Daily Kos

Forget the myth - Gore was not a weak candidate in 2000

Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 07:38:22 PM PDT

Just had to get this off of my chest - I'm getting tired of otherwise sensible people promoting the notion that Gore was a weak candidate in 2000, that he blew an easily winnable election and therefore we should let pundits like Maureen Dowd off for slandering him. The fact of the matter is that Gore started the race well behind and it was Bush who nearly blew the election.
CNN has a convenient archive of polling stories from the 2000 election that show the progress of the election. Gore started out well behind Bush and didn't catch up until after the Democratic Convention.

As far back as March, 1999 Bush led Gore in polls 52-41.

In June of 1999, 45% of likely voters polled said they definitely wouldn't vote for Gore. Bush had a twenty point lead on Gore over the issues of the economy and foreign policy.

A year before the election, Bush had a 15 point lead over Gore.

In March of 2000, Bush still lead but Gore had narrowed the gap to 6 points.

On the eve of the Democratic Convention, Bush led Gore by 16 points. Only after the convention did Gore pull even with Bush. Maybe the kiss was a good idea. Gore remained close to Bush from then on, winning the popular vote. In an honest count, he would have won the electoral college as well.

Why am I rehashing ancient history? Because the conventional wisdom sees Gore as a Dukakis, someone who blew an easily winnable race. There are similarities between 1988 and 2000, but Gore in 2000 was like Bush the elder in 1988 - a vice president of an administration coming off a scandal, facing an electorate looking for change. This story prior to the Democratic Convention noted the parallels between 1988 and 2000, but also noted that Bush was a far more popular opponent than Dukakis. I might add much better funded as well.  

Bush had a double digit lead over Gore. Thanks to his religion and family background, Bush was on good terms with both the Republican establishment and the Christian Right. Bush demolished previous fund raising records. Bush had the aid of Ralph Nader running to Gore's left. And after all that, Bush came within 1,000 votes of becoming the Republican Michael Dukakis. Remind me again why Karl Rove is supposed to be a genius?

The Daily Howler has done a good job of showing how our chattering class slandered Gore in 2000. In such a close race, this probably was enough to make the difference in 2000. Claing that Gore was incompetent is a convenient way for pundits to excuse their own actions. Gore ran a good race and would have won with honest refs. The pundits want to avoid responsibility for the Bush administration - over 2,000 Americans and tens of thousands Iraqis dead in a needless war, deficits as far as the eye can see, and trampled civil liberties.

Bush and Rove aren't supermen. They've had a favorable environment and a lot of luck but can be beaten - we beat them on Social Security. But constantly tearing down Democratic champions while praising the other side's brilliance isn't the way to do it.

Tags: Al Gore, 2000 Elections (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 102 comments

  •  Brilliance? (none / 1)

    good point

    just how much sense does it make to praise the other side's "brilliance" ?

    •  the dark side (none / 1)

      The Force can be used by the dark side just as well.  Think of it like the do in Star Wars.

      Think 'dark brilliance' and then the word brilliance makes sense.

      To me, at least. ;)

      •  Do not underestimate (none / 1)

        the power of the dark side.

        It takes a second to wreck it. It takes time to build.

        by lando on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 07:46:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  OMG (none / 1)

          I just had a vision of Cheney confessing that he was Al's father.  "Search your feelings Al...."    NOOOOOOOOO!   (Brain scrub.)

          BTW-I saw Al's film, An Inconvenient Truth last night at Sundance.  Truly brilliant, just like Al.  : )

          I marched against the Iraq War before it began, and believe lobbyists are destroying America--that's why I support Barack Obama for the nomination.

          by wvillmike on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 08:42:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I had (none / 0)

            never heard of that film b4, thanks for bringing it to my attention. It sounds super cool ...

            hahah, also you get a 4 for the darth cheney image ...

            "Serch your feelings Al, you know you must run for president" <== potential sig line?

            •  Al's been giving thousands of slide (none / 0)

              presentations about global warming, and the pic is basically a film version of one them--BUT it's not some boring slide presentation at all.  It's entertaining and gripping and insightful, and got a ten-mintute standing ovation Tuesday night.  AL WAS THERE!  

              I'd bet it get's pretty good distrubution following the festival.

              I marched against the Iraq War before it began, and believe lobbyists are destroying America--that's why I support Barack Obama for the nomination.

              by wvillmike on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 09:06:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  parrots (4.00 / 2)

    I'd like to underline what you said.  

    As you have demonstrated, it's all too easy to fall into the trap of parroting someone else's talking points, even if you are not on their side.

    If something is repeated often enough, it sounds like truth, even if it is a lie which hurts you.

    •  Exactly!! (none / 0)

      "Gore was a bad candidate" is now conventional wisdom just because people said it over and over and over. And now people say it's true, because it's the conventional wisdom, right? and everyone knows it's true, right? It's a vicious downwards spiral.

      And amen on the even if it is a lie which hurts you part. We need to stop undermining our own candidates by repeating the lies of the traditional media. Especially on this sight, where we ought to know better ...

  •  Gore did a lot wrong (none / 0)

    and the forced break from the WJC people deprived him of the best on the ground planning available.  His convention speach was exceptional, his transformation since the post-election battle even more so.  He suffered an awful lot from the comparisons of the moment.

    Mambo

    •  I'm sorry (4.00 / 2)

      If its not clear -- Al Gore is the single democrat I know I support for president without qualification.

      m

    •  Don't mean to say he was perfect (4.00 / 2)

      Thanks for the response. I certainly wouldn't claim Gore was a perfect candidate. My point was that he started the 2000 race in about the same position as Bush the elder in 1988. Gore didn't do as well turning the vote around but Dubya was a much stronger challenger than Dukakis. I'd say Gore did as well in 2000 as Bush in 1988 and noone claims Bush the elder ran an awful campaign in 1988.
      •  I'm going to say (none / 0)

        this is your tip jar; have a 4 and a recomended.

        I'm afraid that this well reaserched diary is going to get lost tonight in the "Filabuster Alito" shuffle ... which is a shame. This diary should be referenced from now on in "Gore 2008" diaries whenever people make the argument "but Gore was such a bad candidate in 2000, we don't want a proven loser ..."

        Those people get on my nerves; they have swollowed the traditional media's right wing talking points hook line and sinker, and unfortionatly made them in to conventional wisdom ... I'm glad to see someone debunking it.

      •  Bush Sr could turn the vote around because of (none / 0)

        Willie Horton. That killed Dukakis.

