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Uh-oh. Disney may have to do more editing, according to AMERICAblog's John Aravosis:

As I first noted yesterday, I have the entire "Path to 9/11" video. And one of the very first scenes makes it explicitly clear that American Airlines had Mohammad Atta in its grasp, warning lights flashing on the computer screen, yet the airline simply blew off the threat and helped Atta kill 3,000 Americans.

Unfortunately, it's a total lie.

Here's what the "Path to 9/11" claims American Airlines did on the morning of September 11. According to Disney/ABC, American Airlines had Mohammad Atta at its ticket counter and a warning came up on the screen when he tried to check in. The AA employee called a supervisor who kind of shrugged and said, blithely, just let him through. The first employee, shocked, turned to her supervisor and said, shouldn't we search him? The American Airlines supervisor responds, nah, just hold his luggage until he boards the plane. The scene is clearly intended to make American Airlines look negligent.

Only problem? It never happened.

First off, Disney/ABC got the airport wrong. The warning for Mohammad Atta's ticket popped up in Portland, Maine, not at Boston Logan as the tv show claims (this is on page 1 of the September 11 Commission report).

Second, the security rules at the time said nothing about searching a passenger who has a "warning" pop up, they only required that the bags be held until the passenger boarded. The Disney/ABC tv show, on the other hand, clearly tries to imply that American Airlines violated the security rules in letting Atta go. This simply isn't true. (This is also on page 1 of the report.)

But most importantly, Disney/ABC implicated the wrong airline.

The Portland, Maine flight in question was a U.S. Airways flight. American Airlines didn't have squat to do with it -- and the U.S. Airways team didn't violate the rules at all, much less through negligence, as the 9/11 Commission report made clear.

Yeah, ABC, after slandering the Washington Post, a passel of government officials, and now American Airlines because the "fictionalized" drama makes events up wholesale, distorts others, and fails even the most cursory attempts at fact checking, I can certainly see why you're so keen on saving this piece of crap.

(credit to mollyd)

Well, actually, I can't. This is long past fiasco at this point, and Bob Iger still insists that this conservative terror porn can be somehow edited and saved.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:00 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  American Airlines (17+ / 0-)

    Guess we should call them and say we can never fly on their airline again because we do not feel safe after watching the movie.

    And then ask dare they.

    who knows....maybe we should picket American Airlines on Tuesday?

    Blue is the most popular color

    by jalapeno on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:48:17 AM PDT

  •  I hope AA and US know about this (n/t) (0+ / 0-)

    Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!

    by brainwave on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:48:24 AM PDT

  •  Why didn't I become a libel lawyer!? (18+ / 0-)

    I'm getting sick to my stomach thinking of all the money somebody's going to make over this evil little piece of libelous muck.

  •  Some airlines (17+ / 0-)

    and airports have been combined for dramatic purposes.  What's wrong with that?  

    </shaking head in disgust>

    •  Isn't that called scene compression? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GOTV, diplomatic, mango, java4every1

      Poetic license to shill.

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:50:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You know (0+ / 0-)

        I don't see this as egregious as the other shit in the movie.  This is just SOP docudrama stuff, making composite characters and using dialogue to dramatize the unfolding situation.

        The underlying narrative here appears to be true -- Atta was identified before boarding in Portland, and his bags were held -- and the movie's point also appears to be true -- if different procedures had been in place, at least one of the hijackings may have been prevented.

        If I were AA, I might be pissed, but this isn't like the portrayal of Sandy Berger or Madeline Albright giving orders and making statements that they in fact never gave nor made, nor is it like suggesting Clinton was too distracted by his sex life to take the terrorist threat seriously.  That stuff is real partisan twisting of the facts, falsely representing the real anti-terrorist efforts of the Clinton administration and re-writing history.  The airport/airline shit is small potatoes, the kind of shit that happens in every single historical drama that's ever been made.

        •  SOP docudrama staff (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wary, godislove

          well, yes, that is the problem.  What's so hard about getting it right?

          "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little safety will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

          by glynis on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:05:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I mean sop docudrama stuff (0+ / 0-)

            "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little safety will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

            by glynis on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:09:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  As a history teacher (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Coherent Viewpoint

            I like to use movies.  Kids know the narrative structure of feature films, and they decode them pretty easily.  They prefer films that meet Hollywood's stylistic standards for pacing and editing; they don't like long, drawn-out, detailed explications of every single step of a historical process.

            Let's take this particular case as an example.  To remain true to what actually happened, you'd have to show Atta getting stopped while boarding a USAir flight in Portland, then you'd have to show him deplaning in Boston, and getting on the American flight there.  Somewhere along the way you'd have to use up a little bit of narrative time explaining why he had to change planes, and why he didn't have to go through a security check in Boston.

            Sure, it's possible to do all of that in a movie, but it's going to take up a minute or so of time and it's going to add an awful lot of information that the viewer is going to have to process.  The filmmaker may want to use that time and that information processing to get across different points, that may be more fundamental to the overall narrative.

            It makes my job harder as a history teacher, because I have to know where the composites are in the film and explain to students why they are there, but it's the price you pay for using narrative films.

            One of the things you learn in graduate school is that no source is 100% faithful to the truth.  It's just not possible.

            •  Yes... (0+ / 0-)

              like in Michael Collins...the character that Stephen Rhea plays is acutally a composite of 3 different characters...all of whom were Castle employees who informed Collins and his crew about the goings on inside the Castle.

              "Computer. End holographic program...Computer? Computer?"

              by kredwyn on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:56:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  the problem is (6+ / 0-)

              many viewers won't have graduate degrees.  They believe what they see.  As a teacher you find out where the composites are but the viewer will not do that so takes what they see at face value.

              When dealing with such an enormously important subject it's important to make sure it's factually accurate.

              Is the point of that scene that the airline failed in following proper procedure?  Then you'd better have the airline right. The truth is that both airlines followed their procedure.  

              Or maybe the point is that there are holes in the procedure.  If that's the case then they could probably have dramatized that in a better way without making it look like AA did something they shouldn't have done.

              I don't happen to think that a movie can be made that is true to the events.  Because a movie is entertainment.

              The only way, in my opinion, is to make a documentary that sticks to the facts and uses the actual people saying their own words.

              "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little safety will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

              by glynis on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:00:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  well then, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Jesterfox, doe

              In the scenes where they needed to take a little creative license for narrative purposes, why couldn't they have used the standard media technique of making up a name for those spots?  You know, like Traverse Airlines.  Like all phone numbers in movies begin with "555".

              Of course, following that rule, they'd have to rename Clinton, Berger, Albright....  heh

            •  You also learn (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              some are closer than others.

        •  I'm just amazed they couldn't get (34+ / 0-)

          page freaking one of the 9/11 Report right. I mean, c'mon, that's like producing a movie version of Hamlet and having all the other characters call him "Hamburgler" throughout the pic.

          They couldn't read page one? What is this thing, a ninth grade book report?

          •  HA! (7+ / 0-)

            To be, or not to be.  Whether tis nobler in the mind...
            Robble robble, robble robble robble.  Robble robble robble robble ...

            As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another. Proverbs 27:17

            by gpm on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:18:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Imagine being an AA employee right now (14+ / 0-)

            Isn't that the same as being Sandy Berger, Madeline Albright, et al?

            The American Airlines employees, especially in Boston have already suffered enough.

            I know all about compressing history for script convenience.  I've been in this industry for 42 years.  Yes, for 42 years (1964).

            Is there any competition between corporations of Disney/ABC and American Airlines?  Just a question, that's all.

            Most importantly, I am outraged that anyone could think that the people who work for American Airlines would not be JUST AS TEE'D OFF as anyone else has been historically portrayed in this piece of junk.

            Have we completely lost sight of the fact that corporations are also made up of citizens who are just like you or me or President Clinton, or whomever?

            There was lots and lots of creative ways to write scenes, find locations, and shoot what Hunter has seen in the video in a way that did not, even for one nanosecond, inaccurately portray any American Airlines employees.

            If any AA employees were negligent or if President Clinton or anyone else was truly needing to learn from the past, then FINE.  Tell the damn truth.  I have no problem with that.  This "drama" is not some rehash of an event from 30 years ago that doesn't affect every person on this planet.

            I'll stop ranting..........grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

            Gore - Clark in 08

            by Mac on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:45:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Obliquely apropos (3+ / 0-)

            Have you ever read the Skinhead Hamlet?

            The Skinhead Hamlet, by Richard Curtis

            ACT I SCENE I
            The battlements of Elsinore Castle.
            Enter HAMLET, followed by GHOST.
                       GHOST:  Oi!  Mush!
                       HAMLET: Yer?
                       GHOST:  I was fucked!
                                 (Exit GHOST.)
                HAMLET: O Fuck
                                 (Exit HAMLET.)

            SCENE II
            The Throneroom. Enter KING CLAUDIUS, GERTRUDE, HAMLET and COURT.

                       CLAUDIUS:  Oi!  You, Hamlet, give over!
                       HAMLET:  Fuck off, won't you?
                                  (Exit CLAUDIUS, GERTRUDE, COURT.)
                       HAMLET: (Alone)  They could have fucking waited.
                                  (Enter HORATIO.)
                       HORATIO: Oi!  Watcha cock!
                       HAMLET:  Weeeeey!

            SCENE III
            Ophelia's Bedroom. Enter OPHELIA and LAERTES.

                       LAERTES:  I'm fucking off now.  Watch Hamlet doesn't slip
                                 you one while I'm gone.
                       OPHELIA:  I'll be fucked if he does.

            SCENE IV
            The Battlements. Enter HORATIO, HAMLET and GHOST.

                       GHOST:  Oi!  Mush, get on with it!
                       HAMLET: Who did it then?
                       GHOST:  That wanker Claudius.  He poured fucking poison
                               in my fucking ear!
                       HAMLET: Fuck me!
            ACT II SCENE I
            A corridor in the castle. Enter HAMLET reading. Enter POLONIUS.

                       POLONIUS: Oi! You!
                       HAMLET:   Fuck off, grandad!
                                   (Exit POLONIUS.  Enter ROSENCRANZ and
                       ROS & GUILD:  Oi! Oi!  Mucca!
                       HAMLET:  Fuck off, the pair of you!
                                   (Exit ROS & GUILD.)
                       HAMLET:  (Alone)  To fuck or be fucked.
                                   (Enter OPHELIA.)
                       OPHELIA:  My Lord!
                       HAMLET:  Fuck off to a nunnery!
                                   (They exit in different directions.)

