Daily Kos

Kaine to respond to State of Union???

by Jaime Frontero

Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:01:47 PM PDT

Well, anyway, here's my response to the announcement that Governor Kaine will be giving the Democratic response to the State of the Uniion address.

I sent this off to the DNC a few minutes ago; link below.

If this has been Diaried, let me know, and I'll delete.

http://www.democrats.org/...

(My note is five or six posts down)

Dear Governor Dean, et alia -

I note that Governor Kaine has been selected to provide the Democratic response to the State of the Union address.

Brilliant.  No wonder we're called the Fighting Dems.

Let me see, now...  we've got VP Gore, who has been through the fire and has just given what is probably the best speech of this young century.

I suppose Murtha hasn't contributed a damn thing.

Perish the thought Obama might get the nod.  Or Pelosi, or Reid (admittedly not the best of speakers, but a man whose integrity shines).

No.  Tim Kaine - who has done a masterful job of spouting the President's talking points.

Great job.

I would have thought that, at this point - when the administration is severely weakened - the goal might have been to mount an effective attack.  But I see that I was mistaken.

Congratulations on once again positioning the party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

And say?  ...you let me know about how my contributions are needed, the next time you people grow a pair.

JF

I'm just so sick of this shit... aren't you?

JF

Tags: Tim Kaine, SOTU, Howard Dean, DNC (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 69 comments

  •  yep (none / 0)

    i am sick of this shit.

    I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

    by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:02:45 PM PDT

    •  very sick (none / 0)

      Bimini, you have linked to this very diary. Maybe that was the intention! ;)

      Help end world hunger by providing rice to hungry people for free.

      by OLinda on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:09:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm sure it was... mmph. (none / 1)

        The circularity of this kind of reasoning will eventually bite us all in the ass.

        ...but credit where due - kinda fun.

        JF

        It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

        by Jaime Frontero on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:12:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  you know (4.00 / 2)

          lets just see how he does first.

          he got himself elected so the pandering to the middle = failure reasoning here no longer applies.

          lets just see how he does first.

          we even got hill crapping all over the white house these days.

          the decision has been made.  instead of getting everyone whipped into a frothy state of rage and discontent, so much so that kaine could call bush a "nazi" and there are those who would still say "it was 'nazi'-enough... i'm so dissappointed."

          lets just see what happens first.

          and then trash the dude if he falls flat on his face.

          I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

          by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:19:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Umm, err, let me see....... (none / 0)

            You folks haven't forgotten that he got.....what's that word.....ELECTED....and in a red state. Doesn't that mean something to you all??

            by DSKinMD on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:23:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I wasn't trashing Kaine. (none / 0)

            I just don't consider him to be either appropriate to the task, or likely to be effective at what lies before us.

            I believe I was trashing the DNC.

            JF

            It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

            by Jaime Frontero on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:24:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Hardly (none / 0)

            so the pandering to the middle = failure reasoning here no longer applies.

            Do you believe that the national electorate and the Virginia electorate are identical?  Kaine didn't pander to the center.  Kaine pandered to the right.  

            By your logic, the Democrats should run Zell Miller in '08.

            No more Republican rule.

            by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:59:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  yep (none / 0)

              that's exactly what i said.

              zell/clark '08!!!!!

              you figured it out just like that.

              how smart are you??

              I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

              by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:03:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Easier (none / 0)

                I guess snide comments are easier than addressing the issue.

                BTW, the ward heeler act is getting really old.

                No more Republican rule.

                by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:06:15 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  what issue?? (none / 0)

                  me thinking zell should run for prez??

                  who brought that up??

                  you!

                  is that the issue you want to discuss??  if not, pls let me know what issue you want to discuss.

                  thanks.

                  I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

                  by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:08:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  asdf (none / 0)

                    so the pandering to the middle = failure reasoning here no longer applies.

                    Do you believe that the national electorate and the Virginia electorate are identical?  

                    No more Republican rule.

                    by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:09:50 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  no (none / 0)

                      i don't think that.

                      but i also don't think it's identical to castro and market either.

                      as always.

                      somewhere.  in.  the middle.

                      I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

                      by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:12:54 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Queer Baiting? (none / 0)

                        It will illustrate a good point.  

                        Being against gay marriage yet for civil unions could be construed by some as "pandering to the center." But, being against gay marriage and civil unions is pandering to the right.  The majority of Americans support the idea of civil unions, if not gay marriage.