        And it was so ugly that even Lee Atwater apoligized for it short before he died.

        Gore would never smear anyone like that.

    •  Because the WJC people would have helped him a lot (none / 0)

      right?

      Except that Clinton's favorable rating in 2000 was below 40% in every red states and most people thought Gore was TOO CLOSE to Clinton.

      Do not rewrite history. Clinton was a loser in 2000 and he hurt Gore immersely.

      Without the scandals the election wouldn't have been close.

  •  He didn't lose.... (none / 0)

    ...he had defeat snatched from the jaws of victory thanks to the SCOTUS.

    I remember the media treating Gore like a piece of balsa that had been enchanted to form a political golem.  Boring, stiff, and detached.

    They were wrong.

    After the elections, they treated him like absolute dirt, harping on his weight, his beard, etc while the country was run into the ground pre-9/11.

    I like Gore personally. He comes across as honest, and I hope that's the way it is.

    •  The "traditional media" were constantly (none / 0)

      calling Gore boring and stiff. Their lazy equivalency used to drive me crazy--they always made out that Gore's supposed boringness was the equivalent of w's lack of intelligence and inability to make sense or tell the truth.

      It takes a village to raise a special child.

      by roses on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 09:51:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •   Gore was a weak candidate... (none / 0)

    I wish it wasn't true, but the diary argument here doesn't persuade me that the 'myth' is inaccurate.  
    •  Gore may have been weak (none / 0)

      but Bush was far weaker--and I think most Americans--after living through the election season--felt the same way.
    •  Disagree (none / 0)

      He could've polished-off in a few apsects, but pulling even from a 12-20% handicap, handed to him by the scandal (see below), to win the popular vote is in fact a very strong performance, indeed.
      •  the numbers, yeah (none / 0)

        Gore won the election in fact, but he wasn't a great candidate IMO.  
        •  Someone who can overcome 20-point deficit is a (none / 0)

          great candidate.

          The purpose of these campaigns is to convince enough people to get out and vote for you. And in that regard Gore did an impossible job despite the many obstacles he had to overcome.

          Not to mention that he was right. Right about virtually everything. So someone who is right is a weak candidate in your book.

          Something is wrong with your priorities.

          Presidentail campaigns ought to be job interviews.
          Not fancy strategies, talking points or image making.
          Only those who would make a good president should be considered good candidates as we have these campaigns because we have the presidency.

    •  Where did we learn (none / 1)

      all the stories about the "mistakes" the Gore campaign had made, and how Gore was such a bad candidate? From the Traditional Media. I'm disapointed that people have swolowed their lies so compleatly.

      Part of the reason Gore was said to be a bad candidate was because he was a compuslive liar or exagerater. He said he invented the internet right? We all (should) know that's a flat out lie. The media took the things he said, misquoted them and ran with it like their pants were on fire. As a result of their never issuing corrections we still have this myth of "Gore the bad candidate" which now doesn't need supporting evidence, because "everybody knows it's true, right" You "wish it wasn't true" but everyone knows it is ... therefore it must be. Even when someone presents you with polling numbers that Gore didn't start out with a lead that he squandered away by being a bad candidate ...

      •  stories sometimes resonate (none / 0)

        I supported Gore, but Gore gave inconsistent performances. He would swing from "populist" convention gore, for example, to the wincing debator Gore. Also, in general, he never seemed comfortable in his own skin--never seemed to enjoy what he was doing. He's much better now as an ex-candidate--which was also true of Bob Dole. These are not original observations, but the views resonate for a reason.

        Of course, he was a good enough candidate to win the election, which means Bush is even worse. Were it not for 9/11, Bush would be a one-termer for sure.  

        •  I guess (none / 0)

          I never personally observed Gore seeming to be uncomfortable in his own skin, so I can't really comment on the validity of your observations ...

          I will say that there seems to be (or was) a strong perception of Bush as a down-to-earth friendly ordinary kind of guy, who also cared about people a lot (eg "compassionate" conservative). Was there a reality based reason why that story resinated? Judging by his actions as president, I can say I doubt he really does care ... and yet that's what people believed ...

        •  RE:stories sometimes resonate (none / 0)

          He would swing from "populist" convention gore, for example, to the wincing debator Gore.

          Yep and that's somehow a contradiction. If you are a populist you simply cannot be a wincing debator.

          Ridiculous. Such contrived arguments dominate US politics. No wonder that Bush is in the White House.

          And yes stupid stories resonate among people who are willing to accept those stories as facts.

          But if people are stupid and unfair then it's Gore's fault, right?

          •  The contradiction (none / 0)

            It doesn't take a rocket scientist...but let me spell it out:  

            Fire-breathing populists and wincing, cereberal debating styles are, in fact, different.  They have been since Andrew Jackson beat Adams. The same person can't act like both Andrew Jackson and Adams--not credibly, anyway.  

            Over and out.

        •  RE:stories sometimes resonate (none / 0)

          He would swing from "populist" convention gore, for example, to the wincing debator Gore.

          Yep and that's somehow a contradiction. If you are a populist you simply cannot be a wincing debator.

          Ridiculous. Such contrived arguments dominate US politics. No wonder that Bush is in the White House.

          If I wanted I could spin EVERYTHING any candidate does at any given moment. You could tell the same things about Bush's campaing, or Clinton's campaign, compare what they did and said on Monday to what they did and said on Tuesday and see differences if you want to see differences. And you can play that game with anyone, even with yourself. Gee he was no exactly like he was yesterday. He is not consistent.

          What bullshit.

          And yes stupid stories resonate among people who are willing to accept those stories as facts.

          But if people are stupid and unfair then it's Gore's fault, right?

          •  rocket scientist... (none / 0)

            It doesn't take a rocket scientist...but let me spell it out:  

            Fire-breathing populists and wincing, cereberal debating styles are, in fact, different.  They have been since Andrew Jackson beat Adams. The same person can't act like both Andrew Jackson and Adams--not credibly, anyway.  

            Over and out.

    •  In other words for you facts do not matter. (none / 0)

      Even if Bush was the one who squandered a huge lead it was Gore who was a weak candidate.

      And the Sun revolves around the Earth.

  •  The American people (none / 0)

    though it is sometimes had to believe--are not stupid.  I think people saw
    bush for the clown that he both was and is.  But a little election fraud can work wonders.  
    everyone tries to justify post hoc that Bush was "the One>"  I think most of that really didn't get going until after 9/11 which I personally feel was carefully crafted to "ensure the Bush legacy."  (Tin foil held in place with a small elastic band."

