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Come on Denver, get your act together.

According to party sources and other Democrats who have consulted with members of the party's selection committee, NYC and Minneapolis-St. Paul are right outside the winners' circle. NYC is said to have an edge -- at least for now.

The site selection committee had high hopes for Denver, located in a blinking-blue Mountain West state with a growing Hispanic population. But one Democrat briefed on the city's presentation and bid called it "disastrous." Others confirmed that the general impression among site selection members of Denver was not positive. The city also lacks a union hotel, and even though the city's labor leaders voted to table its outrage, it remains an obstacle.

The party will choose its site by the end of the year.

The Twin Cities' bid meets the party's nominal requirements, but several Democrats involved in the process worry about extended commutes from delegate hotels to events.

Democratic donors, irate at the Republican Party's 2004 fete in their city, have urged the party to choose New York. And that city's bid has been the most impressive. One part of its presentation to the DNC consisted of a "lessons learned" discussion about the 2004 convention.

One unanticipated concern: the resolve of television networks to scale down their convention coverage. Holding the show in New York City would dramatically reduce the costs.

Some Democrats worry about the symbolism of choosing New York City over Minnesota and question whether the party will acquiesce to the cultural elitism of its donors.

Get the frackin' convention out of the coasts. I know many Democrats forget that there's a whole lot of country in between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, but that's no reason for the site selection committee to make that same mistake.

Big money New York Democrats, especially, are some of the worst. They back people like Lieberman and Bloomberg and think the universe revolves around NYC.

The networks will scale back coverage of the convention whether it's in Minneapolis, Denver, or NYC. The parties have killed conventions by scripting them to death. There is no drama, no compelling storylines. So the networks take a pass. I can't blame them.

So go somewhere where the local coverage will actually, you know, help. Colorado is a purple state moving our direction. Minneapolis is a blue state threatening to go purple. We get nothing out of having it in indigo-Blue New York.

(And to those wondering why New Orleans isn't in the mix -- the city withdrew its bid. It's not ready yet for an event of this magnitude yet.)

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:14 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I hope they pick Denver. (11+ / 0-)

    But even Minneapolis is better then NYC.  ANYWHERE BUT THE COASTS!

    "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

    by AUBoy2007 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:01:15 PM PDT

    •  What all y'all said! (0+ / 0-)

      Paging Dr. Dean!!

      Dr. YEEAAARGH Dean!!

      Hope is, after all, the currency of popular politics, and a coin surprisingly hard to devalue. -- Fred Anderson, Crucible of War

      by ornerydad on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:05:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  nearly anywhere is better than NYC (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sam I Am, angst on the outskirts

      If Denver doesn't work, then why isn't Salt Lake in the mix? They have an outstanding mayor, after all. Let's take the fight to the center of the red.

      SHED THE RED, Rocky Mountain West.

      Gary Trauner, WY's progressive candidate. Kick out Barbara Cubin!

      by kainah on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:10:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Presumabely (0+ / 0-)

        because they didn't submit a bid?  And probably couldn't host an event of this size, anyway?

        Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

        by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:14:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  doubt it's size (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          angst on the outskirts

          I'm sure you're probably right that they didn't submit a bid ... but I'll bet that's because it was never on a list that the DNC used to send out requests for proposals. It's part of that whole red-blue split that the Dems seem to take at face value & it's time to start going straight into the places that are supposedly too red to be receptive.

          Gary Trauner, WY's progressive candidate. Kick out Barbara Cubin!

          by kainah on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:23:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe it's the atttendees.. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Fast Pete

            they would rather go someplace where the transportation is good and  they can party and site see before and after the sessions. Logistics is also important. How many airlines fly directly to the chosen city?

            That's why NYC, LA, etc are top choices. NO (b/f Katrina) would also be a good choice, if it could handle the crowd etc.

            Salt Lake and Denver may not have enough hotel rooms and other amenities needed. Major convention cities have the space, equipment and all of the other necessities available to put on a good show.

            Dubya: often wrong, but never in doubt.

            by auapplemac on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:48:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  SLC is a major convention city! (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Fast Pete, kainah, hoody, Marcus Graly

              I know this is a minor point, but SLC is definitely capable of hosting major conventions.  I went there not long ago for the ASM convention, which drew something in the tens of thousands of attendees, I believe.  They have a decent convention center and a light rail line to ferry people to it, plus they have a resurgent downtown, a Democratic mayor, and the surrounding area is surprisingly beautiful.

              Oh, and they have quite a few hotels and a major airport, too.  Much of that stems from their (rather crooked) escapade in hosting the Winter Olympics, but the infrastructure is there nonetheless.

              •  NOLA was ready for this convention. (0+ / 0-)

                (And to those wondering why New Orleans isn't in the mix -- the city withdrew its bid. It's not ready yet for an event of this magnitude yet.)

                I'm guessing Ray Nagin was not.  The convention should still be in NOLA, even if the mayor's office fumbled their bid.  It's another example of our own local officials sometimes being our own worse enemies.  NOLA hosted a 30,000 strong Psychiatrists convention in August that went off without a hitch.  It's also slated to handle several other big ticket items in the next 2-3 years.  NOLA's ready, even if Nagin -- and perhaps the Dem leaders -- are not.

                As an Iraqi-American academic born and raised in New Orleans, this voter is not pleased.

                by naltikriti on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:28:09 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  I got it (0+ / 0-)

              Send 'em to Las Vegas!

              There's enough hotel rooms there!
              And it will only be on a coast if the Big One hits, or the ice caps melt.

              The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. - Henry Wallace V.P. 1941-45

              by BoxerRebellion on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:57:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  SLC is a major Delta Hub (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Fast Pete, kainah

              and has a new and heavily used light rail system.

              This is a city that has hosted the Winter Olympics in '02 so it is quite capable of hosting a national political convention.

              If Denver can't get its act together then the NDC should ask SLC to submit a bid for the convention.

              The fact that SLC is located in the reddest of states would show that we are serious about a 50 state strategy.

              (-2.75,-4.77) America let Bush play with its Army and he broke it.

              by Sam I Am on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:20:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  SLC hosted the Olympics! (0+ / 0-)

              That's a HUGE event. And I'll bet direct flights to Denver and Salt Lake are as plentiful as any major city.

              Gary Trauner, WY's progressive candidate. Kick out Barbara Cubin!

              by kainah on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 07:55:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, Salt Lake can not handle that event (0+ / 0-)

          The convention would be WAY TO BIG for a little place like salt lake.

          Right Mitt Romney?

          Slat Lake is bad b/c for now, we have no hope statewide. They can surely handle the events size though.

          •  Can it? (0+ / 0-)

            I don't remember how many hotel rooms are needed within walking distance of the Convention Center, but it's in the tens of thousands I think.  To be honest, I don't know how many downtown hotels Salt Lake City has.  If it can take a convention of that size, I stand corrected.

            Are hotels and the Convention Center in Salt Lake unionized?

            Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

            by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:58:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Olympics (0+ / 0-)

          Um ...

          They hosted the Olympics.

          George W. Bush is the "fictionalized" president.

          by bink on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:33:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Minneapolis doesn't make me want to jump... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sherri in TX

      ... a plane, but I guess I could be persuaded.  I would definitely go for Denver.  Too bad they're blowing it.

    •  Democrats are campaigning on change (0+ / 0-)

      A change in traditional convention sites would play into that. I strongly believe that Denver or Minneapolis says that, not NYC. I hope Denver can re-submit their bid, or offer changes.

      Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often, and for the same reason..unknown

      by Sherri in TX on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 05:33:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I Have To Agree With Kos.... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Basil, edavis, hoody, goodasgold, vox humana

    The nets wouldn't dare to do a complete cutback over coverage, and more people are watching the conventions on cable, anyhow.

    If the only reason they are strongly considering NYC is to placate the networks, that is a really dumb fucking reason.

    Minneapolis would be fine, but Denver would be better. Show that we are playing the Rocky Mountain states for real now......

    "It. Is. About. Winning."

    by Steve Singiser on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:02:52 PM PDT

  •  I'd love to see it in the Twin Cities (14+ / 0-)

    ...Where I live now.

    I agree with Kos...though I grew up in NYC and love it very dearly, the smart move is to get it away from the coasts and into the heartland.  And I'd love to see the GOP lose even more ground in MN.

    Colorado, Montana -- also good.

    Arizona, New Mexico also excellent.

    Go west, Young Democrats.  (But not so far as the West Coast.)

    That's where your next big electoral majority lies.

  •  Disastrous? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kainah, OLinda, gmb, hopscotch1997, vox humana

    What could possibly have been so bad as to provoke that?

    Denver would be great.

    p.s.

    kos - where's that slacker, open thread?

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:04:19 PM PDT

  •  MSP "extended commutes"? (9+ / 0-)

    The Twin Cities' bid meets the party's nominal requirements, but several Democrats involved in the process worry about extended commutes from delegate hotels to events.

    What the hell are they talking about?  The Minneapolis downtown is JAMMED with huge hotels.  It should be a no-brainer to organize everything in a compact area.  

    There must be something else going on - e.g., insufficient payoffs, etc.

    Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night.

    by hrh on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:05:11 PM PDT

    •  And it's not like there's a train (9+ / 0-)

      from all the huge hotels by the airport and Mall of America.

      ....oh....wait....

      THERE IS!

      Neil Cavuto is a GOP circle-jerking necrophiliac? (-6.88, -6.15)

      by guyermo on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:07:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and the airport is MINUTES from the cities (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eartha, guyermo, vcmvo2, boofdah

        and is a beautiful airport, too.  The convention should be held in MSP because of those facts alone.

        Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night.

        by hrh on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:11:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What you said! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hrh

          Couldn't agree more.

          By the way, hrh, thank you for your 9-11 diary about your friend Lars.  I read it too late to recommend, etc., but found it very moving.  

          I'm a native of Brooklyn NY, and knew a few people who persished in the Twin Towers, too.  Horrible day.

          •  thank you (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            chumley

            I'm glad you got to see it!  It scrolled off pretty fast.

            Minnesota/Brooklyn thing: Lars was from a Norwegian family that had lived in Brooklyn for generations.  He went to St Olaf for college and people were amazed by his Brooklyn accent.  They had never met anyone who talked like that before.

            Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night.

            by hrh on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 06:34:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Just a guess (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              hrh

              Lars might have been from the area of Brooklyn I grew up in -- Bay Ridge.  

              When I was a kid there, it still had a lot of Norwegian and Swedish people whose families had been there for a while.  It's changed a lot since then, but decades ago it was known as the "Norwegian" part of Brooklyn.  Even had a Norwegian language newspaper.

              And yeah, when I moved to Minnesota my Brooklyn accent made some people do a doule-take, too.  ;)

    •  Yeah...MSP would be cool... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hrh, eartha, Buckeye Terry, boofdah

      Minneapolis is a great city, one of my favorite places to visit. It could easily...EASILY!!!...host the Democratic convention. Good public transit, very comfortable accommodations in and near downtown and, unlike some major cities, a pretty competent metropolitan government that could deal with any logistical shortcomings.

    •  I go there for business every now and then... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hrh

      ...and not only is it PACKED with huge hotels, as you point out, but it has motor inns and motels for all budgets and preferences--from the Staybridge Suites-type of business commuters to the lowliest Hampton Inns (where I usually stay to keep my expense costs low).

      Whoever's making the decisions based on this faulty information re: "extended commutes" is freaking out of his/her skull.

    •  Between St. Paul and Minneapolis (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman, hrh, eartha

      The actual convention would be held at the Xcel Center in St. Paul, still I don't think it would be that much of a commute.  I hope the DNC chooses the Twin Cities.

      •  That's what makes the Twin Cities bid disasterous (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        If one want s convention, they key would be to avoid holding it in the least convenient venue possible.  There is no light tail line, and I think the logistics of hauling everybody from Minneapolis to St. Paul would be a nightmare.  Given that Minneapolis has the great majority of hotel rooms, restaurants, venues, airports, and the FREAKIN' LIGHT RAIL LINE, holding the convention 14 miles to the east seems insane.

        •  We do for the state fair (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Phoenix Woman, hrh, eartha

          Thousands every year are transported from Minneapolis to St. Paul with relative ease.  Plus the DNC are the one's who choose the Xcel Center over the Target Center and Metrodome.

          •  State fair busses = pain in the ass compared to (0+ / 0-)

            light rail, plus the logistics of transporting convention traffic is different (and therefore considerably less likely to go as smoothly as something the city does every year).  

            I realize the DNC chose the Xcel, which is more evidence of how badly Democrats suck at strategic planning.  Let's take the perfect spot for a convetion, then move said convention 14 miles away.  Excellent.

            •  compared to NYC, logistics = piece of cake (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              eartha

              You can get from Minneapolis to St Paul in the time it would take to go 5 blocks in NYC.

              Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night.

              by hrh on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 06:44:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Only if you're driving (0+ / 0-)

                If you're in NYC, you don't use a car.  You walk or take
                the subway.  And if you take transit, it's way faster to go from Manhattan to Brooklyn than to get from Minneapolis to St. Paul by car (let alone by bus).  I've done both.

                -5.63, -8.10 | Libertarian Liberal

                by neroden on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 09:49:16 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  The airport is closer to St Paul, actually (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          eartha

          Do you live in the area?  I lived there for 9 years.  It's incredibly easy to get around.  St Paul has a lot to offer, too.  

