Daily Kos

Meta Madness: Diaries

Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:09:28 PM PDT

Given this cool diary by Jotter, it seemed like a good starting point for a series of meta diaries this week laying out the site's "Official Guidelines".

It pains me to write the word "official", since this site was always very organic in self-governance, without a strong hand from dKos HQ. But given the site's growth, it was inevitable that something more official had to be put together. And with the help of the irregulars and me, DavidNYC put together the guidelines that I'll be rolling out throughout the week and adding to the dKosopedia.

But I'd like to make one big sweeping statement about diaries. Many people criticize the Recent Diaries list for scrolling through so quickly. They feel that their content doesn't get fair play on the site's homepage. Jotter's numbers in that diary confirm that -- the site averages 248 diaries a day, most of them I'm sure crammed in during the daylight hours. There's a lot of noise to break through, and as such, many people begrudge those diarists that have developed "star" power on the site (Jotter lists those people out as well).

But here's the fact -- every person who has risen to a position of prominence in the diaries started with the exact same limitations and challenges. Everyone on the site has equality of opportunity. If your words resonate with enough people, chances are you'll separate from the masses. If not, then you won't. It's like anything else in life. And even if you're not one of the star diarists, opportunities to shine exist and happen all the time. From  Jotter'sdiary:

Interestingly, of the 117 [most recommended and commented] diaries shown, corresponding to 5% of total diary impact, 90 different authors are represented. Of these 90, only 35 are on the list of 117 top impact authors.

So people can stand out from the crowd when their content warrants it. But generally speaking, no one has a right to be read or heard. You have to earn that respect. If you are writing for personal accolades and fame then you have absolutely the wrong motivation. The same goes for bloggers in general.

But note that even 30 minutes on the Daily Kos recent diaries list represents 25,000 visits during normal traffic hours. That's not insignificant. But people's expectations have become corrupted by the success of a few. And while that is inevitable, it's also a bit tragic. The beauty of the blogs and this site is that you have a voice and can share it with the world. There is intrinsic value in that whether 10, 100, 1,000 or 100,000 people read you. And given the fierce competition in the media lanscape (online, offline, and broadcast) for reader and viewer attention, getting anyone to focus on your material is still a remarkable accomplishment.

Without further ado, the "new" Diary guidelines are below the fold.

  • ::
DAILYKOS DIARY GUIDELINES

  1. All users are limited by the system to one diary per calendar day.

  2. New users cannot post diaries for one week after an account has been created.

  3. "Intro" box for new diaries has a three paragraph limit. If you exceed that limit, use the "Extended Body" box for the remainder of your diary.

  4. Diaries should be substantive. A good guideline is that if you don't have at least three solid paragraphs to write about your subject, you should probably post a comment in an open thread, or in a recent diary or front-page post that covers a topic relevant to what you wish to write about.

  5. Copying and pasting complete copyrighted articles without permission from the copyright holder is absolutely prohibited by both this site's policies and copyright laws. Copyright infringement can expose both you and the site's owners to financial liability. Just don't do it. And if you see someone else doing it, please politely ask them to edit their diary accordingly. This is a bannable offense.

  6. Limited copying within the bounds of the doctrine of "fair use" is permitted. A reasonable rule-of-thumb is that copying three paragraphs from a normal-length news article or editorial is acceptable. (This, however, is not a safe-harbor. If even three paragraphs seems like "too much," then copy less or nothing at all.) For more on fair use, please visit this site.

  7. When you quote material that is not your own, please provide a link whenever possible. Also, use the blockquote tags to set off the copied material so that your writing is distinct from the material you are copying. For more on HTML tags, click here.

  8. Hotlinking images without permission is prohibited. Hotlinking means using the [img src] tag to display an image on a diary which is hosted on someone else's server. Hotlinking, especially on a site as popular as this one, can cost people real money in bandwidth costs. It's essentially stealing. If we get complaints from sites about images being hotlisted, we will consider that as possible grounds for banning.

  9. Duplicative diaries are prohibited. Please scan the recent diaries and front-page posts before starting to compose your own diary. This rule operates on a sliding scale. A repeat diary with minimal analysis or originality (particularly on "breaking news" items) is prohibited. Such diaries are subject to deletion without notice. But if you write on a recently-covered subject and provide original analysis or research, that is acceptable and in fact welcome.