    It's weird the disconnect--most people saw through Monica-gate for what it was.  Clinton would have been easily reelcted.  The press seemed to be living in a different country--as they do now.  I like what Murtha says: "The American People are way ahead of us on this."

    •  The people in my office... (none / 0)

      ... equated Bush with "war president". They equated "war president" with "stays in office until the job is done".  Even with all of the evidences of his utter lack of responsibility and failure to work for the people they saw him as a down-home man that had a job to finish.  

      Speaking to other Bush voters outside of work this trend seems to hold fairly true.  More true than I would have hoped.  "Stupidity" and "gullibility" were words I bandied about a lot to myself.  

      In regards to allegations of election fraud....I do believe that something's rotten in the state of Denmark.  There's too many cases of protesting too much from those that won the election, suspect behavior by various politicians (E.G. Blackwell in Ohio, Harris in Florida), and active efforts to keep the election paperless by officials for me to think otherwise at this point.

    •  RE:Clinton would have been easily reelcted. (none / 0)

      Really? That's why he was LOSING to Bush in polls in 2000?

      The best showing he had was a statistical tie among registered voters in Oct 2000 in an ABC poll.

      That Clinton was so popular in 2000 is yet another Democratic myth. His personal approval rating was below 40% in every red state, even in Arkansas.

      There was a CNN poll in Jan 2001 which showed that most people were glad Clinton was leaving office.

      But sure most voters wanted a third Clinton term.

      Prove it. Speculation is not enough, no matter how much it makes you feel good.

  •  Enough (none / 0)

    with the Dukakis bashing.  You write a diary about how Gore didn't actually run a shitty campaign by bashing the Duke?  Gore got slandered?  I'm watching Dukakis get slandered.  After the elections were over, both men were in the exact same position, except that Dukakis did not grow an awesome beard like Gore did.  

    It takes a second to wreck it. It takes time to build.

    by lando on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 07:45:08 PM PDT

    •  They didn't start in the same position (none / 0)

      Dukakis started out leading, not trailing by double digits. As late as the Republican convention Dukakis led Bush. Dukakis did not face as well financed a foe as Gore did. Dukakis ran before the glory days of the right wing media (Fox News, Limbaugh, etc.) Dukakis ran against a man who chose Dan Quayle as a running mate. Dukakis did not have to contend with a third party candidate on his left. And they didn't end up in exactly the same position - Dukakis lost the popular vote and was crushed in the electoral college. One other thing - Dukakis chose Susan "Fox News liberal" Estrich as a campaign manager. So I'd say Gore did better.
      •  Well (none / 0)

        I have promised to not do any more Gore-bashing on this site, so lets see if I can respond without doing so.

        1. In 1988, Bush I was the vice-president to a popular (but scandal-ridden) two-term president --the same position Gore was in.  I think this is a better position to run from than as a challenger.  

        2. Susan Estrich sucks, no quarrel there, but I'll just say that some of Gore's advisors were, um, not so great.

        3. Dukakis ran as much more of a liberal than Gore did, as that was more viable in 1988 than today.  The lack of a challenger from the left was a result of Dukakis's positions (and maybe because Ralph Nader wasn't on Karl Rove's payroll yet).  I think the change in the media and the money involved is what has driven the parties to the right, so the shift in the positions makes up for the differences today.  In effect, that variable has been accounted for.

        4. Gore did win the popular vote.  I can't argue with that.  And Gore was probably a better candidate as Dukakis.  But Dukakis does not deserve to the whipping boy of the Democratic party.  Its pretty rich for Gore and Kerry defenders to say "well, at least they weren't Dukakis."  At the end of the day, all of them lost the election.

        It takes a second to wreck it. It takes time to build.

        by lando on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 08:08:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Very good points (none / 0)

    There's no question there are things he could have done better, but that doesn't mean he ran a bad race.  It's just that the ultimate results couldn't be more tragic.
  •  "He Won Last Time-- (none / 1)

    why couldn't he do it again?" Ed Schultz, clip featured in an ad for his show.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 08:00:56 PM PDT

  •  The press did Gore in. (4.00 / 2)

    It set up a conventional wisdom 180 degrees from the truth...making Gore look like a weak and goofy, distorting and misrepresenting. Check Franken's book on this. The Love Story, Father of Internet, etc, etc.  

    They're still doing it, trying to make him out as crazy. But this time the netroots will act as a counterbalance. Plus, people look at what Bush has done and realize what a terrible mistake the country made. Gore has brought out the differences in his brilliant speeches on our plight.

    The press will swing back the other way when Gore rises again. The whole story line will change. It's a stupid society and dumb way to choose presidents, but there we are.

    •  But Gore had no good clue (none / 0)

      how to deal with the media...
      •  press abrogated (4.00 / 2)

        it's duty, and 2000 was the first election where it became apparent ("Mr. Rove goes to Washington"). It isn't easy to put together a defense because of it.

        Heck, one more pres. election passed, and we still haven't figured out how to counter the MSM biases and spins.

        In fact, it is OUR citizenry duty to reclaim free and independent press, eg, with efforts like this:
        Open Letter to Chris Mathews.

      •  do you (none / 0)

        have proof that Gore didn't know how to deal with the media, or is it that someone in the media told you that he didn't know how to deal with the media then showed you a media controled and edited segment "showing" that Gore didn't know how to deal with the media.

        I also heard during 2000 that Gore was bad at dealing with the media. But I never saw an example of it that wasn't -mediated- or controled by that same media. It's very easy to prove anything, if you only look at selective evidence .... like that both Democrats and Republicans took money from Abermoff, right?

        •  Gore did nothing effective against the media (none / 0)

          An important part of dealing with the media is forcing the media to accept and respect your side. Whatever Gore did, it did not make matters better.

          Maybe Gore acted reasonably well with the media by pre-2000 standards. But his fate was to face Rovean machine of 2000, and he either did not recognize his fate timely, or did not have effective strategies.

          Also his decision not to run in 2004 was a mistake. If his fate was to stop Bush, he had to do that in 2000 or 2004.

          •  Rove had very little to do with the media war (none / 0)

            against Gore.

            They did it on their own. The so-called MSM, which never gave Clinton or any other democrat the treatment they gave to Gore didn't need input from Rove as to how to smear Gore.

            And noone can defeat the echo-chamber without the help of the very same echo-chamber. But that would require the echo-chamber to admit that they were wrong or lied and they simply do not do that because "credibility is their currecy".