            ACT III SCENE I
            The Throne Room. Enter PLAYERS and all COURT.

                       I PLAYER:  Full thirty times hath Phoebus cart...
                       CLAUDIUS:  I'll be fucked if I watch any more of this crap.

            SCENE II
            Gertrude's Bedchamber. Enter HAMLET, to GERTRUDE.
                       HAMLET:  Oi!  Slag!
                       GERTRUDE:  Watch your fucking mouth, kid!
                       POLONIUS:  (From behind the curtain)  Too right.
                       HAMLET:  Who the fuck was that?
                                  (He stabs POLONIUS through the arras.)
                       POLONIUS:  Fuck!
                       HAMLET:  Fuck!  I thought it was that other wanker.

            ACT IV SCENE I
            A Court Room.

                       CLAUDIUS:  Fuck off to England then!
                       HAMLET:  Delighted, mush.

            SCENE II
            The Throne Room. OPHELIA, GERTRUDE and CLAUDIUS.
                       OPHELIA:  Here, cop a whack of this.
                                   (She hands GERTRUDE some rosemary and exits.)
                       CLAUDIUS:  She's fucking round the twist, isn't she?
                       GERTRUDE:  (Looking out the window)  There is a willow grows
                    aslant the brook.
                       CLAUDIUS:  Get on with it, slag.
                       GERTRUDE:  Ophelia's gone and fucking drowned!
                       CLAUDIUS:  Fuck!  Laertes isn't half going to be browned off.

            SCENE III
            A Corridor.
                       LAERTES:  (Alone)  I'm going to fucking do this lot.
                                   (Enter CLAUDIUS.)
                       CLAUDIUS:  I didn't fucking do it, mate.  It was that wanker
                       LAERTES:  Well, fuck him.

            ACT V SCENE I
            Hamlet's Bedchamber. HAMLET and HORATIO seated.
                       HAMLET:  I got this feeling I'm going to cop it, Horatio,
                   and you know, I couldn't give a flying fuck.

            SCENE II
                       LAERTES:  Oi, wanker:  let's get on with it.
                       HAMLET:  Delighted, fuckface.
                                  (They fight and both are poisoned by the poisoned
                       LAERTES:  Fuck!
                       HAMLET:  Fuck!
                                  (The QUEEN drinks.)
                       GERTRUDE:  Fucking odd wine!
                       CLAUDIUS:  You drunk the wrong fucking cup, you stupid cow!
                       HAMLET:  (Pouring the poison down CLAUDIUS'S throat)  Well,
                       CLAUDIUS:  I'm fair and squarely fucked.
                       LAERTES:  Oi, mush:  no hard feelings, eh?
                       HAMLET:  Yer.
                                  (LAERTES dies.)
                       HAMLET:  Oi!  Horatio!
                       HORATIO:  Yer?
                       HAMLET:  I'm fucked.  The rest is fucking silence.
                                  (HAMLET dies.)
                       HORATIO:  Fuck:  that was no ordinary wanker, you know.
                                  (Enter FORTINBRAS.)
                       FORTINBRAS:  What the fuck's going on here?
                       HORATIO:  A fucking mess, that's for sure.
                       FORTINBRAS:  No kidding.  I see Hamlet's fucked.
                       HORATIO:  Yer.
                       FORTINBRAS:  Fucking shame:  fucking good bloke.
                       HORATIO:  Too fucking right.
                       FORTINBRAS:  Fuck this for a lark then.  Let's piss off.

            Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

            by bumblebums on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:12:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Why expect truth? (7+ / 0-)

          After all, this is a program that's running without commercials. What other kind of programs run on commercial television without commercials? Paid political programming. And who expects truth from paid political programming?

          No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a part of a continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, [America] is the less

          by Alien Abductee on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:18:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's another example of how (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          They can't even get the little things right.  And personally, I'm upset for AA.  

          Stephanie Dray
          of Jousting for Justice, a lefty blog with a Maryland tilt.

          by stephdray on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:46:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe small potatoes to you, (12+ / 0-)

          but I'm very, very close to an AA employee, and I assure you that this will not play well at all at AA. Don't forget, AA lost employees, passengers, and 2 aircraft to the terrorists, along with immeasurable amounts of pride and employee morale. The careers of many of those employees were disrupted or ended entirely due to the post 9/11 depression that struck the airline industry. Now they are to be attacked by Disney, too? Is there anything that is true in this piece of shit???

          The hits just keep on coming!

          I submit that this is exactly like all the other lies in this shoddy, sloppy, piece of propaganda.
          If you don't care about the whole truth, why do you expect anyone to listen to the politically-focused  concerns?(which I whole-heartedly share, by the way)

        •  If I were (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          AA, I'd take them to court.  If you're running a business, it's your job to protect the business.

      •  and time compression means (8+ / 0-)

        compressing the problems with the Bush administration into the Clinton administration.

        Well, gee, what's wrong with that?  It was someone's administration. [/snark]

        "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little safety will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

        by glynis on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:03:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Or obscene compression? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Heart of the Rockies

        "For dramatic and narrative purposes, this material  contains fictionalized scenes, composite and representative characters and dialogue, as well as time compression."
        The above quote can be compressed to two words...
        A  LIE.

    •  I would think that American Airlines (14+ / 0-)

      would be absolutely apoplectic at being portrayed as culpable for the 9/11 attacks in this fashion. There are many people who will watch this drivel and say to themselves "I'll never fly AA again".

      Perhaps no one has brought this fictional tidbit to their attention.

      "Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence; Conservatism is distrust of the people, tempered by fear" Wm. Gladstone

      by lcbo on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:06:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What's wrong - The movie has American Airlines (12+ / 0-)

      fumbling the ball on security when they clearly didn't.  They are financially shaky and a small decrease in passenger miles could cause them to go under.

      I'm sure they will get involved big time when they learn of this.  The difficulty is that very few even know what's in the movie.

      "Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller

      by Templar on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:13:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Amazing they haven't shelved this yet (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CocoaLove, vigilant meerkat

    What in the world they are thinking, I have no idea.  But they are really very stupid.

    The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information.- Henry Wallace, Vice President under FDR

    by LisaZ on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:49:52 AM PDT

  •  Action (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla, kestrel9000

    It may be necessary to contact American Airlines after the show airs and inform them that we'll never fly AA again, thanks to their complicity in 9/11.

  •  Need to call American Airlines: (8+ / 0-)

    I heard from someone who had seen an advance copy of tomorrow night's ANC documentary that American Airlines should have prevented the lead hijacker from boarding his plane, and so should have prevented at least part of 9/11! They ignored a warning that came up when he boarded! I can't believe your airline is so stupid! I certainly am never flying American Airlines again. Thank goodness ABC let us in on this fact (which certainly must have been in the 9/11 Commission report).

    •  threaten to picket (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MarkC, Whitney S

      AA with signs saying that AA let Atta destroy WTC

      Blue is the most popular color

      by jalapeno on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:52:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I can't see how this helps anyone (0+ / 0-)

        nor similar suggestions all over the thread.  You'll just make a bad situation worse for a company in a dificult business, and perhaps generate resentment against this site that does not exist at all today.  Disney/Abc is different as to pressure - they are perpetrators/backers.  Shall we all picket Bill and Hillary Clinton?

  •  If You Want This Shelved, Here's Our Chance.... (0+ / 0-)

    Get this onto CNN by the end of today, in time for tomorrows talk shows, and ABC pulls the plug.  Step outside yourself for a second and think about how this sounds to average Joe Voter.

    Host a free screening of my upcoming animated documentary DOOLITTLE RAIDERS!!!

    by tkmattson on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:51:42 AM PDT

  •  Can you say Slander? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Riff, doe, Sagittarius, raincrow, DSPS owl

    They're begging to be sued.
    Textbook case.
    False statements of a defamatory nature. Even better that they were warned ahead of time that they got it wrong and still aired the piece of crap.

  •  Maybe (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Thistime, Karyn, raincrow

    it will be for the best if they show it? Just maybe it will backfire like crazy? Or am I dreaming?

    •  You are dreaming, (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cosette, Petronella, raincrow, Tanya

      but that's all we have so enjoy it.

    •  Not dreaming (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JohnInWestland, palachia, DSPS owl

      Given the enormous amount of notice they had, including some from very right-wing sources, that this movie is a steaming pile, no matter how they dress it up in disclaimers they're handing the Dems an e-fucking-normous stick to beat the whole right wing with.

      My first preference is for the movie to be killed.  Truth above all else, etc.

      But having it as a gigantic example of the excesses of the wingnuts is almost as good as it being quietly strangled.  Think about how easy it will be to tell voters (and they're the only ones who count) about the endless fabrications, and how this is just one more example to add to the phantom WMD's, the fantasy Iraq/al Qaeda link, Santorum's bizarre claims of found WMD's, etc.  This is the critical mass example, the one that's so over the top, so completely obvious, that it opens whole new lines of argument in the mainstream about how the right lies constantly and doesn't even flinch when it comes to politicizing 9/11.  It lets us move what we know about the right wingers from places like dKos, where the poli-geeks hang out, to the mainstream.

      If the Dems are even half as smart as I think they'll be in dealing with this (and I always expect them to screw up something), ABC just handed us 5 to 10 more House and Senate seats.

  •  Ah, American Airlines... (26+ / 0-)

    I worked for them as a flight attendant for 15 years. I had it in for them when they forced us to go on strike in 1993 (after not giving us a contract for 2 years).

    But then this guy came in and told our CEO he better get back to the bargaining table. And Robert Crandall did.

    Oh, the good old days.

    Read all about it here.

  •  Oh dear. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I suppose that the makers of P9/11 have stepped in it now.

    Someone notify AA about this.  I'm sure they'd be veeerrrrrrrry interested in this.

    When you couldn't get a real journalism job, there's Fox News.

    by The Truffle on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:52:56 AM PDT

    •  Stepped in it *now*? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      They've immersed themselves in it over the course of this administration, and now they're trying to fling it as far away as they can.

      Jumping on the bandwagon: (-3.63, -3.03) - Does that make me part of the right wing here?

      by someone else on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:02:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  any pools betting on Iger's exit date & replace (4+ / 0-)

    Just wondering if anyone has seen a pool and/or any odds on Iger's position at Disney?  I would like to place some wagers!

  •  There was a plane and Atta was on it (9+ / 0-)

    They fictionalized the rest of details all the while sticking to the Sacred essence of the story; Clinton caused 9/11 because he was oversexed. Bush, (aka The Divine and Heroic One) has tried to save the nation ever since. Since since Bush has human characteristics Bush hasn’t preformed perfectly (that little mix-up with the daily briefing), but his divine qualities will save us all eventually.