          Yes, there are still FEMINISTS on Daily Kos! Join the fabulous Supervixens every Thurs. night.

          by hrh on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 06:42:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Pity they haven't built the University Ave line (0+ / 0-)

          Then it would be just fine to hold the convention in St. Paul.

          As it is, the lack of decent public transportation in any corridor except Hiawatha is pretty deadly for the bid.

          One thing NYC has in spades is public transportation.  If they hold the convention in NYC, I hope they push that, and tell the rest of the country that with Democrats in Washington, we will fund good light rail systems for all the other big cities.  :-)

          -5.63, -8.10 | Libertarian Liberal

          by neroden on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 09:47:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  St. Paul = nightmare (0+ / 0-)

        Sorry. I lived in Mpls for 10 years -- I'm in NYC now. But St. Paul only exists -- if then -- during business hours and for hockey matches at the Xcel. Otherwise it is a lovely, empty, deserted shell of a town at night.

        Hold the convention in Minneapolis for petesake, where they don't completely roll up the streets at night. Not completely, anyway.

    •  Two downtowns (0+ / 0-)

      I think they may be analyzing the bid based on the nature of the twin cities' nature themselves. Sure, either Minneapolis or St. Paul would be great places to host the convention, but the problem is that there is indeed a commute between the two. One would be great, but two is not as feasible. That's what I'm getting from it.

      That said, they make it sound like the distance between Minneapolis and St. Paul is some major chasm. It doesn't take as long to get between the two at all!

  •  If they come have their convention in NYC (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DocGonzo, boofdah, Petronella

    I'll be there to meet them with a flaming pitchfork, and so will lots of other possessive New Yorker assholes who think our city gets enough lame tourists and cheesy press coverage.  I don't care which party it is.  Don't clog my friggin' streets!

    Kidding.  Sorta.

    Besides, Denver would be nicer.

    -2.75, -3.90 -- Please don't eat the moderates.

    by iCaroline on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:05:22 PM PDT

  •  Denver, Denver DENVER! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Liberal Thinking, dem4evr

    And wouldn't it be great to hold some sorts of run-out events to Wyoming (not that far away) and feature the other "Dem Heroes of the Rockies?" Show the Rockies you care, and you have some good friends!

    The law is slacked and judgment doth never go forth: the wicked compass about the righteous and wrong judgment proceedeth - Habakkuk 1:4

    by vox humana on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:05:35 PM PDT

    •  we could take over the mint (4+ / 0-)

      and stop our out-of-control deficits that way...

      ...just a thought

      Neil Cavuto is a GOP circle-jerking necrophiliac? (-6.88, -6.15)

      by guyermo on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:07:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, yes, OK (0+ / 0-)

        that's one idea....

        I was thinking maybe some brilliant photo ops in Wyoming featuring the environment in a positive way that shows the Democratic party cares about the concerns of ALL Westerners (and I hope it does).

        This area (at least MT, CO, NM and AZ) seems so hungry for people who want to listen to them.

        Tester, Tester, 1, 2, 3...?

        The law is slacked and judgment doth never go forth: the wicked compass about the righteous and wrong judgment proceedeth - Habakkuk 1:4

        by vox humana on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:10:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  not that far away :-) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vox humana

      some sorts of run-out events to Wyoming (not that far away)

      Sitting here in Laramie, with Denver closer than just about any location in Wyoming, that gave me a good laugh. And Cheyenne is even closer.

      Trust me, in western terms, even Montana is "not that far away" from Denver. And don't forget about New Mexico.

      Denver and the Front Range have some great, dynamic peace communities, as well.

      I still say, if not Denver, why isn't Salt Lake even being considered. Look at their mayor and congressman, DNC.

      Gary Trauner, WY's progressive candidate. Kick out Barbara Cubin!

      by kainah on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:14:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Believe me, I know. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kainah

        I lived in Bozeman for four years (and loved it)! It was two hours to the nearest Sears! We would drive down to Aspen to take lessons with our voice teacher over the Summer when he was there....

        Distance is a whole different thing out there, and that is a fact.

        The law is slacked and judgment doth never go forth: the wicked compass about the righteous and wrong judgment proceedeth - Habakkuk 1:4

        by vox humana on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:21:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  NO, I'm begging you (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      iCaroline, smartguy11, AUBoy2007

      Cut us some slack.  Between tourists and politicians, we've got all the gridlock we can handle.

      If the Earth really were your mother, she would grab you with one rocky hand and hold you under water until you no longer bubbled. -- Kathleen Dean Moore

      by Catatonia on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:08:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As a former DC commuter... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AUBoy2007, lemming22

        ....I have to agree heartily. I used to drive tour busses in DC- that was quite the challenge. Normally, my tour loop took 2- 2 and a half hours to complete. During Cherry Blossom season it took me over four hours to complete the loop. That was just brutal. I was stuck there on Independence Aveneue, trying to come up with more stories about Thomas Jefferson and his Memorial. One of my coworkers ran out of stories and, in total defiance of protocol, divided the tour in half and had a very civilized debate about whether we should have gone to war in Iraq.

        •  Nothing's changed (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AUBoy2007

          Even in the HOV lanes, traffic backs up across the 14th Street Bridge back to the Pentagon, every single day.  And since the entrance to the parking garage in the Reagan Building (where every car entering is searched) is right on 14th Street, that just makes things ever so much worse.  There are days I wonder how I make it to work without an aneurysm.

          If the Earth really were your mother, she would grab you with one rocky hand and hold you under water until you no longer bubbled. -- Kathleen Dean Moore

          by Catatonia on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:20:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My commute home wasn't so bad... (0+ / 0-)

            ...mostly since I worked long hours and got out of work at around 7:15 and I'd avoid the worst of rush hour. I lived in Vienna, VA at the time and I worked out of Brookland. It was pretty rough commuting in the morning, though. Particularly with all those godawful morning radio shows.

          •  If it wasn't for the Metro... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden

            ...DC would have died of gridlock a decade ago.  As it is, it could use a bunch more Metro lines and stops.

            •  I'd love to take the Metro (0+ / 0-)

              but I live 12 miles south of the southernmost station in Virginia.  It would take me an hour to get there in the morning rush, and then another hour to catch a train and get into DC.  As opposed to driving to a carpool lot and picking up slugs, and then going in on the HOV lanes, which takes about 45-50 minutes door-to-door.  Plus, the firm I work for reimburses for parking if you work overtime (which I do just about every night), but not for mass transit costs.  What's wrong with this picture?

              If the Earth really were your mother, she would grab you with one rocky hand and hold you under water until you no longer bubbled. -- Kathleen Dean Moore

              by Catatonia on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 03:24:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  What the hell would happen if an evac of Wash (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nasarius

        was called?

        More people would be killed trying to get out than any terrorist attack, probably.

        The War On Terra will be won when Republicans are removed from power

        by shpilk on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:26:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My guess (0+ / 0-)

          would be that most people would abandon their cars and take to their heels.

          I was running late for work on 9/11, so I wasn't part of the traffic standstill that ensued as people tried to get out of the city, but I understand it was pretty horrible.  One of the major problems is that, unless you head north out of the city, you're going to have to cross a bridge at some point.

          And the tie-ups that occur when a flake of snow appears have to be seen to be believed.

          If the Earth really were your mother, she would grab you with one rocky hand and hold you under water until you no longer bubbled. -- Kathleen Dean Moore

          by Catatonia on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:12:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Just Think Bad, Bad Winter Blizzard (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lemming22

          Think what it's like in DC when they get hit with a snowstorm.  Now, just imagine what it might be like with a really bad blizzard blasting the city - high winds, a coupla feet of snow and ice, and no power.  That's what an evacaution of DC would be like - total and complete and utter gridlock, with cars off the streets and busses piled up against telephone poles and stone walls and slid sideways across major arterials.  With the precipitation in the air and the lack of power, the emergency communication grid would be collapsing too, so it would rapidly turn into an "every person for themsleves" scenario pretty fast.  Throw on top of that Washington big wigs trying to bull their way through the jams with their limo and SUV convoys and you could soon see what sort of fun you might have.  I can readily imagine Cheney cowering in the back of his limo when he gets told that the they can't get through crowds, that they can't get relief to the convoy, that their vehicles are running out of fuel and that they might have to go on foot to someplace else, through DC.

          "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

          by PrahaPartizan on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:36:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  DC= Most underrated city in America, BUT... (0+ / 0-)

      I live in DC, and it is a fantastic city.  Much, much cooler, better, and more livable than most Americans realize.   Yes, everyone kvetches about the DC insiders, but... look beyond that, and you'll see a city with a higher percentage of people trying to change the world than any other city in America.  

      As far as holding a convention, hell yes, we'd do a kick-ass job of it.  There are great hotels, venues, restaurants, etc., and the mass transit is among the best there is.

      BUT... Kos is 100% right on this one.   This is the chance to make a splash in a swing state.  Colorado would be nice, as would any number of purple states.  Hell, even Vegas would be fine, given Nevada's purple hue.

      Look, I'd love to have it in DC or NYC (my old home).  They're both great cities that could hold great conventions, but there's simply no political benefit to be gained from either.

      Still though, I suppose it would be a better choice than Boston in 2004 -- truly one of the most asinine choices in convention history.   Don't get me wrong, I like Boston, and used to live across the river.  Lovely city.  BUT... no political advantage, and in fact, disadvantage (just what we need, more association between the Dems and Massachusetts).   And beyond that, it simply wasn't made for a convention this size.   Tens of thousands of good Dems couldn't get tickets because the venue was too small.  The events were way spread out.  It was just... stupid.

      The GOP in 2004, on the other hand, went two for two with NYC -- a locale that made them seem more moderate, and a great place to host a convention.

      If it's NYC, so be it, but... gees, you'd think we could find a city that combines political advantage and doable locale.

    •  one caveat (0+ / 0-)

      The only reason I would support a DC convention is if statehood or other full congressional representation was on the platform.

  •  Presumably Tulsa is out of the running (0+ / 0-)

    and I'm guessing that DNC 2008 won't be held in Salt Lake City or in Spokane.

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:05:47 PM PDT

  •  Or some place just straight Midwest... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vox humana

    ...like St. Louis or something. Has there been one in Chicago since 68?

    What does the billboard say? "Come and play, come and play....forget about the movement"

    by Diggla on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:05:50 PM PDT

  •  The West (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    iCaroline, vox humana

    Denver is our best bet. Ann Richards has died at 73, for those who didn't read my last post.

  •  Definitely Denver (5+ / 0-)

    Apart from the fact that it's beautiful out there, and Dems are fired up in that neck of the woods, how can it hurt to have the convention in a place where fence-sitters live?

    Love ya, NY, you know that, but enough already.

    If the Earth really were your mother, she would grab you with one rocky hand and hold you under water until you no longer bubbled. -- Kathleen Dean Moore

    by Catatonia on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:06:30 PM PDT

  •  New Orleans (0+ / 0-)

    New Orleans should be the only place even suggested.

    •  When they're ready... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      iCaroline, MO Blue, lemming22

      They said they weren't and we have to respect that.  Hopefully they'll be ready by 2012, cause I think New Orleans would be awesome.

      I also think a mid-western city, such as St. Louis would be good.

      "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

      by AUBoy2007 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:09:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  who said? (0+ / 0-)

        Who said they weren't ready?

        •  NO said that... (0+ / 0-)

          when they pulled out.

          "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

          by AUBoy2007 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:15:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  yeah but who in NO? (0+ / 0-)

            I know a lot of people that started pushing for the convention in NO 6 months ago and they live there.

            •  Obviously whoever makes the bid... (0+ / 0-)

              I assume it's the mayor's office or someother city office.

              I seriously doubt they poll the people first.

              Like I said, at this point it is moot.  But I do agree NO would be an awesome location.

              "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

              by AUBoy2007 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:21:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Mayor Ray NaGone Said (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MarkosNYC, eartha, naltikriti

          Who said they weren't ready?

          Mayor Moron pulled us out of the running because he said New Orleans could not afford the $100 million necessary to stage the conventions.

          However, I won't be surprised when he 'finds' the money if Republicans decide to put their convention here.

          Without music, life would be a mistake.

          by Cory on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:21:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Possibly Stupid Question (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nasarius, naltikriti, lemming22

            If it's the Democratic Party, why does the city have to find 100 million to host the event. Shouldn't we have found a better way to fund the darned thing by now than depending on the chosen city raising taxes or siphoning off government funds from other services?

            •  You'd Think (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Rob M, naltikriti, lemming22

              Shouldn't we have found a better way to fund the darned thing by now than depending on the chosen city raising taxes or siphoning off government funds from other services?

              Yes, we should have found a better way by now.  

              That's what's so pathetic about it all.  Very few cities in this country could ever come up with $100 million cash IN ADVANCE for an event like this. Our top convention and tourism officials were shocked when Nagin pulled out.  They know we had (or will have) all the necessary infrastructure (hotels, transportation, etc) in place in time for the convention.  Mardi Gras, Jazzfest, Southern Decadence & national conventions have all been held down here in the last few months and all have gone off without a hitch.  But convention officials supposedly insisted on so much cash up front and Nagin said it was too much to even consider.

              As I said before though, I fully expect the Republicans to want to milk N.O. for all it's worth and will find a way to have it down here, just like they did with N.Y. in 2004.  And in typical fashion, Dems will decide to hold in down here in 2012 - way past when it would do us any good.

              What better place to highlight Republican failures than here?