            How many times have you heard any pundit or scribe admitting that they lied about Gore or they misrepresented his words?

            Gore did not and does not control the media.
            Noone does other than the media itself and its owners. If they want to destroy someone they can do it and you cannot do a damn thing agains it.

            Gore, for example, told the press the true story about Love Canal. So what? They simply ignored it and pushed the original lie for months.

            Now how do you deal with that?

  •  Excellent diary (none / 0)

    I'd like to add this 3/16/2000 WaPo poll which corraborates your findings.

    It's a detailed poll with information on Gore's job approval and favorability figures too which were both quite high. Which is the justification to the fact that the scandal made Gore pay the price.

    Thanks for posting.

    ---

    Are you reading, philgoblue?

  •  Thank You, Thank You, Thank You (none / 1)

    Thank You! I hate it when people talk shit about Gores campaign in 2000.  I never understood a lot of what democrats were/are whining about.  I thought the guy was intelligent, engaging, and presidential; everything a president should be.  I don't blame 2000 on Gore; I blame it on the 50 million + gullible idiots we have in America; I blame it on the lack of participation and interest; I blame it on the lack of education and awareness. I blame it on many of society's ills, but I don't blame it on Gore.

    "War is the greatest of all crimes; and yet there is no aggressor who does not color his crime with the pretext of justice." Voltaire

    by lostian1 on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 08:15:38 PM PDT

  •  Gore was lousy (3.00 / 2)

    He had eight years of peace and a strong economy to run on.

    Did the "chattering class" attack him?  Yes.  They attacked Bush to.

    I'm a Democrat.  Gore came across as incredibly long winded, equivocal, and arrogant all at the same time.  I can see why the red states would hate the guy.

    Please stop blaming election defeats on other people.  It just makes us all look like sore losers.

    •  Did you actually read the diary (none / 0)

      and the poster's argument about poll numbers?
    •  Perceptions of personality (none / 0)

      are very subjective. John Kerry came accross to me as "long winded, equivocal, and arrogant all at the same time" and yet he got more total votes than the charismatic Bill Clinton did in either of his elections.

      Perceptions of personality are also shaped by what the media shows us. Your view of Bush as a leader, for example, is very dependent on wheather you are watching him standing at ground zero with firefighters, or sitting there slack-facedly holding "My Pet Goat."

      Bush also didn't get the same treatment as Gore. Of the top of my head I know somewhere in Al Frankin's book "Lies" he has an analisys of positive and negitive news stories for both Bush and Gore and Bush's were substantially more positive than Gore ... I'm sure other people can back me up on this.

    •  He was lousy then. (none / 0)

      He was pandering to Bill's triangulation friends.

      He bought that that was the only way to get elected.

      He has changed since then.

      He has let go of the handlers and the appeasers, and speaks his mind.  I so applaud him for that and think he would be a wonderful candidate today.

      But in 2000, he didn't speak his mind, wasn't real, and suffered because of it in my opinion.

      Rick
      08 Preference - Obama
      -9.63 -6.92
      Fox News - We Distort, You Deride

      by rick on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 06:43:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, Gore didn't have (none / 0)

      " eight years of peace and a strong economy".

      Gore didn't create peace and proposerity and the voters knew it. Vice presidents do not get credit for the good things (see Nixon or Bush Sr) but they get the blame for the bad things, anyway.

      And for you to ignore the scandals only demostrates your sloppy analitical ablities.

      Without the Clinton scandals the election wouldn't have been close. But people wanted change after 8 years or turmoil and immoral behavior. Clinton paved the way for Bush to run on "honor and dignity" and it resonated because most believed the country was on the wrong moral track.
      Rove wanted to link Gore to Clinton as much as possible and if Gore wanted to have any chance to win he had to distance himeslf from Clinton and his circles. Remember how the Reps played that clip over and over again where Gore said Clinton would be remembered as one of our greatest presidents?

      The economy started down in March 2000 and tell me: since when is peace a political asset in the US? War is a political asset. Just ask Bush about that. If Clinton had started a war in 2000 Gore would have won in a landslide.

      •  Wow (none / 0)

        since when is peace a political asset in the US? War is a political asset.

        That is a great point, and something I'd never thought of.  I think people just took the relative peace of the Clinton years for granted.  

        It takes a second to wreck it. It takes time to build.

        by lando on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 08:12:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Like Poland in 1939 (none / 0)

    They actually fought a pretty decent war.  Their air force (using obscelent planes) still took out a large piece of the Luftwaffe and their Army bloodied the Wermacht pretty well.  But that story wouldn't do....... Mighty Germany actually had to FIGHT?!? against the Poles?!?!  

    So you had a concerted campaign to convince the rest of the world that it was a walk through.  Newsreel shots of Polish Cavalry dead by tanks... Actually the Polish cavalry were pretty effective in hits on German columns, as a mobile strike force - they NEVER took on armor directly.

    Even after defeat the Poles continued to fight in large numbers.  Polish pilots were disgusted with the lack of agression they saw in the French.  Poles continued their fight in Britain and entered the Battle of Britain at a desperate time - achieving amazing kill ratee.

    Polish troops fought in Italy and Europe AFTER most were finally getting released from the Soviet Gulag.  Many of the regular soldiers fed the Germans when all was hopeless and endured over a year in Russian custody before being released - to make their way to England.

    But the myth of Poland being steamrollered lasts - courtesy of a German campaigh to downplay real and stout opposition  

  •  I remember clearly (none / 0)

    that Bush was always seen as the front runner, and never the underdog in the race, especially early on--the CW was that the country was ready for a change, and after Monicagate even more so. Gore did come back, and he was behind most of the time, and it did not help that the media characterized him as a pathological liar and a stiff piece of wood, not to mention his chronic sighing. How many times did we hear the "Gore claims he invented the internet hahaha what a loser!" or the "Gore claims he was the inspiration of Love Story, hahaha what a bubmling fool that Gore is!" It was outrageous looking back on it, and it was quite a feat that he was able to overcome Bill's blowjob, and a media incesant in its attacks on his credibility, and that egomaniacal freak Nader taking votes away to actually win the popular vote against the favorite Bush. But yes, he did make quite a few mistakes in the process, especially during the recaout disaster and I will not excuse them, however, to ignore the role of the media or the polling that always showed Bush as the odds on favorite is very revisionist.

    "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

    by michael1104 on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 08:23:46 PM PDT

  •  I call bullshit (none / 0)

    While I'll admit that I wasn't the most politically active person in 2000, I watched all the debates, read interviews with all the candidates and generally kept abreast of politics.