  10. If you receive a reasonable request from a fellow Kossack to delete your diary (i.e., your diary is duplicative as per above), please do so.

  11. Cross-posting from your own blog is welcome. Remember, though, that you can only write one diary a day at Daily Kos.

  12. Diarists are strongly encouraged to back up all assertions with facts (and preferably links to supporting materials) whenever possible. Use reputable sources whenever possible. If you can't find a reputable source that supports your position, then perhaps reconsider writing your diary.

  13. As a corollary, diarists should always make it clear when they are expressing an opinion - please do not assert opinions as facts, as this tends to be needlessly inflammatory.

  14. Diaries which engage in wild speculation without any proof are strongly discouraged. Repeatedly posting diaries consisting largely or entirely of wild speculation is an abuse of site policy. Bear in mind that that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

  15. Diaries which contain hateful or defamatory writing are prohibited.

  16. Diaries which are deliberately designed to inflame are prohibited.

  17. Deliberately inflammatory titles, or titles which contain attacks, are prohibited. Also, while this site doesn't prohibit profanity, please think very carefully before using any curse words in a diary title.

  18. "Calling out" other site users by name in diary titles is prohibited. Diaries which "call out" another by name tend to needlessly inflame. If you feel compelled to address another user's comments or diaries in a diary of your own, please do so cautiously. Avoid ad hominems and stick with substantive, constructive criticism only.

  19. Some topics which tend to make for poor diaries: Breaking news. Something you just saw on a TV show. Something currently on the front page of a major news site (eg, New York Times). Something currently on the front page of a major blog (eg, Atrios).

  20. What makes for a good diary: Anything which showcases original research or original analysis. Political calls to action with substantive information on how to get involved. News (plus analysis) on interesting/relevant topics that are not widely discussed.

  21. Diaries on contested Democratic primaries: Be positive. Make an affirmative case for your favored candidate. If you do criticize a Democratic candidate, don't make ad hominem attacks - stick to substantive criticisms, and back them up with hard evidence. Be very cautious if you go after a fellow Democrat. Odds are, that candidate will have supporters on this site. Reasonable people will accept reasonable criticism - unfair criticism will only needlessly inflame. And remember, deliberately inflammatory diaries are prohibited.

  22. "Open Thread" diaries: Diaries designed to serve as "open threads" for discussion on major, breaking events (such as a speech or hearing) are permissible. Please provide links to information about the events (such as news articles or webcasts) in such diaries. Do not post duplicate diary open threads unless an earlier open thread exceeds 150 comments.

  23. When writing a diary on a political race, prefixing the title is always helpful. For example: FL-Gov (Florida governor's race), NY-Sen (New York senate race), CA-25 (California's 25th congressional district race).

  24. Do not use ALL CAPS or exclamation marks !!! in diary titles.

  25. Do not put "Please Recommend" or similar language in diary titles.

  26. Please read an entire diary before hitting "Recommend." Recommending based on just the first few paragraphs or the author's name is strongly discouraged.

Tags: meta, FAQ, Daily Kos (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 286 comments

  •  How's a person (4.00 / 3)

    get a little attention of their outstanding diaries around here?

    Everybody dies alone.

    by Armando on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:08:05 PM PDT

  •  All those "rules" (none / 0)

    It went from like 3 rules to 26 rules in a year.  Personally, I like them and hopefully they'll keep the diary police quiet--at least until they come up with more things that bother them.

    Outta here, I don't deal well with sites that condone racism.

    by fabooj on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:10:25 PM PDT

  •  Finally (none / 0)

    Maybe the "meta" will settle
    •  Nah. Meta is too much fun. (4.00 / 3)

      It's a neighborly day in this beautywood. Relentless!

      by ablington on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:15:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We should have a diary about whether (4.00 / 2)

      this will settle "meta" diary issues or not.
    •  the "meta" (none / 0)

      will never settle...
    •  Please, no more Meta diaries (4.00 / 2)

      And in Meta diaries, I'm including diaries about Ratings Abuse.  Every few days there is a new diary about how user X gave totally undeserved ratings to some comments.  Ratings abuse is bad, but meta diaries about ratings abuse are worse.
    •  What is "meta"? (4.00 / 2)

      I notice stuff about "meta-Jesus" and "meta-diaries", and even just plain ol' "meta".

      WTF is all this?

      Pardon my splattering jargon uncoolness. But I really want to know.