                        And I don't live anywhere near San Francisco.  I live in Michigan.  Would you tell an African-American "but i also don't think it's identical to Harlem either"?

                        No more Republican rule.

                        by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:19:05 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  not everyone (none / 0)

                          who lives in the castro is queer.

                          so i won't take your bait.  nor do i condone the use of that word.

                          i don't know where you live.  but you know where i'm talking about.  the bluest of the blue.

                          my point still stands.

                          yes.  i'd tell someone from harlem america is not identical to harlem.

                          i have no problem with that at all.

                          I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

                          by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:28:22 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  The Reverse is Also True (none / 0)

                            The electorate is not identical to reddest parts of Virginia, either.  It's in the middle.  On the issue of gay civil rights (I can only surmise you that's what you meant by your "castro and market" comment), Kaine tilted to the right, not the middle.  

                            Maybe that's what he had to do in Virginia.  So be it.  But why should a Democrats who represent the minority of the party and the entire country (see also, the Iraq War), continually represent "our side" on the Sunday gabfests and, now, the SOTU rebuttal?

                            No more Republican rule.

                            by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:38:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            •  that's what i just said (none / 0)

                              it's in the middle.

                              I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

                              by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:40:50 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                              •  Kaine is not the Middle (none / 0)

                                When it comes to the "Castro and Market" issue you raised, Kaine is not in the middle.  He's on the right.

                                When it comes to the Iraq War, Biden, Hillary, et al., whom you are also so quick to defend, are not in the middle.

                                No more Republican rule.

                                by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:43:36 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                                •  i didn't say (none / 0)

                                  kaine is the middle.

                                  first.

                                  you raised this question:

                                  Do you believe that the national electorate and the Virginia electorate are identical?  

                                  i answered it.  i said no.

                                  and now you're pointing out to me that kaine is not the middle when i conceded that 4 posts ago.

                                  as for hillary or biden.  all that's pretty debatable.

                                  50 - 52% of america say it was a mistake to invade.

                                  60 - 62% of america says bush royally fucked it up.

                                  so apparently there is a middle ground that reflects the biden/hillary view that bringing saddam to justice was good but bush just fucked it up.

                                  slim though.  only 10%.

                                  everything else is partisan politics.

                                  I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

                                  by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:56:26 PM PDT

                                  [ Parent ]

                                  •  What did you say? (none / 0)

                                    I didn't say kaine is the middle.

                                    Was someone else posting under your name?  

                                    he got himself elected so the pandering to the middle = failure reasoning here no longer applies.

                                    so apparently there is a middle ground that reflects the biden/hillary view that bringing saddam to justice was good

                                    Hey, no one liked Saddam.  But "bringing Saddam to justice" was not put forward as the reason for invading Iraq, even though that's been a Republican talking point since the failure to find the non-existent WMDs.  The "mushroom cloud" was the reason put forward for the war.  Yes, Saddam was a bad actor, and no one will dispute it.  But that's not the reason we were given 3 years, 2,000+ soldiers/marines, and $200+ billion dollars ago.

                                    No more Republican rule.

                                    by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 07:05:29 PM PDT

                                    [ Parent ]

      •  who me??? (4.00 / 2)

        Image hosted by Photobucket.com

        I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

        by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:13:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Grasshopper? (none / 0)

    Oh, I guess that would be Caine, not Kaine.

    Sorry.

    Just watched Kill Bill the other night, so, you know how it goes.

    RV

    Al Gore is running for Gray Champion.

    by RanxeroxVox on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:02:52 PM PDT

  •  What's wrong (none / 0)


       with Kaine? Granted, Murtha would've been a better choice, but Kaine sure as hell ain't bad.

    by usmeagle69 on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:04:56 PM PDT

  •  SOTU (none / 0)

    Wouldn't it be fun to have Gore do it. That would sure start the rumors of a run.

    I don't know a thing about Kaine so maybe I shouldn't comment, but I would love to hear Wes Clark, Obama, Murtha definitely (I bet the Dems are afraid he's too controversial right now), John Conyers would also be great!

    I know what you mean.

    Help end world hunger by providing rice to hungry people for free.

    by OLinda on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:06:29 PM PDT

  •  Nah (none / 0)

    it's a typo.