    On the face of it, Gore failed to convince me and hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of other voters that he was any different in kind than George W. Bush. His rhetoric was the same as Bush's. His stated positions were close to Bush's stated positions. When asked point blank in the debate's to differentiate himself from his opponent, he wasn't able to supply a single concrete difference.

    The election was his to lose and he lost it. While I may now regret that I cast my vote for Nader rather than Gore, I don't feel guilty about it. Gore failed to demonstrate his true colors during the campaign and he payed the price. He failed to run on Bush's record in Texas and he payed the price. When attacked by Nader over the supposition that there was no meaningful difference between Democrats and Republicans, Gore failed to convincingly respond and he paid the price.

    Just consider how many people here at dKos are vehemently arguing that Lieberman is a DINO (Democrat In Name Only) and then recall who Gore's running mate was in 2000. If Gore had picked a Tony Hall to run with him, he may have been able to close the deal. But he didn't and he failed.

    •  How much political awareness (none / 0)

      or astuteness would it have taken to note the difference between Gore cominng off the Clinton/Gore administration and a then generic-Republican Bush (you had the Regan/Bush-I 3 terms to use as a yardstick)?

      Who knew in 2000 that Lieberman would hawk an unnecesary war in 2002?

      I am afraid you really should regret falling for Nader's fabrications in 2000. Hope you didn't make the same mistake in 2004 too.

      thanks.

    •  Are you kidding? (none / 1)

      Gore ran on Bush's record all the time!  He used Bush's Texas voucher program to attack NCLB, he used the state's records on executions to attack his moral character.  I mean these were usually spun as "exaggerations" or whatever by the media, so you may not remember the actual substance of what Gore said and did, but to say that he ignored Bush's record is absolutely wrong.

      Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

      by ChicagoDem on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 08:59:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Was it (none / 0)

      that Gore failed to distinguish himself from Bush, or was it that Bush was bold-facedly lying about what he was planning to do once elected and made himself sound (centrist) like Gore? I recall there being promises of compassionat conservitism, and we all know what a crock of lies that was.

      I also think Lieberman's DINO credentials were much less apperant in 2000 then they were after his Bush-love-fest ....

    •  If you are blind and deaf that's not Gore's fault (none / 0)

      I watched the same debates and interviews.
      And I could see very well that Bush and Gore were earth and sky.

      So something is wrong in your department.

  •  TWO big mistakes in Gore's campaign 2000 (none / 0)

    One has already been addressed.  He ignored Bubba and his machine.  Bad idea.

    Worse idea.  Joe Fucking Lieberman.  What the fuck was that about?

    I am going to vote for Al Gore for president in 2008.  He was born to clean up after the asshole we have in office.  And I'm grateful Al's around.

    Barbara Jordan = the anti Pelosi

    by Ghost of Frank Zappa on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 08:32:19 PM PDT

    •  Did we (none / 1)

      know what a hack Lieberman was in 2000? I thought at the time he was just the funny looking Jewish Senator with centrist cred.

      Secondly, while picking Lieberman may have been a piss-poor idea for who we actually want as the potential replacement for the president, I don't think Lieberman actually had much to do with Gore's "losing" the election. He certianly couldn't have had any more negitive of an impact than Dick "my face is stuck in a sneer" Cheney ....

      Agreed tho about Gore in 2008 ...

    •  Clinton??? (none / 0)

      One has already been addressed.  He ignored Bubba and his machine.  Bad idea.

      Great idea. Clinton was a loser in 2000. He was losing to Bush in a poll in Jan 2000 by as much as 11%.
      More than half of the country was fed up with Clinton and Gore had to distance himseld if he wanted to win.
      Karl Rove knew that. You apparently cannot digest that Clinton was not popular in 2000 thanks to his stupid behavior.

      Clinton would have helped Gore in 2000 as much as Bush helped Kilgore in Virginia.

  •  Earth in the Balance (none / 0)

    and his call to get rid of the internal combustion engine didn't exactly endear him to the average voter. He's an alarmist and people just plain don't want to hear it.

    I agree with him but it's a hard sell, plain and simple.

    People what to feel good and Bush's rhetoric  made them feel good at least for now.

    Spraying for ghosts.

    by sylvien on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 08:44:53 PM PDT

    •  Are you stupid? (none / 0)

      Or just ignorant?

      Seriously, I don't like to go with personal attacks like this, but repeating that right wing talking point here of all places has got to be one of the least wise things I've ever seen.  It's a breathtaking combination of CNN gullibility and basic Republican scientific illiteracy.

      Al Gore NEVER called for "banning" the internal combustion engine.  He called for promoting alternatives to it, and predicted that the technology was obsolete and on its way out.  He didn't want to ban cars, he didn't want to take your engine away, he didn't want to turn the interstate into a nature preserve.  He wanted different technology to slowly replace the 19th century technology we were using in engines in the late 1990s.  Instead, we got a guy who expanded the loophole for SUVs.

      By the way, you may have heard of a little thing called the Toyota Prius that happened to prove him right a few years later.  

      Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

      by ChicagoDem on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 08:52:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Please read what I actually posted. (none / 0)

        Where did I say he called for banning anything?  Perhaps you should re-read my post.

        Mr. Gore did call for a 25 year phase out of the internal combustion engine.  Read the book.

        I can't afford a Prius.  I drive a Ford Focus wagon, gets pretty good milage.  Hardly drive it though, because I can walk to work.

        Spraying for ghosts.

        by sylvien on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 09:11:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hmm.. (none / 0)

          You said:

          and his call to get rid of the internal combustion engine didn't exactly endear him to the average voter.

          Now, ok, keep in mind that this is with the backdrop of a huge conservative movement that's spent years saying Gore would ban the IC engine.  With that in mind, saying he was calling us to "get rid" of it certainly would seem to imply that you were advancing that commonly-heard winger position.  But if that's not what you were saying I heartily apologize.  I was living in Florida in 2000 and, y'know, that election is still a pretty major sore spot for me, so I tend to pounce when I think I hear one of the GOP talking points from that election.

          Just out of curiosity, where does he detail that in Earth in the Balance?  After responding, I dug out my copy and the most I could find was a part of his "New Marshall Plan" where he says the government should buy fuel efficient vehicles whenever possible and fund research to find alternative technologies.  I haven't read it all the way through since like 2000 though, so I may be missing something.