    What are you anyway, are you a Clintonastia?

  •  The Disney brand (12+ / 0-)

     Let's not forget that Disney is a WORLDWIDE brand. The Disney image and Disney products are known all around the globe.

    They've chosen to become shills for Bush. But consider: Who likes Bush?

     -- 35% of Americans
     -- The Saudi royal family
     -- Tony Blair

     That's basically it. Bush is loathed by a HUGE majority of global citizens. Many of whom make up Disney's market.

     They might want to think about this a little more.

    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:54:54 AM PDT

  •  abc just put a trailer up (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cosette, raincrow, Iowa Boy, jace

    on their front page

    it wasn't there last night

    To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men~~ Abraham Lincoln

    by Tanya on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:57:36 AM PDT

  •  Albright, Berger and Clinton (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jesterfox, greenearth

    will be among the many other ultimate beneficiaries if ABC decides to air this loathsome piece of right-wing propaganda. Once the massive backlash effort kicks in and any short-term benefits to the GOP are seen, it will manifest itself as a timely inversion of the Rovian canard that "If it's bad for the GOP, then it's good for the GOP", because this time, it'll be more accurately "If it's bad for the Dems, then it's good for the Dems".

    Thank you, turdblossom. This WILL bite you in the ass. Another nail in the GOP's coffin.

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

    by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 11:59:33 AM PDT

    •  how many races (0+ / 0-)

      could $100 million dollars fund if they decided to use our legal system?

      Blue is the most popular color

      by jalapeno on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:03:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Who's Ass Will Be Bitten? (0+ / 0-)

      We've raised hell for days now and they're still going to run it.  So when it airs tomorrow night and all the partisan bs has been edited out, they will just turn around and call us whiners.  Once again, either way, the GOP wins.

      •  Please (6+ / 0-)

        Ooh, it's been DAYS now and no results. Damn, might as well fold up the tent and give up, because here come those charging pachyderms! We are doomed, I tells ya, DOOMED!

        If this is this is the extent of your patience, perseverence and faith, then I pity you. It took the right 40 years to build up its vast political and media power. You really think we're going to topple it in days, weeks and months? Lame.

        Here's how it'll bite them in the ass. We're going to ramp up the attacks on Disney, ABC and anyone who's responsible for this despicable piece of right-wing propaganda. There will be boycotts, protests, letter-writing campaigns, powerful statements by public figures, and, most likely, legal action. And when we retake congress, hearings and sanctions.

        And the public, which had long since lost faith in Bush and the GOP and their ability to protect us, will simply not buy the "blame the Dems" bullshit spouted by this piece of crap "FuckYouDrama", and see it for what it is, a pathetic hail mary attempt by the GOP to snatch victory from the rapidly closing jaws of defeat.

        If anything, they will abandon the GOP in even larger numbers, as fence-sitters and disgrunted Repubs will think to themselves, if that's all they've got and what they've been reduced to, then fuck 'em, I'm votiing Dem this year.

        Let the ass-biting begin!

        "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

        by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:49:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I Didn't Say A Damn Thing (0+ / 0-)

          about giving up, did I?  Get a freakin grip.  Take your anger out on someone else.  I didn't say a damn thing to deserve it.

          •  Oh really? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Then care to explain or defend this revealing little gem:

            Once again, either way, the GOP wins.

            Anyone who asserts such defeatist tripe--especially THESE days, when we've finally begun to put the GOP in its place--has clearly given up--if not worse.

            Sell this trollish BS someplace else. We're not buying it here.

            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

            by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:28:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Umm, sorry, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            but "once again, either way, the GOP wins" sounds defeatist, at best, to me.

            I think kovie has a very firm grip.

            You got served.  

            •  Yes, AT BEST (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Personally, I think there's some willful trollishness if not active shilling here. And even if not, there's no room for weak-kneed towel-throwers in this movement.

              "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

              by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:09:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I Am Not A Troll (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                So when it airs tomorrow night and all the partisan bs has been edited out, they will just turn around and call us whiners.  Once again, either way, the GOP wins.

                Don't make creative editing to make me look bad.  What I have stated above is a possible outcome of this fiasco.  Others have stated outcomes without being called trolls and defeatists.  I did not say move on or shut up.

                I have sent my emails and blocked my dvr and called my local ABC affiliate.  You want blood, too?

            •  People are allowed to disagree. (0+ / 0-)

              I think that response was a bit extreme.  Frankly, there is a very good chance the movie will be shown, there will be people who believe it, and its lies will become part of "accepted knowledge" about 9/11 for a lot of people.

              Being defeatest isn't a good thing, but neither is getting all excited about something that probably is not going to happen.  And one thing that is not going to happen is that your average non-political American Republican will be convinced to vote Democratic because of this.  And forget about hearings and sanctions.

              Let's all keep doing what we can to keep it off the air, but convincing ourselves that its airing will cause some sort of mass uprising against the repubs is going a bit far.

              •  Yes, they are allowed to disagree (0+ / 0-)

                even when they're dead fucking wrong. It's called, ya know, Democracy. Deal with it, even if you don't appear to believe in it in practice.

                "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

                by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:50:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  So they're allowed to disagree, (0+ / 0-)

                  just not with you?  I suggest you deal with it.

                  •  Re-read the comment you responded to (0+ / 0-)

                    in which I said (because I meant it, duh) that "Yes, they are allowed to disagree", even when I (or anyone else) believes that they are wrong--even, in fact, when I (or anyone else) believes that they are "dead fucking wrong". What is it that you find so hard to understand about this very (I thought) clear and simple statement?

                    If you're trying to pull the old "if you criticize me harshly then you're trying to censor me" bullshit line of reasoning, then do it somewhere else, because that sort of nonsense doesn't fly very well here in my experience.

                    There is a huge and obvious difference between strongly disagreeing with someone (which I did) and telling them that they can't say it (which I didn't and wouldn't).

                    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

                    by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 06:16:08 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Failing to get it pulled (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          is only the first skirmish lost.

          We need to try to keep the aftermath radioactive.

          The government lies (I couldn't find the wisdom behind that, probably because of my young age, but I trust my government's good judgment) - Sunshine's blog

          by grayday101 on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:55:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yup, and quite possible the kind of skirmish (0+ / 0-)

            that it's best for us to lose in the end. See this:


            The potential consequences for Disney and ABC--not to mention the GOP and hard right--are ENORMOUS. They are doing an Arthur Andersen/Enron to themselves in literally full public view. Yet another indication of how truly moronic they are, and unfit to run the country let alone huge corporations. Shareholders, like voters--not to mention judges, smart politicians, even the media--are starting to get it, at last.

            This will be another Katrina for the GOP, and an election day gift for us.

            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

            by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:14:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Beg to differ. (0+ / 0-)

        It's almost - I said almost - beside the point whether the damn thing runs or not. The damage has been done. Our side has already won.

    •  Massive backlash? (0+ / 0-)

      I doubt it.  The Dems will just let it go on the theory that they might as well let people forget about it and don't want to be called "negative".  A significant majority of the people who watch it will believe it's all true.  And that will pretty much be it.  Even if AA does sue, it will get no coverage because it will be "old news".

      •  Are you even living in the same world (0+ / 0-)

        as the rest of us are? Have you not been paying attention to the massive legal, political and public relations backlash that's ALREADY well underway?

        We're talking hundreds of thousands of petition signatures, letters from Clinton, Berger and Albright to ABC to basically cease and desist, a small army of Dem lawyers drawing up all kinds of legal challenges, and ominiously-worded letters from the Dem leadership of both houses to both Disney and ABC that they would surely act upon when they retake congress. And this is just over the past few DAYS. By the time that the backlash movement gets fully underway, it will be MASSIVE. The legal, financial and business implications to Disney and ABC could well be enormous.

        I'll repeat to you what I have to others here when they come up with their pro forma declarations that there's no way to win this. You're either a troll, lame, or living in a cave.

        "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

        by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:46:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Massive? (0+ / 0-)

          Are you insane?  99% of people in this country have no idea there is a problem with this movie.  Ask anyone you know (assuming you know anyone who isn't on this site).

          I'm not sure how what I said is "pro forma".   You might want to look that word up.

          Rather than blow smoke about a "massive legal, political and public relations backlash" that doesn't exist, how about if you spend a few minutes trying to prevent this piece of crap from being shown?  It would be a lot more effective than insulting people on a blog.  Me?  If you check below, you'll find the e-mail address for every single in-house lawyer for AA in one of my comments.  What have you done?

          And don't call people trolls because they disagree with you.  THAT is lame.

          •  Re-read my sig line (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not sure what your definition of massive is, but when the former president of the US and some of his top cabinet-level aides write strongly-worded letters to a major corporation calling them on their bullshit and telling that what they're doing is wrong and should be stopped immediately, when the Democratic leadership of the house and senate write similarly harsh letters to this corporation, when there is talk about major lawsuits by some of the above against this corporation, when hundreds of thousands of petition signatures (which I signed and passed onto friends, thank you) are delivered to this corporation, when the entire progressive blogosphere rallies around this scandal and puts enormous resources (which at this point are not to be trifled with) behind fighting it, when even diehard wingnut conservatives come out publically against this series, then I'd say that it's reached a pretty massive scale. And we're only just days into this backlash, with things still rapidly heating up.

            But then I guess we have different standards of massive.

            I was not talking about the alleged 99% (a figure, by the way, which you've clearly pulled out of thin air since you cannot possibly back it up with evidence) who allegedly haven't heard about this scandal (even though it's gotten substantial coverage in the media by now). Most Americans are not very political, and to the extent that they are, express it mostly by voting, and to equate most of their inaction in this scandal with the backlash to it not being massive is disengenuous. Rather, as per my sig line, I was talking about a rather massive effort by a small but extremely passionate, smart and determined (not to mention quite influential) group of people to neutralize the effects of this outrage. THAT is massive. But if you think that once all is said and done by both sides, this is not going to resonate with the public, then I suggest that it is you who is "insane".

            Or at least quite lame.

            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

            by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 06:32:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  When you're finished (0+ / 0-)

              looking up "pro forma", you might want to look up "disingenuous".

              Hundreds of thousands?  Do you have a link for that, or have you "clearly pulled [it] out of thin air"?

              In any case, whatever.  I guess we'll see on Tuesday.