    Professional wrestler Kane will be doing the response to the SOTU

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:07:24 PM PDT

  •  Already diaried (none / 0)

    Here

    and

    Here

    -6.00/-7.18

    by TarheelDem on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:08:45 PM PDT

  •  Was this Dean's choice? (none / 0)

    Somehow I doubt it.  
    In any case I agree.  Kaine is the kind of guy who we are told we have to tolerate to win in southern states,  He just signed gay bashing legislation.  I think there are many better choices.  

    Unseen Gore Video

    by TeresaInPa on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:20:01 PM PDT

  •  Kaine is a good Democrat (none / 0)

    He has a good record. I don't understand why everyone here is attacking him. He was a missionary in Honduras. I think he will be a good speaker.

    by jiacinto on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:25:17 PM PDT

  •  Arianna Huffington is upset about this too. (none / 1)

    HUffington Post Don't ask me why, but I actually watched Kaine's inaugural address on C-SPAN, and I was stunned to hear him dare compare the cause of Virginians like Patrick Henry and Thomas Jefferson to our cause in Iraq: "They stood here at a time, just as today, when Virginians serving freedom's cause sacrificed their lives so that democracy could prevail over tyranny."

    Iraq as a war to ensure that democracy can prevail over tyranny is George Bush's talking point. God help us if it's also the talking point of the man the Democrats have chosen to respond to him after the State of the Union.

    And during Kaine's run for Governor, he adopted another Bush talking point -- that it would send "a horrible message" to "cut and run" in Iraq. Could that be any further from Murtha's message that Iraq has become a civil war -- a civil war being inflamed by our continuing presence?

    Maybe you are thinking -- at least those of you who have a life and missed his inaugural speech on C-SPAN -- that Kaine is a charismatic speaker who will really wow the American people. Well, he ain't. In fact, he scored so low on the scintillating speaker meter, that today's Note suggests Democrats make it a priority to get the Guv a speech tutor before the State of the Union.

    I've got a better idea. Why don't the Democrats reconsider their choice and pick someone more able than Kaine to make the national security argument? They don't even have to make a big deal out of the switch. Kaine can simply come down with a really, really bad cold that night. Cough, cough... and Murtha is waiting in the wings.

    Sounds like a bad choice to me too.

    And what's with Reid apologizing for calling repubs corrupt and naming names.

    AP Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid on Thursday apologized to 33 Republican senators singled out for ethics criticism in a report from his office titled "Republican Abuse of Power."

    "The document released by my office yesterday went too far and I want to convey to you my personal regrets," Reid said in a letter.

    "I am writing to apologize for the tone of this document and the decision to single out individual senators for criticism in it."

    I want to win against the Rethugs.  Please Dem leaders get a strong, bold plan and stick to it.  Timidity won't help us.

    by petewsh61 on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:38:51 PM PDT

    •  arianna (none / 0)

      is very upset.

      I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

      by BiminiCat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:40:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That AP article (none / 1)

      is quite possibly the shittiest thing, bar none, that I have yet to see written about the Abramoff scandal.

      "Democrats have tried to link Abramoff to Republicans"???  What the flying crap?  Does the AP writer not know Abramoff is a Republican lobbyist dishing out cash to Republicans? Is there some question here?

      I am continually amazed by the lengths some reporters go to in order to pretend there's any question about what party is neck deep in this.  Really, that was such a masterful effort, Mehlman should just drop his pants and accept the full-on sexual service of whoever the hell wrote that. It reads like friggin' Red State wrote it.

      by Hunter on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:52:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah and how about the bit in that article about (none / 0)

        The Abramoff investigation threatens to ensnare at least a half dozen members of Congress of both parties and Bush administration officials.

        Exactly which Democrats are going to be ensnared?  What a bunch of BS from the AP.

        by petewsh61 on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:57:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Sigh (4.00 / 2)

    I wonder who really made this decision.  

    It's such a stupid Washington thing to do though, y'know?  You can just see the Dem strategists saying "this kid's hot in the media b/c he won in a Red State!  We've gotta showcase our rising stars!"  Not realizing that what'll get you into office in Red Virginia following an incredibly popular governor isn't what'll get the country finally listening to the Democratic Party again in areas that it's flagging.  You really see how far out of touch DC flings people in decisions like these.  I just hope this wasn't Dean's choice in the end.

    Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

    by ChicagoDem on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:43:56 PM PDT

    •  Well (none / 0)

      I think Kaine is a good choice. He ran a good campaign in VA. He is not as conservative as people here make him out to be. He is against the death penalty, although he agreed to uphold it (I support the death penalty myself). He ran a pretty progressive campaign--at least for Virginia.

      I think that people are attacking him unfairly here. The man fared well as mayor of Richmond. He was also a missionary.

      by jiacinto on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:47:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  no one is attacking him (none / 0)

        they are just saying that he probably isn't the best choice to put out there as the face of the Democratic Party given that he is far more conservative (for good reason) than the party as a whole and will be limited in how strongly he can coutner the President's lies and deception.
        I'm willing to give Kaine a chance, but it's not going to be easy for him.

        by MattBellamy on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:05:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am NOT willing... (none / 0)

          ...to give Kaine a chance - not that I have a choice.

          I don't want an appeaser.  I don't want someone who spends his life balancing Democratic and Progressive ideals against the necessity of getting elected in a Red State.

          I want a fucking revolution - I want all of the bastards who are destroying our country in jail, or banished, and I want Gore to lead the way.  There isn't anyone I see who is capable, or who could actually win.

          Jesus, I'm more impractical at 54 than I was at 18, huh?  But at least when we were fighting Nixon we won for awhile.

          Shit.  And my daughter wants to bug out to Canada.  I can't.  I just can't.  This place, and the intellectual precepts behind it, are just too important to me.

          JF

          It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

          by Jaime Frontero on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:45:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Such ego on this board (none / 1)

    It's all about ideological purity here, just like the GOP. Every public figure must parrot your personal talking points, espouse your views in every word. Keep telling yourselves how superior you are. Kaine won a fucking election.

    (-2.38, -3.28) Independent thinker

    by TrueBlueDem on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:50:21 PM PDT

    •  So did Gore. (4.00 / 2)

      Winning elections ain't exactly the sine qua non of politics these days, is it?

      I've got no ideological purity - I'm strictly pragmatic, with maybe a touch of Paine. < grin >

      And as for ego... well, I'm looking for someone worth fighting for.  It ain't about me.  If I were superior, maybe it would be - but I'm not.

      I just want somebody who is superior.

      Sorry.

      JF

      It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

      by Jaime Frontero on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 05:56:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Isn't DKos a place for folks to discuss among (none / 0)

      other things Democratic strategy?  What ideological purity are you talking about?  Some of us just think this choice is not a winning choice.

      It's not a personal assault on Kaine.  It's about positioning and strategy and this seems like a bad choice to win in 2006.

      by petewsh61 on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:04:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think one point (none / 0)

      is that we could've picked someone who is more symbolic--or who resonates more easily with an intrinsic message. Murtha is a symbol of pro-military anti-this-war Dems. Obama is a symbol of the future. Gore is a symbol of oh so much. Or even, who knows, a woman!

      I only hope it's not a response, but an attack.

      John McCain is anti-child.

      by GussieFN on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:43:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Who exactly watches the Democratic (none / 0)

    response to the State of the Union anyway?  I know if I can get to the end of the SOTU I feel like I deserve a medal.  How many Americans are going to be glued to the TV for both speeches?

    by peregrina on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:11:06 PM PDT

  •  They probibly picked Kaine due to his recent win (none / 0)

    In a Red state still i would have gone with either Murtha or Feingold to do it.

    Rebuild America. Obama 08!

    by dieharddemocrat on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:13:03 PM PDT

  •  I don't understand (4.00 / 2)

    Why does each of you feel that in order to for the speaker to represent our party, they must agree with you on every issue.

    Tim Kaine represents the part of our party that has been most successful in recent years.  Kaine won a 6-point victory in what was supposed to be a close election.  He did that not by running as a liberal nor by running away from the liberals.  Instead, he promised to keep up the standard set by outgoing Governor Mark Warner:  responsible government.

    In the last four years, Virginia has gone from being a poorly managed state in financial disaster to being named "Best Governed State".  This is no accident.  Mark Warner emphasized a balanced budget, smarter management, and a greater focus on providing the essential services that people expect from their government.  

    Wedge issues like abortion, gay marriage, and gun control have been fairly absent from the news in Virginia these past four years, not because our Governor caved in on them, but because he set them aside in favor of issues such as education, health care, and tax reform - issues with the most immediate impact on people's quaility of life.  By doing this, he reached some important compromises, such as the budget agreement that raised new revenue for essential services.  Tim Kaine has pledged to continue this type of government by beginning with a focus on transportation - another real issue where the government can make a difference in people's everyday lives.