          And I can't afford a Prius either, but my pre-hybrid Corrolla does ok too.  I only use it to get groceries or when the busses in my neighborhood do that random "disappear into a black hole for a few hours" thing they do sometimes.

          Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

          by ChicagoDem on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 09:43:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  well, he did say something like that (none / 0)

            it's all well-documented at dailyhowler, a site dedicated to debunking the pubs attacks on Gore.

            http://www.dailyhowler.com/...

            Gore explicitly advocated getting rid of the IC engine -- over a period of 25 years. Among others who shared his vision at the time were moonbat wacko lefty crackheads like John F. Smith Jr., chairman of General Motors, quoted in 1998 as predicting a "slow phase-off" of the internal-combustion engine in 20 to 30 years.

            I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

            by UntimelyRippd on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 09:54:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well... (none / 0)

              I mean, is a technological phaseout over a quarter century the same thing as a ban (which is what the Republicans said Gore wanted)?  I'd argue that it isn't.  But it's splitting hairs, I guess...

              Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

              by ChicagoDem on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 10:04:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  you are right ... (none / 1)

                ... it isn't the same thing, as it never was. the important point though is to be able to say, "No, he didn't say THAT, he said THIS, and then the republican lie machine twisted it all around."

                I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

                by UntimelyRippd on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 06:48:16 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  I get your testiness (none / 0)

            being a Floridian during that whole mess.

            Gore, in his book, did call for a phase out of the ICE over 25 years and IMO it riled up a segment of the population that just didn't want to deal with the possibility that cheap oil will become more expensive to access.  BTW, I DID vote for Gore but it didn't matter, I live in NY  and it's a Blue state anyway.  I'll have to find my copy but I KNOW the 25 yr thingy is in there somewhere.

            You're lucky to have busses where you live.  We don't have any.  I walk mostly and have a fold-up cart to grocery shop.  I take our 8/yo and we enjoy picking up blueberry juice for sipping on the way home.

            Spraying for ghosts.

            by sylvien on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 10:18:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Fuck Al From (4.00 / 2)

    The biggest problem with Al Gore's campaign was that Al From was more committed to his latter-day "third way" conservatism than to his party.  The guy blew up after Gore "came out" as a populist in his incredible, moving convention speech and instructed most of the party's heavy hitters to stay away.  To this day, Democratic strategists allied with From will talk about how "the people vs. the powerful" was this massive tactical mistake and how framing things against "the powerful" is awful because the powerful people give us our jobs and we should just be nice little proles.  Gore was basically blacklisted by the man who was seen as the architect of Bill Clinton's ideological victories (which later just turned out to be CLINTON victories, not DLC triumphs).

    The media was against Gore, the idiots on the far left were against him, and the Democratic Establishment was against him.  But he STILL managed to win a majority of the vote.  If we had a Supreme Court that was more concerned with jurisprudence than partisanship, Al Gore would be President.  Show me another candidate that's been able to pull off a victory against a stacked deck like that.

    Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

    by ChicagoDem on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 08:57:33 PM PDT

  •  a little from column A, a little from column B. (none / 0)

    Gore may not have messed up as badly as some people remember, but Bush was also a lot weaker than I think people may remember. I would guess that those polling numbers reflect, in part, people realizing that George W. Bush has no business being anywhere near the Oval Office.

    That said, when I think of Gore now I think, maybe he should run in 2008. When I think of Kerry I think "What were we thinking?"

    And I was not a big fan of "the people vs. the powerful." For one thing, Gore was the sitting Vice President of the United States of America. You don't get much more powerful than that. It's not like he was some maverick candidate or something.

    That said, it was probably a bigger problem that Gore listened to all those other spinmeisters in the early-going and didn't just run as himself the whole time. A lot of people I know complained he was a phony because he changed his manner all the time. Really I think he'd just beeen in Washington too long and was listening to the wrong folks. The real Al Gore is an appealing guy, so far as I can tell.

  •  i never thought he was such a bad little candidate (none / 0)

    ... as a Nader voter, i started out assuming that Gore was going to lose, and i was surprised when it started to look as if i might get to have my cake and eat it too.

    on the other hand, i think most people's perceptions of Gore as a "weak" candidate come from the fact that he couldn't slam dunk the victory even though his opponent was obviously both corrupt and incompetent. Gore, by contrast was obviously competent (remember his whole remaking the government effort), and had only the most approximate taint of corruption about him (remember the shocking -- shocking -- story of the buddhist temple fundraiser?).

    i didn't think he was weak, but in the end i felt that he could have won a substantial victory, Nader or not, if he had hit back hard at the republican lies. for 25 years the democrats have been waiting for the press to call the pubs on their lies -- beginning with reagan's obnoxious and LYING little "heh, heh, there you go again mr. president," denying his own words. carter assumed that press would crucify reagan in the post-debate analysis, but they glossed it over, the useless tools.

    and no, i didn't vote for Nader because i "fell for his lies", i voted for Nader because he was the only candidate advocating a platform that matched my own philosophies. so spare me, and all others interested in this thread, an OT diatribe.

    I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

    by UntimelyRippd on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 09:46:28 PM PDT

    •  oh, yeah ... (none / 0)

      ... and picking lieberman was a colossal blunder. i don't know whose bad advice was involved there. shrum and co, i presume. but it was one of the moments where gore's inability to step far away from the DLC and the party apparatchiks cost him dearly.

      I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

      by UntimelyRippd on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 09:58:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Collosal blunder just because Lieberman is (none / 0)

        not enough liberal for your taste?

        Can you understand that most voters in America are not liberal? Get over it.

        Polls showed that Joe gave Gore a boost. He also helped him in Florida, and without the butterfly he would have won it easily partly thanks to the large Jewish turnout.

        Also, after pikcing Lieberman Gore finally got some badly needed good press. If he had picked Graham you would have heard day after day what an opportunits pig Gore was.

        Joe also helped Gore to distance himself from Clinton's immorality, which whether you like it or not, was a major issue in 2000.

        Most voters picked "honesty" as the most important personal quality they looked for in the next president. And Bush won the honesty vote by 80%(!) Just check out the exit polls.
        It was because of Clinton and the subsequent character assassination of Gore by the press and there's no way Gore could have won had he not shown the public: my administration will be different. There will not be "it depends of what the meaning of is is".

        •  actually, (none / 0)

          as survey after survey shows, most voters identify themselves as centrist or conservative. (but then, they almost all identify themselves as middle class. even lawyers making 250K/year.) if you give them a list of policies and ask which they do or don't support, they are quite liberal indeed.

