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I'm in Ann Arbor, and I'm about to go check out the downtown area, but there's a bunch of good stuff that has piled up and if I don't get to it now, I won't get to it until Sunday or Monday.

And this one is important:

The city of Denver, which as recently as early September stood a small chance of securing the Democratic National Convention in '08, is a contender once again.

If anything, city leaders can thank the Republicans. Set side-by-side, New York's bid is stronger. But the political argument for Denver is far more compelling, thanks to its geographical location, the blue hue of growing parts of the state, its Latino population, and its Mountain West political culture.

Party sources, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that Denver's third revision of its bid sufficiently addressed a number of technical concerns that originally caused some on the site selection committee to dismiss it entirely.

Some donors are pushing heavily for New York, which turned in superlative a bid and is heavily lobbying the DNC. But some of Howard Dean's closest advisers are warming to Denver.

Those donors hate Dean with a passion because he doesn't kiss their rings. They hate him because he's building a national party. They hate him because Dean doesn't see them as the center of the universe. These are the same jokers who funded Bloomberg. Who are raising money for Lieberman. And they are a corrosive force inside the party.

There is no political advantage for Democrats to hold the convention in New York. None. Sure, it's convenient for those Big Dollar Donors who wouldn't have to get in their private jets to fly to Denver, but this isn't about them. They think everything is about them, but it isn't. It's about building a national party, about expanding our reach into parts of the country that haven't seen the Democratic message but are receptive to it.

Colorado Democrats are about to build on their 2004 successes (which we write about in CTG) with even more dramatic victories this year -- at least the governor's race and one House seat, and potentially three additional House seats. By the end of this year, we should have Democratic governors in much of the Mountain West -- Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico. Republicans are down to Nevada (maybe) and their two lonely outposts in Idaho and Utah.

Here we have a banner opportunity to deliver the party message straight into the heart of this new rising political force, and the party establishment wants to have their convention in frakin' New York?

These same forces are vividly brought to life in Matt Bai's upcoming Sunday NY Times Magazine piece on Dean and his 50-state strategy.

Before this midterm election-year began, but not long after Dean became party head, Emanuel and Schumer decided that if Dean wasn't going to raise anywhere near as much money as his rivals at Republican headquarters, then he ought to at least give them whatever resources he could muster. They went to work on Dean, pleading with him to transfer as much as $10 million to the two committees to help them respond to the Republican TV barrage. Emanuel told anyone who would listen that back in 1994, when Republicans sensed a similarly historic mood swing in the electorate, the R.N.C. kicked in something like $20 million in cash to its Congressional committees. (This argument was impressive, but not exactly true; the R.N.C. spent roughly that much on federal and local races combined in 1994, and little, if any, of that money went directly to the committees themselves.) Dean categorically refused to ante up. Having opposed the very idea of targeting a small number of states and races, he wasn't about to divert money from his long-term strategy -- what he calls the ``unsexy'' work of rebuilding the party's infrastructure -- to pay for a bunch of TV ads in Ohio. He wanted to win the 2006 elections as much as anyone, Dean told them, and he intended to help where he could. But Democratic candidates and their campaign committees were doing just fine on fund-raising, and the party couldn't continue giving in to the temptation to spend everything it had on every election cycle -- no matter how big a checkbook the Republicans were waving around.

For Schumer, Emanuel and their allies, this rejection was irritating enough. When they heard the stories of how Dean was actually spending the party's cash, however, it was almost more than they could take. Dean was paying for four organizers in Mississippi, where there wasn't a single close House race, but he had sent only three new hires to Pennsylvania, which had a governor's race, a Senate campaign and four competitive House races. Emanuel said he was all for expanding the party's reach into rural states -- roughly half the House seats he was targeting were in states like Texas, Indiana and Kentucky, after all -- but he wanted the D.N.C. to focus on individual districts that Democrats could actually win, as opposed to just spreading money around aimlessly. The D.N.C. was spending its money not only in Alaska and Hawaii, but in the U.S. Virgin Islands as well. Democratic insiders began to rail against this wacky and expensive 50-state plan. ``He says it's a long-term strategy,'' Paul Begala, the Democratic strategist, said during an appearance on CNN in May. ``What he has spent it on, apparently, is just hiring a bunch of staff people to wander around Utah and Mississippi and pick their nose.''

The disagreement with Emanuel and Schumer frayed Dean's already fragile détente with Washington's Democratic elite. Since coming to Washington, Dean had worked hard to forge a level of trust with Congressional leaders, subjugating some of his more combative impulses. In particular, he had formed what he thought of as a genuine friendship with Harry Reid. Nonetheless, the party's elected leaders and their legions of consultants remained uneasy about Dean. They suspected, correctly, that he strongly sympathized with outside forces -- militant bloggers, disillusioned donors, -- that were fomenting rebellion at the grass roots. It didn't help that Dean's younger brother, Jim, a onetime salesman who had taken over the PAC Dean started, Democracy for America, was out there proselytizing for insurgent candidates like Paul Hackett, whom Schumer eventually muscled out of a Senate primary in Ohio, and Ned Lamont, who upended Joe Lieberman in Connecticut. While campaign laws prohibited the Dean brothers from coordinating their activities, Washington Democrats assumed that Jim Dean's job was to carry out the chairman's subversive wishes.

This is an ongoing battle between a handful on insiders who think DC and NY knows best, and that the party should focus on a handful of "battleground" districts in a handful of "battleground" states, and pretty much everyone else in the party. This is not a battle Rahm and Schumer and Pelosi are going to win.

In 4-10 years, future chairs of the DSCC and DCCC are going to praise Dean for his efforts on behalf of a national party. We have great bench talent in places like Oklahoma, Mississippi, Nebraska and pretty much every state traditionally abandoned by the party. When those Senate and House seats open up, and our candidates have a leg up because of the DNC's tireless ground organizing, then Dean will be vindicated.

Until then, it's up to us to get Howard's back against those clubby, elitist DC and NY establishment Dems who think the world revolves around them, that they have all the answers, and that rank and file Dems all over the country should STFU.


  • NY-26: Ha ha. The guy in charge of electing House Republicans may not survive the election himself. Tom Reynolds leads Democrat Jack Davis narrowly 45-43 according to SUSA. And given the sorry state of NY's GOP and the top-of-the-ticket firepower from Hillary and Elliot, this is a serious pickup opportunity. Here's a diary on the poll.
  • Dems kicking GOP ass in early voting in Iowa.

    More than 50,000 Democrats had requested ballots, according to the Iowa secretary of state's office as of Wednesday, compared with just more than 11,000 Republicans, continuing a trend by Democrats in Iowa of emphasizing early voting.

    A note of caution -- we won the early voting battle in 2004, only to lose the state at the ballot box to Bush.

  • TN-Sen: Man, we lucked out with Corker as our opponent. He's falling apart.
  • On the banner ad -- chances are good that it'll stay up through election day. I'm not fond of it, but the Blogads adstrip is full through the election and the banner will allow many cool groups to advertise who would otherwise be shut out. Groups like and Amnesty International, and more such groups in the weeks ahead. I won't let that ad strip be occupied with b.s. crappy advertisers.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:02 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  So, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IseFire, dbratl

    where can I get those banners for my crappy-ass little blog?