              To be clear, I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything we can to keep this off the air, I'm happy lots of people have come together on that, and I have also been doing my bit, but keep a sense of realism here.  If it airs, it airs.  We did all we could, and we're done.  After that it will be old news.  The damage will have been done and will not be repairable.  That's why I posted the AA lawyer info, on the off chance that if they're made aware of this, they can get an injunction, or make a big enough threat to keep it off the air.

              Congressional hearings?  Protests in the street after the fact?  No way.  You disagree.  Time will tell.  Let's keep our eyes open for those massive protests on Tuesday then.  

              •  Ok, how about this (0+ / 0-)

                Your Democratic Party Delivered 200K+ Petitions to ABC [Update II]

                And for the record, my objections to you and others is the defeatist tone that I clearly detect. While I don't doubt and salute you for being very upset with the GOP and for having taken actions to oppose them, I do mind, very much so, your defeatist tone here, in which you're all but saying that no matter what we do, we can't beat these people. THAT is what I've objected to here. And so long as you continue to feel this way and express it here, I will continue to object to it.

                If you really want us to beat them, then start believing that we can. And there are clear signs that this can and in fact has already begun to happen. E.g. social security pushback, torture amendment, ANWR defeat, SCOTUS and other court decisions, defecting conservatives, plunging poll numbers, increasing likelihood of Dems taking back congress, etc. I can't guarantee that we WILL beat them, but I firmly believe that we can and will do so. Yes, this is partly "faith-based", but not entirely, and to the extent that it is, my thinking is that if you're going to believe in a cause, then BELIEVE in it, and not just go through the motions (i.e. pro forma). THAT is disengenuous. And don't be so pedantic.

                "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

                by kovie on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 07:12:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Being pedantic is under-rated (0+ / 0-)

                  Ok, you got me on the petitions.

                  I think it's a different way of looking at things.  I don't like to be disappointed.  I'll work my butt off for something, but not say, "ok, yes, we're definitely winning, and it will be so sweet."  More like, "ok,  I've done everything I could, and I hope it works, but I'm going to keep a level head about it."  

                  You call it being defeatist, I call it being pragmatic and not setting expectations that can't be met.

                  Maybe I'm just a cranky New Englander, but I think your slams and accusations of trollery were a bit much, when really we're just talking about a different way of looking at things.

                  •  Sorry for taking so long to respond (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    You comment certainly deserved it.

                    Given the last couple of exchanges we've had, and especially this comment, I can see that you're not a troll. Apologies for accusing or implying that you were. We probably still disagree on the details of how we view the present situation and the future, but that in no way constitutes trollishness in and of itself.

                    I can understand your caution, pragmatism and unwillingness to indulge in optimism. Our side has certainly been burned sufficiently in recent years to warrant such an outlook. Our side has also done a rather poor job of standing up for itself and for our democracy. And so on. Once burned, twice shy...

                    But here's my take on things that I realize you don't share (and which, while I respect now that I better understand your perspective, I still don't agree with).

                    There are all sorts of reasons to explain why our side has done so badly in recent years, why and how Bush and the GOP have been able to subvert our democracy and do so much damage to it and our country and the world, and how we got to where we are today. Being reasonably familiar with US and world history, I can see an historical pattern here of decline and crisis, which every society has experienced at one point or another--often a number of times. In some cases, these societies never recovered from them. In other cases, they not only recovered from them, but went onto become stronger than before.

                    I believe that the present decline and crisis in US democracy is of the latter kind. I think that there are understandable (if unfortunate) reasons for why this decline and crisis happened, but also ones that make me believe that we can and will surmount them. The past few years and really decades have many similarities to the years and decades before the Civil War, or, in other ways, to the years and decades before the Great Depression. Although both experiences were hugely painful and destructive, we not only survived both, but went on to become even stronger. My gut feeling is that that's what will happen again. I may be wrong, of course, but the evidence I can see makes me believe that I'm right. And that, I think, explains my optimism (which, I must add, is certainly cautious and not pie in the sky--we certainly do face serious obstacles that may yet derail our struggle against BushCo).

                    Specifically, we're basically up against a bunch of literally insane, generally stupid, hugely inept, comically predictable, pathologically dishonest, hugely amoral and/or immoral, and quite desperate criminals who have massively overreached and proven themselves to be unfit to run the country. The public has finally begun to see this, even if it's not quite yet aware of the extent of this. And while I'm certain that they've got quite a few nasty tricks up their sleeves, I just don't see how the can sustain their rule at the present course. Even if they continue to rig elections and control the media, the public is rejecting them to such an extent that pretty soon even this won't be enough to stay in power.

                    The only way that I can see them holding onto power for much longer is either by reforming themselves and doing a better and more honest job of governing, or by basically completing their long-term project of turning our democracy into a fascist police state. I completely discount the possibility of the first happening, because these people simply don't have it in them to undergo such a transformation. And I don't think that they can pull the latter off because our system, weakened though it has become, is still too strong to allow them to pull this off--and they're not smart and tough enough to do it.

                    This is where my cautious optimism comes from. I think that the backlash that was bound to rise up against BushCo--due to their extremism, venality, incompetence, dishonesty and stupidity--is finally  taking place, it's still gaining steam, and it will eventually do away with them. Not completely, of course, but enough to restore some balance and sanity in our political system. Again, I may be wrong, but my reading of the present situation tells me that this is what will happen.

                    Also, just a quick note about troll accusations. My definition of troll extends beyond the obvious forms of trollishness and trollery, to also include people who, whether intentionally and knowingly or not, express what I view as an excessive if not extreme (and unwarranted) form of pessimism, to the point of being a form of defeatism that holds little to no hope of success, and sees little to no point in struggling further--even if these same people at the same time claim to be on "our" side.

                    Even if they are (and I strongly suspect that they often are not--I believe that the term for such people is "concern trolls"), I find such negativism, pessimism and defeatism to be not only unwarranted, but dangerous and destructive, because it can be quite contagious, by tending to further discourage people (often to the point of giving up themselves) who want our side to win, but who aren't exactly brimming with optimism themselves. THAT is what I find trollish, even if it wasn't meant to be such.

                    My view is, if you believe in something, then BELIEVE in it, and fight for it, regardless of the odds against it, and don't let yourself give in to pessimism and negativism, let alone defeatism. Because if anything will guarantee that you WILL lose, it is such an attitude. Such, be pragmatic and realistic, and don't overestimate your sides' chances or the difficulty of the struggle that you're a part of. But don't let this pragmatism turn into defeatism, because that can be and often is fatal.

                    So keep being pragmatic. Just try to see it from a "glass half full" perspective.

                    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

                    by kovie on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 06:30:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, right... (0+ / 0-)

          You definitely aren't telling people they can't post, just tossing around the troll accusations in the spirit of debate, reassurance, and greater understanding.  I'm sure no intimidation is at ALL intended.

          Let me ask, what do you think is the critical damage caused by this movie?  Do you really think that your random man on the street cares if American Airlines gets pissed off?  That ends up in the business news -- do they even notice?  How many people consider the stories about factual innaccuracies as more than political posturing and CYA?  

          How many people even watch the news, or the few minutes where this is discussed?  Are they getting their news from Rush or from...well, heck, where does the average tv-watcher even get the truth these days with any consistency?

          The danger, as I see it, is that people will assume a show would not make it to the airwaves -- especially after any kind of publicized protest -- if it weren't accurate.  Subconsciously, viewers are likely to assume that no one would screw around with a subject as important and as emotionally fraught as 9/11 -- that whatever is aired has to have been carefully vetted.

          Thousands and maybe millions of viewers will treat this as a history lesson, and for those with a motive to push the 'Clinton's fault' meme it provides a fantastic tool for indoctrination.

          Feeling like the GOP has won the battle if this airs is not the same as stating they've won the war, but it is a legitimate POV.  You might not agree, and you might not respect that POV, but it does not make someone a troll.

          •  I agree with most of this (0+ / 0-)

            In the sense that most Americans are unable and/or unwilling to get honest and accurate news and to evaluate it critically. So "journotainment" often passes for real news and understanding. And there is a very real chance of this miniseries further distorting their understanding of what really led to 9/11 (which is ironic given that we still don't know so much, to the point that none of us can really know as of yet). So yes, in a sense, the right HAS won THIS battle.

            Which is why I believe that we need to go after Disney and ABC to the fullest extent, and why I believe that this effort will ultimately succeed, at least in part.

            Although, having watched the first part and currently watching the second part, I'm less worried that this will reflect poorly on Dems, especially in a way that could hurt them this November. It appears to be just as damning to the Bush administration as it is to the Clinton one--if not more so given that if anything it shows how much less Bush did to try to stop Bin Laden than Clinton, and that 9/11 happened on Bush's watch.

            Plus, it's a really sloppily made film. They just showed the first plane that hit the NORTH side of the NORTH tower of the WTC approach it--from the SOUTH, over NY harbor. This VISUALLY contradicts the historical record in absolutely irrefutable manner. This whole thing might well end up being a tempest in a teapot given how awful a series it is. Hell, it might well hurt the GOP more than it hurts the Dems. Which, given the right's proven record of incompetent self-defeating behavior, is par for the course.

            See my response to Petronella above for more about this. It also addresses why I've got an overly sensitive "troll guage". I don't believe that P is one, but I do believe that this site and others is rife with so-called "concern trolls".

            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

            by kovie on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 09:24:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Disney/ABC's 9/11 Terror Porn (9+ / 0-)

    Oh, terror porn, that is so good, Hunter. Perfect. Crisp. The whole issue in two words - terror porn.

    > 518,000 American children are in foster care. Got any bandwidth?

    by kck on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:01:02 PM PDT

  •  On Native Soil (4+ / 0-)

    This program is being re-broadcast, to the best of my knowledge, Sunday night at 6 p.m PDT on Court TV.  I first saw it back in August.  I mis-set my VCR (yea, I still use one of those old-fashioned gizmos; not TiVo yet) and missed the last 10 minutes of the show, so I have been watching for a replay.  I just found out about the showing mentioned up above.

    It too purports to be The Documentary of the 9/11 Commission Report.  However, from what I have seen of it, the story is much closer to true than anything I have heard about Mickey's version.

    On Native Soil: The Documentary of The 9/11 Commission Report is the riveting story of September 11th and the 9/11 Commission hearings, as they have never been presented before. On Native Soil faithfully captures the content of the book, revealing its strengths and weaknesses, while exposing provocative, explosive and emotional new details. Never-before-seen interviews were conducted with witnesses who testified for the commission behind closed doors.

    Demanding answers from your government is rarely easy. To accomplish this task, a loose collection of ordinary Americans - united by their single-minded passion for answers - challenged a vast and defensive bureaucracy and triumphed. As a result of their efforts, the tragedy that redefined a nation has been investigated and documented. The collective efforts of these heroes proved that democracy is more powerful than politics.