      I'm the plowman in the valley - with my face full of mud

      by labradog on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:38:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here's a good (none / 0)

        Wikipedia link.  See definition #1.

        Generally, this usage of the word refers to the analysis of a process -- in this case, dKos diaries about the process of writing, posting, and discussing dKos diaries.

        Hope that helped a little. Jargon changes rapidly these days, & it does get confusing sometimes.

      •  In short . . . (none / 0)

        "meta" means a description of itself rather than the real thing itself.

        "Meta-diaries" are diaries that talk about diaries.

        Meta-God only knows who or what "meta-Jesus" is. (Joke intended.)

        "We must love one another or die." - W. H. Auden

        by marathon on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 06:23:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I fear this whole meta thing (none / 0)

        Has metastasized.
      •  Metajesus is a paradox (none / 0)

        This is a bit shameless of me, but I'm going to cite an earlier comment of mine on this topic:


        [metajesus is a paradox...]  - a bit like 'tinfoil hat'  

        That latter term started out as pure derisive putdown, 'the tinfoil hat crowd thinks x' but then people started nervously noting that with the conclusions they were drawing from the news they might need a tinfoil hat -- or 'I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat but doesn't it seem like Bushco is...'

        So TFH becomes an ambiguous evocation of the frightening times we live in, when it's hard to know just how paranoid it makes sense to be.

        So, about now you are sitting there wondering WTF does that have to do with Metajesus??  Bear with me, the correspondance is only partial - -

        Hunter wrote a funny diary in which he, partly tongue-in-cheek (i.e., half-kidding but only half) condemned the tendency to write "Meta" diaries (I'm going to keep defining things, sorry for any who take offense, I just mean this to be useful to all:) 'meta-' means roughly 'about the thing as a category or its tendencies', so a metadiary is one which discuss the dkos community, diary standards, the collapse of diary standards, why we're so great, why we're so terrible, how the good old days are gone because now everyone does X, front page posters (e.g. Armando) and so on.  When you post one of these, you make Metajesus cry.  You don't make metajesus cry, do you?

        The ambiguity, and vague similarity to TFH (and Hunter please chime in if I'm wildly misrepresenting your intentions here, which is probably likely) is in the sillyness of the whole idea of Metajesus.  It's a cute way of asking people to think twice about navel-gazing diaries, without actually getting into a fight about it.  

        Personally, as you might be able to tell by now, I'm a 'meta' kind of guy.  I make Metajesus cry constantly, and what's more, I think he likes it that way.  A community this huge, complex and impassioned doesn't progress without critical self-examination.  

        So as my closing meta point, I will note that you will hear about ridiculous flame wars that have happened in the past here.  They were/are (sadly they will be back, that's part of online community life at this point) almost never only about what they appear to be.  They are also, perhaps primarily, about respect, or setting rules and standards, or who we really are as a community and how can we work together -- as well as whatever nitty gritty issues may have sparked them.  

        I guess having said that, I have to make one more point (and here's where metajesus really starts to cry in earnest, because that's precisely the danger of meta-issues, there's no freaking end to them):  TFH and Metajesus are both coinages, new words, from the blogging world.  (TFH evolved, as far as I know, across other blogs including Dean for America.)

        We are doing new things here in the blogosphere, so we are making fragments of a new language.

        And, coming back to the present, I'm just wondering,...
        how far
        can this
        meta
        thing
        go

        ?


        the injectapods look like nothing less than lobsters with bat wings. "I don't know, but I don't like it," says Agar, throwing a stick at the beastie

        by stevelu on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 12:58:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow! (none / 0)

          Thanks, stevelu, for really deliverin'!

          I've been here for about a year and a half, but, given the vagaries of what will catch whose eye, I never really read the meta- stuff.

          I'm almost embarrassed, it's like you practically wrote a diary just to answer my question. Thanks again!

          I'm the plowman in the valley - with my face full of mud

          by labradog on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 06:38:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  If you (none / 1)

    are good,you will get read.25,000 readers in an average hour is pretty darn good. Where you gonna get that?(legally).

    it tastes like burning...

    by eastvan on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:12:46 PM PDT

    •  Hey, (none / 0)

      I paid good money to an editor in Baghdad for that kind of readership!

      Or was it New York . . . ?