              Without music, life would be a mistake.

              by Cory on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:02:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  GOP not going to NOLA (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AUBoy2007

            New Orleans is not going after either convention. The city decided there were higher priorities for the money. Makes sense to me.

      •  Completely Staged Event (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        obeah, nasarius, Buckeye Terry, naltikriti

        We know the convention is a pointlessly staged event anyway, so why not completely change the format? Why not go for New Orleans, get Habitat For Humanity or the like involved, and have the democratic delegates actually out there helping rebuild the communities.

        If we're really in the situation where there's a contested candidacy, run it like a reality show - have both camps rally their supporters to rebuild a city block or whatever and have the former residents make the final decision.

        •  Interesting idea... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rob M, socratic

          shame it'll never fly.

          "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

          by AUBoy2007 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:23:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hoody

          we can get them to sing, or dance, or lock them in a house, like . . . big brother style . . . and get the public to vote them out one at a time.

          Because that's not the way our system of government works?

          And New Orleans is not in the running.  Let's concentrate on the three cities that are.

        •  Yes. Exactly. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rob M
          why not completely change the format? Why not go for New Orleans, get Habitat For Humanity or the like involved, and have the democratic delegates actually out there helping rebuild the communities.

          What purpose does the convention serve?  (This is an honest question, since I don't really pay much attention to them.)  It's a giant rally for the party; a lot of people give speeches; there's the largely ceremonial vote for the candidate, possibly a vote on the platform.  That about it, or am I missing something?   Except for the lush parties that the lobbyists throw to try to buy votes, of course.

          Well, what the hell better way to rally the party that is supposed to be about serving the people than to have them get together and serve the people?  Get out there and do some rebuilding during the day, and then have a few speeches and the necessary business in the evening.   It would be great for NO, it would be a meaningful and energizing event for the attendees, and it would be a great way for the party to re-connect with its constituency.  And, let's face it, it would be news in a way that the sterile, boring conventions of today never are.

      •  No money (0+ / 0-)

        Actually they said they couldn't come up with the money the DNC wanted from the host city.

    •  NOLA and the Mississippi: a Political Strategy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      naltikriti

      Minneapolis provides a connection to NOLA via the Mississippi:

      "The mountains (of Denver) are a pretty picture, but the Mississippi River is a political strategy," [Minneapolis Mayor] Rybak said.

      Here's the strategy: The presidential nominee will jump aboard a boat, sail down the Mississippi, and make stops along the way to end up in New Orleans.

      source

  •  Here Here (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eartha, boofdah

    I would love it to be in Minneapolis.  I could go and also stay with my sister.  Maybe doing the Republican convetion four years later is not that forward thinking.

    Does the devil wear a suit and tie, Or does he work at the Dairy Queen- Martin Sexton

    by strengthof10kmen on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:08:27 PM PDT

  •  Minnesota (9+ / 0-)

    There isn't a better town than Minneapolis.  Beautiful, nice people, inexpensive and in a part of the country that is dying for Democrats.  South Dakota, North Dakota, Wisconsin, and Iowa.  Five states that look to Minneapolis as the big city.  That would be a great place to have a convention.  Forget the played out New York thing.  If I have to hear another thing about 9/11 and New York, I'll die and so will most of America.  Even better, it will be 2008, and Al Franken will likely be running against Norm Coleman.    

  •  Who cares where it is, just make it like (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LarryInNYC, Grand Poobah, boofdah

    it used to be, all evening and all day long. Give it the old spirit and fight.  Fair trade.  NY for longer coverage.

    "The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades."--Pat MacDonald

    by hopscotch1997 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:09:12 PM PDT

  •  It would be great in MN... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman, eartha, MO Blue, vox humana

    ...and I'm not just saying that because I live here.

    Actually, I am, but it would still be a great place for the national party to focus on for a while.

    Also, unless they have already decided and I missed it, the GOP is looking hard at MN as well.

  •  New Orleans (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kainah, iCaroline, lightnessofbeing

    We have a lot of evacuees here in Houston who would love to go home, but the city still has much construction ahead before it can be truly habitable. I've not been over there yet, but folks I've talked to say they're not going to have the facilities at the rate things are going. It's a damn shame.

    •  "a damn shame" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      obeah

      I appreciate the sentiment but it is, of course, much worse than "a damn shame." It is criminal neglect and a blatant capitalist exploitation amounting to ethnic cleansing.

      None of that, of course, is aimed at you, HoustonTim. I just get so very fucking angry when I think about what is being allowed to happen to one of the greatest of American cities.  

      Gary Trauner, WY's progressive candidate. Kick out Barbara Cubin!

      by kainah on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:18:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Have the Dems Pitch In (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Olds88, kainah, obeah

        Throw up tents or trailers, bring Habitat for Humanity into the planning and have the Dems actually help with the rebuilding. Speeches can be made out in public like Dubya's staged event, and if there's really a contest for a candidate, set it up like a reality show - have both sides rebuild a block, and have the former residents decide the winner.

        •  Habitat for Humanity (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rob M, obeah, naltikriti, lemming22

          is absolutely brilliant.

          Here is the big picture: Conventions are a joke. The don't decide shit. EVERYONE on Earth knows this. It's just a week of political theater-- bad, boring theater. So let's change the formula. Let's make it really accomplish something. Rebuilding a small portion of New Orleans would be great.

          Let's see Hillary sweat like a pig. Let's see Clark up to his knees in mud. Let's see if Kerry can install a toilet. Let's see something positive come out of this circus.

          You'll also get a whole new generation of Democrats attending.

          Or alternatively, we can once again turn on our TVs and watch some suits talk to whoever took over Peter Jenning's chair in an air-conditioned sky booth "high over the convention floor" in some convention center in downtown Whothehellcares.

          Don't get Amwayed.

          by Olds88 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:15:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  So off-topic it's a damn shame, but... (0+ / 0-)

        As horrible as it all is, I think it's pretty clear that a year later, New Orleans is no longer home for a lot of these people. It's time to make do somewhere else.

        And at the same time it's time to get rid of the corrupt bastards that run that state and FEMA.

    •  How 'bout New Orleans YKos next year or '08? (nt) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      naltikriti, falsified

      "In time you can turn these obsessions into careers."

      by looking italian on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:37:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oh Please. (8+ / 0-)

    The Democrats should have had the 2004 convention in New York.  Deciding, in 2002, not to do that was just a slap in the face.

    The convention will go, to a large extent, where the convention is wanted and where the convention can be successfully housed.  Denver would be a great symbolic location but if they can't manage to actually conduct the convention there (as suggested by the "disastrous" presentation) how will that make Democrats look?

    I like the idea of a good symbolic location, although I think the actual effect on the vote is probably overstated.  But logistics will always come first.

    Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

    by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:10:32 PM PDT

    •  I agree somewhat (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lemming22
      We should have been in NYC because of 9-11, and we should be in New Orleans because of Katrina.  Since The Big Easy pulled back it's bid, go to the next closest big city, Houston, and have the convention steps from where Katrina victims were force to flee, and will probably be left in '08.

      We really should put everything we can into putting them in New Orleans though...extend the deadline and send an all-star consulting team down to piece together a bid or something.

      And why aren't Cleveland, Miami, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh or Detroit on these short lists?

      I thought presidential campaigns were all about Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania and Michigan?

      And if we were looking west in addition to Denver, there's Phoenix and VEGAS!!!!!

      Hey Roberts lovers, a link to a CNN story PRIOR to the nomination: Big Biz Draws Up Supreme Court Wish List

      by DWCG on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 11:09:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Short lists (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eartha

        Cleveland, Miami, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh or Detroit because they didn't bid for the convention. Detroit was the closest, at least requesting information on the bid, but deciding not to go forward. Cleveland is the interesting city, as they decided to bid for the GOP, but not the Democratic convention. See my blog in my signature for all the details of Detroit's decision not to bid.

    •  Y'know... (0+ / 0-)

      ...I don't give a fuck where it's at, but this is literally obnoxious as hell, and I'd wager you'd agree Larry.

      Fine, Markos.  We'll take our electoral votes and shove em up the Dems ass if we suck so goddamn much.

      The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

      by Jay Elias on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 06:58:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Denver (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kimberley, vox humana

    I'd like to know what they did to have the presentation called "disastrous." And, the bid is "disastrous" too.

    Say no to hate, bigotry, and the author of the Fed. Marriage Amendment, Marilyn Musgrave. Please donate to Angie Paccione.

    by OLinda on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:10:40 PM PDT

  •  Boo Kos (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LarryInNYC, nasarius, Jay Elias, henna218

    A Bronx cheer for you!

    "All my soldiers in the field I will wish you safe return/ but only love kills war, when will they learn" ~Jay-Z

    by Roatti on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:10:47 PM PDT

  •  Uh, ex-CUSE, me but is there something wrong with (7+ / 0-)

    New York City that has escaped my notice?

    Which website is this?

    Have I stumbled onto freeperville by accident?

    Oh dearie me.

    I'm going home.

    •  I love NYC (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eartha, Petronella

      I just think we need to go some place new, different.  It's nothing against NYC, but we've got to branch out some.

      "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

      by AUBoy2007 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:15:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Doesn't Help The Dems (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman, bree, eartha, Petronella

      There's no benefit to a New York convention. Who are you going to persuade to vote democratic in New York state who wasn't already planning to?

      It's the middle of the country where they need to make the inroads, and the mountain west, which is already trending blue, would be a good start.

    •  It's all about positioning. (0+ / 0-)

      Maybe part of the reason that Republicans have been able to sell a vision of liberals as snobby, coastal elitists is that they haven't been aggressive about bringing their values to other parts of the country.  A convention in Denver would be a great opportunity to do that.  NYC, not so much.

      Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

      by Dale on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:25:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How's this? (0+ / 0-)

      We don't want or need another convention.  We have jobs to get to, lives to live.   We're sick of the hassle.

      Plus, put the convention in a place where it can do the party some good.  Having it in NYC makes the whole, "liberal East Coast elite" meme just so much easier to propagate.

      He never said there was anything wrong with NYC.  That's a very un-NYC attitude, we generally don't have chips like that on our shoulders.

    •  It's because... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AUBoy2007, Petronella, lemming22

      New York City is so boring and predictable that it would mean absolutely nothing to hold a convention there. What's the statement? Who are you pulling? It'd be like Republicans holding one in Salt Lake City - in fact, that may not even be correct. It'd be like having the Republican convention in Colorado Springs. Woo.

      The same for Boston in 2004 - "Hey, we're hanging out in our stronghold! In fact we're ten minutes on the T from Kerry's friggin' house! Care!"

      New York is great, but there's no trend to hold onto; the perception would (rightly) be that we were four years too late to our own dance. I have no idea why we let the Republicans own Ground Zero for the president that watched Ground Zero turn into a hole from a bunker. But it IS too late and it's time for us to grab onto the movement - and all of the exciting politics are happening in the mountains and in pissed off towns across the Midwest. Which is where populist, progressive politics came from in the first damn place.

    •  too many damn tourists as it is (0+ / 0-)

      Please, all of you: stay the hell home. Stop visiting. I'm really sick of the obnoxious crowds wearing fanny packs.

      Go to Denver, Minneapolis, anywhere. We have enough problems w/ all the idiots from Jersey and Long Island coming in every Thursday - Saturday.

  •  Minnesota's road block? = TRANSPORTATION (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman, bree, eartha, chumley

    Gov. Tim Pawlenty (R) vetoed a $7.3 Billion Transportation package - that was largely authored by a Republican, featuring a key ammendment authored by a Republican. The Governor kept his pledge not to raise taxes, I guess, but he sure raised the commuter tax - time spent stuck in traffic.

    My opponent voted against the Bill, too, despite my county suffering through the 'worst roads in the state' and the $17.7 Million of new state money for the county.

    Our crumbling infrastructure gets in the way of economic development? Who'da thunk it?

    •  Pawlenty (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman, eartha, neroden

      ...has been a disaster for transportation in the Twin Cities.  Heck, he's been a disaster for EVERYTHING.  

      Though he was quick to take credit for the very successful new light rail in Minneapolis, which he vehemently opposed for years...

      He's gotta go.

      Best of luck in your race, Mr. Kalin.

      •  Yup (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eartha, hoody

        The light rail's doing so well that condo developments are springing up like weeds along the line.  

        It's great for families who want to go catch a Twins/Vikings/Wolves game or things like Muppets on Ice or whatever:  The LR stops right outside the Dome and a block from the Target Center.  Downtown restaurants like the Old Chicago on First Avenue have seen their business shoot up, especially on the weekends.  (In fact, the busiest I've ever seen the LR is on the weekends!)  The Mall of America had originally opposed it because they thought that "the wrong element" (i.e., inner-city black kids) would swarm their nice clean suburban fortress and loot and pillage; instead, crime at the Mall hasn't budged while business has shot up.  MoA now loves the LR more than almost anyone.

        Wheelchair-bound?  Flying into MSP?  You can go from the plane to the sidewalks of downtown Minneapolis and not see a single staircase.  The LR stops at both the Lindbergh (main) and Humphrey terminals are easy to get to.  

        All in all, the light rail's making converts right and left -- literally.

  •  It doesn't matter (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lungfish, nasarius, vox humana

    People don't vote on the basis of where the convention is held.

    As someone who, over the years, lived in each of these three cities, I can acknowledge that holding the convention in Denver would be a nice gesture. But these conventions are such a massive undertaking that logistics need to be considered, too.