    On Native Soil is their story - it is America's story.

    It does not deal as much with the politics of the situation, like Mickey does, but rather with the compounding of human error and circumstance that lead to the disaster.

    It would be a shame if Disney's farce took any thunder at all away from "On Native Soil."  Catch it if you can.

  •  American is admitting guilt if they don't stop it (6+ / 0-)

    American has been alerted that they're are falsely portrayed as criminally incompetent on 9/11.

    Consequently, if they don't try to get ABC to cease and desist, they are admitting their guilt.

    Perhaps they should change their name to "Al Qaeda Airlines"?

  •  Well, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    suskind, Riff

    At least now we can expect a lawsuit if the movie airs.

  •  the writer ignored technical consultants (5+ / 0-)

    at least two of which quit the project due to innacuracies

    the writer is making the rounds of wingnut radio shows and continuing his lies and falsehoods regarding the project, and attempting to hide behind freedom of speech

  •  Goofy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sagittarius, Esjaydee

    I'm glad someone finally noticed that Goofy is an appropriate Disney character to associate with this film.

  •  Right-wingers are liars (6+ / 0-)

    So all these lies are to be expected but that doesn't mean we should tolerate them anymore.

    The Kos community is doing an amazing job on this.

    It's good that they attacked AA now we have corporations who will be at each other's throats. This is a good thing.

    This is also a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY for us to get the real facts out there about 911. Many people are paying attention so it's time to expose it all. The 911 commission report had very little media play. Is anyone surprised?

    We must remind people that this happened on Bush's watch. Hammer that point daily and while you are at it add Katrina! If we are safer then why can't this administration rescue it's own people from a storm? Why didn't the Bush administration secure the levees?
    And now that Bush is talking about Bin Laden again during an election year let's remind people that Bush has failed to capture him.

    This is one of the most important times in our history. The Bush administration will be exposed to no end when Democrats get in. This administration will stop at nothing to prevent this.

  •  Mitigation of damages (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DMiller, Sagittarius
    American Airlines needs to act NOW. If they try to take legal action afterwards Disney will argue that the scene to be aired was public knowledge and American didn't say peep. made no attempt to correct, stop, etc.
    This will reduce AA's damages.
    Now that this info is public, American has a DUTY to act if it wants to avoid being injured by the mouse.
    Legal and investor relations need to be alerted.
  •  Very old Rethug Natl Comm. talking points (0+ / 0-)

    Most of the story-scenes that are so totally false look like some of the 4 & 5 year old talk-radio make-believe that the wingnutz used to tell each other when they phoned in to the various shows.  It would appear that the writer of this mickey mouse fukurama is fleshing out little sequences from Rush Limpballs phony tales of the arabian knights.

    The "we coulda' had Atta a hundred times" schtick is really well worn, hashed & rehashed fantasyland fiction.

    Impeach. Convict. Imprison. End this REIGN OF MISERABLE FAILURE.

    by whl on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:05:38 PM PDT

  •  Good gawd, I just can't find the swear words (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    strong enough to express how I feel about this exploitation and bastardizing of a great tragedy.

    !!! there.

    This above all: to thine own self be true...-WS

    by Agathena on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:10:15 PM PDT

  •  Nabisco (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow, greenearth
    Benjamin Moore Paint
    Bosch Tools and Appliances

    Pay ABC

    Benjamin Moore Paints, Bosch tools and appliances, and Thermador sponsor Desperate Housewives on ABC.

    by LandSurveyor on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:10:54 PM PDT

  •  With all these suggestions (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    is this just all of us saying "someone" should alert AA, or is there any sort of organized (heh) effort, list of links/contacts, etc?

    What good does it do to picket AA, who probably has no clue and is the one beig slandered.  Your irony will be lost on the general public.

    And what good does it do to picket them Tuesday when there's no chance to keep the stupid piece of shit from airing?

  •  This is pretty incredible (6+ / 0-)

    Because it shows that the movie went through NO VETTING AT ALL.

    This is a major legal exposure and takes maybe ten minutes to find the error.

    •  How does YWAM tie in? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Ever since this thing started I feel like I've gone down the rabbit hole in Alice and Wonderland. What I would like to know, how does YWAM tie into this?  This is so weird it has got to have something to do with the religious right.  If you are looking for the money behind this, what about YWAM?  I found out about YWAM using the blog search engine.  Starting at least with the Chronicles of Narnia, by Christian writer C.S. Lewis, Disney seems to be making a conscious effort to skew to the right, particularly the religious right.

      •  I don't know whether YWAM (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        is tied to the Narnia thing.

        I like C.S. Lewis. I don't consider Narnia to be a right-wing work. (If I accept that, the right will claim fellow Inkling Tolkien next.)

        It was funded by Philip Anschutz, who made his fortune at Qwest; I don't knw whether his is involved with YWAM.

        •  I like C.S. Lewis, too (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Elwood Dowd, jkilkullen

          I did not say C.S. Lewis was a right-winger.  I have read most of what he has written, including his books on Christianity, and I doubt it very much, but Disney marketed it to the right-wing. Right wing churches are embracing it, because of the allegory in it.  YAM apparently is a Christian Youth Organization of some sort, dedicated to getting right-wing Christians involved in the media.

          I am a Christian, a fan of CS Lewis and of Tolkein, I was not trying to blast Christianity, but I am damn tired of what the right-wing is doing to my religion.

    •  If somebody made an offer they couldn't (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      refuse to Disney/ABC to air the thing, that might explain why they didn't vet it.

      Katrina was America's Chernobyl.

      by lysias on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:39:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Clinton lawyershttp://elec send new letter to ABC (5+ / 0-)

    Just saw this, again, of all places, on the Drudge report.  Lawyers for former President Clinton have sent a new letter demanding that ABC drop "Path to 9-11" from airing.  This thing is far from over.

    Here is the link:

    "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."-FDR

    by Michigan Paul on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:13:10 PM PDT

  •  Facts!? We don't need no stinkin' facts! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    M-I-C-K-E-Why? Because we hate America.

    Do the right thing 'casue it feels better.

    by John Boy on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:14:14 PM PDT

  •  Email AA something like this (0+ / 0-)

    I just finished watching a copy of the ABC documentary "Path to 9/11" set to air publicly tomorrow night. I will never fly your airline again after learning that American Airlines allowed Mohammed Atta to board Flight 11 after a security warning was displayed, as portrayed by ABC's film. "American" Airlines, indeed. More like "Al Quaeda Airlines". You let 9/11 happen, even though you were warned, and neither me nor my family will ever buy another ticket on your airline. Period.

    Why did Minnie break up with Mickey? Cause she was fucking Goofy.

    by steelman on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:14:36 PM PDT

  •  Some more info about (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The married couple (Govindini  Murty & Jason Apuzzo) that are co-founder "Liberty Film Festival. Here is Govindini bio Here and more on her husband Jason Apuzzo and his pathetic interview about a movie he made titled San Pedro, trying to take down Al Gore Here.

    Interesting that these two little Asshole have been working underground all these years.

    A few quotes from Jason Apuzzo in his interview for his 2002 film San Pedro.

     "I was attracted to the Democratic Party for the same reason that Francis Ford Coppola was attracted to the Mafia: because corrupt people are more interesting.  There's more room for them to grow.  Democrats happen to be more open to corruption because they're far more idealistic about what government can do for people.  When that idealism is shattered, they have a tendency to embrace the dark side.

    San Pedro incorporates clips from Gore visiting the Buddhist temple.  Apuzzo had difficulty obtaining the clips, but finally got them from the Republican National Committee.

       Says Apuzzo:  "I'd tried getting [the clips] from ABC News Archives, CBS News Archives, CNN, etc. -- all because I didn't want to be accused of making a partisan film with the cooperation of the Republican Party.

       "The problem was that every mainstream news archive I contacted 'couldn't find it,' had 'lost' the footage, didn't know what I was talking about, etc.  I even discovered that this same footage had once been subpoenaed by the House of Representatives, but had mysteriously 'disappeared.'

       "So finally, I called someone at the RNC (I'm not supposed to mention who) who was working on a high-profile project for the White House.  She dug out the footage for me and took care of the rights.  That was how the temple footage ended up in the film."

    Apuzzo dedicates San Pedro to Rush Limbaugh, George Lucas, and Steve Jobs.  "All have been inspirational to me.  'Think differently' or 'Think different' is the Apple Computer motto -- and a very good one.  All three of those guys achieved tremendous success by going against the grain in their professions.  Limbaugh took on the liberal media monopoly and won.  Lucas took on Hollywood and won.  Jobs re-invented the personal computer -- while Bill Gates follows him around like a puppy dog, copying everything he does.

    Says Apuzzo: "Conservatives have ceded the arts and humanities -- which is to say, the culture -- to the Left over the last 35 years.  Our college campuses are teeming with John Walker Lindhs who haven't had the temerity to actually take up arms against their country -- but who share Lindh's nihilism.  They're the Columbine killers, fueled by the violence and despair of films like The Matrix --  a film Goebbels would've loved.  The corrosion of the humanities by the Left has created these monsters, and there will be worse ones to come.

       "President Bush, who is otherwise doing a marvelous job, doesn't seem aware that the culture war is equally important to the war on terror.  The universities are almost totally lost, not to mention the wasteland that Hollywood's become.  

    I cannot even imagine what kind of Propaganda crap these creeps have in development right now. They are in bed with Horowitz, and all the other key players involved with PT9/11.

    I am typing my fingers to the bone for Harry, his little hippie River, us, and America.

    by Chamonix on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:15:51 PM PDT

  •  If they dare to air this garbage on TV (3+ / 0-)

    there are lawyers who haven't been born yet who will get rich off the pickings of Disney/ABC's bones.

    He has oil. He tried to kill my daddy.

    by kensa on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:17:05 PM PDT

  •  Why implicate the wrong airline? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bornadem, raincrow
    Is United a big DIsney/ABC sponsor?  I seriously cannot believe that American is not pitching a huge hissy fit. This is a big charge -- that they are so careless that they are partially responsible for 9-11.
  •  hmm (6+ / 0-)

    sort of makes you wonder who's selling AA stock short right now, eh?

  •  Got more facts wrong? (0+ / 0-)


    Damn...I hate it when that happens.

    "Computer. End holographic program...Computer? Computer?"

    by kredwyn on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:19:00 PM PDT

  •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kpardue, raincrow

    No matter what the temptation - DO NOT watch this film.  Low ratings = no money for ABC.  Money is the bottom line.