    •  I'm getting used to the banner... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      It is really not so bad.  I agree with keeping it through the election, at least.  And then you can see what the community feels like after having a chance to get used to seeing it.  As long as the money goes to a good cause, which it sounds like it is.

      My two cents worth.

  •  NYC (12+ / 0-)

    As I New York City resident I have two words: Pick Denver!

    Go [insert name of team playing against the Yankees]!!

    by MikeBaseball on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:04:46 PM PDT

  •  Preach it Markos! (9+ / 0-)

    While the national dems were standing in shock in November 2004, us Montana progressive democrats were celebrating ending 16 years of republican rule in the state, having taken over all but one state office.

    A Denver convention would be a huge shot in the arm for the resurgent democratic party in the Mountain West.

    The West is Best!

    •  As a denizen of a lonely outpost (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ed in Montana, IseFire

      Idaho has been a lonely outpost for Democrats for awhile, but there are glimmers of hope with the Grant for Congress (ID 01) race.  I think a mountain west convention would be a great signal that the party wants to expand its appeal beyond traditional blue states.  Now all that're needed are a candidate and a message that resonates with the voters.

  •  Keep the blogads . . . (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Danny Boy, Predator Saint, Voice

    . . . And put them where ever you want.  Good for you.  I am wholey supportive of you deriving income from this site and using it to grow ancillary activities.  Plus it gives you a chance to feature other groups.  

    Anyone who wants to complain about the banners should buy a membership and opt-out.

    Just another American against the war.

    by dbratl on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:08:43 PM PDT

  •  NY-26 and Denver (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Colorado Luis, wakemeup7nov06

    Reynolds always seemed vulnerable this cycle, given he wont by just a 12% margin(56-44_ against Davis in 04, when Davis was a newcomer. Davis is rich and is self-funding I think, and since it's his second race he's got name ID already. Depending on the 06 results, CO-MN could provide an interesting contrast. Dems surging in CO with a potential 3 seat pick-up, state house pick-up, plus 04's wins. Contrasted with a faltering GOP in MN, potentially losing 3 house seats, a state house, and an open Senate race.  

    Former VP Al Gore said he may run for president again. Insiders say he wants to avenge his 2000 victory -Dave Letterman

    by jj32 on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:09:41 PM PDT

    •  Your sig line would be my dream come true (0+ / 0-)

      That's it. I've had it with these @%#& Republicans in the @%#& House and the @%#& Senate.

      by wakemeup7nov06 on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:38:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The BEST part about NY-26 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      is that the Green candidate takes off 8%, and she is off the ballot now, after the poll was taken.

      Davis seems very smug and he seems to care more about national politics than his own district. This may be coming back to bite him. His recent article laughing about the effects of negative ads can't have helped.

      •  Davis being another name for Reynolds (0+ / 0-)

        right? ;)

        And keeping the NRCC chief busy with his own seat is very good for other races.

        Oh yeah, the SurveyUSA poll has a very odd sample.

        Here's the partisan breakdown

        Republicans (51%): 62/31 Reynolds
        Democrats (28%): 64/24 Davis
        Independents (19%): 43/31 Davis

        The Green got 8% with Democrats, and 20% with Independents.

        NY-25's registered voter split is 37/31 Republican, with 25% Blank.

        In other words. Reynolds is in deep deep trouble.

        You change the sample to 40R/33D/27I, you get a 4 point lead for Davis.

        And that's WITHOUT splitting the Green voters.

        "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

        by RBH on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 03:54:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  On further review (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        the NY-26 split is 41R/31D/20I

        So if you adjust the SUSA sample to 45R/34D/22I (yes, I know the rounding is screwy).. you get..

        Davis by 3!

        and that's with the Spoiler in the poll.

        "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

        by RBH on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 03:57:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I dont mind the blogads (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IseFire, Predator Saint

    as long as they are cool, like the Amnesty one running now.


  •  so, Kos, (0+ / 0-)

    Is this a subtle Kossack Action Alert (we should all be contacting the DNC and applauding Denver)?

    Works for me.


  •  What about NOLA? Why too late? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, plymouth, natchezms

    I diaried about this yesterday afternoon, and stand by my guns.  Why not NOLA for the convention?  They withdrew their bid, because they couldn't raise the guarantee money.  Were they required to raise 100 million USD in guarantee money, as reported?  If so, why?

    As an Iraqi-American academic born and raised in New Orleans, this voter is not pleased.

    by naltikriti on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:10:37 PM PDT

  •  The DNC Doesn't Want To Spend Money... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The DNC doesn't want to have to spend money. They're hoping the host city will "comp" a lot of the costs of holding the convention. I'm guessing that New York & its lobbyists are promising to cover more of the costs than Denver. That's probably the only to pick New York.

    I think Denver should be chosen, especially to highlight new strength in the mountain west, and make a play at Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada...

  •  BREAKING: Lieberman lead down to 2% points (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    upperleftedge, Valahan

    In spite of doom and gloom reports earlier today about a 10% point margin for Joementum, the latest Zogby Poll says otherwise.  

    Lamont has cut Lieberman's lead to within the Margin of Error.  Since Lieberman lay down on torture, perhaps karma is instanter than usual.

    "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

    by bobdevo on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:14:09 PM PDT

  •  Bullshit. (14+ / 0-)

    As one of those NY money liberals, this is Kos' biggest bullshit post since he went off half-cocked against "some guy named Garrison Kiellor".

    I have no objections whatsoever to having the convention in Denver -- it won't help us in Colorado, but probably will in other mountain states.  Taking the convention to ostensibly enemy territory does speak project strength.

    But this "NY Democrats must die" bullshit is just stupid.  People in New York have the right to lobby for New York to get the convention -- most people want to attract large public events to their cities (I realize some folks here feel differently).

    And New York still hasn't received the respect it deserves from the DNC after the total slap in the face of the DNC's 2002 decision to take the convention to Boston -- Boston, of all fucking places -- rather than bring it here to New York where it would actually have done some good.  That wasn't about projecting strength in the battle ground states -- that was a Kos-like desire not to appear favorably inclined towards "New York money liberals" (who could that refer to, I wonder).

    Well, I'm a fucking New York "money liberal" (it decends through the mother's line, if I take Kos' meaning), I'm a proud Dean supporter, and I even voted for Bloomberg (although I gave money to Ferrer).  If Denver gets the convention on merit (and I count "sending a geographic message" as a merit), fine.  

    But if the reason to keep the convention out of New York is that we don't want New York "money liberals" in the party, fuck that.  It's my party too.  I don't need any "blog elites" telling me who can and who can't be in the Democrat party and who can and who can't be proud of their own damn city.

    Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

    by LarryInNYC on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:14:13 PM PDT

    •  Larry, your're not (0+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      Hidden by:

      accusing anyone on this site of holding ill-will toward members of the tribe?  Comeon, just last week, someone on here was soliciting for members of the HugoChavez fanclub....

    •  As a New Yorker, I want Denver too (4+ / 0-)

      But I agree with most of what you're saying. Also, I can understand why you voted for Bloomberg (although he pays lip service to Bush, he's governed practically as a Dem), as local NYC Dems are FUBAR, with the exception of people like Weiner and Nadler. No more Mark Greens! And no more Fernando Ferrers!