      As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. - Justice William O. Douglas

      by occams hatchet on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:20:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How to get 25,000 readers (none / 0)

      1. Spray paint sign.
      2. Video tape self immolation holding sign.
      3. Sell tape to FOXNews.

      The plural of anecdote is not data.

      by bobinson on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:24:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That 25,000 is the number for dKos... (none / 0)

      ...not any particular diary. Some diaries may get zero readers even if they have good content.

      I think the rules are well stated and constructive, but they do not address the problem with the fast scolling diary list. When Markos says:

      But here's the fact -- every person who has risen to a position of prominence in the diaries started with the exact same limitations and challenges.
      That is not really true. When many of the current stars achieved their status, there was much less traffic here. However, his next line is true:
      Everyone on the site has equality of opportunity.
      There is equality amongst all those who are competing for attention today (if you want to call it competition).

      The bottom line is, I would still like to see a method for preserving more of the good stuff. But I don't begrudge Markos for not implementing one because I can't think of one either. But I know there are people here who are smarter than me and I would still like to hear their ideas.

      • • Get Your John McCain - NOPE T-Shirts & Stickers

      by KingOneEye on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:34:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The (none / 0)

        numbers are only likely to get more competitive in the next few months. Lately I have noticed some good stuff,with good responses slide down quick. Nature of the beast.

        it tastes like burning...

        by eastvan on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:39:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No doubt. (4.00 / 2)

          There is one idea that I just remembered. Maybe there could be a Selected Diaries box. This would be moderated by Markos and the Front-Pagers when they see something the community would be interested in, but that is not quite appropriate to frontpage itself. They could function as editors to keep good material available for a while longer.

          • • Get Your John McCain - NOPE T-Shirts & Stickers

          by KingOneEye on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:49:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  up the limit (none / 0)

            I would personally like to be able to see a larger list of recent diaries on the homepage.  50 isn't enough for me.

            Bipartisanship: I'll hug your elephant if you kiss my ass

            by Uranus Hz on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:52:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I think (none / 0)

            it will take some sort creative solution or two.

            it tastes like burning...

            by eastvan on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:53:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No, No, No (none / 0)

            I have seen this idea of Kos and FPers acting as some kind of editorial board before.  I am thoroughly against it.  First of all, I have NO idea how you could get it to work.  Secondly, a "Selected Diaries" list will make the backstabbing and whining about not making the Recommended list even worse, because now there is the opportunity to not make both lists. Finally, this is not a magazine, it's a blog. I agree with Kos that it is equal opportunity as to diaries.  We don't need an editorial board.

            The new rules are fine with me. Some of the stars have gone on to their own blogs.  Also, I don't see just stars on the Recommended list.  Never have.  I usually see people I don't know.

            PLEASE - let the new rules be the last rules.  This site is popular because anyone can post a diary.  Of course, there are kinks, because we keep growing and growing.  But I would rather live with the greater traffic, and its consequences.  We have an editorial board - it is US.

            We do not rent rooms to Republicans.

            by Mary Julia on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 11:17:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  So... (4.00 / 20)

    my three-part one day series on "BREAKING:  ARMANDO FUCKING KILLED KENNEDY ON GRASSY KNOLL" is out?
  •  Eleventh Commandment for Democrats (4.00 / 9)

    I like the discussion of diaries about contested Dem primaries, and I want to suggest something a bit more specific:  Don't use Republican attack lines against your fellow Democrats.

    It is too much to expect Dems to follow Reagan's Eleventh Commandment for Republicans ("thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican"), but we can avoid reinforcing Republican messages while doing so.

    This, I think, is the main objection to Joe Lieberman -- he may have some pretty good voting positions, but his rhetoric reinforces Republican assaults against us.

    •  Well (none / 0)

      said. If we rip each other apart we do their work for them. They are gonna need help. Lets not give it to them.

      it tastes like burning...

      by eastvan on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:15:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  sure enough (none / 0)

      i hear "dems are spineless" enough from the repug noise machine as it is.

      I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

      by BiminiCat on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:26:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Attacks on the "dems" (none / 0)

        is a little over the top IMHO.  I can understand criticisms at individual Democrats but over-generalized criticism of them as a group?  Democrats have never been collective about anything and I'm not sure we want them to be.
    •  Republicans Don't Follow Their 11th Commandment (none / 0)

      Like so much else from the GOP, it was always b.s.

      When a Republican steps even a little out of line, they get sandbagged by party leaders (see McCain in 2000, e.g.).