  •  That's more or less... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eartha, MO Blue

    ....what I thought about the convention being in NYC back in 1992. I may have only been 13 at the time, but I was thinking "how is this reaching out to people in the center?" But, it seemed to work in 1992. But we do need a bit of variety and it wouldn't be such a bad idea to have a convention out in the Twin Cities or Denver.

  •  Provo, Utah! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, shpilk, ten10, vox humana

    Now that would get coverage.

    CNN: The Most Trusted Name In News.
    Twinkie: The Most Trusted Name In Nutrition.

    by Irfo on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:12:38 PM PDT

    •  In their FACE (0+ / 0-)

      That's where it SHOULD be held.

      The War On Terra will be won when Republicans are removed from power

      by shpilk on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:18:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sure Would (0+ / 0-)

      Holding the Democratic Party's national convention sure would get coverage because the delegates would all be sleeping out under the stars.  The populatio in Provo Valley would just about double with the convention coming to town and I don't want to tell you what the traffic would be like coming down I-15 from SLC, since it's the only route which connects Provo to the airport.  With all of the delays which are likely, the speeches wouldn't start until after midnight in the Eastern and Central time zones (hmmm, might not be a bad idea after all).  You certainly couldn't let the Big Dog talk at the convention because he'd still be going on when folks started waking up back on the East Coast and see him on the morning news - live!

      "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

      by PrahaPartizan on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:25:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  How about Washington DC? Oh and the NAR (0+ / 0-)

    (National Assn of Realtors) is having their convention in New Orleans! Bravo for them!  

    Illegitimi non carborundum

    by truebeliever on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:12:39 PM PDT

  •  Whoah. (9+ / 0-)

    "Big money New York Democrats, especially, are some of the worst. They back people like Lieberman and Bloomberg and think the universe revolves around NYC."

    Whoah.  And people have the nerve to accuse Democrats of taking black people for granted?  How about THANKING New York for having the good taste to BE BLUE in the first place by having a convention there?

    God, I'm sick of this stupid (and very conservative) idea that the "heartland" is somehow more American than the "coasts."  Thanks for promoting it, Kos.  

    Bush: The Peter Principle President.

    by lungfish on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:13:17 PM PDT

    •  I read it a little differently. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tryptamine, shpilk, bree, Whitney S

      I thought maybe the point was to welcome more into the Democratic arena. By acknowledging burgeoning Democratic movements in NEW areas, the party might gain adherents who appreciate the attention.

      A rising blue tide lifts all Democratic boats...

      or something like that.

      The law is slacked and judgment doth never go forth: the wicked compass about the righteous and wrong judgment proceedeth - Habakkuk 1:4

      by vox humana on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:18:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think that's really the point (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shpilk, bree, eartha, Petronella, vox humana

      It's more that NYC as a convention locale is not a very novel idea.  Been done. Plenty.  

      The convention can be used as a way of reaching out to places that may be ready to listen to the Dems' message.

      The northeast pretty much got the message.

      Denver, like most all cities, is blue, too (one of the bluest in fact).  But it sits in a region that hasn't been for a while.  

      When elections are this tight, and the stakes so high, it makes sense to leave the coasts behind, stake out new ground, and WIN for a fucking change.

      I'm all for a midwestern or western convention.  

      And it's not because I think we're more American than you guys.

      •  Not blue enough. . . (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DWCG, vcmvo2, chumley

        Denver, like most all cities, is blue, too (one of the bluest in fact).

        to apparently offer a single union hotel.

        Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

        by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:31:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I meant in terms of voting (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Petronella

          but yeah, you're right:  that is a fucking disgrace.

          Still, is that the deal-breaker that means it just has to be in NYC?  Again?

          Shoot, you guys have got your civil rights issues to deal with, too.  If having no union hotels means we're not blue enough for dems, what about casually arresting hundreds of peaceful protesters during a--political convention?  Where did that happen, again?  Oh yeah, now I remember...

          •  Philadelphia. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vcmvo2

            Under Rendell.  And, are you suggesting that protesters wouldn't be arrested in Denver?  Or that, in the event that Republican protesters try to disrupt any Democratic convention in New York they should be allowed to do so?

            I don't think the labor situation should be the deciding factor as long as local labor is willing to waive the issue (and not picket the convention -- that would be an unacceptable situation).  But I don't know why Denver is being pushed so much when it apparently couldn't present an acceptable bid.  A messed-up convention won't help the Democrats.  And I don't think New York should be ruled out because it has too many big Democratic donors either -- even if some of them did support Bloomberg.  Or even Lieberman.

            And I'm still pissed about 2004.

            Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

            by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:43:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Right, it was philly (0+ / 0-)

              and Chicago, NYC, etc...

              Hell no, I'm not saying that there'd be no arrests in Denver.  Facism is everywhere.  That's just what we're fighting here.  Facism in it's ever-multiplying forms is exactly what keeps me awake at night, more than any other issue this country faces today.

              I'm not so stupid to think that any city could guarantee some kind of love fest for Dems.

              I just want to win the election.  

              If Denver's bid is really that weak, fuck 'em.  Try again in 2012.  But if Denver could pull off a convention and reach out to a whole region--turning it blue?  Then yes, I think it's a better choice.

              I read a couple of weeks ago about the lack of a union hotel in Denver, and also that local labor had already promised not to make an issue of it (although I hope that somehow this situation could be seized upon to promote organized labor as a distinctly Democratic voting bloc).  Me, I'm a union guy all the way.  And I think it stinks that Denver has no union hotels.  But more than that, what I want is just to win.  To win.

              •  According to the article. . . (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mrkvica, d to the f, Jay Elias

                If Denver's bid is really that weak, fuck 'em.

                It really was that bad.

                I've actually been a proponent of Denver as a DNC in the past and I do support the idea of having the convention someplace that "takes it to the enemy".  I don't particularly think doing so will help win that state (the Republicans were brilliant to have 2004 in New York, but it didn't help them to win here), but it does project a message of strength nationally.

                I just don't like seeing New York dissed in the way it is in both the article and many posts.  "Oh, God now, anyplace, anyplace, dear Lord, but New York" and "we've got to show those damn New York money people they have no place in the Democratic Party".

                Plus, I'm still steamed about 2004.  That was a first class mistake by the Democrats.

                Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

                by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:14:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Point taken (0+ / 0-)

                  about NYC.  Hell, I got nothing special against the "New York money people."  Colorado money people are just as corrupt and spineless. I don't think that anyone who actually has a say-so gives a crap about punishing your fair city.

                  And the article, while discouraging, wasn't exactly extensive.  And didn't name any sources. Whatever, maybe it's bang-on accurate. Maybe not.  

                  Like I keep saying, I just want a convention that helps Dems win. Wherever that may be.

            •  Larry, you are really a terrific commenter (0+ / 0-)

              whom I really respect. I just ask that you think about those in other areas who are working to create more blue votes..

              NYC (and all of us in the NE) are important to the Democratic party. Do we really need a Democratic convention to confirm that? Or could we welcome those who are working to build a party in less hospitable places who might support us in the future?

              This is an honest question. I don't think (I hope) anyone would question NYC's loyalty to the Democrats. Can't others share in the joy of Democracy with a capital D?

              The law is slacked and judgment doth never go forth: the wicked compass about the righteous and wrong judgment proceedeth - Habakkuk 1:4

              by vox humana on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:09:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks for the kind words. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                vox humana, henna218

                See my comment directly above.  I have no problem with having the convention elsewhere (the year to have it here was 2004, not 2008).

                Do we need a convention to confirm that NYC is important to the Democratic Party?  I wouldn't have thought so -- until I read Kos's article and some of the comments.  Now, I'm not to sure.  I'm afraid the headline on tommorrow's Daily News may read "Daily Kos to New York -- Drop Dead".

                It's not New York's loyalty to the Democrats I'm worried about, but rather the other way around.

                Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

                by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:17:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh, I can see that. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  eartha

                  And that, of course, is something I could not really understand, not living in NYC.  I readily admit that. I live in a city the party would never consider, so I have no horse in this race.

                  I would hope that this was a thought toward party building. I personally would deeply regret if anyone assumed my excitement about MSP or DEN was a slight of NYC. I am viewing it as part of the fifty-state strategy.

                  No party should ever assume its current constituents would be happy no matter what! The Dems would truly be stupid if they were to ignore the good sentiments of the northeast. My hope is thst its friends in the northeast (including those of us in the true US northeast ;-)) could welcome those yearning to join us in the march to truth.

                  The law is slacked and judgment doth never go forth: the wicked compass about the righteous and wrong judgment proceedeth - Habakkuk 1:4

                  by vox humana on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:28:49 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Bravo from Brooklyn n/t (0+ / 0-)
    •  yeah come on (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pd

      don't be hatin on new york!  This place is everything ABOUT america at its most vibrant and alive. I agree actually about having the convention "in the middle", but kos, didja really have to say "many Democrats forget that there's a whole lot of country in between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans"?? HUH??

      • adopted NYCer, home now.
    •  I don't think (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eartha, vox humana

      that's what he was saying.

      As a New Yorker, I took no offense.  And we don't need to be thanked - look at the alternative to being Democrats.  If you do want to thank us though, take the convention somewhere else!

    •  You can read it like that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mrkvica, lemming22

      but I read it the way he wrote it. We're not more American out here; the point is that we're Democrats too. Reliably blue states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan get reliably crapped on when it comes to the narrative. Blogofascism has/will alleviate that somewhat but it's still kind of there.

      Lots of people act shocked when they find out someone as liberal as Feingold is from Wisconsin, for example. Well, guess what. He's the more conservative of our two senators. And Minnesotans freakin' cried in the streets when Wellstone died. And where the hell do people suppose Al Franken and Michael Moore got those accents from?

      Hot shots in both parties are friggin' annoying. We have our big money liberals that will drop a million dollars for a condo in a shit neighborhood because they think that's "cultural" or "urban", or that went for the Lexus SUV with the hybrid option so they could bump the mileage up to 24mpg. They're not helping. And they're not liked. It's an embarrassing, cringe-producing stereotype, probably akin to what a Hispanic person experiences when Carlos Mencia opens his mouth.

      Conservatives have their howling, oil-swigging, truck-driving redneck stereotype, equally hated by most "actual" conservatives. Which is why the Republican convention isn't going to be held at Bob Jones.

      •  I got a feeling (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eartha

        that people on the coasts often have no idea how great many MW cities really are.  

        We certainly get to know how great they are.  

        I guess part of what I love about Mpls, Madison, Denver, and any number of college towns is that they're doing what they do in the middle of hostile territory. Kinda makes it more fun in a way, like punk rock used to be.

      •  Growing up in the far east of the Midwest... (0+ / 0-)

        ...(Pittsburgh), I'm more shocked that the liberals in Manhattan and the Bay Area are Dems - they have too much money and not enough connection to working people to be authentic Dems - it seems like they're Dems as a matter of taste.

        And of course, if they work for a big bank, they're quite happy gouging us with credit card interest rates, or with the media, promoting the SCLM...

        9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

        by varro on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 12:33:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Most New Yorkers are not rich. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lirtydies, neroden

           I had a friend who lived in NYC, worked very hard for a bank, and was not paid much to do it.  I live in Connecticut, and most of the junk mail I get from insurance companies and banks comes from Texas or the Carolinas.  I get tons of solicitations from Texas.  

        •  Wow. (0+ / 0-)

          Pennsylvania considers itself "midwest"?

          Someone should really do a study showing exactly how parts of the country define the "midwest".  It'd be fascinating.

          •  West of the Appalachians... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lemming22

            ...is Midwest...Pittsburgh and Erie are much more like Cleveland (as much as any Pittsburgher hates to say it, it's true) than Philadelphia.

            9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

            by varro on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 08:21:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, but ... (0+ / 0-)

              ... Cleveland's being a part of the midwest is (I gather) debatable if you get far enough west.

              Once you get past the Mississippi, people start talking about a "Great Lakes Region" which they throw Ohio, Indiana and Illinois into.

        •  I feel your pain (0+ / 0-)

          about the high interest rates, but I would argue that most people in Manhattan and the Bay Area aren't responsible for them (much less liberals in those areas).  The banks are to blame.

          Bush: The Peter Principle President.

          by lungfish on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 05:46:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Well, for whatever it's worth (0+ / 0-)

        I know that there are Democrats in the Midwest as well (and God bless them, including but not limited to Feingold, Kohl, and the late lamented Wellstone, who is one of my great heroes).  That said, I don't think Kos had to tear New York down to build them up.  The point you make regarding parallel liberal/conservative stereotypes is interesting.

        Bush: The Peter Principle President.

        by lungfish on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 05:44:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm actually more concerned... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      ...that the "New York Democrats" paragraph can be taken out of context and used by the MSM as an example of the blogosphere using "code".

      Just cut everything after Bloomberg and they've nailed you.

  •  That's OK. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman, chumley

    Look, New York sucks in summer.

    But there's always some guy who wants to have dinner in the Rainbow Room or something and that wins the debate. The familiar always does.

    But you should have it somewhere else, really.

  •  Are our memories that short? (9+ / 0-)

    NYC should be eliminated from the running if only because of the obscene treatment it gave to Democrat protestors at the Republican Convention there.  There were bystanders rounded up on the street for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and people detained in an uninhabitable holding pen for days.

    No city that abuses the 1st amendment should be rewarded with the Democratic Party's business until they prove (and I don't mean item #14 of "Lessons Learned") that they respect the rights of citizens to dissent.

