Daily Kos

Sharon Likely Brain Dead -- Live Blogging

by ccnwon

Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:22:51 PM PDT

Sharon Suffers a Cerebral Hemorrhage

By MARK LAVIE, Associated Press Writer 5 minutes ago

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon suffered a cerebral hemorrhage Wednesday and was receiving breathing assistance while under general anesthetic, a hospital official said. Power was transferred to his deputy.

Sharon, 77, suffered a "significant" stroke and was brought to Jerusalem's Hadassah Hospital from his ranch in the Negev desert, an official said. Channel 2 TV said Sharon was suffering from paralysis in his lower body and was taken into the hospital on a stretcher.

Dr. Shlomo Mor-Yosef, the hospital's director general, said Sharon was under general anesthetic and was receiving breathing assistance while doctors assessed his condition.

A few minutes later, Mor-Yosef emerged to say that initial tests showed Sharon had suffered a cerebral hemorrhage, or bleeding in his brain.

Addressing reporters in English, Mor-Yosef said Sharon had "massive bleeding and was being transferred to an operating theater." ... more

Massive bleeding in the brain is highly indicative of brain death. What are the implications?

Tags: Ariel Sharon, Israel, dead, stroke (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 101 comments

  •  Isn't this being discussed already? n/t (none / 1)

    Today's Special: Chickenhawk, slow-baked in its mother's basement.

    by Earl on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:19:28 PM PDT

    •  As in (none / 0)

      from Kos's diary y'day:


      Some topics which tend to make for poor diaries: Breaking news. Something you just saw on a TV show. Something currently on the front page of a major news site (eg, New York Times). Something currently on the front page of a major blog (eg, Atrios).

      And here's the diary from the front page a 1/2 hour ago.

      Today's Special: Chickenhawk, slow-baked in its mother's basement.

      by Earl on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:23:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Kos needs to address some logistics (none / 0)

        Open and Live threads disappear too quickly for their purpose. I say leave this diary for now and link to the earlier, more active thread:

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        WaPo Prints My Letter!!!

        by Kudos on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:30:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Must mindlessly repeat kos observations ... must (3.00 / 2)

        Gee, whaddaya know, the last breaking story I posted at DK got 370 comments. I must be stupid or something.

        I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.

        by ccnwon on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:37:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do you cop to aything? (none / 0)

          There's a diary on this 15 diaries before yours. And I was trying to be gentle. Ungently I could have said "Diaries with BREAKING in the title make the writers look silly." They bring to mind someone who wears a visor and a vest and chews on a pencil to look more journalistic.

          Today's Special: Chickenhawk, slow-baked in its mother's basement.

          by Earl on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:00:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And Earl leads the peanut gallery to pc city (none / 0)


            My front page shows 30 recent diairies at a time. That diary was not on the front page.[I have noticed on many past occassion thet diaries do seem to float from on spot to reappear later at another, on the lists.]

            I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.

            by ccnwon on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:06:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  well I disagree, I think (none / 1)

        ..breaking news like this should be posted...as much as Kos has a right to make his own rules, it is a mistake for this reason;

        ....a lot of addicts to Kos spend more time here than they do searching out their own news every day...therefore they are likely to miss news unless they are also addicted to cable TV or watching their email for whatever news alerts they have entered...and since the number of readers and hits it was has gotten Kos the attention it has, it would be a shame to lose it by outlawing breaking news items and seeing a lot of readers and posters spending less time here and more searching out news....at least to Kos...might be good for the readers themselves to spend more time pursuing the news at large.

        I noticed there was no such calls against the breaking news item last night about the dead miners..

        Hypocrisy in anything may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it....

        by Cal45 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:47:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here's what I do: (none / 0)

          If I see breaking news that we might be interested in, I post a brief fragment first and then provide details and thoughts later in an update.

          Conservatism is Dead!

          by Eternal Hope on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:00:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I see nothing wrong with that either... (none / 1)

            ..in fact I don't fault people for posting on a subject that may have already been posted because they didn't see any prior post on it...as someone who doesn't nromally spend a lot of time here at one sitting...I often miss something that has been scrolled off and am only made aware of it by someone's comment on another post...