      Take the NY-25: Dan Maffei for Congress

      by Progressive Moderate on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:29:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually. . . (0+ / 0-)

        Weiner's pretty far to the right -- certainly right of Bloomberg on many issues.  I don't want to shove Bloomberg in people's faces, but being lectured on how I vote in a local race by someone who a) clearly knows nothing about our local politics and b) voted for fucking Ronald Reagan is a bit rich.  And by "rich" I mean ironic -- not "Berkeley money liberal" rich.

        Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

        by LarryInNYC on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:33:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If I voted for ANY Republican (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          ...four generations of my family would rise from their graves and drag me down to Hell.

        •  Who did you vote for (0+ / 0-)

          state AG? Just curious.

          Spitzer for Governor

          by Blue387 on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 03:12:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I voted for Green. (0+ / 0-)

            I dislike both Green and Cuomo, but unlike Cuomo I think Green actually wants to be AG (rather than Governor-in-Waiting), and I think he do a pretty good job.  Plus, he would have had to move to Albany -- a double goody for us New Yorkers.

            Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

            by LarryInNYC on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 08:10:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  larry, (0+ / 0-)

          i've never voted for a Republican....
          i've read their party's platform

          well written re: the whole dumping on NYC Dems and NE liberals. a disgustingly huge % of dKos commenters, and perhaps kos himself with this particular post, are not making a CRITICAL distinction between NE liberals and Big Money types in the NE who are in positions to influence the direction of the party more directly. The rank and file like myself mostly just get used by Dems. We literature pushers, we're button peddlers, we're...streetwalkers!

          and then dKos readers rag on US as the problem.

          Okay, maybe these "problem" people will just not get on the bus to Pennsylvannia in 2008 and stay at home. ;)

          and the provincialism of the NYC-bashing is particularly laughable when one realizes that most of these NE liberals are NOT ORIGINALLY FROM NEW YORK! (It's as much about CLASS/STATUS as geography.)

    •  Amen (5+ / 0-)

      I am completely behind the idea of moving into a different geographical area in order to symbolize...something.  I understand that a convention in CO would bring a lot of media attention out there (although - have they solved the union issue in Denver yet?).  And most important, I see that this is an issue of getting elected, not holding hands and making friends.  But really, do we need all the NYC-bashing?  

      I am extremely uncomfortable when people start talking about the rich NY latte-sipping liberal elites.  For one, I like lattes.  But second, even if it's not what we mean when we say it, we're allowing the scary right-wing anti-semitic code words to become a part of our discourse, because that is what they mean.

      Furthermore, I don't see how it helps us to play along with the "fuck the intellectuals and the coasts" mentality - I think it's really sad that we buy into the hype that the "real America" only exists inland.  Did you know that 1 out of every 15 Americans lives in the NY Metropolitan area?  (US pop. approx. 295 million, NY metro approx. 19 million.)  We are the real America.

    •   I second that B.S. (7+ / 0-)

      Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi aren't New Yorkers.  Frankly, I don't think New York has much power in the Dem. Party.  I'm from Connecticut and I hate the false stereotypical image of the New York liberal elite because it doesn't exist.  Most New Yorkers are far from rich or elite, and New York is hated, even by Kos, something that really surprises me.  There is good and bad in New York, just as there is everywhere else, but most of the problems we have in the U.S. are from red states and not created in New York.  Do you need examples?  New York is the center of diversity, and for that alone, it's hated.  I had a southerner tell me that "In New York, all those ethnics are rubbing elbows." And a friend of mine was in Indiana and was told that New Yorkers are "foreigners."  FDR and his wonderful spouse were wealthy New Yorkers, but they had more compassion for the poor than all the social climbers who after making it to the top seemed to forget what the bottom was like.  Please stop trashing New York.  You can cheer for someplace else, but leave New York out of it.  I'm really losing patience with this unfair depiction of a great city.    

      •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

        The Massachusetts Liberal elite runs the party, not the New York Liberal elite.

        Ok. Just kidding.

        "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

        by RBH on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 03:04:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  thank you thank you thank you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        this Iowa born, bred, educated New Yorker thinks you are 100% accurate and applauds your commonfuckingsense. For the first time EVER since first logging onto dKos I am truly ANGRY tonight at Kos himself and at a front page post. I've disagreed with many frontpage posts before, but this NYC bashing is
        FUCKING ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        I call mega-bullshit!  The Rank and File NE Liberal is a very, very valuable thing that was standing tall and Democratic when most of the rest of the nation was tripping over itself to vote for some manner of Republican Revolution. I mean, JEEZ, the last time I checked Bill Clinton's moderate politics were NOT shaped in fucking New York State or New England. Last I checked Harry Reid was from Neveda.

        MY CONGRESSMAN IS JERROLD NADLER, AND HE STANDS FIRMS AS A COMMITTED LIBERAL. He votes the way a progressive would want him to damn near 100% of the time. Somehow his sort of values are the problem? No way.

        Good comment, trinite.

  •  Who is on the site committee? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jules Beaujolais, naltikriti, Valahan

    Can we lobby the site committee with our preference?  Who are those people?

    LA is for Lower Alabama. Also known as the Florida Panhandle for any Yankees not in the know.

    by Thom K in LA on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:14:20 PM PDT

  •  Howard Dean ISN'T the center of the universe. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    loudGizmo, jj32, plymouth, Mr X

    Why are you complaining that he should be treated as such?

    He's the DNC chair...a position that in reality is lower than any Democratic candidate for federal office.  The Chair does not "run" the party...he cheerleads and raises funds for it.  Period.

    Sheesh.  Give New Yorkers a break for lobbying hard to have the convention in their city.  It all could not matter less anyway.  Did the GOP win New York (or make any kind of headway) in 2004?  Ask Jeanine Pirro how strong the party in NY is.

  •  I think what the DLC (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wakemeup7nov06, Valahan

    does not yet understand is that the net is bringing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of like-minded people together to discuss and plan and put into effect the plans they have made.  I know for my own part, I don't have many people I can discuss this stuff with, but when I come here and other blogs and find that all these people think and feel the way I do, it empowers me and it empowers them.  The Netroots can only grow and become more and more effective as the years and election cycles go by.  John Kerry, Rep. Slaughter and the other pols who post here and other blogs are way ahead of the mainstream.  They get it!

    It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness - Eleanor Roosevelt

    by oibme on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:15:16 PM PDT

  •  Howard Dean is The Man! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    richter, louavul

    You gotta love him!

    Kos, do I detect an anti - New York attitude? I agree it's not the best place for the Dem convention right now, but your tone really implies something more ... 'cause if you're lookin' for it, we got whatcha lookin' for... right here!

    This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

    by Mr X on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:15:43 PM PDT

  •  Jack Davis info (0+ / 0-)
    • Born in 1933
    • Owner of I Squared R Element Company
    • Republican until 2003
    • Left the party after attending a fundraiser and being told that he couldn't ask Cheney about free trade
    • Fierce free trade opponent

    Oh yeah, a webpage too.

    Jack Davis!

    His platform is also.. interesting..

    I promise to support, defend and serve The People of the 26th District and the country.

    Getting re-elected will not be my priority, doing what is best for America will be.

    I will fight to save jobs, farms, and industries.

    I will fight to cancel all free trade agreements and promote balanced trade.

