Nansook says and you still have a very rotten apple. You can toss out ties to the KCIA and you still have a rotten apple. “Desperation” plays no role.

              So, you don’t think that Thompson used the money from the Moon sanctioned shark operation to fund church activities? Sure, tell yourself whatever you want to believe ER, whatever you want to believe.

              I do want to thank you again for giving me more examples to use which show the Moon organization is not one which people should trust. They deceive and rationalize lawbreaking, just for starters.

              Oh and yes, when I emailed some people with the link to this post, I told them to expect you. Not that big of a deal. You know I pegged you instantly as ER, the Moon troll, why would you doubt that I predicted your arrival?

              "Sun Myung Moon has more to do with our nation's political climate than anyone. Anyone!" - moonboots

              by moonboots on Tue Aug 29, 2006 at 10:06:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  You keep saying it's 'Political' (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Panda

          Political- having to do with Politics? If that is so are you saying the UC is a political movement more than a church? If it isn't a political movement why would it have political enemies?

          In your efforts to deceive and obfuscate, you only confirm what you are accused of.

          I'd quit while I was ahead if I were you.

          •  Politics are influenced by religious belief... (0+ / 0-)

            Even if you profess no religious belief at all, or believe that the most important thing about Jesus is that he liberated the poor.

            Our religious beliefs inspired a strong stand against the atheistic totalitarian socialists, especially those known as Marxists, and those socialists have a long and vengeful memory.

            The separation between religion and politics seems to be black and white for you, but that is just your simplitic thinking.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site