            For me I would rather see a lot more breaking news or just plain news diaries than personal opinion diaries...personal opinions can be incorporated into whatever subject the news diary is on...too many things escape the radar by more of us not digging out important but not necessarily mainstreamed news stories.

            Hypocrisy in anything may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it....

            by Cal45 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:09:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree and the original diarist okayed ... (none / 1)

              ... this updated repeat. Our diaries are now linked so incoming readers can catch the entire connected threads.

              I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.

              by ccnwon on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:20:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  A Look at What Could Be Next for Israel (none / 0)

      AP story suggests Sharon is - dead.

      A Look at What Could Be Next for Israel By The Associated Press
       40 minutes ago

      A look at issues raised by strokes suffered by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

      _

      PRECEDENT: Sharon, 77, is the oldest serving prime minister. But his strokes are not the first health scare to hit the office. In 1969, Prime Minister Levy Eshkol died in office and his deputy, Yigal Allon, served as caretaker leader until the Labor Party chose Golda Meir as successor. When Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated in 1995, Shimon Peres assumed power until general elections. Menachem Begin experienced numerous health problems, including heart attacks, depression and a stroke, while in office in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Aides sometimes hid his afflictions, and no caretaker leader was named.

      _

      SUCCESSION: If an Israeli prime minister becomes incapacitated, the deputy premier assumes the post for 100 days. Then, Israel's ceremonial president meets with political leaders and chooses someone to form a coalition government.

      _

      ELECTIONS: Sharon's strokes do not necessarily affect plans to hold Israeli elections March 28. But concerns about his health could affect Kadima, the centrist party he founded. The party, which advocates peace talks with the Palestinians, revolves around Sharon's leadership.

      _

      POSSIBLE SUCCESSORS: Kadima includes a mix of politicians who have left the hard-line Likud Party and dovish Labor Party. If Sharon cannot run, potential replacements include Justice Minister Tzipi Livni, former premier Shimon Peres and Finance Minister and Deputy Premier Ehud Olmert.

      I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.

      by ccnwon on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:33:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Channel 10 in Israel ... (none / 0)

      ... is reporting Sharon's aides are praying for a miracle.

      I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.

      by ccnwon on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:53:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sky News reports (none / 0)

      Sharon's senior aide says Sharon may not recover.

      I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.

      by ccnwon on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:57:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Title Change. (4.00 / 2)

    Sharon Likely Brain Dead

    That is not in any way proven by anything we know so far and should not be included.  It's PURE speculation.

    I got rambling all on my mind.

    by Zergle on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:22:16 PM PDT

  •  Okay lets not pull A Doctor Frist (4.00 / 4)

    Lets wait and see what happens.

    www.DowningStreetMemo.com

    by Mikecan1978 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:26:27 PM PDT

  •  Hes sick (none / 0)

    but people have strokes, this does not necessarily mean he is brain dead.
    The implications are bad for the new party called Kadima, which Sharon founded. If sharon cannot run, it will be interesting to see if Olmert runs with Kadima or Likud.

    by weathercoins on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:27:35 PM PDT

  •  I wouldn't say that just yet (none / 0)

    remember the premature "alive" news in WV?

    by TLS66 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:30:31 PM PDT

  •  Just like in Real Estate.... (4.00 / 3)

    ...the mantra in neurology is: location, location, location. (or as the doctor's joke about a neuroligist goes. "what's the lesion, what's the localization, what's for lunch?")

    All depends exactly where the cerebral hemorrhage occurred and how big it is.  If it's really large, obviously that can kill a lot of neurons and significantly incapacitate one's executive functions to some degree or another, (meaning he could be anywhere between a persistent vegitative state to quadriplegia to severe, specific neurological deficits (inability to speak or form sentences (aphasia), problems with vision, perception, etc.) to symptoms of a massive stroke).  Even if he's not brain dead, he will in all liklihood be severely incapaciatated for some time, if not permanently so.  It's not good news.

    Another consideration is how quickly the doctors picked this up and if the hemorrahge was really big, how quickly they got his intracerebral pressure (literally, the pressure inside your skull) under control.  Even if the hemorrhage only results in milder brain damage, the acute process of bleeding followed by an influx of inflammation to clean up the mess can kill because there's only so much room in one's skull.  