  •  Someone at American Airlines must have (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    once refused to automatically upgrade Karl Roves ticket to first class or something and he has been determined to get payback ever since.

    Let this be a lesson to anyone who does not treat the Bush administration inner circle like the inherent royalty they are!

  •  Aravosis has a copy? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Anyone know how he got a hold of it?  I couldn't find that info on his blog.  Just curious.

    As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another. Proverbs 27:17

    by gpm on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:20:03 PM PDT

    •  Actually... HERE is how... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Step One: On Tuesday, September 12, contact American Airlines

      VOICE: 1-800-433-7300 or 1-800-882-8880

      FAX: 1-817-967-4162


      Tell them that you watched Path to 9/11 the previous night.
      Tell them that you never knew that they were responsible for the deaths of thousands of americans.
      Tell them that you are too terrified to every fly on American Airlines again.

      Step Two: Sit back and watch AA's attorneys turn ghost white and sue ABC/Disney for defamation.

      •  Filled in the form thusly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Just wondered if you realized that the ABC so-called docudrama "Path to 9/11" shows that your airline is responsible for letting Atta on the plane, even though a security warning popped up? You might want to issue some sort of press release, noting that this is not correct.

        Or, you might want to sue them for defamation. After 30 million people learn that American isn't safe (falsely), you'd probably have a good chance of winning.


        Enjoy the movie!

        Bruce Maples

        Louisville, KY

        Bruce in Louisville
        "Fight them till hell freezes over, and then fight them on the ice." -- Van Os

        by bmaples on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:43:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  And here is mine: (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jesterfox, pmoyle70

        "My extended family has been AA customers for at least 40 years and I always try to choose AA if at all possible. I grew up listening to AA sponsored radio shows at night  - in the Dallas area. For this reason, I want to make sure you realize that the upcoming ABC special, PATH TO 9/11, depicts American Airlines as negligent in ignoring security protocals and allowing one of the highjackers to board.

        Although I have not yet viewed the series, I have read this several places and feel that you should be alerted BEFORE the show airs to millions of viewers. If the show does indeed depict AA as partially responsible for the 9/11 tragedy, I see it as a direct attack on your company, stockholders and customers. Thank you for your time."

        BTW - one of my retirement funds does hold AA stock, so I guess there is some future claim there, also??

        The truth always matters.

        by texasmom on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:26:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  AA Lawyers (0+ / 0-)

        Here you go.  We can e-mail directly.  

        AA Lawyer Directory

  •  Gerstein - Disney- ABC Connection (3+ / 0-)

    I for one, am very disappointed that Kos hasn't informed us that Dan Gerstein is also in charge of the Disney/ABC fabricationumentary department.  How else could a fiasco like this one happen when it so closely mirrors the implosion of the Lieberman campaign.  I want answers to this one, please.

  •  Cyrus Nowrasteh (9+ / 0-)

    engaging in sockpuppettry?

    Shyly listed as "Anonymous" but giving a home town of Camarillo, CA - the solitary reviewer of this film described it as "Witty, bold, brazen, irreverent, affectionate, a real kick in the pants!"

    The reviewer went on to further extol the virtues of the movie - saying: "You gotta take it the way it gives it---with a great sense of humor. Yummy!"

    A little research about this shy solitary reviewer revealed that he/she had officially registered with IMDB under the name "ysteb". Though, somewhat strangely, this reviewer had never seen another film or TV show that inspired even one more review! And, shortly after writing this rave review of Cyrus Nowrasteh's masterpiece - terminated his/her IMDB account. Perhaps feeling that nothing else created in cinema's 100-year history - nor in succeeding years - could ever surpass it.

    FACT: Cyrus Nowrasteh's official biography states that he lives in Camarillo, CA.

    FACT: Cyrus Nowrasteh's official biography states that his wife's name is "Betsy"

    FACT: "Betsy" spelled backwards is..... "ysteb"

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:20:32 PM PDT

  •  American Airlines (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bornadem, suskind, Riff

    may have a defamation suit b/c AA, the corporation, isn't a "public figure" in the same way Clinton is.  Plus, this sceen could harm its shareholders.  Plus, all they would have to prove is that the people behind this movie were "negligent" when including that scene.

    It's not easy being a Floridian.

    by lawstudent922 on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:20:46 PM PDT

    •  Sez who? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lawstudent922, suskind

      I would absolutely consider American Airlines to be a 'public figure.'

      But the lies have already been pointed out. I think this already meets the 'malice' test for Albright, Berger, and that ambassador -- plus AA.

      •  They are a public company (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        suskind, Riff

        not a Public Figure.

        Public figures run for office.  They ASK to be paid attention to.

        AA, at its core, is a company.  It no more invites slander than the local mom and pop store.

        •  Nope. (0+ / 0-)

          The outrageous Santa Clara/Railroad SCOTUS decision in the 19th century ruled that corporations should be generally considered "persons" for legal purposes.

          •  Let me figure this out: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Libel: Identification
            Plaintiffs must prove that the alleged defamatory publication refers to them. This element of a libel lawsuit often is referred to as the "of and concerning" principle: there can be no liability if the statement at issue is not proven to be "of and concerning" the plaintiff.

            Governmental entities cannot bring libel claims, nor can members of large groups (usually 25 or more). However, if the statement at issue can be interpreted as referring to a particular person in a group, that person can sue. Also, if the offending information pertains to a majority of the members of a small group, any member of the group has standing to sue.

            A corporation may bring a libel claim if the alleged defamatory statement raises doubts about the honesty, credit, efficiency or prestige of that business. However, if the statements refer only to corporate officers, the corporation cannot litigate on their behalf.


            In any event, even if a "corporation" is considered an "individual" does not therefore become a "public figure" who cannot sue.

            The actual malice standard only applies to public officials or public figures who sue for slander or libel. Other examples of public officials include elected officials, such as governors or senators, or non-elected government employees with substantial responsibility or control over public affairs. Courts have held that candidates for public office also are public officials and must prove the actual malice standard before prevailing in libel or slander lawsuits.


          •  Right (0+ / 0-)

            how does that square w/ the fact that corporations are not protected by certain amendments, specifically because a corporation is not a person. (like the 5th amendment right not to incriminate yourself).

            It's not easy being a Floridian.

            by lawstudent922 on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:41:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Key issue (0+ / 0-)

          Would be, as you said, whether AA invited slander b/c it is a public figure/public company/public person etc. I haven't researched this so the law may have already resolved this issue.

          It's not easy being a Floridian.

          by lawstudent922 on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:39:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  public figure (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bornadem, lawstudent922

      I agree with prior response.  Being a public figure isn't a complete bar to a libel/slander suit: 1) ABC/Gerstein published false facts; 2) ABC/Gerstein published those false facts knowingly -- e.g. they said it was based on the 9/11 Commission Report -- NOT;  3) ABC/Gerstein have been repeatedly told about their patent lies; 4) ABC/Gerstein say, so what, we are going with it.  MALICE aforethought.  I hope they get their asses sued and the damages are in the zillions.

  •  If Iger isn't paying someone (4+ / 0-)

    to follow the blogosphere, and specifically dKos, right up until this is scheduled to air, just to get warned of stuff like this -- he is nuts.

  •  Anyone a registered member of Flyertalk? (0+ / 0-)

    Its a pretty large forum. I don't see any mention of this issue posted there. I'm not registered so I could't post anything.

    "This is a new day. We will not be silent" Mayor Rocky Anderson Salt Lake City, Utah Aug.30,2006

    by Esjaydee on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:21:24 PM PDT

  •  Contact AA (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bornadem, DaveW, raincrow

    Here is the contact page to contact American Airlines and ask them if these stories are true - and if they are not true we should ask them to join our fight to prevent this film

    Work together to save the world.

    by Sarahkatheryn on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:21:57 PM PDT

  •  HUNTER! Place AA's Contact info in your Post! (4+ / 0-)

    VOICE: 1-800-433-7300 or 1-800-882-8880

    FAX: 1-817-967-4162


    Tell them that you watched Path to 9/11 the previous night.
    Tell them that you never knew that they were responsible for the deaths of thousands of americans.
    Tell them that you are too terrified to every fly on American Airlines again.

  •  Here's another guy who might (15+ / 0-)

    have a lawsuit

    This is a story from this month's Yankee Magazine. It's about Michael Tuohey, the actual US Airways ticket agent who let Atta on the plane in Portland.

    It makes clear he didn't feel he had a choice. It also makes clear the poor man has been absolutely haunted by this for five years.

    Attaway, Disney. Kick a poor innocent man in the nuts, a man doing his job the best way he knew how, who's already suffered enough guilt over this.


    "This site is the suckiest suck that ever sucked a suck"--Thomas Kalinowski

    by ChurchofBruce on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:27:01 PM PDT

  •  Dropped a line (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bornadem, raincrow

    to AA.

    "Computer. End holographic program...Computer? Computer?"

    by kredwyn on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:28:34 PM PDT

  •  One more new Disney logo (16+ / 0-)

    Do with it what you may!

    Read my lips: we do not torture.

    by captnjaq on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:29:49 PM PDT

    •  fantastic (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      At the risk of being too obsessed with things I don't often understand, like themes, memes, narratives and "framing," the big picture to the general public is "Disney is in the tank for the GOP."

      That graphic says it all. The fact that they were so sloppy as to get the airport and the airline wrong, apparently, only confirms that Disney is in the tank.

      And as an aside, while of course many in Hollywood are our allies, I could give a rat's ass what ABC division did it, nor what mid-level executron fucked up. Iger clearly hasn't dealt with this, and now his company will pay the price.

      The Mouse is a Liar.

  •  I've got (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Who wants to help me out?  I have my own diary on the topic here, but it's not getting much traffic.  I need some bloggers and some expertise - I've got a vision for the graphics and I have a friend who can put that together for me, but I need lots more help

    I liked it better when god spoke to people by burning bushes...

    by AnotherMassachusettsLiberal on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:30:36 PM PDT

  •  Atta flew Colgan Air, not US Airways (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elwood Dowd, raincrow, jkilkullen

    Not a big deal but to be historically accurate, Atta & cohort flew a commuter carrier called Colgan Air to Logan from Portland. Not sure if it is/was a partner  of US Airways. Just a puny regional carrier.