    •  While bad. . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, neroden

      protesters received worse treatment in Philadelphia in 2000.

      Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

      by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:24:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And from where did Philly get its top cop? (0+ / 0-)

        NYC

        "In time you can turn these obsessions into careers."

        by looking italian on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:39:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But the cop in New York (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          think blue

          who presided over the 2004 arrests is a Democrat who served in the Clinton administration.

          This is a silly game.  All police, of all persuasions, act (and overact) to maintain "order".  People want to blame the 2004 arrests on Bloomberg, and that's fair enough -- but then what happened in Philadelphia in 2000 (in which people were arrested before even leaving to go to protest sites and held for weeks) is on Rendell.

          Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

          by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:46:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Well, since I LIVE in Philly, (0+ / 0-)

        I wasn't really going to bring that up.  But of course, the NYC treatment seemed worse.  I don't remember street sweeps like the one that took place by the Library.

        Oh, and I can't believe I wrote "Democrat protestors".  Where did that come from?

        •  In Philadelphia. . . (0+ / 0-)

          protestors were arrested before they even reached the protest site and some were still in jail (without charges, I believe) weeks after the convention.

          I don't know if there was the same "we're gonna shut down the city" rhetoric in Philadelphia in 2000 that there was concerning New York in 2004 -- you could even find it here on dKos.  It's like New York was the enemy (I guess you can still see that in Kos's attitude).  Did they go overboard?  Yes.  Was some response justified.  Also yes.

          Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

          by LarryInNYC on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:53:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  It's An Opportunity (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tryptamine, eartha, Petronella, Juneappal

    ... by holding the Convention in the heartland to showcase something other than the coasts.

    If I were working the press for the DNC, I'd be playing up the history of [insert State and City here], continually talking about the Great Center of America and its importance -- and that's a segway into why the values of the majority in this country have been sold and betrayed by the Thugs in power.

  •  "Nobody's easier to predict the movements of (0+ / 0-)

    than a Democrat" - Rummie

  •  I live in NYC (6+ / 0-)

    And this is the wrong place to hold the convention. The west is the new frontier -- whether it's Denver or Phoenix.

  •  Denver! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MarkosNYC, vox humana

    Colorado is ripe for the taking.

    Convince 'em that global warming is gonna ruin the ski slopes (sadly, it's true), and Colorado will never vote GOP again.

  •  Geez, maybe all the Hillary acolytes can (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tryptamine

    urge her to use her clout and get the convention in a central location. While Denver has its atractions, I think St. Louis or Kansas City would be better - right in the heart of the stampede away from Cheney/Bush.

    17. Ne5

    In chess you may hit a man when he's down -- Irving Chernev, on Przepiorka v. Prokes, Budapest, 1929

    by Spud1 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:19:08 PM PDT

  •  Sky-U-Mah! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman, eartha, BentLiberal

    We would love to have all the Dems here in Minnesota. Don't overlook the Mississippi National River and Recreation Area. A unit of the National Park Service that runs right through the middle of Minneapolis and Saint Paul. Scenic, historic, cultural and more.

    •  And those 15,000,000 lakes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman

      heheh

    •  Mpls also trying for Republican convention (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eartha

      I'm in the Cleveland suburbs and Cleveland is one of the three finalists for the Rep. convention.  Tampa-St.Pete and Minneapolis-St. Paul are the other.  Don't know what impact, if any, being in the running for the Rep. convention will have on Mpls's bid for the Democratic convention.  I've spent lots of time in the Minneapolis area and really love it.  Could they handle both conventions?
      Although Cleveland supposedly put in a great bid for the Rep, and would make a great choice for many of the same reasons stated here for Mpls and Denver, my guess is the Rep go to Tampa.  Tampa in August-in the middle of hurricane season.  Sums up the Republican party's planning skills.

  •  Chicago (0+ / 0-)

    It's not on the coasts, and ain't hard to get to.  Why doesn't it have a bid?  Has everyone in the city been hell-bent on the 2012 Olympic bid that no one can think to try to get the Dem convention back?

  •  I fear NYC (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MarkosNYC, eartha

    because it might seem like we're the ones trying to exploit 9-11 now. We need to CLEARLY define ourselves. We've been doing that, Lamont's win is proof. We need to stay on that track. That means: no NYC.

  •  Well (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bree

    The DNC went to NYC in 1976, 1980, and 1992. It's time that they went to Denver. They last went to Denver in 1908. NYC is not the town they should be meeting in. They should be meeting in Denver.

    Frankly it is time that the DNC held their convention out in the Rockies, South, or Great Plains. Too often they have stayed out on the coasts or up in Chicago. They need to go to a town that is more "real".

    Denver needs to get their act together. The DNC has gone to NYC way too many times. Denver should have a fair shot.

    http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

    by jiacinto on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:19:53 PM PDT

    •  Jiacinto (0+ / 0-)

      We (Denver) can't compete with NYC. We just can't, man. We've made some decent strides over the years but we're getting hit pretty hard by the economy and we can't afford to put the same goodies on the table that larger metropolitan cities can.

      This is like asking a middle class family to host foreign dignitaries with the same luxurious flair that they're accustomed to finding at five star hotels in the most globally-connected cities in the world. We just don't have those kinds of resources. It's got nothing to do with not having our "act together". It is, to some extent, a tax revenue numbers game but also about Colorado's interest in keeping urban sprawl to a dull roar so that we can preserve other state attractions and ways of life and about trying to overcome decades-old reluctance to embrace more progressive investments as means permit.

      If the DNC thought the amenities and bonus package we offered was 'disastrous,' then fair enough and to hell with them. Let them take their act to New York. That's where they really wanted to hold it all along, I presume. So let's just cut the bullshit and get this over with. Have the damned thing in New York and let's move on.

      The soul that is within me no man can degrade. - Frederick Douglass

      by Kimberley on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 07:07:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What I want to know... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda

    Who is on the selection committee?

    •  Convention Technical Advisory Group (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OLinda, Pithy Cherub, eartha

      So who's on the TAG?

         * Tom McMahon, DNC Executive Director - previously Exec Director of Democracy for America; Deputy Campaign Manager for Dean
         * Leah Daughtry, DNC Chief of Staff - Director of Convention Management for the 1992 Democratic National Convention
         * Matt Nugen, Director of Chairman Dean's Office, Deputy COO 2000 convention.
         * Joseph Sandler - former General Counsel for the DNC
         * Zoe Garmendia - 2004 site selection, 1996, 2000 and 2004 convention logistics
         * Cameron Moody - 1996, 2000 and 2004 convention logistics
         * Wally Podrazik - He's been involved with handling media logistics at every Democratic convention since at least 1980, and has been involved with site selection in the past. Wally is also an author of TV and Beatle books.
         * Diane Dewhirst - Former press secretary to Senator George Mitchell, and I believe she's done convention logistics in the past
         * Elaine Howard - 2004 site selection; former Director of Events for DNC
         * Ricky Kirshner - Producer 1992-2004 conventions

      The first three people are Dean political people, although both Daughtry and Nugen have convention logistical experience. Sandler is the lawyer.

      The rest of the group is clearly technical/logistical, not political.

      Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

      by bumblebums on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:34:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  re (0+ / 0-)

    F that.

    LA.

    That way we can all go to In-And-Out burgers afterwards...

    "Why does Mickey hate America, Steve?" - Steve Holt

    by cookiesandmilk on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:20:58 PM PDT

  •  There aren't that many places that CAN host it (0+ / 0-)

    How many places have enough hotel space plus convention facilities?  And scratch Las Vegas off your list immediately.

    That's why the coastal cities get chosen so much.

    I doubt that Denver has the hotel facilities, though I haven't been there in years.  Salt Lake is impossible, way too small.  Also politically.

    Twin cities would be stretching it, but possible, I suppose. Haven't been to K.C. in 55 years. What about Chicago.  Only problem I see there is that the governor may be slightly corrupt--and bad memories of 1968.

    Sorry Kos, but there's not much else except Atlanta between the coasts.  And Atlanta has no charm since they bulldozed the downtown.  And even whith a small subway, it's a transportation hell (Population 5 million)in a republican governed state.

    •  Actually (0+ / 0-)

      >>I doubt that Denver has the hotel facilities, though I haven't been there in years.<<</p>

      It's hard to judge but I saw a number of hotels listed in a travel guide that I happened to be leafing through and as a growing city of nearly 600,000 I'm sure that Denver has hotel facilities.

      Another interesting choice for the future, though they didn't bid this time, is the large and growing city of Columbus which does have convention facilities and a number of hotel rooms in the metro area (which does include the suburb of Dublin) though I'm not sure if it has union hotels or not.

      >>Sorry Kos, but there's not much else except Atlanta between the coasts.  And Atlanta has no charm since they bulldozed the downtown.  And even whith a small subway, it's a transportation hell (Population 5 million)in a republican governed state.<<</p>

      And they say that Democrats aren't bicostal elitists ;).

      "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

      by Mister Gloom on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:33:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How large is the convention? (0+ / 0-)

        We've got a tradeshow opening in Denver today or tomorrow that is supposed to be bringing in 28,000 visitors.  How many would the DNC bring?

      •  Hell, I grew up on a farm in Arkansas (0+ / 0-)

        So don't give me any coastal elitist crap.

        By not much else in between, I meant that could handle a Democratic political convention.  I have a tiny understanding of the issues, plus my sister founded the meetings management program at Oklahoma State U. in Tahlequa,

        Texas cities are out on the face of it; too Republican a state.  Unless there's a political recolution in November.  I doubt it, but possible.  I would prefer San Antonio though again, do they have enough hotels in a concentrated place?  Advantage of New York, for example, was that everybody could practically WALK to the convention hall, or take a 5 min subway.  Any conventioneers who sat in a bus wating in traffic I thought are abysmally stupid and deserved it.  Certainly after the first day.

        I would scratch New York off as long as we have a Republican mayor; Bloomburg.  Minnesota has a Republican Gov, but maybe not after Nov.  

        Denver:  If they can handle 28,000 conventioners, can they handle a Dem Convention?  I don't know.  I lot of political conventioneers come with their families (a plus for Colorado, take off for the mountains afterwards). More importnat, there are the hangers on, staffs, reporters, camerapersons and ther technical staff, lobbyists, demonstrators from out of town.  All of this has to be allowed for in counting up with enough rooms of the right mix.  Plus some left over so that emergency regular business can be conducted in town during that week.  Surly the DNC has computed the number and quality of hotel rooms a city will require, call them up and ask.

        Not many cities have facilities adequate to handle all this.  Though there ARE conventions far larger than the national political conventions.  Consultatnts who set up conventions have this info at their finger tips.  Might make an interesting interview.

  •  Practically speaking, it HAS to be NY or MN ..... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eartha, boofdah, NoTreason

    ....and I think it is pretty clear that MN is a better choice.  Who do we write to?  How can the blogosphere impact this decision?

  •  DENVER or Fight (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Buckeye Terry, DKHOLLA

    We need to make it quite clear to the party leaders that most of the net roots want the convention in Denver. I don't think I am being flippant here, or speaking out or turn. These are the kind of things party activist care about. Can you imagine the GOP ignoring there grassroots if they had a strong preference? With John McCain a Westerner in the front seat for the GOP 2008 nomination we need every advantage we have to fight in the West. The Party leaders are still stuck on raising money in the North East and fighting in the South. They really have ignore the Mountain West to an extent that is scary! WHY? Are they that afraid of populism? (which is the dominate strain of Western Democrats)  I think we should really raise a rucuss on this one. Let Dean know how we feel.

    By the Way I want the Mayor of SLC as the key note speaker. The GOP uses pro-choice Schwarzneger, and moderates at their convention to show people "don't be afraid of us, we are moderate". We need similar thearter. It hard to characterize  a man from Utah as a liberal extremist to much of the puplic. Some one once told me the reason Southern Democrats have allot of success runing for the oval office, is that it's hard for the GOP to characterize them in the MidWest ( the nations premier battle ground) as Left-wingers. MidWesterners general think if a guy gets elected in the South he must be a moderate. Secondly Minorities think if a Democrat gets elected from the South he must be popular with Minorities so he has to have progressive cred. This is why the GOP hi-lights so many Moderates at their convention when the general puplic is watching, but runs to the right the rest of the year.

    We need to show similar lack of orthodoxy. So let Sen Casey (D-PA) speak this time (unlike his father) but also let people know that Democrats are and will be the Pro-choice party. Just don't let unloyal Democrats (ie. Lieberman (form Sen R-CT)) speak!

    -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power"

    by dopper0189 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:22:27 PM PDT

    •  Is this the realistic fight? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman, Pd

      If you really want Denver, write to the Colorado Dems encouraging to get their act together.  If they can't do that, it is not going to do any good to fight for Denver with the national committee.  Fight for MN - at least it is under consideration.

  •  Amen! Denver and the Twin Cities are great. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman, eartha

    Either Denver or the twin cities would be great. I think Phoenix or perhaps somewhere in Texas with a  good enough number of Democrats (Austin or maybe even Houston)should also be considered. The Hispanic vote is not as Democratic as many people think and we could do more to woo over this crucial demographic. Holding our convention in a border state probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

    Right now, I'm a Denver person but I'll be happy as long as it isn't in California or the Northeast.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

    by dem4evr on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:23:05 PM PDT

  •  Put it in New Orleans anyways... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rob M, thinkdouble, bree, naltikriti

    hold the convention in fucking tents if you have to.