    If fluid (i.e. blood, CSF) begins to accumulate in the skull, it will slowly force the brain down towards the formaen magnum (the big hole in the base of the skull where the brainstem is).  This will result in somthing called uncal herniation in which the lowest portion of the cerebrum (the uncus of the temporal lobe) actually protrudes ("herniates" in med speak) over the dura mater that lines the cerebellum (it's kind of hard to explain) and begins to compress the brainstem to one side.  

    All of our vital processes such as heart rate and respiratory rate are controlled by nerve centers in the medulla of the brainstem, so if this is compressed and damaged, this can rapidly result in death if the pressure is not relieved and the patient isn't put on a vent.

    There are other types of herniation as well (the lowest part of the cerebellum, the tonsils, can also compress the brainstem below too), and all of them can be rapidly fatal if not treated.

    So while I agree, "likely brain dead" probably isn't appropriate at this stage, it's not looking too good for Mr. Sharon.

    People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

    by viget on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 02:52:42 PM PDT

    •  So, (none / 0)

      neurologists can't count either?

      this message is intended to inform. any annoyance, abuse, threat, or harassment is solely in the perception of the reader, not the intention of the poster.

      by horsewithnoname on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:11:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ischemic attacks (none / 0)

      present quickly the totality of the disrupted brain functions, and treatment goal is to reverse the disruption before it becomes permanent.

      Hemorrhagic attacks progress at a slower rate and are not self limited to any specific area of the brain, so more function is disrupted as time passes.  Treatment goal is to prevent further damage, but affected areas are either permanently damaged, or at best distrupted until residual fluids diffuse (like a bruise).

      WaPo Prints My Letter!!!

      by Kudos on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:17:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Recommended (none / 0)

    I recommended this diary since it seems like an appropriate one for an "open thread" discussion.  If you feel likewise, please recommend.

    Netroots Nation: Changing the face of progressive politics.

    by pontificator on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:05:52 PM PDT

  •  Sharon is 77 yr old, 5'7", and weighs ~300 lb (none / 0)

    So does he expect?

    by shumard on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:14:37 PM PDT

  •  Rec (none / 0)

    this is a big story with huge ramifications for the mid-east. recommend

    by pronin2 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:17:34 PM PDT

  •  Doesn't bode well (4.00 / 2)

    This doesn't bode well for further progress on peace.  You may not love or even like Sharon, but he did push through the Gaza withdrawal, and that was a step in the right direction whatever his motives.

    Speaking of Gaza, the utter chaos there doesn't bode well either:

    Hundreds of angry Palestinians streamed into Egypt on Wednesday after militants with stolen bulldozers broke through a border wall, and two Egyptian troops were killed and 30 were wounded by gunfire in the rampage.

    About 3,000 Egyptian Interior Ministry troops who initially had no orders to fire swarmed the border but were forced to withdraw about a half-mile, said security forces Lt. Sameh el-Antablyan, who announced the casualties.

    Gen. Essam el-Sheikh said Egyptian forces later began firing back.

    The scene was one of utter chaos. An Egyptian armored vehicle was burning and hundreds of Palestinians could be seen crouched in farm fields just inside Egypt.

    The militants' rampage through the southern Gaza town of Rafah underscored the growing lawlessness in Palestinian towns, especially in Gaza, and represented the most brazen challenge to the authority of Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas.

    -snip-

    Abbas, who has condemned the chaos, has been unable to impose order, and his failure to keep the gunmen in check is expected to harm
    Fatah's prospects in Jan. 25 parliament elections.

    The rampage began late Tuesday, after Palestinian intelligence arrested Alaa al-Hams, an Al Aqsa militant, on suspicion he and his followers kidnapped human rights activist Kate Burton and her parents for two days last week. The Burtons were among 19 foreigners abducted by Fatah gunmen in Gaza in recent months. All have been freed unharmed.

    Al-Hams' followers fired at the Palestinian security headquarters in Rafah, where he was held, briefly took over four government buildings, and then drove to the Rafah crossing, which was reopened last month after intense negotiations directed by Secretary of State
    Condoleezza Rice.

    -snip-

    The Rafah crossing was handed to Palestinian control, under European supervision, as part of a U.S.-brokered deal with Israel last month. Since then, the crossing was forced to shut down several times during attacks by gunmen.