      Actually, I think 11th Commandments are rotten ideas.  Otherwise one can never demand that one's party improve.

      This nicely summarizes what's wrong with American political life today. (Source)

      by GreenSooner on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:30:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Very well put! (none / 0)

      As well put as I've seen, in fact.  I've been trying to put my finger on what the difference is between vigorous attacks that I agree with and those I don't, and I think that does it.  "Don't contribute to GOP demonization of us."

      If somebody writes a book and doesn't care for [its] survival, he's an imbecile.

      ~ Umberto Eco

      by Major Danby on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:51:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Don't use Republican attack lines ... (none / 0)

      ...against your fellow Democrats,"  unless they are based on truth and facts.

      Then again, what are the chances of that?  Never mind.

      It does not take many words to tell the truth. - Chief Joseph - Nez Perce

      by Gabriele Droz on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:51:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I say bullshit to that (none / 0)

      Because the repubs will use those lines on the winner of the primary anyway, and if the candidate can't survive it from their own flesh and blood, they have no chance against the mongrels.

      You can't be on the team, if you're not in the choir. Sorry.

      by peeder on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:56:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It also helps prep us (4.00 / 2)

        I don't listen to the Wurlitzer a lot. I find out what our gang is being criticized for here usually and I get the information for a good response to rebut it as well.

        tragically un-hip
        ..- .... --..-- / --- -.- .-.-.-

        -5.88, -6.82

        by Debby on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 08:15:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I heartily (none / 0)

      agree. I don't have a problem with constructive criticism but these "spineless" attacks do nothing but help the GOP.

      I generally try to stay out of the fray on the "fighting" diaries.

      I'm too disgusted right now to think of a sig.

      by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:07:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Stereotypes (none / 0)

      The Republican attack lines are based on stereotypes of "Democrats". I'm sure you could come up with several examples quite easily. I think we should not be reinforcing stereotypes about anyone, Democrat, Republican, Green, Libertarian, or whatever. It only hurts us. Besides, it's not exactly as if we need to resort to stereotypes to take on the Republicans. They've gotten so extreme, all we need is the facts.
    •  I'm a bit wary of this (none / 0)

      There's a fine line between smart politics, and turning politics entirely into a team sport where we lose site of the fact that politics is only a means to an end, not an end in itself.  I agree that, assuming one supports the Democrats generally, one ought to be careful about repeating charges or general comments made by Republicans.  This doesn't mean that we should blindly assume every Democrat is right and every Republican is wrong, though.  There are occasions when a Republican says something about a Democrat that happens to be correct, which should be distinguished from the cases where it's a half-truth or entirely misleading.

      "See a world of tanks, ruled by a world of banks." —Sol Invictus

      by Delirium on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 10:01:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bravo! (4.00 / 2)

    A request: please tag pending legislation by bill #: S. 2110, H.R. 2020, etc.

    Good topics: Neglected in the last week's news.

    Consider referencing earlier diaries on-topic, even if only tangentially so.

    Be kind? Could we try?

    Other sugggestions?

    Thank you, kos, and happy new year.

    What's so hard about Peace, Love, and Truth and Progress?

    by melvin on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:13:56 PM PDT

    •  yeah really (none / 0)

      i hate it when people are like "omg there is this new horrible bill!" but they dont say what bill it is, and then I look and find out it some some bill introduced 4 years a go by someone who isn't in congress anymore.
      •  I've felt that headache (none / 0)

        It took me hours to find the actual text of the patriot act back when it came out.  Every search was turning up this review, that summary, that opionion.  And not ONE freaking author linked to the original text.

        Source links should be up near rule #1, with penalty of a severe clubbing with a rubber chicken to those who make wild claims without a source.  Mild wrist slappings for those with plausible claims.

  •  The need for (none / 0)

    rules comes with growth. A one horse town doesn't need a stop sign.

    it tastes like burning...

    by eastvan on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:14:06 PM PDT

  •  n/t (4.00 / 2)

    That's a pretty good explanation re: recent diaries.  I still think that slightly increasing the recommended list size would be beneficial though.
  •  Good rules. (none / 1)

    Most of these are no brainers but do need to be said, officially, somewhere.