          Al Gore was not particularly liberal, and 30 years ago Lieberman would have been to the right of the center of the Republican Party. Gore was also not particularly charismatic. I strongly believe that Gore would have done better to grab someone with appeal to voters who represented some combination of younger, browner, liberaller, and maybe X-chromosomier. The Lieberman choice was certainly the last straw for me -- there was no way I was going to vote for that ticket. But I admit, I'm not remotely representative of the American electorate -- the party will have to shift way, way back to the left before I actually feel good about it. In his place (hard to imagine, but still) I would have been looking very, very hard for a woman to take the VP slot, though that would certainly have been a gamble.

          I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

          by UntimelyRippd on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 08:25:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Re:actually (none / 0)

            Gore was also not particularly charismatic.

            And oh charisma is the salt of the earth, the one thing that will solve all of our problems.

            It's useless. It's theater. Charisma is nothing but the power to fool the masses into agreeing with you without making them understand what you actually talk about.
            Hitler was charismatic, bin Laden is charismatic.

            They say Clinton is charismatic, even though he leaves me cold. But guess how many people understood Clinton's platfom in 1992? When they saw Clinton was raising taxes they were outraged and Clinton's approval went down to 45%. All of a sudden they didn't care about charisma.

            I don't want charismatic people in the White House. I want people who know the government in and out and who knows how to solve problems.

            I strongly believe that Gore would have done better to grab someone with appeal to voters who represented some combination of younger, browner, liberaller, and maybe X-chromosomier.

            You can believe whatever you want. But you cannot prove it.
            You don't know whether one more voter would have voted for Gore just because he had picked that "someone with appeal to voters who represented some combination of younger, browner, liberaller, and maybe X-chromosomier."

            So you say picking Lieberman was a blunder. Without having any evidence that  Gore indeed lost more voters as a result than he would have lost with that mysterious  "someone with appeal to voters who represented some combination of younger, browner, liberaller, and maybe X-chromosomier."

            I could say that if Gore had picked a red dragon as his veep he would have got more votes. But that alone would not make it so.

            The Lieberman choice was certainly the last straw for me -- there was no way I was going to vote for that ticket.

            Well, then thanks for the last 5 years. Great job.
            Voters are not rational beings, for sure.

            •  well, (none / 0)

              i do know that at least one voter would have voted for Gore if he had used his VP choice to signal left instead of right.

              you're right, though, i can't "know" any of this. but then, you can't "know" any of the things that you have been asserting as truths either. do you honestly believe the Republican victories of '94 and onward were due to the average voter getting outraged over Clinton raising taxes on the top 10%? give me a break. Clinton never won 50% of the popular vote (unlike Gore), but he came a lot closer in 1996 than he did in 1992, despite the endless onslaught of anti-clinton propaganda produced by VRWC, especially the whitewater business.

              you may not want charisma, but guess what: charisma gains votes. so given the choice, it makes sense to select someone with both brains and charisma. in any event, you have now switched horses in midstream: you were arguing that i'm incorrect in analyzing why gore didn't win more votes, but now you're arguing that you care less about the votes than about the principles. i'm not really prepared to argue against you there.

              my vote was perfectly rational. a right wing democrat chose a far-right wing democrat in order to win control of the country, presumably to effect a right-wing agenda. i'm a radical left-winger, in most respects, and in particular i'm opposed to the American Empire and the policies that sustain it. why would i vote for a pro-imperial ticket?

              I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

              by UntimelyRippd on Sun Jan 29, 2006 at 04:16:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  RE:well, (none / 0)

                i do know that at least one voter would have voted for Gore if he had used his VP choice to signal left instead of right.

                And one voter would have made all the difference in 2000. We all know that.

                Even if it had how can you know that Gore wouldn't have lost more than one voter with a running mate that you would have preferred?

                but then, you can't "know" any of the things that you have been asserting as truths either.

                I certainly can know that after Gore picked Lieberman he went up in the polls, not down, and that he got some good coverage following that decision.

                do you honestly believe the Republican victories of '94 and onward were due to the average voter getting outraged over Clinton raising taxes on the top 10%

                I didn't say anything like that. But sure Clinton's approval rating went down after he raised taxes and sure it contributed
                to the Dem defeat -- along with other factors, like Somalia, gays in the military and Hillary's health care disaster.

                The average American DO care about taxes and the average American voter does not like tax increases. Just ask Mondale about that.
                The Reps used the tax increase as an issue during the  "Contract with America" campaign. And not because they polling showed that the tax increase was popular.

                Clinton never won 50% of the popular vote (unlike Gore), but he came a lot closer in 1996 than he did in 1992, despite the endless onslaught of anti-clinton propaganda produced by VRWC, especially the whitewater business.

                He was an incumbent president during prosperity running against an old Senator and it was BEFORE Monica. It was a no-brainer.
                And still he could not get 50% of the vote.
                By 1996 Whitewater was an old story. The media barely mentioned it during the campaign.

                you may not want charisma, but guess what: charisma gains votes.

                You cannot possibly know whether more than 100 million voters vote for someone because they think he is charismatic.
                I doubt that Carter was charismatic he still won because people were fed up with the Nixonian ethic. Bush was not charismatic at all but he still won because people were afraid of Dukakis's "exterme liberalism".
                Kennedy was supposedly charismatic and he just barely won against Nixon while Nixon was not charismatic at all and he also won a close election then a landslide.

                It depends on a lot of factors why someone wins. It's silly and superficial to say that charisma , no matter the circumstances, wins enough votes to win the election itself.

                so given the choice, it makes sense to select someone with both brains and charisma.

                No it doesn't. Since charisma is useless in the presidency itself it is useless during the presidential campaign, too.
                And if you don't have a platform with which most voters agree you will lose, charisma or no charisma.

                in any event, you have now switched horses in midstream: you were arguing that i'm incorrect in analyzing why gore didn't win more votes, but now you're arguing that you care less about the votes than about the principles.

                I didn't say anything like that. I don't agree with you that "charisma wins votes" to being with,
                i.e. that it's some kind of deciding factor overshadowing everything else, as many other factors influence voters during every campaign, particularly when there is some kind of crisis. Recession, war or scandal.

                my vote was perfectly rational.

                As much as claiming that "Gore is a right-wing democrat" and "Lieberman is a far-right democrat" is rational.
                Nothing could be further from the truth.
                But again. If you want to think that black is white and left is right you will think that until the hell freezes over.
                But it will not make you rational.

                why would i vote for a pro-imperial ticket?