    And in what is perhaps the dumbest move ever:

    Elsewhere, Palestinian gunmen burst into a Rafah house early Wednesday and tried to kidnap the parents of Rachel Corrie, who was killed in 2003 as she protested the impending demolition of a house in the southern Gaza town, according to a witness.

    The five gunmen appeared to be affiliated with the Fatah movement, according to Samir Nasrallah, the Corries' host. The gunmen eventually relented after being told who their targets were, he said.

    In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

    by Paul in Berkeley on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:19:07 PM PDT

    •  Gaza's descending into anarchy. (none / 1)

      Cats, err, Pooties! for Obama

      by PhillyGal on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:26:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup (none / 1)

        Egypt and Jordan have to be looking on in horror. I can't imagine either wants to have a border with a state that will quickly descend into a Somalia-like anarchy.

        In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

        by Paul in Berkeley on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:30:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What's it been -- all of 3+ months? (none / 0)

          I've been following this, and it seems to me, w/o their binding and blinding hatred of Israel, they've turned on each other! tsk-tsk

          Cats, err, Pooties! for Obama

          by PhillyGal on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:43:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes (none / 1)

            So perhaps we're being premature. Still, if Abbas can't govern Gaza, how is he going to sell himself as someone who can negotiate on behalf of the Palestinians and deliver on any commitments made in a peace agreement?  And it's pathetic the way they still try to blame everything that happens in Gaza on the Israelis, when what's going on now is very clearly internal power struggles.

            Israel might be better off if Hamas becomes the de jure leader of the Palestinians.  Hamas will have to recognize Israel's right to exist, just as the PLO did, but that's nothing new. Indeed, I think one of the Israeli cabinet ministers said today that Israel could deal with Hamas if it recognizes Israel's right to exist and disarms.

            In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

            by Paul in Berkeley on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:48:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's a massively big 'If'! ;) (none / 1)

              We'll see; in the meantime, I'll say a prayer for Sharon -- the repurcussions are sinking in.

              Cats, err, Pooties! for Obama

              by PhillyGal on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:56:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Paul, I may have an answer to the (none / 0)

              ..question of how Abbas intends to sell himself and Palestine..at least in DC...

              Check out the new guy in town..straight from the Vatican and London:

              http://www.forward.com/...

              He has heft of course but he also sounds very politically astute and the more astute the faster he can push this congress for concrete action to defuse the Gaza problem and institute reforms to get things in Palestine up and running.

              Then again he could be a dud, we'll see.

              Hypocrisy in anything may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it....

              by Cal45 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 08:26:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  I just read the Hebrew news on the Ha'aretz site (none / 1)

    Quick translation: "High-ranking doctor says that in a case like this, the chances for a return to full function are very low".

    There are no further statements which would support any of the speculation listed earlier in this thread.

    Time stamp given is 01:15 Israel time, 6:15PM EST US.

    A true patriot is one who will defend his country against its government.

    by ducque on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:19:29 PM PDT

  •  Well, let's just hope and pray (4.00 / 2)

    that Pat Robertson's Sea of Galilee Christian Theme Park can withstand this tragedy (my sources tell me that negotiations currently are at a most delicate stage . . )

    by Roadbed Guy on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:34:21 PM PDT

    •  Pat's Park (none / 0)

      Will they have carnie games like knocking Chavez off ... his perch and into the water?

      I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.

      by ccnwon on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:42:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Speculation (4.00 / 2)

    This is an extremely significant development in the peace process, one that could completely change the course of current developments.

    Having established the centrist Kadima party, Sharon had enough support to lead the largest bloc of a majority coalition that would include his party, Labor, and perhaps some smaller factions. This government, with Sharon at its head would have had the political wherewithal to press on with significant concessions which are necessary to the success of the peace process. No other government since Yitzhak Rabin's was in this sort of position. Coming from the right, but with significant support from the left, Sharon was uniquely positioned to make peace.