    It's a neighborly day in this beautywood. Relentless!

    by ablington on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:14:32 PM PDT

  •  My first diary got 8 comments...my (none / 0)

    second got 10, and my third, only 9...I decided maybe it wasn't something I should worry about, and didn't post another diary  until I saw Gingrich winning the redstate.borg poll for 08 presidential candidates...that one got 87 comments...was it simply a matter of timing? or was I lucky enough the fourth time around to hit on a topic that interested more people?

    Knowing that 30 minutes or so on the recent diaries list gives me a potential 25,000 views is actually kind of significant...and flattering...it's nice to know there are that many like-minded people out there, so hello everyone!

    Oh, and I'm really friggin' happy to see Abramoff cop a plea...it's kept me from doing any work whatsoever today, and I've got some serious documents to get done in my last few days at this gig...oh well.

    Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:14:51 PM PDT

    •  One or both possibly (none / 0)

      I've had some diaries get exactly 0 comments, while my next to last diary was on the recommended list for like, 26 hours.  But it was also on a popular topic too.

      I think it just depends how many people are there at that time, and what other diaries are posted at the time.  A good diary that might usually get a lot of attention might be overshadowed by an even more popular diary thats up at the same time.

  •  Good list -- a couple of suggestions (4.00 / 5)

    First -- ask front pagers to also abide by the three paragraph limit for the intro. Long FP intros push open threads down into obscurity, tempting people  to post a diary instead of an open-thread comment. And, of course, they also push other FP diaries down more quickly.

    Second, the following is only part of the story: every person who has risen to a position of prominence in the diaries started with the exact same limitations and challenges. That's largely true of Congress too, but then incumbency takes over. I have suggested elsewhere that de-rating the rec-list score by some percentage for frontpage alumni might make sense.

    •  I second Elwoods first suggestion. (none / 0)

    •  Nope (none / 0)

      I hate jumps on the front page.

      As for incumbency -- the current crop of top diarists had to deal with the existing "incumbents" when they first started. Unless you were here when I first started the site, you had to work hard to stand out from the crowd.

      Looking at Jotter's list of top-ranked diarists I see lots of people who just started posting last year.

      •  It's your call.. (4.00 / 2)

        ...but let me plead the case, acknowledging that the jumps can be a pain:

        • That's the same tradeoff newspapers have: a few complete stories on page one, or a few more with jumps. They have decided on more with jumps.
        • A good diary (front page or not) pulls me in to the point where I want to read the comments as well. So, there is always a jump of some type on any diary that interests me.
        • You will presumably have some guidance develop over time on the proper length of front page articles above-the-fold. Even a no-jump purist would see a problem with a single posting monopolizing the entire front page. Making that the same as, or a multiple of, the guideline for "normal" diaries seems easiest to explain.
        • Despite your preference, you show restraint -- for example in this diary, which is roughly 2/3 below the fold.

        But again, it's your call.
        •  One more thought... (none / 0)

          ...A lot of my concern here is with open threads scrolling off, thereby prompting short diaries. They don't occupy much space above the fold. If the current open thread could be automatically bumped, or somehow be given a reserved space, that would address that concern regardless of the format of other front page material.
      •  I'm not a big fan of scrolling through all of the (none / 0)

        legal mumbo-jumbo on the front page.  Just sayin'.
      •  So (none / 0)

        I don't have to work hard "to stand out from the crowd?" LOL. I feel I'm part of the woodwork.

        I'm too disgusted right now to think of a sig.

        by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 05:09:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Measure in column inches (none / 1)

      I agree with your second point more than the first.

      I would measure like newspapers do: in column-inches. We have two different column sizes on this site (wide and narrow) but I would measure narrow, say...and what three paragraphs means is about 400 pixels or so in narrow.

      Some people write one-line paragraphs as a matter of style; others write 15 sentence paragraphs. A paragraph boundary should be based on segmenting argument rather than on brevity anyway.

      However, on your first point, the 25K readers per hour is mostly just the front page, and few click on anything beyond that. And so the most important stuff has to go "above the fold" and "before the jump" to be read broadly. And I don't criticize the front-pagers who usually make sound judgment as to what should go above the jump and the fold (they "bump" to get things above the fold). The commenters here that use Open Threads are a small minority of the readership...about 4%.

      As to your second point; I have suggested a monthly limit of recommended diaries (perhaps 4 or 5) as a companion to the daily limit of 1 as a means of avoiding the celebrity effect. I would not punish former front-pagers specifically, who truly are the cream of the crop in most cases, and have a term limit anyway.