    I am for a strong national defense and I support the troops in Iraq. We should start bringing the troops home, but we should not set a date for complete withdrawal.

    I will not raise income taxes.

    I will spend your tax dollars as if they were my own.

    I will balance the federal budget by putting Americans back to work and cutting pork.

    No amnesty for illegal aliens and seal the borders.

    I will take the lead in reducing the cost of health care and prescription medicines.

    I will work to reduce the high costs of energy.

    I support elimination of the Death Tax.


    Congressman Jack Davis would definately be an interesting force in DC. Or a pain in somebody's ass.

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:18:57 PM PDT

  •  Appalachia (0+ / 0-)

    Control of the Senate will be decided deep in the heart of Appalachia.

    "If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide." Abe Lincoln

    by faithfull on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:20:32 PM PDT

  •  Careful, Kos (0+ / 0-)

    I think what you just said might be taken as an insult by your Blogads adstrip advertisers.

    They'd be thin skinned to do so, but they might.

  •  Knock off the ugly New York bashing, Kos. (9+ / 0-)

    As much as I love my city, I share your belief that there is no political advantage in having the Democratic convention in New York.  But surely it is possible to make that point without engaging in this bizarre New York bashing.  I've been on DKos for many years, and from the beginning I have noticed a very nasty antagonism towards this city on your part that is only getting worse.   Knock it off.  I would especially avoid a phrase like "NY money liberals."  Do you truly not understand what it sounds like you are saying when you use language like that?  Let's put it this way -- when right-wingers speak this way, it's quite obvious what they mean.  If you don't want to be tarred with the same brush, don't use the same words.

    By the way, Howard Dean is very popular among rank-and-file New York Democrats.

    •  More to Kos Than Meets the Eye (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Kos has a great blog, and is doing excellent work reforming the Party from outside. But he often reveals a powermonger within, especially when he's flying high like on the current Democrat momentum going into these elections.

      Fact is, Kos left his native El Salvador after Reagan/Bush Republicans made it their own private Iraq War. He joined the US Army, the Republicans, and voted for Reagan. Now he's a Democrat, while there's a definite power vacuum he can fill.

      Stuff like this NY bashing is so consistent with the way that rightwing "neocons" took over the Republican Party. It's not so bad with Kos and the Democratic Party, because Democrats aren't sticking to a post-Watergate fascist party, and Kos isn't that bad. But let's not forget that he's one person, with his own reasons for playing this political game.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 04:15:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it might be simpler than that. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IseFire, DocGonzo

        Yes, talking about "New York money liberals" is at best Republican boilerplate and at worst something far more disturbing.  But perhaps this is no more than 1)  the antipathy of a devoted Chicagoan toward New York  or 2) another example of Kos' occasional tin ear for rhetoric.  That's an odd affliction for someone so involved in shaping the message and image of the Democrats, but one which Kos has demonstrated before -- most famously in his curt dismissal of the US contractors whose burned bodies were hung from that bridge in Fallujah.  His basic point was valid (as is his suggestion that the next Democratic convention not be in New York), but with everyone in America so horrified by the photos, Kos came off as incredibly callous.

        I believe he later expressed regret over his choice of words.  Similar regret would be appropriate in this case.  If Kos engages in NY bashing again, I will put up a diary about it where we can all vent.

        •  Yes. And one thing more, Kos.... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          IseFire, richter, raindrew, DocGonzo

          I could do with any talk about Democrats 'hating' other Democrats.  Unless you know these people personally, you have no idea who hates who and who doesn't.  

          And let's remember, kiddo...hate isn't a family value and it sure as Hell isn't a Democratic one.  As an Irishwoman, I slip into that mindset myself occasionally, but never at my 'family' of Democrats who are right more than they're wrong...otherwise, they wouldn't be Democrats.  Right or wrong, without all of them we are lost.

          Words have meaning.  And power.  Use them carefully.

          Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.

          by oldpro on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 07:11:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Appropriately Complex (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I agree with everything except a reflexive Chicago attack on NY. I've had Chicagoan friends, and had a ball when I visited Chi-town. The mutual respect between the two cities as the only "real cities" in America has been pretty consistent. It's not like he's from Boston or LA, or Des Moines (or Trenton, or ...).

          It's easy to hate NYC, because so many people do. Because it's easy to be afraid of something scary. And New Yorkers (myself included) don't make it easy to love us, except in spite of ourselves. Especially when, as in this case, we can often buy something people don't want us to have, like a DNC.

          But the important distinction is that it's not "NY" or even "NY Money Liberals" that's threatening Kos' plans. It's some New Yorkers with money. Which puts them more in the "multinational businesspeople" category than "New Yorker". Attacking them more precisely won't get a baclkash from most New Yorkers, because we hate the Democrat funders who keep their fellow billionaire "Democrat" Bloomberg in power here. Partly by keeping the Democratic machine so bloated with losers. So not only is Kos losing NY'ers as allies, he's failing to help us work against our actual mutual enemies.

          Boston ;).

          "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

          by DocGonzo on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 08:38:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  close comments off now ;) (0+ / 0-)

            I'm quoting what you wrote because it's 100% on-target and should be the LAST WORD in the discussions surrounding this post of kos' that could have been great.....

            "But the important distinction is that it's not "NY" or even "NY Money Liberals" that's threatening Kos' plans. It's some New Yorkers with money. Which puts them more in the "multinational businesspeople" category than "New Yorker". Attacking them more precisely won't get a baclkash from most New Yorkers, because we hate the Democrat funders who keep their fellow billionaire "Democrat" Bloomberg in power here. Partly by keeping the Democratic machine so bloated with losers. So not only is Kos losing NY'ers as allies, he's failing to help us work against our actual mutual enemies."

            •  Actually, what SHOULD be the last word on this... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              ...would be an more comprehensive explanation from Kos of what he was trying to say that would remove from his words their nastiest implications -- and an apology for not doing so the first time.  His silence in the face of so many upset Kossacks (not all of them New Yorkers) is disappointing... and a little disturbing.  With all the great things he has done in the struggle for democracy in America, I really want to give Kos the benefit of the doubt regarding what he meant by "New York Money Liberals" -- and perhaps more important, what he DIDN'T mean -- but he isn't giving me much to work with here.

          •  Just to clarify, Doc. (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not suggesting that to be a Chicagoan is ipso facto to be anti-New York.  Some people in all cities take inter-city rivalries way too seriously, and I was speculating that Kos' obvious and long standing dislike of New York was rooted in that.

            Yeah, Chicago is great -- the music scene alone is spectacular.  I went there first as a performer and the audiences were among the very best I ever played to.

            •  My Kinda Town (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              When people talk or sing about "party like it's 1999" I always think about the Blues Traveler show I saw 12/31/98 - 1/1/99 at Chicago's Aragorn Ballroom. It turned out to be BT's last show ever (despite their post-mortem post-lipo reincarnation). And their rendition of the Prince song to kick it all off was the most glorious warning about the past 6 years. Even more than at the Prince show/afterparty in Vegas ending his 2002 world tour.

              BT rocked the glowing auditorium, sending us blasting through the night in a city big and deep enough to match all our action past dawn. After we crashed at our lakeside hotel, the crack of Noon saw us breakfasting in a rooftop greenhouse hot tub. As the first hubcap-sized snowflakes covered the glass, we decided to split town posthaste, rushing to the airport 7 hours ahead of schedule. And caught the last plane to NYC to leave for the next 7 days, battling prescient NY'ers and Chicagoans in a glorious final act covering us in victory and champagne.