    Without Sharon, the fate of Kadima, the centrist government, and the possibility of success of the peace process is in doubt. There is no other leader with the credibility to make concessions on a par with Sharon - the standard example of Nixon in China serves well here. Sharon is the only one that people from the middle rightward trust with security. No one on the left has the same authority, and no one the right has the desire. What happens next is anybody's guess, but this is bad news for both the Israelis and the Palestinians in my eyes.

    by nussbaumski on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:35:10 PM PDT

    •  What's remarkable about Sharon... (none / 0)

      ... is also that pretty much everyone knows he is a bit of a crook, but seem to not mind it so much because of the more difficult issues at hand...

      Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say... (from "Creatures of Light and Darkness", R. Zelazny)

      by SadEagle on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:44:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup (4.00 / 3)

        Sharon's no angel, far from it. Beyond being a crook, he was also dismissed from his post as Defense Minister on the recommendation of the Israeli Supreme Court, following his indirect responsibility for the massacre of Palestinians in Sabra and Shattila by Lebanese militiamen in 1982. There's not much dispute that Sharon is not a terrific guy by almost any measure.

        When he was elected, I was not please to say the least. I don't like him, I don't support what he stands for. At the same time, especially in light of recent developments with the Gaza withdrawal and the establishment of the Kadima party, there was real reason for hope that, not only had Sharon turned a corner, but that he was in a position to effect very real and positive change in a stagnant peace process. So while I stil don't like him, and don't support his past actions, I am very much rooting for him today. He is in a unique position to move things forward in the peace process, and I really hope that opportunity is not lost now.

        The worst thing that could happen now, in my eyes, is for Likud to benefit from this and for Netnayahu to get back in charge. But even if that doesn't happen, and some coalition of Kadima and Labor take control, the promise of peace is not nearly as strong as with Sharon at the helm. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I see things - in a region where there are very few saints, this man was prepared to move forward with the sacrifices necessary for peace and had the support to do it. Whether anyone else can fill those shoes in the near future is not at all clear.

        by nussbaumski on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:54:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  this is bad,bad,bad,,, (none / 1)

    ..and could not have come at a worse time...unless Sharon's passing from the scene (politically at least)..
    does get a real centralist party invigorated and back on the road map or whatever they call the peace process these days...

    I haven't had time to keep up with the internals in Isr/Pal politics lately, maybe someone can keep us filled in on the likley top dogs should Sharon pass..

    Meanwhile there are changes going on everywhere..a new guy is in town in DC..... " Afif Safieh -- one of the sharpest and most eloquent Palestinian representatives in the world -- to head the Palestine Liberation Organization's diplomatic mission in Washington" (according to the Forward)

    Evidently this guy has serious heft and political creds so old DC influence centers may be getting a bit of a shakeup or run for the money in influence..... googling the guy he seems to  very politically "practical" and astute.

    Hypocrisy in anything may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it....

    by Cal45 on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:48:33 PM PDT

  •  Sharon will no longer be Prime Minister (none / 0)

    Let's face it - a 77 year old man with a sunt from the right to the left side (either a PFO (patent foramen ovale) or an ASD (atrial septal defect) isd anticoagulated prior to planned cardiac surgery to close the hole in his heart. The anticoagulation is too successful and he bleeds into his head having a hemorrhagic stroke resulting in paralysis of his lower extremities such as he is on a ventilator. A bleed into the spinal cord might do this but more likely is a bleed into the brainstem. Currently he is undergoing surgery to remove the clot which suggests that he is undergoing brain surgery. But he still has the hole in his heart which has not yet been fixed, nor is he likely to be able to undergo this. Post operatively he will be unable to be anticoagulated which may set him up for a recurrent venous clot embolizing through the hole in his heart.
    Bad situation.
    If he survives this, he will not return to his job. He may end up like Terry Schiavo. Perhaps we can send a videotape to Dr Frist to make a diagnosis.
    Sharon belongs to history.

    phillysuse

    by suse on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 04:52:28 PM PDT

    •  ventilator may be to induced coma (none / 0)

      Drug induced comas commonly use pentobarbital http://vetmed.duhs.duke.edu/... a CNS suppressant which can affect respiratory function among other things.  In fact the only time we ever did pentobarbital levels in the lab was for induced comas which were usually done to attempt to treat brain swelling due to head trauma.  Brain surgery was always involved as well.  

      Induced comas are usually a sign of serious to lifethreatening brain damage.  The coma is kept up for only a few days if that long.

      Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

      by Fabian on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 05:52:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Permalink | 101 comments