    Unfortunately for those of you who would like a partisan attack on Bush, you will probably be disappointed.  But if you want a speech that highlights how Democrats can be successful at governing, you will enjoy the response from Kaine.  

    Hopefully national Democrats will hear Tim Kaine's speech and wake up to the fact that if we want to win big elections, we need to show just one simple fact: we can govern better than the Republicans.  Kaine is the right face for this message.  He won the biggest election in 2005.  Let's follow his lead.

    by 757 student on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:32:55 PM PDT

    •  Where's this come from? (none / 0)

      "Why does each of you feel that in order to for the speaker to represent our party, they must agree with you on every issue."

      I don't see anybody arguing that the speaker has to agree with every position they hold.  As a matter of fact I doubt you have any idea what all my positions are on various issues.

      What I find upsetting is folks who get upset when we criticize our own.  It's OK to do that here - unlike over in Freeperville.  It won't destroy the party, it just might make it stronger.

      By the way, some nice background from you on Kaine.  I hope your right.  If Bush comes forward with a speech that's light on terror/Iraq and he focuses on the economy, then maybe Kaine will have been a good choice.

      by petewsh61 on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:49:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, You Don't Understand (4.00 / 2)

      issues with the most immediate impact on people's quaility of life

      So, being a second class citizen under a law that says not only can you not marry, you cannot even approximate marriage, is a tedious issue?

      Tim Kaine has pledged to continue this type of government by beginning with a focus on transportation

      If so, then he broke his pledge.

      Kaine spokeswoman Delacey Skinner said that the governor-elect will sign the bill to call for a referendum. Kaine supports the amendment and opposes civil unions.

      I'm sure we're supposed to suck it up now, but throw all kinds of gay and lesbian money - and votes - at the Democrats when they come calling again, right?

      No more Republican rule.

      by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 06:55:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I just took a look at the article (none / 0)

        you linked to.

        Your right - Kaine sucks as a choice.  He is not my type of Dem and I don't want someone who supports an antigay referendum to represent my party.

        This is not some trivial personal issue, it was always my belief that Dems stood for civil rights.  Everyones civil rights.  Hearing this news about opposing civil unions make me believe Kaine is too far to the right.  I don't give a damn if he won an election in a red state.

        by petewsh61 on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 07:12:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sit back down and shut up (none / 1)

        you uppity gay!  What do you think you're doing talking about equal rights for all Americans?

        Why, that must be the crazy in you talking.

        Remember Harvey, it's okay to stick it to the gays.  We're a political albatross and should be happy we aren't in camps yet.

        Formerly of Ann Arbor. Now in Baltimore!

        by Matt in AA on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 07:22:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I Know, I Know (none / 0)

          "What are you gonna do, vote Republican?"

          It's a goddamned shame when the Democrats' new star, selected to give a SOTU rebuttal, is to the right of Arnold Schwartzeneggar, Rudi Giuliani, and a whole host of other Republicans.

          No, I won't vote for Republicans.  And I don't live in Virginia.  But, if I'm ever faced with Tim Kaine on a ballot, I won't waste my vote on him.

          No more Republican rule.

          by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 07:26:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I *hate* it (none / 0)

            when the retort to a gay person bemoaning the anti-gay stance of some Democrats is "Vote Republican and tell me how that works out for you."  Kiss my ass.

            I mean, would progressive Dems be all weak in the knees if the person giving the SOTU response was a segregationist?  Would we be wetting ourselves and breathlessly congratulating the (D) Governor on winning in a coveted red state if he advocated separate schools for black kids or refused to recognize the marriage of a white person to a black person?

            Oh well.  I guess I just have to be patient.    

            Formerly of Ann Arbor. Now in Baltimore!

            by Matt in AA on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 07:55:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  True (none / 0)

              And while I don't think anyone needs a government blessing to make their marriage real, there are those trivial things like making the decision of whether or not to pull the plug (or even being able to see your spouse in the hospital), spousal inheritance and property rights, parental rights, etc.

              I hate to bore folks with such trivial matters.  I need to remember my place, and not bother the important people.

              No more Republican rule.

              by HarveyMilk on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 08:02:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

Permalink | 69 comments