              Chicago proved that it's a great city for New Yorkers. It appreciates our extremes, and lets us win when we demand it. I'm starting to think we should throw the DNC there in 2008, bolting the Midwest to the Northeast and featuring the West in a grand Union strategy - the entire point of Chicago in the first place.

              "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

              by DocGonzo on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 06:42:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Okay, I vote for Denver (4+ / 0-)

    and not just because I live in Colorado but because it takes the Dem Party away from the east coast and into the heart of a relatively new and very active Democratic region. This area of the west has been in the grip of Republicans for as long as I have lived in Colorado (14 years).

    That is obviously changing in a huge way.

    Colorado will turn two Congressional seats blue this year (CD4 and CD7), we will elect a Dem governor, we currently have a Dem majority ruled state legislation and the netroots here is on fire.

    Our GOTV effort in 2004 turned out the highest voter count in the nation.

    We have alot to offer to the national party on how it's done when you focus on every race in a 50 state strategy, starting from dog catcher on up. The DCCC and the DSCC could learn alot by making a trip out west.

    I'm cool if New York gets picked. I have nothing against them at all and think LarryinNYC makes some damn fine points.

    I think it's Emanuel and Schumer that need a wake up call and a serious kick in the ass from the netroots on how our party is changing and how we are doing it.

    I know that those that live in the West often feel like the red-headed stepchild of this party and feel the party takes its lead from the east coast and forgets there are three other regions in this country that could use equal attention.

    If not Denver, then hell, find a great city in the south or southeast and have it there. I can think of about 10 places off the top of my head that would throw a damn fine party.

    •  Denver would be great, (0+ / 0-)

      Frankly, one of the things that always puts New York on the short list is that it takes a very large city to host an event of this size.  Denver could do it.  Ironically, a lot of the states where the Democrats are picking up strength don't have a city that can handle the convention.  Wyoming or Montana would be great choices -- but do they get gatherings of this size in Helena or Larmamie (that's not a rhetorical question, by the way, I'd really like someone to tell me).

      •  No they don't (0+ / 0-)

        The Dem concvention must require at least 25,000 hotel rooms.  Actually I'm pulling that figure out of the air.  I expect 50,000 is closer to the right number, perhaps more.  Helena just wouldn't qualify.

        Repubs can get by with maybe 5,000 to 10,000 fewer--smaller convention.

        This is the really large conventions are only hosted in a few cities, especially Las Vegas.  The Dem Convention isn't one of the LARGEST conventions by any means, however.  Beyond that, you have to talk to a meetings planner.  It's a very intricate business that takes years of planning.

        •  It's 20-25,000 hotel rooms for the Dems (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          and about 15-20,000 for the Republicans

          •  NOLA will be hosting 25-30,000 conventioneers (0+ / 0-)

            in November.  We've got the hotel rooms.

            Just sayin.

            As an Iraqi-American academic born and raised in New Orleans, this voter is not pleased.

            by naltikriti on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 05:51:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Does that include hangers on? (0+ / 0-)

              Press, various organizations offering "hospitality" suites, etc.

              I thought that there were about 25,000 delegates and alternates.  Is this correct?  Just curious; as I said I grabbed the figure out of the air to explain why Helena, MT (and I suspect Salt Lake City, which is a real city and a very pleasant place for a convention in some respects) need to be ruled out.  But I haven't been in either place since 1978.  Denver is bigger, more cosmopolitan, and, I guess, has added a lot of hotel rooms over the last quarter century.

              NOLA?  Yeah, I bet that a lot of first class hotel rooms were on high ground.  Obvious problem; looks like we would be milking the suffering of others for political gain.  Might not be fair, but a no go for 2008, I fear.  Another city for a fun convention: San Antonio.  Maybe a little hot for August, though.  Any Texas responses?

              •  The argument about milking suffering may be (0+ / 0-)

                a fair one, but the logistics are ready.  As for the milking the suffering argument, it seems to have not hurt the GOP in NYC in 2004.  If played right, it should help, not hurt.

                Yeah, it's hot, but there is air-conditioning in those hotels...

                As for hangers on, etc., there should be enough capacity for all, especially given two more years.

                As an Iraqi-American academic born and raised in New Orleans, this voter is not pleased.

                by naltikriti on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 08:33:49 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  denver can manage (0+ / 0-)

        i'm in the special events industry in nyc.
        as a destination location for major events like a political convention, nyc ain't all it's cracked up to be, and having been to major events in denver (including as a teen from Iowa going there for major evangelical youth rallies), i'm confident denver can cope. i might be wrong, but i offer my subjective opinion nonetheless. . .

    •  Kick some real red butt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      and come to Indianapolis!

      Speech in this country is free, you hack!

      -5.88, -6.82

      by Debby on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 05:38:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yup (0+ / 0-)

        in principle, i think you're right.... there should be a move deep into Red territory, but only is there's some local political apparatus (sp?) that can be tapped into, even if it's surrounded by a sea of Red (This is was the GOP did in NYC---it's a major Blue city, but all the CORPORATE-WONED media there, Bloomberg as mayor, and Pataki as Gov, there was nonetheless a GOP apparatus for them to plug into.)

        The metaphor that comes to mind is "establishing a beach head."

        And I think that that's all the more reason why it MUST be Denver as the choice of venue. Dems are strong in NY and NYC already. But Colorado is a promising battleground.


        •  I think Denver is a lovely choice. (0+ / 0-)

          I know the DFA there was/is very strong and there's a lot of people-powered politics. And I think it can only help for Dems to be visible out west. But, see, we're building this new convention center and we've got all these new hotel rooms. But little local apparatus, unless you're Evan Bayh. Ooh, ick! Don't give him the satisfaction! Denver all the way!

          Speech in this country is free, you hack!

          -5.88, -6.82

          by Debby on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 10:32:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Banner ads (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The Amnesty ad actually looks really good up there. I mean, it fits very nicely with the site's look.

    The others are distracting, but I don't mind 'em.

    I don't think it'd be the end of the world to have the convention in New York, but New Yorkers don't even seem to like having conventions there much, so I don't think it would even win us any votes in New York. I'm for Denver if the union thing can be resolved (and it sounds like Denver labor thinks it can.)

  •  Since that banner ad went up... (0+ / 0-)

    Since that banner ad went up, I haven't been able to load sidebar with the blogads and the rec. diaries.  Any idea what's wrong?  I'm using FireFox

  •  Davis' race is all about trade (0+ / 0-)

    That poll on Davis in NY-26 is great.  He's successfully making the election a referendum on trade, and if the election is a referendum on trade then Davis wins.

    Plus, thanks to New York's fusion voting, he'll get a boost from voters who vote for him on the Working Families Party ballot line that doesn't show up in the polls (because the polls don't ask).

    •  Davis is also on the Independence Party line (0+ / 0-)

      Which could be moderately useful. Even if I'm sure that Democrats outnumber Republicans on the IPNY line.

      And Davis is the most prominent self-funder on the IPNY ticket too. Which he pulled off since another person didn't run this year.