      You can't be on the team, if you're not in the choir. Sorry.

      by peeder on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:30:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The ~4 per month idea... (none / 0)

        ...sounds like a better approach. My intention wasn't to punish, or complain about, the front-pagers: I am one of the people likely to recommend their diaries. But it might be seen that way, and your 'rule' is easier to understand.
        •  I disagree about limiting diaries further (none / 0)

          Often there are diarists that are experts in a subject that add a lot during a specific time period.  I would have hated to have DarkSyde limited to 4 diaries a month during the hurricane season for example.

          And a lot of the front page diarists started with a series or other information that came faster than a four diary a month limit will allow.

          I will give another example...TeacherKen posts frequently during school breaks and rarely when he is busy.  I make a point of reading most of his diaries, but know that the frequency will vary considerably depending on the situation.

          •  Not limiting diaries (4.00 / 2)

            But limiting the number of times a particular diarist can make the Recommended list. Darksyde and teacherken could continue to post every day.

            The best solution to making sure you can see each of a particular poster's diaries is to add the diarist to your watchlist.

      •  i have found (none / 0)

        that 3 sentences per paragraph is easily read in cyberspace.

        plus, there are very few points that need more than three sentences to make.

        skippy the bush kangaroo: aware of all internet traditions since 2002!

        by skippy on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 06:17:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  James Joyce would agree (none / 1)

          Traditionally, the longest sentence in English Literature has been said to be a sentence in Ullyses by James Joyce, which clocks in at 4,391 words. Past editions of The Guinness Book of World Records have listed this record.

          Wherefore do ye toil; is it not that ye may live and be happy? And if ye toil only that ye may toil more, when shall happiness find you?

          by keefer55 on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 07:01:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Kos Great preface (none / 0)

    Then you strarted turning into the MAN! This site is begining to get a little too full of itself.

    I say the freedoms your espouse and pine for in the preface of this post should thereafter be followed in the rules section. translation: relax a little on the guidelines. Good idea taken too far for my tastes.

    How about everybody just take a break and quit the Meta and Meta Meta bullshit before all we can say is
    Malkovich! Malkovich! Malkovich! Malkovich!

    When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross - Sinclair Lewis

    by Chilipalmer on Tue Jan 03, 2006 at 04:15:27 PM PDT

  •  So if we democracy stealing whores (none / 0)

    post diaries demanding facts on a subject.. that is ok?

    ;-)

  •  I (none / 1)

    I find it interesting, from a mostly-philosophical standpoint, how truly democratic the diaries are.  The rest of the site is a dictatorship ruled by Kos, of course (not that that's inherently good or bad; just pointing out that he is, in the end, the creator and owner of this site), but he's a benevolent ruler...

    My point is, diaries allow a Market of Ideas and authors will sink or swim based on their own merit.

    It's the same thing that occurs in any free society...  And I think we should market the concept to counter anti-homosexual and anti-immigration fearmongering.

    •  Just to clarify this ... (none / 0)

      The rest of the site is a dictatorship ruled by Kos...

      Kos puts no restrictions on what the front-page guest bloggers write, nor does he "preview" articles, nor does he give us any directions or orders on what to write about.

      So even the front page is something of a willy nilly democracy still, since he has no interest in either censoring, directing or previewing any material by anyone that goes up there.

      •  This site (thanks kos) is the Second most (none / 1)

        democratic entity I have ever participated in. Between lurking and joining I've been here about six months. The self-policing is amusing, fun, and creatively done. The pie-fights and meta angst feel like creative participation and a family making kind of deal.

        The other day I read somewhere that this is a FAR left wing blog. I thought about this and my internal translator spat out. Aha! This is where the REALLY smart people hang! And that is what makes this a great site. Smart people beating each other up to get to the truth, we all love and respect each other, but if you get in the way, you're gonna have to wait till the dust dies down. Someone will come by later and make sure your ok etc. Truth and Justice take precedence over feeling.

        I don't contribute much but I sure appreciate having you all here. In my lexicon you guys are Bad Ass Warriors and I am proud to be associated with you.

  •  Perhaps one thing you forgot.... (4.00 / 9)

    Keep writing. Even if a diary doesn't get tons of comments, or ever make it to any recommended list, just keep writing. I tend to read everything, comment 50 percent of the time and recommend little. Bet t