                Gore/Lieberman was not a pro-imperial ticket, that's why.
                But as you said you are a radical and radicalims has nothing to do with rationality. Just check out Bush who is also a radical and not surprisingly irrational.

        •  btw (none / 0)

          you will note that we agree on the key failure -- that he did not effectively counter the republican lie machine. and i agree that the worst lie of all the lies was the lie that gore was habitually untruthful, because as you note, the public was sick of clinton's calculated deceit.

          on the other hand, look at the example you chose: "It all depends on what your definition of is is." This, as it happens was not a lie. Clinton said, in his deposition, what any reasonably sharp lawyer would have told him to say. The question was asked in the present tense, and he responded in the present tense. The pundits and smartasses and late-night comedians then pounded him mercilessly for it, but he was absolutely right. The big lie was the one where he looked into the camera and said he did not have sexual relations with Monica. The problem being that in that case, he was not under oath, and he was not being asked a particular question. Instead, he constructed his statement in a way he thought he could somehow defend at some future point. But the public wasn't buying it. And rightfully so.

          I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

          by UntimelyRippd on Fri Jan 27, 2006 at 08:35:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Re:btw (none / 0)

            that he did not effectively counter the republican lie machine.

            It was not really a republican lie machine. It was the echo-chamber mass media which worked like  machine to beat Gore.
            Bush virtually had to do nothing. The press did it for him.

            And Gore did not effectively counter it?
            Noone could effectively counter it. Simply because the only thing that will defeat the hype is the very machine which creates it.
            I.e. CNN, ABC, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, FOX, USA Today, NYT, WaPo and countless of other outlets all over the country.

            If the mass media is against you collectively there is nothing you can do.

            Clinton never had to deal with that. There was the right-wing noise machine but he MSM never treated him so unfairly as they treated Gore.
            In fact in 1992 the press was against Bush sr (as they wanted change just to have new matrial to cover in the White House).

            Just ask Bush Sr whether he could counter that stupid supermarket scanner hype.
            He coulnd't because the echo-chamber made it to be "the truth".

            "It all depends on what your definition of is is." This, as it happens was not a lie.

            I didn't say it was a lie. It was a sentence, however, which symbolized the less-than-straightfoward nature of Clinton and with that the entire Clinton era. Gore had to convince the electorate that this would be over once he would become president.

            Clinton said, in his deposition, what any reasonably sharp lawyer would have told him to say.

            Well, sharp lawyer or not it was an attempt to hide the truth. And Clinton knew that.
            I watched his testimony and the entire stuff was about: just don't admit it.

            •  but ... (none / 0)

              a. the point i'm making about "is is", is that the media took legal deposition testimony and presented it as something other than what it is. all depositions are, to some extent, fishing expeditions. yes, clinton was trying to conceal the truth, but why the hell shouldn't or wouldn't he? the truth he was trying to conceal was only related in the most peripheral way to the case at hand. only an idiot would have done anything else. his statement was not only true, it was was also perfectly ethical in the context. instead of smugly laughing about, every intelligent pundit in the country should have been making Clinton's case for him.

              b. not once did Gore or any of his appointed representatives take the simple step of saying, Mr. Bush and his delegates are lying. that would have been the only way to fight that battle in the media: everytime someone puts a microphone in front of you, use the L word, and explain why. go on letterman, and joke about it, but then turn serious, and say the problem is that the Republican candidate is a liar, and he's lying about this.

              c. i disagree that the MSM weren't unfair to Clinton. paula jones, monica lewinski, whitewater, these were all 2-bit non-scandals that the MSM pumped and pumped and pumped for clinton. as noted above, "is is" was milked endlessly.

              I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

              by UntimelyRippd on Sun Jan 29, 2006 at 04:27:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Re:but ... (none / 0)

                not once did Gore or any of his appointed representatives take the simple step of saying, Mr. Bush and his delegates are lying. that would have been the only way to fight that battle in the media:

                Except that the media would have just accused Gore of being "negative" (as they did whenever he attacked Bush)
                "arrogant", "hypocrite" and they would have pushed the "Al Gore wants to teach us about honesty? Hahaha" line.

                It's not enough for a candidate to say that his opponent lies. That lie has to be exposed by the mass media and repeated from coast to coast. If they do not do it, and instead they attack the accuser, it simply backfires. And there is no doubt that if Gore had just bluntly stated that Bush was a liar Gore not Bush would have paid the political price.

                i disagree that the MSM weren't unfair to Clinton. paula jones, monica lewinski, whitewater, these were all 2-bit non-scandals that the MSM pumped and pumped and pumped for clinton. as noted above, "is is" was milked endlessly.

                1.With regard to Monica, Clinton did it. OK? It was not a hype. It was something that indeed happen. Clinton indeed had an affair with her and he indeed lied about it. Gore however did not collect money in the Buddhist Temeple, he did not say he and his wife were teh model for Love Story, he did not say he invented the Internet, he did not say he wrote the EITC bill, he did not say he discovered Love Canal etc.

                2.Paula Jones was mostly the creation of the right-wing press not the MSM. You cannot compare that to what the MSM did to Gore without regard to the Internet, for example. Not even close.

                3.Whitewater was also mostly a right-wing bruhaha, the MSM quickly forgot about it. By the 1996 campaign it was a big fat non-issue.

                And whatever the MSM did to Clinton, they never deliberatly turned him into a laughingstock. But that's exactly what they did to Gore.
                They did not put words to Clinton's mouth so often and they did not use those words to call him a liar over and over and over again.

                The difference between the MSM coverage of Clinton and the MSM coverage of Gore is that the former was just sensational.
                The press wanted a good story they believed the sheeple would consume.
                The later was absurd, fundamentally dishonest and driven by the scribes' and pundits' dislike of Gore.
                They never had the same feelings about Clinton.

    •  Unfortunatly (none / 0)

      Bush was somehow not "obviously both corrupt and incompetent" to a large part of the country. That is still a big mystery to me, how after running many companies and the State of Texas into the ground people could believe he was in any way qualified to be president of the United States of America. I guess I have heard people say that they knew he wasn't so smart, but trusted he would suround himself with compitent people ... oh what a mistake that was.
  •  Very well said. I'm amazed how liberals are just (none / 0)

    as eager to rewrite history as wingnuts.

    What did Gore blow? A huge lead? He didn't have a huge lead. Bush had a huge lead. He had the advantage not Gore. Gore had to come from behind.

    And he won at the end.

    That's what you achieve with a bad campaign?

    Haha

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