      "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

      by RBH on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:28:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Enjoy Ann Arbor...& eat! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    my old stomping grounds (that has been seriously gentrified...).  If you're up for a great burger, go to the Del-Rio on W. Washington, if it's still open...  And nothing beats Zingerman's for great sandwiches.  Angelo's (on Catherine St. by the UofM hospital) is the best place for breakfast... Either that or the Fleetwood Diner (on Ashley)...

    All my other favorite haunts have closed down...sigh...

    OK, I'm hungry now.

    "Overcome anger by love, evil by good, the greedy by generosity, and the liar by truth." - Buddha

    by madame defarge on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:30:28 PM PDT

  •  If we hold the convention in NY... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...we would just look like we were following the GOP around like little puppy dogs. Since they just held a con there.

    conscientious objector in the battle of the sexes.

    by plymouth on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:34:26 PM PDT

  •  A suggestion for the top ad (0+ / 0-)

    Surround it in Orange.

    Or redo the top part of the dKos site to account for the banner.

    How either could be done.

    Hell if I know.

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:37:19 PM PDT

  •  As a Denverite I have (0+ / 0-)

    mixed feelings about the convention being here.

    Yeah, it would be really cool.

    On the other hand, I think of the traffic snarls trying to get in and out of downtown where I work.  Fucking mess every Labor Day Weekend.  Fucking mess when Cheney was here for a couple of days.  Fucking mess when the Pope was here back in '93.

    And the City budget is still pretty tight.  I'd hate to have City services cut (or not restored -- we're still "recovering" from the recession) so as to comp the well-off in order to draw the convention here.  First get the courts fully staffed again.  Then we can pay for Ted and Hillary's drinks.

    Leave the cat alone, for what has the cat done, that you should so afflict it with tape? - Ian Frazier, Lamentations of the Father

    by Frankenoid on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:38:03 PM PDT

  •  Cool news about Iowa's early voting! (0+ / 0-)
  •  Stop attacking NYC (8+ / 0-)

    Honestly, I am getting a little sick of your anti-NY attitude.  New York, along with most of the rest of the northeast is the most consistently democratic region in the country.  You attack thesepeople, but all they have done is support democratic candidates and the democratic party with millions of dollars.  They deserve a "thank you" not your scorn.

    •  1 other thing (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      IseFire, loudGizmo, chiniqua

      If I were making the selection I would not pick NYC.  My reasoning is very simple.  Civil rights went out the window when the RNC came to town.  it was a very fitting atmosphere for the RNC.  I would hate to see the same thing happen when the DNC came to town and I strongly believe it would.

  •  Don't Fuck With NY (5+ / 0-)

    Look, you should crash the gates of the moneybags and the Democratic machines they run. You should force Schumer, Hillary and Emanuel to do what Dean, the chair of the Party says to rebuild the party while winning elections - neither of which these moneyed losers with gold-plated jobs have done in a decade.

    And you should do whatever you can to keep another goddamn political convention out of NYC - they suck, they lose money, they bring assholes to town (like Robert Novak, with whom I literally had to laugh off a literal fistfight near the Port Authority after calling him "traitor" to his face kicking off the RNC here in 2004) who clog the streets and don't spend money. New Yorkers, Democrat, Republican and whatever, don't want another one of these elephant or donkey parade circuses in town again.

    But you're making a big mistake framing it as "the people vs the NY Money Liberals". That's just the kind of NY-bashing that we get too much of from Republicans and other hicks who can't stand us for so many wrong reasons. You'll alienate many NY'ers, like the 75% of us who voted against Bush twice, while he uses our name and our dead to justify his evil. Like the 25-30% of people subscribing to this site alone, who are on your team. Like the many of us donating money to DKos and its chosen candidates, to say nothing of the money we spend on other Democrats and all kinds of other stuff that keeps you in business.

    And beyond the political sense, don't fuck with NY because we'll kick your ass.

    Don't make enemies with the city that is your most natural ally, even in getting this stupid DNC out of our hair and into some Western venue we all prefer. It will haunt you, and soon.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 02:56:24 PM PDT

    •  Doc... (0+ / 0-)

      you sound like my kind of Dem! great job with Novack!

      kos is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off fucking base with this NY and NYC bashing.

      •  Night of Novakula (0+ / 0-)

        I sort of feel about Novak the way Clinton seems to feel about Osama. I regret that I didn't let an old man take a swing at me (like he recently had at someone in a Maine campaign stop who called him traitor). Then I could have called my buddy producing at CBS News a few blocks away, and 911, in that order. Novak might have squealed some more a lot earlier if he were locked in the Tombs overnight with "the people".

        But I will always have the memory of the old coot steamrolling down 8th Ave, getting caught at the red light and glaring at me redfaced and impotent as I laughed at him, two girls in my arms, while NY'ers and tourists jaywalked right past him, mildly amused at the superficially obvious scene.

        Maybe I'll visit Minneapolis for the 2008 convention, and we'll all get a lot more closure, way overdue.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 08:44:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Banner Ads (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Hey, here's one vote for the banner ads.  I like the issues i've seen popping up to date.  Maybe charge a 25$ yearly subscription fee for those want banner free adds.

  •  Do you REALLY know this, Kos, or is it a guess (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "Those donors hate Dean with a passion because he doesn't kiss their rings. They hate him because he's building a national party. They hate him because Dean doesn't see them as the center of the universe. These are the same jokers who funded Bloomberg. Who are raising money for Lieberman. And they are a corrosive force inside the party."

    The donors that are pushing a NYC convention.

    I live in New York, and an awful lot of us in the Party are rather to the left of this group.

    I think you are off base about New York and a national base.

    Where you have a point, which you don't make, is that Bloomberg is a Republican.  I would oppose a Dem convention in a city/state with Rep officials.  Also, why push Bloomberg up?

    But unless you know a lot more than I do (and you probably do) I think you're sounding a tad paranoid.

    If the Dems win the Colo Governor race, and with a popular Dem mayor, as long as Denver has the hotel rooms, why not.  Years ago I used to think Denver a less than gorgeous city, but there's lots of beauty around it.

    And it's not too warm/hot!

  •  How about a compromise? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    We hold the 2008 convention in Denver to nominate [insert name here] and hold the 2012 convention in New York to renominate President [insert name here]. Is this a good compromise?

    Spitzer for Governor

    by Blue387 on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 03:15:22 PM PDT

  •  Why the bashing? (5+ / 0-)

    I agree, there are many reasons the conference should be held in Denver.

    But, Kos, can we quit the NY-bashing?  It's really insulting, especially when it plays to ugly stereotypes.

    •  amen (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      IseFire, richter

      last time i checked kerry took manhattan by like 80 to 20 % or better. that was the result of the votes of lots of african americans, latinos, gays, union members, other ethnics, etc. what is this new york bashing about kos? and from berkley?? get fuckin serious!

  •  Howard Dean (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Just two men stood up when the Democratic Party lost its way. One was Howard Dean who was the only 2004 candidate to understand the immorality and corrosiveness of the Iraq war and followed that up with a courageous effort to make the Party national once again. The other was Ned Lamont who would not let the Democrats nominate someone who would have continued to make the Party a cheap imitation of the Republicans. They are the true heroes.

  •  Banner ad (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It's not so bad, I'm getting used to it. You could ask your advertisers to use kos orange as their primary color though. That would be nice.