  •  Bush will be on Primetime after the TUESDAY show (4+ / 0-)

    Yes Bush will be on Primetime for an hour after the tuesday show.  In a carefuly edited interview he will help America understand his actions since 9/11.  Further bluring the lines between fact and fiction, documentary and Goebbels propoganda machine (as if Mondays break in the middle of the show by Bush isn't enought to blur those lines). This has all been scripted for a long long time.

    my favorite quote: "On a political level, I say run against the GOP as if your life, and the life of the country, depended up on it."

    by ca democrat on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:33:32 PM PDT

  •  Here is my note to Disney, ABC, et al.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rlharry, raincrow

    I think your company's decision to air "Path to 9/11" a travesty.  This misuse of the public airwaves is unwise for a public company with shareholders of many persuasions.  It should be dropped.  I hope that an emergency Board meeting is called and that the Board will put the clamps on any distortions of the "facts" of the 9/11 Report.  An alternative that Disney / ABC could apply to each frame shown:  "The scenes that you are viewing and the dialogue that you hear are a complete fabrication and should be viewed with an understanding that anything shown or spoken here is as factual as the Saturday Morning cartoons for children."

    As shown here, the disclaimer should be in bold type sufficient to completely cover the screen for the entire five-plus hours of the planned showing. Additionally, ABC should lower the sound to just below audible levels.

    Censorship is not my motive.  A purely fictional depiction is one thing, a "docudrama" that is supposedly based on a factual report is not fiction in the view of many people.  The truth, both implicit and implied is all I ask.

    I will send the same message to your Chairman, your CEO and others on the Disney / ABC team who may influence your company to do the right thing.

    Thank you for your consideration.

    Hopefully, all the input will gain some traction.  I also sent a version of my note to my local ABC affiliate.

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    by TheRef on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:35:23 PM PDT

  •  keep calling Mitchels office (3+ / 0-)

    for some reason his voicemail isn't full

    Think Progress is urging us to contact George Mitchell, Disney's Chairman of the Board.

    Senator George J. Mitchell
    T: (212) 335-4600
    T: (212) 335-4500
    F: (212) 335-4605

    from this diary yesterday Keep the Pressure on ABC/Disney

    To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men~~ Abraham Lincoln

    by Tanya on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:37:25 PM PDT

  •  I say show it (0+ / 0-)

    I think they should have to show it biggest reason bush wants to make a prime time speech that night and any thing would be better than hearing bush and from what I read it is such a big lie only a thick skulled Republican could believe it. And it would show ABC true colors

    Where does the REPUBLICAN cup of kindness runith; it runith right up your ass

    by roxnev on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:38:58 PM PDT

    •  Not sure you're right about "only (0+ / 0-)

      a thick skulled Republican could believe it."  A few million people haven't heard about this controversy, and they may be willing to believe the lies about Clinton, Albright and the others.  After all, they can say they saw it on TV!

  •  Shorting AMR stock in after-hours trading (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bornadem, jkilkullen

    Man I wish I had the ability, like the big players do, to 'short' American Airlines stock in 'after-hours' trading this weekend.  They are going to make a killing.
    Watch as it begins to plummet Monday morning.

  •  Commercial slander (5+ / 0-)

    It is a LOT easier for a business to sue for slander to its professional reputation than for a public official to do so.

    This could get horrendous.  But I won't care directly, at least not for watching.  I have Manning v. Manning on my mind.  I am ready for some football.

    Make Crablaw Maryland Weekly your source for Maryland legal and political news and commentary. (-1.88/-5.69)

    by tbrucegodfrey on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:40:51 PM PDT

  •  US Air and American Airlines (0+ / 0-)

    Aren't US Air and American Airlines owned by the same companies? Aren't they linked in some way? Or wasn't this the case five years ago? Or am I wrong about this?

  •  Geez I'm beginning to wonder (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JohnInWestland, pmoyle70

    I'm beginning to think that this movie isn't about 'getting' Clinton so much as it is getting people to sue ABC and Disney for showing something with such horrible inaccuracies!
    They get hit enough ABC goes down first and the vacuum get's filled by FOX.
    Disney goes down and gets filled by... who knows what...
    Maybe the tone of our complaints should be more along the lines of the "Far Right" is out to get ABC so another major station can take over all thier local station slots as they lose money to law suits.

  •  The good news is... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Noisy Democrat, WisVoter, schumann

    ... we know, because its been told to us over and over, that movies, TV, and music have no effect on people's behavior. Therefore, this won't change anyone from voting for Lamont for instance. We are safe from worry. These types of things just don't change people's behavior. If we were to admit that fact then we would have to admit that video games, coarse language on tv and sex in movies were having an effect on our culture, shaping our perceptions and actions. We know that is not true. Its been told to us.

  •  I had been fretting (7+ / 0-)

    about the daunting responsibility we have to destroy the Mouse.

    And now I see the Mouse eagerly chewing on rat poison.

    A relief.

  •  H.L. Mencken once said (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
    9.11.06 - looks like Mickey will give it to 'em, "good and hard"

  •  Somewhere. In some darkened room, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bornadem, LivesInAShoe, Sagittarius

    film editors with sweaty armpits, headaches and growling stomachs.  Assistants hovering, watching the clock.  No time to eat.  No time to breathe.  We're in deep shit!

    Elsewhere.  Floor to ceiling, windowed-offices, occupied for a second weekend.  Red, angry faces behind mahogany desks, spewing a liberal dose of profanity. Blah, Blah Cunningham and blah, blah the g--damned attorney.  You're in deep shit!

    Somewhere.  Lost, but at home in LA.  Nice house.  Dressed in unused tennis whites, lost in legal strategy and an afternoon martini.  He needs it, unsteady nerves. Suddenly looks around the room.  Nice house.  He'll miss it.  Phone rings again and he swallows hard.  I'm in deep shit!  

    On a busy street in Saturday traffic, white truck, orange and blue logo.  F-E-D-E-X. Irritated driver, just wants to go home.  Not too happy with the dispatcher. It was suppose to be ready last night.  I don't know.  Something to do with American Airlines. How long?  I'm sick of this shit!


  •  I hope Bill Clinton, American Airlines, all of em (4+ / 0-)

    finally move beyond outrage and complaints and seriously lawyer up on these bastards. They can all use the Sunday yakkers to unleash hell on ABC and Disney. Complaining is forcing a lot of rearranging the deck chairs on the SS Wingnut Smear, but it isn't killing the project.

    I don't think its too late to kill this. ABC colluded with the worst dreck of the rightwing to smear and lie its way into changing the history books. That's beyond the line being crossed and it should be killed like a parasite.

    That's what massive lawsuits are for. It should have been done on Wednesday or Thursday, but what can you do? Hit 'em on the eve of the broadcast with news that a dozen megamillion dollar cases are going to be filed on Monday.

    The only thing these smear merchants understand is the risk of losing hundreds of millions of dollars in multiple slander and defamation suits.

    War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. ~General Smedley Butler

    by LeftHandedMan on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 12:59:11 PM PDT

    •  Best of all? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Noisy Democrat, raincrow

      When the hacks who produced and wrote this dreck are served with their papers... the rightwing will talk a good game about what martyrs they are and then write them off and they will be eaten alive.

      It lets every creep out there like them know that they won't get away with this, and the rightwing echochamber will let them be destroyed as soon as they don't need them anymore.

      Seeing that your "friends" in slime will let you get thrown under the bus as a wannabe echochamber kingmaker who gets caught in the embryonic stage is a great deterrent to this happening again anytime soon.

      War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. ~General Smedley Butler

      by LeftHandedMan on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:05:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  TPM has a good development: (6+ / 0-)

        Husband Of Former Disney Records Exec Killed On 9/11 Writes To ABC's Iger: I "Urge You Not To Air This Film"
        By Greg Sargent | bio

        John Beug, the widowed husband of Carolyn Beug, a former vice president at Walt Disney Records who was on the plane that slammed into 1 World Trade Center, has written a letter to ABC chief Bob Iger pleading with him not to run the film. A source provided us with a copy of the letter.

        It reads, in part: "I am writing to express my concern and deep reservations about this film and to ask you, out of respect for the victims of 9/11 and their families, not to air it...I strongly and respectfully urge you not to air this film."

        Widower Speaks Out

        War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. ~General Smedley Butler

        by LeftHandedMan on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:08:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Will it be possible to write them off like that (0+ / 0-)

        if they have evidence that can be used to hang it on people much more prominent than themselves?

        Katrina was America's Chernobyl.

        by lysias on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:25:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Sovyetsky Soyuz (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    So I'm reading this on TPM

    ...Murty returned with a glowing review for FrontPageMag that emphasized the film's partisan nature. "'The Path to 9/11' is one of the best, most intelligent, most pro-American miniseries I've ever seen on TV, and conservatives should support it and promote it as vigorously as possible," Murty wrote. As a result of the special access granted by ABC, Murty's article was the first published review of The Path to 9/11, preceding those by the New York Times and LA Times by more than a week.

    and I think, I must be living in the Soviet Union now.

  •  help ABC - edit Wikipedia to match the movie! (4+ / 0-)

    It is WIKIREALITY!  ABC is seeking help to edit 9/11 related entries in Wikipedia to reflect the facts of the movie.  Then the fact will be "true" all the stupid liberal protests and lawsuit discussions will be irrelevant.  

  •  My TV section (0+ / 0-)

    which comes with my Saturday paper is showing the movie as scheduled tomorrow and Monday. With the most neutral description of it, just as you'd imagine.

  •  This extra info (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    has officially made baby jesus cry. Also, his stuffed Mickey toy just went flying out a window, followed by projectile baby-deity vomit.

    But seriously, I think this may just be the death knell for any GOP good coming out of this production. Politicians can be ignored, even those who file lawsuits, but big business, especially airlines who are so tightly wound that they're one board meeting from tasering any and all passengers upon boarding to lower toilet tissue overhead? Them guys is DANGEROUS!

    "[R]esistance was a choice [of] how to live in the moments before we died." - Marek Edelman, officer of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising

    by Chaoticfluffy on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:04:57 PM PDT

  •  Anybody Know Harvey Keitel's email addy (0+ / 0-)

    I was thinkin' someone should e-mail him the idea of taking an ad out in the newspaper to tell people he didn't he was being suckered into this movie...

    Take Care All... PLHeart..

    by PLHeart on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:08:01 PM PDT

  •  it's obvious why the Rs are so keen to save it (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow, Iowa Boy

    I can certainly see why you're so keen on saving this piece of crap.

    It's the centerpiece of their campaign strategy, ie,

    lie and fearmonger to the American people about terror.  Make stuff up if it helps.  Means/ends, etc.

    The problem we need to solve is how to make this backfre big time on their asses.