    Yes, I am serious.

    Don't get Amwayed.

    by Olds88 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:23:25 PM PDT

  •  Idiots. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Olds88, Gooserock

    Pardon my French, but who Hell makes these decisions? Do they really act out of a desire to have Democrats fucking win, or just to make their own lives easier? Can anybody think strategically and competitively?

    How about Nashville? Chicago? Dallas? Phoenix? Atlanta?

    Maybe there's leftover campaign literature from the Republican convention in 2004. Just cross out the dates and the party name and you're all set.

    Brainless. Just when are they going to get serious?

    The pet goat drowned in New Orleans.

    by thinkdouble on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:26:09 PM PDT

  •  Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Chicago/Milwaukee? (0+ / 0-)
    •  I'm from Wisconsin... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman

      and Milwaukee is great but it takes a certain breed to like it. It's not very photogenic.

      Let me stop pussyfooting.

      Milwaukee is a shell. Not much convention space, and hotel rooms would be lacking. We weren't able to retain fucking ComicCon for lack of them.

  •  NYC for sure (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shawn, lirtydies

    It should be here.  It really should have been here in 2004.  If we have to have every fucking Democratic convention from here to eternity to keep the Republicans out, that's fine by me.

    Just the thought that that Republican 911 orgy was held in the city that voted 90% against Bush and his supposed ability to keep us safe makes me physically ill to this day...

    "Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play." - Joseph Goebbels

    by gerbbils on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:27:59 PM PDT

  •  More I think of it. (0+ / 0-)

    Hell, get in people's faces.  Go to Salt Lake City, Utah.  

  •  Minneapolis, Yes. NY, No (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eartha

    Very disappointing that the DNC didn't get Ohio or Missouri into the mix.

    Denver is not ready for primetime with their presentation being called "disastrous".

    The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of crisis, remain neutral.

    by ten10 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:33:28 PM PDT

    •  Would've liked to have seen Columbus, OH (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chumley

      I would have liked to see Columbus as a choice.  They have a fairly thriving city with a well-liked Democratic Mayor and in a city of over 700,000 with a number of business headquarters (nationwide, Huntington Bank, Wendy's, Bob Evans, Cardinal Health, and Big Lots are all headquartered in the metro area) they probably have a number of hotels.  The downside is that apparently mass transit is not heavily active in the city so sprawl and commute times could be a problem.

      "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

      by Mister Gloom on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:37:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  GOP, meanwhile, is weighing... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eartha, Buckeye Terry, Petronella, DKHOLLA

    Tampa, Minneapolis, NY and Cleveland.  Cleveland is the front runner.

    Notice that two (and a half) of those cities are in swing states.

    We should be looking at PA, FL, OH and .... OH.  Since we are not, we should be in Minneapolis.

    •  GOP Likes Liberal Towns. Cleveland, NYC -- (0+ / 0-)

      They like rubbing faces into the dirt.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:38:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Cleveland is definitely in the running (0+ / 0-)

      but don't have the feeling that it's the front-runner.  While I would like the publicity for the city and area, and actually summers on the Great Lakes are really pleasant, I think I would have to leave town.  All of those Republicans, ick.

  •  dems in nyc (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tryptamine

    I think they should stay in New Orleans in FEMA trailers and pay for the priveledge.  Maybe they will learn something.

  •  I believe NYC would be the right place (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shawn, trinite

    Okay I am from NYC but that's not my reason.  

    2008 needs to be a reminder to the American people that Bush and the republicans are miserable failures on national security, that they ignored the warnings of 9/11, that Osama is still out there, that they misused our troops for the lie in Iraq.

    There is no better place for that message to get hammered home than in New York City.

    For 2012 and 2016 I would enthusiastically support Denver and Minneapolis as host cities for the DNC along with many other places.

    But for 2008, NYC should be the place.

    •  9/11, 9/11, 9/11 (0+ / 0-)

      having it in nyc gives the democrats a chance to symbolically take back ownership of the city from bush who came to downtown long after the buildings collapsed and acted like he had always loved the place. then he had christie screw everyone who was breathing air south of canal street. it is a democratic city, it is the best place to take in the wonders of the land of the free and the home of the brave, it gets more press and if we can't do the convention in some other highly symbolic place like new orleans then why not come home? why make all those delegates who are going to work hard to try to take white house back sit in some super 8 outside of rapid city or some other whistle stop channel surfing in the evening ? it won't gain you ten votes nationwide.

  •  Anyone know what action we can take? Elise? (lol) (0+ / 0-)

    Is there anyone we can email, etc?

  •  Phoenix (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tryptamine

    Phoenix is another attractive target as well. Personally, I'd love it if the Democrats held it in Colorado (Denver), Oklahoma City, Nashville, or St. Louis.

  •  For the record (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LarryInNYC, lirtydies

    The universe does revolve around NYC.

    We live in the greatest city in the history of world civilization. Perhaps you've heard of us. We are the global center of media, art, commerce, finance, advertising, fashion, and broadcasting. And we have a notable shortage of  stripmalls, and people who wear Dockers® brand clothing in public.  

    Might be time to kick the fact-checking up a notch.

    Thanks in advance.

    •  Ouch (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman, Naranjadia

      I live in NYC, was born here, and that made me cringe.  London, anyone?  San Francisco, LA, Hong Kong, Paris, MIlan, Rome (well, you did say "history"), etc.?

      Come on.  It's a great city, but there are other great cities.  That whole, "we're the best" schtick just makes us seem provincial and insecure (fortunately we're not referring to ourselves as "world class" yet, a sure sign of second-tier-ism).

      Go to an investment bank or law firm in midtown/downtown that does business casual, and you'll see all the Dockers (don't know how to make the little "r") you've ever wanted to see.

      •  Appreciate the input, but...those aren't close... (0+ / 0-)

        You have to look back to ancient Rome to find a city whose dominance in world affairs is even comparable. Except that was just white people whose "world" consisted entirely of places currently within a days drive of Frankfurt. It's not like Caeser had dominion over the Chinese, or the Aztecs, or even knew they existed. British Empire? At the height of its powers, with no peer for world influence besides perhaps the Spanish, it was handily defeated by a group of rebels headquartered in -- wait for it -- New York City.

        There are indeed other great cities. There can, however, only be one greatest city in the history of world civilization, and that's us.

        To your last point - I would hardly argue that you can find many examples of the Dockers™-wearing-with-external-cellphone-belt-clip genus in New York during daylight hours, but needless to say they return to their homes in Bergen, Nassau, and Westchester Counties by nighfall, leaving the city in the able hands of those of us with impeccable fashion sense and a rolodex full of tall and sexually attractive model types and/or internationally notable rock musicians.

        And so it ever was. Hey, the subject came up, just making sure everyone's in the loop.  

  •  For the record... (5+ / 0-)

    Previous locations of the Democratic Convention:

    1. Boston, Fleet Center
    1. Los Angeles, Staples Center
    1. Chicago, United Center
    1. New York City, Madison Square Garden
    1. Atlanta, The Omni
    1. San Francisco, Moscone Center
    1. New York, MSG
    1. New York, MSG
    1. Miami Beach, Convention Center
    1. Chicago(yikes!), International Ampitheatre
    1. Atlantic City, Convention Center

    Atlanta in 1988 was a ballsy choice but The Omni was not a great place to hold a convention...1964 was the last time that a non-traditional city was selected. The last time that a non-coastal city that isn't Chicago was selected?  1928. It was held in Houston. Al Smith lost.

    Minneapolis. Denver. Maybe Cleveland? Hell, reconsider Detroit...please, just don't put this convention in  NYC. Much as I may love that greatest of American cities, I don't think that it's the best choice for our party.

  •  Get real (0+ / 0-)

    In MSM terms this is the story..

    Minneapolis = innumerable Hubert Humphrey references.

    New Orleans (where I lived for 10 years) = Bleeding Heart Liberals. Is it wrong and immoral for that message to go out? Absolutely. But it will.

  •  Just DUMP the Convention (0+ / 0-)

    And spend the money on the campaign. you know effective marketing.

    What purpose does it serve.  

    We KNOW the nominee night one.

    The networs dont cover it and people dont watch it.  So there is reallly no benefit.  We could get the same people that would speak to go on one of the many TV shows and not spend a dime.  

    Why do some pointless event that costs $100 million to put on?

    If we MUST have it, move it to August so its the week before or after the repubs.

    •  It will be end of Aug. (0+ / 0-)

      The Dem convention is Aug 25 through Aug 28, 2008.  They cannot do it after the Republicans because the party in the WH always goes last.

      "No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown (-4.75, -7.13)

      by AUBoy2007 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:50:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You've got to fight, for your right, to.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Petronella

      have a political paaaarty. As the Beastie Boys would say.

      The purpose a convention serves is called democracy. Getting together the key representatives of a national organization for a week of organizing, strategizing, and just plain meeting each other in person is crucial.

      Without a network of committed people you don't have a political party. I wish the Democrats would have more big meetings to exchange ideas. I thought that's what democracy was all about.

  •  "Lessons Learned" from New York (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Petronella, mrsmarks

    I think the lessons learned from RNC/NYC were better and faster ways to curb and abuse the civil rights of citizens.

    Lesson: That plastic orange netting works well to round up protesters and bystanders alike
    http://www.commondreams.org/...

    Lesson: Dirty piers with toxic residue make great detention centers.
    http://www.house.gov/...

    Lesson: Two or more pedestrians or vehicles, in a “procession or race” that fail to comply with traffic rules should be charged with parading without a permit.
    http://www.transalt.org/...

    Lesson: The grass in Central Park is more valuable than the right of New York citizens to gather.
    http://www.usatoday.com/...

    Lesson: Protesting is a privilege that one can lose.
    http://www.unitedforpeace.org/...

  •  Conventions don't have excitement (0+ / 0-)

    because the nominee is determined well in advance. The reason they are heavily scripted is so there won't be any surprises, which could generate negative press coverage. Also, you want every speech to reinforce some message. Look at the 2004 RNC: every speech was based around Bush being tough and Kerry being a weak and indecisive flip flopper. But unless you want to have nominees picked in smoke filled rooms, there won't be any excitement at conventions.

    So Kos, how would you make conventions more newsworthy?

    If your name was George Walker instead of George Walker Bush, your candidacy would be a joke.

    by dole4pineapple on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 08:54:03 PM PDT

  •  If the Dems are smart (0+ / 0-)

    they'll still strongly consider Denver or even Minneapolis well before doing it again in NYC. New York is a great city, sure, but that's really not the point. The party would do well to realize that its future is out here in the hinterlands. Until the Dems make real inroads out here, they'll still be playing the same basic catch-up game they've been playing for the past 12 years.

    Yeah, I know they'll likely wimp out and end up in NYC, thereby fulfilling every expectation from skeptics that they are a party in the thrall of rich elite coastal snobs. Disappointing, to be sure, especially since a NYC convention would be all about rehashing the past instead of looking to the future. I'm just sayin' that it doesn't have to be that way.

    •  Have you ever been to New York? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lirtydies

      I can assure you that it's filled with decent and very hardworking people.  The "rich elite coastal snobs" thing is a myth.  As for the party's future, it's everywhere where there are voters.  When was the last time that Democrats had their convention in New York?  It wasn't 2004.  That was the Republican convention.    

      •  Like Union Members? (0+ / 0-)

        NYC probably has more union members within its five boroughs than thirty out of the fifty states in the union.  Hell, the city has more population than thirty out of fifty states in the union.  That density scares the bejeezus out of the folks in the hinterland.  

        "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

        by PrahaPartizan on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 04:03:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Have you ever lived out in the hinterlands? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Phoenix Woman

        I can assure you that it is also filled with decent and hardworking people. However, unlike NY these people have not traditionally or consistently voted for Democrats. Part of the reason is that they have misconceptions over what the Democratic party is all about, and that misconception is often fed into by a party that continues to seemingly ignore them...by focusing so much on the highly-populated coastal areas....which are financial centers and home to some very powerful people.

        When I talk about the party's future, I guess I mean a better future where they don't just ignore the middle parts of the country, that they branch out and go to places that are usually thought of as Republican strongholds, and in doing so demonstrate that their message goes well beyond what they previously imagined the party to represent. Something like this could help change their longer-term electoral fortunes.

        But you're right, the future doesn't have to be that way, and instead can continue to do the safe and expected thing that plays into all those aforementioned misconceptions. A NYC convention would certainly fit that bill. But hey, it's a great city with millions of Democratic voters and the conventioneers would have a wonderful time. That's all that matters, I guess.

  •  Oh, but the presentation was disasterous... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Buckeye Terry, hoody

    Bite Me.

    God this makes me sick.  The presentation?  What, they didn't have 3D graphics?  They didn't searve starbucks coffee?  What?  What about picking the place that would  best serve the democratic pary's prospects of WINNING!  

    I don't know that Denver is the best place, but PUH_LEASE, NYC wins because they have better PR People???!?!?!?!??!?!?!

    The whole world is run by marketing people and marketing people keep asking $5.10 hour interns what's cool.

    BIte Me

    "listen...do you smell something" -ghostbusters

    by David in Burbank on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:00:41 PM PDT

  •  This drives me to distraction... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eartha, NancyK, henna218

    Some Democrats worry about the symbolism of choosing New York City over Minnesota and question whether the party will acquiesce to the cultural elitism of its donors.