    •  GREAT IDEA (0+ / 0-)

      There's NO reason why banners ads should be a free-for-all. You're absolutely 100% spot-on with the idea of design guidelines for the banner ads. The idea of the use of the Kos orange is particularly good. Hell, make it a CONTEST....the best use of Kos Orange in a banner ad (readers would vote in such a poll) gets a 6 week credit towards another banner ad or something.

      Keep up the commonsense randallt!

  •  Um kos? (0+ / 0-)
    you say that

    These are the same jokers who funded Bloomberg. Who are raising money for Lieberman.

    I'm sorry but isn't the junior senator from Colorado OPENLY SUPPORTING LIEBERMAN FOR RE-ELECTION?

    I guess he gets a pass tho.  Senator Salazar certainly isn't one of those, what are they?  Oh yeah, New York Money Liberals.  Bet you think we're all from the Upper West Side too, huh.

  •  Primary Challengers (0+ / 0-)

    I think Emanuel and Schumer need primary challengers to let them know that there's a price for making stupid decisions.  We don't even have to beat them.  We just have to fight them.  Unfortunately, Schumer's in until 2010, but it's not too hard to start thinking about making him think.

    I even have my candidate picked out.  The wonderful thing about New York is that it has those really liberal residency requirements so that basically anybody can run and I can't think of anyone better to take on Schumer than Paul Hackett.

    •  Schumer at Pride (0+ / 0-)

      When I see Chuck Schumer with a bullhorn in the NYC Heritage of Pride Parade smiling and determined and shouting for civil rights at the top of his lungs all the way down Fifth Avenue, I realize Chuck can make good decisions, too.

    •  what happened to him in ohio? (0+ / 0-)

      this intraparty slicing and dicing of leaders and believing mumbo jumbo such as the fantasy that where a party holds its convention will effect voting outcomes are examples of what party members amuse themselves with when they have no power to exercise.


  •  Mississippi Loves Dean (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "What he has spent it on, apparently, is just hiring a bunch of staff people to wander around Utah and Mississippi and pick their nose."

    We get no respect! Those organizers in Mississippi have done wonders. We don't have any competitive races this year, but you wait. We are a natural constituency for Democrats. We're last in everything good and first in everything bad. Mississippians will eventually realize that outlawing gay marriage and abortion doesn't put bread on the table and that the Republicans have done nothing for us, and those organizers Dean sent us are helping to spread the message.

    PS I'm with naltikriti. Bring the Convention to NOLA - site of Bush's second biggest failure.

  •  kos can wait 4 to 10 years but i can't (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    the OTHER rasmussen

    this is the stuff that makes me question the leadership of kos. i am no big fan of schumer or emanuel or clinton for that matter but one of the most richest most consistent parts of the democratic party is told to fuck itself and to watch at how we will all thank dean in 10 years. i wonder if we will even remember dean in ten years. to beat the republicans we need to gather together all of our resources and efficiently use them to win in 06,07,08,09,10 and so write off the next four to ten years because an articulate doctor from vermont has a hypothesis about how to win is idiocy and it seems to me that kos is on some mission of internal party cleansing that i want no part of...maybe if he had stayed a republican we'd be better off. i say win at all costs now for the very world of our children and grandchildren is being destroyed right the fuck now!

    i hope some new more productive leaders emerge quick because this prattle is bullshit and by the way no one votes for a party because the convention was held in their state...get a grip!

  •  This New Yorker votes for Denver (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I love my city. It's truly one of the greatest on earth and (IMO) the uncontested greatest in this nation.

    But from the standpoint of sending a message to the country, Denver has freshness written all over it.

    And let's be honest here, holding the Dem convention in New York would simply reinforce the false image that our party is about nothing but Northeast liberals.

    No knock against my fellow NE liberals, but I grew up in a small town in the Midwest, then spent 10 years in New Orleans before coming here. That hoary old "Northeast liberal" tag resonates with a lot of heartland folks, and not in a good way.

    •  NE liberal.... (0+ / 0-)

      I used to bash NE liberals a lot. Sometimes still do, especially insofar as many seemed soooooooooooooo slow to realize how must the Religions Right was influencing this nation.

      I was born, raised, and educated in Iowa. I've lived in NYC for nearly 10 years. My NE liberal bashing has pretty much stopped though, because I've come to realize that those NE liberal are far less likely to be the right-leaning populists of the Midwest, West and South that would still happily deny a woman's right to choose, continue to keep discrimination in place in law (or through the absense of law) against Americans who happen to be gay, or water down science education or medical research in the name of religious morality, blah, blah.

      NE liberals can be naive about the rest of the US, but the NE liberal is great. The problem, I think, is the Big Money liberal who is different. The Big Money NE liberal looks down his nose at the NE liberal rank and file who have never been west of the Hudson but would NEVER surrender on issues like Choice. The problem is, the rank and file NE liberal has NO influence and NO access. It's the Big Money liberal who does, and Clinton et al uses them as an ATM machine--the jet touches down, the passenger gives a speech to a $10,000/plate dindin, and then takes off, cash in hand. The people who stand on the street corner with campaign lit and give their heart and fucking soul to local races get shit. THOSE are the real NE liberals, and I don't bash them anymore.

  •  Minneapolis/St Paul (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Minneapolis-St Paul was just chosen by the Republicans to host their convention. It will be hosted in both cities(why do you think they call it the Twin Cities?).  This is a proud progressive region with proud and strong unions. Minn/SP was a finalist as well for the Democrats.

    We've got Humphrey-Mondale-McCarthy-Wellstone, among others as great American leaders who came from here.

    The Republicans chose us in Minnesota because they want to be in enemy territory and make an impact on a state that is strongly blue, with a well organized red faction. Using that as a guide, we should choose Denver.

    And if Bill Richardson is our nominee, then we have stated that we will be a Northeast, West, and Mountain West party.

  •  the rest of the country is tired of the NE (0+ / 0-)

    in general directing us poor dem peasents in other states.

    NYC or Boston. Same shit. It gets old to be talked down to since you are in the south or the midwest or the rockies...God help the lonely dems in alaska...they must be spoken to like mentally-challenged children by these people.

    personally i love nyc, but if we need to be held hostage to have the convention there...when the rest of the country is just on the verge of seeing blue. Its going to be a epic mistake made by millionaires that dont want to schlep to somewhere else.

    Well tough tits, its our party too.

    ps...please erase that borrough full of republicans on staten island. Dump garbage there or something...they are really annoying to the rest of the country.  

    graduated from circular firing squad, Im happy to report that I was the only survivor.

    by NextGen on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 06:18:29 PM PDT

    •  I call bullshit (0+ / 0-)

      You need to make a distinction better the NE liberal and the NE liberal Big Money Leadership.

      MOVEON.ORG IS BASED 2 BLOCKS FROM MY UPPER WEST SIDE APARTMENT. I see Al Franken (who's probably now Big Money these days) once or twice a month. I am on the board of of the City's greatest Dem club, which is filled to the rafters with save-the-whales, protest-the-[Vietnam, er, I mean Iraq]-War old school Dems, who worked their goddamn fucking asses off in Pennsylvannia in 2004 going there by the busload, and giving 100's of hours and more money than they can afford. THIS is not, I assume, the "NE" you mean. If it is, you need to spend some fucking time here, my friend, ON THE STREETS with the rank and file.