    I have had enough.
    I'm calling Dem Headquarters in my county on Monday to volunteer.

  •  tsk tsk tsk... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bornadem, raincrow

    ...just like ABC, Disney, and the right wing freaks to blame American first.

    (rolling eyes)

  •  OK, dammit. (7+ / 0-)

    This is what I'll do.
    I do afternoon drive at a reasonably popular radio station.
    Some of you know what station and where.
    I will be on the air Monday afternoon, and would be willing to take and air calls from "listeners incensed about the lies they saw on TV last night."
    Yep. You got it. ON 9/11.
    Calls must proceed from the assumption that I'm...uh..less aware of the issue than I actually am.
    "Did you see the....did you know that....this is shameful! I am angry!"
    I will be on the air from 2-6pm EST tomorrow.
    If you would like the phone number, and other information necessary to play an irate listener, please email me at the addy in my profile.
    Callers with Southern accents will be particularly effective; I'm in Virginia.

    Be vewy vewy quiet. I'm hunting wepwicants. (-8.50/-7.13)

    by kestrel9000 on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:15:50 PM PDT

  •  Just a thought (0+ / 0-)

    With the obvious and intentional mis-contruction of events, might it be possible that it was done with the purpose to incite. If some misguided individual were to take some illegal action in response to and as a consequence of this fakeumentary, would not Disney share blame?

  •  Have you at long last, sirs, no shame? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lunacat, Riff, raincrow

    AA was one of the victims of the first 9/11.  And now Disney/ABC is making it a victim all over again.

    Katrina was America's Chernobyl.

    by lysias on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:21:32 PM PDT

  •  Boston liberals vs. independent Mainers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dewtx, raincrow

    Yeh, I hear the arguments that changes of this kind are made to compress time and simplify the story line.  But the changes are not random.  It's "Boston liberals" who are shown as negligent, not independent Mainers.

    Why American Airlines rather than US Airways?  Perhaps to fit with Boston.  However, it's interesting to compare the labor and union practices of the two companies.

    So are we talking about nits?  I think not.

    I used to live in the United States of America. Now I live in a homeland.

    by homeland observer on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:22:41 PM PDT

  •  The ultimate framing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dewtx, LivesInAShoe

    This is it, this is the Killer Framing we've wanted for years.

    Republicans Are Liars.

    WMD's, Iraq/al Qaeda link, balanced budgets (e.g. Reagan), "I am not a crook", the Iraq war will pay for itself, and on and on and on.  PT9/11 drags it all out into the middle of mainstream conversation and ties it up with a pretty bow.

  •  What the Today Show said Friday (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    On Friday morning I happened to catch part of the Today Show when I was checking out the weather.  One of the news people (not Ann or Matt) mentioned that Democrats were upset with ABC's Path to 911.

    The thing that pissed me off is that they didn't say why Democrats are upset.  It's because it's factually inaccurate yet presented as fact.

    LA is for Lower Alabama. Also known as the Florida Panhandle for any Yankees not in the know.

    by Thom K in LA on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 01:39:39 PM PDT

  •  Beyond Goofy: Yet Another Rightwing Conspiracy (0+ / 0-)

    "Did we get the date right?  Good, then run it!"

    Apparently getting the date right is one of the few facts ABC managed to check for accuracy in its extraordinary mocku-ganda.  

    Something sure did happen on September 11, 2001, but the lead-up to those events and the events themselves were too difficult for ABC and Disney to fact check.  Now they're blaming THE WRONG AIRLINE.  Wow.  They couldn't even get that right?

    In "Animal House," Bluto (John Belushi) rants about Germany attacking Pearl Harbor.  But that was MEANT to be a joke; this isn't.

    If I'm looking for mockeries of history, I'll pick Bluto over Goofy.  Disney humor is lame, and its politics is even worse.

  •  Aravosis says he phoned AA's office (0+ / 0-)
    of legislative affairs in D.C. to warn them, and the woman he spoke to hung up on him.  Why would they ever do that?

    Katrina was America's Chernobyl.

    by lysias on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:01:20 PM PDT

    •  I like Aravosis but his style is very aggressive (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      a fax might have been better tone.  Warning about threats and lawsuits and slander typically over better (if well at all) by fax or email or U.S. Mail.  Lawyer to lawyer.  Besides, she does not know it isn't agitprop, or that she won't get subpoenaed later as someone "with material knowledge."

      In my view, the call was an error.

      Make Crablaw Maryland Weekly your source for Maryland legal and political news and commentary. (-1.88/-5.69)

      by tbrucegodfrey on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:18:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Mickey Abu-Graibe Mouse (0+ / 0-)

    Someone PLEASE host this image!  It is brilliant!
    /not mine

  •  Blog-whoring picture link to Minnie and George (0+ / 0-)

    Make Crablaw Maryland Weekly your source for Maryland legal and political news and commentary. (-1.88/-5.69)

    by tbrucegodfrey on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:20:09 PM PDT

  •  I have only one question (0+ / 0-)

    With apologies to the memory of Thomas Beckett...

    Who will rid us of these criminious propagandists? Are there no true Knights left to the republic?

    Integrity is the doing what is right in the absence of witnesses and with no other gain in mind.

    by Bobjack23 on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:43:14 PM PDT

  •  Write to AA's in-house counsel (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    keepinon, LivesInAShoe

    Frankly, if I were AA's in-house attorney, I would immediately send a letter via email, registered fail, fax, and every other means to Disney and ABC. I would send a "cease-and-desist" letter immediately to Disney and ABC. I would state that unless ther references to AA were changed, that the airline would reserve its right to seek any legal remedy.

    And if the movie still airs, at the crack of dawn on Tuesday, I would have the process server send the complaint to the court in Delaware (where most corporations are legally chartered), where Disney/ABC's transfer agents probably are. I would then have them served with a very large lawsuit for billions of dollars.

    In fact it wouldn't surprise me if AA's in-house counsel and lawyers aren't spending the weekend preparing such a complaint. For if the airline is defamed in such a fashion their attorneys would probably have no other course. For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

    by jiacinto on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 02:45:48 PM PDT

  •  Regardless ABC is now Fox-Lite (0+ / 0-)

    I don't watch Fox, I'll never watch ABC again. Hopefully people like Spader , Joy Behar, Rosie and Felicity Huffman wont renew their contracts. All Dem politicians should refuse to appear too.

    the meek shall inherit the earth

    by Howaboutthetruth on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 03:07:07 PM PDT

  •  I wouldn't expect AA to care. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If it hurts their business, they can always get yet another gummint bailout.

    •  And use it to further screw their employees n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
    •  They would care (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      They are a business like any other. If they see a negative portrayal of their company on TV that isn't true it could cost them MILLIONS of dollars, if not more. AA doesn't want to lose customers. For if they lose customers then they lose money. No business wants to go bankrupt. AA would definitely care! They would not want to lose business because of this program.

      I would write their in-house counsel/attorney a letter about this. Frankly, if their in-house counsel is aware of this documentary, he probably already is working on addressing the legal issues. If I were the airline's in-house counsel, upon hearing about this documentary, I would send ABC and Disney a "cease-and-desist" letter immediately. I would also have my staff working on designing a libel/slander lawsuit and have it ready to filed on Tuesday morning seeking billions of dollars in damage.

      At the same time, if I were AA's PR person, I would go on the offensive, take TV ad space, and run advertisements in the newspaper. I would state clearly that these accusations shown in the movie are inaccurate and demand that ABC/Disney retract them.

      For frankly AA does NOT want bad pubicility. The shareholders of their parent company, AMR, don't want to lose value in the airline. They don't want AA to be affected by negative impacts that could effect the bottom line.

      So, frankly, in terms of AA, I would write letters to their attorney and to their PR department. For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

      by jiacinto on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 04:55:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Completely baseless (0+ / 0-)

      and quite offensive.  Two planes full of AA passengers and crew were slaughtered on 9-11, and the civil aviation system was shut down for days while Saudi royals flew home.  

  •  American Airlines...Mohammed ATTA (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    True Story....I kid you not.

    I live in Burlington, Vermont, and I flew to Buffalo, New York to give a seminar, shortly after the 9/11 imposed restriction on flying was lifted. I was traveling on US Airways.  I had to fly back through Boston, which was a complete hassle.  Anyway, they dumped us off in this tiny airport in Rutland, with promises to put us on a bus back to Burlington. So we landed at 7:00PM or something, and then were told we had to wait for another planeload of passengers before the bus would leave. The Rutland airport is no bigger than your living room but, believe it or not, they had a couple of National Guard guys in their cammo and black berets, just as bored as we were. So finally, the next plane finally lands- a US Air (regional, in all likelihood) Saab 340 turboprop just like the one that had landed us there a couple of hours before- and pulls up outside on the tarmack. We're feeling pretty good, maybe we can finally get the hell out here.  The plane pulls up under the lightx,so its tail numbers become visible.  The National Guard soldier next to me points to it. "See that plane," he says, pausing for effect, "that plane's the very plane that took the 9/11 hijackers from Portland to Boston." We were both silent for a second. Finally I responded.  "If so," I said, "they should crush into a cube and put it with all the other stuff from the World Trade Center..."

    Definitely a US Airways plane.

  •  If they are in fact.... (0+ / 0-)

    Still editing the thing on the eve of its airing, that tells me how legitimate it isn't. If they don't pull this thing, it will become a watershed moment in the history of the media in this country.
    When public trust is forfeited in such an obvious way, one wonders who ABC thinks will be left to watch the rest of their programing and advertising.

    Celebrate our differences; define our core values; sell them to the independent voters; retake the Congress.

    by keepinon on Sat Sep 09, 2006 at 06:50:31 PM PDT

  •  It's not fan fiction: this is PROPAGANDA (0+ / 0-)

    I have friends who write fanfiction.  It's all about love, they want the characters and stories to go on.  They pretend it's truth, they just want to have fun.  

    This series is something entirely different.  It's slanted and biased for political purposes.  It brings to mind Leni Riefenstahl and other propagandists.  And to air it on 9/11 is really an insult to victims, their families, and the whole country.

    So let's call it by its right name -- this nonsense doesn't even rise to the level of amateur fiction -- it's just propaganda.  

  •  Disney owned networks? (0+ / 0-)

    I saw a list of the tv networks owned by disney but I cannot find it again?  Can anyone help me with that info? I am going to e-mail abc every half hour to let them know what I am watching/doing while they broadcast this 5 hour political ad.  I just want to make sure that it is not a network that is also owned by Disney.  My little e-mails won't mean much but it will make me feel a little better!

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