    I was just thinking about this problem tonight: the Democratic Party's obsession with symbolism, which lead Al Gore to select... Joe Lieberman as his running mate in 2000. Lieberman, a guy with no fight in him whatsoever, especially when it comes to doing battle with Neoconservatives.

    You'll recall that Gore chose Lieberman because he represented or symbolized moral values, he had dissed Clinton on the Senate floor because Clinton got a hummer in the Oval.

    See, when you make symbolic moves that isn't the same as creating a narrative, framing a decision, making a story. It is a silent, subtle message that may or may not get across to the people whose votes you want.

    We fall into this pattern over and over and over again! Who cares what anyone thinks whether we are Minnesota or New York or Austin or Madison! We make the best possible decision and then we create a narrative about why we made the decision.

    If it's Minnesota, we chose it because Minnesota best represents the true middle-American progressive values that Democrats champion.

    It it is New York, we chose New York because it symbolizes the President's lies and neglect: no memorial at the WTC, first responders with health problems. It also represents the unique strength and courage of America, it is a city that got hit, got back on it's feet and continued to be the world's trend setter, the most fantastic city on earth!

    Or something like that...

    Kos pointed it out yesterday, how Harold Ford's campaign lists a bunch of bills he sponsored to help veterans. That is symbolism! It symbolizes that Ford cares for veterans. But it doesn't have any umph! It isn't exciting. People want a story! They want entertainment! They want to be inspired! They want courageous fighters for good causes! We don't show them that by being subtle and nuanced and symbolic.

    So, Democrats, please cut the f'ing symbolism crap. Do what you wanna do and then vigorously promote a narrative as to why the decision makes us the best possible people to lead the best possible country in the best possible world!

    (-8.88/-7.64) Flirting with Feingold. Hugging up to Edwards. Still pining for Gore!

    by Joshua Lyman on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:04:19 PM PDT

  •  I'm not sure that it really matters where we hold (0+ / 0-)

    the convention. What does matter is the message coming out of the convention. We can't have a repeat of 2004, where we shelved our best anti-Bush attacks and focused only on the military record of John Kerry, instead of what he'd do as President. At the 2008 convention, we need to engage in harsh criticisms of the Bush record, tie the Republican nominee to Bush, and emphasize that the Democrats want to take the country in a new direction.

    Although, I suppose for symbolic value, we'd probably want it held in Minneapolis-St. Paul because otherwise, it'll look like the DNC is already rolling out the red carpet for Hillary to have a coronation in her backyard.

    If your name was George Walker instead of George Walker Bush, your candidacy would be a joke.

    by dole4pineapple on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:04:26 PM PDT

  •  MN: great pubs, good beer, decent coffee (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman, eartha

    Minneapolis has it all, including great facilities, and dining and drinking in abundance. I'd be hqappy to see it here in San Fran. but I'd visit the convention, probably as protestor, in MN, gladly.

    I'm a linguist, licensed to use words any way I want to!

    by MakeChessNotWar on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:08:33 PM PDT

  •  Convention Sites Dictated by Service Capacity (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dburbach, fmrgop

    If my memory serves correctly, the Democrats ususally have more people attending their national conventions than the Republicans.  This means that the Democrats need to look at cities which have the hotel space available to serve a very large contingent.  That is one of the reasons the Democrats wind up in places like New York, Boston, San Francisco or Los Angeles.  Other cities which have that kind of capacity are Miami, Chicago, Atlanta, and Houston, maybe Dallas too.  

    It's just a logistical fact of life and the only way to get around it would be to reduce the number of delegates attending the Democratic Party's national convention.  Who wants to volunteer to tell a potential delegate that they're not going because the number of delegates got reduced drastically to allow the convention to be held somewhere else?

    "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

    by PrahaPartizan on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:17:42 PM PDT

    •  Its the logistics... (0+ / 0-)

      A major national political convention must be in a city that can house 50,000-75,000 people.  They need to have a capacity to feed all those people, transport them, etc.  

      Logistically, these things are events from hell.  There are very, very few cities that can handle this.

  •  Minneapolis Pride (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eartha, davemck, Naranjadia, hoody

       Um Kos, Minneapolis is a city not a state ok?  And although we are purple in football and music, we are the blueist of the blue when it comes to politics.  
       Home to Paul wellstone, we just last night elected the first American (moderate I might add) Muslim, Keith Ellison to Congress.  What could piss off Rove and Bush more?  And I'll tell ya, a lot of the same people who delivered victory for a Jewish Senator who voted against BOTH Iraq wars also delivered victory for Minnesota's first African American Congress person AND America's first Muslim member of Congress.
       I was at the victory party at the Blue Nile restaurant and bar on what we call in Minneapolis the "other" West Bank and simply put, regarding the national convention in 2008?  We earned it, plain and simple.  New York is a world class city, Denver would certainly not be the end of the world and would probably help swing some western votes.
       But at the end of the day, I think I can speak for more than a few in our party no matter where they live when I say that the DFL is the bridge between the coasts.  It has often been said that Paul Wellstone was the conscience of the Senate.
       Keith won last night becasue of (among other reasons, like he earned it and he has integrity) grass roots activism and volunteers working double shifts and door knocking damn near every one of 144 precincts.
       Bring the convention here and we'll bring the fight to Rove and Bush.  

  •  I'm from Brooklyn (0+ / 0-)

    and I would like to see the convention in Denver.

    How do I become a delegate?

    Support Sean Patrick Maloney for New York State Attorney General

    by Blue387 on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 09:53:50 PM PDT

  •  Salt Lake City, Boise, Omaha, Cheyenne, Atlanta (0+ / 0-)

    It would tell Red Staters that the Democratic Party is paying attention to them and is not afraid to take on their ideology. The Democratic Party could afford to be somewhat more brazen.

    •  The convention is not open to the general public, (0+ / 0-)

      and isn't going to take on anybody's ideology.  For any city that hosts it, it will be just another convention, but with more pain in the ass security measures.  You're not going to convert anybody because there are a few thousand Democrats locked in a conference center a few miles from their office.

      Also, at least three of five cities you mentioned are totally ill-equipped to host a convention of this magnitude.

  •  Why not Houston? (0+ / 0-)

    It's close to both New Orleans and Crawford.  Would make for some great TV as the delegates tour the devastation around New Orleans or demonstrate outside Bush's ranch in Crawford.

  •  Shadow Convention (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dole4pineapple

    Progressive Dems should hold a shadow convention BEFORE the official Democratic convention in a city that represents middle-America such as K.C. or St. Louis, Denver or Omaha.  We should elect delegates all across the country and send them.  We should vote for our preferred nominees from among the nominees that will be travelling to the real convention.  This will have the effect of showing the Dems which candidate(s) have strength in organizing and in middle-American popular support.  

    And it will be a real convention with no pre-determined outcome.  Candidates (or their delegates) will speak to convince delegates to vote for them.  If we get the candidates themselves to come, we can get media coverage which will allow us to present a face of the Democratic party few have seen: a truly progressive face.

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/brewsta

    by BeerNotWar on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:18:16 PM PDT

  •  yawn. who cares? (0+ / 0-)

    does anybody even bother to watch these things anymore?
    not me. it's more boring than the Olympics.

  •  OKC or KC or St. Louis, MO (0+ / 0-)

    With Okla City, you have to connect in Dallas or Atlanta, so that's not good.  Not sure about Kansas City or St. Louis connections.

    Heartland ... OK is red country deluxe.  don't know why but it probably has to do with the prevalent delusion that Republicans are more concerned with Christianity.  "Ye shall know them by their fruit."  The fruit I see is green.

  •  honestly: (0+ / 0-)

    it should be right in the middle of the South.

    Tell them we are coming, let them organize a massive protest.

    Sticking to nyc is almost cowardly in my eyes...tell madison Ave to stick it where the light dont shine.

    Tell them we are coming for your red, red states.

    graduated from circular firing squad, Im happy to report that I was the only survivor.

    by NextGen on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:37:23 PM PDT

  •  READ MY LIPS (0+ / 0-)

    We already have one circus at Madison Square Garden every year.  The GOP convention in NYC in 2004 was a NIGHTMARE of epic proportions for people who live and work in Manhattan.  For the LOVE OF GOD please do not hold the Dem convention in New York!  Please, I'm begging the DNC.

    A pessimist sees a glass half empty. I see a paper cup with holes punched in it.

    by Paper Cup on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:44:37 PM PDT

  •  ST Louis or KC (0+ / 0-)

    Would be great choices, irrespective of their actual bids, or lacks thereof. This party needs to wake up (in many ways) and think creatively.

    But then again, this isn't 1890 and the conventions arent much more than commericals anymore, that non-diehards don't watch.

    Des Moines 2008!!!

  •  Oh no, not again (0+ / 0-)

    Don't people realize how totally disruptive a big convention like that is on the people and the city of NY?

    I'm not saying that the Dems would insist on 'Free Speech Zones', but enough is enough.
    New York has paid its dues.

    (Yes, I know all about the dollars spent. It's not enough for the misery of New Yorkers.)

    I think the Dems need to go to Laramie. Wyoming.

    The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. - Henry Wallace V.P. 1941-45

    by BoxerRebellion on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:55:14 PM PDT

  •  If the hotel wanted unions, there would be unions (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomB

    It doesn't take 2 years to get unions into the hotels. if hotel owners would agree to card check, it could get done in 30 days. With card check all you do is sign people up and when a majority are signed up, you have a union, then you negotiate a contract with the hotel. What usually takes so long is that the company fights the union organizers, brings in union-busting high priced specialty lawyers, delays the election, threatens workers, refuses to honor an election's results, on and on. People "quit" during a year-long process. We need tougher union laws that allow for card check.

  •  The Northeast is taken for granted. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, neroden, CKOneMD

     I don't care where the convention is held, but could the opposition to NYC be a little less negative?    

  •  NYC is the center of the UNIVERSE (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies

    kos did not get the memo..
    <sigh>

    Doc: I wish I had some other kind of news to give you.

    by CKOneMD on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 02:24:45 AM PDT

  •  Charlotte NC (0+ / 0-)

    would be a good choice if they have the facilities.  It would be good to slap a Democratic stamp on a red region with a growing business and finance center.

    Make Crablaw Maryland Weekly your source for Maryland legal and political news and commentary. (-1.88/-5.69)

    by tbrucegodfrey on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 03:10:42 AM PDT

    •  do they have plumbing ? (0+ / 0-)

      if i was a delegate and you told me i was going to charlotte nc i'd call in sick.

      •  Charlotte is putting up a light rail system (0+ / 0-)

        which suggests that the federal government thinks it's a real city.  I have not been there but my law firm represents banks and my supervising partner is constantly going to Charlotte to meet with the mega-banks located there.  Since it's a fairly new city, they might have installed mega-conference facilities in a way that an older city might find more difficult.

        I figure the mainstays of political conventions - gin and hookers - can be flown in from anywhere.

        Make Crablaw Maryland Weekly your source for Maryland legal and political news and commentary. (-1.88/-5.69)

        by tbrucegodfrey on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 07:10:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Greatest Show on Earth (0+ / 0-)

    The universe does revolve around NYC. Denver doesn't even have a union-staffed hotel, and its union members are still outraged that a DNC would use a non-union hotel? Coloradans must look at that and laugh at their unions and their Democrats.

    I want the DNC in Denver, and I'm from NYC. I don't want the traffic, the idiot out of towners who never spend as much money as they suck up in security and dropped productivity - especially not outside the corporate Disney core in Times Square. And the purely symbolic gesture should float somewhere in a Red State to distract those hicks from their Republican monoculture, and pick up some of their zombies for the Democrats.

    But don't pretend the universe doesn't revolve around NYC. The convention will happen somewhere else when we say it will. Of course our bid is the most impressive. Hell, if the people of NYC hadn't wanted the Olympics out of town and on TV where it belongs, we'd have it here, too, after Bloomberg nearly got it practically all by himself.

    Try to take a professional attitude, and work with those Big Money New York Democrats to get them to pay for your DNC somewhere else.  You know, Bloomberg used to be a Big Money Democrat before business turned elsewhere. Keep the tentshow revival somewhere more suitable, out in the backyard, and probably more New Yorkers will invest in using it to capture more power to serve our city. But joining the Republican "bash NYC" is just going to turn you into losers, just like them.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 03:23:28 AM PDT

    •  kos lost me on this one (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DocGonzo

      you got a place that votes like 90% for kerry, that has huge unions, public works, civil service agencies and is the center of much world trade and you are somehow bored or tired of it? sure have the convention in mobile alabama or some such wasteland but at least show some respect.

      •  I love New York (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Phoenix Woman, eartha, henna218

        It's one of my favorite cities. Politically speaking, though, there's just nothing to gain from having our convention in a city like New York or San Francisco. It doesn't expand our market any--we're already very strong on the northeast coast. Having the convention in Denver or the Twin Cities would be symbolically planting a flag in a new region, the Midwest.

        I dislike it when Democrats distance themselves from important Democratic cities like New York, Boston, San Francisco and LA. But I think in this particular case it is a decision based on strategy, not distancing. We already largely own the northeast, so having the convention in that region would be a defensive move. We want to be proactive and have it somewhere new.

        •  i see your point but (0+ / 0-)

          we don't own rhode island the way we need to so maybe providence is the place....of course i have no idea if they could accomodate such an event.anyhow i am ok with using the event to build a broader coalition of states. something in arizona maybe? but i like you point, let's at least credit where it is due. it seemed to me kos was taking a shot a the big money players in nyc because they have backed some folks he doesn't like ( loserman, etc. ). this is not helpful.