      The problem isn't the NE liberal, it's the Big Money types, and I'd recommend that all dKos readers understand that there IS a difference between the two.

  •  "...frakin New York" ? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IseFire, richter, mets2005

    Hey, I'm 100% behind holding the convention in Denver (New York has had its share) but, c'mon Kos, do you really need to insult NYC in a provincial manner? You can justifiably rail against DC and NY power elites (and I agree with you), but the city itself has taken enough insults from a host of ignorant anti-intellectuals in this country. Do you really wish to join them? If so, I hear they are very opinionated about PC central, Berkeley, CA.

  •  The same Sorry bunch of people are killing Tx (0+ / 0-)

    Most of candidates cant rasie any big money because of them. You meet every day people ready to vote for Democrats and we can't get our message out and I think we will still win. Then the new leaders can tell them to shove it

  •  Enjoy A2!! (0+ / 0-)

    "We need to ask America to adopt a new kind of patriotism, a patriotism about something more than just war." -- John Edwards

    by philgoblue on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 06:48:13 PM PDT

  •  No political advantage to NYC? (0+ / 0-)

    It seems to me that holding the DNC close to ground zero and saying that 7 years after 9/11, the mastermind behind the attacks is still at large thanks to the Republicans in power would be a tremendous political advantage.

  •  Banner ad = good. Denver = great` (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    singe, mets2005


    My first-ever (I think) real, live, blowin'-my-top screed on dKos. I really, really, really don't see what the big deal is about the banner ads. My understanding is that they are, even if only indirectly, AN INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE OF PROGRESSIVISM online. So, stick with them through the calendar year and see if users are at best ambivalent come Jan. 1. Through the election isn't a good time frame. Everybody on this site will be all moody and shit after Dems fail to take back House or Senate (not they we shouldn't be moody under those conditions!). Let everybodies' meds get adjusted during November and December, and then take a poll about the banner ads.


    I'll officially be a New Yorker on March 1, 2007, because it will mark my 10 years living in the City. So, as an almost-New Yorker, I'm here to tell you that I've not meet ONE New York Democrat who thinks it makes a BIT of fucking sense to have the convention in NYC. I'm on the Board of one of the largest Democratic Clubs in NYC, Community Free Democrats, and I talk a lot to a lot of Dems and some of them are Big Money.


  •  An Alternative Suggestion (0+ / 0-)

    Instead of picking a city -- let's pick a lovely National Park (I suggest Yellowstone) and make the whole convention much cheaper for the delegates and all by setting out camping areas for tents and campers.  We could invite all sorts of great cooks to set up food tents, with large picnic table areas for eating -- and what great backdrops.  Just imagine a candidate accepting a nomination with Old Faithful as the backdrop.  Instead of dropping the profits from a convention on a city -- why not just set up a foundation that would pay for park improvements in the wake of the convention.  

    The cost for either buying or renting top quality camping equiptment for such a convention would be about the same or less than the cost of a two night hotel stay -- and the rental of enough porta potties and portable showers would be reasonable.  It would be sufficiently different that the TV audience probably would be with the event gavel to gavel, and we could invite all sorts of advocacy groups to sponser Nature Walks for delegates, their families, and Convention Attenders.  We could make it a nearly total non-car convention just by bringing in enough Hybrid busses to move delegations about, and otherwise people move.  A place like Yellowstone has enough cabins and hotel rooms so that the handicapped and those who absolutely have to sleep under a hard roof could be accomodated -- but I suspect the adventure of tenting and engaging some nature probably would be attractive to many delegates and guests.  I would suggest it would make a fantastic TV presentation and story.  Let the Press rent fancy Campers -- the Bloggers should tent camp together at some specific mud pot or meadow.  (with WiFi).

    Most of us DFL'ers here in Minnesota had been anticipating a DNC announcement that the Democrats had selected Minnesota.  Apparently an agreement is in place that the parties will not select the same city -- so -- well shit.  We have not had a political convention since the 19th Century, and we are due -- but we are not due thousands of Rip Roaring Republicans.  

    Unofficial Democrats need to start planning for what is to be done in Minnesota during the Republican Convention that distracts from their script -- and I am not suggesting massive marches or demo's.  Please not so many puppets and stick walkers.  

    What is possible, and I would recommend is something in tune with the fact that Al Franken will be running for the Senate against Norm Coleman in 2008.  Let's have an international convention of Progressive Stand Up Comics -- headquarter it in another Minnesota city such as Rochester or Duluth, and then create venues in all the small town which rarely get a good show.  Spread it down into Iowa and over into Wisconsin.  A convention that is part comic show and part opposition.  Make Chris Matthews have to travel to find the action instead of the other way around.  

  •  bashing nyc because it deserves it. . . . ? (0+ / 0-)

    The logic that the NE liberal is the PROBLEM and not the inspiration or bar is similar to the logic that blames feminists, gays, and athiests for 9/11. What caused 9/11 was a complex soup of ingredents with the main ingredient/broth being simply religion.

    The problems of the Democratic Party also are numerous and make a complex thing larger than the sum of the parts. to vandalize/brand the party with the stamp NY LIBERALS as if it's a crime reflects a dis-connect with reality. NYC liberals and NY State liberals as a whole are very progressive, perhaps sometimesa bit naive, but are also INSPIRATIONAL. They are not the problem.

    I think Kos knows this. I think/hope he was just not being careful with his wording, which--frankly--is okay. (I mean, how many posts does this guy author in a week! He can't be a paragon on clarity every time!!!) I think Kos and some of the commenters need to understand they their comments seems to suggest that most NY Dems are rich (they aren't), moderate (they aren't), and problematic (they are Dems everywhere--Dems of each region in a different way...Dems in the West and Midwest and South are problematic and inspiring, too!)

    Kos' post and the comments of some others just read WAY, WAY too much like a trashing of all NY Dems, and it's basically demonization and stereotyping, and very, very, very disappointing.

  •  sigh....Kos did write "establishment" (0+ / 0-)

    I'm re-reading Kos' post, and while I still thing he has some apologizing to do, he did use the phrase "establishment" when targeting the sort of Dems that are the problem in NY (and DC).

    I'm guessing that Kos, who has been to NYc and done book-signings here, etc., is aware of the fact that there are literally 1,000's of NYorkers who will only ever read his book by checking it out of the library...they can't afford book purchases....yet they give blood, sweat, and tears, and hours working their asses off for Democratic candidates in NYC, NY, CT, NJ, and Mass. These rank and file are not "establishment."

  •  Banner ad looks good (0+ / 0-)

    Don't apologize for, please. Adds nice color to top of page. Simply looks good (if different). Well, because you're picking quality ads.

    Be good to each other. It matters.

    by AllisonInSeattle on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 11:32:05 PM PDT

  •  Following the Republicans (0+ / 0-)

    Nonsense. They just want to have the convention in New York because the Republicans had their convention in New York last time.

    One third of them have no creativity and can't think of anything better to do than to ape the Republicans.

    One third of them envy the Republicans for capitalizing on the World Trade Center site, and want a piece of it for themselves.

    And the remaining third secretly want to be Republicans.

    Re-elect Jennifer Granholm. Keep Michigan Blue!

    by dconrad on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 01:25:37 AM PDT

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