          •  Of course we own Rhode Island. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DocGonzo

            This is the 2008 presidential convention we're talking about, not the Chafee-Whitehouse senate race. I don't need a crystal ball to know Rhode Island is going to vote for a Democrat for president in 2008. ;-)

            The Northeast in general is a region we already do quite well in. That doesn't mean we should slack off there in local and Congressional elections--just the contrary, I think the northeast is the key to taking back the House this year. But as far as the presidential election is concerned, we have to expand our appeal. The southwest would be another good region to push into, but no bid was submitted from a southwestern city. The upper midwest (where Minneapolis-St. Paul is located) and the mountain west (where Denver is located) would both be great places to plant a flag. New York's already on our side, at that level.

        •  Get Out For Their Own Good (0+ / 0-)

          Neither singe, to whom you replied, nor I have said NY should host the convention. You are arguing with a straw man. Singe and I are arguing with Kos' dis on NY to justify holding the DNC somewhere else. Kos explicitly dissed (not "distanced") NY.

          As the city that has hosted both RNC and DNC in the past decade, NY doesn't need it. And we don't want it. And if it will keep obnoxious talk like Kos' somewhere that it won't get the talkers punched, we should hold that circus out in tentland.

          NY will still vote for Democrats because we know what's good for us. Hell, keeping the great unwashed Democrat masses out in the stick will probably help NYC mayors run as Democrats, without getting tarred with the same brush by voters here.

          "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

          by DocGonzo on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 07:58:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Push for Minnesota if Denver really did screw up. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman, eartha

    If it is really true that Denver's presentation was a disaster, It's time to put everything behind Minnesota.  A NYC convention totally plays into the Republicans hands: How many times can you hear "Northeast Liberal elitists!" We'd be better off without a convention.

    It's amazing that these same bigwigs and consultants that insist real Liberals destroy the party, and that we have to nominate southern conservative democrats think we should have an NYC convention. Dems  must show the country that they have a serious base in the midwest (or mountain West or Great Plains)

    That stuff about infrastructure problems in Minneapolis is bullshit.  Minneapolis has easily hosted a superbowl and other nig events.  New York conventions are a logistical nightmare.  It's so crowded and the safety concerns, yadda,yadda. The Republican Convention in NYC was a logistical/infrastructure disaster.

    So if Denver really did screw-up:  Go Minnesota!

  •  Minneapolis (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies

    Kos wrote:

    Minneapolis is a blue state threatening to go purple

    Um, Minneapolis is a state?

    Just wondering, and couldn't resist :-).

  •  This says it all for me... (0+ / 0-)

    The city also lacks a union hotel

    Niether the Democrats or the Yearly Kos should opt for any city without a union hotel. I don't believe in encouraging bad behavior. Choosing a site without unions is a slap in the face of the unions. Dems must fully support unions every chance they get. Like the word Liberal, the right has done an amazing job of making Americans (even many on the "left") think unions foster lazy, overpaid workers.
    Nope. No union, no convention. Very simple.
    And if you want to get off the coasts...how about Chicago?

    All Truth is non-partisan

    by MA Liberal on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 04:10:29 AM PDT

  •  I'm from NY (0+ / 0-)

    and I love everything that NY stands for, don't hold the convention in NY, be smart and not partisan and think of the big picture, its time the DEMS start making quality decisions.
    PEACE!

  •  Cleveland (0+ / 0-)

    Scene of the crime in 2004. Heartland. Blue-collar America. Rock and roll. The Flats. An awesome city.

    Like most of you, I hope we keep this thing off the coasts. Plenty of good options out there. Other sleepers for the future are Nashville and Memphis. Both are anything but the sleepy little towns they're made out to be.

    The Republican Party: Keeping America Fact-Free Since 2001

    by IndyScott on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 04:34:31 AM PDT

    •  Great minds think alike (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eartha

      Shit, Indy, we were on the same wavelength (see my post below.)

      I'm in Chicago, so it just might be a Midwest sensibility speaking but, what the hell, the Dems need to get stronger in the Midwest and drive south and west from there.

  •  Minneapolis gets my vote, but Cleveland Rocks (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eartha

    I'd go for Minneapolis over Denver. I've been to Minneapolis once, and it was a lot more eclectic than I was expecting. At least a lot more eclectic than Denver, which I've visited a few times.

    I guess I could see the political reasons for Denver, but I just don't think the West is a great place to get votes, if you concede Texas and probably Arizona. I mean, yeah, it's daunting to see that sea of red every election eve, but how many electoral votes are really there if you take Texas out of the equation?

    Too bad there are no border states in the running...Memphis or Nashville if Ford wins, St. Louis or Kansas City.

    Oh shit, what am I thinking? What are the battleground states? Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida. The Dems should pick a city in one of those states and be done with it.

    Probably Cleveland, if Ohio cleans house in the mid-terms. Cleveland is not only in a battleground state, but it's also a door to the industrial Midwest, which I think is the future of the Democratic party's push back into the Heartland, though Kos may disagree.

  •  Feh! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eartha

    I'm sorry to hear that Denver doesn't have a very good bid. It would be perfectly located.

    But everyone's welcome here in Minnesota! The Twin Cities are nicer than you probably think they are, and besides, it would make Paul Wellstone smile.

    I don't completely get the "commute" issue. We have big conferences here all the time with no problem. Granted, the ones I'm familiar with are much smaller than this would be... Were they planning on putting everybody up in the big hotels by the Mall of America? They would have to do a commute then, but there's lots of good hotellage in downtown Minneapolis that I'd think would work just as well...

  •  why not in new hampshire? (0+ / 0-)

    I'm sure Kos would agree that NH doesn't get the national attention it deserves..... Manchester is lovely in the summer (hyuk hyuk hyuk).

  •  Not only big money Democrats things NYC is . . . (0+ / 0-)

    the center of the universe.  This is a trueism shared by all New Yorkers.  

    Knowing that NYC is the center of the universe is instilled in the brains of newborns at conception.  Those people who move to NYC can only become NY'ers after passing the "New Yorker" test.  Getting the answer to the question "Is New York City the center of the universe" wrong creates an automatic failing grade.

    Snarkily yours,

    A transplanted New Yorker

  •  Denver would be great (0+ / 0-)

    As would Minn-St.Paul, I'm all for it.

    But just to set the record straight. The universe does revolve around NYC. It's not an answer to a "citizenship test," it's just a cultural, financial, and power reality.

    If another city could get the hotel space, the entertainment, the culture, the transportation, the neighborhoods, that NYC has, then it could start to be pissed about NYC thinking it's the big dog. Hell, it has The Big Dog.

  •  Minnesota State Fair (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman, eartha

    Sitting in the basement storeroom of an AV office in a Minneapolis Hotel, I'm intrigued by the comments about putting the convention in the Twin Cities. One person commented that shuttling people between the Convention, or Show site, (Excel Energy Center- a fantastic 4 year old venue by the way) to Party Central, ( here in downtown Minneapolis), might be a hassle. Another commented on how thousands are shuttled between the cities on busses during the state fair. This year 1,680,000 attended the fair over the course of 10 days and probably 1/4 of them took the shuttles. If the convention is held the 25th- 28th 2008, it will coincide with the fair, (we'll get more busses) and will also create a decent photo op for some of the pols to be seen at the fair by the entire country. In fact, why not hold an official event at the fair? It probably sounds corny to some of you on the coasts, but talk about strong symbols of community for those of us in or surrounded by rural areas, it can't be beat. I can't speak for the late Paul Wellstone but I can only imagine he would not have been against it. Party Down Twin Cities '08.

    •  Yes, Yes, YES! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eartha

      You guys from out of state have No Idea just how big the Fair is -- and not just to Minnesotans.  We get people from the Dakotas and northwestern Wisconsin attending the thing!

      How Big Is It?  Between 100,000 and 120,000 people a day attend the thing.  Yes, you read that right:  120,000 people per day.

      And while lots of Fair-goers attend on more than one day, you're still looking at over a million different people -- one-sixth of Minnesota's population -- that you can be reaching over the ten days of the Fair.  Imagine reaching a semi-captive audience of 120,000, just for one day.  Most pols would kill for that chance.  The Fair serves it to you on a silver platter.

      -- First off, it's a permanent city-within-a-city, complete with tree-lined streets, huge buildings and its own police and fire departments, situated on five hundred acres midway between the downtowns of Minneapolis and Saint Paul.  

      The buildings are often used during non-Fair times (which is to say: most of the year) by various conventions, book fairs, computer expos, etc.  The Back to the 50's street rod show takes place there, and that event's nearly as big as the Fair itself, as these pictures show.

      -- Second off, the Fair has been a magnet for politicians of both local and national import for well over a century.  The DFL has a huuuuuge installation right by the front gates, and the GOP's place is near the WCCO-AM building (WCCO having been the big local radio station for many decades, until recently). And you can't walk down a Fair street without running into a booth for a political candidiate of some sort.

      Then-VP Teddy Roosevelt's famous "Speak softly and carry a big stick" speech was given here, days before McKinley's shooting catapulted Roosevelt into the presidency.

      All in all, getting the Democratic bigwigs to show themselves at the Fair would work wonderfully well.

    •  100.000 pissed off people are not going to (0+ / 0-)

      appreciate symbolism.  As it stands, it is really, really hard to get a hotel room during the fair (and the costs triple, but I digress).  If you added the Democratic Convention, people would have to camp out at the city parks.   The Twin Cities don't have the capacity to hold a major, national event at the same time.

  •  sweet Jesus on the Mount (0+ / 0-)

    Democratic donors, irate at the Republican Party's 2004 fete in their city, have urged the party to choose New York.

    So Joe Lieberman carrying water for Bush doesn't make them irate--heavens no! he's a capital fellow--but Repubs having a party? That's plainly too much.

  •  Scripting... (0+ / 0-)

    So go somewhere where the local coverage will actually, you know, help. Colorado is a purple state moving our direction. Minneapolis is a blue state threatening to go purple. We get nothing out of having it in indigo-Blue New York.

    You really think that having thousands of the same coastal activists that you complain about forgetting that the middle of the country even exists descend upon some swing state in the middle of the country is going to help?

    It seems your complaints are rather inconsistent.

  •  What's with the bizarre New York bashing, Kos? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    trinite

    This isn't the first time you have shown a very ugly hostility to New York City.   Knock it off, Kos.  We need every Democrat we can find.  You can make your case for Minneapolis without insulting comments about "Big money New York Democrats" who "back people like Lieberman and Bloomberg" -- a phrase dangerously open to a misinterpretation I am sure you do not mean, which will get you into a lot more hot water than that comment about mercenaries in Iraq.

    •  New York bashing is common. (0+ / 0-)

      It often comes from those good people in the heartland.  I don't really understand it, but I can't help getting annoyed.  I live in the boondocks of Connecticut but am only about 80 miles from the big city which I love.  I don't really care where they hold the convention, but I get somewhat nasty when anyone bashes this magnificent city.  New York is a people place.  It's very competitive but has a heart.  I love New York!  Please be kind to New York.

    •  NY's already VERY solidly Dem... (0+ / 0-)

      ...we don't need to preach to the converted, we need to nail down the heartland.

  •  Don't knock NYC (0+ / 0-)

    There is a case for picking a place like Denver over New York, but why make it by insulting New York? Big money Democrats donate big money to the Democratic Party, in case you didn't know, and there are millions of poor and middle class Democrats here too plus all the media. This is a problem?

    Try harder and make a positive case, Kos.

  •  Two words. (0+ / 0-)
    National primary.  A one-day event where all primary states cast their ballots for President in which the party determines the ground rules.  States who fail to abide by the ground rules don't get to send any delegates.  No one state (cough)Iowa(cough) will be able to provide momentum (which is over-rated) to a particular candidate, nor will a group like Club for Growth be able to focus their energy on producing this momentum for the wrong candidate (cough)Kerry(cough).

    One of two things will happen.

    1.  One candidate will instantly win enough delegates to lock in the nomination.  That candidate has the wide (and genuine) support of his party nationwide, which is a really good thing.

    2.  You will have two or more front-runners, the remaining candidates will have to decide who to whom to throw their support, and the convention has regained its relevance, guaranteeing wall-to-wall TV coverage, which is also a really good thing.

    I bet Howard Dean agrees with me in his heart of hearts, but is afraid of the fallout from certain groups if he were to run this idea up a flagpole to see who salutes.

  •  If It's NYC (0+ / 0-)

    (and I was rooting for Denver too)

    There are various things they could do to demonstrate that it wasn't "elitist NYC".

    Point out the ways in which NYC is an example of good liberal policies making life better for everyone: public transportation, parks, social programs, etc.  Say, "We want to bring these benefits of NYC to the rest of the country!"  The train and subway service is an especially good sell -- everyone wants that now, but NYC is one of the few US cities which has it.

    Point out that the NYPD has more Arabic speakers and its counterterrorism program has a better record than the FBI.  Explain that with Democrats in power in Washington, the FBI will become as good as the NYPD.

    NYC is sometimes called the "capital of the world".  Make use of that.  Make every effort to welcome people from elsewhere.  For starters, all delegates should be flown in free (well, at the DNC's expense), except those who are close enough to come by train.  (This may already happen, I don't know.)

    -5.63, -8.10 | Libertarian Liberal

    by neroden on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 09:41:36 AM PDT

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